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A Greater Appreciation for Peace
Eric Hall hailed from the fine city of Jeffersonville, Indiana. Jeffersonville is a city located on the Ohio River, just north of Louisville, Kentucky. “Jeff”, as its inhabitants have affectionately termed it, is part of Clark County, which was named for General George Rogers Clark (brother of William Clark of the Lewis & Clark expedition). The city of Jeffersonville itself was named for Thomas Jefferson, whose grid design was used as the layout for the city. Some of the localities that Eric Hall grew up with, in Jeffersonville, are Schimpff’s Confectionary (where you can get some of the best chocolate in the country, in my opinion), the Howard Steamboat Museum, and Mick’s Lounge (where the Papa John’s pizza restaurant chain was founded). Eric went to school at Jeffersonville High School, and he graduated from it in 2002. A little while after graduating high school, Eric joined the United States Army, as did many others from small towns where there were few opportunities. He found himself in favor of the goals of the Iraq War and desirous of contributing to the cause. My cousin went to the same school (from first grade through high school) and was friends with Eric, and that is how I first became aquainted with the story of Eric Hall’s Post Traumatic Stress disorder and the events resulting from it.
In June 2005, the Iraq Occupation was in full swing. Eric Hall, now far from Jeffersonville, was traveling the streets of Fallujah in Iraq with fellow United States Marines. When a bomb suddenly exploded very near at hand to Eric and his fellow soldiers, Eric was severely injured, both physically and mentally. He had suffered a severe hip injury, a broken leg, and nerve damage to his arm. As his injuries in that blast were being sustained, he watched one of his fellow soldiers, and his friend, die right before his eyes, decapitated when the bomb went off. Eric Hall’s experience in the Iraq War left him not only suffering from physical pain, but from Post Traumatic Stress disorder as well, brought on by seeing the brutal reality of the war on the ground. Eric was in the hospital for thirteen weeks recovering from his injuries, but, even after that, he experienced pain and had to take pain medication for it. The amount of pain that he suffered from, both physically, and mentally (regarding his memories of war), is immeasurable.
When Eric Hall came home from Iraq and from the hospital, he had trouble getting proper care and benefits from the Veteran’s Administration, just as so many of his fellow veterans did. This is evidenced by the story on wounded veterans in November 2006, done by The Evening News and The Tribune (which proclaims itself as Southern Indiana’s award-winning source for community news), in which Hall was profiled, and he reported having trouble receiving full Veteran’s Administration benefits. All the while that he was struggling with the Veteran’s Administration, he was struggling with his own personal problems concerning pain and his post traumatic stress disorder. The fight with the Veteran’s Administration probably did not help his well-being, and it certainly did not help lessen the level of stress that he felt from the remembrance of his experiences in the Iraq War.
On February 3rd, 2008, Hall was back in the states and out of Iraq, although the memories of the Iraq War were doubtless still with him. His phyiscal pain, however, must have been getting slightly better, because he had recently taken himself off of his pain medication. Almost three years after his war experience, Hall was visiting a relative in Punta Gorda, Florida. Escaping his past and starting a new life was evidently the reason for going to Florida, judging by this statement from Eric’s father, Kevin Hall, “He was going down there to start a new life and get things together — which he was.” But Hall’s efforts to accomplish this were reduced to dust due to the events on the day of February 3rd. After playing a video game titled “Call of Duty: Modern Warfare”, which, I believe, is based on the Iraq War, Eric announced that the house was surrounded and that he had to leave. He was not joking, he was in earnest. Apparently hallucinating and having flashbacks from the Iraq War, he took off on his motorcycle, as though trying to escape invisible enemies. That would be the last time that anyone saw Eric Hall alive.
His motorcycle was found, on its side and still running, along a road. A search was launched around the general area of where the motorcycle was found (Charlotte County in Florida), but searchers were unable to find Eric Hall. Weeks of searching yielded no results. However, they did find a sophisticated “spider hole” dug into the ground, which contained some bottled water and which Hall had likely used as a shelter. Hall’s father, Kevin Hall, commented, “If he went back to full military mentality — he knows how to hide.”
And hide Eric Hall did. A fellow veteran and a fellow sufferer from post traumatic stress disorder, Jim Cannon, said about Hall, “I imagine he thinks he’s in a different place, somewhere in a different time and he probably thinks we’re the enemy looking for him.” Hall hid so well from the searchers that the way that searchers finally discovered him was by the strong odor coming from his decomposed body. It’s an unpleasant statement, but sometimes we have to be confronted with the unpleasant realities of the world. Eric Hall’s body was removed from the culvert, or the conduit used to enclose a flowing body of water, and he was identified using his military medical records.
And so ended the life of Eric Hall. His death was a casualty of the Iraq War, although it is a casualty that will never be recorded in the official record.
With every death that I hear of or observe, I attempt to draw some meaning, some lesson, from the life and death of the person who has died, because I so hate to see a life ending with no lasting meaning. What can we learn from the death of Eric Hall?
Eric Hall’s death can be blamed on a number of things: his lack of pain medication, the “Call of Duty” video game, his post traumatic stress disorder, or the inability to get sufficient help from the Veteran’s Administration. But, I think, looking at the larger picture, the blame should rest ultimately on the Iraq War and the fact that we are sending soldiers off to die or become injured in a war such as this in the first place. Prevention is the key to the solution, just as it is the key to so many other problems that we face. Why add to the suffering of the world, which is already so great, by having people suffer as Eric Hall and other veterans have suffered, in the name of an unjust war which could have easily been avoided? There is too much suffering in this world already without preventable things like this happening. We should be doing all we can to, first of all, stay out of war, and, secondly, if avoiding war is absolutely impossible (and avoidance of war is only very rarely impossible), then we should do everything in our power to help the returning veterans. Humankind and our nation, which is supposedly the first among the nations of humankind but which shows little indication of that, are better than this. We are better than fighting senseless, useless, preventable wars, and then further displaying our immaturities by discarding the veterans of our wars.
To derive one final lesson from the death of Eric Hall, let us return to the area where his life began. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to the Frasier Museum in Louisville, Kentucky. You should go, if you’re ever visiting near Louisville. The museum is about the History of Violence in the world. It has a room full of old guns and weapons, one of which being an old one-shot Derringer from the 1860’s that looks very similar to the one that killed Abraham Lincoln. They also present one-person historical reenactments of historical events, such as the Battle of Hastings (which took place in England in 1066 between King Harold and William, Duke of Normandy, fighting for control of the country). I’ve been to the Frasier Museum twice, while visiting family, and I have found it very enjoyable, although it is not because I revel in violence. There is a quote that resides on a wall on the lower floor of the museum that tells you the museum’s purpose and why the museum was originally founded: by presenting to you the history of violence, it is hoped that you will gain a greater appreciation for peace. May the events surrounding the Iraq War, such as the death of Eric Hall, give you a greater appreciation for peace.
Here it is folks - The Cost of War.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community...
I like how Barack is talking about spending $50 at the pumps - and every family is spending an extra $100 per month for this war. These are sound bites real people can relate to.
Keep hammering that this war (which was authorized by Hill and McAncient) is costing you money.
Geraldine Ferraro just can't keep her boca shut.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_8629143
Obama called in to the Philly sports show. This is a good move!
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_upd...
"The man doesn't seem to have an honest bone in his body. I remember him shilling for Lieberman and saying some horrible things about Lamont.
The man is scary."
_____________________
Mary...you mean Barack Obama? That was the same time Barack Obama called Joe Lieberman his mentor.
***********************************************
Obama is now costing the Democrats the election.
I am hearing from many people, even ones who voted for him in the Primarhy already, that they feel betrayed by Obama and are not going to vote now in the General.
Boy, I just love the Unity Obama has created.
*************************************************
Michigan and Florida Re Do's
Published Thursday, 03/20/08 @ 10:58 am
I would like to ask that all Obama supporters (or not) please contact the
Obama campaign to ask they stop blocking, even ReDo Votes in Michigan and
Florida, so they have a chance for their votes to count.
We all know that Michigan and Florida lost their votes and Delegates when
they moved their Primaries prior to Feb 5. Governor Dean tirelessly
worked to get them to change their dates, even hold a 2nd Primary or
Caucus later on so their votes would count and they could seat their
Delegates. No other plan came to fruition. Hillary has been supporting
the states wishes and has supported, along with Governor Dean, reVotes.
Senator Obama's blocking is claiming a reVote may embarrass the Democratic
Party. WHAT? On the contrary. I and voters can't believe that he would
try to deny voters their opportunity to be heard. Governor Dean has asked
both candidates agree on the solution. Governor Dean supports ReVotes,
Hillary supports ReVotes, Obama will not agree to anything, AND TODAY IS
THE DEADLINE.
FULL POST
http://blogforamerica.com/view/24350
Geraldine Ferraro just can't keep her boca shut.
Somebody needs to tell her that time has past her and her old prejudices by.
Lanny Davis is scary because he has a problem with the truth. But that's the last I'll chat with you until this election is done, Linda. And I write this with a heavy heart.
I would like to ask that all Obama supporters (or not) please contact the
Obama campaign to ask they stop blocking, even ReDo Votes in Michigan and
Florida, so they have a chance for their votes to count.
Thanks for the hate, Linda.
Please explain how Obama is blocking a re-do for McHillary.
Sitka - It isn't worth it.
Later all - gotta get some exercise.
Lanny Davis is scary because he has a problem with the truth.
He's one of those little fishes that swims with the shark.
50.
*** cChalfonte***
Thu, 03/20/08
fred, well over a year ago.....I reminded you that YOU stated you were a Rush-loving Repub until you came upon hard times yourself.
I am paraphrasing but that is a fair representation of your comment.
^That was for clarification and I won't discuss it
==========================================
You reminded me? I never said such a thing. You are scrambling several different statements I made about several different things, and weaving together a fictional story I never had any great love for Rush Limbaugh. I only said that when he had a TV show, I sometimes watched it at the urging of a fellow student, and some things Limbaugh said made me laugh. Even your enemies have something to teach you.
In the 1990's I was disillusioned with both parties. That's when I became poor and disabled.
You know nothing about me or my life... Your statement about me not only revealed how you fabricate stories without facts (something you charge me with) but also reveals a classic "liberal elitist" disposition in your personality, a sterotype that conservatives love point to as irrelevant to real people in the real world, that liberalism is an intellectual indulgence for snot-nosed people who can afford it. President Johnson called them "effete snobs"
I can remember when "liberal" was a bad word. It was like "moderate" today. I was a "radical" - something they call "liberal" today.
I am almost 60 years old and was working for an underground newspaper during the Viet Nam war. I was an acquaitance of Jerry Rubin and Abbey Hoffman. I was a Jimmy Carter fan. Marched against it, and supported the civil rights movement. And until the late 1980s, I always supported Israel, blindly I might add.
Democrats were not always perfect. And our party really sucked at times. Republicans turned out to be worse.
You would be better person to show sensitivity to show hospitality to people converting to true liberal ideals, rather than stage inquisitions to prove who was once a conservative and/or Republicans.
That is what Obama is about. Unity and bringing people together.
12.
Sitka
Thu, 03/20/08
Reply to this
I would like to ask that all Obama supporters (or not) please contact the
Obama campaign to ask they stop blocking, even ReDo Votes in Michigan and
Florida, so they have a chance for their votes to count.
Thanks for the hate, Linda.
Sitka and others, you seem to be confused, it's not me who has been spewing the hate here. I don't know how you all do it. But I'm posting information. As the above comment shows. Oh, I'm sorry, I forget, many here call facts and truth attacking or hate.
Sitka and others, you seem to be confused, it's not me who has been spewing the hate here.
Only because you aren't around much anyone.
Never mind explaining how Obama is blocking Hillary's re-do.
Linda in NM~ Mary...you mean Barack Obama? That was the same time Barack Obama called Joe Lieberman his mentor.
YOU MEAN THE SAME JOE LIEBERMAN THAT AL GORE TRUSTED AS HIS VP RUNNING MATE!?!
You all have personally attacked bloggers who support a Political candidate different from your and call them names. Nice. You all can say the most outrageous things, lies, name calling about others, but if someone posts a TRUTH or FACT about "your candidate, BO" you all go out on attack. Priceless.
Honest, you all don't have to resond to me at all. I much prefer it being I've only received attacks and lies and name calling...oh and demeaning comments, from folks that I've corresponded with for years. Some who even called me a friend.
You all seem to think you can say the most outrageous thing, lie, etc, becuase the end justifies your means. Anything if it can make Obama look better? And you thought that was disgusting from the NeoCons?
And you wonder why so many left here. If this is all you all can be, who wants to be a part of this HATE?
Thank goodness there is alot more outside this circular firing squad.
Sitka, let your fingers do the work. I won't post obvious news that folks are CHOOSING to ignore to make their conscience feel better and then attack me for giving them the news anyhow.
Yes, some of us don't experience short term memory.
ciao!
Linda in NM, you're pathetic. Go spew your HATE elsewhere.
project: to ascribe one's own feelings, thoughts, or attitudes to others.
Linda in NM
Thu, 03/20/08
Reply to this
You all have personally attacked bloggers who support a Political candidate different from your and call them names. Nice. You all can say the most outrageous things, lies, name calling about others, but if someone posts a TRUTH or FACT about "your candidate, BO" you all go out on attack. Priceless
=========================
Tell you what, Linda. If you read Obama's first book, Dreams from My Father, I will read, "It takes a Village" or any other Hillary book there might be.
In other words, you can't explain how Obama is blocking Hillary's re-do.
I knew you couldn't because he hasn't -- which is why I asked.
Karen
Thu, 03/20/08
Reply to this
Linda in NM, you're pathetic. Go spew your HATE elsewhere.
===================
You are spewing hate yourself, Karen. Linda is only viewing the world as she sees it.
As a Michigander I can attest that Obama is NOT blocking Hillary's re-do, the Michigan Republican-controlled legislature is!
Two drug firms charged in France over hepatitis vaccine
Fri Feb 1, 3:25 PM
PARIS (AFP) - Two drug companies are facing charges in France over a hepatitis B vaccine blamed for the death of a 28-year-old woman in 1998 and which caused serious side effects among 1,300 patients.
Smithkline Beecham, now GlaxoSmithKline GSK, and Pasteur Merieux MSD-Aventis Pasteur, now Sanofi Pasteur MSD, are accused of aggravated deceit for failing to disclose the possible side effects from the vaccine, justice officials said Thursday...http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080201/health/france_health_hepatitis_pharma_justice
I thought up an ad campaign for Obama. It might run in the background pieces of his speeches or whatever, juxtaposed with Hill's and McC's. Then it displays his new motto (drum roll) which should be: Do you want a LEADER or a POLITICIAN?
+++++++
Linda NM did you see where Seattle has banned bottled water?
Gotta go - bbl
I love it, I love it, I want more of it. You all show my words to be true.
Karen, yes, I'm pathetic for reporting truth. Just like you think I have no place to be on other blogs that you may go to...sound familiar? Who's pathetic?
eeehhhr ugghh! So sad.
You are spewing hate yourself, Karen. Linda is only viewing the world as she sees it.
Sorry Fred.
But IMO, I look at her posts as hateful rhetoric because her candidate is not where she would like her to be so she comes here to vent.
Karen
Thu, 03/20/08
Reply to this
As a Michigander I can attest that Obama is NOT blocking Hillary's re-do, the Michigan Republican-controlled legislature is!
===============================
I never heard/read any statements that would indicate Obama is obstructing a vote there (nor in Florida,) but I did hear SLICK HILLARY make that insinuation on TV last night.
The MSM sometimes shills for Hillary by saying "She Won" in Michican and Florida, when there was not a fair, legal, fully-participated campaign in those States.
The message being "the rule breaker wins" - rule keepers lose
I love it, I love it, I want more of it.
Whatever turns you on.
These days you only display two reasons for coming here -- to attack Obama and then fight with people about it.
If you occassionaly posted on other important topics like you used to you'd find you still have friends and people to agree with here.
13.
Karen
Thu, 03/20/08
Reply to this
As a Michigander I can attest that Obama is NOT blocking Hillary's re-do, the Michigan Republican-controlled legislature is!
===============================
I never heard/read any statements that would indicate Obama is obstructing a vote there (nor in Florida,) but I did hear SLICK HILLARY make that insinuation on TV last night.
Fred~ That was in response to Linda in NM's post below:
I would like to ask that all Obama supporters (or not) please contact the
Obama campaign to ask they stop blocking, even ReDo Votes in Michigan and
Florida, so they have a chance for their votes to count.
1:21 PM EST
today being Holy Thursday, that means Easter is just around the corner --
-- well, 12 years ago, Easter at the White House:
...
_April 7, 1996, Easter Sunday.
...
Hillary Clinton is a Lieberman Democrat
Senator Clinton veers toward the right wing
There is no doubt that Hillary Clinton is a powerful politician. For some people, that's enough. Some people are willing to follow whomever has the most power, regardless of whether that power is employed in the right cause.
The rest of us must look more carefully at those who seek our support in their effort to gain more power. The rest of us must examine Hillary Clinton more carefully.
Upon examination, Hillary Clinton turns out not to be what her supporters wish she would be. Increasingly, her political stances are moving toward the right. It started with support for Bush's tax cuts for the rich, then into Clinton's vote in favor of the Patriot Act, though she never even read the legislation before voting on it. Then, of course, there was Hillary Clinton's support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Senator Clinton didn't just support the Iraq War at the beginning. She still supports it, and still refuses to admit that she made the wrong choice. Since that pro-war vote, Hillary Clinton has gone sliding further and further to the right, supporting initiatives to mix religion and government, supporting Pro-Life candidates, and even voting for a law to end free speech as we know it by making flag burning a crime. Time and time again, Hillary Clinton has failed to stand up to George W. Bush. When Russ Feingold called for the censure of George W. Bush, Hillary Clinton left him hanging.
If all this doesn't convince you that Hillary Clinton is becoming more and more like a right wing Republican with every passing year, consider this: Senator Clinton is now defending Joseph Lieberman. In fact, Hillary Clinton isn't just defending Lieberman, she is helping Lieberman defeat a true progressive Democrat, Ned Lamont.
Ned Lamont is running for United States Senate in the Democratic Primary against Joseph Lieberman because of Lieberman's repeated cooperation with the worst of the Republicans' right wing agenda. While the Republicans have been lying to America, running up record debts, cutting away our civil liberties, and selling out the basic needs of American citizens, Senator Lieberman has been lecturing Democrats that we need to be friendly to Republican ideas, and we should not contradict George W. Bush. Lieberman has actually suggested that criticizing President Bush is unpatriotic. He's said that Americans do not have the right to full religious liberty. He's supported George W. Bush almost every step of the way.
Hillary Clinton ought to be ashamed to be seen in the same company as Joseph Lieberman. But, she isn't. In fact, Senator Clinton has written a letter to the delegates of the Connecticut Democratic Committee, urging them to support Senator Lieberman, and help defeat progressive Ned Lamont.
The letter, which is shown below, contains many false statements. For example, Senator Clinton claims that " Joe Lieberman fought tooth and nail to protect the guarantee of Social Security that this country has honored for seven decades to its senior citizens." The truth is that Senator Lieberman tried to help George W. Bush's attacks on Social Security until they were all but certainly doomed. During the State of the Union Address, when President Bush announced his plan to destroy Social Security as we know it, Joseph Lieberman was one of only two to stand up and applaud. That's right - Senator Lieberman actually applauded the destruction of Social Security. ...full article: http://www.irregulartimes.com/clintonlie...
LindaNM - are you trying to convince us, or yourself? what a mean person you've become since you've been shilling for Hill and spreading her bs. every time you post here, your hatred for Obama and anyone who suupports him spills over. it's toxic. if Obama were on the Michigan ballot and Hillary was not, you would be screaming at the top of your lungs that it would be unfair to count Michigan's votes. if Obama said the FL and MI votes wouldn't count, then went back on that once he needed those votes, again, you'd be sceraming at the top of your lungs. but Hillary can do no wrong - let the shit fall where it may, she's in it to win it and screw the democratic party. and LindaNM is behind that all the way.
as for... "You all have personally attacked bloggers who support a Political candidate different from your and call them names. Nice. You all can say the most outrageous things, lies, name calling about others, but if someone posts a TRUTH or FACT about "your candidate, BO" you all go out on attack. Priceless."
look in the mirror. the fact is, you are doing all that you blame us for. if you feel we don't agree with you and you obviously don't like us, why are you here? just to harass? to troll?
Here's an important Rethug seat which Presidential candidate Obama - campaigning in all 50 states - would help a good Democratic candidate win :
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/washington/20cnd-reynolds.html?hp
“I just looked at where we are,” he said at a news conference at a volunteer fire station here. “I had time to reflect on the State Senate seat in the north country and Congressman Hastert’s seat in Illinois.”
The two references were to elections in which Republicans lost to Democrats.
Mr. Reynolds has come under criticism because of financial irregularities at the chief fund-raising arm of his party in the House, the National Republican Congressional Committee. The former treasurer of the committee, Christopher J. Ward, who was named to that post five years ago by Mr. Reynolds when the latter was chairman, is the focus of an F.B.I. investigation.
Oh, enough of this fantasy world and CONTINUOUS LYING AND IMPROPER AND UNJUSTIFIED NAME CALLING.
REALITY
Clinton turns up heat for do-over
But new primary looks unlikely with Obama camp balking and time short.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...
The Obama campaign has devised a heady number of sensible objections, all on practical grounds, to the idea of a redo. "It's not fair for me to (have to vote for a bill) that's half-baked, ill conceived and not appropriate," state Sen. Tupac Hunter, an Obama supporter, said on WDET on Tuesday. Similarly, Sen. Buzz Thomas, who heads the Obama campaign in Michigan, is opposing an election. But all the technical objections, which question the ethics of privately funding an election or the fairness of an election that would exclude those who voted Republican on Jan. 15, seem fussy: After all, not one Obama supporter in Michigan was able to vote for their candidate by name.
The premise in the Obama camp seems to be that Clinton needs the votes, and that Obama can do without them -- or might do better by engineering a smoke-filled room decision about delegates than risking another election.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...
Obama's camp raises doubts over do-over
By TODD SPANGLER and DAWSON BELL • FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF • March 19, 2008
Read Comments(38) Recommend (6) Print this page E-mail this article
Share this article: Del.icio.us Facebook Digg Reddit Newsvine What’s this?
WASHINGTON –Barack Obama’s chief lawyer raised serious questions this morning about the prospects of a do-over primary for Michigan, representing in the campaign’s broadest statement yet on the subject that such a second nominating contest could leave itself open to legal challenges and confusion as to its results.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...
Mr. Obama’s campaign has resisted a new contest, saying that Michigan Democrats are divided, that a revote would not make much difference in the overall delegate count and that the Clinton camp was trying to change the rules to suit itself.
The Michigan Legislature, which would vote on approving a new election, is deeply torn on it because of cost, legal questions and logistical difficulties.
Another spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, Phil Singer, said Mr. Obama was trying to disenfranchise Michigan and Florida voters. “By failing to encourage its supporters in these states to throw their support behind efforts to hold new primary elections there,” Mr. Singer said, “the Obama campaign is allowing nearly 2.5 million voters to be excluded from the nominating process.”
A spokesman for Mr. Obama, Tommy Vietor, said the difficulties with a new election outweighed the advantages.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/us/pol...
YOU MEAN THE SAME JOE LIEBERMAN THAT AL GORE TRUSTED AS HIS VP RUNNING MATE!?!
Karen,
SUPERB!:))
Susan Rowe~
Hillary Clinton is a Lieberman Democrat
Senator Clinton veers toward the right wing
Hubby and I was talking about that this morning only we took it one step further by saying Lieberman is now a Republican. That thought scared us because if Al Gore would have won in 2000, Lie-ber-man would probably be running for prez now on the Dem ticket.
I don't read LInda NM's comments at all anymore - Scroll right past.
But ya'll might want to give her some sympathy when AL GORE, SUPER DELEGATE, VOTES FOR BARACK OBAMA.
Clinton turns up heat for do-over
It's been dismissed by all but hilladroids as a stunt. And some of her supporters in MI said it hurt their effort by making it look partisan. She knew she wouldn't get the re-do and just wants to use it as an attack -- which all her disappointed, disillusioned, and defeated campaign has left.
Obama: As He Rises, He Falls
Hence Vietor's sensitivity to the allusion in my column to Obama's "mentor" being Senator Joe Lieberman. As a freshman senator, Vietor insisted, Obama had been assigned Lieberman as mentor. Read the Hartford Courant and you'll find Lieberman boasting that Obama picked him.
Either way, it's obvious that Obama could have brokered a different mentor if he'd so desired, the same way he could have declined to go and tout for Lieberman at that Democratic Party dinner in Connecticut at the end of March. But he clearly didn't, because he wanted to send out a reassuring signal, in the same way he's doing with his PAC, the Hopefund, which is raising money for fourteen of his senate colleagues. According to BlackCommentator, ten of them are DLC--half the DLC presence in the Senate.
Obama: As He Rises, He Falls
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060508/co...
The Michigan Legislature, which would vote on approving a new election, is deeply torn on it because of cost, legal questions and logistical difficulties.
That's the rhetoric the Michigan Republican-controlled Legislature is using but the real reason is they don't want a re-do. It's in their best interests to keep this thing going as long as possible.
And, just like in every other state, because they're controlled by the rethugs, nothing gets done!
Examining Clinton & Obama’s Stances on the Subprime Mortgage Crisis, Universal Healthcare, Privatizing Social Security and Nuclear Energy
Same, of course, with Hillary. If anything, Hillary’s advisers are a shade more open to reaching out a little further left. And you worry that as attractive as Obama is, as inspirational as he obviously is, he might be very centrist as president, and you wonder whether this is him trying to be the Democratic version of John McCain, trying to tone it way down in order to reach out to independents, or whether this is what the man really believes, or whether he’s still a work in progress.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/8/exa...
McBush responded to Obama's criticism of his vote for war in Iraq by saying Obama is "rehashing" the past.
It called a "record."
Linda in NM~ Obama's "mentor" being Senator Joe Lieberman
Don't know what you hope to accomplish by posting this. It's a non- issue everywhere else.
1:41 PM EST
http://www.gallup.com/poll/105097/Perceived-Honesty-Gap-Clinton-Versus-Obama-McCain.aspx
March 18, 2008 Perceived Honesty Gap for Clinton Versus Obama, McCainby Jeffrey M. Jones
PRINCETON, NJ -- Hillary Clinton is rated as "honest and trustworthy" by 44% of Americans, far fewer than say this about John McCain (67%) and Barack Obama (63%).
...
“the Obama campaign is allowing nearly 2.5 million voters to be excluded from the nominating process.”
if MI, FL and Hillary had kept their promises, we wouldn't be in this position. but some folks can twist that to be Obama's fault - and just because there are 'serious legal questions', he should still go along with it?! jeeeesus! hate knows no bounds sometimes - fear, hatred, it's all the same - I wonder why they're all so scared of Obama...
Lieberman To Resurrect the Culture Wars
Posted December 10, 2007
I guess this must be one for those of us who spent the 90s wanting to throw large objects through the television set as we watched that sanctimonious, finger wagging, judgmental scold Joe Lieberman on the floor of the Senate joining with the Republicans to derail the constitution over Bill Clinton's zipper:
Senators Joe Lieberman (ID-CT), Sam Brownback (R-KS), Evan Bayh (D-IN), and Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) called for a thorough review of the video game ratings process in the wake of "Manhunt 2" receiving a "Mature" rating. In a letter to the Entertainment Software Ratings Board (ESRB), the Senators detailed how the change in rating opened the door to widespread release of the game, which depicts acts of horrific violence.
Well that is just peachy. Do we suppose Hillary sat down and actually played Manhunt 2 on the campaign trail in order to arrive at this conclusion, or did she just take Joe's word for it, much like she did when she voted for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment that others have quite rightly pilloried her for? Because Joe, you'll recall, was a useful idiot for the Bushies when they discovered Iran had no nuclear weapons program and they had to find another reason to bomb them into the stone age -- something they neglected to tell the public about. And despite the fact that Clinton's excuse for voting for the AUMF was that she had "bad information" from the Bush Administration on the Iraq weapons program, she decided to trust them -- and Lieberman -- and amp up the Iran war rhetoric.
One wonders at what point she will stop following Lieberman over the cliff. ... full article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsh...
you wonder whether this is him trying to be the Democratic version of John McCain
Actually, it was Hillarywho said that McBush would a better president than Obama (therefor obviously not the same as), and Bill that Hillary and McSame would get along famously together as opposing nominees.
And if you look at their Senate records, Hill and John were in agreement when it came to voting for the worst of Bush's agenda.
Karen
Thu, 03/20/08
Reply to this
Fred~ That was in response to Linda in NM's post below:
I would like to ask that all Obama supporters (or not) please contact the
==============
Yea, I know. I went to her thread and said the same thing. I cannot understand how people can smear Obama simply by listening to Hillary's operatives, and not doing their own leg work.
Superb! Thank you all and I'm off!
heh heh - that's what the trolls used to say here in 2003 when they had gotten enough 'hits' from us and wandered off to collect their fees from Karl.
Barack Obama this week gave the best political speech since John Kennedy talked about his Catholicism in Houston in 1960, and it derived power from something most unusual in modern politics: an acknowledgment of complexity, nuance and legitimate grievances on many sides. It was not a sound bite, but a symphony.
Several weeks ago, Kennedy's speech in its entirety was replayed on C-Span or Link. I had only seen excerpts before, but watching that entire speech given before all-white, all-male "deciders" about his religion and how he would not bring it into the WH decisions, something they were very concerned about.
Kennedy's speech was sincere, well-spoken, intelligent, lasting perhaps an hour and was stunningly effective much like Obama's speech. The two have now been compared favorably. That has to be a huge honor for Obama and uplifting for his campaign. His speech deserves a place in history just as Kennedy's speech.
The Clinton-Lieberman Connection by David Sirota
Posted March 5, 2008 | 01:55 PM (EST)
Read More: Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton NAFTA, Joe Lieberman, Nafta, Ohio, Breaking Politics News
Confusion and misinformation are two of the most powerful weapons in a desperate politician's arsenal. They were used by Joe Lieberman in the 2006 general election against Ned Lamont, and exit polls suggest that they helped Hillary Clinton blast her way through yesterday's primary in Ohio. ...full article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-siro...
since Obama has made working with those who have different opinions a central theme of his campaign, I'm not at all surprised to hear of Lieberman as his Senate mentor. but some people don't get the difference between listening to others and CAVING IN to others. Hill's proven to be a caver, as long as it's to her benefit. she may eventually be our nominee, but she's a seriously flawed candidate.
Hillary is cutting her own throat with these shinnanigans, insinuations of "obstruction" and telling the media "she won"
The superdelegates don't like that kind of dirty tricks media blitz, and they will punish her at the appropriate time.
I emailed NBC Nightly news and told them I did not like them saying "Hillary won" Michigan and Florida, and to not reward her for her lies about Obama, and breaking the rules of fair play, and breaking her signed promise to the party.
Wow, Obama can't even win in Massachussetts in the General Election against McCain. Not good.
Massachusetts: McCain vs. Clinton SurveyUSA McCain 42, Clinton 55, Und 3 Clinton +13
Massachusetts: McCain vs. Obama SurveyUSA McCain 47, Obama 47, Und 6
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/...
I'm saddened by Linda in NM's comments and don't know what to think because she's been a friend here for a long time. It's not so much what's she's posting, but the personal venom that seeps through, IMO.
If this were mainly a pro-Hillary blog, I wouldn't come here because it would upset me to read the comments. That's just the type of person I am... everyone handles things differently.
Wow, Obama can't even win in Massachussetts in the General Election against McCain. Not good.
Back when Linda used to cite polls and claim Hillary is "unelectable," I said that polls about an election many months from now are meaningless. They still are.
(And why does Linda keep saying goodbye only to post again 5 minutes later?)
Linda, you're acting like the little kid who plugs his ears and then enters the room yelling and screaming. and then wonders why no one is listening.... you come here swinging for the fences, with no intention of having a dialogue with anyone, just trash us all in one fell swoop. it's bitter. and mean-spirited. but you know that.
That has to be a huge honor for Obama and uplifting for his campaign. His speech deserves a place in history just as Kennedy's speech.
Joan~ Yes, Kennedy's and I've also heard Obama's speech likened to MLK's "I Have A Dream" speech.
heh heh - that's what the trolls used to say here in 2003 when they had gotten enough 'hits' from us and wandered off to collect their fees from Karl.
Linda's no rovian troll. She just hates Obama more (as evidenced by the fact she never posts anything good about Hillary either).
polls are the epitome of manufactured news. Cheap. Nothing to research; nothing to analyse; nothing to be right or wrong about.
28.
Monica Smith
Thu, 03/20/08
"Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger." ~Psalms 8:2
"And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?" ~Matthew 21:16
Linda's no rovian troll
I know she's not a troll - I was just comparing the type of comments she was making as she 'leaves' - she sounds just like them. it's the contempt for US tthat they have in common.
gone now - have a wonderful afternoon, y'all! I'm gonna go move around some ice and slush before it freezes up on me...
2:12 PM EST
(And why does Linda keep saying goodbye only to post again 5 minutes later?
+++
Sitka -
To answer you're question, maybe her just pooping in (err, popping) is because she just wants us to dance to -- :
“the Obama campaign is allowing nearly 2.5 million voters to be excluded from the nominating process.”
Ok, this is a good example of false attribution of agency.
It's not a matter of permitting and Obama has no part in it.
Elections are about the voters. Candidates motivate, or not.
And their God has conquered them and divided them yet again.
I don't know what makes Linda and other Clintonistas think they would win Michigan in a fair primary?
Motown would be Obama territory and the rest of the State is not that far from Ilinois and Wisconsin.
Is it all about bating?
Op-Ed Columnist
Beyond America’s Original Sin
By ROGER COHENPublished: March 20, 2008There are things you come to believe and things you carry in your blood. In my case, having spent part of my childhood in apartheid South Africa, I bear my measure of shame...
...Can it be that a human being, like Wright, or like Obama’s grandmother, is actually inhabited by ambiguities? Can an inquiring mind actually explore the half-shades of truth?
Yes. It. Can.
The unimaginable South African transition that Nelson Mandela made possible is a reminder that leadership matters. Words matter. The clamoring now in the United States for a presidency that uplifts rather than demeans is a reflection of the intellectual desert of the Bush years.
Hillary Clinton said in January that: “You campaign in poetry, but you govern in prose.” Wrong. America’s had its fill of the prosaic....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/opinion/20cohen.html?th&emc=th
There won't be a second vote in Michigan, so what remains as an alternative is a negotiated compromise agreement. This is from today's Detroit News:
"Key lawmakers said today the Michigan do-over primary is dead.
" . . . .
"Matt Marsden, spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Mike Bishop, R-Rochester, added: 'There isn't going to be a vote. We have a few things to take care of and then we're done for today.'
"The primary redo bill is in the Senate. Today is seen as the final day for action, because the House leaves at the end of the day for a two-week recess. There would not be enough time when they return to pass legislation in time to allow state elections officials and local clerks to prepare for a June 3 contest.
" . . . .
"[Obama campaign chief strategist David] Axelrod suggested again that the state adopt the Obama campaign's preferred resolution: splitting the state's delegates evenly between Clinton and Obama, who removed his name from the Michigan ballot even though he was not required to do so.
"Former candidate Sen. Chris Dodd suggested just such a solution in a statement this morning.
"'We're open to a fair and reasonable resolution to this,' Axelrod said."
"Key lawmakers said today the Michigan do-over primary is dead.
Tom~ No surprise here. The Michigan rethugs will not let it happen. Only thing I don't understand is why is has to be passed through the legislature when it was receiving private funding.
Leslie Gelb on Charlie Rose - still existing a federal system is the political solution.
It is separation not division.
Gelb thinks the solution in Iraq is three steps.
1. Begin withdraw
2. federalize into threw States
3. Start a regional diplomat process which would include Iran.
Karen wrote "Only thing I don't understand is why is has to be passed through the legislature when it was receiving private funding."
I have the same question. State party chair Mark Brewer proposed a (party run) caucus regardless of the (state run) primary law passed by the legislature until New Hampshire pulled its prank by also violating DNC delegate selection rules with impunity and without penalty. I tended to think that if the DNC granted its approval for a delegate selection process and only state delegates to the Democratic convention were at issue, that only the approval of the two campaigns would be required. What would state officials, particularly Republican legislators, have to do with it?
Wow, this Kossack has really drunken the Media Assasination Kool-aid.
Linda's no rovian troll. She just hates Obama
Question of the day... WHY?
She used to hate everybody but Gore. I guess as the other straws got eliminated Obama was simply the last one one left.
By Jane Sutton 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
MIAMI (Reuters) - An eagle ray leaped onto a boat off the Florida Keys on Thursday and stabbed a woman with its barb, knocking her to the deck and killing her, a Florida wildlife investigator said.
"It's a bizarre accident," said Jorge Pino, an agent with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.
That has to be a huge honor for Obama and uplifting for his campaign. His speech deserves a place in history just as Kennedy's speech.
Joan~ Yes, Kennedy's and I've also heard Obama's speech likened to MLK's "I Have A Dream" speech.
Obama takes heat and turns it into light.
Upon reflection, my suspicion why state legislation is necessary for a Democratic ballot form caucus is because the contest would require the cooperation and participation of city clerks to operate polling places. A party run caucus with a caucus format might not although, without knowing, I don't believe this type of selection process could obtain the approval of the Clinton campaign for obvious reasons.
Under the circumstances, that could be the ideal solution for the Obama campaign to propose, for the chief purpose of putting the ball in Clinton's court and throwing her charge of voters "being shut out of our democratic process" back in her face. Still, her campaign has the fallback defense that caucuses aren't "democratic," a cynical but not altogether invalid position.
The trashing of Linda NM is like the trashing of HC. She posts links and is called horrible names. The hate here is coming from the BO supporters who don't want the BO boat rocked. The defense of BO reaches hysterical proportions and the hateful name calling is certainly projection. This is why Sam left, as well as many other good people who confused this blog with one of discourse, ability to state differing opinion and tolerance.
To read this blog, one reads that HC is a truly evil being and BO is angelic and can do no wrong. Both are incorrect black and white types of thinking, not allowing for nuance or polite differing discourse.
This blog is degenerating into something like "Lord of the Flies."
I have often said that I don't think either one is qualified to be prez. Does that mean I hate them? Of course not.
The other troubling thing is that there are two different standards here; one for HC and another for BO. If HC had been cozying up to Liebermann, we'd never hear the end of *evil* Hillary...but BO gets a pass.
Would MI do-over favor HC? Most likely. Would the BO campaign not want that? Most likely. Has there been some mischief to prevent a do-over? I don't know, but this is a race for power and power corrupts. In BOTH camps.
McCain aide circulates Obama/Wright video, is suspended
An aide to John McCain was suspended from the campaign today for blasting out an inflammatory video that raises questions about Barack Obama's patriotism.
Soren Dayton, who works in McCain's political department, sent out the YouTube link of "Is Obama Wright?" on twitter at 12:31 today with the tag, "Good video on Obama and Wright." It has since been taken down.
Another smear monkey falls on the sword.
On Charlie Rose -
It's a question of priorities. Saddam had electricity running in 45 days [after Desert Storm]
Iraqi poet saying that the oil industry is the only infrastructure working well.
Both he and another guest, an Iraqi journalist, say "out now" is a must.
3:04 PM EST
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080320/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_bayh_1;_ylt=Ag1MgfURPsov.2cJJMjLAtZh24cA
In Indiana, Clinton leans on Evan Bayh
By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer
12 minutes ago
TERRE HAUTE, Ind. - At times Thursday it was hard to tell who was running for president in Indiana — Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton or the man who never left her side, Sen. Evan Bayh
...
++++
Obama takes heat and turns it into light.
And drives the Clintons and their campaign up the wall each and every time! What, oh what to do? (Whine, whine.)
seashell - Linda's posts do not represent *discourse* lately. She posts an anti-Obama link with her opinions about how rotten he is and ends with *ciao!* and a neener, neener, neener attitude. My 13 year old son shows more maturity. When anyone responds to her - she then talks about all the hateful comments, etc. It's a vicious cycle which you're choosing not to see.
It is shocking and surprizing how the Clinton Machine can manufacture derogatory news about Obama with no evidence or reality whatsoever.
The 19 year old who didn't read/hear the speech and yet thought it and BO wonderful (paraphrase) ....might that be an example of many other teens who voted for BO? Did they vote for what others said about him or if seeing him, did they vote for charisma?
Just asking?
In Indiana, Clinton leans on Evan Bayh
Bayh, a right-leaner at time and one of Clinton's first endorsers, may be one of those on the Clinton "short list" which will not be needed of course.
Bayh was one of those on Gore's short list.
Rep. Jane Harman (D-Elite) by: David Dayen
Thu Mar 20, 2008
It is well-known that, shortly after elements of President Bush's illegal warrantless wiretapping program was divulged by the New York Times in December 2005, Rep. Jane Harman wasn't happy. She went on Meet The Press shortly thereafter and blasted the paper for leaking the details. But we did not know that she actively sought to cover up contents of the program PRIOR to the Pulitzer Prize-winning story.
Eric Lichtblau, who along with James Risen broke the story, has a new book coming out which details the wrangling between the NYT and the Administration which caused a one-year delay in the revelation of the warrantless wiretapping program in the press. During that time, Lichtblau ran into Jane Harman in the Capitol. In his book, Lichtblau tells how a few months after the story was held, he happened to be covering a House hearing where he heard Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) argue passionately for stronger civil liberties safeguards in the reauthorization of the Patriot Act.
Lichtblau saw this as an opportunity to question Harman about the warrantless wiretapping program, since Harman, as a member of the "gang of eight," was one of the four Democrats who'd been briefed on it. He writes: ...full post: http://www.calitics.com/showDiary.do;jse...
Michigan could caucus to allocate delegates at their District Convention like Iowa does and then proceed to elect them on the spot and do it at no cost.
Clinton opposes the use of a caucus mechanism and is using the old rovian trick of attack where you are weak.
The defense of BO reaches hysterical proportions and the hateful name calling is certainly projection.
*hysterical proportions* is quite a stretch of the imagination.
Has there been some mischief to prevent a do-over?
If you're asking if the Michigan Republican-controlled Legislature is up to mischief, than the answer is an astounding "YES"!
mary vb, I see quite clearly - all sides. You just don't like the links that put BO in less favorable a light. I don't believe she ever called him "rotten." If so, will you please post that post?
Since when is "ciao" a bad word? I'm surprised she isn't totally defensive due to the nasty attacks. I should know, shouldn't I, about being *attacked*? (but don't make the mistake of confusing me with a victim)
There is absolutely no basis for saying she "hates" BO. Has she said that? Where? Post that quote please.
The logic here goes like this: If you don't defend and protect BO at all times, and badmouth HC, you are considered to hate BO and be an HC shill.
Linda NM has a lot of courage IMO.
There are some very respectful BO supporters here...and then there are the others.
If Howard reads this blog, he must be appalled.
The first half hour on MSNBC after Keithie is very interesting. The panel pursues lies and truth and shades in between. BO AND HC are revealed. Lots of it is not flattering to either one. Would anyone here watch that?
Clinton opposes the use of a caucus mechanism and is using the old rovian trick of attack where you are weak.
I've corrected this before. The rovian trick is to attack the opponents strength.
Has there been some mischief to prevent a do-over?
Linda thinks asking such a question in itself provides the answer. So did Sen. McCarthy -- and so does Bill O'Reilly.
I'm no friend of the Democrats in Florida at this point of my life, and up until two days ago I was steadfast in my belief that I would be voting for Ralph Nader come November. I will now be voting for Obama should he become the nominee.
That being said, Obama supporters had better take seriously the feelings of disenfranchisement Democrats in Florida. They are bitter, and are swinging wildly against the DNC, the Florida Democratic leadership, their elected Democratic officials and the Republican legislature. If it were isolated to a few LTEs or random calls to local talk radio I would dismiss it as much ado about nothing. But as every plan for a redo falls through and the Democrats continue their bickering, the anger being released is significant.
The result could be that many Democrats stay home on election day. While this probably would not alter the result (as I beleive that FL will go Red regardless of the nominee) the effect down ticket would be enormous. There are a half dozen or more vulnerable Republicans being challenged in this state by Democrats, some of which could be easily defined as progressive. There are also a few vulnerable Dems at the federal, state and local levels that would be adversly affected.
A plan to seat the delegates must be found that satisfies both Obama and Clinton, but more importantly quells the outrage felt by the Florida voters.
getting irritated by an old blog friend led me to look for this, to remind myself of something important:
TWO FRIENDS WERE WALKING THROUGH THE DESERT. DURING SOME POINT OF THE JOURNEY, THEY HAD AN ARGUMENT; AND ONE FRIEND SLAPPED THE OTHER ONE IN THE FACE
THE ONE WHO GOT SLAPPED WAS HURT, BUT WITHOUT SAYING ANYTHING, WROTE IN THE SAND: TODAY MY BEST FRIEND SLAPPED ME IN THE FACE.
THEY KEPT ON WALKING, UNTIL THEY FOUND AN OASIS, WHERE THEY DECIDED TO TAKE A BATH.
THE ONE WHO HAD BEEN SLAPPED GOT STUCK IN THE MIRE AND STARTED DROWNING, BUT THE FRIEND SAVED HIM.
AFTER HE RECOVERED FROM THE NEAR DROWNING, HE WROTE ON A STONE:
"TODAY MY BEST FRIEND SAVED MY LIFE"
THE FRIEND WHO HAD SLAPPED AND SAVED HIS BEST FRIEND ASKED HIM, "AFTER I HURT YOU, YOU WROTE IN THE SAND AND NOW, YOU WRITE ON A STONE, WHY?"
THE FRIEND REPLIED "WHEN SOMEONE HURTS US WE SHOULD WRITE IT DOWN IN SAND, WHERE WINDS OF FORGIVENESS CAN ERASE IT AWAY.
BUT, WHEN SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING GOOD FOR US, WE MUST ENGRAVE IT IN STONE WHERE NO WIND CAN EVER ERASE IT"
LEARN TO WRITE YOUR HURTS IN THE SAND AND TO CARVE YOUR BENEFITS IN STONE.
4:41 p.m. EDST
Where is Robert Oler when we need him to back up the Clinton vitriol ?
( just kidding )
And, as always . . . . . . .
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