Dean is first in peace and first in the hearts of BFA bloggers.

3:15 PM EST

What will you do to end the war this year?

+++

Julia -

My answer to your question:

I already voted for Barack Obama in mt state's primary election and hope to vote again for him in the general election.

Rep. Jane Harman (D-Elite) by: David Dayen
Thu Mar 20, 2008

It is well-known that, shortly after elements of President Bush's illegal warrantless wiretapping program was divulged by the New York Times in December 2005, Rep. Jane Harman wasn't happy. She went on Meet The Press shortly thereafter and blasted the paper for leaking the details. But we did not know that she actively sought to cover up contents of the program PRIOR to the Pulitzer Prize-winning story.
Eric Lichtblau, who along with James Risen broke the story, has a new book coming out which details the wrangling between the NYT and the Administration which caused a one-year delay in the revelation of the warrantless wiretapping program in the press. During that time, Lichtblau ran into Jane Harman in the Capitol.


In his book, Lichtblau tells how a few months after the story was held, he happened to be covering a House hearing where he heard Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) argue passionately for stronger civil liberties safeguards in the reauthorization of the Patriot Act.
Lichtblau saw this as an opportunity to question Harman about the warrantless wiretapping program, since Harman, as a member of the "gang of eight," was one of the four Democrats who'd been briefed on it. He writes:... full article: http://www.calitics.com/showDiary.do;jse...

typo - in mt state's primary election

s/b - in my state's primary election

(lest someone think I live in Montana)

McCain aide suspended (but not fired) for anti-Obama video.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/20/...

mary vb, I see quite clearly - all sides.  You just don't like the links that put BO in less favorable a light.  I don't believe she ever called him "rotten."  If so, will you please post that post?

Since when is "ciao" a bad word?  I'm surprised she isn't totally defensive due to the nasty attacks.  I should know, shouldn't I, about being *attacked*? (but don't make the mistake of confusing me with a victim)

There is absolutely no basis for saying she "hates" BO.  Has she said that?  Where?  Post that quote please.

The logic here goes like this:  If you don't defend and protect BO at all times, and badmouth HC, you are considered to hate BO and be an HC shill.

Linda NM has a lot of courage IMO.

There are some very respectful BO supporters here...and then there are the others. 

If Howard reads this blog, he must be appalled.

The first half hour on MSNBC after Keithie is very interesting.  The panel pursues lies and truth and shades in between.  BO AND HC are revealed.  Lots of it is not flattering to either one.  Would anyone here watch that?

now done with this for the day!  :-) 

Examining Senator Obama's Iraq Record
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7XtIsI1c...

seashell, how nice of you to say, thank you. I'd say you're quite a courageous person yourself.

seashell - Implying rottenness - how's that? No, I'm not buying them apples. Sorry. She comes here now for a purpose of posting only anti-Obama crap. I read it all btw. But why doesn't she ever post any PRO-Hillary stuff that puts her candidate in a positive light? Last I'm responding about Linda or her posts.

So why does the repug MI legis. not want  a do-over?  If it's true that it would favor HC and if it's true that the repubs want to face HC in the gen'l, thinking she'd be easier to beat,  why not do it and give HC more of a chance?

Do the repugs think BO would be easier to beat?  I personally think he would be...at this point in time...

I'm paying close attention to who is most electable becuz that's what it comes down to for me.  McC must not be prez. 

Some good news (and bad) with SUSA polling. It's early yet.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3...

seashell from last thread...

The defense of BO reaches hysterical proportions and the hateful name calling is certainly projection. 

*hysterical proportions* is quite a stretch of the imagination.

Has there been some mischief to prevent a do-over? 

If you're asking if the Michigan Republican-controlled Legislature is up to mischief, than the answer is an astounding "YES"!

Michigan could caucus to allocate delegates at their District Convention like Iowa does and then proceed to elect them on the spot and do it at no cost.

Clinton opposes the use of a caucus mechanism and is using the old rovian trick of attack where you are weak.

A caucus is face to face, no room for Rush driven Republican crossovers. an instant honest accounting

what is it about Hillary that she fears an ooportunity for her supporters to stand up in public and be counted?

Michigan delegates have been punished with being seen as being lead by ego trippers who would rather break the rules than making sure they were seated in Denver, and Hillary at least has realized that a contest that didn't even have Obama on the ballot is not going to be recognized by anyone. Just have the caucus and get seated. Obama and the Rules Committee will sanction a vote that stays within the rules, and will accomodate an apology.

Mary, who are you kidding? Everyone here knows no matter what I posted I got attacked. Whether I posted pro candidate diaries or not. That I had "nerve posting that on this blog". You all just won't admit that you all consider me a traitor because I didn't join the anything for Obama blog. And you all resort to any means to push Obama, regardless that you all post lies or name call. And the last thread showed that.

But hah, carry on folks. I wouldn't want to interrupt your "circle".

Oh wait, you all invited me to come back post other things except Candidate info. Gee how nice, but you all couldn't take a time out from posting your hate, name calling, racism, or lies on Clinton.........or me.........hmmmmm.

Linda is quite in the tradition of the way Sitka treated Edwards. free speech zone here

So why does the repug MI legis. not want  a do-over? 

seashell~

They want to prolong the Barack/Hillary thing as long as possible to advantage McCain.

Huron,that was a great post last thread about BO's Iraq speech.  My thoughts exactly...you too, Mike.

Either way, troops will come out of Iraq and go to Afghan..that is directly and concisely what BO meant when he said we have to win the war in Afghan.  Throwing kisses and flowers will not do it.  

HC has not said the same thing and I'm listening for it...but I have little hope that either of them can/will end the mess in the ME  .... unless... until.... I/P horror show is resolved. And they are not addressing that.

Has there been some mischief to prevent a do-over?

Thinking that asking such a question in itself provides the answer is McCarthyism -- or O'Reillyism.

post whatever you damn well please Linda (every once in a while could you throw in a cute polar bear cub?)

(Reposting from the end of the last thread...) 

I'm no friend of the Democrats in Florida at this point of my life, and up until two days ago I was steadfast in my belief that I would be voting for Ralph Nader come November.  I will now be voting for Obama should he become the nominee.

That being said, Obama supporters had better take seriously the feelings of disenfranchisement Democrats in Florida.  They are bitter, and are swinging wildly against the DNC, the Florida Democratic leadership, their elected Democratic officials and the Republican legislature.  If it were isolated to a few LTEs or random calls to local talk radio I would dismiss it as much ado about nothing.  But as every plan for a redo falls through and the Democrats continue their bickering, the anger being released is significant.

The result could be that many Democrats stay home on election day.  While this probably would not alter the result (as I beleive that FL will go Red regardless of the nominee) the effect down ticket would be enormous.  There are a half dozen or more vulnerable Republicans being challenged in this state by Democrats, some of which could be easily defined as progressive.  There are also a few vulnerable Dems at the federal, state and local levels that would be adversly affected.

A plan to seat the delegates must be found that satisfies both Obama and Clinton, but more importantly quells the outrage felt by the Florida voters.

Linda is quite in the tradition of the way Sitka treated Edwards.

Yeah, posting his record was really mean of me. 

Linda in NM~ Your posts are fine but not the venom that goes along with them.

Clinton opposes the use of a caucus mechanism and is using the old rovian trick of attack where you are weak.

I've corrected this before too. The rovian trick is to attack your opponent's strength.

Good article on Harmon:  Excerpt

Still, we have this portrait of Harman, eager to cover up, convinced that what she is told must stay secret has to stay secret, untrained in the Constitution enough to see that warrantless wiretapping is unnecessary under FISA and in defiance of the Fourth Amendment.  It's relieving a bit that the past few years, with the help of the blogosphere, have given many in the Congress an education on the document they swear to uphold and defend.  It's also completely sad.

5.

seashell :-)
Thu, 03/20/08

Reply to this


mary vb, I see quite clearly - all sides. You just don't like the links that put BO in less favorable a light. I don't believe she ever called him "rotten."


Sea...of course not, but that doesn't mater to them. Just like when you call them out for calling me racist, troll, not nice, pod person....oh my, the list goes on....They will say....as on last thread....I didn't say SHE was, I was talking about others (wink wink).....or I was just "giving the similarities between her and them" (wink wink)

They really don't like looking in the mirror. The meanness and hate is what people are seeing.


I just couldn't resist posting information that was pertinent to the Thread Topic being this website was still up on my screen. But I'm leaving....don't worry *rd, no, I won't be back. I know you have EXCELLENT experience posting that you're leaving here, to return just moments, not even days later. But As we see, even if I make an appearance every few weeks, the vitriol actually gets worse and I don't like it.

Ciao!

what is it about Hillary that she fears an ooportunity for her supporters to stand up in public and be counted?

A lot of voters want their privacy. 

Can we have a no polling zone?

I didn't think so.

Look, polls (as reported publically) are useless.

Detailed polling with breakouts and crosstabs can be useful to understand a candidate's strengths and weaknesses among voters to a campaign.  Even then, it is only a snapshot at a point in time far removed from the actual vote.

So, some poll that says "candidate X will beat candidate Y by 45-41" is useless in so many ways!

McCain aide suspended (but not fired) for anti-Obama video

Yep, they'll just stuff him in the backroom until this dies down a little then let him resurface.

Ciao!

I don't speak Italian. Does "ciao" mean, "I'll be back in 5 minutes,"? 

if you attack where you are weak, expose (or create out of whole cloth)a flaw in the opponent that you yourself are sure will come out about yourself , when it does, "well they both are like that" and your weakness becomes a draw

the Ohio NAFTA story Clinton spun was a classic use of that rovian technique

Okay, the blog is still broken.

3:41 ET 

Phil, no, I can't. Each time I try to just pop in....it's not a nice place to be.

if this is what you all want, go for it. Not me.


Be well.

I don't speak Spanish how do you spell "ola" (how I hear it) and is it the same word as ciao?

Gallup ratings for Pres. candidates on honesty/trustworthiness.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0...

30.

Sitka
Thu, 03/20/08




Ciao!

I don't speak Italian. Does "ciao" mean, "I'll be back in 5 minutes,"?


Probably in your dictionary.

Linda NM, perhaps it's time to post some more pro-HC articles, just to  prove that you'll still be attacked. 

Or maybe I will.  :-) 

34. ola is Hola, the H is silent, en espanol. Hasta (h silent) (bye)

Linda in NM

regardless that you all post lies

I've not seen any posts that aren't accompanied by documented links.

I love posts on the environment and anything relating to Al Gore. Just sayin.

oops, sorry, forgot the other part of the question Phil, Hola is Hi! or Hello.

You all just won't admit that you all consider me a traitor because I didn't join the anything for Obama blog.

Actually, by the way you've jumped from Gore to Edwards to Hillary and attacked the others as incarnations the devil at each stage of the process before eventually supporting them, I'd just say you're "flighty," and will support Obama too when he secures the nomination.

Probably in your dictionary.

Obviously in yours. 

"Ciao" means "hello" and "goodbye". However, it is used in an informal sense and you usually use it when you are familiar with someone. You should not use it the first time you meet someone (even if that person is introduced to you) - see if they say "ciao: when leaving you, and then you know it's Ok to use it when you next see them. A safer way of greeting someone is "Salve", the polite and formal "hello". Rather than saying "ciao" when leaving the company of someone, use the formal "Arriverderci" ("Goodbye").

Linda

I tried to get a conversation going about how extricating ourselves from Iraq would entail a repproachmant with Iran that would cause axiety with our good friend Israel because of Iran's ties with Hezbullah, and how Obama made a more perilous political move by advocating talking with Iran than did Hillary voting for Kyl Lieberman, even as Obama has a more forward thinking and nuanced policy.

I would be happy to solicit a response from you on that topic which Hillary ducked on the fifth anniversary by fussing about Michigan, while Obama took it on head on with a major speech.

point me to a Hillary link defending her Kyl-Lieberman vote 

Wiki:

Hola
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Look up Hola in
Wiktionary, the free dictionary."Hola" means "hi", "hey" or "hello" in Spanish or Catalan. It is the opposite of adiós, which is Spanish for "goodbye".
Hola, Kenya
¡Hola!, a weekly magazine, published in Spain. The Spanish equivalent of Hello Magazine.
Pierre Hola, Tongan rugby union

Michigan could caucus to allocate delegates at their District Convention like Iowa does and then proceed to elect them on the spot and do it at no cost.

Phil~ There just isn't the will of the people to do anything here.  

what is Italian for Hola?

what is spanish for ciao? 

Hillary on children

********************** 

Marian Wright Edelman, my friend and founder of the Children's Defense Fund, says it best: "If we don't stand up for children, then we don't stand for much."

In my 35 years as an advocate for children and families, I have never met a child without potential. But I've met plenty of children growing up in extraordinary hardship and lacking the basic tools they need to succeed. Even in the United States, the wealthiest nation in the world, 13 million children still live in poverty and 5 million live in extreme poverty. Too many children are expected to overcome these hurdles, become productive citizens, and compete in a modern global economy without the benefit of sound schooling, decent housing, proper nutrition, and adequate health care.

• Email
  
• Print
  

This is not just an economic problem. It's a moral outrage.

I've been working to better the lives of children for 35 years, and the future of America's children will be a centerpiece of my presidency. The issue is personal for me. My own mother struggled through a childhood of neglect to give her own children the opportunities she never had. My mother taught me at a young age that all children deserve the chance to live up to their God-given potential and make the most of their lives.

For the better part of my professional and public life, I've focused on issues like children's health care, education, foster care and adoption, child care, and education -- all of which have a direct impact on children and their families. I took an extra year in law school to study child development and to work on legal assistance for the poor. Then I went to work for the Children's Defense Fund, where I represented abused and neglected children and children with disabilities. In Arkansas, I was tasked with leading an effort to reform the state's education system, then ranked near the bottom. I started a special program for mothers of pre-schoolers to get their kids ready for kindergarten, and also worked on reforming the state's rural health care system, which helped many poor families and their children. As First Lady, I pushed the effort to expand Head Start and help create Early Head Start, to reform our nation's foster care and adoption systems, and to strengthen child care across the United States.

After universal health care didn't succeed, I helped create the Children's Health Insurance Program, which now covers six million children in need.

Running for president has only strengthened my resolve to find solutions to problems affecting our children. In southern Ohio today, I announced a plan to take on child poverty -- and to end the moral outrage of children living in such neglect.

I have two bold goals: First, we're going to end child hunger by 2012. It's a national crisis and a national disgrace that more than 12 million children in America go hungry every day. I will do everything I can to reduce that number to zero.

Second, we're going to cut child poverty in half by 2020, lifting more than 6 million children above the poverty line.

You can learn the full details of my plan on my website.

point me to a Hillary link defending her Kyl-Lieberman vote

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/002386.php 

Paz Peace~ Obama supporters had better take seriously the feelings of disenfranchisement Democrats in Florida. 

I've heard that said here in Michigan, as well. The voters feel left out by their party. They're upset the Michigan Dem Party set this whole thing up without even consulting with the voters when they moved the primary up therefore causing the brouhaha. Actually, this is primarily Sen. Levin's fault, he was the instigator. I'm not holding any warm fuzzy feelings for him at the moment.

I'm a little torn, because I get better reception on my rabbit ears for the ball game if I shut off the computer.

little help Daniel? I need some tin foil here

Obama and McCain both chose UNC to win the NCAA championship.

Wilson's defense of HC's Kyl-L vote.

Note to Joe Wilson: Good Defense of Hillary but "Together We Can Do Better" on Iran

Posted November 5, 2007 | 12:25 PM (EST)
Read More: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Iran, Joe Wilson, Breaking Politics News

stumbleupon :Note to Joe Wilson: Good Defense of Hillary but "Together We Can Do Better" on Iran   digg: Note to Joe Wilson: Good Defense of Hillary but "Together We Can Do Better" on Iran   reddit: Note to Joe Wilson: Good Defense of Hillary but "Together We Can Do Better" on Iran   del.icio.us: Note to Joe Wilson: Good Defense of Hillary but "Together We Can Do Better" on Iran

100506Hillary2.jpg

Joe Wilson has penned an interesting essay at Huffington Post defending Hillary Clinton's complex stand on Iran and challenging Obama with some soft gloves.

   
   


In one section of the piece, Wilson writes:

    As one who practiced diplomacy on behalf of our country for decades, including as the acting ambassador in Iraq during Desert Shield, where I personally confronted Saddam Hussein and his henchmen, Senator Obama's approach seems to me to misunderstand diplomacy. Needless to say, profound distrust of Bush and the administration is more than merited. I yield to nobody in my own efforts to bring their lies to public attention. But the Durbin version of Kyl-Lieberman and the November 1 letter are clear in drawing lines in not granting the Bush administration authority it does not have.
    The administration has rightly been criticized for its refusal to use the broad array of tools at our disposal other than military action in the conduct of national security. War has been its first, second and final option -- its preferred option -- with disastrous results. Successful policy-making requires the use of complex diplomacy, carrots and sticks -- incentives, such as structured talks, and disincentives, such as sanctions against rogue elements. Coping with the Bush administration should not cause us to ignore at our peril very real adversaries that would do us harm. These clearly include Iran and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

I have a few reactions.

First and foremost, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Harry Reid, Richard Durbin, James Webb, and the rest would do the country a great favor by actually 'passing' the Webb-introduced legislation barring monies spent on military action against Iran without explicit Senate consent. A resolution that languishes in the Senate that has Hillary's co-sponsorship but that has not benefited from her ascending political weight does not change the political facts as they are now.

Joe Wilson is correct to note that Hillary Clinton, Durbin, and others have made statements that their support of Kyl-Lieberman do not, in their parochial view, authorize the Bush administration to take military action against Iran. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-clemons/note-to-joe-wilson-good_b_71183.html?view=print 

As everyone knows, rabbit ears work much better if you hold them.  Of course, that means typing on the computer one-handed.

I forgot to put this in bold for people who skim

A resolution that languishes in the Senate that has Hillary's co-sponsorship but that has not benefited from her ascending political weight does not change the political facts as they are now.

Joe Wilson is correct to note that Hillary Clinton, Durbin, and others have made statements that their support of Kyl-Lieberman do not, in their parochial view, authorize the Bush administration to take military action against Iran.

37.

Sitka
Thu, 03/20/08

I've corrected this before too. The rovian trick is to attack your opponent's strength.

=====================
That's what she did with her demeaning comments about "just speeches" and "just words" of Obama.

oops, sorry for the wee bit of spam.

Now off to do errands and start a new painting. 

I'm paying close attention to who is most electable becuz that's what it comes down to for me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ya.  That pretty much was the last election's reasoning in favor of John Kerry.  Get it done before everyone's had a chance to hear Howard.  

Worked very well, didn't it?  

The defense of BO reaches hysterical proportions and the hateful name calling is certainly projection. 

It is always difficult to admit that you may have jumped onto a band wagon a little too early.  Just human nature.

32.

Linda in NM
Thu, 03/20/08

Examining Senator Obama's Iraq Record
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7XtIsI1c...
==============================

This link...
Fox news analysis on a series of short ambivalent, ambiguous Obama quotes out-of-context?

You can do better than that, Linda.

Voted like Hillary did on funding. Than why does Hillary attack him on those votes as she did not?

Insidious spin. Her hallmark, not his.

Funny about the poor MI, FL voters, and feeling left out.  My primary's in May. . . .

(Who the *hell* would *plan* a May primary?  And why?)

And did I miss the street demonstrations by the MI, FL voters who wanted to play by the rules?   

37.

Linda in NM
Thu, 03/20/08

Reply to this

seashell, how nice of you to say, thank you. I'd say you're quite a courageous person yourself
========================

It is not courage, it's denial.

In your case, Linda, it's obsessive pride.

Both of you have been blinded IMO. You have to start looking at the person and not the Clinton camp characterization of him.

DNC Gives Blessing To Michigan Re-vote
    


Democratic National Committee Gives Blessing To Michigan Re-vote
By Greg Sargent - March 19, 2008, 10:14AM

The DNC, whose role in the fight over the Michigan revote has been largely a behind-the-scenes one, goes public this morning with its blessing for the current revote plan:

We have recently been asked whether the legislation as proposed by Michigan would fit within the framework of the National Party’s Delegate Selection Rules. Our review of this legislation indicates that it would, in fact, fit within the framework of the Rules if, it were, passed by the state legislature and used by the Michigan State Democratic Party as the basis of drafting a formal Delegate Selection Plan. If a formal Delegate Selection Plan is received we will convene a meeting of the RBC to consider such a Plan.

The DNC's statement would seem to put pressure on the Obama camp to get behind the plan.

What's unclear as of yet is whether DNC chair Howard Dean did anything behind the scenes to push the Obama camp to get behind the revote, something that top Hillary donors were demanding that Dean do.

Either way, if there isn't any agreement before the Michigan state legislature goes on recess later this week, the revote won't happen.

The DNC's formal blessing for the plan has also provoked a blistering attack from the Clinton camp on Obama, with the Hillary campaign pointing out that Obama had previously said he'd be fine with a revote if both campaigns had time to weigh in on it and the DNC signed off, which it has now done.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5159036 

You all just won't admit that you all consider me a traitor because I didn't join the anything for Obama blog.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



We don't ALL consider you a traitor. And support for Obama is very very variable. Even here. What *isn't* too variable is any belief in Clinton. But even that. . . . Fox, and sea, and Ronald et al.



Take a look at the old threads, from the time this blog was created: you're not going to find any support for either of the Clintons, even then.



Me, personally? I miss the days of blood orange marmalade. . . .

I think this takes ALERT status......

Hillary now saying if the Fl voters don't get their say, she will "question" the legitimacy of the nominee. What???

I'm usually in favor of waiting till the last person votes. however, she will have other Pastor Wright kind of videos to keep chipping away at Obama's lead until the old unelectable game is presented to the Super Dels.

Is it time to let her know it's time to get out, that she is hurting the Party and the Country? Maybe through the media?

I think the Clinton gang is ruthless, and for Obamb supporters to gently wait for the system to unfold could be a losing way to go.

66.puddle

Take a look at the old threads, from the time this blog was created: you're not going to find any support for either of the Clintons, even then.

==================

good splash, puddle.

For puddle: Hillary Clinton on Mountaintop Removal.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3...

I sent in $5 to the Clinton campaign once. Long before anybody else was running.

I support Obama and I've criticized Clinton, as well as a host of other Democratic candidates.  It's fun.  But I would like to add that I am not enamored of the sentiment expressed by some former Dean supporters that they won't vote for the Democratic nominee in November if it's not a candidate whom they supported in the primaries.

There's a very specific reason.  Neither Clinton nor Obama are perfect candidates.  I've seen more in Obama that appeals to me as a presidential candidate but, unfortunately, I'm as willing as the next Obama supporter to overlook his faults because of my support.  The most conflict I've experienced in my assessment of his judgment regards a story of which I wasn't previously aware and found out just recently.  The details are reported by Matt Renner of Truthout and David Moberg of In These Times, to name two sources.

Manypeople here will recall Christine Cegelis, a Dean's List candidate who valiantly opposed Henry Hyde in 2004 in a grassroots campaign that garnered an astonishing amount of support, despite the long odds.  She was an early candidate in 2006, but in a move that was widely publicized and harshly criticized here, DCCC chair Rahm Emanuel hand selected Tammy Duckworth to enter the primary from outside the district.  This interference was vehemently resented here, and I think understandably so.

Duckworth's candidacy got boosts from other Illinois legislators of otherwise good character and reputation, including Dick Durbin, Jan Schakowsky, and Barack Obama.  Her media consultant was David Axelrod.

As I've mentioned before, in my opinion, Emanuel is a pig who is beneath contempt, so seeing Obama, Durbin and Schakowsky involved with him in this type of base politics was embarrassing to me.  I'm not saying this to diminsh Obama's chances or urge some defection of support.  It's only to state that I am not so doctrinaire a political advocate that I would disdain the candidacy of Sen. Clinton, should she be the nominee, for failing some type of political purity test that few, if any, office seekers could pass, and I would ask others to consider the wisdom of doing it themselves.

The word derives from the Venetian phrase s-ciào vostro or s-ciào su literally meaning "I am your slave". This greeting is analogous to the Latin Servus which is still used in a large section of Central/Eastern Europe. The expression was not a literal statement of fact, of course, but rather a perfunctory promise of good will among friends (along the lines "if you ever need my help, count on me"). Indeed, to this day the greeting ciao is used in Italy only among peers, family members, and close friends, being considered too informal to use with superiors or strangers.

51.

mary vb
Thu, 03/20/08

Reply to this

For puddle: Hillary Clinton on Mountaintop Removal.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3...
====================

For a minute there I thought it was about denigrating MLK's "been to the mountaintop" speech LOL

It's the same old "balance" argument neocon's use, like "reform." Both are code words for getting rid of liberal democratic legacies.

51.

puddle------
Indeed to this day,the greeting ciao is used in Italy only among peers, family members, and close friends, being considered too informal to use with superiors or strangers.
---------
I took Italian for several years and my Italian is still terrible but the *ciao* formality if you will stuck. ;-)

s/b informality with strangers...

58.

Phil Specht
Thu, 03/20/08

Reply to this

if you attack where you are weak
================================

You may be right in your analysis of Ohio, but that is not classic "Rove" - Sitka is right, Rove was famous for his counter-intuitive approach of attacking opponents' strengths.

PHIL

There is discussion on msnbc about Hillary's comment that if the Fl thing wasn't resolved, she would question the legitimacy of the nominee.

What do you suppose she has in mind?

41.

audrey.nc
Thu, 03/20/08

I think this takes ALERT status......

Hillary now saying if the Fl voters don't get their say, she will "question" the legitimacy of the nominee. What???
===========================

Sounds like she's threatening to talk her supporters away from the polls in the GE, and let McCain win?

41.

audrey.nc

Hillary now saying if the Fl voters don't get their say, she will "question" the legitimacy of the nominee. What???
==========================

Is she threatening to split the party and run as an independent? She's bluffing. She knows that would mean very few friends and [friends = money], something dear to her heart.

Just read Hillary's comment that audrey referenced. What is this supposed to mean? Is she still trying to doom Barack in November?

76.

FRED from Ashland OR
Thu, 03/20/08

Hillary now saying if the Fl voters don't get their say, she will "question" the legitimacy of the nominee. What???
===============

Sounds like she's threatening to talk her supporters away from the polls in the GE, and let McCain win?
--------------

That seems absolutely logical and having some chances too way of the future development. Two intellectually and ideologically bankrupt Parties won’t be saved by any third one either. Certainly they can’t save People if they won’t be able to save themselves..., lol.

OBAMA IN W VA now on C-Span

You may be right in your analysis of Ohio, but that is not classic "Rove" - Sitka is right, Rove was famous for his counter-intuitive approach of attacking opponents' strengths.

~~~~~~~~~~~

I been on campaign teams working directly head to head against Rove, and if you want to learn about some of his tricks you can either listen or think you know it all.

Rove was famous for his counter-intuitive approach of attacking opponents' strengths.===

^word salad.^

6:06 PM EST

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080320/cm_thenation/1300860_1

Clinton Lie Kills Her Credibility on Trade Policy

John Nichols

Thu Mar 20, 1:59 PM ET

The Nation -- What is the proper word for the claim by Hillary Clinton and the more factually disinclined supporters of her campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination -- made in speeches, briefings and interviews (including one by this reporter with the candidate) -- that she has always been a critic of the North American Free Trade Agreement?

Now that we know from the 11,000 pages of Clinton White House documents released this week that former First Lady was an ardent advocate for NAFTA; now that we know she held at least five meetings to strategize about how to win congressional approval of the deal; now that we know she was in the thick of the manuevering to block the efforts of labor, farm, environmental and human rights groups to get a better agreement. Now that we know all of this, how should we assess the claim that Hillary's heart has always beaten to a fair-trade rhythm?

Now that we know from official records of her time as First Lady that Clinton was the featured speaker at a closed-door session where 120 women opinion leaders were hectored to pressure their congressional representatives to approve NAFTA; now that we know from ABC News reporting on the session that "her remarks were totally pro-NAFTA"

...

March Madness: Okay this is some lite fare.

Barack's brackets.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/...

For the record - my 13 yr old has also chosen UNC.

From BO website

Fred --

Senator Clinton and Senator McCain are reading from the same political playbook as they attack Barack on foreign policy.

I been on campaign teams working directly head to head against Rove, and if you want to learn about some of his tricks you can either listen or think you know it all.

===================

Phil - you are back to your condescending self, I was worried there for a while, I thought you were ill. 

I only know what I learn from a Frontline documentary - I guess you know more than they do, maybe you should contact FRONTLINE and offer them your wealth of knowledge?

Ya.  That pretty much was the last election's reasoning in favor of John Kerry.  Get it done before everyone's had a chance to hear Howard. 

Who's electable, puddle, became important to me when only two cands were left standing...not before .  It's important now except to people who don't care if McC wins.

Fox, and sea, and Ronald et al.

puddle, you haven't been reading my posts.  I don't like either one as prez and I always defend the one getting trashed.  But thanks for putting me in the HC camp erroneously.

****************************

"It's denial."  Okie dokey, Freddie.  Just what is it I'm denying?  Let's hear it.  BTW, I could say the same about you.  But I don't, do I?

 
Fred wrote: "   Both of you have been blinded IMO. You have to start looking at the person and not the Clinton camp characterization of him."

Sure are a lot of prominent people, good people who've been "blinded."   I pay little attention to what the camps say and lots of attention to what they say.  I looked at HC long ago...it's BO I've focused in on, and frankly, there's a lot of blindness and deafness going on about him IMO. 

I'll take my first hand experience over TV reporting anytime, Fred, you are getting it second hand eitherway.

new thread

82.*** cChalfonte***

Rove was famous for his counter-intuitive approach of attacking opponents' strengths.===

^word salad.^
====================

It's the "says-a-me" dressing that makes the salad

Question:  Since BO is not black nor white, but a mulatto (which I don't think is polically incorrect) why is he being hailed as the first black candidate?  It's just as silly to say that he's a white candidate.

This has puzzled me.  

Also, for those who read his books, did he hang around blacks or whites or mixed race as a child...as a student in high school?  Who were his friends?  As a youngster, was he more influenced by whites or blacks or neither?  Did he have any religion before Wright's church?  Was he agnostic?  What was his mother, his grandmother?  Are his mother and grandmother religious and church goers?  Did he go with them?

It seems like he ended up identifying with the black community since he started Wright's church.  Why not the white community since he was raised by white women?  Or wasn't he?  Why not a liberal white church?

I'm not trashing him...these are legit questions to help me understand him better.

Sitka.......

I'm sure you could have made your plitical point without adding that someone is "flighty", because they have moved from one candidate to another. A lot of us started with Kucinich and had to keep compromising from our choice.

Also, your comment that she'll come around in the end to the correct choice,,your choice,,actually the only one left, is reminiscent of the Kerryites telling us to "get over it". Can't we make our political points without calling other Deaniacs names? Keep that stuff out of the family.