Home » The Watercooler for 11/04/09 9:00 AM
The Watercooler for 11/04/09 9:00 AM
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Watercooler resets everyday at 1am, 9am and 5pm. Past threads can be found in the Watercooler Archive
Your example of your continued efforts, articulation, and integrity are much needed. Thank you.
The previous post should have been on the late night thread, but okay.
I'm watching MSNBC and as usual, the pundits are taking the wrong lesson from what happened yesterday, insisting that Blue Dogs have to move to further to the right in order to keep their seats in the midterms. Sigh.
Someone at Kos mentioned that Corzine was weak and should have had a primary challenger. My take on that was that such a challenge would have made Corzine stronger in the general if he won, and if he lost the primary, the Democrat would have kept the Statehouse.
The Club of Growths spent a million dollars on NY 23. Life am good.
Progressives won CA 10.
Message to Maine: You should be nicer to gay people. The Bible says we will be judged by our fruits. Ya Bitch!
A pretty girl in Buffalo asked me to marry her and I'm seriously considering it...
She and her daughter, 5 yrs old cute as a button, visited here for 12 days, and I'm going up to visit for about as long this Friday. She Loves me bunches, and you know how my heart Loves to fly.
So far, she's promised to buy me a snow blower so I don't have to shovel it back on to the lake...?! She also knows that I hate the cold, in spite of my Santa complex, and promises to keep me warm in ways yet to be determined. (see Full Snuggle Blues.)
Srsly.
.
My husband and I were both confused by this *no* meaning *yes* for equality. If we were confused ~ think of an elderly person... Good morning to everybody btw!!! Here's a snippet of a diary from Daily Kos:
Is "No" on "No" part of the problem?
by Tamar
Wed Nov 04, 2009 at 06:54:25 AM PST
I doubt that the vast majority of people who voted against gay marriage yesterday did it by accident. They knew what they were doing and were egged on by the forces of bigotry and fear.
But I wonder if some small portion of the "yes" votes on Question 1 (and the yes on Prop 8) was caused by confusion, even though the Maine ground forces for marriage equality did an excellent job getting the word out.
- Tamar's diary :: ::
Just look at the need to reverse your thinking in order to vote for marriage equality:
You have to say no in order to say yes to equality --
This November, voters will be asked:
"Do you want to reject the new law that lets same-sex couples marry and allows individuals and religious groups to refuse to perform these marriages?"
Answer: Vote NO on 1.
http://action.protectmaineequality.o...
In order to uphold marriage equality, you have to vote no --
We understood from the beginning that we would be successful in upholding the marriage law only if we were able to identify our supporters and then get them out to vote.
- If you abandon Democratic principles in a bid for unnecessary "bipartisanship", you will lose votes.
- If you water down reform in favor of Blue Dogs and their corporate benefactors, you will lose votes.
- If you forget why you were elected -- health care, financial services, energy policy and immigration reform -- you will lose votes.
Stay tuned for next November
In any event, yesterday's "Super Tuesday" losses to governorships in two states lesson is. . .
Corzine was not a good governor, made many mistakes and irritated voters to the hilt. I might vote against him myself. But the new governor should take a message from this--you can't rule like a Tea Bagger or you too will lose your next election.
In Virginia, as history says, *always* changes the party in the governor's office right after the presidency changes parties.
~~~~~~
The big message from yesterday is: That loser Sarah, the Tea Baggers, loser Santorum (man on dog), loser Fred Thompson, and all the rest of that radical gang lost to a relatively unknown Democrat.
The antidote for the Party of No is: Go home Sarah and take your friends with you--go fishing or something--give the R party a chance to recuperate after the harm you have done to it.
and not just what they think will get them the votes. and the last time I checked, the USA was NOT a solely progressive country - so I don't 'expect' to get everything I want from any potus.
(okay now, let's see if I can state an opinion for once w/o the usual insults from the usual suspects, huh?! anyone want to put money on it?)
and all of those Mainers who worked so hard for marriage equality.
______________________________________________________________________
Also, Pat you are so right about the PR capabilities of AARP. My mom, a lifelong, FDR, pro-labor Democrat had been a member for years. I learned of the AARP lobbying and pharma connections here at the blog from Susan Rowe. Mom is no longer a member nor are some of her close circle.
________________________________________________________________________
Sorry, should have started with:
Good morning to all.
we still get out Medicare Supplement Insurance through them. (United Health Care--ugh). We have never had a problem with it and they work seamlessly with Medicare. You don't have to be a member of AARP to do this.
With respect to the VA and NJ governorship races, which Blumenthal and Silver accurately called, perhaps the only good news for Dems is that no credible political analysts see these races as referenda on President Obama. As E. J. Dionne, Jr. put it in his 'Post-Partisan' blog, "Less Than Fired-Up" at WaPo:
...Substantial majorities of voters in both Virginia and New Jersey said that Obama was not a decisive factor in their decisions today. That will make it easier for the White House to say these contests were decided by local factors. And a majority of voters in both states gave Obama positive approval ratings. This will undermine efforts by the president’s foes to use words like “repudiation” in characterizing what these results tell us about popular attitudes toward Obama.
'Undermine' yes, 'stop', no.
Have had my Part D insurance through AARP insurance. Changing this year to something that will actually cover the meds my *doctor* wants me to take, instead of forcing my doctor to prescribe what's in their formulary.
She (my doc) was fuming about "step therapy" last visit. For those of you who don't know what it is: it's trying a whole bunch of meds that don't work before they can prescribe the ones that do work. (Work your way through all the chehap ones before they'll pay for expensive ones) My problem with this, is while you're working your way through the ones that *don't* work, you have NO medicine that does work. And it can take close to a year to work it depending on what number of drugs are available that don't work. And the patient, of course, can die, of bad medicine, in the year. . . . And once you do get to the "class" of drugs your doctor wants, the particular one may not be on the formulary, anyway.
Gotta love it when big Pharma gets to write the laws. . . .
- Just one of many reasons we did not opt to buy Med Part D from *any* company
By Joan In Florida on Nov 4, 2009 1:33 PM ESTA few people may benefit by it, but mostly it seems to be a ripoff.
Perhaps when the Health Bill gets passed, if it ever does, the donut hole will be closed somewhat. But that still doesn't fix the problem drug coverage changing from day to day.
Med Part D reminds me of a gambling casino where the gambler almost always loses in the end...it's rigged that way.
Ohioans Pass Livestock Care Standards Amendment
11/4/2009
Kim Watson, Beef Today editor
Yesterday, Ohio voters approved the Livestock Care Standards Constitutional Amendment (Issue 2 on the ballot), which creates a new state board that would develop and oversee guidelines for the care of livestock and poultry.
"Ohioans have spoken and clearly understand that a board of experts is the appropriate entity to make decisions on behalf of animal agriculture and food production in our state. Passage of Issue 2 is a win for everyone who acknowledges the essential relationship between excellent farm animal care and a safe, affordable, locally grown food supply," says John Lumpe, president, Ohioans for Livestock Care (...)
The 13-member board will include three family farmers, two veterinarians (one of whom is the state veterinarian), a food safety expert, a representative of a local humane society, two members from statewide farm organizations, the dean of an Ohio agriculture college and two members representing Ohio consumers.
One of the reasons I am slowly becoming a vegetarian is because of animal cruelty--the lack of compassion or respect for these magnificent creatures.
The farming of cattle, pigs, etc. is a detriment to the environment and it cannot be sustained with growing world population. Neither can wildlife but thats another story.
Lastly, I gave up buying, cooking or eating pork in any way, shape or form. They are among the world's top ten intelligent animals, as smart as dogs, cats, parrots, and dolphins.
Pigs are the least understood of the farm animals by farmers, perhaps by choice. Nobody wants to know that the pig they will servefor dinner is smarter than the smart pet dog begging near the kitchen table.
To the wingnuts, the real prize in NY 23 was defeating the moderate Republican Scozzafava. They believe they have taught the national GOP a lesson. However, the lesson the national GOP might really have learned is that the far right base cannot win elections. The Teabaggers threw everything they had at New York 23, and they lost to a Democrat.
“Will Republicans do Obama a big favor by nominating a crop of Hoffmans for 2010?” Josh Marshall asks. We’ll see.
- Senator Roland Burris (D) IL speaking in the Senate today
By Joan In Florida on Nov 4, 2009 2:00 PM ESTreiterated his commitment of two months ago not to vote for any health care bill that does not contain a robust public option. He described his opinion of what *robust* would mean--all common sense.
Burris is a strong Dem but he will not be running again because he says he cannot get enough contributions to do so. Illinoisans should think again. Though Burris has some Blago scars, they may not find another dedicated Dem as Burris, who is well-spoken, intelligent, & a good thinker.
Dear Joan,
I wanted you to be one of the first to know that, this afternoon, I will be filing papers to establish a committee to explore a potential candidacy for Governor of Connecticut.
Since our 2006 campaign for Senate, I have continued to meet with citizens across our state -- as co-chairman of the Obama campaign in Connecticut, founder of a state policy institute at Central Connecticut State University, and as an outspoken advocate for health care reform. I have been constantly reminded during these conversations that Connecticut is not living up to its potential and that too many of our families are still being left behind.
Whether it has been health care and the economy, losing jobs, young people leaving the state, or the never-ending budget crisis, we have all seen our state head in the wrong direction.
Simply put, Connecticut's current Chief Executive is not getting the job done.
Over the next few weeks, I look forward to continuing these conversations with voters across the state. And I also look forward to hearing from all of you.You can sign up here to stay connected on Twitter and Facebook:
http://www.nedlamont.com
I hope to have your support as we start this new chapter together.Paid for by Lamont 2010 Exploratory Committee, Sara Clarke, Treasurer.
allright!
- "Simply put, Connecticut's current Chief Executive is not getting the job done."
By cChal on Nov 4, 2009 3:49 PM ESTI hope that this time Ned Lamont comes up with a clearly defined platform stating what HE will do for CT as Gov. My observation was that in his run against LieberTraitor he focused too much on Lieb and not enough on his own platform.
In fairness to him, he was new at politics and might not have had the best advisors.
I did get from him that he cares deeply about his country and his state and that he's one of us:)!
Good luck, sir!
Pat, first you accuse me of using Anni. Then you claim I was neglected and abused. (Let's not forget all the other vitiol you spewed).
I grew us on a lake swimming, ice fishing, ice boating, skating, sailing, playing tennis and I bought and paid for my own horse when I was 12. Furthermore, I had a mother who loved me and a father who was emotionally cool,admittedly, but he taught me many good things;one of which is to stay far away from people like you.
Are you jealous of that? I hear a lot of jealousy behind your anger at me, which you said goes back to the 60's. You sure know how to hang on to the past. Whew! Lots of baggage there, Pat. You might want to get a carry-on~
- Since you put this personal stuff on the blog, I have the right to butt in so--
By Joan In Florida on Nov 4, 2009 3:36 PM ESTI doubt there is *anyone* here on this blog who is jealous of you for whatever. It is a very juvenile thought of yours but it is good for a nice laugh this beautiful afternoon!
It is funny how Demos approach to politics similar to that of their "friends across..."...lol.
-----------------
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33620711/ns/politics-more_politics/
"...White House press secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters that..."very local issues...didn't involve the president...."
Data/facts trump snark...ALWAYS.
you made good points. Never underestimate the power of the dems to shoot themselves in the foot.
Ignoring that by saying that an idiot like Palin could never win, is whistling by the graveyard.
and I were discussing the merits or nonmerits of breaking up banks on the British model. Mostly got lost in the election fervor so I'm reposting some of dog's remarks here:
By dog soldier on Nov 3, 2009 4:35 PM PST
The reality is, the bank-breakup mission is being done because no one knows what else to do.
Before doing something with lots of unknown consequences, study the problem and decide what parts are the problem. Correct those parts. It is a more of an engineering approach instead of a big hammer and fix it later approach.
Congress must write a law that the investment side is never bailed out; only the deposit side by FDIC and the instruments are never blended.
Also rewrite bankruptcy law so 401K/IRA holders are ahead of creditors and bond holders. This limits the moral hazard of banks wiping out everyone.
There should be data checks when a bank has so many multiples of depositors invested, the boards of directors are put on notice and the margins they have on the investment sides are lowered. Even though the deposit side is isolated, the relative size is a valid datapoint of activity.--
- dog, I've had a bit of time to consider your suggested measures
By cChal on Nov 4, 2009 3:20 PM ESTand I have this to say so far:
Your attempt is at protecting depositors which makes sense but in the too big to fail problem (I'll call this TBTF) the biggest losers are taxpayers....not just depositors.
When banks fails, it is the people of the country who pay the cost. Once upon a time, they
paid in their capacity as depositors. Today they more often pay in their capacity as taxpayers. The problem is that when a lot of banks fail, the cost is too much for the government to face, or for the budget to absorb.
Still thinking about this and trying to keep banking reform from securities industry reform somewhat separate in my mind.
Anyway, very much enjoying the discussion.
Another Friday night salvage-operation by the FDIC netted a big haul this week: nine U.S. banks were officially declared insolvent – all part of a large, banking chain, bringing the total this year to 115 banks. The remnants of these corpses have been absorbed into other financial institutions, but at a net cost to the FDIC of another $2.5 billion.
Large bank-failures such as Indy Mac demonstrate this. Indy Mac never appeared on the FDIC's list. One day it was “healthy”, the next day it was bankrupt.
The FDIC argues that it needs to keep its list of troubled banks confidential – to protect these sick banks from the damage that would be caused by letting the public know the truth: that these institutions are close to bankruptcy. However, an important part of the FDIC's legislative mandate is to maintain “confidence” in the U.S. financial system.
What does it do for confidence in the U.S. banking system when it is public knowledge that the primary regulator of U.S. banks doesn't even have an accurate list of the nation's “troubled banks”, despite knowing the real number of such pending failures? What does it do for confidence in the U.S. banking system when large, U.S. banks can go from being “healthy” to “insolvent”, over night?
"...the “solution” is to throw small U.S. banks an anchor and make it even easier for the too-big-to-fail oligarchs to cannibalize more of their smaller, weaker brethren – allowing them to grow even larger and more powerful in the process.
What this also means is less credit available to U.S. consumers and U.S. small businesses. While Wall Street banks are simply choosing to continue to cut back on their lending (despite over $1 Trillion sitting in a “savings account” with the Federal Reserve), smaller U.S. banks will be prevented from lending more over the next two years (when the U.S. economy and Americans need it most) because of much higher fees to the FDIC.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Reich:
Does anyone remember antitrust laws? Somewhere along the line
policymakers decided that antitrust would only be used where there was
evidence a company had so much market power it could keep prices higher
than otherwise.
We seem to have forgotten that the original
purpose of antitrust law was also to prevent companies from becoming
too powerful. Too powerful in that so many other companies depended on
them, so many jobs turned on them, and so many consumers or investors
or depositors needed them – that the economy as a whole would be
endangered if they failed. Too powerful in that they could wield
inordinate political influence – of a sort that might gain them extra
favors from Washington.
Visiting your friend on the island in the 60s, you stole from the house where she was staying, just toilet paper, and she was kicked out. Even then you were an urchin, lost, without direction, using people. You've said yourself you were sexually abused, were an alcoholic in high school and, yet wonderfully talented, creative, and so it goes.
I think in the 50s and 60s so much abuse went on, and because it was hidden, no one talked, and emotional abuse is maybe even more devastating that physical abuse becaue people didn't take it into account. Abusers were usually abused.
But, you survived, Annilow survived (I read her bio: the loss of an infant, alcoholism, drug abuse, several marriages), and yet, she was kind. Her eyes were kind. She was loyal to you. And yes, you used her in your polarizing.
But, finally, I'm not your judge. I've learned that I was angry for what you do to others. I didn't take into account what was done to you. That takes away my anger and I regret that anger. I just hate it when people hurt people, but we all do. So, carry on with your life, Seashell. I do wish you well, but I hate your prejudice, your malice, your polarizing, and what it does to the atmosphere. But, maybe you can't help it.
And no, Seashell, I've never been jealous of you. That's one vice I don't have. I have way too much righteousness, protectiveness and intolerance of intolerance, but not jealousy.
you've overstepped the bounds of decency, again. BTW, I also "lifted" some little thing from the dime store once when I was a kid.
The "abuse" consisted of being felt up by a dirty old relative. That was resolved many years ago in therapy.
Did therapy help you with your alcoholic family?
Be very thankful that I don't reveal the ugly side of you, which I could easily do. I know your little secrets and your problems with family and lots of other stuff. I still have those nasty letters you wrote to me. And I remember what David said to you about.......
Putting personal stuff here is so vindictive, so hateful that I considered retaliating. I could destroy your credibility here but I won't...not unless you keep at me with your lies and knives.
Now you're likely to say that I cheated on my husband, which is true, and that I had an affair with a 17 year old, which is false. He was 19. I have no secrets. I was young, foolish at times and drinking. That was another lifetime and you insist on keeping me there. Sorry, I've moved on.
Keep pushing, Pat. You'll regret it.
Write me an email and leave this off the blog.
The way you talk to me, one would think I stole your husband.
And BTW, Pat, you're an abuser. You try to verbally destroy people.
re: I hate your prejudice, your malice, your polarizing, and what it does to the atmosphere. But, maybe you can't help it.
same here - stop blaming everyone else for your bad habits, sea, because personally I think you CAN help it if you choose to.
Strange!
What some see here as a malice I see as expressed pain for this Country and its direction.
What some see here as a prejudice I see as an attempt to seek and find true justice.
What some see here as polarizing as I see as an attempt to clarify blurred, not clear distinction on stances.
Keep on See, there is no prophet in one's motherland!
pretty hard to express yourself when it is not your mother tongue like former, and yet a valid POV was expressed and instead of a comment on that POV another attack.
many votes are close to 50/50 in this country and the other side is duty bound to divide us
I just don't get the facilitation of that effort.
seashell went on personal attack on this thread just as she did on yesterday's 5pm.
There is nothing in sea's comments in this thread that could remotely be interpreted as:
"expressed pain for this Country and its direction."
"an attempt to seek and find true justice."--
Nor is there anything in former's remark that indicates a lack of ability to communicate based on ESL. Not even a *nice try*, Phil.
Get real. Besides, I was just joshing with former...you know, just being a jester...:
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 6:15 PM PST:
" cartoonists, jesters drop bait - comedy central would die without it"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and given the vitriol expressed on this thread....none of it by me, it is interesting that you chose to lip off in response to my rather benign by comparison, comment.
Re-read yesterday's 5pm, Phil. You didn't fool anyone and but yourself.
me personally I'm a long time blogger, and the attacks suck and I don't give a damn who started what
I come in from a cold windy day and sit down with a cup of coffee expecting to find a conversation about yesterday's voting and find the same old attack shit.
it is getting old
you didn't start it, no, just happened to be front and center when I booted the thread
good joke now that I re-read it making fun of former's language difficulties
most humor is a put down, carry on with your new career
you didn't start it, no, just happened to be front and center when I booted the thread
good joke now that I re-read it making fun of former's language difficulties
most humor is a put down, carry on with your new career------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. I responded to these comments from former (he was talking about seashell):
"expressed pain for this Country and its direction."
"an attempt to seek and find true justice."--
------------------------------------------------------------------
I see no issues with language there...only a peculiar interpretation of her remarks (which were personal attacks) on this thread.
So, either you are tired or a liar. I did not poke fun at his "language issues" and I don't see any language issues in his post.
Carry on with your propaganda campaign. It won't work. The record is there for all to see and just like in yesterday's thread you won't fool anyone but yourself.
When I came to this thread I saw the personal attacks, ignored them and discussed banking reform.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"most humor is a put down"---
Well, in your own words:
By Phil Specht on Nov 3, 2009 6:15 PM PST:
" cartoonists, jesters drop bait - comedy central would die without it"
People see either what they want to see,or they project all over the other.
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- Morning Phil,
By Pat in Colorado on Nov 4, 2009 9:00 AM ESTYes, I agree, the good news is rejection of the hatred spewing Limbaughs and Palins.
This morning on NPR, wow, for Hillary Clinton. She remarked that President Obama had done something no other president had done, even her husband, which was to clearly articulate U.S. policy towards Israel and it's rejection of building more settlements. She then affirmed that every step which is positive should be responded to.
I am seeing in Hillary Clinton intelligence, which was always there, but pragmatism, clear articulation, integrity, grit, courage. I am so pleased and impressed by her efforts. In fact, I'd go so far as to say what she has in backbone and courage is something we as a country can be very proud of.
I just know we Americans can do better, we can reclaim the idealism, integrity, community spirit, and respect that we have so lost in the polarizing years from Reagan through Bush 43. I know we can do it.
Have a fine day.