I'm saying Dean is first.

8:51 AM EST

Si se peude !:

http://news.ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=716008

Arizona's Rep. Grijalva Switches to Obama from Edwards

January 29th, 2008 @ 5:52am by Associated Press

Democratic U.S. Rep. Raul Grijalva of Arizona is endorsing Barack Obama after earlier backing John Edwards in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

...

The third-term congressman, whose southern Arizona district includes Yuma and parts of Tucson, is the second prominent Arizona Democrat to endorse Obama in the immediate run-up to the state's Feb. 5 presidential primary.

Gov. Janet Napolitano endorsed Obama on Jan. 11 after being courted by Obama and rival Hillary Rodham Clinton. Since then, Napolitano has campaigned for Obama in Arizona, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico.

Clinton has led Obama and Edwards in the first of two recent polls but the margin between Clinton and Obama decreased in the second.

Grijalva had endorsed Edwards on May 3, saying the former senator from North Carolina ``has shown principled leadership on the way in Iraq and on economic opportunity in America.''

In the statement explaining his switch to Obama, Grijalva said it ``was not a repudiation of Senator Edwards, rather the understanding that Senator Barack Obama is the future.''

``The best opportunity to win in November rests with Senator Obama,'' Grijalva added. ``I am proud to support Senator Obama as we move forward toward the nomination. This election is not merely about moving the pieces around in Washington D.C., but to fundamentally change the rules of the game. I am proud to help Senator Obama work toward that change.''

...

 Tucson native and the son of an immigrant laborer from Mexico, Griljalva served on the Tucson Unified School District board and the Pima County Board of Supervisors before being elected to Congress in 2002.

Good firsties, Tom, and thanks for the heads up!

8:53 AM EST

the power of uttering "Dean is first" --

Tom's post remains first

Ole !

Morning Folks,

Yes, Tom, I second your first.  Howard Dean has been a catalyst, a leader, someone who lives his commitment to the democratic process, and Barack Obama's supporters have learned from the Dean campaign.  Thank you, Howard and Jim and all those supporters of Howard who have continued to be active and knowledgeable, who care deeply about this country and what it stands for.

I remember the shock my parents felt when President Eisenhower lied to the American people about the U2 incident, that it was a weather plane that had gone off course in Russia, not a spy plane.

There was Joe McCarthy who lied and hurt many people, but somehow a president lying to the American people was egregious, a betrayal.  That Joe McCarthy lied was a travesty but not on the same level as a President lying to the people. 

I listened to NPR's analysis of the SOTU speech of Bush's, and it was one lie after another.  It still feels like a betrayal of everything we stand for, and Bush and his administration have lied to us for seven years.  What a fall from aspiring grace. 

Dan Froomkin from yesterday, somewhat superseded, but you can be the judge.

===================
Is Anyone Listening?
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Monday, January 28, 2008; 1:34 PM

President Bush has a lot to accomplish in tonight's State of the Union address. He needs to lay out a plausible agenda for his final year in office, justify a war that the American people overwhelmingly oppose, stave off a recession and persuade the nation and the world that he's not been a colossal failure.

But his biggest challenge may be getting anyone to pay attention in the first place.

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

From the last thread...
Judy,
Answer this truthfully..
Who is the biggest liar?
Billary or McCain?
McCain is a nut job, will keep us in wars forever, and sold his soul to the regious right. McCain acknowledges that and more
Hillary has done even worse by selling us out to the medical and drug industries, by ball-faced lies about Obama, about defending her war vote until it was no longer possible. McCain is nuts; Hillary is about 3 feet lower then whale crap; can't get much lower then that.

Dean has a part in this drame. As the DNC chair, can't he urge all delegates from Ohio and Michigan be decertified and can vote for anyone they want?

Hillary is trying to get delegate votes that should never be cast. Just another slimy episode for the slimiest of candidates.

And just wait until the former issues are brought up such as whitewater, travelgate, monicagate and all the other sleazy episodes. There will probably be a parade of new Bubba bimboes that show up; either real or fake but they will be believed.

One of my choices who is no longer in the running is still quietly working behind the scenes, and has been for some time.

Go Chris!

======================
January 29, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
Investing in America
By BOB HERBERT

On a quiet Wednesday morning last August, Senators Chris Dodd and Chuck Hagel held a news conference in Washington to discuss what they felt was a critical issue: the nation’s deteriorating infrastructure.

The press was not impressed. Only a handful of reporters showed up to listen to their contention that a real crisis was at hand. That evening, during rush hour, the Interstate 35W bridge over the Mississippi River in Minneapolis collapsed, plunging vehicles 60 feet into the river and killing 13 people.

There is usually not much about infrastructure stories to turn readers or viewers on. But the catastrophe in New Orleans and the bridge collapse in Minneapolis are tragic evidence of the peril that goes hand in hand with neglect of the nation’s roads, bridges, levees, transit systems, water treatment facilities and so on.

[...]
The country could do itself a favor by paying more attention to the efforts of Senator Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat who is chairman of the Banking Committee, and Senator Hagel, a Nebraska Republican. They have co-sponsored legislation that would create a national infrastructure bank to promote and help finance large-scale projects across the nation.

Part of their mission is to generate a sense of urgency. In an interview yesterday, Senator Dodd told me: “At a time when we’re worried about rising unemployment rates and declining confidence in this country, infrastructure projects have the dual effect of putting people to work — and usually at pretty good salaries and wages — while also creating a sense of optimism, of investing in the future.”

[...]
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/29/opinio...

Deans bigger part is to keep pushing the 50 state campaign.
If we can get at least 61 seats in the Senate, we can stop the madness by any President.
We need the extra vote to offset Lieberman.

...


Dean has a part in this drame. As the DNC chair, can't he urge all delegates from Ohio and Michigan be decertified and can vote for anyone they want?

...

+++

dog soldier -

Don't you mean "all delegates from Florida and Michigan" ?

Oddly, there is a new thread.

oops....sorry rdorgan....yep...Fla and Mich...

dog, if that's your take on Hillary (even though she's not my candidate, it is not mine), then I guess that you'll have no choice than to stomach 'Cain. But you'll have one heck of an ache, I'm afraid.

As for the delegates, according to what I heard ... and reported on ... from my meeting Dean last week, no one candidate WILL get the delegates from states that voted without DNC imprimatur. However, there will likely be some sort of compromise that gets those delegates credentialed so that they can vote at the convention.

Like you, I do not like what Hillary is trying to do about the delegates. But from what I understood, she will not succeed.

Judy,
I know perfectly well what a MacCain and Hillary administrations mean. JM will be hard to stomach, but HC more so.
There is a silver lining for having HC in the race. It may energize Dems against her. The same thing will happen if she is the candidate; the right will be energized against her and will be helped by people like my family.
The DNC and DLC need the take a good hard look at what happens if HC gets the nod. Dean can do a slap-down by announcing the decertification of Fla and Mich delegates as soon as possible.
Dean has to be neutral, but Repubs always have a "think tank" announce scenenarios that are favorable to one candidate or other.
Lay it out there so there is no ambiquity about what a disaster the results will be if HC gets the nod.

This will also energize the congressional races if everyone understands that whichever candidate wins, executive powers will be diminished.

OK, its taken awhile for my Presidential picks but Ill stick with Mccain getting the Republican nod and.....................Hillary Clinton getting the call for the Democrats.......with Mccain winning in November. Thats all.....................

9:26 AM EST

pro-choice supporter Prof. Helen Halpin of California reacts to Hillary Clinton's attack on Barack :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJK3x66gaww

The DNC should get rid of the super delegates. There is no reason why sitting congressfolks deserve a vote that is more important then my vote. They do not have any learned ability that exceeds anyone else. By having this votes, the incumbents stay in power. If Dems want to be a party that is centered outside DC, then get the sitting power out of DC.
Of course, we all know that Dems and Repubs feed at the same trough so changing the dynamic won't be easy; but it is necessary.

9:28 AM EST 

19.
Sitka
Tue, 01/29/08

Reply to this

TOPEKA, Kan. -- More than just a trip to his Kansas roots, Sen. Barack Obama's visit to his grandfather's home town Tuesday is part of a broad and unorthodox strategy to build support in Republican-dominated states.

Sounds like SOMEBODY has been reading the Howard Dean playbook.

But he'll never get credit, of course.

Would it kill them to acknowledge Dean's prescient genius just once? 

+++

Sitka -

Exactly, Obama is building on the foundation that Dean built (rather than doing that North East coast/West coast/Midwest strategy and ignoring everything in-between).

The CM at one point liked Dean, until they took him seriously. Then it became something else, especially when Dean did not bow down to them in their self-patting importance as the Fourth Estate.

A 50-state strategy and a slight irritation to the CM, are two minds IMO that think alike --

-- Dean and Obama.

I have vented enough for one day.
I would like to see a Dem candidate announce a stronger GI Bill that will ease vets back into the work place. Also a massive increase in medical and psychological funding for returning vets.

I'll tell one more war story...
All combat vets suffer psychological damage because killing folks is not normal. That is why unwind time is so important. Even when we were in heavy combat in VN, we had time off to relax. The goal is to keep the troops busy in their down time. That is why grunts dig ditches, clean things, march around, KP, etc; the general nonsense all soldiers hate, but is necessary to force them to detox from war.
In Iraq, there is no downtime. Troops are back in action before they have even started recovery from the previous action. They get tired, sloppy and make mistakes. IN VN, when we made mistakes, lots of folks died.
With a lot of services being farmed out, troops don't do the detox stuff anymore. If they can, they can play video games but they aren't doing manual labor that works off their stress.

It sounds absurd when I agree to even consider supporting a candidate who has no problem with this; well as far as we know, HC has no trouble with it either.

8:37 AM EST

Obama saves Richardson:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/29/richardsons_choice.html

By Jose Antonio Vargas

SANTA FE, N.M. -- Gov. Bill Richardson's phone has been ringing off the hook. Sen. Hillary Clinton called Sunday night. That was followed by a call from former president Bill Clinton, then a call from Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, who's supporting Clinton. Sen. Barack Obama called twice Monday morning.

And, at around 4 p.m. Monday, as we entered Richardson's office on the fourth floor of the state Capitol here, Richardson was finishing up a 15-minute phone conversation.

"That was Teddy," Richardson told The Trail. Sen. Ted Kennedy, who alongside his niece Caroline and son Patrick endorsed Obama at a packed rally at American University just hours before, is scheduled to stump for the Illinois senator in northern New Mexico Wednesday night. Kennedy is urging Richardson to support Obama.

...

In 1982, when Richardson ran for Congress for the second time -- he lost two years before -- Kennedy flew to Santa Fe and campaigned for him. "That might have been the reason I was elected," Richardson said. And he said he likes Obama, telling a story about how Obama saved him during one of last year's Democratic debates:

"I had just been asked a question -- I don't remember which one -- and Obama was sitting right next to me. Then the moderator went across the room, I think to Chris Dodd, so I thought I was home free for a while. I wasn't going to listen to the next question. I was about to say something to Obama when the moderator turned to me and said, 'So, Gov. Richardson, what do you think of that?' But I wasn't paying any attention! I was about to say, 'Could you repeat the question? I wasn't listening.' But I wasn't about to say I wasn't listening. I looked at Obama. I was just horrified. And Obama whispered, 'Katrina. Katrina.' The question was on Katrina! So I said, 'On Katrina, my policy . . .' Obama could have just thrown me under the bus. So I said, 'Obama, that was good of you to do that.'"

...

Michael,
You started in the middle and have sunk to the bottom..
9:46 EST

My concern with all this Florida/Michigan drama going in is that the wider audience will take Clinton's side - not understanding that she's breaking rules that she agreed to. She's framing as wanting all these voices to be heard. Excuse me, Hillary.

Mike - If McCain doesn't win Florida today - he's finished. If he wins - there probably is no stopping in no matter how much of Romney's childrens' inheritance he spends.

sb/ no stopping him not *in*.

Hi dog and thanks.....its 9.49 am Tuesday..........I think the Obama thing will wear off soon, sorta like any fad or new type lingerie............already in my own polling Ive done to certain NE states, Democrats are saying Hillary or else.............Mccain.  Obama must scare them for some reason they would not give...................

I think people will think twice now about Obaam and the unity thing (some people just dont want to be unified with ever Tom, Dick and harry) and will vote safe with Hillary in the primaries and the Obama story will come crashing down.............thats the way I see it....what happenss after that is another story.

January 20, 2004:

"We will not quit now or ever. We'll earn our country back for ordinary Americans.

" . . . .

"Now, in my generation was the last time I saw all this stuff going on with people your all age, under 30 years old.

"Now, when I was your age -- when I was your age, we did change two presidents and change the foreign policy of the United States of America.

"Now, the only difference is it took six years. And we've got six months to go before we're going to do it here.

"This is the changing of the generations, the passing of the torch to the new generation. It is your generation. And it's your generation that's fueling this campaign because you know that the half trillion-dollar deficit this president is piling up [is] going to be billed to you and your children, because of the terrible damage this president is doing to the environment are going to be things that you're going to have to live with.

"And we're going to change that. And you have the power to change that. And we are starting right tonight.

"We have just begun to fight. We have just begun to fight."

mary vb
Tue, 01/29/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi Mary and thanks.  You may be right..sad that politics is the way it is in this country.......I somehow get this feeling about Obama like i did with Dean in 2004, but hillary, like Kerry will take it.............we shall see.  Its 9.56am

Mike wrote "OK, its taken awhile for my Presidential picks but Ill stick with Mccain getting the Republican nod and.....................Hillary Clinton getting the call for the Democrats.......with Mccain winning in November."

I'll take that bet.  It will be Obama/Romney.  Say it out loud.  It sounds like a Hindu spiritual leader.  No Republican will win in November.

However, McCain would pose the most formidable threat to Democrats because, considering he is without question the most conservative of the candidates running for the Republican nomination, Democrats and Independents think he is a conciliatory, straight talking maverick, and Republicans think he is an appeaser.  He isn't any of those things, but conservatives are almost the mirror image of dog soldier:  they might even vote for Clinton before they'd vote for McCain, so he's nonstarter.

28

You are laughable.

Obama is not a fad.

Bet your polling was scientific.

Judy I'm with you and Howard and will of coarse work very hard to elect Hillary if she gets the nomination. but it will demand a lot more work because she unifies the Republicans and energies them and carries enough baggage that it will take alot more effort to elect her than either of the other two.

I hope voters on Feb 5th do the right thing.

What is maddening about Clinton's foray into Florida is that if all had honored their word it would have been a vote much like a national primary where the network free coverage is more important than the campaign and would have been a fair enough test that some accomodation could have been made to seat the delegates, maybe have them vote last or on the second round. Now she has made Howard's work that much more difficult which this whole Florida fiasco seems centered around (by the leadership of Florida) an anti Dean pro Clinton agenda that reveals what would be coming should she win the nomination.

I backed Howard as much as for what he represents for the party as who he is as a person though both are special.

That will be shoved aside if Clinton wins the nomination and all that we fought for will have to be re-gained.

McCain is the War Party so I will be doing everything to stop his win. 

My first choice is Edwards because of his war exit and medical plans. After that Obama because his positions on the war and medical plans are not as strong as Edwards.
All the candidates have cast votes I disagree with, so in theory, none are worthy of being nominated.
I will work very, very hard is Edwards or Obama get the nomination.

I don't think Obama is a flash-in-the-pan. He has solid support and is getting the "change movement" benefit. After years of division, we need to pull together and become one country again (sounds like an Edwards line). Obama does this the best. There will be changes to remove some of the unfair advantage the rich have. I can support his policies and positions. He does the nuts and bols thing very well.

10:08 AM EST

s m
Tue, 01/29/08

...

+++

s m -

With a bouncing blog like we got here, just a suggestion, don't just use numbers to respond to, since the numbers change over time.

Huckabee is the key to a McCain/Huckabee ticket without him they lose.

9:12 CST

10:10 AM EST

Michael Ellis
Tue, 01/29/08

...thats the way I see it....what happenss after that is another story.

+++

Zounds !

What a breathe of jounalistic authority -- almost Chronkitish or Murrowian in it's fathoming of what is going on in America right now !

Michael, I can't wait until your next book comes out !

It's a fictional work, right !?  

Thanks rd, I didn't realize the numbers changed.

As Phil said, a McCain/Huckabee ticket wins.
The race with Obama will be a good one and it depends whom the VP nomination is. The VP nominee needs to have strengths that offest BOs weaknesses and not reduce seats in the Senate. So his VP should be a foreign policy heavyweight who knows their way around Capital Hill as the VPs job is to get legislation thru Congress.
Edwards loses to McCain and Clinton gets beaten as bad as Carter.
However, any Dem beasts Romney, Rudy and Paul fairly easily.

10:27

10:25 am

Sequence check

I think Phil is right about Hillary being a uniter of sorts - uniting the Republicans. I rec'd an email from a good friend - they are Indies (former Republicans) and they said they are caucusing for Obama in Colorado. If Hillary wins the nomination - they'll vote Republican and they don't care who that nominee is. Hillary the Uniter.

KUNSTLER ON SOTU

http://www.kunstler.com/

One thing you have to say about George W. Bush: he's consistent. He's never articulated the strategic purpose of our presence in Iraq, and last night he once again framed it in childish terms -- a struggle for democracy. It's no such thing, of course. It's about maintaining influence in the part of the world where most of the remaining oil is, and making sure the Straits of Hormuz and the Suez Canal are kept open.

Other than that, what you see is the exhausted executive of a government completely lacking in political imagination. Events drive the state of the union now, not personalities.

10:28AM

10:30 AM EST

Two new threads? This is the only one I see. This is a semi-driveby.

1. rdorgan - brown sugar frosted.

2. FL voters -- NO on the Amendment to our Constitution. Reason?

For = Crist, C of C, Board of Realtors, etc.
Against = AFL/CIO, Firefighters, Organization of City Gov'ts, Teacher's Assoc.

I owe you a link but must get to class.

ttfn

Obama is fresh enough that Feb 5th will be good for him, and John Edwards appeals to enough tradtional party activists who care about issues like health care and poverty to eat into the totals that would otherwise accrue to Clinton in a two way race. a very poor showing by edwards and Clinton ends up being the nominee, and it is not because Edwards supporters like Clinton, but if they were Obama supporters they would already be there right now even if in late states it does become a two person contest they will go with the more progressive. Right now Edwards helps Obama by denying Clinton delegates, and if they weren't calculating delegates Clinton wouldn't be pulling her Florida stunt. 

Annilow wrote "Two new threads? This is the only one I see."

A new thread about Nancy Skinner got swept off with about a dozen comments, presumably because it unfairly cast Mike Carroll's thread in its shadow.  I think it will reappear anon.

STATE OF OUR CORRUPT UNION

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bruce_k__080129_the_state_of_our_cor.htm

The things that stood out most in Bush's last (thank god) State of the Union speech last night were the ties he and Cheney were wearing. One was red and the other blue. Someone gets paid to coordinate their wardrobe.

Nancy Pelosi had on a faded purple dress and alternated from jumping up and clapping for various Bush statements, particularly the ones about we are going to kick terrorists behinds, to then slumping down in her seat looking bored and half asleep.

For those of you who didn't watch here is what you missed:

Bush promised the nation he would "stay on offense" which of course means more war.

The economy is entering a period of "uncertainty." Thus Congress should make "tax relief" permanent for the rich.

He threatened Iran again.

He pointed out our "hero troops' in the audience.

We are "spreading the hope of freedom" around the world. This of course means we are using our military to bust the chops of countries not submitting to the authority of corporate globalization.

Then he smiled his way through a mind numbing list of his old standards:

So all in all the whole Bush speech was a bore and another sad moment for America.

Why don't we ever see one Democrat stand up and say, "Bush you are full of shit!" That would be the real state of the union. 

McCain/Huckabee keeps their coalition together and would be especially potent against Clinton, though not unbeatable, much less so against Edwards because it just leaves the evangelical appeal and cancels the populism, just like McCain cancels anything Hillary has gained by being pro War Party because he is the five star general in it. Obama/Edwards beats McCain/Huckabee; Obama/Clark would work well too maybe better because you have the stars plus a populist appeal. will women stay home without one on the ticket somewhere the question? 

Another eason HC looses to McCain is where do independent voters go?
Indy's will not support HC as she is the OLD DLC which is hated. Do they go woth McCain as indys seem to doing now?
If wach part has about 35% of the populace, that leaves the uncommitted 30%.
Which way do they break?
Against HC, they go with McCain.
Against BO they break Dem.
Against JE, it is iffy at best.

Hillary would defeat Romney because he is vulnerable to that kind of politics and battleground state tactics but she would have to have someone credible on the ticket about ending the job loss that globalization has inflicted on Ohio and without winning Ohio she can't win(non DLC). McCain is old enough for shuffleboard and retired military so if he can't carry Florida, I agree he's dead. I'd figure he will win going away though

10:52 EST

my reference to shuffleboard was a joke, Florida oldsters, put down that cane

That was a pathetic speech last night. stunned silence would have been more fitting

Its 8.54 pm Tuesday..............

11:09 AM EST

For what it's worth, a AOL poll (if you want to vote in it):

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/straw-poll/

Its 8.54 pm Tuesday..............  

~~~~~it is 10:20CST A.M. in my time machine, I took the poll and rdorgan needs to put the word out to his Obamabuds thay are behind

Road and rail links have been cut, thwarting tens of millions of travellers trying to return home.

Premier Wen Jiaboa went to one of the worst-hit provinces and told would-be travellers the trains would run Reports so far say more than 50 people have been killed in the cold, 25 when a bus slid from an icy road in Guizhou.

~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll quit b*tching about my weather although I wouldn't want to slide in a ditch and have to walk far here either. back into it I go

Phil,
Nice and warm in W. Mich today at 42 and raining. Switching to snow and tonight will go down to near zero with CF to -20. Should get about a foot of snow on top of the rain.

11:36

wind speeds west of Indianapolis could blow a truck off the road

speaking of Global Warming.

We have been warned of how the extreme weather changes will affect us through lack of rain, sunshine, molds, disease, increased insects and life that threatens food supply, etc.


Now since Texas has been receiving incredible amounts of rain and experiencing severe flooding in areas they usually don't have, they are now experiencing a rat infestation. NO sh!t. UGH.

Apparently the severe flooding is bringing rats out of their normal environment and now life above ground is spreading. A co worker of hubby's did not know this until he went to check on his home that's up for sale, being he has moved to NM. They're eating through his eaves and got in to his home. Upon first arriving and discovering this, he capture 7 rats the very next day.

I think Phil is right about Hillary being a uniter of sorts - uniting the Republicans. I rec'd an email from a good friend - they are Indies (former Republicans) and they said they are caucusing for Obama in Colorado. If Hillary wins the nomination - they'll vote Republican and they don't care who that nominee is. Hillary the Uniter.

if those people vote rethug for that reason then they have no sense. if they can't see what has happened to this country and then vote rethug. they should be shipped to an island somewhere.

really

60. Phil, we had such incredible winds lastnight, it sounded and felt like hurricane winds. They said they would be up to 60mph. We were watching our metal chairs being blown around...and they are in our courtyard which is shielded by the house on 3 sides and then the block wall on the other.

will women stay home without one on the ticket somewhere the question?   

no they won't

I agree linda b, just calling it like I see it.

Obama/Webb

Hillary would have to pull record numbers of young working mothers to the poll that don't normally vote and might do it. would have to to win, not impossible

same with Obama and young people to a degree

Obama/Webb  

~~~~~~~~~that would work

if those people vote rethug for that reason then they have no sense.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Linda,

The same people gave us 8 years of Ronald Reagan, 4 years of George Bush and 4 years of Bush2 until they finally realized what they had been ushering in since 1980.........I am going to be curious if Obama, should he lose the nomination is going to be as gracious a loser as he was a winner........his so called "uniting" abilities are really going to be put to the test..........

lindab - Actually, I am on an island (by choice) and I would stay home rather than vote for Hillary. As far as having *no sense* well, that's their right.

BTW, I would love an Obama/Webb ticket or Obama/Schweitzer ticket.

The old new thread is back. 

In a completely unscientific online newspaper poll in South Florida, Hillary is leading Obama 41% to 30%, with Edwards trailing at 13%.  South Florida is the last stronghold of liberal, Democratic thinking in this state.  Pathetic.

Also in the poll, the respondents indicated that experience and knowledge were their main factors in deciding on who to support.  (When determining who to vote for in the primary, which of these qualities do you value most?) Based on who they are voting for, this seems to indicate that a majority of these voters believe that Hillary has more experience and knowledge.  The sense of the American voter never ceases to amaze me.  Being a former First Lady is not experience.  But being a State Senator certainly is.  Of the three leading Dems still in the race, Obama edges Clinton in the experience category, IMO.

On topic - Good Luck, Mike Carroll!

The old new thread is back.   

+++

Back To The Future

In a completely unscientific online newspaper poll in South Florida, Hillary is leading Obama 41% to 30%, with Edwards trailing at 13%.  South Florida is the last stronghold of liberal, Democratic thinking in this state.  Pathetic.

...

+++

Paz -

You heard of "ole time religion" ?

Well, IMO South Floridians (the ones that gave us hanging chad counters who couldn't keep out rambucious repubs from causing havoc at the counting sites in Palm Beach, FL etc, in Dec 2000) are "old time dems".

Frankly, I'd be surprised if the majority voted for Obama there.

Just as they said here in Virginia that Mark Warner is DINO.

Well we are lucky to have someone with a D next to his name, cause here in Virginia the R's are so back assward it is not funny.

Hateful, homophobic and that is just for starters.

Centrists is what we need here in Va just to get elected.

Progressive? What's that?

And the fact that I can't even get DFA to get training is aweful. Yes, be progressive but do it on your own.

Gots to go.