Dean is first.  Oops, I said it again!

I second that Tom!

FROM THE THREAD POST:

For most of this Congress our party has behaved not as a strong majority with an unprecedented mandate for change, but as a shell-shocked shadow of its former self. Being afraid of schoolyard taunts will not suffice when real lives are on the line.

Let'shear it from the Democratic uberloyalists!

MORE HAPPY TALK FROM JIM KUNSTLER

http://www.kunstler.com/

      Events are driving us now, not personalities or even policies. Ben Bernanke, Hank Paulson, and the other characters in the headlines might pretend that they are managing things, but the truth is that problems in the financial sector have spun wildly out of control. The wheels are coming off and we are in that long sickening moment of sideways sliding motion when no attempt at steering will avail to avoid the crash. That it is happening at the very height of the Christmas season, when events have previously been controllable -- the season of manufactured Santa Claus rallies and $50 million bonuses -- shows how perilous the situation is.
     The reason the financial sector is crashing is really pretty simple: it created too many fraudulent securities. What has been conspicuously absent so far is any sense of accountability for what may go down as history's greatest swindle. It's really impossible to imagine that a bunch of low-ranking worker bees in the banking hives spun out all these bundles of collateralized debt obligations, mortgage-backed securities, and similar trash on their own without the say-so of their bosses -- a group that includes the current Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. Paulson, formerly CEO of the Goldman Sachs organization. And, of course, the questions naturally follow: what about those in charge of the ratings agencies that awarded AAA status to high-risk junk investments; and where were the banking regulators when outfits like Countrywide Financial, Washington Mutual, and Ditech were handing out miracle mortgages to borrowers without normal qualifications; and where was the Securities and Exchange Commission when the wholesale trade in creatively-engineered debt instruments ramped up to high volume, and what was the board of directors at Merrill Lynch thinking when it allowed disgraced CEO Stan O'Neal to back a truck up to the company loading dock and fill it up with $160 million in bonus-and-termination payments after O'Neal presided over at least $8 billion in losses?

If our representatives really need to feel afraid of something, let them be afraid of the consequences of inaction. Let them be afraid of the damage wrought by an unchecked administration’s overreach. Let them be afraid of the effects, here and in Iraq, of an unending war. Let them be afraid of the risks of having 45 million Americans with no access to health coverage. Let them be afraid of record foreclosures and a growing mortgage crisis threatening our economy. And let them be afraid of what our own fears say about our lack of strength in the face of adversity.

If only they were afraid there would be hope they might find courage.

But they are complicit and will never find conscience.

More people are waking up to it all the time it seems. This is a good year for reformers like you......

Mike Waltner

Candidate for Congress, PA-03

From the previous thread

11.

Mike Cooper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_(name)

Congratulations to the Carter family!

Please send pictures.

Brag on and on and on.


http://www.roycarterforcongress.com/news...

I hope you're watching C-SPAN.

Senators Leahy and Kennedy were amazing.

Vote is on a Feingold Amendment.

I would like the clock back.

Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007

a pernicious piece of crap 

Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007

a pernicious piece of crap

Being herded along by the Dem leadership I assume? 

18.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 12/18/07

Guess you're following Obama's lead and attacking Edwards now, is that it?

...

+++

Indy -

You really seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill.

Over the weekend, Edwards started all this by taking on Obama.  Obama seemply responded.

http://www.altoonaherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071218/NEWS09/712180395

Obama, Edwards find ways to clash

By THOMAS BEAUMONT
REGISTER STAFF WRITER

Spencer, Ia. -- A skirmish has broken out between Democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and John Edwards, a first for these two leading contenders in Iowa.

Their dispute over health care policy details and curbing the influence of moneyed interests is far from the sharp and sustained criticisms the two have leveled at Hillary Clinton.

...

But the two candidates have begun drawing lines between them, a sign of what is at stake for them in the Jan. 3 caucuses, observers say.

...

Obama's comments and similar challenges to Edwards' key campaign message of attacking corporate interests came on the heels of a weekend when Edwards argued he would be more likely than Obama to win the 2008 election.

Edwards, a former North Carolina senator, also said Obama has a less aggressive approach to challenging corporate lobbyists' sway than he does.

"I believe that Barack Obama's philosophy does not match the reality that corporate greed cannot be stopped by asking politely," Edwards said during a campaign stop in Dubuque. "I know you have to fight these people."

The new confrontation between Edwards and Obama shows how tight the race in Iowa is, Democratic strategist Steve Jarding said.

"Neither can afford to finish third in Iowa," said Jarding, who has advised past Democratic presidential campaigns, including Edwards' prior to his 2004 bid. "They are trying to be the anti-Hillary candidate. And, frankly, it's surprising they waited this long."

...

The squabble reached a new level over the weekend, after Edwards questioned Obama's electability and commitment to fighting special interests.

"He talks about bringing drug companies, insurance companies ... to the table and working with them and negotiating and compromising," Edwards said. "I just think that'll never work"

Obama countered during stops across northwest Iowa Sunday and Monday that drug and insurance companies warrant inclusion in health care talks, albeit no more than any other group such as medical professionals and patients.

"What I also know is that if you don't listen, then you're not going to get much done, even when you're dealing with drug and insurance companies," he said Sunday in Emmetsburg.

After a campaign stop in Storm Lake, Obama played down the conflict, attributing it to a competitive race.

The former president isn't the only person in the campaign with links to funds in the Cayman Islands. Former North Carolina Senator John Edwards, who is also seeking the Democratic nomination, was a senior adviser to Fortress Investment Group Inc., a New York-based private-equity and hedge-fund manager, and reported at least one asset, the Investments Fund III (Fund D) LP, that was incorporated in the Cayman Islands in 2004.

Edwards, who was the first candidate to criticize tax preferences for the private-equity industry, also pays taxes as if the money was earned in the U.S., spokesman Eric Schultz told the Washington Post in May. Schultz said Edwards, 54, ``believes offshore tax shelters are wrong'' and ``will end them'' if elected. The Edwards campaign didn't immediately respond to a request for comment today.

 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aiQEVoQ5nt5E&refer=home

"Edwards, campaigning Friday in a northeast Iowa town that Obama visited at roughly the same time, suggested the Illinois Democrat's proposed leadership style would not serve him well in reforming health care and fixing other problems.

"'He talks about bringing drug companies, insurance companies ... to the table and working with them and negotiating and compromising,' Edwards said Friday. 'I just think that'll never work. If that would work, it would have worked years ago. If that worked, we'd have universal health care. We don't.'"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

that is the difference between the two candidates

make your choice

Dodd coming up on Keith.

Yikes, Daddy Bush and Bill C. roaming ambassadors?  Did anyone see Hillary's face when Bill wandered off?  This is not an harmonious marriage..........She's trying to control the wind.

 Wake up, Iowa and NH.

typo - seemply   s/b - simply

we all mistakes, including Edwards, which I have always accepted his apology

Filmmaker Ken Burns endorses Obama

By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer

52 minutes ago

CONCORD, N.H. - Barack Obama picked up an endorsement Tuesday from filmmaker Ken Burns, who said he was disappointed in what he called the negative tone of Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign.

Burns, a Walpole, N.H., resident, said the back-and-forth between Obama and Clinton shows the country needs "a leader who calls upon on each and every one of us to heed the better angels of our nature and not — and not — our basest fears."

"At a time when our politics has descended into cynical slash-and-burn character attacks, Barack Obama has steadfastly presented a positive, unironic agenda for this country," Burns said in a conference call with reporters

...

Schultz said Edwards, 54, ``believes offshore tax shelters are wrong'' and ``will end them'' if elected.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sounds good to me

Franklin Delano Roosevelt would be ashamed at what’s going on with his party in Washington today.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

He would not be alone...many of us X-Democrats are, were and wil be..............and what I dont get, is that all those so called politically savvy types that will defend this party ad nauseum would be scroned by FDR Im quite certain....................

Feingold is a Democrat last time I checked Mike.

14.

already have made my choice

I have more HOPE than ANGER

In some peoples' eyes there's something wrong with me ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/opinion/18brooks.html

Op-Ed Columnist

Hillary Clinton has been a much better senator than Barack Obama. She has been a serious, substantive lawmaker who has worked effectively across party lines. Obama has some accomplishments under his belt, but many of his colleagues believe that he has not bothered to master the intricacies of legislation or the maze of Senate rules. He talks about independence, but he has never quite bucked liberal orthodoxy or party discipline.

...

But they are running for president, and the presidency requires a different set of qualities. Presidents are buffeted by sycophancy, criticism and betrayal. They must improvise amid a thousand fluid crises. They’re isolated and also exposed, puffed up on the outside and hollowed out within. With the presidency, character and self-knowledge matter more than even experience. There are reasons to think that, among Democrats, Obama is better prepared for this madness.

Many of the best presidents in U.S. history had their character forged before they entered politics and carried to it a degree of self-possession and tranquillity that was impervious to the Sturm und Drang of White House life.

Obama is an inner-directed man in a profession filled with insecure outer-directed ones. He was forged by the process of discovering his own identity from the scattered facts of his childhood, a process that is described in finely observed detail in “Dreams From My Father.” Once he completed that process, he has been astonishingly constant.

Like most of the rival campaigns, I’ve been poring over press clippings from Obama’s past, looking for inconsistencies and flip-flops. There are virtually none.

...

Moreover, he has a worldview that precedes political positions. Some Americans (Republican or Democrat) believe that the country’s future can only be shaped through a remorseless civil war between the children of light and the children of darkness. Though Tom DeLay couldn’t deliver much for Republicans and Nancy Pelosi, so far, hasn’t been able to deliver much for Democrats, these warriors believe that what’s needed is more partisanship, more toughness and eventual conquest for their side.

But Obama does not ratchet up hostilities; he restrains them. He does not lash out at perceived enemies, but is aloof from them. In the course of this struggle to discover who he is, Obama clearly learned from the strain of pessimistic optimism that stretches back from Martin Luther King Jr. to Abraham Lincoln. This is a worldview that detests anger as a motivating force, that distrusts easy dichotomies between the parties of good and evil, believing instead that the crucial dichotomy runs between the good and bad within each individual.

...

What Bill Clinton said on “The Charlie Rose Show” is right: picking Obama is a roll of the dice. Sometimes he seems more concerned with process than results. But for Democrats, there’s a roll of the dice either way. The presidency is a bacterium. It finds the open wounds in the people who hold it. It infects them, and the resulting scandals infect the presidency and the country. The person with the fewest wounds usually does best in the White House, and is best for the country.

rdorgan

didn't see any anger in John Edwards Friday, except for that little carburation mixture Paul Wellstone talked to me about when you view injustice and before you are caused to act out of love

what are you hoping for?

my guess someone who is just angry enough at the current state of affairs to act out of love

How the Government Will Toll Existing Roads http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh6zbbFDfPY

Lots of Ospama

Knife At Lunch Gets 10-Year-Old Girl Arrested At School

wftv | December 18, 2007

OCALA, Fla. -- A 10-year old Ocala girl brought her lunch to school and a small kitchen knife to cut it. She now faces a felony charge after being arrested. The school and the sheriff's office disagree on the reason for the arrest.

School officials say the 5th grader was brown-bagging it. She brought a piece of steak for her lunch, but she also brought a steak knife. That's when deputies were called.

It happened in the cafeteria at Sunrise Elementary School. The 10-year-old used the knife to cut the meat.

"She did not use it inappropriately. She did not threaten anyone with it. She didn't pull it out and brandish it. Nothing of that nature," explained Marion County School Spokesman Kevin Christian.

(Article Continues Below)

But a couple of teachers took the utensil and called the sheriff. When deputies arrived, they were unable to get the child's parents on the phone, so they arrested her and took her to the county's juvenile assessment center.

"And we didn't handcuff her or treat her like a criminal. But, we took her to the assessment center to be assessed," said Capt. James Pogue, Marion County Sheriff's Office.

School officials said it doesn't matter what the knife was being used for. They said they had no choice.

"Anytime there's a weapon on campus, yes, we have to report it and we aggressively report it because we don't want to take any chances, regardless," Christian said.

But the sheriff's office said the extreme measures in what some may say was a harmless incident had to do with school policy, not theirs.

"But once we're notified, we have to take some type of action," Pogue explained.

The student now faces a felony charge for the possession of a weapon on school property and the principal suspended her for ten days. The parents of the girl could not be reached for comment.

The sheriff's office has turned the case over to the State Attorney's Office.

a kindergarten teacher has hope that when she says "quiet time" all of her little charges lay down on their rugs

What happened to the Obama campaign of "staying above the fray", of "staying positive"?

Please, Obama campaign -- stick with that positive goal and not with counter-attacking Edwards. If Edwards is attacking Obama it means that Edwards is trying to goad Obama into a dragging down IA leader Obama's poll numbers game, and in that game, old Iowan caucus pro Edwards will most likely beat Obama and win the dem caucus.

25.

to make up for your anti-Ospama

Drudge headline - saying John Edwards had a mistress - developing.  I hope he's wrong -

drudgereport.com

...

what are you hoping for?

+++

Phil -

Thanks for asking.

What I'm hoping more than anything else in this country ?

Heal the partisan-divide that Bushco greatly escalalted but was already partly there in Clinton years, and earlier.

Revenge politics won't heal nothing in the nation IMO -- it will simply just provide oxygen to the out-of office neocons.

Take their oxygen away but not using their tactics and IMO we'll have a uniter leader, we'll be a uniter nation and peoples to the rest of the world.

Maybe I'm naive.

But at least I'm spelling it out here of how I feel and think.

Hopefully this blog and DFA find me to fit rather quite well here ?

Drudge headline - saying John Edwards had a mistress -

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

not a chance

If Obama and Edwards get into it in a very nasty way, Hillary wins.

And if Hillary wins the gen'l, the repugs win again. 

Buckles is a very smart.

Thanks Monica.

Thank YOU Senator Dodd!

rdorgan

peace be my wish to you

even Jesus himself got ticked enough to tip over the tables of the money changers in the temple though

Edwards saves his nasty charges for the special interests in Washington who have stolen our government seashell.

Hillary is the only woman in the race and that gives her a gender card to play, and she has.

36.

Phil -

yep, I said I have more HOPE than ANGER

I did not say I have no ANGER

Cryptogon
December 17th, 2007

Nothing frightens me more than stories like this. All the rest of it, and I mean ALL the rest of it, is child’s play compared to this.

What can be done to stop this? Anything!?

I know, you’re probably thinking, “Kevin, it can’t be that bad.”

Type genetically engineered Klebsiella into any search engine. If you’re not prepared for what you’re about to read, I suggest wearing a diaper to avoid any unfortunate accidents.

33.

I don't respect Drudge

27.

Phil Specht
Tue, 12/18/07


I never had a problem with getting my class of pre-schoolers to take a nap. I always read them a interesting story as they entered into twilight time.

January 26, 2007

The 28,200-square-foot Edwards home in Orange County is expected to be valued at more than $6 million.

RALEIGH — Presidential candidate John Edwards and his family recently moved into what county tax officials say is the most valuable home in Orange County. The house, which includes a recreational building attached to the main living quarters, also is probably the largest in the county.

“The Edwardses’ residential property will likely have the highest tax value in the county,” Orange County Tax Assessor John Smith told Carolina Journal. He estimated that the tax value will exceed $6 million when the facility is completed.
 hes for the workin man lol   CFR<{  member hes a made man.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHsYHMJR1_k 

Twilight Time

Members of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission dominate key positions in America's government, military, industries, media outlets and educational foundations and institutions. The following is a partial list of current CFR members and the positions of influence they hold in society. The CFR's membership is limited to 3,000, and there are only 325 Trilateral Commission members.

CFR = Member of the Council on Foreign Relations
TC = Member of the Trilateral Commission
BB = Member of the Elite Bilderbergs

David Rockefeller, Chairman Emeritus
Peter G. Peterson, Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations
58 E. 68th St. New York, NY 10021
Phone (212) 734-0400
Fax (212) 861-1789

Paul Volker, North American Chairman of the Trilateral Commission
345 E. 46 St. New York, NY 10017
Phone (212) 661-1180

President of the United States of America
William Clinton -- CFR, TC, BB

Asst. Sec. for Administration, United Nations
Dick Thornburgh -- CFR

National Security Advisor
Anthony Lake -- CFR

Vice President of the United States of America
Albert Gore, Jr. -- CFR

Secretary Of State
Warren Christopher -- CFR

Secretary Of Defense
Lee Aspin (Deceased)-- CFR

Chairman Joint Chiefs Of Staff
Colin L. Powell -- CFR

Director Central Intelligence Agency
James Woolsey -- CFR

Chairman, Council of Economics Advisors
Laura Tyson -- CFR

Treasury Secretary
Lloyd Bentsen -- Former CFR, BB

Secretary of Interior
Bruce Babbitt -- CFR

Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
Henry Cisneros -- CFR

Secretary of Health & Human Services
Donna Shalala -- CFR, TC

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/cfr-members.htm take a look at the rest of the crooks that  has ruin this country,you might know them?

Congressional approval is at an ALL TIME low -- 11%. Think the voters are feeling, erm, a *tad* betrayed?

9:40 pm

I don't think I want a uniter. I think Edwards and Kucinich are right, Power won't negotiate. We'll need to fight to get back all that has been lost. Reid and Pelosi are uniters so to speak. They negotiate, we lose and there's no fight. I say we need a fighter. Let it be Kucinich, Dodd or Edwards. The others are just not up to this challenge.

Contributions

Securities & Investment
Hillary Clinton (D)
$4,735,730

Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)
$4,506,026

Barack Obama (D)
$4,505,199

Mitt Romney (R)
$3,561,387

Christopher J. Dodd (D)
$2,609,566

John McCain (R)
$1,781,260

John Edwards (D)
$773,600

_______________________________
Commercial Banks
Hillary Clinton (D)
$935,658

Barack Obama (D)
$865,856

Mitt Romney (R)
$600,091

Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)
$598,501

John McCain (R)
$583,700

Christopher J. Dodd (D)
$454,000

Bill Richardson (D)
$164,114

John Edwards (D)
$153,650
__________________________
Hedge Funds
Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)
$1,157,900

Hillary Clinton (D)
$980,700

Barack Obama (D)
$976,574

Mitt Romney (R)
$947,500

Christopher J. Dodd (D)
$915,950

John McCain (R)
$331,850

John Edwards (D)
$252,550
______________________-
Pharmaceuticals/Health Products
Hillary Clinton (D)
$269,436

Barack Obama (D)
$261,784

Mitt Romney (R)
$260,535

Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)
$138,850

Christopher J. Dodd (D)
$84,400

John McCain (R)
$69,300

Bill Richardson (D)
$28,950

Fred Thompson (R)
$26,900

Ron Paul (R)
$20,568

John Edwards (D)
$15,000
_______________________________
Real Estate
Hillary Clinton (D)
$3,939,008

Mitt Romney (R)
$3,271,481

Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)
$2,921,988

Barack Obama (D)
$2,292,188

John McCain (R)
$1,666,880

Bill Richardson (D)
$801,460

Christopher J. Dodd (D)
$716,858

John Edwards (D)
$638,755
_________________
Telephone Utilities
John McCain (R)
$176,800

Hillary Clinton (D)
$106,300

Barack Obama (D)
$84,936

Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)
$38,150

Mitt Romney (R)
$25,200

Fred Thompson (R)
$21,950

John Edwards (D)
$18,761
______________________

Lobbyists
Hillary Clinton (D)
$567,950

John McCain (R)
$340,365

Christopher J. Dodd (D)
$233,875

Mitt Romney (R)
$229,475

Rudolph W. Giuliani (R)
$212,100

Bill Richardson (D)
$134,950

Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D)
$114,460

Fred Thompson (R)
$90,000

Barack Obama (D)
$76,859

Duncan Hunter (R)
$30,900

John Edwards (D)
$18,900

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select...

Did you fall for this?  

Congress at new LOW. Washington Post.  That’s what the Republicans want you to think…article…

”congressional approval ratings dropping this week to 32 percent, a notch below Bush's 33 percent”.   

IN FACT, Congress' approval is higher in the latest Washington Post/ABC News poll.   And the approval rating for "Democrats in Congress" is seven percentage points higher than Bush's .....a fact not noted in the article

http://mediamatters.org/items/200712130008

People LIKE Democrats - people DON'T LIKE Republicans. 

Happy Holidays!

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/23329...

I don't think FDR would be taken in by the media 'blitz' putting down the Democrats and spinning the facts ...like so many are......  I mean, the media IS a Corporation, you know.

 Rove is happy with the 'anti-Democratic Progressive Movement'.   There is more negativity on 'Democrats' in here than on any Republicans -- the one's who DID this, and continue to DO the evil and hurt the country.  I would guess that if 'half' the energy used to try to demoralize the Democrats were used to PRESSURE the Republicans stalling them = much more would get done..

Since when is Drudge being floated here. He's a creep and soooo not credible.

I gave a donation to Dodd today. After seeing his fight on FISA - I thought he earned it.

--------
Nite everyone.

I prefer not to let Edwards, a DLC whore while in office, define the difference between himself and Obama, or any one else. That's my job as a discerning voter.

Schultz said Edwards, 54, ``believes offshore tax shelters are wrong'' and ``will end them'' if elected.

You'd think Edwards has a magic wand or is a hypnotist by way he says he'll just tell everybody what to do and they'll comply. 

Drudge headline - saying John Edwards had a mistress -

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

not a chance

There's always a chance in such matters. And Drudge did get the blue dress thing right. But who cares? B. Clinton has already lowered the bar to the ground in such matters.

Well... Iowans might. Guarding the gate to the presidency for the rest of us is a serious responsibility.

Edwards saves his nasty charges for the special interests in Washington who have stolen our government

Having worked for them, he's qualified to know.

Turns out it isn't just Drudge talking about an Edwards affair.

From Wonkette...... 

People LIKE Democrats - people DON'T LIKE Republicans.

Sam's Daily Affirmation....

"Democrats are good enough, they're smart enough, and doggone it, people like them."

I noticed that Kucinich never appeared on that bribe list. Maybe that's why he can't afford an office in Iowa and they feel slighted by him? 

I'm also sending money to Dodd.

Who cares who slept with whom?  I want someone who'll restore the Constitution and our rights. 

Important to remember to say this to the "Adam and Eve were the first people" yo-yos.

One woman, one man, 2 sons, Cain and Abel.  What had to happen to populate the earth?  

Incest is a evangelical value! 

***************************** 

I agree we need a fighter, clean and angry.  Dodd fits the bill.  Tonight, if I closed my eyes, he sounded a lot like our Howard.

Phil, any chance you'll switch to Dodd? 

WAKE UP, IOWA.   

ATTN:  West Coast

Boston Legal is about foreclosures and going green tonight.  Should be a great program. 

Good morning, BFA & sea! We're back in Suisse right now, after a lovely 10 days working our way from Vienna to Nuremberg & back and taking in several of the local Christmas markets along the way.

What a lot of history there is in each little place and how much those who are not able to travel are missing. Of course, now that the USD is at all-time lows, it's much more expensive.

The best thing is how nice most people are and how much we all have in common. I am definitely going back to Nuremberg for a longer stay. Nuremberg was the city selected by Adolf H. to be the capital of his Thousand Year Reich (it had previously been the "unofficial" capital of the Holy Roman Empire and Adolf was very conscious of the symbolism. It was also the site of huge Nazi rallies and intended to be the site of even larger ones. It was heavily bombed by the Allies during WWII but has now been completely rebuilt ... what a difference between the Marshall Plan and putzCo's Rape of Iraq!

The city was, of course, the site of the post WWII Nuremberg trials. If there is any justice at all, the precedents set there by the US will apply to our contemporary war criminals. While time did not allow for us to go through the Palais de Justice where the trials were held during this visit, we did see the outside of the courtroom where the proceedings took place.

The local Xmas market has been held there for hundreds of years and is full of wooden Christmas items, local delicacies, and LOTS of sausages and gluhwein (hot spiced wine).

On our return to Vienna, among others, we paid a visit to the Imperial Apartments at the Winter Palace featuring, among other things, sets of cutlery, table decorations, and porcelain crockery to take care of a household of 5,000. The Hapsburg emperors ruled central and eastern Europe for more than 600 years and only ceased after the death of the Emperor Franz Joseph. FJ's personal life held much tragedy. His brother, aka the Emperor Maximilimian of Mexico, was executed there. His son and heir committed suicide (check out one film version of this story in *Mayerling* with Omar Sharif & Catherine Deneuve). His adored wife Elizabeth (Sisi) was assassinated near here in Geneva. There is a film trilogy of her (fictionalized) life with the actress Romy Schneider. Finally, it was the assassination of his nephew and new heir, the Archduke Francis Ferdinand, that touched off WWI. Power certainly had its price for FJ and yet, as emperors go, his reign was not all that bad.

But how a wannabe emperor like putz can manage to bring our great country practically to its knees in just seven short years is astounding. Of course, he's had lots of help and too much complicity.

So, to sign off this am (still completing a short-term contract here), good thread post, Mike. And please stay the way you are now if you are successful!

worth repeating.....

But how a wannabe emperor like putz can manage to bring our great country practically to its knees in just seven short years is astounding. Of course, he's had lots of help and too much complicity.

Will we ever see an end to the destruction of the CM?

FCC Votes to Ease Media Ownership Restrictions
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/121807R.shtml
Peter Kaplan of Reuters reports: "The Federal Communications Commission voted on Tuesday to loosen media ownership restrictions in the 20 biggest US cities, despite objections from consumer groups and a threat by some US senators to revoke the action."
 

P.M. Carpenter: Our "Lord of the Idiots" and the Promise of the Costanza Effect 12/18

We have only Dodd standing between us and the spy state.  Vote Dodd for president.

The Dem-Republican Senate Consensus to Create a Spy State: "What Lichtblau, Risen and Shane [of the New York Times] are describing is the dawn of a new National Surveillance State in the United States, a public-private partnership. And the object of this partnership—which emerges as a criminal conspiracy, quite literally, between telecom companies and the Bush Administration—is to watch and listen to you and everything you do."

from above article

******************** 

So the United States intelligence agencies in cahoots with major telecom providers are intercepting and reviewing your communications. This is occurring without warrants. And the legal community is in accord: it was criminal conduct. And that’s why the Bush Administration is frantically pushing right now for immunity: to ensure that its collaborators face no adverse consequences from their criminal acts. What kind of society does this sound like?

Now let’s tack on one further extremely disturbing fact. One telecom company said “no.” It was Qwest. The Qwest response to overtures was simple: “We’d love to work with you on this. But you do need to change the law so we can do it legally.” Apparently as soon as that happened, Qwest lost a series of important government contracts. And the next thing you know, the Justice Department was feverishly working on a criminal investigation looking at Qwest’s CEO on insider trading allegations—amidst very strange dealings between the Justice Department and the federal judge hearing the case. Of course, this is all the purest coincidence. Or maybe not. What kind of society does this sound like?

This is not the America we used to live in. It is not a nation that stood as a bulwark for civil liberties. It is a nation with an executive who is drunk on power. An executive who refuses to respect the legal constraints established by the Constitution, and even the criminal law.

The intrigue and skullduggery doesn't get any better than this...which sound like tin foil hat stuff but is actually the neo-con grab for power.  If Huckabee is our next prez, the neo-con RW fruitcakes will have captured the country.  If the Clintons win, the corps will continue to destroy us and war will be endless and relegated to the back pages.  IMO.  Lose/lose either way.

Gore/Dodd

I'm thinking Mexico and than traveling from there to and from Argentina and back here for visits, if this is doable.

The Permanent Republican Majority Series:

Part I: Political Prisoner

Part II: Interview with Governor Don Siegelman's Daughter

This whole last 7 years, at least, has been a conspiracy to grab all three branches of gov't and take over, as in dick tater.  The word conspiracy needs to be treated with the respect it deserves.

Good nite, All. 

This is fascinating.

Good morning, everybody

My thought for the day: "pick a president"

Some people don't like to be told to vote.  LOL 

70.  At this point it really doesn't matter what Bush Two signs or vetos since he doesn't follow the law either way.  The only thing members of Congress can do now is go through the motions of setting their record straight because the whole house is going to be up for election again and a third of the Senate.

68.  Well, actually, it's not really directed at ordinary Americans.  It's directed at other nations.  Instead of using the threat of military force to make them comply with U.S. directives, the idea is to target their commercial, industrial, financial and military electronic communications and disrupt or take down their systems.  Much cleaner and neater to wage war in cyber space, don't you know?  Now, the argument behind this scheme is that China's going to do it and they can do it easier because the government controls/owns the communications networks and the U.S. networks being owned by private corporations is a disadvantage.  That's why the private corporations had to be suborned.  Besides, the American people aren't likely to let their government do this kind of stuff out in the open, so it has to be a secret.  But, in the interest of making sure that the U.S. stays the lone super power it's all OK.  Never mind that in reality the mantle of super power has already gone up in smoke.

There is not a "vast right wing conspiracy."

There sure is a vast national delusion among the ruling elite.

Hillary Clinton is qualified to be president because the people of the 82

nations she visited as First Lady already love her. 

65.  This is just the culmination of thirty years of effort.  The antagonists of the civil rights era were certain that the nation was going to be ruined by the elimination of the ruling class and they've been working over time to make it happen.  It's been a self-destructive enterprise.

Well I found out who was doing the push poll.

ABC News, the results are in todays news.

That poll is twice as flawed statistically as the pulsepoll we did  at DFA

garbage in garbage out

To get a BS degree when I was a student Statistics was a requirement. Who ever designed the ABC poll never saw the inside of that classroom.

Iowa has had three professional campaigns and they have been identifying supporters for months and will turn them out.

The news coming out of Iowa will be the fourth place finisher. Dodd has to leapfrog both the Out, Now. Richardson, and the man with a plan, Biden.

Dodd won't scare business and could fill in for Hillary in some minds if she sinks, the large field math means if he rises now it just further divides the anti-Hillary vote.

so if you are really more anti-Hillary than pro-Dodd you simply want Edwards and Obama to put her in third, and the same holds true if you are just pro-Dodd

has less to do with the candidates and more to do with the mathematics of dividng a large field

Chris Dodd has all of the attributes of a candidate fitting the requirements of the office he is seeking.

so do all the rest

this is a strong field

A President gets maybe three priorities through. weigh restoring the Constitution against Universal Health Care or ending the war, and you will come up with three different choices

If changing the tone in Washington is your chief concern, another choice is clear.

If breaking the glass ceiling is number one you have a clear choice too.

what is being decided at this stage is the allocation of delegates to the nominating convention in Denver for the slot on the ballot designated for the Democratic Party

so the choice is a statement of what it is that Democrats stand for, and you who have left the party have to wait your turn til the General

but in Iowa we will welcome you back on caucus night, if you want to weigh in

Breaking News
Edwards takes lead in InsiderAdvantage Iowa poll

By Tom Baxter
Southern Political Report
December 18, 2007 -

John Edwards has leapfrogged over his rivals Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, and leads the Democratic field in Iowa, according to the latest InsiderAdvantage/Majority Opinion poll. In the Republican caucus race, Mike Huckabee continues to hold a narrow lead over Mitt Romney.

The race among the three top Democrats is extremely close, with the potential for any of them to finish first - or third.

Edwards leads with 30 percent in a poll of Democratic voters who said they intend to participate in the Jan. 3 presidential caucuses, followed by Clinton with 26 percent and Obama with 24 percent. When the sample was narrowed to the most likely caucus-goers, based on several questions, Obama leads Edwards by less than a percentage point with 27 percent, with Clinton in third place at 24 percent.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

here is an unbiased statistically valid poll for those following such things

my seat of the pants opinion is that it is a three way tie, too close to call

Bring back the clock (in some form), please.

Down with wrote,!

Long live Posted! 

7:29

speaking of clock -- 

anyone ever see this movie ?

7:29

anyone ever see those bumper stickers with the phrase: "my dog is smarter than your honor student"  ?

Well:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//071218/ids_photos_ts/ra3633411559.jpg/

Philip (R), the dominant chimpanzee at Tacugama reserve, sits in an enclosure with other orphaned chimps outside Sierra Leone's capital Freetown, August 14, 2007. Chimps performed about as well as college students at mental addition, U.S. researchers said on Monday in a finding that suggests non-verbal maths skills are not unique to humans. REUTERS/Daniel Flynn

Bring back the clock (in some form), please.

___________________________________________________________________________

Thats tto advanced for some paine...better strat with a ...........sundial

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/07

___________________________________________________________________________

Well, judging by THAT picture, id say Edwards must have been pretty plastered at the time to have shagged that one............

sundial wouldn't work here this morning with freezing fog

Americans don't just sometimes make poor political choices. With a slick surface and poor visibility many driving by on my road on the way to work this morning are at about half speed, but an amazing number are zipping by at normal speed.

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/0

Citing Drudge and Wonkette, a gossip site. Wow, your standards are high. How low will you go?

Ann Coulter is trying to peddle that "story" from the National Enquirer on Edwards and a supposed affair. And some people here are helping her do it. National Enquirer, Drudge and Coulter....is that your standard for a credible source? Shameful....

This place has become a cesspool.

~~~~~~~~~~~~`

This place looks like American politics. It is a wonder quality candidates run. Every Democrat that runs locally here faces a whisper campaign that they had an affair or had sex with their dog. We can thank Lee Atwater for that. 

Indy Steve

At least we can confirm that Edwards is a front runner.

Push poll alert: 

My mom received an anti-Hillary push poll yesterday.  She fits the most pro-Hillary demographic however, Hillary is well down her list of candidates.  The question I have is who would be  doing an anti-Hillary push poll at this stage of the game?

If we end up in Iowa with two out of three being for someone besides the winner. How does that mean we pick the nominee?

The IRV function of viability gives second choices quite a bit of weight so the "winner" here will prove some appeal across the base of the party.

There are two wildcards, Republican moderate women who can't stand the choices in their party and who have been collected by the Hillary campaign, and the new to politics crowd to whom Obama has appealed.

Edwards has the normal activist Democrats in every poll.He won them four years ago with Kerry pulling in the Vets from outside the party and Dean bringing in the new voters who were anti-war.

but the pool attracted by Clinton and Obama certainly will be welcomed into the Democratic Party after they register as such and we will have their vote in the fall

Phil Specht
Wed, 12/19/07

i suppose it goes along with the territory. Wish he would stay slightly behind the pack for another week or so. Now he will be a target.

Edwards is the one they (corporate, media and political elites) fear most. Expect the dirt to start flying. And they won't use the National Enquirer to do it. I just don't expect to find it here.  Sad.

Kevin

Republicans

 I live in Rural Arizona!  We have suffered the insult of having Rick the Rat Renzi represent us for the last three elections cycles.  Greed, Corruption, Carpetbagger, Bush Buddy.  We are tired of this crap.  Now we have a chance for a decent, genuine candidate. That person is Howard Shanker.

 Wow! A decent human being running for Rick the Rat Renzi's AZ CD-1 seat! How refreshing! Howard is the real deal. He cares, he is committed, and he cares about the issues that are genuine ones. It is time we elect someone who will really represent us, not his daddy's lobby buddies. He cares about the issues that will impact us tomorrow and the rest of tomorrows. He has the passion, the human qualities we need, and the honesty to carry out his duties as an elected representative should. We need Howard here in AZ as well as in DC to fight big corporations and corruption.

Howard needs our support to help bring government accountable. Accountability is a big point with Howard Shanker and when have we seen that lately in politics? He has an uphill battle also, because the DCCC seems to anoint candidates they choose instead of who we, the voters choose. If you have friends, relatives,or associates here in one of the biggest geographic districts in American, Arizona Congressional District 1, write them, call them, email them, blog them about voting for Howard Shanker in the upcoming primary election and general election. We have to make a difference in our future and Howard Shanker can help us do that.

We have met the candidates for this office and Howard is the only one who is willing to give 110% with integrity, honesty, and compassion for those who are in need. He will ensure equality for us for a change!

It is time to take a stand. I now consider Howard Shanker to be a friend and I will stand up with him and for him. Will you?

Pat George
Camp Verde, AZ 

"There are several good protections against temptation, but the surest is cowardice." Mark Twain

Phil,

I would expect that the republicans would want Hillary to win the primary because I think that she is a weak general election candidate because of the political baggage that she brings with her.

Kevin

Good luck with Richardson. He does have the best beerability.Something about gender politics. Head to head with the Orange Bowl will give Hillary with her demographic of women an extra point or two, and college being out will cost Obama one or two, and the weather effects new voters more than old hands and will swing the vote up to three or four points. Richardson is the second choice of quite a few I talk to.

 He has an uphill battle also, because the DCCC seems to anoint candidates

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

good luck Pat, that is a true statement

Thanks Phil,

In the phone calling that I've done, Richardson seems to be the second choice of about half of the people.  And as we both know, second choices do make a difference.  So I am optimistic that Richardson will perform above expectations in the caucuses. 

I want to commend Indy for sticking to his guns with his unwavering support for Edwards' nomination.  Phil and seashell's vacillation between two war supporters, Edwards and Dodd, make it seem like this born again populist crusader and long time champion of business and security interests are freely interchangable.  Is this symptomatic of buyer's remorse?

http://www.petitiononline.com/everyman/petition.html  

Richardson is the only candidate that keeps hammering away at ending the Iraq War and so has attracted many anti-war voters.

Obama never voted for the war.

Going back to my original prediction that the winner in Iowa would be an anti-war candidate, it would be between those two.

bbl

Webb and Tester vote for unrestricted funding on Iraq. So much for loyalty to the progressive grassroots. They are a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT. Voted against Feingold's amendment which would have put timelines on the funding.  Here are those Dems who voted with the Repubs. to give Bush a blank check. Will they be accountable?

YEAs ---70Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)

Yesterday, I received a robocall from Ron Paul, of all people, in Michigan if you can believe it.  For those interested, and there must be at least one of you, the recorded Paul stressed two main issues:  secuity against the threat of terrorism and security against the flood of illegal immigrants. 

Well, there's your candidate. Presumably, Bush's military folly doesn't rate as an issue of concern for those whom Paul perceives as his base supporters.

Phil Specht
Wed, 12/19/07

Not true. Edwards and Obama will end the war. The difference is the time frame. Richardson pledges to remove troops more quickly.

It looks like Hillary's helicopter will be flying close to my place since she is coming from Independence on her way to Elkader.  I wonder if my dogs will bark more than normal.......

Tom Bearse
Wed, 12/19/07

Thanks, I think ;-) But if I've made a mistake, I would recognize it and make corrections. I don't bounce around once I've made up my mind.

And one error in your post. Edwards is NOT a war supporter. Both Edwards and Obama would end the war/occupation.

Indy wrote "And one error in your post. Edwards is NOT a war supporter."

My apologies.  If I had that stain to contend with, I'd shout it out, too.

Bush threatened a veto of spending Bill without a blank check for Iraq....and the Congress withered and caved. The Senate voted yesterday...the House will vote today. Call your Representative and demand NO BLANK CHECK FOR BUSH!

It looks like the capitulation to Mr. 25% is complete. Wimps.

Tom Bearse
Wed, 12/19/07

In Tom's world, one can never have a change of heart or mind. We are all stuck with positions we've taken FOREVER. Do you ever make mistakes, Tom? Ever have regrets? Thought so.

Well here's something to be afraid of:

http://bluehampshire.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2805 

Kevin Powell
Wed, 12/19/07

Doesn't Richardson have to get 15% to be considered as a viable 2nd choice? If he polls less than 15% in first vote, isn't he out of the running? So if their 2nd choice is Richardson and he isn't viable, they'd have to choose someone else...

Indy Steve
Wed, 12/19/07

15% by precinct to be viable.   But in every multi-candidate caucus that  I've attended, there has been movement from viable candidates to second choice non viable candidates so those second choices become viable.  That is why I'm optimistic for my first choice Richardson and my second choice Dodd to perform above expectations.

Indy wrote "Do you ever make mistakes, Tom?"

Many.  Have you ever mistakenly authorized a military invasion resulting in the loss of over 3,000 American lives at a cost of over $500 billion?

There seems to be a major fire in the Executive Office Bldg. in Washington.  Don't have more info yet.

Citing Drudge and Wonkette, a gossip site. Wow, your standards are high. How low will you go?

I didn't cite Drudge. And Wonkette dispelled the story.....dummy. 

Dick Cheney's office is in the Executive Office Building.  And probably lots and lots of video tapes.

There seems to be a major fire in the Executive Office Bldg. in Washington.  Don't have more info yet.

Waiting for the terror alert.

Indy Steve

Will they be accountable? 

If you won't hold one who voted to start the Iraq Disaster accountable, why will you hold those who fund it so? 

http://www.press-citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007712190310

Wednesday, December 19, 2007

Obama has what it takes to restore nation's integrity

After seven years of being lost in the wilderness of oppositional presidential politics, Democrats now seem well positioned to do in 2008 what they failed to do in 2004: Replace a rogue cowboy president with a new president capable of uniting the country and resetting the nation's foreign policy and global reputation. The Press-Citizen Editorial Board thinks Illinois Sen. Barack Obama is the best candidate in a well qualified field of Democrats to make those long overdue changes. We endorse his candidacy enthusiastically.

...

39.

Indy Steve
Tue, 12/18/07


Why do we call them "representatives", former? And have elections every once in awhile. Any elected official who gets too out of synch with the electorate doesn't get elected.
--------
Really? Any "who gets too out of synch"?

WHEN???
AFTER years and years of destructive (to the very same "electorate") activity..., under the premises that HE/SHE KNOWS BETTER since he/she "represents" us?!
And most importantly, AFTER destructions HAS BEEN SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED AGAINST INTERESTS of that very same "electorate"?



Do you really believe anyone ought to be in office and not listen to his/her constituents?
---------
Quite to the contrary: NONE ought to be in office, since there should not be one(s), Internet should be used instead.



Or try to represent their views while not compromising their own? yes, it is a difficult balancing act.
-----------
It is complete and absolute confusion which becomes absolutely transparent if "democracy" has been applied as it were supposed to originally, on much lesser scale than for hundreds of millions of People.

Democracy BY DEFINITION is a "majority rule", does not require any "representation"!

118.

Tom Bearse
Wed, 12/19/07

Reply to this

Indy wrote "Do you ever make mistakes, Tom?"

Many. Have you ever mistakenly authorized a military invasion resulting in the loss of over 3,000 American lives at a cost of over $500 billion?
-----------

Hey Tom, I never knew you are such a peacenik!
Btw, Obama haven't promised any definite Iraq withdrawal date.

125.

* rdorgan
Wed, 12/19/07


...Obama has what it takes to restore nation's integrity
-----------

There are no limits to confusions, imo.
People with ultimate values in the rights and abilities of INDIVIDUAL care about "nation's integrity" restoration....

What is that anyway, "nation's integrity" as comparing to "integrity of individual"?

Ivan wrote "Hey Tom, I never knew you are such a peacenik! Btw, Obama haven't promised any definite Iraq withdrawal date."

Why not?  I've declared my opposition to Bush's military escapades since the date I came here It was one of many reasons I became a Dean follower. 

Obama introduced legislation this year that would have had combat troops out of Iraq by the time the primaries ended, but that's immaterial to me.  The important consideration is that he opposed the intervention and has promised to withdraw troops once he is president. 

EXECUTIVE OFFICE BLDG FIRE

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071219/white-house-fire/

The blaze appeared to be located in Vice President Dick Cheney's suite of ceremonial offices on the second floor of the building. Cheney and President Bush were across the street in the West Wing of the White House when the blaze broke out. It appeared to be under control within an hour.

BURNING THE EVIDENCE?

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that the U.S. military invasion is the primary root of the violent differences among them, and see the departure of "occupying forces" as the key to national reconciliation, according to focus groups conducted for the U.S. military last month.

___________________________________________________________________________

4000 dead soldiers.........a noble cause?

Sitka
Wed, 12/19/07

I do. Quit misrepresenting my views. You know my position yet you continue with your asiinine one-liners.

Edwards has recognized his mistake and apologized without any excuses. Which is something Clinton and Biden haven't done. (not sure about Dodd). I accept people's word until they violate it. And the fact someone acknowledges mistakes is a big plus. We've had someone for 8 years who refuses to do so, and I don't want more of that.

The fire in the executive office building is said to appear to have started in an electrical closet.  From what I understand the entire building was remodeled about 20 years ago with new wiring being done at that time.  Any electrical surge that would cause a fire should have been shut down immediately by the circuit breakers that were installed on the circuit without a fire resulting from it.  I personally worked with circuit breaker testing and know that the government standards are quite high for circuit breakers so there really shouldn't have been an electrical problem if everything was installed and pretested correctly.  But it is easy to blame things on 'faulty wiring', especially if you want to get rid of something.....

grab your sewing needles --

-- there's a new thread

A new thread for everyone's enjoyment is now up.

129.

Tom Bearse
Wed, 12/19/07

...I've declared my opposition to Bush's military escapades since the date I came here It was one of many reasons I became a Dean follower.
---------

I remember your opposition to taking "off the table" military options in resolving international affairs and your support of the idea that no prospective President should ever suggest that.

Ivan wrote "I remember your opposition to taking 'off the table' military options in resolving international affairs and your support of the idea that no prospective President should ever suggest that."

Not to alarm you or anything, but that's what I meant.

I do.

Selectively, that is.