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Corporate 'personhood' (Kucinich, YouTube)

Written by: Lisa justcheckingitoutfornow on Dec 20, 2007 6:08 PM EST

Linked to groups: California for Democracy

Here is a link to Kucinich's comments on this issue.

I don't know who my candidate is yet, but I like his opinion on this issue and hope the nominee will adopt it, at least.

(California allows unaffiliated voters to vote on the primary ticket of the party of their choice if the party authorizes an open primary; dems and american independents did, repubs, libertarians, et al. did not.)

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Location: CA 95020

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By roger rankin on Dec 23, 2007 12:23 AM EST

DEAN 08!

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By floridagal . on Dec 23, 2007 2:08 AM EST

When I am posting the 4th and 5th items in the menu bar....the "insert/edit link" one and the "unlink" one are greyed out and unusable.

Can someone tell me why that is?  Is there another way to rename a link?

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By Sitka on Dec 23, 2007 2:36 AM EST

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/

Introduction to Corporate Personhood

Our Bill of Rights was the result of tremendous efforts to institutionalize and protect the rights of human beings. It strengthened the premise of our Constitution: that the people are the root of all power and authority for government. This vision has made our Constitution and government a model emulated in many nations.

But corporate lawyers (acting as both attorneys and judges) subverted our Bill of Rights in the late 1800's by establishing the doctrine of "corporate personhood" -- the claim that corporations were intended to fully enjoy the legal status and protections created for human beings.

We believe that corporations are not persons and possess only the privileges we willfully grant them. Granting corporations the status of legal "persons" effectively rewrites the Constitution to serve corporate interests as though they were human interests. Ultimately, the doctrine of granting constitutional rights to corporations gives a thing illegitimate privilege and power that undermines our freedom and authority as citizens. While corporations are setting the agenda on issues in our Congress and courts, We the People are not; for we can never speak as loudly with our own voices as corporations can with the unlimited amplification of money.

Read our draft constitutional amendment to revoke corporate constitutional "rights" and offer your thoughts.

 

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By Sitka on Dec 23, 2007 2:56 AM EST

When I am posting the 4th and 5th items in the menu bar....the "insert/edit link" one and the "unlink" one are greyed out and unusable.

Are you highlighting (or blocking?) the words you want use as the link first? That's what makes the link/unlink icons functionable.

Is there another way to rename a link? 

I can't yremember if this works here, but this is how you can do it in most places.....

<a href="URL">Word or phrase to be the link</a>

(Be sure to leave no spaces.)

You can post images this way....

<img src="URL" width="Xvalue" height="Yvalue"> 

This link tells all about the above stuff and more. 

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By mprov on Dec 23, 2007 3:08 AM EST

i'm certainly on board for rescinding the rights of any business-capitalist entity to have rights as if they were a person.

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By mprov on Dec 23, 2007 3:10 AM EST

only a person/human should have the constitutional rights assigned to people.

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By Monica Smith on Dec 23, 2007 5:42 AM EST

Good morning, everybody

Yes, floridagal, first you highlight/select/make blue and then you link. To select, you have to hold the mouse down while you move the cursor.  It's trickier on a lap-top where you have pads.

Anyway, the personhood issue is a good one.  There's probably something to be said for it since it's this designation that makes a group of people accountable, both in a criminal and civil court, for the actions they took in common.  That seems contradictory on its face since the purpose of setting up a fictitious person for a group is to enable the individual participants to be protected from being held liable for any damage or malfeasance by the group.  Unlike in a partnership where each partner can be liable for whatever is owed, the member of a corporation is only liable for a fair share and, if the corporation has no assets to pay compensation, that "fair share" may well be nothing, unless the reason there are no assets is because they've been stolen by the members.  Unfortunately, if the assets have been "distributed" according to the rules of the corporation, then all that's left is to dissolve it and the creditors are left stranded.

Corporate status encourages people to take risks that they might not take by themselves.  On the other hand, corporate status lets people take more risk than they should.

When you think of a public corporation like a school board, it makes sense that the individual members should not be liable for the debts incurred in building new buildings that will be used by several generations.  What's put a crimp into service on public corporations is that individuals can now be held liable for failing to be dilligent in the performance of their duties.  They're still not liable if they cause injury through an honest mistake (which can be demonstrated by a lawyer having given them the go-ahead), but otherwise they can not only be sued in a civil court , but a money judgement can be rendered against them.  Public corporations purchase insurance to cover this possibility, but even if personal assets aren't at risk, public officials are now in a position where the benefits of public service are few and far between.  It's even increasingly difficult to do favors for your friends.

Being a good public servant should be an end in itself.  There's no disputing that.  But, getting people to agree what a good public servant is, is hard. 

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By Monica Smith on Dec 23, 2007 5:55 AM EST

6.  One more thing.  The Constitution is a limiting document.  It defines what the agents of government can do--nothing that isn't permitted.  The Constitution doesn't "give" rights.  If they are given at all, they are handed out by the Creator--i.e. they are human rights.  That's why there was some question whether any should be spelled out, thereby leaving the implication that there are no others which the agents of government must respect.

Think of it in terms of the game, "mother may I?"  

What Bush/Cheney are trying to argue is that agents of government are just like a natural person and can do, in their official capacity, anything that's not forbidden to them.  That's not how it works.  The capacities of a government agent are more restricted than those of a regular person.  Which must have come as a real shock to Bush, since what he was after was an existence without restrictions. 

 

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By Monica Smith on Dec 23, 2007 6:02 AM EST

4.  the blog doesn't accept html code as an instruction.  The formatting is embedded and limited and can be accessed through the tool bar.  If a browser doesn't permit the automatic formatting that the tool bar provides, then the only alternative is just to type in words.

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By Phil Specht on Dec 23, 2007 6:22 AM EST

if you are at the blog with IE as your browser, cut and paste your full link, move the cursor to the end and hit enter, and you have a workable link that will turn blue

don't worry about naming them something else is my motto; if it works go with it

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By Phil Specht on Dec 23, 2007 6:22 AM EST
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By Phil Specht on Dec 23, 2007 6:28 AM EST

The double low has reformed as the northern one and will now effect all but the lake states as a normal cold front, but because of the duallity of it's origins, is traveling along like a flat tire, and when you think it is done will thump around again all the way to Montreal.

retailers to the East might have lucked out in our nations giant buyalapoozala,once referred to as Christmas

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By Susan Rowe on Dec 23, 2007 6:29 AM EST

Theodore Rex by Edmund Morris http://www.elise.com/books/el/archives/t...

Theodore Roosevelt, U.S. President, Rough Rider, Conservationist http://www.desertusa.com/mag98/july/papr...

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By Phil Specht on Dec 23, 2007 6:31 AM EST

Monica

I good editor could turn your blog musings into a college text book on a citizens role directing a subservient government.

democracy 101

they work for us

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By Phil Specht on Dec 23, 2007 6:37 AM EST

off to move my new foot of snow after spending five hours yesterday clearing the old ice down to bare ground or cement

the cows have to finally resolve to all sleep in the sheds tonight, some like the outdoors, but not when it turns this nasty with -10 wind chills

deep straw awaits and my best hay, a Christmas week tradition for me, whatever the weather

no candidates til after Christmas, but my mailbox had nine lit pieces

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By Phil Specht on Dec 23, 2007 6:38 AM EST

I sure do wish the Chicago Law Professor would join Dodd in his defense of the Rule of Law.

bbl

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By Jo*in*Vermont on Dec 23, 2007 6:38 AM EST

6:40 am - the winter solstice has come and the 'hard freeze moon' has brought us a brief thaw - it'll be pushing 50 here today!!!

good morning Phil - how are you this fine morning?  best wishes to you and your family this holiday season - hope all are well.

Monica, thank you, as always for your great insight.  my blessings to you and yours as well.

I'm still recovering my energy from watching and playing with all the grandkids at a family party yesterday - omg if we could only bottle that energy!  being a grandparent is certainly a reward for getting the kids through to adulthood.  the love, hope, acceptance and joy that children share could save the world if only we didn't shape it and mold it and wear it away.  here's to nurturing real people's 'personhood' and the corporations will one day be headed by folks who can/will make them work 'for the people'.

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By Susan Rowe on Dec 23, 2007 6:45 AM EST

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_...(United_States)#Progressives

Progressives
Main articles: Modern liberalism in the United States, Liberalism in the United States, and Progressivism in the United States

Opinions of liberals in a 2005 Pew Research Center study.Social liberals, also referred to as progressives or Modern liberals, constitute a large part, about 45.6 percent, of the Democratic voter base. Liberals thereby form the largest united typological demographic within the Democratic base. According to the Pew Research Center liberals constitute roughly 19 percent of the electorate with 92 percent of American liberals favoring the Democratic Party.[8] While college-educated professionals were mostly Republican until the 1950s; they now comprise perhaps the most vital component of the Democratic Party.[10] A majority of liberals favor diplomacy over military action, stem-cell research, the legalization of same-sex marriage, secular government, stricter gun control and environmental protection laws as well as the preservation of abortion rights. Immigration and cultural diversity is deemed positive; liberals favor cultural pluralism, a system in which immigrants retain their native culture in addition to adopting their new culture. They tend to be divided on free trade agreements and organizations such as NAFTA. Most liberals oppose increased military standing and the display of the Ten Commandments in public buildings.[8]

This ideological group differs from the traditional organized labor base. According to the Pew Research Center, a plurality of 41% resided in mass affluent households and 49% were college graduates, the highest figure of any typographical group. It was also the fastest growing typological group between the late 1990s and early 2000s.[8] Liberals include most of academia[11] and large portion of the professional class.[5][6][7]

Many progressive Democrats are descendants of the New Left of Democratic presidential candidate Senator George McGovern of South Dakota; others were involved in the presidential candidacies of Vermont Governor Howard Dean and U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio; and still others are disaffected former members of the Green Party. The Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) is a caucus of progressive Democrats, and is the single largest Democratic caucus in the House of Representatives. Its members have included Dennis Kucinich, John Conyers (Michigan), Jim McDermott (Washington), John Lewis (Georgia), the late Senator Paul Wellstone (Minnesota), Barbara Lee (California), Sherrod Brown (Ohio), and Bernie Sanders (I-VT).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en...

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By Jo*in*Vermont on Dec 23, 2007 6:45 AM EST

Phil - I was writing my post and missed your weather report - bless you, I hope the cold doesn't settle in long.  my 2+ feet of snow has gone from light and fluffy to packed slush - the driveway will be bare by tonight but my guess is your weather will soon be here!  they say wind and rain all day today - I just finished 3 days of baking and cooking and today is truly my day of rest!

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By Susan Rowe on Dec 23, 2007 6:46 AM EST
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By Jo*in*Vermont on Dec 23, 2007 6:59 AM EST

interesting wiki Susan - thank you! 

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By Jo*in*Vermont on Dec 23, 2007 7:01 AM EST

heh heh - this is good:

Gore's Green Home

Give Al Gore credit for putting his money where his mouth is. Gore recently completed renovations to his Tennessee mansion to make it a model of energy efficiency and sustainable design. The home now boasts solar panels, geothermal heating and a rainwater collection system. He also replaced the home's incandescent bulbs with compact fluorescent bulbs, which as Bob Vila fans know, are about 100 times more efficient. As a result of the improvements, Gore's electric bill was down 11 percent this past summer. Not bad considering most homes in the area used 20 to 30 percent more electricity than the previous year during a record heat wave.

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By * rdorgan on Dec 23, 2007 8:07 AM EST

"it's a Small World after all ...":

Mongolian Peacekeepers stand guard in Freetown in 2006. The ...

Mongolian Peacekeepers stand guard in Freetown in 2006. The Security Council on Friday unanimously agreed a final extension of the mandate of the UN peacebuilding office in Sierra Leone until next September 30, in line with UN chief Ban Ki-moon's request.(AFP/File/Issouf Sanogo)

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By Monica Smith on Dec 23, 2007 8:09 AM EST

Mornin' Phil and Jo and Susan.  We've got fog.  Guess that's what shut down O'Hare yesterday. 

Unfortunately, Phil, I'm not sure that a lot of things can be taught.  People have to have experiences.  After they have them, it probably helps to have them explained as part of a larger context.  I majored in political science and didn't know a thing about government when I left college.  The only thing that made a lasting impression was the mock conventions we held in PA and that almost turned me off entirely since I'm not fond of any kind of circus.  Not keen on sharing emotional experiences.  Probably why I don't like movies either.  Movies are designed to elicit emotions. 

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By Michael Ellis on Dec 23, 2007 8:35 AM EST

 Movies are designed to elicit emotions. 

____________________________________________________________________________

Well, Monica, I bet youre a bundle of laughs when movies like "Scrooge", "Its  Wonderful Life", Rudolph and Old Yeller are on.................

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By * rdorgan on Dec 23, 2007 8:37 AM EST

25.

You forgot "A Christmas Story"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085334/

A Christmas Story

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By Imn2Paine on Dec 23, 2007 9:04 AM EST

Movies are designed to elicit emotions.

<

Here ya go, Monica.  It is a bit rough and over-the-top, but...

Video: Ashton Kutcher Christmas Card

http://elbo.ws/video/jOTSbr9df6w/

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By Monica Smith on Dec 23, 2007 9:06 AM EST

25.  I don't watch TV.

What's funny is that the spouse is a movie-holic (used to teach film studies).  Now that there's Netflicks he's got a regular source and watches two or three a day with head phones.  We can sit companionably around the kitchen table, he with his movie and me with my lap top and each "do" our own thing.   LOL 

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By * rdorgan on Dec 23, 2007 9:06 AM EST

kickoff  today at 4:15 pm in Foxboro, MA

try not to Squish the Fish too much (smile)

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By mainefem on Dec 23, 2007 9:07 AM EST

Annilow:

 

You (and Judy) were @Wildwood Stables (through Ellsworth, Trenton, & Rt. #3), which are directly adjacent to the Seal Hbr. entrance (near Jordan Pond House & Bubble Pond areas, etc.).

 

I suntan & beachcomb (low tide is great!)  @Seal Hbr.'s public beach--salt water, & gorgeous  (across the street is the park  entrance to Wildwood Stables) --local access--nothing finer.  That's the ritzy uber-wealthier side of MDI (Martha Stewart, the Rockefellers, etc.).The Schoodic Peninsula part of Acadia Nat'l Park is over "Downeast"--entrance through Gouldsboro & Winter Harbor.

 

It's absolutely on a peninsula! Still wealthy, re: outrageous real estate prices; but more locals still live there & kicking around town  (gotta keep the working class stiffs around).

 

Bar Harbor (proper--intown)  is nothing but a tourist trap; and the locals have been gentrified off the island. 

 

Not as jam-packed w/idiotic tourists as is the MDI part of Acadia...and great for photography, exploring nature, picnics,  & painting, too.

 

A woman who sat beside me @graduation (fellow women's studies student--Judi) is selling her B&B on Isle le Haut (also part of Acadia Nat'l Park)--she must be burned out.

 

From last May--entire areas alongside the Schoodic loop road blanketed with indigeneous partridge berries. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

Purple wildflowers @Frazer Pt. public picnic area (alongside the pier--Winter Harbor side of the Schoodic Pt. loop road).

 

I snapped those pics while a guy was yacking on his f^cking cell phone--ignoring his two young daughters & wife--don't people know that "vacation" means no cell phones??


I felt like hurling it off the end of the pier... 


Larger pic above is the same as those from yesterday (before ice struck--end of May, 2006, during my spring jaunt--low tide, no surf). 

 

I visit the MDI side of the park before the damned tourists invade (before Memorial Day). Traffic is ghastly. 

 

Friends of Acadia help to stave off millions in funding slashed by the shrub regime. 

 

Somehow, I got away w/not paying the damned fee/purchasing a decal for my car.  Nada. 

 

 

Across Frenchman Bay (by land, you have to cut through Trenton to Rt. #1, or deal w/traffic in Ellsworth; via car--head down Rt. #1 on through Hancock, Sullivan, Gouldsboro, & into Winter Hbr.'s entrance.

 

The French Jesuit missionaries (after Samuel de Champlain thought he'd named & explored it--NOT!) thought it would be great fun to "convert" them pesky heathen Wabanaki & Abenaki  Indians to Catholicism--and swipe their land, too. Maine's Native American culture/tribes:    fmi.

 

...along w/the Brits.  Both were in on land swiping; as well as  economic/ethnic/cultural/"religious" cleansing, BTW.

 

 

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By Imn2Paine on Dec 23, 2007 9:09 AM EST

Fish is on the menu today.  Have it any way you want it, all game long.

"Fish hear!  Get ya fish hear!  Fish hear!  Get ya fish hear!"

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By * rdorgan on Dec 23, 2007 9:09 AM EST

and another Florida team comes north --

Orlando Magic at Boston Celtics, 6:30 pm

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By puddle on Dec 23, 2007 9:13 AM EST

Well, it must be morning because Monica's here!

9:14

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By Monica Smith on Dec 23, 2007 9:13 AM EST

I suspect I may have a disability.  Can't remember a thing about movie images.  I think it's the sound that gets to me.

There was this one movie the spouse took me to that I had to walk out of because I started feeling faint.  Had to sit on the floor of the lobby with my head between my knees just like I had to do when I felt faint in church.  For all I know it may have been the chanting then too.  I always thought it was the lack of fresh air.  Anyway, I finally just stopped going--to movies and church.

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By * rdorgan on Dec 23, 2007 9:21 AM EST
35.
Monica Smith
Sun, 12/23/07

...Anyway, I finally just stopped going--to movies and church.+++Please take one of these (see link below), twice a day, and see if that helps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh,_God!

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By mprov on Dec 23, 2007 9:23 AM EST

7. the fact that the preamble begins with "we the people..." all rights are assigned to the people, to people, to persons, to individuals. 8. yes, i agree that it is a limiting document, as such, on the government, but recall that each of the amendments are specific designs of rights. not in any of the amendments, or in the original, is there language that i can find that describes how walmart can robo-call us in the middle of the night with a lie designed to entice us to give them the right to sell us down the river with lead laced products from china that will kill us. let alone sustain a culture or mode of governmental influence...

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By mprov on Dec 23, 2007 9:24 AM EST

oh, and i almost forgot, fuck ron paul...

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By Imn2Paine on Dec 23, 2007 9:26 AM EST

Another softball interview by George Stepsonmyhogalot AGAIN.  Ya know, I just want George to respect my hogs and not not fluff-up the republicans.  Is it too much to wish for.

Yes.

Opportunity is for frat boy.  Err, I should say fraternity brothers, as one never wants to bit the hand which feeds.

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By Imn2Paine on Dec 23, 2007 9:27 AM EST

38.

Sure.  Face down in the dirt.

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By Monica Smith on Dec 23, 2007 9:36 AM EST

37.  Personhood for a group (private corporation) is a tradeoff for being able to hold them accountable for crime by inflicting punishment.  The only accountability we have for a public corporation is to dismiss the miscreant from office--i.e. fire his ass.

That that hasn't happened is the fault of our representatives, whom we will have to fire the next time around.  The congressional elections in 2008 are probably more important than the presidency.  Ever one that hasn't performed up to snuff needs to be challenged in the primaries and in November.  The parties are a convenient organizing mechanism, but performance is what should count in office.  Indi Steve is right about that.

After our primaries are over, I'm going to be making lists.  Jane Harman and Jay Rockefeller are definitely already on the "need to remove" one. West Virginians are having their coal hauled away and what are they getting for it?  Jane Harman's addiction to secrecy warrants her removal.

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By * rdorgan on Dec 23, 2007 9:43 AM EST

well, since church service starts at 10:30 am, I'll miss seeing Bob Schieffer's Face the Nation  this morning: 

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By Imn2Paine on Dec 23, 2007 10:01 AM EST

Monica said,  "The congressional elections in 2008 are probably more important than the presidency."

>

Yup.

Pelosi did good in NOT giving the House Intelligence Committee Chair to Jane Harman. 

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By Denise in San Mateo County on Dec 23, 2007 10:07 AM EST

40

Now I'm blushing! And red from laughter. Mom is asking what's so funny. Better not tell her.

9:10 CT here with winds of about 50mph - wind chills of 5 below.

Nice welcome home - not!

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By * rdorgan on Dec 23, 2007 10:11 AM EST

44.

"Baby it's cold outside"

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By Imn2Paine on Dec 23, 2007 10:17 AM EST
44.


Denise

> mprov started it.  I was just an accomplice. 

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By Denise in San Mateo County on Dec 23, 2007 10:16 AM EST

I come here for mom but threaten Hawaii every year.

My goal is to visit different parts of Europe during Chritmas, too. The family will have to understand in a few years or so cuz I sure ain't getting any younger!

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By Imn2Paine on Dec 23, 2007 10:18 AM EST

Should warm into the upper 40s here.  Warm enough to spoil fish.

-5...humph, that's victory weather for Brett ;) 

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By Denise in San Mateo County on Dec 23, 2007 10:22 AM EST

We're ready for Favre - were ready last time we met him, too. I have to figure out a way to avoid Lake Shore Drive on my way to donna's today. We are having brunch around noontime.

Gonna be quite chilly on the lake - go Bears!!

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By Susan Rowe on Dec 23, 2007 10:41 AM EST

new thread

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By Sitka on Dec 23, 2007 12:29 PM EST

The congressional elections in 2008 are probably more important than the presidency.

The primaries are most important. Only if good Democrats run in them, challenge bad ones, and win, will the fall elections really matter.

There still doesn't seem to be any large, organized, movement to make that happen -- still too many only see the Democrat/Republican label difference as what matters most. 

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