Home » The Watercooler for 10/30/09 9:00 AM
The Watercooler for 10/30/09 9:00 AM
DFA's home for a free form, open-ended discussion of what matters most to committed progressive activists.
Watercooler resets everyday at 1am, 9am and 5pm. Past threads can be found in the Watercooler Archive
yesterdays wind and rain brought them all down
Iowa just had the all time wettest month record broken for October after the coldest July.
I sure don't want tto see those two combine in December.
If healthcare stocks don't decline after the two versions are now out I will feel they didn't cut costs enough.
worse could happen than a retreat of the Dow if it means more dollars in peoples pockets instead of shareholders
Some vague blue sky after two plus feet of snow. Hi Phil, the storm is now in Nebraska and Kansas. I shoveled off the deck yesterday, shook heavy snow off the Ponderosa pines, and was amazed at how achey and stiff I was after a couple of hours outside. Winter is here.
Howard Dean was on Countdown last night as was Dennis Kucinich. I'm glad for both of them. Howard said that it was a good bill and he was happy with it and had confidence that a strong public option would be in the final version. He said, though, that 2013 was too long a time and that needed to be improved right now. He said it was unlikely that everything could be enacted by 2010, but the public option needed to come sooner.
I'm glad that Dennis Kucinich was speaking his mind too. It's good to hear what should be as well as what is likely to be.
I think it's interesting that no one mentioned Howard Dean's affirmation last night; instead railed about how imperfect, wrong, hypocritical the bill was. I am glad that Howard Dean isn't president. I can imagine the howls and castigation he would have had to endure. Barack Obama seems more able to slough off such vituperation, and I think both Howard Dean and Barack Obama are much the same in their pragmatism and ethical stances.
Thank you, Jo, for the animal clips a couple of nights ago. With all this snow here, my focus has been on staying warm and clearing enough snow away to open the door.
I watched Howard last night on Countdown. I also found him to be happy with the HR bill. Howard just makes sense.
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Pat ~ I surely don't miss all that shoveling! My goodness Colorado was walloped with the white stuff. We have a bit of rain here but I won't complain. I can still hike in this stuff.
Hope everyone here has a pleasant day.
any benefits from the health care "Reform", by mid-2010, the repugs will be able to claim (with some justification) that it's a failure, and we might see something akin to 1994 in the mid-terms--a significant loss of seats if not outright loss of Congress.
- Pelosi must include the Kucinich and Weiner Amendments...CALL TODAY!!!
By Susan Rowe on Oct 30, 2009 10:22 AM EDTPlease call Speaker Pelosi's DC office at 202-225-4965 today!
Demand that she live up to her agreement to include the Kucinich Amendment in the final legislation and schedule a vote for the Weiner Amendment.
It is urgent that we act quickly on this.
IF YOU AGREE MAKE THIS YOUR FACEBOOK MESSAGE FOR TODAY! (or your blog or email list)
In Solidarity,
Charles Showalter
We want to hear your thoughs call 412 829-7100 12-1 eastern time!
- Please, please call and make this message go viral. Our Union Brothers and Sisters need our help!!
By Susan Rowe on Oct 30, 2009 10:26 AM EDT
CHAIRMANSHIPS AIN'T FREE
Harkin on Lieberman ...
"[Lieberman] still wants to be a part of the Democratic Party although he is a registered independent," Harkin said. "He wants to caucus with us and, of course, he enjoys his chairmanship of the [Homeland Security] committee because of the indulgence of the Democratic Caucus. So, I'm sure all of those things will cross his mind before the final vote."
--Josh Marshall
the fans of the house bill were listening to on countdown. The HD I listened to said quite explicily that if the main components were not enacted by 2010, the Democrats face big losses in the 2010 elections. In particular he pointed out that putting the PO off until 2013 makes no sense.
Enter Obama, we can all hope. He's already said he will own the final bill. If it's the current house version, it will drag him and the Dems down. No amount of Rah Rah will change that.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20091029_mcchrystal_doesnt_get_it_does_obama/
There is a curious phenomenon taking place in the American media at the moment: the lionization of Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the American military commander in Afghanistan. Although he has taken a few lumps for playing politics with the White House, McChrystal has generally been sold to the American public as a “Zen warrior,” a counterinsurgency genius who, if simply left to his own devices, will be able to radically transform the ongoing debacle that is Afghanistan into a noble victory that will rank as one of the greatest political and military triumphs of modern history.
McChrystal operates under the illusion that American military power can provide a shield from behind which Afghanistan can remake itself into a viable modern society. He has deluded himself and others into believing that the people of Afghanistan want to be part of such a grand social experiment, and furthermore that they will tolerate the United States being in charge. The reality of Afghan history, culture and society argue otherwise. The Taliban, once a defeated entity in the months following the initial American military incursion into Afghanistan, are resurgent and growing stronger every day. The principle source of the Taliban’s popularity is the resentment of the Afghan people toward the American occupation and the corrupt proxy government of Hamid Karzai.
- Herceptin - What Jane and others should know (and probably do already)
By Love White Castles on Oct 30, 2009 11:12 AM EDT
Insurance Information
We're here to help
Handling insurance matters can be difficult on your own. That's where Herceptin Access Solutions<sup>™</sup>can help. Although you are not required to use this free information resource, you may find it reassuring to know that Herceptin Access Solutions is here for you if you need help with your insurance matters.
What is Herceptin Access Solutions?
Herceptin Access Solutions, sponsored by Genentech, Inc., is a free resource that can provide patients and their healthcare providers with helpful insurance reimbursement information regarding Herceptin<sup>®</sup>
Herceptin Access Solutions reimbursement specialists can offer you assistance with:
- Investigating your Herceptin insurance coverage benefits
- Assessing whether prior authorization, from your insurance, is needed for your Herceptin therapy
- Appealing denied Herceptin claims
- Providing patient assistance resources
You can access more information about Herceptin Access Solutions on the internet atwww.HerceptinAccessSolutions.com, or speak to a Herceptin Access Solutions reimbursement specialist at:
Toll-free: 1-888-249-4918 (6 AM to 5 PM Pacific time Monday-Friday)
What if I don't have insurance?
Not all Herceptin (trastuzumab) patients have complete medical coverage, so we've provided some alternative resources.
Please note: This page contains the Web address to a number of other organizations that may offer useful information. We suggest visiting those sites directly to obtain information on specific details of coverage, and educational and financial support services for Herceptin. Unless otherwise indicated, Genentech, Inc. is not a partner or affiliated with any company listed. The availability of insurance coverage and financial assistance varies from company to company, plan to plan, and state to state. Genentech, Inc. does not imply or guarantee that your insurance company nor any other company will provide coverage or assistance for Herceptin. Genentech, Inc. is not responsible for any decisions of partial or noncoverage of Herceptin.
Genentech<sup>®</sup> Access to Care Foundation
Although Genentech's products are covered by most government and private insurance, Genentech has established the Genentech Access to Care Foundation for its marketed products.We are committed to eligible patients having access to all of our drugs for approved indications. For eligible patients who are treated in the United States, Genentech will provide product to those who cannot afford to pay because we believe it is the right thing to do.
http://www.herceptin.com/breast-cancer-resources/insurance.jsp
I don't get paid to bring this information to this space, if that is what your ignorant comment was supposed to imply
Sea brought up the drug name on the over night thread. This is information directly related to it.
May you or members of your family never have to purchase Herceptin or any other life saving drug.
Thank you for that Denise. My boss just got a call that they want her to do her mammagram over and not because the results were blurry. They sounded pretty serious. So we are worried and concerned. this info may be of use to her in the near future.
You're welcome Mz Little - I hope she does NOT need this info. Only 25% of all breast cancer tumors are HER2 positive. The real question is - why is there so much cancer, breast or otherwise, nowadays? We all have our opinions on that.
It is the INSURANCE COMPANIES that don't get it and deny access. Those 20 coworkers I referred to only work on biooncologics. Others biologics such as Pulmozyme for cystic fibrosis (if any of us got that disease when we were born we wouldn't be here - now we have adults with CF living normal lives until lung transplants are needed - which is why being an organ donor is so important)
Activase for stroke - another great biologic. Lots to learn if one is so inclined.
Happy Halloween!
Some pundits and observers make note of the fact that the Afghan people were able to prevail over the Soviets only because of billions of dollars of U.S. aid, which together with similar funding from Saudi Arabia and the logistical support of Pakistan, allowed the Afghan resistance to coalesce, grow and ultimately defeat the Soviets and their Afghan allies. They note that there is no equivalent source of empowerment for the Taliban in Afghanistan today. But they are wrong. The Taliban receive millions of dollars from sympathetic sources in the Middle East, in particular from Saudi Arabia, and they operate not only from within Afghanistan, but also out of safe havens inside Pakistan.
Indeed, one of the unique aspects of the Afghan conflict is the degree to which it has expanded into Pakistan, making any military solution in one theater contingent on military victory in the other. But the reality is that the more one employs military force in either Afghanistan or Pakistan, the more one strengthens the cause and resources of the Islamic insurgents in both places. Pashtunistan, once a fanciful notion built around the concept of a united Pashtun people (the population in eastern Afghanistan and western Pakistan are primarily drawn from Pashtun tribes), has become a de facto reality.
Maybe we'll be able to get out of our driveway and down the mountain today, and maybe not.
The MountainEar newspaper from Nederland had as a motto: You see what you want to see; you hear what you want to hear. Seems true to me.
Yes, HuJo, Howard Dean did say that much of the bill needs to be ennacted before 2010 so that people can see the benefits. Otherwise, the Democrats could lose in the 2010 elections, but he reaffirmed more than once that he was happy with the bill, that it was a good bill, both Senate and House versions.
You see what you want to see; you hear what you want to hear.
Mary, no wonder you had so much snow in Breckenridge: you were at 10,000 feet above sea level. Here in Cedar Park above Drake, we are at 6800 feet above sea level, a veritable banana belt in comparison.
I recommend the new Newsweek as a weekly magazine. Excellent essays, has much more substance than the old, and has a variety of viewpoints. In the latest issue: Mark Sanford (Appalacian Trail Sanford) writes about Ayn Rand and her relevance. Interesting reading even if I'm cringing at his assumptions. To me, Ayn Rand was in LaLa Land and still is.
The new governor of Kirov, Russia talks about himself as wanting to be the Russian Obama. He was a liberal, but accepted the governorship offered by Medvedev because he felt he could work within the system to change it. He felt his old liberal/progressive party was too extreme ever to attain power.
Random thought: Liz Cheney truly is the spawn of Satan. Good gawd, her lies seem effortless.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/a_primer_for_followon_biologic.html
Unfortunately, it's scientifically impossible to create an identical "generic" biologic. Congressional lawmakers should bone up on their biochemistry before deciding what to do about biologics.
Let's take a look at conventional drugs.
Produced using chemical reactions, conventional drugs are comprised of small molecules. So it's possible to make an exact copy, even of a branded drug. For example, there's no difference between Tylenol and store-brand acetaminophen -- both contain the same 20 atoms arranged in the same molecular structure.
Consequently, the approval process for generic drugs is speedy. Generics don't have to go through their own clinical trials, and can instead rely on the data from the drug being copied.
There are only two catches.
First, generic drug makers are prohibited from accessing the data on the drug they want to copy until five years after its approval by the FDA. In Europe, this "data exclusivity" period is 6 or 10 years, depending on the country.
Second, generic manufacturers can't enter the market until a drug's patent has expired. Drug patents expire 20 years after filing, but because research companies submit their applications long before testing even begins, the "shelf life" of a drug patent is generally between seven and 12 years.
Biologics, by contrast, are much more complex. Herceptin, a popular anti-cancer biologic, is comprised of about 25,000 atoms -- more than a thousand times as many as Tylenol.
Unsurprisingly, the manufacturing process for biologics is far more complicated. Most are grown in living organisms, and many involve modified DNA. Each molecule of a biologic may have a slightly different structural pattern -- even if it has the same chemical formula and is made according to the exact same process.
Thus, it's impossible to copy biologics perfectly. As best, they're similar. American scientists call them "follow-on biologics." In Europe, they're called "biosimilars.
They should read up especially their staffers. They should all know about the programs that are being offered. People call them for help every day when they don't know who else to contact.
and your quote from Governor Dean in no way contradicts the other HD quotes from Countdown that have been posted in this thread. I saw Countdown. No one has posted something that Governor Dean did not say. No one has misrepresented his remarks.
Your point?
President Obama has consistently said that despite any improved economic numbers, i.e., recent GDP #'s were better than expected recently, that the bottom line would be peoples' perceptions....secure employment, affordable health care, able to send their kids to college, etc.
He has always said, and he repeated it again two days ago, that how we citizens feel will be the determining factor in the success of his presidency.
**********************************************************************
Note: dog soldier is right. The only thing we own or can control is our own scroll wheel. I'll do better.
The last article is from June, 2008 but the information is and always has been true and correct. It does seem that Congress wised up.
seashell made it a point to bring up information but it would have been more honest to do the research around the points first - but cut and paste rarely allows for that.
She also told me once that she knew all about Herceptin when she had breast cancer, but I never could figure out if she was treated with it or not. And if so, how it was paid for. Again, Medicare is America's largest payor, aka insurance "company." If Herceptin was not used for treatment (all depends on whether or not the HER2 gene is overexpressed), there are a plethora of other treatments that are out there, including a diagnostic called Oncotype DX, which pinpoints how tumors will respond to treatments - enabling more efficacious treatments to be prescribed.
I'm happy to provide fair and balanced information on the blog in areas in which I am very familiar. Access Solutions currently has 20 folks out in the field. They are my customers and they live and breathe not only Herceptin, but all of the other biologic oncologic "futuristic" treatments (Herceptin has been on the market since 1998). They are stellar individuals and their job is solely to make sure women with breast cancer, as well as people with cancer, receive the treatments they need. Period.
Just want to say thank you LWC, cC, Dog Soldier, Luther Biggs, so many here who bring information that enhances understanding from a variety of viewpoints and expertise. I particularly like Puddle's research skills that bring clarity to almost every post that needs it.
Again, thank you blog; it's a real service.
The only thing we own or can control is our own scroll wheel.
Exactly.........the only posts I read hee these days are Hurons and seashells..........with the occasional farm report from Phil...............................
Anybody seen any transparency lately?
You hear what you want to hear. OK>
Hey it's better to remain ignorant so one can always have the perception of being right. Just as well, at least they aren't in medical school, thank God.
You probably had these problem children in class when you were a teacher. Disrupt so the others can't learn. What a waste.
All the details may not be available but I , like others here, will be sifting through it. I'll let the congressman from Ohio speak for me:
“Is this the best we can do? Forcing people to buy private health insurance, guaranteeing at least $50 billion in new business for the insurance companies?
“Is this the best we can do? Government negotiates rates which will drive up insurance costs, but the government won’t negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies which will drive up pharmaceutical costs.
“Is this the best we can do? Only 3% of Americans will go to a new public plan, while currently 33% of Americans are either uninsured or underinsured?
“Is this the best we can do? Eliminating the state single payer option, while forcing most people to buy private insurance.
“If this is the best we can do, then our best isn’t good enough and we have to ask some hard questions about our political system: such as Health Care or Insurance Care? Government of the people or a government of the corporations.”
www.airamerica.com/thenicolesandlershow/blog/10-29-2009/health-care-reform-not-dead-yet/?p=2
- Health Care Reform ? Part of the House Legislative Process
By Luther Biggs on Oct 30, 2009 2:26 PM EDT
Nancy Pelosi today released the final House bill, HR 3962 The Affordable Health Care for America Act, which includes a less than robust public option. The concession she had to give to garner the 218 votes necessary to get the bill off the floor, I suppose, was to promise reimbursement rates to be negotiated with doctors, rather than based on Medicare rates plus 5%.
Mr. Kucinich has been in the House a long time, and understands the snail-like pace and frustrating ways in which things get done. Obviously, as author of the bill, he'd like nothing more than a single payer health care system in the country. But, as he explained to me, bringing the Weiner amendment up for a floor vote is the wrong way to go about it! It would lose, handily. You don't go into these fights when you know you're going to lose!
But that's not the worst part of what happened today. Speaker "Off the Table" Pelosi sold out a couple of progressive members of the House.
First up, Anthony Weiner. You might remember Weiner introducing an amendment that would replace the then-House bill, HR 3200, with the Single Payer bill HR 676. At first, I thought this was a wonderful idea! That is, until I spoke with Congressman Dennis Kucinich, who co-authored HR 676 with John Conyers.---more--
- Health Care Reform ? Part of the House Legislative Process
By Luther Biggs on Oct 30, 2009 2:34 PM EDT---continued--
Congressman Weiner didn't heed the advice of his colleague, and pushed ahead, appearing on MSNBC, seemingly at every opportunity. Today, we learned that even though Congressman Weiner was promised a full floor vote on his amendment, it will not happen. Again, since it would have failed by a huge margin, it's probably just as well. And it did take the attention and efforts away from the better, more logical, Kucinich Amendment. But that certainly doesn't excuse the Speaker from her serious breach of trust; Education and Labor Committee Chairman Henry Waxman told him that Pelosi promised Mr. Weiner a full floor vote if he'd skip a committee vote.
www.airamerica.com/thenicolesandlershow/blog/10-29-2009/health-care-reform-not-dead-yet/?p=1
Dennis Kucinich got his amendment through the Education and Labor committee bill, which would have allowed states to create their own single payer statewide health care system. This was the one hope we had in this legislation that would have opened the door to the only system that would truly reform health care in this country. It passed in the committee on which Dennis sits; one of the three bills that was reported in the House, and merged into this new bill that Pelosi introduced today. Although, as David Swanson reports today on afterdowningstreet.org, the Kucinich Amendment was stripped out of the bill, and no new amendments will be allowed in the debate before the House votes on the legislation.
I don't think this is very funny. Making jokes out of folks with disabilities is way out of line. I have lots of friends who are blind. One of them knows driving directions better than most drivers. He's a paralegal. He also manages an apartment building for people who have disabilites. The California Democratic Party has a Disablities Caucus and they are powerful people. When they speak the party listens.
... I don't claim to be a politically correct person and maybe -just maybe- I made the same mistake that the Prez did on Jay Leno. Remember his remark about Special Olympics ? I don't think he meant to demean people with disabilities - and neither did I !
However, I'm not afraid or reluctant to call a spade a spade - so to speak. And,furthermore, the Prez has not been focused on this issue and he has not provided the leadership that the voters wanted ;and, he has allowed the "Blue Dogs" to push him to the curb.
So how come the Democratic Party aian't listening to 75 % of the American people ? Isn't that powerful enough ? Party politics appears to fly around political correctness and corporate largesse.This whole two party system is a shame - Political Science 101.
LWC wrote:
She also told me once that she knew all about Herceptin when she had breast cancer, but I never could figure out if she was treated with it or not. And if so, how it was paid for.
I knew nothing about it nor did I take it nor did I talk to you about it. I first heard about it here I think...or maybe my oncologist mentioned it offhand, but why? I never needed it.
What I do know for sure (months of internet study) is that there was a cure since the 30's or earlier and are cures available right now....being surpressed by the drug companies. Don't get me started. I've taken chemo and I've watched my mother die painfully. Best not to mess with me in this area. The Zofran anti-nausea pill I took cost me $50 a pop.
Let's HOPE none of you ladies who think this part of the bill is fine never get cancer. And let's further hope you men who agree don't have wives or other family members who get it.
************************
Pat, I posted that Dean said he thought the bill was a good one and that it shouldn't wait long to be implemented and that I was surprised. Perhaps he hasn't yet had time to read the bill. SELECTIVE READING or poor memory on your part. Could just be your age. :-)
*******************************
Sea, back several years I mentioned Herceptin to you when you told all of us you had BC at one point. You said you knew all about it and basically blew me off. I know it to be true, even if you do not recall it. I remember how rude your answer was to me, who was only trying to give you information you might have found useful.
So you either have a bad memory, or you lied at the time in your response to me.
Men also get breast cancer by the way.
Your "don't mess with me attitude" does not serve you well here. You seem angry. $50 a pop for an anti nausea treatment is a bargain. Unless you were destitute?
but not at you or bloggie.
I'm angry becuz I'm paying attention!
I'm angry the way puddle was angry at Liebermann!
OK, I think we're done with this dance. And I'm well aware men get breast cancer. It even occurred to me that I would be reminded of that if I didn't say that. I'm choosing to think that you were being helpful and informing me, which is always a good thing, thank you.
See how well I know you guys? lol
bbl I have to go and google "bad bad Obama." :-)
**********************
I give him HUGE kudos for going to Dover.........HUGE one!
- House Health Care Bill: A Death Sentence For My Fellow Breast Cancer Survivors
By Susan Rowe on Oct 30, 2009 3:01 PM EDTMyla Reson: Why does Jane Harman support this de facto Death Sentence for Breast Cancer Survivors? At last night's heath care forum in Venice, CA, Harman's District Director defended Harman's YES vote on the Eshoo-Barton amendment. Ask Harman's District Director Mike Divirgilio why Harman supports the Eshoo-Barton amendment. 310.643.3636
Sigh....more drama. By the way, Eshoo, who is my congresswoman was FOR biosimilars for a long time. I'm surprised she changed her tune.
Why would anybody be against this life saving treatment? This treatment has been a miracle for so many cancer survivors and their families.
It's the thinking that making a generic of a biologic is as easy as making a generic of valium, or vicodan, etc. It's not, and it's dangerous to even try. And very costly - it wouldn't save too much on the actual cost of the drug when the costs of doing the clinical trials (again) are factored in.
Getting it paid for is the key and Herceptin is not the only drug that falls into this category, obviously, and Genentech is not the only company that researches, discovers and manufacturers biologics. They were just the first.
Jane Hamsher is world's brighter than most on this blog, including me. She's a good source; just ask brilliant Rachel. She knows her stuff. I am not obligated to spend half the night researching. I find good trusted sources and opinions and throw in a few of my own.
Weiner's not happy with the House bill.
******************************
Phil, I was hoping you'd like the progressive dem version in IA. Better dem than a true progressive is how you sound to me. IA needs to step aside and let a more fair way of primary choosing prevail. You could be valuable in that area,Phil, if only you'd practice principles above party politics. Love ya, Doll, but you're such a staunch party man. That would be great if you'd back a true progressive.
*******************************
A scroll across MSNBC last night said that pre-existing conditions would continue until 2013. The blog was very quiet about that.
I'm not reading the bill...it'll cross my eyes. It's doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Obama is very quiet, even rumored to be favoring a *trigger,* and that many many of the dems are beholden to the insu cos. Not hard to figure out what's coming down.
S/O got to Grayson. He sounded a bit cowed and way too *happy* with the whole thing.
Thanks again, Susan for your great activism.
Information is *so* useful against hysteria. . . .
Speaking of which, you reminded me of the quest I need to go on: my blood pressure is up again, and my current Part D insurance won't cover the med I need. So since it's about to be "enrollment" time, I need to find an insurance company whose formulary will. I was watching with some amusement Wednesday as my doctor reviewed all the medication I can't take because of the side effects. . . . *she* was so frustrated I thought she was going to scream! Love that woman.
Hydrochlorothiazide I can't take because it's a sulfa drug, and I'm allergic to sulfa (anaphylactic shock)
Beta blockers ~~ immediate loss of libido
Calcium channel blockers ~~ legs swell/fluid retention
ACE inhibitors ~~ cough (most common side effect of these drugs, and enough to drive you and anyone around you absolutely nuts)
Which leaves: Angiotensin II Receptor Blockers. Which it seems virtually no Part D company wants to pay for.
Gag, found the ones who will.
- I wonder what my mother takes, she has high BP too
By Love White Castles on Oct 30, 2009 3:30 PM EDTSo do my siblings. It has passed me by so far thankfully. The real culprits, again, are the payors. But we all know that. Once this legislation is passed these things called "amendments" come into play. First things first, one day at a time and all that.
You're welcome, thanks for not letting my efforts go unnoticed. I try to bring actual information here, vs unresearched hysteria.
"I try to bring actual information here, vs unresearched hysteria."--
You certainly do and it is very much appreciated. I always learn something from your posts.
Calling Jane Hamsher's well-researched article "unresearched hysteria" is stunning in its ignorance and negative judgment.
In case some of you haven't noticed............ LOL

but you are responsible for what you bring here. But you already said you don't want to do any balanced research, so be it.
Jane can also find the answers if she so desired. I like Jane, nothing wrong with having opinions about what she thinks to be true. Right?
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Ms* Little }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Yes, Denise, I know all about Herceptin; thank you.
Man, I sure dissed her, didn't I? Told her off right to her blog face, just like she said. LOLOLOLOL
And to go searching 5 years back....wow...that's dedication!! :-)
Making a turkey today!
Discovered this turkey recipe a few years back, and it makes a huge difference in how dry the white meat is. You just separate the skin from the breast meat by running your hand between the two, then literally butter the turkey breast, but not the skin. I use garlic/pepper and basil in the butter. Start it at 475º for 20 minutes, then lower the temp to 250º and continue at 20 minutes/lb till done. This one's going to take almost five hours.
I love it that way - my favorite is with rosemary and a bit of minced garlic tucked under the skin
in how most the white meat is. Since I don't like it anyways, this method makes it actually edible for me. And now that I think of it, I *should* have tried the rosemary. (Still have some home dried from a few years ago. ~~ have to remember to plant some next year: I have a sunny side garden that seriously needs some rehabbing. . . )
sounds yummy...
I'm walking precincts tomorrow for a candidate and have a meeting on Sunday. Busy weekend.
I'm angry becuz I'm paying attention!
I'm angry the way puddle was angry at Liebermann!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, lol!, if you'd been paying attention, you'd have noticed that it was Maha who was pissed at Lieberman.
His voters knew he was a snake when they took him in, eh? Why be mad at a snake for *being* a snake?
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- Rain, rain, rain, rain
By dog soldier on Oct 30, 2009 9:01 AM EDTThe wettest October ever and more rain in sight.
The weather gurus are saying the wetter the October, the more snow we get.
The good thing..it isn't as cold.
There are so many leaves falling now, it is hard to drive on some roads without ending up in a ditch.
That Howard fellow is the greatest.