I would say about 80% of the political posts I read on the web would define the authors as 'terrorists' under this bill.

What the * were the Representatives thinking? Did they even *read* this thing or did they just go by the title?

the bunch of loonies will vote for anything to make them look patriotic.

get going on your senator.

I just read the bill. It protects the constitutional rights in tact. go and read the bill.

Peace

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lGwwwobHPBg

I think the you tube blog up load feature is broken.

Deans are of course first!

Listen to this video and the FOX attacks on Edwards and Obama.

There is a letter to sign there also thanking both of them for resisting the attacks meant to draw them to their sick channel for "interviews."

http://foxattacks.com/senators?utm_source=rgemail

joan, thanks for the info on fox. those guys are really wacko.

chris wallace looks like a clown. his dad  must be so embarressed.

you like someone being a bold face liar? right to your face.

Mika calls out the ol huckster, that guy is a laugh a minute.

Hey Fred - if you're out there and read the comments on the last topic -- just remember:  Nobody bothers to kick a 'dead horse'. : )

Did I see that CNN says immigration will be a priority?  No way. But the Repulicans might want it that way.

CBS News/New York Times Poll. Dec. 5-9, 2007 National Priorities in order:  War in Iraq 25%: Economy jobs 12%;  Health care 7%: Immigration 4%.

And the Approval rating for Democrats in Congress is:   ABC News/Washington Post Poll. Dec. 6-9, 2007 Democrats Congress:  Approve 40%: Disapprove 53%:  Unsure 6%

The American people can distinguish between the Democrats and the RepubliCANTS in Congress - even with the media blitz 'blaming the Democrats'. : )

7.3 Quake in Martinique...is that Mt. Pelee???

Why is it that the comments on an important issue like this gets gummed up with spam for other topics?

The paranoid might think the off-topic posts are trying to disrupt discussion about the primary topic.

Either that or bring attention to less important issues by trying to ride them on the coat-tails of something more important, sort of like pork added onto an otherwise righteous congressional bill.

HR 1955 does not protect constitutional rights. There's a huge loophole at the beginning of the 'constitutional rights' section, where it starts out by saying 'In general...' This could be legally interpreted as, say, oppressing 20% of the population is 'okay' because the other 80% isn't oppressed and so 'in general', constitutional rights have been protected.

You can't just skim this stuff; legal documents have to be carefully dissected to find the loopholes, because you just KNOW that TPTB are going to exploit every loophole they can.

The language of this bill is so vague you could drive an aircraft carrier through the holes that would allow it to be used for oppression.

Hey Fred - if you're out there and read the comments on the last topic -- just remember:  Nobody bothers to kick a 'dead horse'. : )

He'd probably call you an epithet for calling him a dead horse. 

You guys need to write your senators and urge them to not support this bill.

Otherwise you may become 'terrorists' next year; the word will have been legally redefined to include you because of your views critical of the government which you've already posted on the web.

Bill HR1955 passed with 404 of our Democrates and Republicans in House of Representatives in our House recently and is on its way to the Senate.

Tell me again why having Democrats in charge is better? 

It's time for everyone who hasn't yet to face up to the fact that the DCDems do not give a rat's rump about representing liberals, or even most Democrats -- not even most Americans. They barely even qualify as what was once called moderate Republicans.

103.

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/07


...All I know is that he didn't support the invasion, but has supported the occupation.
--------------

There is no principal difference between both.
Can have either both or none.

independent, I am calling my senator webb but I don't know if his brain has been replaced by jello. he is voting all over the place.

and the fact that we don't stay on topic is at time troubling but that is what we do here.

all over the place.

thanks for your info.

CLEVELAND - The youngest brother of Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich was found dead at his home Wednesday.

Perry Kucinich, 52, was found face down by another brother, Larry, at about 9 a.m., said Powell Caesar, a spokesman for the Cuyahoga County Coroner's office.

There were no signs of foul play, Caesar said.

I just read the bill. It protects the constitutional rights in tact. go and read the bill.

The very pretentious and fearmongering name of  this bill damns it.

Regardless of what is or isn't in the fine print of this bill, we don't need any more damned patriot laws about imaginary terrorists in our midst. 

What we need is a party that will put its foot down and say enough of this fear mongering as an excuse to spy on Americans and manipulate our politics and freedoms. 

Sitak - you're a 'hoot'. : )

It's about these polls?

December 19: ABC News/Washington Post Poll of Iowa:  Obama  33% support, Clinton  29%; John Edwards 20%.

There is no principal difference between both.
Can have either both or none.

I won't waste my time trying defend votes to fund the occupation. 

It's about these polls?

They seem to be all over the place. Pick the one you like. Since I'm not a supporter, I don't need to.

Raising the Minimum Wage - H.R. 2

Democrats:  This bill increases the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour over two years. Increasing the minimum wage to $7.25 per hour brings a pay raise for up to 13 million Americans.
Status: Passed January 10, 2007
The President signed into law on May 25 as part of the revised 2007 supplemental funding bill,

Democrats:  This bill increases the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour over two years. Increasing the minimum wage to $7.25 per hour brings a pay raise for up to 13 million Americans.

Yeah, they put into one of their capitulations to Bush on occuption funding -- and it only raises the MR to what it should have bee at least ten years ago. You'd think they would have sold out for more. 

Democrats: Repealing Big Oil Subsidies/Investing in Renewable Fuels - H.R. 6 
This bill invests in clean, renewable energy and energy efficiency by repealing billions in subsidies given to big oil companies that are raking in record profits.
Status: Passed January 18, 2007

Will probably be vetoed by el capitano presidente...

linda b
Wed, 12/19/07

Webb has really disappointed...and disappeared. He seems to have really crawled into a hole. Voted for Iraq funding and blank check for bush yesterday. He can kiss netroots money goodbye. I guess he feels he is now a DC insider and can stiff the people who got him there.

BTW, sorry to see Forgit didn't win. I know you worked hard on that one. It's a tough District. Is he going to run next year?

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/07

Remember the 100 hours agenda? I think only minimum wage was signed, cuz it was tacked onto blood money. The rest has been jettisoned along the capitulating way.

Go ahead and post all the ultimate failures you want. It's your time.

It's stopping Bush and the repeated rapes of the Constitution where Democrats have not only failed, but appear complicit.

Remember the 100 hours agenda? I think only minimum wage was signed, cuz it was tacked onto blood money. The rest has been jettisoned along the capitulating way

What started out as cosmetic accomplishments have turned out to be lipstick on a pig.

(I'll give Edwards half credit for that zinger.) 

Sam

that isn't quite the Energy Bill that passed, Bush threatened to veto that one

big oil came through, and solar lost in the version he signed

beats the heck out of anything the reThugs would have passed, half of what it could have been

I, and I think most who did so, voted Democratic in the last election because we wanted them to stand up to and stop Bush rather than pass bills he can sign.

Phil Specht
Wed, 12/19/07

Corn farmers are happy! But less than half was gained. Is a quarter loaf better than nothing? Only if we can get some of those back next year which is highly unlikely. This was like peeing on a fire.

My thoughts go out to Dennis Kucinich, and family, for the loss of their brother.
Congressman Kucinich is the strongest patriot serving in the U.S. House during this disasterous fascist rule. A giant of a human with momentous ideas.

Strength through Peace.

Kucinich/Feingold '08

Corn farmers are happy!

But not people who will have pay higher prices for food due to it being turned into fuel. 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - One-quarter of women voters in New Hampshire say they will cast their ballot in next month's presidential primary election based on the results of the Iowa caucus a few days earlier, a survey showed on Wednesday.

The women said if their favorite candidate for the presidential nomination did not win on January 3 in Iowa, they would vote for someone else in the January 8 New Hampshire primary, the Lifetime/Zogby poll found.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071219/pl_nm/usa_politics_poll_women_dc_1 

This is why people running for President live in Iowa for a year before the caucuses.  What is wrong with you people!  Have an opinion, don't just follow the herd! 

Don't blame Iowa for what people do in states after Iowa.

This is why people running for President live in Iowa for a year before the caucuses.  What is wrong with you people!  Have an opinion, don't just follow the herd!

National primary. 

Don't blame Iowa for what people do in states after Iowa.

12

Did I see that CNN says immigration will be a priority?  No way. But the Repulicans might want it that way.

CNN and their Repug pusher is Lou Dobbs who started this sh*t more than a year ago when it became apparent that abortion and gays were just not going to cut it again for the Repugs. So Dobbs thought he could kick up a little support by making an issue of immigration and sent back a lot of Dem votes to Mexico at the same time.

The polls show that the only voter who are buying into any of it are no doubt a few of those Dobbs supporters.

We really need to get some interest up in boycotting CNN much like Edwards and Obama and some of the other candidates are doing and did in Nevada and Detroit.

MSNBC is at least attempting to make the playing field eve with Olbermann and Matthews though I sometimes wonder about the latter. They need to be rewarded, CNN needs to be avoided like the plague.

-

There is a two billion bushel surplus of corn this year.

Wheat which has not been used at all for ethanol has a 20 some day global supply projected before the next harvest in the Southern Hemisphere.

get your facts straight about what is causing higher food prices  ... it is the oil companies and producers and the sky high price of energy/transportation/packaging from oil

ethanol eases that

linda b

I agree with all your posts. Good luck in getting some training down there where it is needed and where they too should be rewarded for their/your hard work.

Phil, I'm not blaming Iowa.  I'm blaming the voters in every state that comes after Iowa.

And Sitka, if we had a national primary, whoever had the most name recognition and could afford the most TV ads in major markets would win.  There would be no chance for a Howard Dean or Jimmy Carter to build a campaign from the bottom up.  The result would be an even greater likelyhood of a DCDem getting the nomination.

the biggest cause of higher oil prices is the occupation of Iraq and threatening war with Iran

next is the tax cut caused deficit and our trade deficit caused by the high oil in great part leading to a devalued dollar

ethanol as a domestic product is the cure not the disease

40

We really need to get some interest up in boycotting CNN much like Edwards and Obama and some of the other candidates are doing and did in Nevada and Detroit.

I meant to add like they did to FOX NEWS in Nevada and Detroit.

Wake up, back to the kitchen with me.

there is still 30 million acres in the Reserve

the day will come when biofuels will compete for food and be a problem but it is a decade or more down the road

we lose more land to development daily and if food availability is your true concern and not mouthing oil company talking points you would focus on land use planning first

"A plant able to produce 100 million gallons of ethanol a year probably is going to increase corn prices at least 10 to 12 cents per bushel within 10 to 15 ...

But demand from ethanol plants has boosted corn consumption, tightened supplies and lifted prices to some of the highest levels in 10 years.

Increased demand for corn by U.S. ethanol producers might push prices high enough that these transportation costs are more easily surmounted. ...

<><> 

TOP STORY

Clinton Can No Longer Count on California Win in Primary as Race Narrows According to Field Poll

Some Very Interesting Numbers Indeed Below the Hood of This Survey

By Frank D. Russo

The California Field Poll has just released a survey taken between December 10 and 17 that shows Hillary Clinton’s once 25 point edge in California has declined to 14% over Barack Obama, and that if third place John Edwards were to drop out of the race, it would be even closer. Virtually all of the movement in the poll comes from a drop in support from Clinton from October when she had the support of 45% of likely primary voters to 36% in the latest survey and an increase in undecided Democratic primary voters to 20%, up from 14% previously. ...full post and Field Poll link: http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/...

the day will come when biofuels will compete for food and be a problem but it is a decade or more down the road

So do as always and put the problem off until it's imminent so that ADM can rake in billions on subsidies in the meantime?

rich

the sheeple effect is real, I grant that, but this is not the general election it is the allocation of delegates to the nominating convention in Denver

and as such party rules very clearly give every single primary voter exactly the same weight

and I know you weren't blaming Iowa, but I do get tired of people that do, without acknowledging their complicity by failing to be involved in their state

we lose more land to development daily and if food availability is your true concern and not mouthing oil company talking points you would focus on land use planning first

Gore Iowa's subsidy ox and Phil turns nasty. 

this is not the general election it is the allocation of delegates to the nominating convention in Denver

Time to dump the corrupt old insider system and let the people choose their nominees direct. 

I have never argued for subsidies other than those needed to counter other countries and make a level playing field.

I would impose a $50,000 limit if I could wave a wand (like Sen. Grassley originally proposed)

tariffs on foreign product subsidized overseas add directly to the cost of food and are the other fair way to level the playing field

I have never argued for subsidies other than those needed to counter other countries and make a level playing field.

Your visceral reaction to links from a wide variety of sources could be misconstrued, I suppose.

Time to dump the corrupt old insider system and let the people choose their nominees direct. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

or use it to prevent a sheeple stampede. 

Sitka: "Regardless of what is or isn't in the fine print of this bill, we don't need any more damned patriot laws about imaginary terrorists in our midst. What we need is a party that will put its foot down and say enough of this fear mongering as an excuse to spy on Americans and manipulate our politics and freedoms"

 The sad thing is on September 1, 2001 you would have said the same thing.  It is as if the death and destruction, which site I visited in NYC this last weekend,  never happened.  And before the attack they lived "in our midst" for more than two years.  Have the courage to admit it.  You would not have believed they were here then and you are sure they a imaginary today.   

The name opposite the Democratic Party on is chosen in Denver. The Party Chair is Howard Dean.

everyone of you within party rules have the exact same say as an Iowan

or use it to prevent a sheeple stampede.

Only you Iowans can protect the people from themselves?

Your contempt for Democratic voters belies any professed belief in democracy. 

everyone of you within party rules have the exact same say as an Iowan

Unless half or more of the candidates are weeded out before we even get to vote.  And first you say we are sheeple who can't be trusted to choose the nominee and then you say we do get to choose the nominee. Make up your mind.

Defending the indefensible creates a tangled web. 

Your contempt for Democratic voters

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

my high regard for democratic voters lead me to believe that when the vote comes to their state they will be able to use their own values to pick the candidate they suppport whenever their primary happens and if they don't it is their own fault

of course it doesn't help that the "news" is Brittney's little sister or a years old murder

I tend to blame the media for the failure to report that every voter has the exact same influence on the nomination if they exercise it

 The sad thing is on September 1, 2001 you would have said the same thing.

That's post 9-11 thinking. In other words, fear mongering. 

But hey, if it's all ya got.......... 

when do you vote Sitka?

do you really think your Secretary of State will remove names from your ballot based on Iowa?

or use it to prevent a sheeple stampede

my high regard for democratic voters

Don't you mean "sheeple" who must be protected from themselves by the wise Iowans who guard the gate to the presidency and weed out those who are undeserving of votes from the rest of us? Such as candidates who don't spend enough time amd money in Iowa?

Phil - thanks for your daily show of democracy and being an example to the rest of us about what it really means to TAKE PART in the democratic process - small d, in case some need further explanation.

Also, thanks for always taking the high road on the blog - another example of effective communication. In other words, I read what you have to say all the time.

Not true of others here.

Merry Christmas

take it away Denise

I have chores to do.

thanks,bbl

CNN - the Unfactual Channel:

Cafferty:  “Democrats with no backbone ….make the French look brave…”  Well, let’s see – the French are fighting and dying with us in Afghanistan..  GOOD one Mr. Rude.  And the Democrats?    Give the FACTS JACK.. on this partial funding for Iraq and the APRIL timeline the Democrats have on it.  Bush wanted $200 billion.  We offered $50 billion.  Democrats gave another $20 billion for IED detection and life saving for our troops.  CUT Mr. Bush’s war funds by $130 BILLION!   And Goerge is p**sd off.

when do you vote Sitka?

do you really think your Secretary of State will remove names from your ballot based on Iowa?

I'm talking about candidates dropping out because they can't raise money after Iowa and the corporate media have "vetted" them for the rest of us. I'm talking about candidates not even coming to states like mine because they have to camp out in Iowa and NH for a year and spend every dime there.

There is no good reason why any state should be first -- and no reason at all why it should be Iowa/NH.

I don't expect Iowans to get over themselves. But the time is coming when the restwill say "enough of this exclusionary and manipulative political quackery."

I wish I could take it away but I have to go to my last meeting of the year right now - and then I'm on vacation!

I made a vow to attend more local DFA meetings, starting Jan. 9th, as I don't think I'll be traveling quite as much next year.

Back when I can!

I read what you have to say all the time.

I read what Phil has to say all the time too. And sometimes I agree with him. 

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/07

Your response was not even a response.  Who do you think you are, George Bush? You can always tell when you have struck a nerve.  The response always ignores the question like most politicians.

"Have the courage to admit it.  You would not have believed they were here then and you are sure they a imaginary today. "  

It is likely your judgment is and was wrong.

And now it's time for another "Daily Affirmation" with Sam Ross......

"Democrats are good enough, they're smart enough, and doggone it, people like them."

Your response was not even a response.

It was head and shoulders above the Bushist NeoCon propaganda that promted it. 

Lets see. Who is there to talk to right now?

1. An apologist for the Iowa caucuses and ethanol industry.
2. An apologist for the Democratic Party
3. And apologist for Bush.

Mr. Sitka.... : )   If you were at St. Peter's Gate (let's assume it's possible for this purpose) WHO would you want to be judging you to get in ------ a Republican?(conservative)  or a Democrat (Liberal)?

 I think we should just let the media brain wash the whole country - let a Republican (the MORER of two evils) be President - blame all the problems on him - massively vote in Democrats to the House and Senate and - go from there. : ) 

Are you SURE the Democrats didn’t win this one?

Bush's GOP allies were divided over whether the omnibus appropriations bill represented a win for the party in a months-long battle with Democrats…. House Republicans and a few Senate GOP conservatives …were disappointed that Bush hadn't taken a harder line  

The Iraq funds have been bundled with an omnibus appropriations measure… money to provide domestic agencies whose budgets are set each year by Congress. (The White House, which maintained a hard line for months, … accepted $11 billion in "emergency" spending for veterans, drought relief, border security and firefighting accounts, among others, as part of this package.) 

Providing the war funds ($70 billion out of the proposed Bush $200 billion) was a bitter pill for most Democrats who on Monday sent the Senate a bill limited to $31 billion for U.S. operations in Afghanistan.  That effort was doomed in the face of a Bush veto promise and a filibuster by Senate Republicans

The vote represented reluctance in both parties to take money away from troops in the field. At the same time, anti-war Democrats' positions had been weakened by the decline in violence in Iraq following the increased tempo of U.S.-led military operations there.

House now speaking on the Iraq blank check for Bush. They want to get out of town, now they can hang their tails between their legs. what a dismal congress.

They lied to us about not allowing the funding to come up until next year.

We have been betrayed.  The money has no conditions and can all be used for Iraq for whatever purpose.

It is not paid for but will be billed to our children's future. Sad shameful day for the Democrats who will vote for this.

Watch it on www.cspan.org

Mr. SCROOGE is in the Whitehouse...

My sense of the House debate is that even the out of Iraq caucus is so demoralized and beaten that they aren't giving very passionate speeches. Going through the motions. Why no amendments at least attempted. Even if they fail, get the war promoters on record.

They have not allowed that to occur. Many just want to go home for christmas while they vote for more never-ending death and destruction. Did you call your Representative today? do it now.

You've got to stay on this guy, he's slippery and so are his sheeple followers:

Democrats: Revised Version of the FY 2007 Supplemental Funding Bill - H.R. 2206
This bill is a revised version of the FY 2007 Supplemental, which fails to include the tough provisions holding the Iraqi government accountable and providing a responsible timetable for the redeployment of U.S. troops contained in the earlier version.  However, in this bill, the President was forced to abandon his threat to veto any bill containing accountability – agreeing to 18 benchmarks and a potential cut-off of reconstruction aid if progress is not made toward meeting them.  The measure also includes a minimum wage increase, children’s health care, and other important domestic priorities.  
Status: Passed May 10, 2007
Signed into the law by the President on May 25, 2007

I love Andy Borowitz:

"The White House, one of the most historic structures in the nation's capital, burnt to the ground today after Vice President Dick Cheney attempted to incinerate a cache of CIA interrogation tapes in his office...

Speaking in front of the charred remains of the historic building, administration spokesperson Dana Perino said that the White House might have been saved had it not been for an unfortunate bureaucratic mix-up: "Instead of calling the fire department, President Bush called FEMA."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/attempting-to-destroy-cia_b_77554.html

At least we'll get their names on record with recorded vote now. Last vote of the year.

If you were at St. Peter's Gate (let's assume it's possible for this purpose) WHO would you want to be judging you to get in ------ a Republican?(conservative)  or a Democrat (Liberal)?

You need to include another option -- A DLC bluedog posing as a Democrat .

I think we should just let the media brain wash the whole country - let a Republican (the MORER of two evils) be President - blame all the problems on him - massively vote in Democrats to the House and Senate and - go from there. : )

That will only work if Democrats oppose Bush. It's completely undermined when Democrats comply and collaborate with him.

They lied to us about not allowing the funding to come up until next year.

They're apparently confident that we'll forget and fall in line come election time.

Sam isn't the only one who still buys the old "it's us or them" line. 

Democrats: U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Health and Iraq Accountability Act
Had it not been vetoed by the President,

Get with the times Sam. Democrats are once again complicit with Bush as we speak. We elected Democrats to stop Bush, not pass empty gestures.

About the Bluedogs.....it is so hypocritical that they will vote with rethugs on the spending bill when there are so many earmarks, it funds the war with more debt and is fiscally irresponsible. I guess their concern about the debt and fiscal responsibility is trumped by their desire to fall in line with Bush.

Listening to cspan, NOONE is happy with this war or this bill. The views are scathing of both. Repubs, indys and Dems are fed up. Good going, Nancy and Harry. I really think some independents ought to run for Congress and beat the two parties.

77 Democrats for and 1 rethug against the Iraq spending. We don't really have a democratic majority since so many have been willing to vote like a Bushie.

Just look what the Democrats have been up to!  It' a good thing we have King George to VETO these meaningless bills... Mr. Bush says he will veto ALL of these...and his lap dog, uncaring Republicans in Congress are going right along with him.

Democrats:

Requiring Medicare to Negotiate Lower Prescription Drug Prices - H.R. 4

Affordable Housing for the Elderly Act - H.R. 2930

Internet Tax Freedom - H.R. 3678

Online Child Protection

Homeowners’ Defense Act of 2007 - H.R. 3355

The Energy Price Gouging Act – H.R. 1252

The No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels (NOPEC) Act - H.R. 2264

Joshua Omvig Veterans Suicide Prevention Act - H.R. 327

Mortgage Reform and Anti-Predatory Lending - H.R. 3915

Repealing Big Oil Subsidies/Investing in Renewable Fuels - H.R. 6 

Water Resources Development Act of 2007 - H.R. 1495

Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2007 - H.R. 985

Taxpayer Protection Act - H.R. 1677

National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) - H.R. 2640

Honest Leadership - H.Res. 6

WHAT...the news media didn't tell us these things. ?  Please tell me one good thing the Republicans have done for the American people this year.   Merry Christmas.

I guess their concern about the debt and fiscal responsibility

What concern? Conservatives are fiscally irresponsible and implying anything else flies in the face of demonstrated fact during the regimes of Reagan and Bush. 

19 House reps. didn't vote on Iraq spending. I guess the Christmas parties were more interesting!

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/07

Right. Except the Bluedogs formed mainly to highlight the debt. They even have a debt clock prominent on their home page. Well, they just upped it by $70 billion with absolutely no accountability today. Bushco. can use it for anything. WHOOPEE!! What a Christmas present.

We don't really have a democratic majority

That's the depressing reality. For the overwhelmingly most part, the only difference Democrats being in the majority has made is that they get the nicer offices in the Capitol.

Merry Christmas!  from your own CIA

….by making this NIE public, the CIA further weakened Bush's already damaged credibility. He no longer intimidates and stands exposed as a fraud. The intelligence community sucker punched the Great Intimidator -- in public

Bush is sitting in his office celebrating and saying what an easy rollover Dems were. They couldn't even put up a fight. Against a President that has a 25% approval rating! They are toasting in the WH today (and I don't mean the fire!).

Hillary came up with a good one:

"As was said before - it takes a Clinton to clean up after a Bush."

Sitka, why don't you start your own blog entries on each of your topics so that they can be considered and discussed instead of gumming up the discussion here with irrelevencies?

If you really are concerned with your issues, that is what you'll do. To do otherwise declares that your real intent is to disrupt the discussion of the topics which you spam.

I don't care if ' [posting off topic] is what you do around here'. When the off-topic comments makes this site useless and unmanageable for on-topic discussion, tradition has to change. So change your tradition (and set an example for our tradition-entrenched congress).

Start a separate thread for your socializing, or your own club group that can thus easily share its group of posts and discussions via the 'favorites' page. But quit spamming-out the possibility of holding an intelligent discussion about national issues.

Right. Except the Bluedogs formed mainly to highlight the debt

And Democrats promised to end the occupation. Fool me how many times? 

All three Indiana NEW dogs voted for a blank check for Bush. Thank you for sticking it to us.

See how others voted here. 78 Dems betrayed us.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1186.xml#Y

Sitka, why don't you start your own blog entries on each of your topics so that they can be considered and discussed instead of gumming up the discussion here with irrelevencies?

I saw your earlier posts that were critical of people being off topic and chose to ignore them. We're always off topic around here -- just as you are now with your criticism. 

Why don't YOU post on topic and let others respond or not as they see fit? We've had self appointed blog bosses come around here before -- and they always leave. 

Nah - Bush is having tizzy fits like a little kid.  He only got $70 billion out of the $200 billion he DEMANDED.....and had to give money to the vets and things he doesn't believe in.  $70 billion to make sure our troops our safe and CAN come home.  I give a pass to the Democrats on that one...

Besides, haven't you noticed George is looking old and frazzled and has another line and an 'owie' on his forehead from stress?  I'd imagine, with the CIA moving on him - he's going to spend Christmas with DICK and a whole bunch of attorneys.....

All three Indiana NEW dogs voted for a blank check for Bush.

Are NewDogs Dems whom we supported because they said they would end the occupation? 

DFA-Lister Kirsten GIllibrand voted for a Iraq blank check for Bush.

Whoopee....let's not do anything to upset her. DFA, follow up on DFA-Listers. Until you do, I am NOT contributing another dime to DFA.

Tomorrow, I will cancel my Democracy Bond with the DNC. Democrats have betrayed us. Some of them call themselves progressives and were our own.

78 Dems betrayed us.

That's about 25 more than usual. We seem to be losing ground with DCDems.

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/07

No, Sitka, they didn't say they would end the war/occupation. I did when I ran against one of them and I would have voted against this Bill.

They DID say they would hold Bush accountable and not vote for a blank check (their very words in a campaign promise). I will be contacting the press this week charging them with breaking their promise to voters. Maybe an independent run against them.

DFA-Lister Kirsten GIllibrand voted for a Iraq blank check for Bush.

Whoopee....let's not do anything to upset her. DFA, follow up on DFA-Listers. Until you do, I am NOT contributing another dime to DFA.

I'm afraid these people have taken DFA's money and ran -- with Bush. There has to be some kind of accountability administered or DFA will be undermined to its foundation.

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/07

They just love Gen. Petraeus! No, that's about the same number which voted for the supplemental last year. The one that at least had benchmarks. Benchmarks??? Oh, yeah, the ones they ignored and never brought up again!!

I'm going to cross reference those two votes and bet we'll see the same turncoat names. Gillibrand is one of them.

18.

linda b
Wed, 12/19/07

Webb has really disappointed...and disappeared. He seems to have really crawled into a hole. Voted for Iraq funding and blank check for bush yesterday. He can kiss netroots money goodbye. I guess he feels he is now a DC insider and can stiff the people who got him there.

BTW, sorry to see Forgit didn't win. I know you worked hard on that one. It's a tough District. Is he going to run next year?

THE DCCC STIFFED FORGIT ON THIS ONE. TOLD HIM TO RUN AND THEY WOULD SUPPORT HIM AND NADA. I TRIED TO CALL THEM THE WEEK BEFORE THE ELECTION AND NADA.

PHIL WAS A GREAT CANDIDATE BUT THIS IS A RETHUG GERRYMANDERED DISTRICT.

They could run a rock and win. and they did. the rethug was sending out stuff about immigration and the boogey man.

I saw a lot of infighting too. I am in the 3rd but helped out cause my committee is both 1st and 3rd. Last time I did this the candidate's wife, who did nothing asked me two days before the election why I did not have a list of where ALL OF THE VOLUNTEERS WERE WORKING  in case someone was sick. I told her the precinct captains had their lists and were in charge. She had been working behind my back trying to subvert what I was doing. She never does anything but is the first to complain how it is done. so next time she can do it.

They DID say they would hold Bush accountable and not vote for a blank check (their very words in a campaign promise).

That's what I meant. Holding Bush accountable and not giving him a blank check WOULD end the occupation. 

Gotta go for a while. 

sad new thread http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/23335...

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/07

I know. I agree...gotta go recharge. Why did we spend so much time getting them the majority. They have blown it big-time. Alienated just about everybody 'cept the groupies.

When HOWARD speaks...people listen:

Howard Dean on Wolf Blitzer: the War funding $70 billion:  “Sure, I’m frustrated, as are all Democrats, but I’m a realist.  The truth is we tried to end the war in Viet Nam and Nixon’s approval was worse than Bush’s ..and he refused. 

"If you want to get out of Iraq- you HAVE to have a Democratic President."

The people know…by a 20 % point margin – they KNOW that it’s the Republicans being obstructionists."

What have we done....among other things, increased veterans benefits, help middle class college students, passed an energy bill…against the President’s friends, ..... – but we need to get us out of Iraq in a thoughtful, careful  way..

"We stand for REAL change – vote Democrat."

Howard Dean

there's a new thread about Kucinich's brother.

But, I did a post about this miserable piece of legislation for hannah

http://hannah.smith-family.com/?p=2156 

Indy - Alienated just about everybody 'cept the groupies.'

AND 64% of the American people!  Some groupies.

Sam Ross
Wed, 12/19/07

Sorry, Howard, but that is such bullshit. The dems caved...they could have sent the bill without Iraq funding. but they caved. And no amount of lipstick will make that pig pretty.

Sam Ross
Wed, 12/19/07

Congress has a lower approval rating than Bush. You're fooling yourself. But you won't fool me.

Indy - I put the statistics and poll up earlier.     "Congress' as a whole is presently one point less than Bush's approval rating -- also - "Congress's' approval rating actually came  UP one point in approval from the last poll.   But the DEMOCRATS in Congress are up SEVEN points on Bush's approval rating.   People know the difference, like Howard said.  

Also - you guys have a lot of work to do:

A politico.com Poll – for ‘Progressives’ showed that even though  they favored Obama by 29%, then Edwards with 26% - they also voted 17% for Hillary Clinton!  Progressives!

http://www.politico.com/pdf/PPM44_070620politicostraw.final.pdf

Sitka, why don't you start your own blog entries on each of your topics

...

Independent Progessive -

Excuse me, two questions for you:

1.) why are you singling out Sitka ?

2.) who gives you the authority to tell others what to do on this blog ?

Here is a rather informative site on HR-1955, with links to articles about the bill.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h19...

Uh...Yvonne...there is nothing in the bill about thought crimes:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:1:./temp/~c110Z4Vgpm::

That being said, it is a ridiculous law that does seem to broaden the definition of 'at risk' people or organizations.  It opens up a grey area for States to use federal grant monies to produce and distribute propaganda that can ultimately provike homegrown terrorism as opposed to preventing it.  An example of Homegrown Terrorism is radicals that blow up free clinics...but who will dare address these groups of people with the wording of the bill?

We already have existing laws that address Homegrown Terrorism...I don't see why we need this ridiculous law that apparently opens the door to ideological definitions of it.

"We already have existing laws that address Homegrown Terrorism...I don't see why we need this ridiculous law that apparently opens the door to ideological definitions of it

Well said, Alan.

The thing I most dislike about the bill is its failure to define a 'radical organization'. It leaves that definition up to the politicos, which means that they can basically define it as anyone who they don't happen to like that week.

They may start by mowing down PETA and Earth First!, but they could well take it all the way to the ASPCA and Sierra Club.

We claim to be a government of laws. So we need a clearer law that sets a limit on the government's power regarding this issue and does not merely leave the door open for infinite expansion of that power and erosion of our privacy and freedom of speech and assembly.

It is not enough to have to 'trust' TPTB not to abuse power, these limits have to be set down in black and white in the structure of the law, just as our national founders wrote down the Bill of Rights to protect the rights of the individual at the same time they set out what the powers of the government would be.

Thank you.  Not many serious minded citizens out here anymore it seems. 

A thought would cover any blog Alan Zitz....where you are conveying what you think about a topic, are you not?  Hence, a "thought crime"...with how loose this wording is on this bill, YES, they CAN take your blog as one who seeks to advance any religious, political or social change and IT WILL be considered an act of domestic terrorism!

 Do you know that in my state that if a person is involved in a domestic dispute, it is now call terroristic threats against that person or each other.  That if you ever say to someone I'd like to knock that person up side the head, or worse yet, I'd like to kill that person, even if said just in a conversation between two friends, if overheard by the wrong person, you are now charged with terroristic threats, or are branded a terrorists?  Talk to the people who are afraid to blog or use message boards anymore, they are the ones who have been burned by these new laws or know of someone personally who has.  I normally do not blog or use boards for these reason, but this HR1955 Bill has me so up in arms that I really thought that DFA and it's readers who respond.

 You know, I cried when I saw how Sitka and others immediately clouded the waters so that it was more a personal political statement blog for that person and others, not about this horrible Bill.  I have already called my representatives and my Senators and I ask any DFA readers to do the same.  For any serious minded advocate of citizens being the ones who pay and control what goes on in our government and that one day our government may actually reflect just that, please call your representatives...today!