Home » The Watercooler for 10/29/09 9:00 AM
The Watercooler for 10/29/09 9:00 AM
DFA's home for a free form, open-ended discussion of what matters most to committed progressive activists.
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to continue unemployment benefits and give SS recepiants a bonus.
Every dime of this money will be spent, which increases earnings, which bring balance back to the risk/reward equation.
Thanks for those explanations dog. I'm not a student of the economy but, put simply, it is not so hard to understand.
- Geitner is in front of a House hearing about a bill
By Joan In Florida on Oct 29, 2009 10:48 AM EDTthat is intended to close some of the loopholes and deregulation that allowed huge banks to be created. I hope they succeed in passing this important legislation ASAP.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/breaking-out-of-the-billi_b_336597.html
Here are its salient features:
1. We promote accumulation of vast fortunes without limits.
2. We shun
progressive income taxes that could narrow the gap.
3. We keep most of
finance deregulated even after it has collapsed so spectacularly.
4. We let
the minimum wage atrophy.
5. We discourage unionization.
6. We let
middle class jobs disappear.
7. We allow a revolving door between public
office and high paying private sector jobs.
8. We let our public
infrastructure deteriorate.
9. We belittle government and public service.
10. We promote private gain as the best way to promote the common good.
11. We force our children to pile up debt in order to get an education.
12. We live with a porous safety net.
13. We encourage health care to be
a profit maximizing enterprise.
14. We allow institutions to become too big
to fail.
15. We bail out the largest financial institutions when they do
fail, even if that means transferring trillions to Wall Street.
16. We allow
Wall Street to use its bailout money to lobby against the public interest.
17. We let Wall Street keep its bailout-created "profits" and bonuses.
18. We have no clue if the financial sector provides any real value to our
economy.
19. We permit financial hucksters to buy up solid companies, load
them up with debt, take the cash, and then drive them into the ground.
20.
We bad-mouth as protectionist all efforts to keep jobs in this country.
21.
We don't have any serious plan for returning to a full-employment economy.
22. We live in awe of billionaires.
for providing this list of serious threats to our economy.
who put together the list - Lewis Black? sounds like him anyway. ;)
You forgot to add your normal message...
It is all Obama's fault :):):)
As I keep repeating, I'm a great fan of Obama the man, just not of some of his policies and appointments (like Tiny Tim Geithner)
All too true, sadly. Huge reason I left the banking industry. The shift in priorities was apparent.
The end of the cited article by Leopold contains a most important point that just does not seem to resonate with the majority of Americans:
Imagine what we could do if we had the courage to institute steep progressive taxes. Today, the top 400 wealthiest Americans have a combined net worth of about $1.5 trillion. Had progressive taxes reduced their wealth to "only" $100 million each, we would be able to endow every public college and university, two-year, four-year and graduate school, so that all of our children could go to school free, in perpetuity.
That is simply stunning.
Repost...
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/33523132#33523132
Kucinich reacts to House health reform bill
If this is the best we can do, then it is time to ask ourselves whether the two-party system is truly capable of representing the the American people or whether the system has been so compromised by special interests that we can't even protect the health of our own people.
I hope you aren't too pissed at my failed attempt at humor.:)
The fact the the former economy that pays decent wages to all has given way to an economy that pays the most devious or positioned is dawning on a lot of folks in Michigan.
The constant discussion is I lost my job; what new job do I retrain for?
This requires partnerships with education, business and government and quite frankly, the government can't do anything right mob rules.
Not everyone can be a nurse or orderly and there are only so many data-entry clerks needed.
The promise of a green economy is a nice idea, but implementation is still a long way off; and with it are the green jobs.
There are some things coming on-line, but nothing like the numbers needed for the long haul are in the near horizon.
The hard choices like tariffs that penalize those who exploit their labor and ours will never happen. It looks like climate change is being stuffed by the business lobby in cahoots with deniers.
The public is buying this because the educational systems gave up teaching logic and critical thinking long ago; and just want to churn out test passers.
it pertains to the Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2 years, especially the latter.
Obama and Congress have a huge job trying to change the tragic errors of those administrations and a few mistakes of the Clinton years as well.
has perpetuated some of the inequities cited by Leopold, owing to their overly lenient treatment of Wall St. in comparison with Main St.
Bernanke, Summers, Geithner and others should be held accountable.
"like tariffs that penalize those who exploit their labor and ours will never happen."---
True, but we can't penalize those jobs back to our country. It would still make more sense (dollars/cents) to pay the penalties and still have the labor done outside the US. Obama is right: The only way we get those jobs back is to force unacceptably low wages in the U.S.
Unfortunately, until the workers of China, India, Russia and former eastern bloc countries ORGANIZE, like our workers did in the 30's, 40's, they will continue to be exploited. Currently, they have no motivation to demand better pay, hours, etc., as their lives have improved SIGNIFICANTLY from this new work. My guess is their organizing efforts are at a minimum 25 years into the future.
In the meantime, we need to innovate, create new products/services here that cannot quickly be duplicated elsewhere though we'll have to be ready to move on to the next thing quickly as China will always be able to copycat in a rather short period of time.
- The only way we get those jobs back is to force unacceptably low wages in the U.S.
By Hu Jo on Oct 29, 2009 2:12 PM EDTAs I've said before, cC, Taxing the difference, and disallowing all foreign tax credits for firms that offshore jobs will bring those jobs back in a hurry. If we don't punish these scumbags, they'kll keep right on doing it.
"Taxing the difference, and disallowing all foreign tax credits for firms that offshore jobs"--
Nope. Look at what Indian, Chinese workers are paid. Sorry, facts are facts.
China, India are totally different from Russia.
What keeps the China and India governments from unravelling is a very well-off and content middle class. The newly rich never had it so good and as long as they are content, the government(s) will stay in power. The motto of screw you, I got mine is alive and well. Sinds kind of Republican, doesn't it.
Russia took the vast oil dollars made and allowed the newly powerful to run off with it. Once oil prices came back down, their economy went into the toilet. The rulers exercising malevolent power are running an instant replay of the Tsarist rule; which was never that far away anyway.
Unions are present, but they are very weak in China. China looks at things in multi-generaton time, while we look at thinks by the instant stock prices.
looks like a naval aircraft carrier coming into port in San Diego harbor. Hope it's a homecoming.
Dad was there as a Marine during WW2. I'm sure mprov has some memories of it as well.
Dad got lucky. Was called onto the Franklin, then called off with about 30 other men. It was later torpedoed. Close call.
- The Franklin was hit by kamikazee attacks several times
By dog soldier on Oct 29, 2009 1:34 PM EDTQuite a feat keeping this ship afloat.
One of the main differences between the Japanese and US Navies was the superb damage-control capability of the US Navy. During combat attacks, most hangers, fuel and ammo areas are flooded with CO2 to prevent fires.
The last Franklin atack happened while the rear hanger deck was full of planes and it burned very badly. I had an uncle on the Sante Fe that helped with crew rescue of wounded or blown into the sea. He was amazed that something that badly damaged survived and actually made it back to NYC under it's own power.
I know it had quite a history. I did a bit of reading about it but I always like to know more. Dad did his duty, but he sure did get seasick so it's pretty good he didn't have to go out on the big ones too often.
Once he told me about a time he went up in a plane and the pilot started to do barrel rolls and other stunts. Bet the pilot asked first the next time LOL. We all have queasy stomachs in our family except mom.
to make a massive number of middle class jobs in a short period of time. (besides we save the planet)
will continue on for years and most of which could not be sent overseas.
~
Much more stimulus money should be released soon to rebuilt those old dangerous bridges, many of which have been "repaired" in a piecemeal fashion leaving them still dangerous to use. Then there are those crumbling highways that need repaving--constantly--whose are permanent and semi-permanent government jobs or contracts. Solid stuff for employment.
If we had a jobs program focused on infrastructure improvement that would employ thousands of Americans...and god knows we NEED the improvement!
Fisker Automotive could create as many as 2,500 jobs in the next five years as it renovates and reopens the Boxwood Road plant near Newport to build plug-in hybrid electric cars.
The startup automaker announced its plans this morning at an event at the former General Motors factory, with officials including Vice President Joe Biden and Gov. Jack Markell in attendance.
Irvine, Calif.-based Fisker plans to use some of the proceeds from a $528 million U.S. government loan at the Boxwood plant, idle since July when General Motors ended production there. Fisker signed a letter of intent with Motors Liquidation Co. to purchase the plant for $18 million. Motor Liquidation is the legal entity disposing of unwanted GM assets in bankruptcy court.
The company expects to spend at least $175 million revamping the Boxwood plant to build a family-oriented sedan under development. Production would not begin again at the 62-year-old factory until 2012.
Fisker’s first car, the Karma, a luxury sedan with a starting price of $87,900, is being built in Finland by contract automaker Valmet Automotive. The company’s next car -- known as “Project Nina” -- will be a family sedan that’s expected to sell for about $40,000 after a $7,500 federal tax credit.
The company expects to eventually make both models at the Boxwood plant.
Boxwood was selected for its size, production capacity, world-class paint facilities, access to shipping ports, rail lines and available skilled workforce, officials said.
“This is a major step toward establishing America as a leader of advanced vehicle technology,” said Fisker CEO, Henrik Fisker, in a statement. “Wilmington is perfect for high quality, low volume production and will soon be the proud builder of world-class, fuel-efficient Fisker plug-in hybrids.”
UAW workers will be employed to build these cars:))
Get Japanese or German management........................
"Get Japanese or German management........................"----
See. It's statements like this that give bloggers a bad name. This is why the *pajama blogging* moniker. People write just cuz they can without paying attention to facts. Rather they rely on their own unfounded biases.
Henrik Fisker, the company's CEO is a Dane. You might want to google his company, his credentials...
Management is the key........German and Japanese (or foreign if that makes you happy) engineering, quality and workmanship transcends anything produced here.............of havent you heard of GM, Chrysler, etc.......
Google Michael Moore "Roger and Me"...............
Sorry to disappoint you cC, but most of my comments are very REVELANT :-)
**********************
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of
battle.
REVELANT
I'm sure most of your comments are revelant - but I couldn't find that one in the dictionary!
oh, I get it - you 'revel' in everything you write! lol!
- I was eating lunch when I read this and almost choked
By Love White Castles on Oct 29, 2009 5:26 PM EDTThanks for the smiles. And you were right, the lesson learned is - duh - don't go hiking alone.
Two coyotes have attacked and killed a 19-year-old folk singer in Nova Scotia, eastern Canada, officials say.
Taylor Mitchell, a promising musician from Toronto, died in hospital after the animals pounced as she hiked alone in Cape Breton Highlands National Park.
I use to camp in the deserts of California quite often on weekends or vacations. Coyotes could always be heard in the distance or close by. I never thought of them as dangerous.
Once on a trip back from Vegas to Santa Ana through the deserts, we spotted a coyote walking along the highway. He looked so emaciated and starving. We stopped and I got out and threw him a sandwich we had in the car. He ran away of course while we were stopped there--probably scared to death of me and the sandwich.
I hear them at times as well. How sad this story but the lesson is obvious.
One and 1/2 blocks south of our home, runs SR 40 and what has just been designated as
Florida Black Bear Scenic Byway State and Federal Corridor Celebration
Tallahassee, Florida – The U.S. Secretary of Transportation has given national designation to four Florida Scenic Highways as part of the America’s Byways prestigious collection. The Florida Scenic Highways receiving the National Scenic Byways designation are the Florida Black Bear Scenic Byway on SR 40 in the Ocala National Forest. . .
Just to the east of our house is The St. John's River designated An American Heritage River.
Coyotes are very timid and stay away from humans. Either they were starved out by civilization, or our animals are starting to attack us BECUZ we're destroying their habitats. Animals communicate with each other very well, even across species They know we're a threat, which we are. Our arrogance has led us to believe that animals are expendable, dumb and to be exploited... or put in cages or chained up all day. We're bent on destroying not only ourselves but the beautiful animal kingdom. It's heartbreaking and will lead to our own demise.
And yet, when attacks like these occur, the animals are always blamed. I don't believe she provoked them, but there's a deeper reason behind the attack. And then we become frightened of them, which can lead to blood lust.
We're *training* our beloved animals to fear us. We're destroying the land they need to survive and flourish. The answer, IMO, is not to control the animal population by killing them off or destroying their land. The answer is HUMAN POPULATION CONTROL. ...contraceptives, tubals, vasectomies. If people won't take responsibility, well then, bring on the seed corn.
Well, that's my rant. I love animals and could live just fine w/o the radical fundis, with their 14th century ideas, roving the planet, indoctrinating others. Huge Catholic families are also a big problem.
Humph, Grump!
"I don't believe she provoked them, but there's a deeper reason behind the attack. And then we become frightened of them, which can lead to blood lust.
We're *training* our beloved animals to fear us. We're destroying the land they need to survive and flourish. The answer, IMO, is not to control the animal population by killing them off or destroying their land. The answer is HUMAN POPULATION CONTROL. ...contraceptives, tubals, vasectomies. If people won't take responsibility, well then, bring on the seed corn."----
Geez. Try chamomile tea. What a hysterical response.^
Last night we got blamed for the car bombing in Peshawar. . . .
You keep missing the wholistic picture of what we're all doing to each other.
What you wrote is common knowledge, well understood and discussed.
just deep sadness.
I wish you could tell the difference.
Meditators usually are not hysterical, anymore than coyotes are aggressive. :-)
I also feel sorry for the mate, now alone. I believe they mate for life, but am unsure about that. They have closely knit loving families.
Now please tell me why any human being is worth more than any animal, Without animals we die. With humans, THEY die.
Witness more and more shark attacks close to shore.........or maybe its nature saying to the so called dominant species(for now) on the planet.,"weve had enough".........
There is a natural order to things..........maybe wolves dont like being hunted by fools in helicopters with hi powered rifles............
Turn the page to a more even encounter between species and we see the result, regretable as it is.
and change it to "I". you have a habit of claiming that 'we' think, say and do a lot of things - but in this case as so many others, you would be wrong about that.
and you obviously don't understand the pack mentality.
Enjoy that intellectual tour de force tag-team of seashell and Mike.
You're outmatched, folks;)
THE SNAKE
On her way to work one morning
Down the path along side the lake
A tender hearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake
His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew
"Poor thing," she cried, "I'll take you in and I'll take care of you"
"Take me in tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in, tender woman," sighed the snake
She wrapped him all cozy in a comforter of silk
And laid him by her fireside with some honey and some milk
She hurried home from work that night and soon as she arrived
She found that pretty snake she'd taken to had bee revived
"Take me in, tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in, tender woman," sighed the snake
She clutched him to her bosom, "You're so beautiful," she cried
"But if I hadn't brought you in by now you might have died"
She stroked his pretty skin again and kissed and held him tight
Instead of saying thanks, the snake gave her a vicious bite
"Take me in, tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in, tender woman," sighed the snake
"I saved you," cried the woman
"And you've bitten me, but why?
You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die"
"Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin
"You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in
"Take me in, tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in, tender woman," sighed the snake
but we still need to look out for the welfare of snakes--with caution of course:))
When I lived in MX, I had coral snakes, boas, rattlers as neighbors, as well as more harmless snakes. And god only knows what lurked in the jungle right out of town. A coral snake ran right across my toe one day and kept on going. They don't strike. They have to unhinge their jaws and chew....
Life is risky and there is no safety.
We persist in thinking that if we just kill enuf animals or people, we'd be safe. Gov'ts like to perpetuate that myth.
And then a heart attack takes you down. Or a stroke. Or in the case of my sister and bro-in-law, a plane crash. Janine was 39, Tom 41.
Carpe Diem!
- Coyotes are killers. You just need to look at their teeth to see where evolution puts them on the food chain.
By Phil Specht on Oct 29, 2009 3:00 PM EDTsmarter than the average shark too, but usually hunt smaller prey (which they rip to shreds)
Joan that looks like a bass fisherman's heaven to me, wish it was closer.
I miss the boating here (we sold the boat in anticipation of a house sale) but I was forced to give up fishing with others because I always insisted on returning the catch safely back to their natural habitat. That's not too popular when one is with avide fisherpeople who insist on eating the catch.
Let's all take a peek at our own teeth. What should WE be eating.
Coyotes are not killers of humans.
I expect that hunting isn't allowed there. They weren't being pushed out of their habitat.
Coyotes, for all the romance about them, are *not* nice animals, and never have been. They'll kill a newborn lamb just for the tongue ~~ just like vultures will kill the lambs just for their eyes.
And sea, you *are* hysterical, thereby disproving your belief that meditators can't be hysterical.
Last night you asked how WE would feel if foreigners did "this" to us? And showed a couple of pictures of the aftermath of the Peshawar bombing. You didn't lament on a generalized human beings are taking the planet apart. If you wish to be understood, then *make* yourself understood, don't just stant around emoting, and tearing your hair out, and dumping ashes on your sackcloth. Edit your behavior.
- Before I went into the service, we lived on a farm and raised chickens and feeder pigs.
By dog soldier on Oct 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDTCoyotes are smart opportunists and will go after your animals in very creative ways. BTW…so are badgers, weasels, hawks, raccoons, etc. The worst are wild dogs. We lost more animals to stray dogs then wild critters. We used to shoot stray dogs on sight.
I spent a lot of time tracking animals and learned the intelligence and survival instincts wild animals have. On a more perverse note, this ability was handy chasing Charlie thru the weeds.
I wish more of the city peeps who "solve" their puppy population problem by dropping them off (so, in their minds, the country people will have to care for them) realized what happens to them. It'd be kinder to drop them off at a local shelter. Their deaths would be enormously easier on them.
the generalization, especially since I do that a lot. :-)
I think I expect too much of some of you.
Are you the snake or the nice woman? LOL
- We have a "family" of foxes that visit our backyard
By Joan In Florida on Oct 29, 2009 3:26 PM EDTmost every evening. They grab a slice or two of bread I throw out for several raccoons that were juveniles abandoned here several years ago and keep reappearing.
I have witnessed these foxes standing two feet from opossums, coons, and neighbor cats, never once looking to attack them. They have, of course, all become too tame and I should wean them for their own sake and for the future when I will not be here. If only I could, I would miss them all. Shame on me.
The Florida Black Bears have never, in recorded history, attacked anyone. And so I suspect that is why, in addition to prior hunting, they became to be listed on the Federal Endangered List and presently protected. The hunters still salivate at the thought of being able to once again hunt these magnificent gentle creatures. I hope they never get that chance.
He says he doesn't mind if he doesn't get re-elected in his very Republican district.
He is there to do what he can to make things happen that should happen--if he can. He certainly doesn't need the job, he is quite wealthy.
He is much admired for his efforts and his qualities.
Source: Talking Points Memo
Pelosi Unveils House Health Care Bill
Ben Frumin | October 29, 2009, 10:42AM
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is unveiling the House health care reform bill this morning. In her opening remarks, she said, "Today we are about to deliver on a promise of making affordable quality health care available for all Americans, laying a foundation for a brighter future for generations to come."
Pelosi said the bill will "insure 36 million more Americans" and "will not add one dime to the deficit" -- covering 96 percent of Americans and costing less than $900 billion. The bill includes a public option and will end "discrimination for preexisting medical conditions."
She said the plan will be put online "for all Americans to see."
Early in her remarks, a there was some loud off-camera noise -- apparently from protesters nearby.
Read more: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/pelosi-to-un...
Coyotes, for all the romance about them, are *not* nice animals, and never have been. They'll kill a newborn lamb just for the tongue ~~ just like vultures will kill the lambs just for their eyes.
*************************
We kill lambs, horribly, just to satisfy our inner hungers.
Like we kill elephants for their tusks, gorillas for their hands and feet or Muslims for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Tell me again...which is the superior life form? :-)
Just like all animal species and individuals within the species are not all the same.
For humans, it is a matter of education for some, others may always be predatory in some ways.
that sea thinks she's the only one who's different - special meditaor that she is and all that.
yup, she's special and misunderstood. sad thing is, it's her very own words which have put her in that 'misunderstood' category.
See. Another hysterical statement. If I were a lamb, and had a choice, I'd sure rather die at a slaughter house than at a coyote's teeth or a vulture's beak.
And, as my jc-made bumper sticker says: Plants are ethical beings, eat an animal instead. If needing food to survive equals "satisfy our inner hungers" then every living thing, except plants, qualitfies.
Perhaps you should go lecture the Creator about his loused up system?
And sea, you *are* hysterical, thereby disproving your belief that meditators can't be hysterical.
This is your opinion. There's a difference between being passionate and being hysterical.
Hysterical people can't possibly dance tango..(an inner calm is absolutely necessary)... but passionate ones can.
But please feel free to tell me what and who you think I am. lol
It amuses me. :-)
http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/29/afghanistan-a-whole-new-approach/
This demands a change from an offensive to a defensive grand strategy.
Turning to NGOs for help would bring a host of organizations experienced in solving problems centered on the people in need.
The militaries ride a light shotgun.
We never tried this in VN because we didn't care about the plight of the local folks. Bombing is so much easier then actually working with the local folks. It takes little cultural knowledge; just need to read a map and talk on a radio.
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- Great posts form cC about the credit risk from Bill Gross
By dog soldier on Oct 29, 2009 10:26 AM EDTIt is apparent that Gross is right on. Most of the market run up in the '00's was due to asset valuation, and not from sales.
This is also an unintended consequence of folks flooding the markets with 401K dollars. This is unbounded money ( it was esentially loaned to fund managers to make as much money as possible) that partly fueled the asset expansion engine (as well as foreign dollars).
To do that, risk was essentially ignored. But it is not nice to ignore risk. So try to make it go away. But risk never goes away; it shows up in higher insurance premiums. To counter that, the FED flooded the markets with dollars and made loans at ultra cheap rates. That is why Fannie/Freddie are in such bad shape.
Until asset pricing reflects the true value of assets, the economy will suffer.
How do we know when that happens?
When the markets, and especially the S&P, drop or do not rise as fast as earnings do. This means that risk is rentering the system as assets are being priced accordingly.
Which is why a lot of sooth-sayers are calling for a S&P at below 900 which prices assets at their real value.
I hope what I added makes sense. The fall in housing prices was a return to the real value of housing.