Home » The Watercooler for 11/06/09 9:00 AM
The Watercooler for 11/06/09 9:00 AM
DFA's home for a free form, open-ended discussion of what matters most to committed progressive activists.
Watercooler resets everyday at 1am, 9am and 5pm. Past threads can be found in the Watercooler Archive
Ireland (Eire) play France for the WC? Should be a good match....................
From an AP article:
He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001.
While an intern at Walter Reed, Hasan had some "difficulties" that required counseling and extra supervision, said Dr. Thomas Grieger, who was the training director at the time.
Grieger said privacy laws prevented him from going into details but noted that the problems had to do with Hasan's interactions with patients. He recalled Hasan as a "mostly very quiet" person who never spoke ill of the military or his country.
Noel Hasan said her nephew "did not make many friends" and would say "they military was his life."
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Kind of a troubled man most of his life...no friends, no life partner. More to it than he simply became sympathetic to the "other side" which is how the military will see it.
I believe that the young American soldier that rolled a grenade into the tents of his sleeping fellow soldiers was sentenced to death, ultimately.
With 12 dead so far and 30 wounded I don't see military justice being lenient with this.
_______________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the reminder, Joan. My critters are good on this issue.
Have a great weekend, all.
you are not sure (or very sure) whether he/she will vote for the Health Bill tomorrow.
My Congresswoman is Corinne Brown--I always know how she has and will vote so no need to bother this good woman.
Hello rdorgan!
Thanks for the links and info. Hasan surely was/is a troubled man as written. Very sad event from all views.
Letter from Gaza
Captives
What really happened during the Israeli attacks?
by Lawrence Wright
A very disturbing article in this week's New Yorker, Nov. 9, can be read online at the New Yorker.com..
As you would expect botth sides have committed atrocities, but what is most worrisome is the depths of hatred and revenge on both sides.
which means we deal with people having issues that can't be solved alone. These are not the only lives we need so we get releases from getting too immersed in those we try to help.
With the tremendous psychological loads our military folks are going thru, I expect the war-fighters to snap. But the listeners need a break too. Everyone gets burned out without a break. Some are more susceptible to cracking then others.
Fraggers in VN were dealt with erratically. Some were killed fast; some were sentenced to life imprisonment; some to the death penalty. Some were not punished at all as there was no proof they rolled the grenade into the tent; or the weapon may have gone off accidentally.
If interested, you can click on Lawrence Wright, and the article he has written is beneath his bio.
Some impressions from the article: Israel has en-coffined the million people of Gaza by destroying infrastructure: homes, hospitals, schools, mosques, industries. There are few necessities: land for growing food, sewage system, water, stores, electricity, and the allowed imports are a third of what's needed.
The Isarelis destroyed the structures that could foster peace.
The Palestinians are indoctrinating the young boys in hatred of Israel. They allowed civilians to be targeted. And, the only ingress and egress for food, supplies, and weapons are the tunnels to Egypt.
Hamas will not renounce its hatred or intent to drive Israel to extinction. Israel seems to be of the same mindset.
Of the two, Isarael is the more paranoid, though with the incarceration of the Gaza Strip, Pallestine is approaching the same intensity.
The U.S. and Britain offered aid after the war. The Arab world did nothing.
The rockets being smuggled into Gaza are more powerful and reach farther into Israel than the previous ones.
This is an example of the futility of hatred, blame, and war. Maybe the only solution is to bring in U.N. Peace Keepers and institute laws that both sides must adhere to: a kind of enforced peace out of the hands of both entities. It is increasingly dangerous and could enflame the entire region.
Special Ed teachers who deal with mentally ill children are said to burn out after three years on the average. How much worse a counselor who was one person serving 700 solders? If we want a healthy society, a peaceful society, we've got to pay attention to the consequences of conflict, violence, and hatred.
I sometimes wonder if "winning WWII" didn't blind us into thinking enough force would secure peace, and that in future conflicts, that's all we needed. I recall reading that the Hell's Angels were men who had fought in WWII, and their aggreession, memories, and disaffection were part of that organization.
Israel seems to be enacting the same kinds of punishment that they endured druing the Holocaust, no not the torture, but the idea that you can control and punish a whole population. We've got to find a way out of this kind of mentality of blame, revenge, force, and weapons.
"We've got to find a way out of this kind of mentality of blame, revenge, force, and weapons."
+++
Hi Pat, maryvb, LWC, cChalfonte, Mike, Joan, dog soldier -
I Googled on the word "Palestinian" this morning and the above three articles came up in the search engine.
Then I thought about posting here on this blog, because it seems like this is the place where the two sides of the Palestinian-Israeli perspectives can be seen and discussed, without demagouging the other side.
But Pat's words ring so true and remind me of the song by the Animals :
"we got to get out of this place, if it's the last thing we ever do"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlUa3npEVwY
Indeed, South Africa got 'out of this [stuck] place' and the two sides resolved in the early 1990's.
Then Northern Ireland reconciled sides in the late 1990's/early 2000's following S. Africa's example.
It's the late 2000's, it's time for Israel and Palestine to sit down at the table -- the same table.
are responsible, and my superficial proofreading shares the blame. Off now.
When Tim Russert mocked Bill Clinton -- in song
After a week of traveling, I finally finished "The Clinton Tapes," Taylor Branch's book of interviews with Bill Clinton. So better late than never, I hope, I'm going to wrap up my experiment with the blog-review. Tell me if it worked in comments, below.
and it's much easier.
Joan Walsh, who I often disagree with and who seems to be herself one of those to jump on the bandwagon of whatever the mainstream is declaring lately, summed up a lot of the damage done by the so-called liberal media here:
Their trashy eight-year oeuvre will likely go down in history as the most spectacularly malevolent and misguided White House coverage ever -- and politically costly, since it also encompassed Vice President Al Gore and probably made George W. Bush president in 2000.
In other words the media had managed to control the election of 2000 and in doing so, it seems to me, have been continuing to do so ever since. They wallow in their dirty successes.
This from Edgar Lee Masters Spoon River Anthology
<!-- @page { size: 8.5in 11in; margin: 0.79in } TD P { margin-bottom: 0in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } -->
Dippold the Optician from Edgar Lee Masters Spoon River Anthology
- <dd>
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WHAT do you see now?
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Globes of red, yellow, purple.
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Just a moment! And now?
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My father and mother and sisters.
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Yes! And now?
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Knights at arms, beautiful women, kind faces.
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Try this.
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A field of grain—a city.
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| cont. | |
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space, but here's the rest of it.
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Very good! And now?
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A young woman with angels bending over her.
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A heavier lens! And now?
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Many women with bright eyes and open lips.
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Try this.
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Just a goblet on a table.
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Oh I see! Try this lens!
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Just an open space—I see nothing in particular.
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Well, now!
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Pine trees, a lake, a summer sky.
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That’s better. And now?
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A book.
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Read a page for me.
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I can’t. My eyes are carried beyond the page.
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Try this lens.
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Depths of air.
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Excellent! And now?
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Light, just light, making everything below it a toy world.
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Very well, we’ll make the glasses accordingly. |
What do you see now?
Globes of red, yellow, purple.
Just a moment! And now?
My father and mother and sisters.
Yes! And now?
Knights at arms, beautiful women, kind faces.
Try this.
A field of grain—a city.
Very good! And now?
A young woman with angels bending over her.
A heavier lens! And now?
Many women with bright eyes and open lips.
Try this.
Just a goblet on a table.
Oh I see! Try this lens!
Just an open space—I see nothing in particular.
Well, now!
Pine trees, a lake, a summer sky.
That’s better. And now?
A book.
Read a page for me.
I can’t. My eyes are carried beyond the page.
Try this lens.
Depths of air.
Excellent! And now?
Light, just light, making everything below it a toy world.
Very well, we’ll make the glasses accordingly.
Good Morning, Dog Soldier.
By Pat in Colorado on Nov 6, 2009 12:53 PM EST
....We've got to find a way out of this kind of mentality of blame, revenge, force, and weapons.
---------------------------
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/tx14_paul/WhatIf.shtml
Statement of Congressman Ron Paul
United States House of Representatives
What If?
February 12, 2009
What if we wake up one day and realize that the terrorist threat is a predictable consequence of our meddling in the affairs of others?
What if propping up repressive regimes in the Middle East endangers both the United States and Israel?
What if occupying countries like Iraq and Afghanistan – and bombing Pakistan – is directly related to the hatred directed toward us and has nothing to do with being free and prosperous?
What if someday it dawns on us that losing over 5,000 American military personnel in the Middle East since 9/11 is not a fair trade-off for the loss of nearly 3,000 American citizens, no matter how many Iraqi, Pakistani, and Afghan people are killed or displaced?
What if we finally decide that torture, even if called “enhanced interrogation techniques,” is self-destructive and produces no useful information – and that contracting it out to a third world nation is just as evil?
What if it is finally realized that war and military spending is always destructive to the economy?
What if all wartime spending is paid for through the deceitful and evil process of inflating and borrowing?
What if we finally see that wartime conditions always undermine personal liberty?
What if conservatives, who preach small government, wake up and realize that our interventionist foreign policy provides the greatest incentive to expand the government?
What if conservatives understood once again that their only logical position is to reject military intervention and managing an empire throughout the world?
What if the American people woke up and understood that the official reasons for going to war are almost always based on lies and promoted by war propaganda in order to serve special interests?
What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest for empire eventually destroys all great nations?
What if Obama has no intention of leaving Iraq?
What if a military draft is being planned for the wars that will spread if our foreign policy is not changed?
What if the American people learn the truth: that our foreign policy has nothing to do with national security and that it never changes from one administration to the next?
What if war and preparation for war is a racket serving the special interests?
What if President Obama is completely wrong about Afghanistan and it turns out worse than Iraq and Vietnam put together?
What if Christianity actually teaches peace and not preventive wars of aggression?
What if diplomacy is found to be superior to bombs and bribes in protecting America?
What happens if my concerns are completely unfounded – nothing!
What happens if my concerns are justified and ignored – nothing good!
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5A52HG20091106
At least 25 hurt in U.S. troop search in Afghanistan
Fri Nov 6, 2009 2:43pm EST
By Sharafuddin Sharafyar
HERAT, Afghanistan (Reuters) - More than 25 NATO and Afghan troops were wounded during a search Friday for two missing U.S. paratroopers in western Afghanistan, the NATO-led force said.
The Taliban said the two missing soldiers were dead and it had recovered their bodies.
A statement by the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan said more than 25 troops were wounded during a search and rescue mission.
Lieutenant Darin Russell, a spokesman for NATO forces, said the troops were wounded "by insurgent activity." He declined to give further details of the incident, which he said was under investigation.
He was unable to say how many of the wounded were NATO troops and how many were Afghans, or whether any of them had been killed.
The chief of police in Badghis province in western Afghanistan, Abdul Jabar, said NATO aircraft had struck their own troops during the search and that several Americans had died in the "friendly fire" air strike.....
For the link to the Gaza article and for making the poem legible. So much you do for people here.
I have always seen the essence of the problem as this (from the article):
The fundamental platform of Hamas was its refusal to accept Israel’s right to exist, yet polls showed that Palestinians overwhelmingly supported the concept of two states. A referendum would be not only a rebuke to Hamas; it also would be a signal to Israel—and to the rest of the world—that Palestinians were determined to make peace. Abbas set the referendum for July.
{but predictably...}
Just before dawn on June 25th, eight Palestinian commandos crawled out of a tunnel into a grove of trees in Kerem Shalom. A new moon was in the sky, making it the darkest night of the month. With mortar fire and anti-tank missiles providing cover, the commandos, some of them disguised in Israeli military uniforms, split into three teams. One team attacked an empty armored personnel carrier, which had been parked at the crossing as a decoy. Another team hit the observation tower.
_____________________________________________________________________
Name one oil-rich Arab country that has spent a penny in an effort to lift muslims in Palestine and other parts of the Arab world out of poverty. You can't. There aren't any.
Now name the amount (in USD) that Saudi sheiks have spent funding Madrassas.
is the assymetry of the Israeli-Palestinian relationship.
Israel is a well-armed (illegally) nuclear power which bullies and terrorizes Palestinians at will under the protective blanket of the US.
It confiscates their land and water, and restricts their movement, all in defiance of international law.
The only recourse for Palestinians is their pathetic little rockets which kill maybe a half-dozen Israelis annualy and for which they feel the full wrath of the hypocritical western governments.
If the Israelis were willing to negotiate with Palestinians as equals, much of the fear and loething would disappear
attempted at Oslo.
Again:
The fundamental platform of Hamas was its refusal to accept Israel’s right to exist, yet polls showed that Palestinians overwhelmingly supported the concept of two states.
FIRST, accept Israel's right to exist.
The rest would follow in small steps but that first step is essential. Hamas refuses to do so even though most Palestinians would be willing.
Your claim is that because Israel has better firepower that the ONLY option available to Hamas is to strap suicide belts on their children and send them into Israeli cities, of course with the promise of eternal martyrdom and a heavenly existence with their very own 27 virgins (or whatever the number).
Compare Israel's literacy rates, # of universities, etc. to the rest of the entire Arab world....yet all the Persian Gulf nations are willing to do is fund Madrassas where only boys may attend and we all know what they learn in the Madrassas.
Facts, John.
Seems to me Israel's existing just fine..with nukes and continuing expansion of settlements, which this administration is allowing but said it wouldn't.
cC, it takes 2 to tango.
*******************
Welcome back, rdorgan. I have my doubts that the I/P "asymetrical relationship" can be discussed here, or most anywhere, w/o personal attacks.
"Seems to me Israel's existing just fine..with nukes and continuing expansion of settlements, which this administration is allowing but said it wouldn't."---
Well, you might consult a map of the region. How many Arab countries...you know, the ones that surround Israel but for the sea...how many of those countries recognize Israel's right to exist?
Do you know what that denial implies/means? What is the primary stated goal of Hamas?
Seeking the depth of your knowledge on the issue is not a personal attack, btw.
Anyway, we all know where this conversation goes here.
Peace out, folks.
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11062009.html
If Jonathan Swift traveled to the United States today, he would surely ditch the little guys, the big guys and the horses and just feature Gulliver being squashed flat by enormously fat people.
and wanted me express her sadness at the passing of Anni. She also wrote this today:
"The House bill is a bunch of watered down crap written on Repub. toilet paper according to Big Eddy. His tv show question of the day will be....."Has Barack Obama turned his back on the base?"
We're getting some much needed rain. Beautiful.
I would have just had a one-sentence bill: Congress hereby extends Medicare to all Americans. Period.
George McGovern on presidents from Lincoln to Obama.
Israel calls on Gulf states to aid Palestinians
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Videos of some of the 64 House Healthcare Heroes standing strong for a public health insurance option
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- Palestinian
By * rdorgan on Nov 6, 2009 9:44 AM ESTLink
updated at 12:04 GMT, Friday, 6 November 2009
Israel has rejected a UN resolution calling on it to independently investigate suspected war crimes during its military offensive in Gaza.
...
Link
updated at 12:14 GMT, Friday, 6 November 2009
Israeli and Arab commentators consider the reasons behind Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' decision not to stand in forthcoming elections, with many saying his position was made untenable this week after US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's visit to the region.
Newspapers from Israel and the Palestinian territories agree that the apparent softening of US rhetoric on the construction of Israeli settlements in the West Bank left Mr Abbas with no choice but to stand down.
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Link
Troubled portrait of US shooter
2009-11-06 14:13
...
Hasan attended prayers regularly when he lived outside Washington, often in his army uniform, said Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Maryland. He said Hasan was a lifelong Muslim.
"I got the impression that he was a committed soldier," Khan said. He spoke often with Hasan about Hasan's desire for a wife.
On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a programme at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Virginia, but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said.
"I don't know why he listed Palestinian," Khan said, "He was not born in Palestine."
...