Howard Dean is first.

Still angry about Florida's primary tactics, and angry that Bill Nelson and Karen Thurman are pleased as punch with themselves.   They don't care that the people don't get a choice.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1750

The nine "present" votes by Obama has been debunked but it is a "trick" used in vote trading and has as its main value obscuring the record of all the legislature.

I trust that you all are right and Obama was using it for good ends and the *sses he was covering were Republicans who would have been ashamed of their vote if forced to make it. and he did it to help get good legislation passed

It doesn't square with a call for greater transparency.

From bottom of last thread - and a must read, IMO

A sickening example of how racism is all too alive and sick on the SW side of Chicago, very close to where my mom lives and where I grew up (which is still a pristine white neighborhood and the N bomb is still in use)

http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/73...

This is from today's edition.

Let's not let the grievous sins of this current, abhorrent administration color any good any of the candidates will achieve after Inauguration Day. It's apparent that we've been stung so many times that we don't see the potential flowers for the bees.

Thanks mainefem and rae on the info about the Obama "present" votes in the IL senate. I have heard most of the anit-Obama propaganda but hadn't heard this one.

I always want an educated answer

Huron John - You've already made up your mind about Barack so no matter what anyone says it is doubtful you will change your feelings IMO.

Denise your link doesn't work, try again

You're right, Phil.  Obama is the candidate of the intellectual elite--the people who are judged by their accomplishments and how they act, rather than how they look.  Whether or not he is finally elected, I think it would be a good experience for the country to realize that many of our progressive notions are rooted in the African American experience.  

It was African American who pushed the idea that the sins of the father should NOT be visited on the children.  It was African slaves who challenged their detention after taking over their ship in the courts of Massachusetts.  

It was African slaves who originated contracts with the plantation owners for hours worked, free time, health care, old age protection and minimum age requirements for labor in the fields.

It was African Americans who insisted on public education in the south after the Civil War.  

It was African Americans who managed to increase their population, despite all the hardships, because they had nurses and doctors and clinics that took care of the sick when needed.

It was African Americans who secured civil rights for women in the work place. Some African Americans resent that other people seem to have benefitted more than they.  They're right.  But, that's how it is. 

Holly J

that explained nine of his 130 "present" votes

satisfactorily to me also

but do you think more secrecy in the legislative process is a good thing?

I think Obama supporters (and I certainly could become one) should answer constructive criticism and not treat it as an attack.

Sun, 01/13/08

I find no other explaination for your hatred of Edwards than prejudice.

That just shows you're inability to think beyond your own prejudice. You smear me, bit you can't back it up with anything -- not even a paraphrase of anything I've said.

I've criticized nothing about Edwards but the record you choose to ignore.

Baseless personal attacks are a poor substitute for promoting or defending your preferred candidate and very beneath the blog personna you've crafted.

Just another anecdote, then I really have work to do.  This is so much like the bamboo grapevine for me as well as a source of information and discussion.  I learned to love gossip on the Pacific Islands.  I  savored it.

So, In the early 70s I worked as a teacher at Boulder High.  One of the important people in the community was at a committee meeting to address why British Literature hadn't made that spring.  I spoke up, probably much the way I do here, wonderfing why students hadn't selected it.

After the meeting the important person came up to me and said, "We don't need a person who taught in the ghetto here."  She somehow knew that I had taught in Chicago.  

We've a long way to go folks. 

It doesn't square with a call for greater transparency.

Obama isn't the only one whose record belies his rhetoric. 

I haven't crafted anything sitka. as always I just come and state an opinion much like I was writing a LTE and you can take it or leave it, my posts all have an implicit "IMHO"

Why you have singled out John Edwards for constant attack is in your own heart.

6.  It's my understanding from comments on bluehampshire that the controversy was fueled by a letter signed by 100 women that went out two days before the election questioning Obama's commitment to "choice."  Fortunately, I did not get one of those emailed letters.  I do know some of the signers and they will not be forgotten.  The co-chair of Hillary's campaign, the former chair of the state Dem party, would like it to be forgotten as just part of a tough campaign.  Not likely to happen.  At least not if I can help it.

Since I have long argued against the use of the term "choice" and legislative meddling,I've got a nice position from which to keep harping. 

Lame whining from Mike Thompson (Detroit Free Press) re Punishment for early primary.

What Obama said is.......''We are one nation, we are one people.''

It is not a literal translation of Hitler's,  "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!" as HJ has disingenuously claimed. 

You're welcome, Holly J.

If there's anything that pisses me off, it's indolent political bloggers.

All federal and state laws (as well as roll call votes) are *readily* available online (esp. voting laws & procedures for each state, re: primaries and caucuses).

...versus incessant "emoting."

Google in less than a few seconds--i.e., fact-check.

D.I.Y.

Research *before* opening thy mouths, pls.--regardless of supporting candidate X, Y, or Z.

There is absolutely no excuse for spreading misinformation, unless a candidate has never held political office in the past.

Thanks for the link floridagal that explains about the FL primary. My family in FL still doesn't get it and blames Howard Dean (who they all know I love). I will forward the link to them.

I haven't crafted anything sitka. as always I just come and state an opinion much like I was writing a LTE and you can take it or leave it, my posts all have an implicit "IMHO"

My opinions are IMOHP too. and you should take, leave, or refute them without baseless personal attacks. 

Why you have singled out John Edwards for constant attack is in your own heart.

Obama has repeatedly said he "can reach across the aisle", so an attack that would target his means of a legislative voting device to accomplish that would seem an obvious rovian target.

That doesn't mean it doesn't raise red flags with someone like me that doesn't want to compromise with the Republican obstructionists who have blocked so much of the Democratic agenda.

"go along, get along" has brought us to this place

I would like to weigh in on the tax cut debate in previous thread.

Disclaimer - I haven't studied the BHO proposal 
So - I am going on what has been on the blog.
 
Based on the FOR argument details, the proposal is to continue
collecting payroll tax at present levels and "refunding" some flat
amount to be shown on the tax return as a working people's
tax credit.

I think this is OK.  It would seem that the Social Security funding
would remain and the tax credit would come out of the general
revenues.

Since excess payroll taxes have been used to fund current
federal accounts and high income tax cut fever, it is appropriate
for the obligatory payroll tax payers to get a break at the high
income tax payers' expense.  Return the favor. 

The 1993 budget agreement - passed with ZERO GOP votes -
added a few cents tax to each high income dollar,
lead to a balanced budget and surplus (and some embarassed
Repugs who had kept screaming for a balance budget constitutional
amendment to save Congress from itself even as the deficit was
erased),
moved investment out of the dried up easy money treasury bills supply
and into the private sector - see internet revolution.

So, cast the Bush tax cuts into the ash bin of history,
Return to 1993 income and capital gain tax rates,
Enact Appollo Project level mandates and targets
for production and use of clean renewabale energy,
and watch investment dollars surge into the RE sector.
Give the working, wage earning, and self employed folk
some tax credit for all those heretofore unrefundable
FICA taxes. 

about 130" out of 4,000 votes were voted "present" doesn't seem like many to me. How people vote, can be twisted by the challanger.

I am still angry about how a republican candidate picked apart bills our great Democratic US congressman voted for. He voted for some very important bills which had some goofy pork in it. The repub candidate would talk about the pork at the debates and the people had no idea of the important bill attached to it.

The repub won and we still have this bush-ditto head as our representative

He used skanky politics to win. I see that happening with Obama here.

I went to the Kucinich for President web site today; and it's now a Re elect Kucinich for Congress site. Doesn't bode well for the presidential candidacy. Has he totally given up?

13.  LOL, When we moved to Florida we bought a house in a neighborhood that was commonly referred to as the student ghetto, even by city staff.  It wasn't easy.  Realtors who listed houses there, didn't show them in the expectation that they'd be able to pick the properties up cheap and turn them into rentals.  The fellow who refused to show it turned up three months later wanting to know how come he'd lost the sale.  Duh.

Anyway, I count as one of my singular achievements (as opposed to stopping stuff) getting the area re-named as "college park," after which an interest in developing new housing to replace WWII shacks surfaced.  But it took years.  We also had to get regular garbage collection, parking enforcement, street sweeping, etc organized.  "ghetto" is a bureaucratic term used to excuse the failure to provide adequate public services. 

OBAMA AND BOBBY KENNEDY

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080111_hoping_for_change/

Obama’s fans invoke the name of Robert Kennedy when they are talking about their candidate.  There was, however, a big difference between Kennedy and the way Obama has campaigned so far.

Kennedy was an edgy, high-risk politician who wasn’t afraid of confrontation.  In speeches and in symbolic gestures he told the world he was on the side of the poor and the middle class.  He visited Cesar Chavez, a powerful gesture that proclaimed his support of the farm workers and his opposition to the powerful growers who ran California agriculture.  As U.S. attorney general, he went to impoverished Southern areas and sent his aides south on dangerous missions to enforce the law against segregationist opposition.

So far, Obama has offered a gentler approach, everyone around the table, drug companies, doctors, health care reformers, lawmakers, presided over by a compassionate Obama who believes in the power of hope and change.

As John Edwards has pointed out, that won’t work.  Yes, Edwards is still in the race, although he has dropped from the attention of the national political media after his third-place finish in New Hampshire.  Perhaps another reason Edwards has lost coverage is that two-person narrative is much easier for reporters to handle.

And remedies are complex, as Clinton points out, to the boredom of the press corps.

Ronald

the fiction is that those taxes go into a "lock box" of good paper creating the "full faith" that the current taxpayers are funding the assurance of a continuing program by building a surplus (whether or not it is looted by the current budget to cover ungoing expenses)

I think it undermines that faith to create a shortfall in the current revenues however attractive passing out cash in an election year appears to politicians.

I don't think any of the candidates aren't on board though to some form of it.

Howard Dean and his message of fiscal discipline has no takers in the current field.

Kathy Sullivan (a tool) would do well to research the life of Fanny Lou Hamer (Billary won't go over at all w/African American women in the Deep South). It's all about knowing history of oppressed racial-ethnic groups, folks.

Esp. oppressed subjugated subcultures of women.

"Iron My Shirt" renders a different P.O.V.

http://tinyurl.com/yozock

Google Alice Kessler-Harris fmi (women & "work"). Intersections of sex, race, and class.

You'll "get" intersections of coded racism and sexism (enhanced awareness).

...regardless of where/how/when you were raised.

I went to the Kucinich for President web site today; and it's now a Re elect Kucinich for Congress site. Doesn't bode well for the presidential candidacy. Has he totally given up? 

He's recounting the votes in NH, so he's still useful at least.

I may vote for him if he's on my ballot regardless of whether he's officially in or out. Nothing wrong with making statements. 

It was the Teacher’s Union – not Hillary Clinton:  And after reading their complaint - I agree.

“The teachers union has not endorsed a presidential candidate and there are no records suggesting any of the five individuals who brought the suit have contributed to presidential campaigns this election”

The party created the new precincts using a formula based on districts with more than 4,000 shift workers who could not leave work to vote, rather than one based on residency. Workers attending the hotel caucuses will have to provide identification showing them to be a shift worker and sign a declaration stating they can't attend their "home" caucus because of their work schedule.

"I don't think Hillary's campaign is behind this lawsuit. Hillary has consistently expressed her disapproval of a caucus system that requires presence at a certain time, thus preventing workers whose employers won't give them time off to exercise their right to vote. It was a problem in Iowa"

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gyvInzNqbVlZRinR5LP_RYQ8CU1AD8U4LR400

Holly J

yes the attack singling out the nine present votes by the Clinton campaign to paint the opposite position from the real one was skanky

by thrashing it out here we get to the truth of the matter

As John Edwards has pointed out, that won’t work.  Yes, Edwards is still in the race, although he has dropped from the attention of the national political media after his third-place finish in New Hampshire.  Perhaps another reason Edwards has lost coverage is that two-person narrative is much easier for reporters to handle

That's just way it goes in this crummy primary system -- you put up in IA and NH or you get shut up.

But I just just saw Edwards on TV getting to sing his spiel, so that obviously isn't being applied to him. 

www.chicagosuntimes.com

Front page article by Mitchell

What Obama said is.......''We are one nation, we are one people.''

And that statement is patently untrue.

Wake up boys, there's a light at the window,
I can hear someone knocking on the door,
There are voices in the street,
And the sound of running feet,
And they whisper the word - "Revolution!"

There are men coming down from the valleys,
There are tall ships lying off the coast,
And they carry the light,
In the dark of the night,
Like a whisper in the wind - "Revolution!"

Bring my gun and a handful of silver,
By the sea we will gather for the fight,
It's been so many years, so many tears,
We have lost once before,
Now we'll settle the score,
When our cannons will roar - "Revolution!"

Watch, and wait, get ready for the sign,
There are many here among us now,
Who have not seen the light,
We must send the word to all the people in the land,
Go to every hill and mountain,
For the time is now at hand,
To light a fire!
Light a fire,
Light a fire!

Let us march the road up the rocky hill tonight,
Under cover of the darkness,
We will slip behind the lines,
And we will take the men who have stolen our land,
For the years of domination,
Hit them right between the eyes,
And light a fire!
Light a fire,
Light a fire,
They will see through the world!

Careful steps, looking ahead
After arriving in Springfield, Barack Obama proved cautious, but it was clear to many he had ambitions beyond the state Senate
By Rick Pearson and Ray Long | Tribune staff reporters
May 3, 2007

SPRINGFIELD - Sen. Barack Obama calls himself a strong defender of abortion rights, and the presidential contender quickly condemned the recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling upholding a ban on a controversial late-term procedure. The decision, he feared, "will embolden state legislatures to enact further measures to restrict a woman's right to choose."

But this is how Obama voted in 1997 when he was new to the Illinois legislature and got a chance to take a stand against bills to impose a similar statewide ban on what critics call partial-birth abortion:

"Present," the political equivalent of taking a pass.

...

Perhaps nothing illustrated Obama's calculating style more than his approach to abortion. The state Senate voted 14 times on various abortion restrictions during his tenure. Half the time, Obama voted "present."

...

Perhaps nothing illustrated Obama's calculating style more than his approach to abortion. The state Senate voted 14 times on various abortion restrictions during his tenure. Half the time, Obama voted "present."

He said it was a strategy agreed to by abortion-rights advocates to insulate Democrats from political backlash in more conservative areas. But Obama's Hyde Park district was one of the state's most liberal.

(Abortion rights activists quickly stated there was no such agreement, then)

[Obama has defended his present votes in the state legislature, saying that many of them were part of a broader structured political strategy blessed by legislative leaders]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/polit...

Voting "present" is a stratergy, people.

...part and parcel of the legislative process.

Some of you need to revisit 10th grade civics class (how laws are made, #101).

Pls. Google, & self-educate.

And that statement is patently untrue.

That opinion is as valid as any. But claiming Obama was literally translating Hitler was political sewery on your part.

I should have called you on it yesterday, but I tend toward trust of the people on this blog and was lazy. 

Voting "present" is a stratergy, people.

...part and parcel of the legislative process.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"the get along go along" part mainefem

I know why it is used

From the excellent Ron Paul resource page Primarily Paul:

Due to violating party rules, the Democratic National Committee has stripped Michigan of all its delegates to the Democratic National Convention. You can vote in the Democrat’s primary, but no Michigan delegates will be sent to the DNC to vote for you.

As if that isn’t bad enough, most candidates running for the Democrat’s nomination didn’t even register to be on the ballot or have withdrawn their names. Here is a list of people who will be on the ballot: Hillary Clinton, Mike Gravel, and Dennis Kucinich. So if you wanted to vote for Barack Obama, John Edwards, or any other candidate you’re SOL because they won’t even be on the ballot.

Instead of casting a meaningless vote on the Democrat’s ticket, you can vote in the Republican primary, helping bring a “win-win” ballot for the 2008 Presidential election by voting for Ron Paul. The war in Iraq has consistently rated the highest issue important to voters. Another issue not polled which I’m sure matters to voters is the restoration of our civil liberties.

Ron Paul is the only Republican candidate who is against the Iraq war and for the restoration of our civil liberties. All of the Democrats oppose the war in Iraq, so by voting for Ron Paul in the Republican primary you can help create a “win-win” 2008 Presidential ballot. It will be an anti-war, pro civil liberties Democrat versus an anti-war, pro civil liberties Republican. No matter who wins the election, the war will end and our civil liberties will be restored.

Linda--read mainefem's link. It explains the votes especially the abortion bills

http://thecapitolfaxblog.com/2007/12/04/...

IL politics stink and Democrats fighting Democrats stink. It is very difficult to understand if you don't live in the state

Perhaps nothing illustrated Obama's calculating style more than his approach to abortion.

I've wondered whether Edwards' support for the worst of Bush's agenda was because of political calculation, corruption, or plain stupidity. I've decided that it doesn't really matter as far as being qualified for the presidency is concerned.

I know quite a few couples who cancel out each others votes in the voting booth, so they jsut vote "present" by staying home.

KEEP EDWARDS'S HOPE ALIVE... Outspent 6 to 1, John Edwards' fiery populist message beat the Clinton machine in Iowa.

Unafraid to use the "C" word--Corporate power and greed--Edwards appeared Thursday night to be a man in motion and on a mission. Exhausted from his "middle class marathon" tour, his passionate and unconventional non-concession speech was a challenge to the status quo powers which are depriving decent Americans of healthcare, jobs and their democracy. "The status quo lost and change won," Edwards told the Iowa crowd.


Some have compared Iowa's winner Barack Obama to JFK, and his elegant, broad-gauged and inspiring words of change and hope brought home the historic moment he embodies. Yet Edwards, in these last months, has reminded me of another Kennedy--Bobby--whose political and intellectual odyssey was linked to the passion and, yes, anger he felt as he witnessed grinding poverty in Appalachia and racist inequality in the barrios of the richest country in the world.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignm...

Obviously falling on deaf ears, mainefem. Sheesh

Holly thanks for noticing the link didn't work. The article is on the front webpage of the Chicago Sun Times and it's a story that I'll be following in the weeks ahead.

The 8th District CPD has always been a sickening group. Can't say much for the firefighters either, unfortunately. My ex friend is married to the captain and the stories I've heard about who they service, as opposed as who they "won't" are chilling.

Instead of casting a meaningless vote on the Democrat’s ticket, you can vote in the Republican primary

Holly J

yes in that instance it appears Obama was one of the good guys

and to me it does seem that is what he is offering the country

the option of giving Republicans a chance to vote "present" in Washington

I think it is central to his campaign.

that is why it was singled out for a rovian attack

KEEP EDWARDS'S HOPE ALIVE...

So Edwards is now coopting Obama's HOPE theme .... the one Edwardiacs have been attacking as without substance.

But at least Obama is talking about hope for everyone and not just for his own sinking candidacy. 

Caucuses are a state legislative issue (funding).

Too late. Take it to your legislature; and get the damned laws changed in NV (as well as the appropriations to fund a primary, too), folks.

Again...stop "emoting" about things about which you have zero control over (in other states).

Kucinich is probably broke (most likely, he's significantly in debt). Google his most recent FEC report. How candidates & 527s spend money is revealing. opensecrets.org

I don't think anyone doesn't agree that voting present isn't a strategy. LOL

That stll doesn't change that it was "calculating" to not vote conviction, if he actually believed in supporting those rights as even indicated in the Chicago paper.

mainefem wrote "Voting 'present' is a stratergy, people."

For some people, the fanciful version of events has more pizzazz than the actual version.

I don't think anyone doesn't agree that voting present isn't a strategy. LOL That stll doesn't change that it was "calculating"

I would hope that everyone also agrees that all politicians are calculating. If they weren't, they'd be bloggers (even though some bloggers also seem calculating in their own small ways.) 

Caucuses are a state legislative issue (funding).
~~~~~~~~~~~~

they cost a great deal less to put on than an election

I think the hardest thing as an elected official is to decide to vote on a bill that has good and bad parts to it. You will never win with people that argue for the different sides. You will always make both sides mad at you and if you vote "present" people think you aren't committed. Sheesh

I was always against caucuses Phil but it is really hard to have rig the voting machine is people vote with their body in different corners of the room. :-)

I look to see Obama win because people will be caucusing

Caucuses are a state legislative issue (funding).
~~~~~~~~~~~~

they cost a great deal less to put on than an election

And result in much lower turnout than in primaries. 

Instead of casting a meaningless vote on the Democrat’s ticket, you can vote in the Republican primary

49.

Sitka WROTE:
Sun, 01/13/08


KEEP EDWARDS'S HOPE ALIVE...

So Edwards is now coopting Obama's HOPE theme .... the one Edwardiacs have been attacking as without substance.

But at least Obama is talking about hope for everyone and not just for his own sinking candidacy.

________________________________________

ROFLMAO....now that is a good one.


Oh yes, the new Senator from Illinois....copying everyone. Idealized Bill Clinton's gift for gab, studied his gift and even Russert played Bill's "92" speech that admitted it sounded like Obama now.



Edwards: 'Hope is on the way'
Running mate delivers populist pitch for a Kerry presidency

By Sean Loughlin
CNN Washington Bureau

Thursday, July 29, 2004 Posted: 12:58 PM EDT (1658 GMT)
Sen. John Edwards addresses convention: "We can build one America."


America Votes 2004



BOSTON, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Declaring that "hope is on the way," John Edwards delivered an impassioned and populist pitch Wednesday night for Democrats to retake the White House this fall.




News archive results for 2004 Edwards Hope for America
2004 » Edwards: Kerry offers hope for 'future of America' - CNN
2004 » Edwards: 'Hope is on the way' - CNN
2004 » Edwards: 'Hope is on the way' - Oregon Daily Emerald

ok I need to go and get things done -- I meant to say

It is really hard to rig the voting machine if the citizens vote with their bodies

Lazy people, Denise (or a combination of cognitive dissonnance--perhaps both).

AS someone who's testified many times before the legislature (as well as lobbied like hell-esp. for reproductive choice issues).

I know from whence I speak.

Same is true, re: state statutes pertaining to elections, etc.

I'm not "for" any candidate; however, I do expect all bloggers to research thoroughly before opening their mouths--long before commenting, and spreading misinformation (and to understand the legislative process). Yes, both state and federal.

Fact check first.

Your percpetions and opinions mean zipshit at this point in the election cycle.

If you don't understand how government works, teach thyself/enroll in a freakin' 10th grade civics class.

Look up the effin' roll call votes, people.

D.I.Y.

A Boeing Employee just gave me an example - Teacher's Union in Nevada.

Let's say - the Boeing Union in Seattle decided to endorse Hillary Clinton -

SO, to make it 'easier for their employees to vote' - they set up caucuses inside their several Boeing plants in Seattle.  ATTENDED by their Boeing union leaders, the caucuses could have 'undo' influence for who the employees voted for.   Also - taking 110,000 people out of their 'normal precincts'..leaving those precincts with much less voting power.   The teachers are trying to change the law right now.  I agree with them.   It almost looks like - there's some BIG money being bet on Obama...

<> it is really hard to have rig the voting machine is people vote with their body in different corners of the room

<>Not at all. I posted an article before the IA caucuses which described how, in 2004, the person who chaired a caucus undercounted the number of people in the room so that his candidate would meet the 15% threshold.

<>Either no one noticed, or they didn't care enough to challenge it. 

To answer a question asked here yesterday -

If Obama does not get the nomination, I would vote for Edwards, should he get it.

If Hllary gets it I'll vote for the Peace and Justice candidate on my ballot.

In Iowa you have to be a registered Democrat to caucus in the Democratic caucus.

in New Hampshire you can vote without actually becoming a registered Democratic Party member

Iowa had bigger turnout of Democrats than did New Hampshire

comparing apples and oranges

Oh yes, the new Senator from Illinois....copying everyone

My memory hasn't faded to the point where I can't remember Edwards and Kerry both coopting Dean's message before his political corpse was even cold. They've all been doing it to each other this year too.

You used to post quite effective exposes of Obama's record (Edwards' and Hillary's too). You should go back to that. 

66. You should go back to you claiming you don't have to make excuses for Obama

Iowa had bigger turnout of Democrats than did New Hampshire

I count people, not just Democrats.

And if Democrats want Indy's to vote for them in the fall, including them in their primaries and caucuses makes political sense. 

mainefem

I think everyone would agree that a "present" vote means a deal has been made.

66. You should go back to you claiming you don't have to make excuses for Obama

I just refute the mountains of garbage being piled by Edwardiacs.

If there were any Obamians or Hillaroids doing the same I'd refute them too. 

. . .Howard Dean and his message of fiscal discipline has no takers in the current field."


Right, no lock box, and economically it would probably be harmful if there was.
That is to say, there isn't any stimulus from money hidden under a mattress.
The excess FICA revenues could be dedicated to paying off some off the national
debt or covering any start up shortfalls in an affordable public heath insurance program.

Reagan and the 80's Congress shifted much of the tax "burden", I'll call it tax funding responsibility, to wage earners and the Repugs have fallen over themselves to reduce taxes on unearned investor wealth ever since. (except for George the 1st breaking his 
"read my lips" cant)

Howard Dean 04 campaigned for restoring the Clinton tax rates enacted in 1993.
Do that and there is no shortfall.
A new tax credit earned by payers of FICA is a true big D Democratic policy,
good politically, economically, and passes the fairness test.
With the economy headed for hard times, this puts spending money into working peoples' pockets and helps them cope with the increasing costs of food and energy.

what is at stake is the name on the ballot opposite the Democratic Party label

explain to me again why people who are not willing to go on record as being members of the party should pick the nominee

they get their chance in the fall

Sitka wrote
Sun, 01/13/08


I just refute the mountains of garbage being piled by Edwardiacs.


---->>what some call garbage, most other call facts and record.


If there were any Obamians or Hillaroids doing the same I'd refute them too.

----->>>evidence on all these bfa threads evidence to the contrary.

advocating tax cuts (whatever they are called) during times of record deficit is simple robbery of our children's income to pay for our spending

end the war

Phil wrote "I think everyone would agree that a "present" vote means a deal has been made."

No!

But seriously, the deal in this case was orchestrated by the womens' right group that Obama was supporting, as this excerpt from the Sun Times makes clear: "'The poor guy is getting all this heat for a strategy we, the pro-choice community, did,' said Pam Sutherland, president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council."

Maine will have such poor turnout that they'll have to find $$$ somewhere for primaries in the future.

They can't recruit convenors...it's that pathetic (and have lost over 10K Dems. since '04; and counting). Which also means anyone running for office will have to hustle on their own, in order to get their nomination papers signed. Oopsie.

Over half of the towns and cities in my county do NOT have convenors; which means that those folks are automatically disenfranchised...can't vote w/o one.

The state party must be desperate, as I was spammed 4 times yesterday (touting the DNC) by a local activist--told her to knock it off--I don't appreciate my email being spammed w/o permission (also means their voter list is terribly stale).

I unenrolled 4 mos. ago.

Let 'em crash, I say. Caucuses only benefit harcore insiders--doesn't work in primarily unenrolled voter status states like mine. Too many insider control freaks.

2000 was a primary; and turnout was exponentially higher.

We do have "librul" absentee caucus voting laws & same day registration here (most states do not), but turnout will still be a total disaster.

explain to me again why people who are not willing to go on record as being members of the party should pick the nominee

Because if you want them to be interested enough to vote for that nominee it behooves to allow them a say in choosing.

You can't tell people to go away and expect them to come back later. 

Linda wrote "what some call garbage, most other call facts and record."

I have to admit that in the case of Edwards, It's hard to argue that the terms record and garbage are not synoymous.

advocating tax cuts (whatever they are called) during times of record deficit is simple robbery of our children's income to pay for our spending

 It's hard to argue that the terms record and garbage are not synoymous.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

true of posts too Tom lol

Phil wrote "true of posts too Tom lol"

You've said a mouthful, Phil.

like I said sitka, Howard Dean isn't in the race, and all of the Democratic candidates are trying to buy votes with tax cuts instead of dealing with the deficit

 "what some call garbage, most other call facts and record."

You usd to post facts about all the candidates' records before you joined Camp Edwards.

I liked that and learned much from you -- even some things about Obama that I hold against him. Now you just post trivialities and smears that elucidate nothing substantive. Why does supporting Edwards seem to bring down so many down to a lower level?

ABOUUUUUUT…FACE!

How the Religious Right has changed the message, so they can endorse the Republican candidates: (and they can't agree on which one).  

LeHaye backing Huckabee:  “America and our Judeo-Christian heritage are under attack by a force that is more destructive than any America has faced since Hitler”. Dr. LaHaye and his wife, Beverly, wrote in letters sent to lists of conservative Christians . . .

Robertson backing Giuliani:  …”we may disagree on social issues, those disagreements "pale into insignificance" when measured against the import of the fight against global terrorism and radical Islam”..

Dobson backing Huckabee, maybe: "Washington Prowler" says that Dobson will throw his support to the former Baptist preacher in Iowa and then join him for a bus tour. 

I knew I was in a handbasket to somewhere, but I didn't know I was on a "lower level". Does that mean I'll get "somewhere" faster?

sp=hardcore.

NH primary voters (who walk in unenrolled--and enroll in a party that day) may also unenroll from said party on their way out of the precinct (if they wish).

Unique.

Very Libertarian mindset (go figger, for the "live free or die" folks").

Not everyone in this country is a hardcore party hack (parties need to understand that lil' factoid).

Esp. considering the base activists of both parties are not at all happy w/issues inside the Beltway (or in state legislatures, for that matter).

There's always been a raging war within the [un]democratic party; and this particular election cycle is about to get *realy* ugle (race and sex--toss in class as a metaphorical crouton of sorts).

Fasten your seatbelts.

Long overdue.

like I said sitka, Howard Dean isn't in the race, and all of the Democratic candidates are trying to buy votes with tax cuts instead of dealing with the deficit

No, Phil. You said........

Advocating tax cuts (whatever they are called) during times of record deficit is simple robbery of our children's income to pay for our spending

And I replied..... 

Edwards proposes 3 new tax cuts to help middle class

But if you're now debunking the charge that Obama alone is calling for tax cuts, I'll commend you for it.

32.  The caucuses are being held on Saturday when teachers don't teach.  This system was set up and debated months ago.  One would think that teachers could do things in a more timely fashion; not in the last minute.

Click here to go to our online store

seashell that should get you to your Edwards gear

I didn't know I was on a "lower level"

You're not. You've remained fair enough.

seashell that should get you to your Edwards gear

I just bought some -- the model of the sinking ship with "Edwards 2008" painted on the side. ;-) 

83. Now you just post trivialities and smears that elucidate nothing substantive. Why does supporting Edwards seem to bring down so many down to a lower level?

your accusations have no merit. Apparently people just attack the messenger that posts facts supporters of other candiddates don't like to acknowledge.

I post facts...i don't resort to all the name calling and smearing that goes on here.

Now people call folks lazy or more when they don't like a factual article I post. Or if I post a favorable item, it's called garbage.

Face it, some just want to name call, attack and be divisive. It apparently makes them feel better to denegrade bloggers instead of dealing with their preferred candidates record.

...I'm glad not to be in that camp.

Linda wrote "I post facts...i don't resort to all the name calling and smearing that goes on here."

The characterization by you and others of Obama's "present" votes was completely discredited by means of thorough sourcing, so saying "I post facts" is a little more credit than is warranted.

Apparently people just attack the messenger that posts facts supporters of other candiddates don't like to acknowledge.

Tell me about it. Phil accused me of prejudice against southern white men because I don't support Edwards (even though I happened to be raisd as one). 

I post facts...i don't resort to all the name calling and smearing that goes on here.

Your posts used to be about records. Now they're mostly like this.....

<>Oh yes, the new Senator from Illinois....copying everyone. Idealized Bill Clinton's gift for gab, studied his gift and even Russert played Bill's "92" speech that admitted it sounded like Obama now.

<>....without substance. 

I hope when Edwards drops out  -- or gets the Kucinich irrelevancy treatment --  the old, cool, Linda will come back. 

93. LOL...oh do share...what is this characterizastion of obama's present votes you claim I made. That he could take a stand and vote yes or no...repeating and agreeing with the Obama supporters that "present" was "STRATEGIC".....OOOHHHH...my my. Oh yes, I would discredit that as much as Obama supporters are trying too.

Clinton, Edwards, and Obama are all calling for tax cuts.

Clinton,Edwards, and Obama all say they will start pulling troops out of Iraq as soon as they get in the White House.

Clinton,Edwards, and Obama all say that they are for Universal Health Care. Edwards was first with a plan and the others are similar. 

Edwards has a plan to cut carbon emissions, they all do, to emphasise renewable energy as the engine of a new economy, they all do.

They do differ on other aspects of the tax code, they do differ on the emphasis of their take on other issues such as education, where John Edwards focuses more on those currently left behind.

In fact poverty and it's elimination is a much higher priority of his than the other two candidates.

But the main difference is in how they will get those goals accomplished. and in the details that lead to who will be the ultimate winners and losers.

and to which is the candidate for ONE America, we all know who is disatisfied the most with our current TWO.

Id take a handful of people here over Edwards, Obama and Hillary in the election................

Linda wrote "what is this characterizastion of obama's present votes you claim I made. That he could take a stand and vote yes or no...repeating and agreeing with the Obama supporters that "present" was "STRATEGIC".....OOOHHHH...my my."

Exactly.  That he didn't take a stand by voting present was specifically rejected by the womens' rights group chair who helped fashion the plan.

I will give supporters of Obama credit for taking the highest road and posting the least bottomless political rhetoric.

If we could give the "most undemocratic candidate's campaign strategy of the week" award, my vote would give it to Clinton's campaign, which had a great deal to do with the Nevada State Education Asso. lawsuit to prevent shift workers from having a convenient place to caucus.

The motivations and timing are clear. The suit was filed a couple days after Obama was endorsed by the Culinary workers Union, a union her campaign aggressively fought to get for herself.

When Clinton was asked about the lawsuit, she said something to the effect that as many caucusers as possible should have the opportunity to caucus but also that she had no opinion on the lawsuit. Right! Ha.

Another aspect of this is Harry Reid's involvement in the whole tawdry affair. He endorsed Clinton (no problem) but also tried but failed to secure this endorsement for Clinton.

Did Harry Reid use his position as Senate majority leader in any way to try and secure this endorsement? If so, did he use his position to promise something to the union in return for anything.

If he did, it tells me a lot about Harry Reid that I probably don't want to know. Investigation?

Mike wrote "Id take a handful of people here over Edwards, Obama and Hillary in the election................"

Yes, but you'd take Ron Paul over them, too.  

Id take a handful of people here over Edwards, Obama and Hillary in the election......

True that. 

94.

Sitka wrote:


Your posts used to be about records. Now they're mostly like this.....

Oh yes, the new Senator from Illinois....copying everyone. Idealized Bill Clinton's gift for gab, studied his gift and even Russert played Bill's "92" speech that admitted it sounded like Obama now.


**************************

Auh yes, an error made in responding to you or Tom. Where you selectively pull out one little piece and run with it, making an entire false argument.


Linda NM
Sun, 01/13/08

49.

Sitka WROTE:
Sun, 01/13/08


KEEP EDWARDS'S HOPE ALIVE...

So Edwards is now coopting Obama's HOPE theme .... the one Edwardiacs have been attacking as without substance.

But at least Obama is talking about hope for everyone and not just for his own sinking candidacy.

________________________________________

ROFLMAO....now that is a good one.


Oh yes, the new Senator from Illinois....copying everyone. Idealized Bill Clinton's gift for gab, studied his gift and even Russert played Bill's "92" speech that admitted it sounded like Obama now.



Edwards: 'Hope is on the way'
Running mate delivers populist pitch for a Kerry presidency

By Sean Loughlin
CNN Washington Bureau

Thursday, July 29, 2004 Posted: 12:58 PM EDT (1658 GMT)
Sen. John Edwards addresses convention: "We can build one America."


America Votes 2004



BOSTON, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Declaring that "hope is on the way," John Edwards delivered an impassioned and populist pitch Wednesday night for Democrats to retake the White House this fall.




News archive results for 2004 Edwards Hope for America
2004 » Edwards: Kerry offers hope for 'future of America' - CNN
2004 » Edwards: 'Hope is on the way' - CNN
2004 » Edwards: 'Hope is on the way' - Oregon Daily Emerald

If we could give the "most undemocratic candidate's campaign strategy of the week" award, my vote would give it to Clinton's campaign, which had a great deal to do with the Nevada State Education Asso. lawsuit to prevent shift workers from having a convenient place to caucus.

Is restricting turnout the first or last refuge of political scoundrels?

Well, it was an exciting bried visit to get a word in.

Ciao!

92.

I post facts...i don't resort to all the name calling and smearing that goes on here.

Linda,

I'm glad you have now seen the right way to do things here on this blog.

News archive results for 2004 Edwards Hope for America
2004 » Edwards: Kerry offers hope for 'future of America' - CNN
2004 » Edwards: 'Hope is on the way' - CNN
2004 » Edwards: 'Hope is on the way' - Oregon Daily Emerald

Based on the attacks against Obama for using hope and a substitute for substance, I assumed it was his own theme.

Thanks for clearing that up. 

By voting present he provided cover for Republicans who could also vote present which was part of a deal.

that the deal had the blessing of Planned Parenthood was why the Republicans couldn't just come out and vote for it.

the fact that this undermines his credibility as someone who will do politics differently is why Hillary backers used it in a rovian smear

I don't have a problem with legislative deal making if Democratic values come out ahead, maybe he can give Harry Reid some lessons in how to handle Republican obstructionists

...a quick information post on one environmental note.

Costco Business catalog and online, is now selling much recycled products;paper, binders, file folders etc.

http://www.costco.com/Common/Category.as...|1892&lang=en-US

This "present' vote thing is getting old hat. It was presented, heavily discussed and finalized, or should have been.

To keep this anti-Dem candidate discussion going is only to give it wings for the Repugs and Clinto to fly high on and the last I knew they were the opposition here.

Phil wrote "By voting present [Obama] provided cover for Republicans who could also vote present which was part of a deal."

IPPC President Pam Sutherland told ABC News that "We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes."

104.

Hard to tell with the dirty Clintos. Like all good Republicans, if they lose they will go down claiming victory.

Strategy:

[...]

"In 1997, Obama voted against SB 230, which would have turned doctors into felons by banning so-called partial-birth abortion, & against a 2000 bill banning state funding. Although these bills included an exception to save the life of the mother, they didn't include anything about abortions necessary to protect the health of the mother. The legislation defined a fetus as a person, & could have criminalized virtually all abortion."

[...]

http://tinyurl.com/38v93d

Damned fine strategy. Pam Sutherland knows her shit.

Wording of legislation matters (as well as what's missing).

Bigtime.

Stop spreading misinformation & "emoting."

I'm certainly not supporting Obama...just pointing out how verbiage and strategy *matter*--esp. w/women's reproductive rights legislation.

What's left of 'em....

Google any/all legislation & roll call votes fmi.

Obama uses HOPE because it has an O central to it's spelling which he can use to make cool yard signs which remind people of his message while linking to his name, and that is quite clever.

Optimism versus realism isn't really the discussion

I hope the young idealists drawn to the Obama message stick around when the going gets tough and are willing to join the epic battle.

Been gone for a while . In NC working on our house. We are running out of money so looks like I get to do some painting and landscaping. come on down and help.

And I see Sitka, you can't let it go.

We get it , ya don't like edwards. Who would have thunk.

Waiting for your snide remarks with baited breath.

I have to wonder if George Washington ever used the word "hope."

Such pettiness about a word.

Voting 'present' isn't about "deal-making," folks.

Read the *verbiage* of said legislation (as well as what's missing).

It's downright *scary* to me that so-called political activist bloggers don't know jack shit about fundamental 10th grade civics.

Welcome back linda b

117.

It's downright *scary* to me that so-called political activist bloggers don't know jack shit about fundamental 10th grade civics.

At our DEC meeting Thursday, my ears were burning while listening to a great majority of these supposedly informed activist members on a supposedly informed executive committee, clamoring to have a letter-writing campaign to Howard Dean.

The object? To get him to change our "preferential presidential election" coming up in a vew weeks to one that would have our votes counted.

They had no clue nor did they care as to how this would violate the DNC protocol or that it would require an entirely new regular primary election, and not to mention that a judge here has already dismissed a Bill Nelson lawsuit more than a month ago which asked for the same thing and was denied because it is too late to change any election (not to mention other reasons)!

Know what's happening (or not), re: women's reproductive rights in *your* state (no excuse for ignorance, people).

Verbiage markup matters (as do "present" votes.

If you folks are any indication of the ignorance of the American electorate (vs. "emoting"); that's f^cking scary.

It's no small wonder Rethugs have relegated women back into the cave.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/

Obama uses HOPE because it has an O central to it's spelling which he can use to make cool yard signs which remind people of his message while linking to his name, and that is quite clever.

Optimism versus realism isn't really the discussion.

Edwards meant it when he said HOPE. Obama doesn't.

Thanks for clearing that up and adding real substance to the debate.

I hope the young idealists drawn to the Obama message stick around when the going gets tough and are willing to join the epic battle.

You're a person of many talents, and writing maudlin political polemics is one of them. 

114.

I hope the young idealists drawn to the Obama message stick around when the going gets tough and are willing to join the epic battle.

Or an Edwards Winning battle. W -- oh, oh, guess not.

No need to wait for my snide remarks when you have a treasury of your own. 

Joan* In*Florida

"executive committee"

????

Send them home, Joan. They're incompetent...let alone, dangerous to be seated on any executive committee...in a position of power.

NO WAY.

There's no excuse for that sort of ignorance--esp. if they have an internet connection, a browser, and Google.

Nada.

Re-write your committee's bylaws (embed the links on your portal's page, so that they can't say "I didn't know that"), is is my suggestion.

The DNC's delegate selection plan ('08) is widely available on their portal, too. Embed the damned link (or have whomever is supposed to do it, hop on it).

That's not only ignorant & scary, but is a sheer waste of valuable time (unpaid) for all who attended.

Obama called the "notion" that his campaign is responsible for the backlash Hillary Clinton has faced about her comments on Martin Luther King Jr.'s role in the in the civil rights movement "ludicrous".Hillary = high bitch-tess!

121.

Edwards meant it when he said HOPE. Obama doesn't.

The originator of the Hope theme Obama,  means it a whole lot more than a me-tooer like Edwards does.

114. linda b

No need to wait for my snide remarks when you have a treasury of your own. 

oh thank you, you made may day!!! you don't dissapoint.

This should have stood alone...

Hillary = high bitch-tess!  

I wondered how long it would be before someone suggested that we shouldn't question or examine all of the Dem candidates, because the Rep were our opponents.

That's what primaries are for. Does anyone here think that we would be able to come up with any info that Rove doesn't already have in his file?

125.

At which time Obama also announced his endorsement by Senator Claire McCaskill and answered to a lot of other Clinton attacks. He said he was going to begin doing this and not be left sitting in the backwash like Kerry was during the swift boating.

Go get her Barack!

Duh.

http://www.democrats.org/a/convention_20...

Well, that is illumnating.... Obama means "hope" more than Edwards does. Now, there's one you don't have to go to google for. How in the world do you know that for sure?

More Obama defense against Hill the Pill:

"She started this campaign saying she wanted to make history but lately she's been rewriting it," he added.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/13/574170.aspx

129. Audrey, indeed.


There is just so much hypocrisy here. I see I made a mistake even coming back to just post a few things instead of sticking around for the personal onslaught. But that's what there is here.

Don't confront Obama supporters with facts. They get angry, mean, offensive, trite, accusatory and condescending, because they've made a choice, based solely on emotion and facts get in the way of the unfounded decision they made.

Enjoy!

Tom Bearse
Sun, 01/13/08

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Wrong again Tom...........where Im a big fan of his foreign policy agenda, his domestic policies are pretty bad, so therefore I woud not advocate him..................bu I will hold to my ideals and sit this election out thank you......................I wont be alone

Linda NM
Sun, 01/13/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dont wrry about the Obama supporters here..........they and many others are desperate for a victory in November.................you know though, Edwards, Obama and Hillary are all pretyy bad.........Obama is a fake for the most part, edwards same thing just wth a bit more history, Hillary is the worst of the lot.....................thanks to our foolish 2 party system, that whats left to choose from................................dont worry, neither one of them will beat the Republicans, and im sorry to say Dean would have wasted the last 4 years.............................nice try though, poo choices and policies...............

34.  Thanks Denise.  I've stolen it for Hannah.  Makes a nice balance with the Charlie stories.  Blacks take the brunt, but the police are not reluctant to take on whoever they think they can get away with.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/12/vulgar.check.ap/index.html 

audrey wrote "Obama means 'hope' more than Edwards does. . . . How in the world do you know that for sure?"

Some think Edwards means hope and Obama doesn't.  I'm unclear how a person knows that for sure.  Probably by asking the candidate's communications director.

Tom Bearse
Sun, 01/13/08

-----

Some think Edwards means hope and Obama doesn't. I'm unclear how a person knows that for sure. Probably by asking the candidate's communications director.
--------

LOL!

Mike wrote "Wrong again Tom...........where Im a big fan of his foreign policy agenda, his domestic policies are pretty bad, so therefore I woud not advocate him."

Then I was misled when you touted his merits here.  I suppose it's possible to advocate the selection of a candidate with whom you agree entirely on every issue, but I can't figure out who  that would be.

Linda NM....

Don't run off, all voices are needed. Actually, I have some empathy for the Obama supporters. I think the desperate need for someone to lead us away from our checkered past is tempting. I don't think we should put that on to one person. We are the ones who will need to do that.

Racism is something that still exists, and we need to deal with it daily. I don't think it's the main problem that confronts us, and that is the strangle hold of Corporatism, that has us all in a box.

"125. Karen"

Esp. South of the Mason-Dixon Line.

It'll play *really* well to the African American community (not to mention, Big Dog's incessant flapping of his gums).

They have excellent collective historical memory, BTW. For good reason.

LBJ isn't one of their heroes, by a longshot.

http://tinyurl.com/32zxeu

He hasn't learned when to STFU (it isn't his campaign--someone send Bill Post-It). Hillary's negatives are thru the roof. Duh.

They're both somewhat compatible in their levels of enmeshment and dysfunction (any women who lives w/a moronic husband like him for decades isn't at all intelligent/mature, in my book).

She has no judgment...I certainly don't want Billary running the most powerful country in the world, if she can't manage her own effin' personal life appropriately!

Nada.

Again--I'm unenrolled; and don't support anyone.

However, there's a time to leave well enough alone in life....

You're welcome, Monica. Just ticks me off - would love to know exactly which neighborhood this took place in. Maybe I'll drop Mary an email. She is a superb journalist, by the way. Been reading her for years.

By the way, anything written by any Chicago Tribune reporter (the Obama piece referenced at the beginning of the thread from 2004) has to be read with a GOP grain of salt, as the Trib is a much more conservative tome.

Linda in NM, stay strong, you are my hero.

Come on down to NC when ya get the chance. we will go down on the pier and yell at the world.

For those interested: 

Obama will be on CNN momentarily from Vegas with a live speech.

His supporters are too loud right now and CNN wouldn't want us to see that so a Romney replay is on.

I went to the Kucinich for President web site today; and it's now a Re elect Kucinich for Congress site. Doesn't bode well for the presidential candidacy. Has he totally given up?  

+++

john nelson -

Normally I'd advise you to direct your question to a Kucinich supporter like Huron John but it seems like Huron has been too busy for too long here on this blog being AGAINST someone (Obama) rather than spending more of his time and posts being FOR someone (Kucinich).

Linda wrote "I see I made a mistake even coming back to just post a few things instead of sticking around for the personal onslaught. But that's what there is here.  Don't confront Obama supporters with facts. They get angry, mean, offensive, trite, accusatory and condescending, because they've made a choice, based solely on emotion and facts get in the way of the unfounded decision they made."

I don't understand how it's a mistake to post things, unless you simply do it with the intention of etching them in the record without comment from readers.  Maybe you do.

I'm also curious about the process by which all posts about Edwards are converted into facts and all posts about Obama become angy, mean, offensive, trite accusations and condescension.  How did one candidate's supporters obtain the franchise on truth and the other on villainy?  It's an odd coincidence.  Feel free to respond with facts to this heretical calumny.

Hillary is using Nevada teachers to disenfranchise Nevada culinary workers --

a post on the Obama '08 blog:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/CVMc#comments

Calling All Teachers!  

By waterprise2

Today at 8:52 am EST

and former teachers, spouses of teachers, children of teachers, and students of teachers!

BTW: If you can read this, thank a teacher!

I am calling on all of the above to immediately and forcefully contact the Nevada State Education Association:

Lynn Warne, President
Nevada State Education Association
lynn.warne@nsea-nv.org

http://www.nsea-nv.org/

For teachers and a teacher's UNION to blatantly try to disenfranchise fellow union members is ATROCIOUS!

Teachers are SUPPOSED to be role models for the American way!

After HRC lost in IA, she whined and blamed the caucus system because "her supporters" (including restaurant workers) couldn't attend.

Almost a year ago, it was voted to allow "at-large" caucuses just to solve that problem.

However, now that HRC did NOT receive the endorsement of the Culinary Workers Union, she wants to change the dynamics. If she had the endorsement, this would not have happened.

ALL TEACHERS and anyone connected with education...

please immediately write and call to let them know of our disgust at this turn of events.

It is more than just trying to win over Senator Obama...it is blatant vote suppression.

We're mad as h*ll and we're not going to stand for it!!

Si Se Puede!  

Tom Bearse...Joan in Fl.


JThe comment "Obama means "hope" more than Edwards does", was in reply to something Joan in Fl. said. I forgot to polst the # at top.

Or if the commuications director was not available, you could ask the donor who had given the most money. lol

"137. Monica Smith"

Bbbbbut, according to Clovis Watson & his Alachua hillbilly goons, Charlie is potentially "violent" (an imminent threat to himself, as well as to society); and is in dire need of a mental health status psychiatric exam, Monica.

...along w/confiscating his tape recorder and eyeglasses.

{{insert sarcasm & winks here}}

http://tinyurl.com/2asjkk

Congrats, Chargers!!!
-----
Tom, I'm glad I keep a thesaurus handy...

audrey wrote "The comment 'Obama means "hope" more than Edwards does', was in reply to something Joan in Fl. said."

I saw that.  My comment that "[s]ome think Edwards means hope and Obama doesn't" was a paraphrase of Sitka's comment "Edwards meant it when he said HOPE[;] Obama doesn't," which, if I'm not mistaken, Joan was responding to.

attempt at voter suppression in Nevada - culinary workers fight back:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jan/13/culinary-leader-closing-sites-strip-would-strike-c/

By J. Patrick Coolican, David McGrath Schwartz, Michael Mishak

Sun, Jan 13, 2008 (2 a.m.)

Nevada’s largest and most politically active union fired back Saturday at an attempt to shut down caucus sites on the Strip intended to allow its workers to caucus Jan. 19, when state Democrats make their choice for a presidential nominee. Culinary Union Secretary-Treasurer D. Taylor demanded that Nevada’s Democratic elected officials and the presidential campaigns denounce a lawsuit that would eliminate the nine “at-large” caucus locations designed for shift workers, both union and nonunion. Shutting down the sites, which allow anyone who works within 2 1/2 miles of one to caucus there, would undermine the legitimacy of the caucus, he said.

By Taylor’s logic, the lawsuit could threaten the future of Nevada’s early presidential voting status.

“This is an attempt to wholesale disenfranchise people who are largely women, largely people of color, and people who do the kind of work that makes this town go,” Taylor said. The campaigns and senior Democratic officials “have to condemn this. Anything short of that will clearly be a sign that they obviously think it’s OK to disenfranchise voters.”

The Clinton campaign, which unsuccessfully sought the 60,000-member union’s endorsement, declined to take up Taylor’s offer.

“Not for us to decide,” said Rory Reid, Clinton’s state chairman, in an e-mail to the Sun. “We just want the process to be fair.”

The campaign of Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, who received the endorsement last week, quickly condemned the lawsuit.

“We believe as a party, and a country, we should be looking for ways to include working men and women in the electoral process, not disenfranchise them,” said David Cohen, the campaign’s state director.

The lawsuit, filed on behalf of the Nevada State Education Association and five party activists, claims that those voting in at-large precincts would have too much weight compared with those voting at their neighborhood polling places, violating the equal protection law of the U.S. Constitution. It also claims the at-large precincts violate state law in the way they were drawn.

But a major premise of the lawsuit appears to be false, according to a Sun analysis.

Even if there is considerably high turnout for instance, 10,000 people those at-large precincts will provide just 6 percent of the state’s overall delegates. Because Nevada is holding a caucus, not a primary, the winner will be based on the number of delegates a candidate receives, not the total number of votes.

The lawsuit was filed Friday, seemingly timed to coincide with Obama’s visit to the Culinary’s union hall, where he accepted the endorsement. On its face, the lawsuit helps the Clinton campaign by suggesting the caucus process is inherently unfair and distracting voters from Obama’s endorsement and his intense focus on Nevada.

The plaintiffs have ties, albeit indirect, to the Clinton campaign. Dan Hart, chief political consultant to the state teachers union, has run Reid’s campaigns in the past and is currently an unpaid adviser to him. Some of the activists were active backers of state Sen. Dina Titus’ failed 2006 bid for governor. Titus, a Democratic national committeewoman, has endorsed Clinton. She did not return a call seeking comment.

As The New York Times reported Saturday, the teachers union’s deputy executive director, Debbie Cahill, was a founding member of Clinton’s Nevada Women’s Leadership Council.

Those ties and the timing of the suit, coming months after the caucus plan was approved by the Democratic National Committee but days after the endorsement threatened to boomerang on the New York senator.

Earlier in the week Clinton had sought to divide Culinary membership by campaigning in a neighborhood rich with the union’s members, and on Saturday, at an event in Las Vegas, appealed to Hispanics, who make up 40 percent of the Culinary’s membership.

...

Joan thanks for the heads up - I was watching Real Time repeat, so now I have to flip back and forth :)

Sunday afternoon finger exercises

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 01/13/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Joan,

Why bother?  Obama will simply say over and over again what the people want to hear..thats all......its an old Reagan trick.............

Hi folks.  That Obama has a 100% rating from NARAL is good enough for me as far as his positions in these matters. 

In general, though, I have a concern about him and triangulating.  Reaching out to those with agenda-driven evangelicals DOES NOT BENEFIT our country.  Didn't like it when Gov. Dean talked about reaching out to evangelicals, don't like it when Obama does it.

 It makes no sense to pretend that we have any "common ground" with these folks.  We don't.  They will not be satisfied until Roe is overturned.  They insist on dragging their Xtian values into politics.

Politicians in this country should NOT be required to discuss their "faith".  Matter of fact, they should be required to refrain from it.  

Some evangelicals drive their agendas with a smile, some with vitriol but it's the same agenda and it's bad, bad, bad for the country. 

“This is an attempt to wholesale disenfranchise people who are largely women, largely people of color,"



Hmmmmm...I thought that Billary supported low income blue collar and working class women workers in NH (under $50K annual gross income/high school diploma/scant post-secondary educational attainment demographic)???

S.C. women are mucho poorer than those in NV (esp. women of color--15% below poverty).

Oopsie.

Prepare for race & gender backlash in S.C., Billary!

Mike wrote "Obama will simply say over and over again what the people want to hear..thats all......"

You could say that about Bobby Kennedy, too, but it was still exciting to hear it.  That's the only reason I watch.

"153. rdorgan"

Just two brief sentences (45 word count average) and a link, pls.

Copyright violation. Thanks.

cC wrote "Didn't like it when Gov. Dean talked about reaching out to evangelicals, don't like it when Obama does it."

This ignores the fact that many Christians, including traditional Irish, Italian, French, Polish and Hispanic Catholics, were or are lapsed or wavering Democrats.

sorry, s/b reaching out to those agenda-driven evangelicals.  Remove the "with"

I'm furious at Granholm and Stabenaw for dissing Barack and John Edwards because they chose to leave their names off the primary ballot here in Michigan.

It was Granholm and the rest of the Michigan Dems who chose to more the primary up against the National party's wishes resulting in the National party now refusing to recognize our delegates. That is why Barack and John Edwards do not have their names on our ballot; they are complying with the Nat'l. party's wishes.

But now, since Granholm and Stabenaw are Hillary supporters, they are telling everyone here that Barack and John Edwards snubbed Michigan but they are failing to give the reason why they "snubbed" us.

When Dems play these childish games, they lower themselves down to rethugness! 

160.  to more = to move

Tom Bearse
Sun, 01/13/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thast OK Tom, because I have stopped reading your posts as well.  Looking at our pathetic political situation today, from BOTH parties.........in my studying and observing of the way we select leaders and the professional politicians ou there that mainly are to blame, i submit that I rejoice in non involvement.......................

I am proud to say, in the name of this countries forefathers and the vision they had..........these canddates just plain....................suck.

Those are different from evangelicals, Tom.  That particular subset is almost solely politically motivated by an agenda that defies our Constitution.

Lapsed Caths, etc.....different story.  Apples/oranges. 

155.

"Obama will simply say over and over again what the people want to hear"

Mike~ And the rest of the candidates won't!?!

"157. *** cChalfonte***"

It's more than Roe...it's already being overturned in all 50 states.

By de-funding; and by tweaking verbiage (which quite a few on this thread just don't seem to "get."). What's missing, added, or stricken out of marked up legislation matters.

Duh.

Pls.--don't any of you who don't "get it" *ever* run for political office?! Enroll in a 10th grade civics refresher class, vs. incessantly "emoting."

Know what's happening in your state (upthread link).

I'm no Obama supporter, but I most certainly DO understand process & legislative issues.

Scary.

156.  You got that wrong.  Blue collar women SUPPORTED Hillary in NH.  Guess maybe they made a mistake thinking that because she's got a philandering husband she'd be on their side.

Karen, exactly.  They're all going to try to "resonate" with us and of course, they'll all be talking about hope for a better America.

"Hopelessness is the primary tenet of my campaign".....that'll get you votes, lol!! 

Not to change the subject, but..........

http://blogforamerica.com/view/23527 

Tim Reid in Washington

Video and comment: Clinton gaffe

A race row has erupted between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, over a comment that the former First Lady made about Martin Luther King.

In South Carolina, scene of a key showdown on January 26, where half the Democratic electorate are African Americans, black radio hosts have expressed outrage over Mrs Clinton’s remark. Now one of the state’s most influential black congressmen is hinting that he might endorse Mr Obama.

He said he was angered by what he claims were dismissive comments about Martin Luther King by Mrs Clinton.

...

I'd like a ruling from the Chair;-)

cC wrote "Lapsed Caths, etc.....different story.  Apples/oranges."

They're Christians who are or should be Democrats.  I'm not conscious of the manner that Obama has singled out evangelical Christians for conciliatory overtures.

Judy mentioned something similar when she said that, unique among the Democratic candidates, Obama made faith a separate issue.  To me, however, was simply an alternative description of what has become an overture to Christian voters by many Demcratic office seekers, for reasons that appear in a recent article from Politico to which I cited in response.  Here's an excerpt:

"Obama is plowing turf his party tiptoed or blundered through in 2004, allowing President Bush to capture, by a wide margin, the votes cast by churchgoing voters.

"That loss to Bush became a wakeup call to all Democrats, and every one of them is talking more openly this cycle about their faith. Clinton, who has said she prays daily, has sought to organize strong support in her church, United Methodist. John Edwards, also a Methodist, has spoken about how faith helped him endure after his son’s death. For the first time, all of the leading Democratic candidates have senior religious outreach advisers.

"A Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life study conducted last year showed Democrats making some headway. For instance, 38 percent of weekly attending non-Latino Catholics voted for John F. Kerry in 2004, but 52 percent now say they would “like to vote” for a Democrat.

"Obama’s campaign is unique among Democrats in that it has adopted faith as an organizing tool, a tactic mastered by the Bush-Cheney campaigns in 2000 and 2004."

Mike wrote "Thast OK Tom, because I have stopped reading your posts as well."

This comes as a terrible blow.  I look forward with interest to all of yours. 

Hey, wait a minute.  How are you commenting in reaction to my posts if you've stopped reading them?

Californians for Hillary Office Opening Celebration in Fresno
When: Tuesday, January 15th at 5:30 p.m.
Where: 2125 East Amador Street, Fresno, CA

"It's more than Roe...it's already being overturned in all 50 states.

By de-funding; and by tweaking verbiage (which quite a few on this thread just don't seem to "get."). What's missing, added, or stricken out of marked up legislation matters."

Mainefem, I can assure you that I know this.  I used "overturn of Roe" as a catch-all phrase for the evangelical movement's thinly veiled agenda to drive women back to the 50's, i.e., no career, housewives.  They are very clear that they see the 50's very nostalgically, as the ideal moment in America.  I've heard them rant about women "wasting their best reproductive years (their 20's) in pursuit of education and career" and further claim that THIS is the demise of our culture.

I am an evidence-based thinker and strive to post factually here.  You can certainly accuse me of being less than congenial at times here (during heated debate) but posting sans facts?  Nope....not me.  

Frankly, it saddens me to see this blog becoming more and more of a fact-free zone.  Not that there aren't some very worthy folks here who their homework before posting but more and more those voices are being drowned out by the incessant, shrill, factless posters.

I don't mind if Dems reach out to American evangelical Christians, but I do not accept a dominant moral position for that group of citizen in our society.

The wake of Mike Huckabee's win in the Iowa caucuses had a whiff of 2004 about it, as the self-anointed "values voters" declared victory -- and it was more about their own relevance than about the candidate himself.

The votes had barely been counted, and already, just like in 2004, "values voters" were being declared the soul of the heartland. But as noted at the Faith in Public Life blog, only Republican voters were asked about how their faith played a role in their vote. Neither the CNN nor the NBC exit polls asked Democratic caucus-goers whether they were "born again or evangelical," even though Barack Obama has spent considerable time talking about his faith on the campaign trail. And the religious right political leadership wasted no time on picking up the false narrative about their monopoly on righteousness.

When I testified last spring @the capitol, they had to hire additional security in the hearing room, for a bill which would allow low income women who received MaineCare (Medicaid monies) abortions.

We wanted $284K of state monies added to the line-item budget (state workers and legislators have it in their insurance coverage).

It was packed w/nasty nutjobs 9mostly men, but women crackpots, too--ME "right to lifers"). I left that night after testifying; and it was still packed; and was concerned about making it to my car in one piece, too.

If you left the hearing room, you had to wait in line (alongside security guards) to enter again.

Who was there?

This moron. You cannot reason w/these control freaks--doesn't work that way (they're brainwashed, and "science" along w/equity means nothing). Why any woman would tithe a penny to the misogynistic Catholic church is beyond me.

http://tinyurl.com/292vf8

Bishop Richard Malone (you'd think his tithing would be off w/all the perpers/litigation), ME Catholic Charities (who receive $12M per yr. in state contracts, mind you); and the flamin' Baptists and fundies.

It was a f^ckin' picnic listening to all that patriarchal shit in the same room for hours on end, I tell 'ya.

The war on women's bodies rages on.

Guess where they were yesterday?

Augusta. 35th anniversary of Roe vigil. Have all the vigils you want, but don't fuck w/the laws.

What's left of 'em.

Yup. Keep 'yer effin' "religion" out of my uterus, already.

Catholics included, for sure.

"Not one inch," indeedy.

http://news.mainetoday.com/updates/02059...

Even though they had thumbed their noses at Huckabee for months, the lure of claiming credit for his victory proved difficult to resist. James Dobson proclaimed that the media had been "dead wrong" about the evangelical crack-up and crowed that these voters -- his own constituents, presumably, who voted for Huckabee even without his coveted imprimatur -- brought Huckabee to victory. Tom Minnery, Focus on the Family's senior vice president for government and public policy, gushed on a caucus night webcast about Huckabee's "dazzling ability to elucidate those issues that resonate with evangelicals." On the same program, Family Research Council's Tony Perkins compared Thursday night to 2004, insisting that "Iowa is reflective of the core values of America" and adding that "the winners tonight are the values voters."

Californians for Hillary Office Opening Celebration in Fresno

.>Are you attending, Susan?

Although Huckabee wasn't about to pull off any miracles in New Hampshire, he did try to rally a crowd of 350 to enlist in "God's army" to be "soldiers for Christ" at The Crossing church in Windham Sunday, according to The Washington Post.

I caught up with an employee of The Crossing, Rebecca Schmitz, on primary day. Schmitz said the church is a 150-member, nondenominational "plant" of the organization YouthStorm. (In church parlance, a "plant" is a church that is launched by a sister organization.) The church had invited Huckabee to Sunday's event, said Schmitz, but it was not a campaign stop; instead, she said, it was "all about Jesus."

Schmitz said that Huckabee had spoken a few months ago at YouthStorm's "Prayer Furnace," which she described as a "house of prayer." (YouthStorm's Web site a href="http://www.youthstorm.org/furnace.htm">describes it as "a 24/7 prayer initiative being developed to fuel our aggressive mission endeavor and societal transformation. Kingdom-minded congregations and lovers of Jesus are joining together to stoke the eternal flame of devotion through prayer, fasting, and worship.") The purpose of that event was for Huckabee to "introduce himself," and there was a meet and greet afterwards. "Some of us are hopeful for him," said Schmitz, referring to New Hampshire evangelicals' assessment of his prospects there.

Last one on this and sorry for blog-hoggin'....

According to YouthStorm's Web site, the organization views itself as "on the verge of being history makers!" as it pursues "the greatest revival yet." To wit:

Historically, Satan has tried to extinguish God's plan for a generation that is destined to manifest the glory of God. America has seen this young generation attacked with everything from abortion to drugs, and now the American church is seeing her first martyrs, and they are the youth!! Now is the time to spend our lives for the kingdom.

YouthStorm has been established to seize this divine opportunity and facilitate a united front.

"Not one inch," indeedy.
>

"Just a little"

kidding, if you get it.

I'm with you, mainefem.

There's a dirth of issues to respond to, but the one I believe is in first or second on the list is Impeaching Cheney.... A positive turn in the effort is that McGovern and Nader have endorsed Wexlers effort to support Hr 699, his take on Kucinich's Hr333. Also, the Fl. ACLU has gotten behind it.

Signatures on the petition were nearing the 200,000 mark. They have now come almost to a stop.

We need to keep this issue going. Please don't let Bush and his willing collaborators beat us yet again !!!!!!!

See the article at DU for ways to help.

There is just so much hypocrisy here.

It seems like hypocrisy to me when one day someone belittles Edwards as "Mr. Photogenic" and on the next sells him as the greatest thing since FDR. 

"blog-hoggin' "

 >I think that is a chronic behavior, when it is on display, cC.

"Obama will simply say over and over again what the people want to hear"

Mike~ And the rest of the candidates won't!?!

In most cases, the first thing one has to do in order to support a particular candidate is gouge out one eye so as to be blind in it.

I like Obama, but I'm personally sad about how he's handling this, using this - especially during his speech today at the church...:

South Carolina’s largest newspaper reported Saturday: “Sharp criticism of Barack Obama and other comments about Martin Luther King Jr. — all from people associated with Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign — have generated resentment among some black S.C. voters.”

What she said:

"168.Monica Smith"

That's what I mean, Monica. She's a walkin' contradiction (and her stances on welfare deform--see single unmarried women fmi, absence of living wage legislation, watching DV & rape funding go down the crapper--and now to disenfranchise NV blue and working collar women strip workers is beyond the pale).

NV teachers earn a helluva lot more than do the others per yr. (plus bennies & retirement).

There are few women in this country who aren't one divorce away from poverty (only those who're highly credentialized/no kids have a fighting chance).

I need to see something stronger than women who've experienced sexual infidelity; and someone wanting their freakin' shirt ironed as an excuse.

Iron their own damned shirt! Throw his butt out the door (esp. those who can "afford" to do so...which includes Billary.

A bunch of doormat women in this country...sickening.

Welfare deform is the new slavery, BTW--thanks to Big Dog.

Parenting is no longer a "countable work activity," marriage promotion funding is embedded into it; as are "faith-based initiatives" $$$$$.

And no federal block grant monies for federally funded abortions...no allowances (see HR4) for post-secondary education attainment. Very few states will fund abortions w/their own monies, folks.

We only wanted a piddly $284K for an equitable and legal medical procedure. It was downright dangerous to be in the capitol that day/night.

That's with a Democratic majority & Gov. (useless shits) in the statehouse.

...yet another reason why I'm unenrolled (as are 10K others since '04).

They killed it in committee.

LD 1309 (SP 457)
"An Act To Provide Equity in Funding for Women's Health Services"

http://tinyurl.com/3d39b5

Nasty people.

Cut misogynistic religion any slack?

NEVER.

Workfare instead...being forced to farm out one's kids into unsafe environments, for shit wages, and it's dangerous for all concerned.

I'd sit at home before I'd vote for a Clinton.

Sitka
Sun, 01/13/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thatsa fair shot..........Ill take it..........Obama speeches are too rosy........sounds pretty, but again its escapism...and yes the others do to.......they are politicians...........i dont expect anything less.

I, for one , am not stupid enough to buy this uniting the country thing...........childsih, especially from the likes of these 3............forget the republicans.............they are the lowest of lows..........

I would respect more of someone like Obama spoke the truth..........put the rose colured glasses away........sure, we canall pull together, but in our own way........there will always be whites not wanting to live with blacks and vice versa.............right on down the line.....I see no evidence of a uniter from any poitician.........I am not stupid.

O.K.....now Barack is comparing himself to "Josua".   ...taking over from Moses.  ...and Joshua said Lord, I'm not as strong as Moses......etc....." and God said - I will be with you.  So - like Joshua.....

Confusing.

I like Obama, but I'm personally sad about how he's handling this, using this - especially during his speech today at the church...:

South Carolina’s largest newspaper reported Saturday: “Sharp criticism of Barack Obama and other comments about Martin Luther King Jr. — all from people associated with Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign — have generated resentment among some black S.C. voters.”

To be sad, you should cite what Obama has said about Clinton's comments, not what unaligned black people in SC are saying about them.

What has Obama -- or his campaign -- actually said about her remarks that many seem to find offensive?

How are you commenting in reaction to my posts if you've stopped reading them?  

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well Tom.........I actualy thought it was one of sitkas.........and for this, well occasionally when I need a laugh........Ill glance at yours too...................

O.K.....now Barack is comparing himself to "Josua".

Really???

Now there's a quote I'd to see in full -- and a link to it, please.

Thanks. 

As for Hillary divorcing Bill for his infidelity,

I say,

let it be a private matter in the same fashion as abortion is a private matter.

"Don't confront Obama supporters with facts. They get angry, mean, offensive,"

Linda, I appreciate you questioning the Obama "present" vote in IL senate and I learned something I didn't know about him before. I also appreciate mainefem's link to explaining why he did this.

I personally look for facts before supporting someone and while I don't always agree with people I don't think I get offensive with them.

Personally it is a lot more fun at the Obama blog but I still come here to see a more diverse view and comments.

44.

Phil Specht
Sun, 01/13/08

Every vote counts.

My Father used that argument on my Mother. As a young person I told her and him every votes counts and that there is no such thing.


My Father also couldn't figure out why I wanted to attend college either. He told me, "all you'll do is get married away". So much for the 1950's, 60's and 70's. He also told me that I "could only know God through a man". My Father didn't always know best but I loved him beyond his limitations. He was a good union man and a loyal Democrat. He was also very honest. He suffered a lot and became almost child like before he passed this plain. Mother was his always by his side.

The "evangelical movement" is comprised of many xtian sects, Protestants and Catholics.  Their common goal is described in Post # 184 in bold type, last paragraph.

"Lapsed Catholics" would generally describe folks like me-brought up in the faith but no longer participants.  We are NOT evangelicals.  Gov. Dean, at one time and recently, Obama, spoke of "finding the common ground with this specific group.  No point in trying to work with them unless you favor a theocratically-based government and society.  Period. 

>Paine, I'm not really here enough to blog hog "chronically";)

A 24-7 presence, even if your posts are short is chronic blog-hoggin', imo.

ymmv. 

199.  AGREED!

Thatsa fair shot..........Ill take it..........Obama speeches are too rosy........sounds pretty, but again its escapism...and yes the others do to.......they are politicians...........i dont expect anything less

What's you're point -- they all do it, but Obama too?

I, for one , am not stupid enough to buy this uniting the country thing...........childsih

I don't buy anything any of them say at face value. Their records come closest to telling what they'll do. 

I would respect more of someone like Obama spoke the truth.....

You can't accuse him of rosey vagueness and of lying at the same time. Which is it? 

I see no evidence of a uniter from any poitician.........I am not stupid.

Me neither.

Confusing

?

From what you posted, Sam Ross, I am not led into confusion.  It resonates.  I feel his message (albeit through you),  thanks.

Sitka,

Sam is referring to Obama's REFERENCE this morning to a speech he made in March of last year

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/03/04/se...

Mother was his always by his side. s/b Mother was always by his side.

Sen. Beth Edmonds (Pres. of the ME Senate) couldn't get her own party to budge on that abortion funding. Freakin' $284K.

Beth terms out; and may run for Gov. in 2010. Can't wait to get rid of Baldacci, that's for sure. She has my support, if she opts for a run.

I spoke w/her in the elevator (fuming--it's one of the few areas of privacy in the statehouse)--we had every hardcore feminist activist in the state there at that damned hearing...I can't articulate the tension and sense of danger in that room.

The vitriolic hatred of feminists is beyond intense (even from control freak "right to life" women in room); and calling in additional security for a woman's healthcare entitlement shows 'ya how dangerous those nutjobs are.

They were claiming that Planned Parenthood clinics in ME were "forcing" women to have abortions against their will (I'm serious); that women weren't told of alternative (adoption, which is where Catholic Charities Maine makes mucho $$$$, BTW)...blah, blah.

That abortions cause "mental disturbances" later in life...it went on into eternity.

With no factual scientific data to back it all up--we had medical students (in white coats!) from Univ. of New England testifying--abuot 25 of them cut class for no credit to testify, re: factual data purposes.

All for a piddly $284K startup state monies.

Anyone who perceives "evangelicals" can be "reasoned with" needs to take a massive dose of Clozaril.

They're control freaks, plain and simple.

Nada.

And, yes--that includes Bishop Richard Malone (f^cktard)--one nasty bastard.

He profits off the backs of poor women, is what's that's all about ($12M per yr. in "programming services").

{{{wink, wink}}}

It's no wonder that ME's Franco-American women have always been battered (not as much as in past generations, but it's still significant).

"Not one inch."

Howard is dead wrong on this one.

There you go - CNN now discussing the Martin Luther King statement.  Obama just on saying...  "I am ‘baffled’ by the Senator’s statement – she saying somehow Lyndon Johnson had more to do with it than Martin Luther King".  

Well, he just lost me.   He knows darn well how she meant it and he's using it to promote votes in the African America community.   If that's the way he has to win - then - maybe he's just 'another politician'.   Hillary on - back at him.

CNN has a guest speaker on - saying - "It doesn't matter WHAT she meant - it's what people are lead to believe she meant.  If she loses in south Carolina and the nomination, THIS will be why."

CNN spokesman saying.....'if you can give Hillary a break...actually what she said was.....

Why do I think that this is going to back fire?

Thanks for the link, Denise.

So in reality,

now "Barack is comparing himself to "Josua".

is misleading since the speech is from March of 2007.

And it also is not what he said, but what somebody else said about him...... 

But I got a letter from a friend of some of yours named Reverend Otis Moss Jr. in Cleveland, and his son, Otis Moss III is the Pastor at my church and I must send greetings from Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. but I got a letter giving me encouragement and saying how proud he was that I had announced and encouraging me to stay true to my ideals and my values and not to be fearful.

And he said, if there's some folks out there who are questioning whether or not you should run, just tell them to look at the story of Joshua because you're part of the Joshua generation.

Sam Ross should be ashamed for posting such disinformative trash talk.

Just for the record, it's not possible to either lie or tell the truth about the future.  Candidates for an office they haven't held before are both advantaged and disadvantaged by that fact.

Unless you assume that people do not learn from their experience or their mistakes, past behavior is not a reliable predictor of future behavior.  Selecting anyone for anything is a crap shoot.  True even in professional sports.

Of course, if you don't know what you want someone to do, it's not likely to get done, is it? Industries get their way because they know what they want.  Environmentalists, for the most part don't, because they're only clear about what they're against. 

Evangelicals:

This is not a primarily religious movement, despite all outward appearances, and it is not benign love-thy-neighbor stuff. It is overtly political, with a laser focus on spiritual battle with satanic forces by combating the evils of secularism, abortion, and sexuality of any kind, except within heterosexual marriage.

(YouthStorm has reprinted a paper written by one of its directors condemning dating because God commands monogamy.)

Mike Huckabee is the first major presidential candidate to so openly embrace this sort of militaristic evangelism -- more evidence of his unabashed coalition-building with even the most controversial and extreme foot soldiers of the evangelical right.

(I disagree with that last para.  Dubya embraced them and pretty openly, actually) 

Off to Whole Foods:)

Ciao for now.

Why do I think that this is going to back fire?

Because you're a Hillaroid? I have no what the fallout of Hillary's and Bill's remarks will be two weeks from now, because I can't assume to know what others will think about them.

The laws are different now but when I was young we were only allowed to vote in a government building and election day was a holiday so just about everybody had the day off. Our local rural polling place(a public county school building)was always busy and just about everybody had the time to go vote so they did.

If Barack is Joshua, I hope he has a couple of spies inside the Repugnant Jericho Party.

CALIFORNIA IS VOTING!!!  calif voters, check your registration at http://votepoke.org.  registration is open until january 22.

hillary sent out her campaign literature after thanksgiving.  where are the progressives?  we want all candidates to contest california.

182.

Imn2Paine
Sun, 01/13/08


NEVER

Haha, I gathered, Susan.

http://hypem.com/track/463980      Talking Heads - Found A Job

some thoughts on the historical precedents for societal change.......

*from someone who knew.......the late rep shirley chisolm, an african-american woman who ran for potus, was not hesitant in pointing to gender, not race, as the higher barrier.

*the breakthroughs for societal change have been by race, followed by gender--eg, the vote, civil rights, the military, the exclusive white-male professions [astronauts, diplomats, firefighters, police officers, etc]

*it'll be interesting to see how the clintons' hubris plays against historical precedents. 

Sitka
Sun, 01/13/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your evidence wher I have called Obama a liar please.............I have merly stated several times over he is eloquently telling the people what they want to hear..............not lying, but not be truthful either.................you can hide the truth, without being a liar.............

That's the problem w/caucuses...they disenfranchise large swaths of voters, Susan (primarily women and working/blue class voters).

It's a state by state issue, and is primarily all about states being too cheap to fund them (situation here).

I hate 'em.

Re: Hillary being trusted to be Commander in Chief (see Monica's post above).

There's NO WAY I'd trust any woman who has zero judgment, via tolerating a womanizer/sexual harasser for decades.

Nope.

She's enmeshed/a triangulator, and I expect more from a self-professed higly educated Second Waver Wellesley feminist (she's a joke).

Nor will I vote for any Dem. candidate (regardless of who they are) who spews this religious sh^t.

I've never voted for Mike Michaud for that reason (and have taken tons of flack for refusing to do so). Labeled as a "single issue" voter.

Bullshit.

Women who cannot control their autonomy and reproductive labor throughout the lifespan trajectory are never fully human citizens.

Enough, already w/the superstitious crap being embedded into funding and legislation.

I'll stay at home instead before I'll "settle."

Keep patriarchal misogynistic organized religion where it belongs...in the private sphere only.

If any of you who are Catholics are "offended," that's tough cookies.

Bishop Richard Malone is an arshole--he never stops (which includes being incessantly sued for his complicity, re: priests as pedophiles, BTW). How he continues to swindle money out of parishioners is beyond belief (there's no "hell," BTW--nobody will burn to a crisp).

Sickening.

OUT of a woman's uterus. At all costs.

It's impossible to "reason" w/those folks.

Doesn't work. Very nasty people. Been there/done it. Lucky they didn't smack me, or slash my car's tires.

"Not one inch."

I'm no member of the Howard Dean cult, BTW.

Nor am I a feminist sellout.

He's dead wrong on this colluding and pandering w/the evangelicals sh^t.

(I get the sick pun upthread, Paine)

Come to think of it--thanks to feminists, men get laid more often when women have access to safe affordable forms of b/c.

"Win-win," so to speak!

Sweet!  The Giant retie the the Cowboys with 7sec in the half.

Hoping for Giants v. Packers at Lambeau Field.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5iSRw9yrouy71ChbLmlHcwMbpeiMQ       Beer vendor Hale has served up suds, laughs for 45 years at Lambeau

Art Kumbalek


A Buck Two-Eighty and Change
I'm Art Kumbalek and man oh manischewitz what a world, ain'a? Listen, I got to tell you that I'm getting a tad nervous, lo, these days, when it comes to the presidential compartment of The Art Kumbalek Democracy Express 2008 For Any and All Political Office—Whatever You Got Needs Filling I'll Fill It 'Cause That's The Kind Of Guy I Am—Campaign, I kid you not.

http://www.shepherd-express.com/1sectionbody.lasso?-token.folder=2008-01-10&-token.section=12318.112112&-token.esecsource=12318.112112&-token.menuseclooptracking=11&-token.menuitemlooptracking=11

Sitka ---  I listened to him speak and that's what he said.....he mentioned, like a sermon "sermon'....... he had given before........   And it was much clearer what 'he meant' than what he insists Hillary meant.  And now below.  Maybe you're as disappointed as I am that the man with the great philosphy and oratory and 'hope'....has turned into a politician. 

Edwards Criticizes Clinton Comments on MLK...

This is why it will backfire.  Americans still like 'fair play' and they don't like to be 'told how to think' by twisting words...like New Hampshire.

Crap--four email spams yesterday afternoon and evening (I thought I got that straight w/the local activist--NO MORE)!

Now they're leaving messages on my voicemail.

ENOUGH.

I'm all for changing the Do Not Call Registry laws, also--I don't appreciate being called by political operatives/campaigns/nonprofits.

It's an invasion of privacy. If it continues, I'll change my number again.

...or morph myself into a liar/refuse to give my phone number to any "activist orgs" (or to transpose the numbers, & direct them to the local tanning salon).

I heard it too, Sam, and I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of his statement. I heard the speech in March, too.

But the link I posted clears up any misinterpretation you posted here.

Clinton and her camp are so divisive and ruthless. Bring out the worst in folks is no way to heal or lead this country, period. Using racisim and gender bashing is so appalling. Real trashy stuff in any play book.

It looks like Roseanne may be looking for a new gig on FOX. May be she thinks Mrs. Clinton can help her out or may be she knows.

http://www.roseanneworld.com/blog/2008/0...

Roseanne Goes Off On Obama And Oprah http://celebnewsrumors.blogspot.com/2008...

---

Hillary Wins: AP And NBC...

...Go Unity08! (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by TheRealFrank on Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 09:45:51 PM EST

Heh
Seriously, though, good for (especially) the women of NH to extend their collective middle finger to the media, pundits and Common Wisdom.

...full post: http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/1/8/2...

Talking Heads - The Democratic Circus        http://hypem.com/track/457875

http://myoldkyhome.blogspot.com/2008/01/marchin-to-white-house.html

216.

Imn2Paine
Sun, 01/13/08

Seek therapy and stay away from children.

BET founder Bob Johnson criticizes Obama (AP)

Susan wrote, "Seek therapy and stay away from children."

@

Susan Rowe< I don't appreciate your comment, and have no understanding of why you might post it.  But, this id the second time I have inferred so much.

226.

Imn2Paine
Sun, 01/13/08


Clinton's camp is the lowest.

Astrophysics taking off on Superman: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...

http://www.ndnfutbol.org/

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/christian...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIb40xLuB...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/11/politics/main3702777.shtml

Jan. 11, 2008

...

The comments, which ranged from the New York senator appearing to diminish the role of Martin Luther King Jr. in the civil rights movement - an aide later said she misspoke - to Bill Clinton dismissing Sen. Barack Obama’s image in the media as a “fairy tale” - generated outrage on black radio, black blogs and cable television. And now they've drawn the attention of prominent African-American politicians.

...

other black Clinton supporters found themselves wincing at the Clintons’ words, if not questioning their intent.

A Harlem-based consultant to the Clinton campaign, Bill Lynch, called the former president’s comments “a mistake,” and said his own phone had been ringing with friends around the country voicing their concern.

“I’ve been concerned about some of those comments - and that there might be a backlash,” he said.

Illinois State Senate President Emil Jones, a prominent Obama supporter, echoed those sentiments.

"It’s very unfortunate that the president would make a statement like that," he said of Bill Clinton's criticism of Obama's experience, adding that the African-American community had "saved his presidency" after the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

"They owe the African-American community - not the reverse," he said. "Maybe Hillary and Bill should get behind Sen. Barack Obama."

...

when a Clinton supporter, New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, said - though not directly in connection to Obama - that politicians can’t “shuck and jive” in early primary states, it only added fuel to the fire.

Thursday, a key player in black South Carolina politics, Rep. Jim Clyburn, told The New York Times he’d consider endorsing Obama in response to what he considered a lack of respect in the Clinton campaign’s approach to Obama.

...

I could care less for links, thanks.

NV caucus heats up
by desmoulins, Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 03:51:53 AM EST

The lawsuit filed late yesterday by officers of the Clark County Democratic central committee against the Nevada State Democratic Party has been the talk of the blogs and the press all day as everyone tries to parse the politics of it. I know a bit about this that I'll try to explain here. Its a sordid tale, as I see it that does not reflect well on the state, the Democratic party, or the Clinton campaign.

Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign, a day after a conference call in which casino executives supporting her denounced Obama in the press for opposing gaming in the Illinois state legislature, her campaign dropped a pretty hard-hitting contrast mail piece against Obama.

The good news is that there was also a lot of actual substance being discussed on doorsteps, at least based on my experience today canvassing for Edwards.

...full post: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/1/13/3515...

Interesting discussion. Are people here tonight all dropping acid?

We seem to have a lot of flip-floppers on this blog.

Misinterpret something said, and, flip-flop, flip-flop. That's plain tiring. to read through.

I'm going to watch a nice movie though I wish we had a copy of Sicko to playback. Gotta get one of those.

This from the AP on the Civil Rights/Martin Luther KIng/Lyndon Johnson flap:

Clinton, Obama Clash Over Race Issue

 Email this Story

Jan 13, 6:36 PM (ET)

By BETH FOUHY (AP) In this photograph provided by "Meet the Press," Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary...
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NEW YORK (AP) - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton suggested Sunday that Barack Obama's campaign had injected racial tension into the presidential contest, saying he had distorted for political gain her comments about Martin Luther King's role in the civil rights movement.

"This is an unfortunate story line the Obama campaign has pushed very successfully," the former first lady said in a spirited appearance on NBC's "Meet the Press.""I don't think this campaign is about gender, and I sure hope it's not about race."

Clinton taped the show before appearances in South Carolina, whose Jan. 26 primary will be the first to include a significant representation of black voters. Blacks were 50 percent of primary voters in the state in 2004 and the number is expected to swell this time.

Both New York Sen. Clinton and her husband, the former president, have engaged in damage control this week after black leaders criticized their comments shortly before the New Hampshire primary last Tuesday.

(AP) In this photograph provided by "Meet the Press," Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary...
Full ImageThe senator was quoted as saying King's dream of racial equality was realized only when President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, while Bill Clinton said Illinois Sen. Obama was telling a "fairy tale" about his opposition to the Iraq war.

Former President Clinton has since appeared on several black radio programs to say he was referring to Obama's record on the Iraq war, not on his effort to become the nation's first black president.

As evidence the Obama campaign had pushed the story, Clinton advisers pointed to a memo written by an Obama staffer compiling examples of comments by Clinton and her surrogates that could be construed as racially insensitive. The memo later surfaced on a handful of political Web sites.

Obama later called Clinton's accusations "ludicrous," and said he found Clinton's comments about King to be ill-advised and unfortunate.

"If Senator Clinton wants to be distracted by the sorts of political point-scoring that was evident today then that is going to be her prerogative," Obama said.

Another rival, John Edwards, added his voice to the chorus of criticism of Clinton's comments about King.

"I must say I was troubled recently to see a suggestion that real change that came not through the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King but through a Washington politician. I fundamentally disagree with that," Edwards told more than 200 people gathered at a predominantly black Baptist church in Sumter, S.C.

Later Sunday, the Clinton campaign scrambled to explain comments by one of its top black supporters, BET founder Bob Johnson, that seemed to raise the issue of Obama's admitted teenage drug use.

"I am frankly insulted the Obama campaign would imply that we are so stupid that we would think Hillary and Bill Clinton, who have been deeply and emotionally involved in black issues - when Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood; I won't say what he was doing, but he said it in his book - when they have been involved," Johnson said at an event with Clinton in Columbia, S.C.

In his memoir, "Dreams from My Father," Obama described using marijuana and occasionally sampling cocaine as a youth.

The Clinton campaign later released a statement in which Johnson said his comments referred to Obama's years as a community organizer in Chicago.

During the televised interview, Hillary Clinton praised King as one of the people she "admired most in the world," and suggested his record of activism stood in stark contrast to Obama's.

"Dr. King didn't just give speeches. He marched, he organized, he protested, he was gassed, he was beaten, he was jailed," she said, noting King had campaigned for Johnson because he recognized the need to elect a president who could enact civil rights into law.

While Clinton praised Obama's eloquence, she also stepped up her contention that his record did not match his rhetoric.

She noted that while he had spoken out eloquently against the war in 2002 before coming to the Senate, he voted repeatedly to fund the war once in office.

"If you are part of American political history, you know that speeches are essential to frame an issue, to inspire, and lift up," Clinton said. "But when the cameras are gone and when the lights are out, what happens next?"

Obama scoffed at her suggestion of an inconsistent record on the war. Campaigning in Las Vegas, he said he voted for war funding out of an obligation to support the troops, and noted other prominent Democrats, Sens. Edward M. Kennedy and Barbara Boxer, who voted the same way.

"Once we had our troops in, two years into a war, it was important that we do the best job of it," Obama said before speaking at a Pentecostal church. "They have decided to run a relentlessly negative campaign. I don't think anyone who is paying attention can deny that."

Clinton ended her day in South Carolina by speaking to more than 100 women at an invitation-only event at a Columbia bistro.

"We still have too many women who are not being treated fairly in the work place," she said. "This is not a woman's issue. This is a fairness and quality issue."

---

Associated Press writers Philip Elliott and Seanna Adcox contributed to this report from Columbia, S.C., and AP Writer Kathleen Hennessy contributed from Las Vegas.

No but I just sprayed a Diet Hank's root beer on the kitchen floor. Tom.

We'll see whether or not Rep. John Lewis dumps his endorsement of Billary, too (historically speaking).

I'd assume that his phone is ringing off the hook constantly this weekend.

Re: marital infidelity--MLK was no angel in that dept. w/Coretta.

Intersections of racism and misogyny are juuuuuuuuust beginning to heat up, folks.

Long overdue. Bring it on. It's impossible to separate 'em.

227.  Waaayyy out of line.  You can't post sh*t like that and turn around and accuse others of being "low"".

Moving on. 

 On the BO "present" votes, I'm with the Obamers....it was an unfair mischaracterization.   

On Hillary's comment re. LBJ "getting it done" (civil rights) I believe she is absolutely correct in the context of the matter--running for President and being about "getting it done".

Unfortunately, all sides are slinging mud, in desperation...and my guy, JRE can't get any traction:( 

Hallelujah for the Packers -- they will be hosting the Giants at Lambeau Field. Phew!

I see the Clinton minions continue to attack Obama. Low ball politics.

I should mention I didn't mean here at bfa -- on the internets and news.

Bye guys...

"We'll see whether or not Rep. John Lewis dumps his endorsement of Billary, too (historically speaking)."

I didn't know he had endorsed her.  Don't know what to think about that.  He is one of my most favorite people ever! 

This from Bob Herbert, a clear headed look at some goings-on IMO:

Of Hope and Politics
    By Bob Herbert
    The New York Times

    Saturday 12 January 2008

    We're about to find out how resilient Barack Obama is.

    I was not one of those who thought, during those frantic, giddy, sleepless few days leading up to the New Hampshire primary, that Mr. Obama was on his way to a blowout win.

    When I mentioned my skepticism to reporters at an Obama rally in Derry on Sunday, everyone insisted he was romping to victory. "Double digits," said one reporter.

    This certainty was based on poll results and the size and enthusiasm of the Obama crowds. But poll results have been unreliable for decades when it comes to black candidates and white voters. And I wrote in a column that ran on election day that whenever Senator Obama would ask how many people in his overflow crowds were still undecided, about a third would raise their hands.

    I was not predicting an Obama defeat. I just had a strong sense that the news media, feeding on itself, had lost sight of reality and that the election was bound to be close.

    I could also sense how hard the Clinton camp was working to undermine Senator Obama's main theme, that a campaign based on hope and healing could unify, rather than further polarize, the country.

    So there was the former president chastising the press for the way it was covering the Obama campaign and saying of Mr. Obama's effort: "The whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

    And there was Mrs. Clinton telling the country we don't need "false hopes," and taking cheap shots at, of all people, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

    We'd already seen Clinton surrogates trying to implant the false idea that Mr. Obama might be a Muslim, and perhaps a drug dealer to boot. It struck me that the prediction of so many commentators that Senator Obama was about to run away with the nomination, and bury the Clintons in the process, was the real fairy tale.

    The importance of Senator Obama's effort was getting lost in the craziness. His message of hope and change had captured the Iowa caucuses and excited many thousands in the snowy precincts of New Hampshire.

    The significance of his achievement did not lie in whether he would win the presidency (or any given caucus or primary) but in the fact that he might well be fashioning a positive change in the very character of the nation - in the way we view one another, and in our approach to the political process, and our willingness to climb off the couch and participate in it.

    He was drawing young people into the process and exciting people across party lines.

    The big deal was that Senator Obama, defying every stereotype, was making it easier for people, frustrated by the status quo, to dare to hope and believe in the country again. The early success of his candidacy, whether it would ultimately triumph or not, meant that the system was still open to outsiders and progressives and the young. Democracy American-style was still vital and dynamic and open to change. That was no small thing.

    But the uncontrolled hype, with its predictions of a blowout in New Hampshire that could all but seal the nomination and shatter the Clinton dynasty, meant that even a modest victory by Senator Obama - a one- or two- or three-point win - would be characterized as a defeat.

    And there were disturbing signs that Senator Obama himself had bought into the hype. There's a fine line between brash and cocky. You can't embark on a quest as audacious as Mr. Obama's without a certain brashness. But cocky turns people off. And the senator seemed at times to stray across that line.

    Until New Hampshire, his tone had been pitch-perfect, and often magnificent. But you knew instantly that it was a blunder during last Saturday night's debate, in a moment that cried out for a touch of personal grace, to dismiss Senator Clinton as "likable enough."

    And in response to Mr. Clinton's ranting, Mr. Obama told reporters: "I understand he's feeling a little frustrated right now." The senator believed he was winning big, and he wasn't trying to hide it.

    Pride, the nuns told me in grammar school, goeth before a fall. It may not be fair that the Clintons seem to be forgiven every sin while Mr. Obama's margin of error is tiny at best. But it was Jack Kennedy, one of Mr. Obama's important models, who liked to tell us that life is not fair.

    Mr. Obama has one hell of a fight on his hands. Generals from throughout history would tell him not to cede the high ground.

  -------

Sorry about your floor, Denise. 

On a separate topic, a seemingly random discussion sprung up earlier on lapsed Catholics, so I just wondered what it was in reference to.  I had previously brought up the issue of candidates addressing faith in their campaigns with the observation that many present, not lapsed, ethnic Catholics from traditionally Democratic families were "lapsed or wavering Democrats."  Thus the overtures this cycle towards Christians.  I mean, I'm sure there are lapsed Catholics who are Democrats as well, but I suspect that less of them are wavering Democrats.

Many different kinds of people listen to Barack Obama and get a little weak in the knees. Young people are enraptured by him, political independents are attracted to him, African-Americans are proud of him, progressives are inspired by him. But the praise is also coming from one corner one would least expect: conservatives.

David Brooks, house conservative of the New York Times op-ed page, practically wept with joy at Obama's Iowa victory. "You'd have to have a heart of stone not to feel moved by this," he wrote the next day. "Whatever their political affiliations, Americans are going to feel good about the Obama victory … Obama is changing the tone of American liberalism, and maybe American politics, too." Rick Brookheiser of the National Review -- yes, that National Review -- wrote on the night of the caucus, "One of our great national sins is being obliterated, as the years pass, by the virtues of our national system. I don't agree with Obama and I don't particularly like him, but I am proud of this moment."

It was left to culture war general William Bennett to lay the conservative affection for Obama bare. With all the self-awareness and racial sensitivity for which he has become known, Bennett enthused that Obama "never brings race into it. He never plays the race card. Talk about the black community -- he has taught the black community you don't have to act like Jesse Jackson; you don't have to act like Al Sharpton. You can talk about the issues."

This is the heart of the newfound conservative affection for Barack Obama. He "never brings race into it," by which they mean that he declines to make them feel guilty about race -- about their party's current and past history, about the role of white privilege (that most radioactive of ideas, since it implicates even the well-intentioned), or about the persistence of discrimination. It is Bennett's fervent hope that Obama will have "taught the black community" how to behave -- in other words, how to stop making Bill Bennett feel bad. Barack Obama is the conservatives' New Black Friend. Throw an arm around him and smile for the camera, and you can show people how open-minded you are.

It isn't easy to separate self-congratulation from a genuine desire for the country to progress on its long and tortured road to racial reconciliation. But the game is given up when Obama is so pointedly contrasted with Jackson and Sharpton. We've seen a lot of this in recent months, from Joe Biden calling Obama "clean and articulate" to Bill O'Reilly complimenting the patrons of Sylvia's restaurant in Harlem for their table manners. You won't catch Barack Obama yelling, in O'Reilly's words, "M-F-er, I want more iced tea!"

Mainefem, you are so right about this:

" Intersections of racism and misogyny are juuuuuuuuust beginning to heat up, folks.

Long overdue. Bring it on. It's impossible to separate 'em."

Fasten our seatbelts, indeed. 

We are going to see what real football looks like at Lambeau. Four seriously good teams left.

http://halfricanrevolution.blogspot.com/2008/01/clinton-strategy-race-baiting.html

I said this after the NH Primary:

Suffice it to say that this election will be about race from this point on in a way it hasn't before. As anxious as I am about what that conversation is going to sound like, in the end it's for the best.

"It's not a TV crazed race. Frankly you can't buy your way into it," Cuomo said, according to Albany Times Union reporter Rick Karlin. "You can't shuck and jive at a press conference," he added. "All those moves you can make with the press don't work when you're in someone's living room."

It's nice of Mr. Cuomo to lift his face out of a plate of Spaghettios and take off his mirrored shades to comment on the Democratic Primary. Will he be breaking my legs so as to keep me from running off the plantation, or is he going to get Paulie Walnuts to do it?

I wish that Hillary supporters Bob Sheehan, Andrew Cuomo, Bob Kerre and Bill Clinton himself quit their race-baiting comments.  Hillary needs to stop in NOW.

Those Hiullary subordinates are dividing the dems and creating divisions that will take decades to heal.

If this keeps up, I will not be voting for Hillary for president, even if she wins the dem nomination.

Congrats to the NY Football Giants.......get up to Green Bay and give em hell boys.

John Edwards has as good a chance of being President as the NY Giants do of being Super Bowl Champs. Once you are in the Championship game and one of four left standing you are miles ahead of a whole bunch of other teams that have all gone home.

Clinton better worry that all of her negative energy from her team doesn't result in a penalty like Bob Sanders being called for taunting when he put his arms around Nate Keading's shoulder at the end of the first half.

she could end up third again like she did in Iowa

Well, iffin Obama wants the O's, how about n0pe? Ain't g0nna c00perate with them rePublicans? This party has c00perated itself about to *death*!

217. Your evidence wher I have called Obama a liar please......

192. I would respect more of someone like Obama spoke the truth.....

If one isn't speaking the truth, one is lying.  But then, your sentence was garbled so maybe I misunderstood it.

cheeseheadlandia is in play this year,who will Brett endorse?

Well, iffin Obama wants the O's.......

Please tell me that isn't an impersonation of a black stereotype. 

A lot of people would no doubt like to see me leave this blog, and I've just about had it with the some of the negative racial undertones we're seeing creep onto it. 

John Edwards has as good a chance of being President as the NY Giants do of being Super Bowl Champs.

The difference being that the Giants have won two playoff games and Edwards has lost two. 

Doug Williams was my all time favorite QB cause he really wasn't as gifted as some he just would will a victory.

Brady is better than Favre but Brett can will one too.

screw politics after this weekend, let's talk football, but if you must; when those Presidential wannabes reach down in their gut who can will a victory?

Andrew Young also endorsed Billary, folk.

LBJ wasn't as supportive of King as people may perceive--(and RFK as well as JFK were notorious for stonewalling for yrs.).

http://tinyurl.com/2uz4gt

Actually, the "media" portraying images on TV throughout the nation of African Americans being beaten/hosed/fending off German Shepards helped propel things along a bit.

Presidents will do whatever they have to...only when forced to do so (signing the Civil Rights Act *after* King's murder assisted in averting horrific anarchy and mayhem across the land).

African American people do "know" of their collective racist roots, experiences, & centuries of oppression (they don't hang photos of LBJ in their living rooms!); and it's too late to spin it around...the perception is already "out there."

typo - Kerre  s/b - Kerrey

typos - Hillary needs to stop in NOW.     Those Hiullary

s/b - Hillary needs to stop it NOW.     Those Hillary

Phil wrote 'screw politics after this weekend, let's talk football, . . . "

Super.  After that torrid discussion, maybe we can talk about checkers.

Edwards Criticizes Clinton Comments on MLK...

This is why it will backfire.  Americans still like 'fair play' and they don't like to be 'told how to think' by twisting words...like New Hampshire.

Kerrey's remarks were pretty offensive.  Will the Hillary who has "found" herself rid her team of all the jerks?

Just give me a  Working Class Hero        http://hypem.com/track/464060

Super.  After that torrid discussion, maybe we can talk about checkers.

I got a triple jump once. I'll be glad to tell you all about it after the election. 

"I had previously brought up the issue of candidates addressing faith in their campaigns with the observation that many present, not lapsed, ethnic Catholics from traditionally Democratic families were "lapsed or wavering Democrats."  Thus the overtures this cycle towards Christians.  I mean, I'm sure there are lapsed Catholics who are Democrats as well, but I suspect that less of them are wavering Democrats."---

Yes, Tom, I caught that as I re-read your original post later.  My bad.

I believe that Gov. Dean, BO, Hillary, JRE--all Dem candidates who suddenly start talking about "their" faith, etc., are doing so mainly because they understand that our country is sharply divided, in nearly equal halves on where the country should be going.  Gov. Dean, at that time, said that he believed that the "kitchen table" issues would be the common ground and hoped to be able to convince the evangelicals that THOSE issues are what should be focused on in choosing the next president.  Doesn't work with the fundies/evangelicals.

The economy has to be absolutely in the shitt*er for Dems to win. mho..we're there and we'll win based on that.  Seems to me that's the only way we've won the presidency in the last 20+ years.

Edwards would be smart to stay out of it.

puddle, LOL!!!! 

Kerrey's remarks were pretty offensive.  Will the Hillary who has "found" herself rid her team of all the jerks?

Surely not since that's surely why she brought them on board. 

258. Break from bbq-ing. Phil, we have a good friend who won five medals in two Olympics for swimming. He said he didn't have the raw talent other swimmers had but he worked a helluva lot harder. I think hard work can overcome many obstacles.

January 12, 2007

ARMENIAN AMERICANS SET TO PLAY PIVOTAL ROLE IN PRIMARIES
Large Numbers of Voters in Key States: California, New York, Michigan, Massachusetts, Illinois, Connecticut, and New Jersey

January 15th

Michigan primary (60,000 Armenian Americans)

January 19th and 26th

Nevada Caucus (10,000 Armenian Americans)

South Carolina Primary (3,000 Armenian Americans)

January 29th

Florida primary (35,000 Armenian Americans)

February 5th: Super Tuesday
Arizona Primary (15,000 Armenian Americans)

California Primary (600,000 Armenian Americans)

Colorado Caucus (8,000 Armenian Americans)

Connecticut Primary (20,000 Armenian Americans)

Illinois Primary (45,000 Armenian Americans)

Massachusetts Primary (120,000 Armenian Americans)

New Jersey Primary (75,000 Armenian Americans)

New York Primary (100,000 Armenian Americans)

Full article and review of the major candidates: http://www.anca.org/press_releases/press...

Well, iffin Obama wants the O's.......

Please tell me that isn't an impersonation of a black stereotype. 

A lot of people would no doubt like to see me leave this blog, and I've just about had it with the some of the negative racial undertones we're seeing creep onto it. 

+++

Sitka -

I'm not one of them ("A lot of people would no doubt like to see me leave this blog")  - please stay.

This is for Linda in SF,NM.

Who is the *greenest* candidate running.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1...

253.

puddle, LOL!!!! 

+++

Nope, not LOL!!!!

LBJ wasn't as supportive of King as people may perceive

As Senate Majority Leader from Texas, Johnson was with the racists. So I guess there is some hope that Edwards would be a better president than he was a senator. But then, we've been told by Edwardians themselves that hope is just hollow rhetoric and the greatest evil unleashed from Pandora's box.

I think we've been in the race/gender debate for at least a couple of weeks now.  All in all, we're not doing too badly.  I am grateful for the point counter point, calling people on misleading or truncated information that distorts the truth.  Keep it up good folks, we are emblematic of the American people. 

With respect to JFK, RFK, and Lyndon Johnson's support for Civil Rights, there was great reluctance to pass the Civil Rights Act because they knew they would lose the Southern Democrats.  The American people insisted, and it was passed, and sure enough the Democracts saw their Southern counterparts become Republicans.  There's always a cost.

Have been thinking more and more about racism, ethnic rivalry, tribal rivalry.  I'd be willing to bet that it is the reptilian brain, the same part of the brain where fear resonates.  Is there a biology major, physicist, doctor in the audience who could give the correct information?

Also, just listened to Stephen Beal, Colorado poet on his experience with cancer.  Those who have gone through such illnesses might be interested in reading his poetry. He's very good.

Now off to watch The Wire, an amazing program on HBO on the city of Baltimore, Maryland. 

Mitt Romney said, "I saw my father walk with M.L.K.."

Mitt speaks with fork tongue.

strange that Obama gets slammed for talking about HOPE

but Bill Clinton, always reminded us (and I was inspired by the use of his term  HOPE), he came from a place called HOPE:

http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/Hope.html

 Bill Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe III on August 19, 1946, in the small town of Hope, Arkansas.

Yes, stay, Sitka, you are valued highly here by me and others.

Edwards would be smart to stay out of it

It's simple opportunism. He's sees Obama as having the present advantage and wants to knock down Hillary and grab second place. 

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  • The Real Da Vinci Code
  • Unsolved History

Mitt Romney said, "I saw my father walk with M.L.K.."

Yeah....in his dreams. 

mary vb

I think character as it plays out in competitive sports is very much like the fire in the belly that it takes to win at politics.

since all of these candidates have it, then it goes back to raw talent, but then someone elevates their game

and back and forth it goes 

Sitka
Sun, 01/13/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

personal comment sitka.........it is beneath you to constantly refer to Edwards supporters as Edwardians.........that is rather 'Olerish" of you............it was funny at first, but the joke has worn out its stay...................I dont see any edwards supporters here refering to obama supporter as "Obamians"...............

You are a credible poster..........but it is time to bury that one. Thank you.

for god's sake, rd....take some deep breaths.....

Norman Hsu was on Kerrey's "New School's" board of directors, BTW. Big $$$$.

Kerrey's Muslim smearing for the Clinton camp:

http://tinyurl.com/2pkceq

Opportunistic DLC Clintonista hack.

Blast from the past:

http://tinyurl.com/yv76f7

[...]

"He has to give people confidence there isn't a 'Democratic wing' of the Democratic party," Mr. Kerrey said, a reference to a trademark campaign phrase that Dr. Dean used to distinguish himself from moderates during the primaries. "The biggest challenge for Howard is going to be overcoming his own words and his own previous statements."

[....]

Phil Specht
Sun, 01/13/08
___________________________________________________________________________

An interesting analogy......politics and sports...........if you are interested, I DID try my predicting formula onpolitics and applied it to this weekends games..........here were the resluts..........

Seattle/ GB     preidction GB   winner GB

Jacksonville/NE  predictionNE  winner  NE

SD/Indianapolis  prediction SD  winner SD

NYG/Dallas  prediction NYG  winner NYG

Im working on next weeks games.................wont stat drinking until Thursaday

Mike, I too tire of the "Edwardians, Obamians, Hillaroid" references.

personal comment sitka.........it is beneath you to constantly refer to Edwards supporters as Edwardians.........

Hillaroids..... Obamians..... Edwariacs/Edwardians..... Kucinichniks..... Gravellians.....  Bidenites....... Doddingtons....... Richardsonians.......Kerriatrics......Deaniacs

It's all fun. Lighten up.

You are a credible poster..........

You just said upthread you only read my posts for a laugh. If you wish to be a credible poster yourself, try to be more consistent. 

but it is time to bury that one.

I expect in few weeks there won't be much reason to talk about Edwards or refer to his supporters anyway. 

Patriots have the best team, Giants are playing winning football. could win it all

"come together as a national community" - yep, Bill Clinton once said that, strangely enough, sounds very much like what Barack Obama is saying in his run for president:

http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/Hope.html

...

During both Administrations, Bill Clinton has worked to lead our country forward and to ensure that all Americans can make the most of their own lives. This is an age of enormous possibility -- a time when more Americans will be able to live out their dreams than ever before. But it is also a time that poses many challenges. President Clinton believes that to make the most of this exciting era, we must offer opportunity, demand personal responsibility, and come together as a national community.

278.

Pat in Colorado
Sun, 01/13/08

Reply to this
Yes, stay, Sitka, you are valued highly here by me and others.
-------
ditto.

for god's sake, rd....take some deep breaths.....  

+++

yep, I do all the time

I just don't understand some people's humor

......wont stat drinking until Thursaday

That explains some of your posts over the past couple of days. 

Thahnks to those of you who have expressed friendly thoughts to me. I'm pretty thick skinned, but I have my soft spots too.

I doubt Edwards supporters here are going anywhere anytime soon.

Kerrey's remarks were pretty offensive.  Will the Hillary who has "found" herself rid her team of all the jerks?

+++

In other words, the song "Who Let The Dogs Out" comes to mind.

Phil , Edwards (thank God) is not staying out of it.  He graciously has defended Obama by saying Obama's campaign is "no fairy tale". 

If Obama does not get to the dem nomination, for some reason, but yet Edwards is still in the running against H Clinton, my support is strongly behind Edwards.

Folks, as long as I've been blogging here I've seen puddle, from time to time, use a sort of Huck Finn narrative...you know, her "dat's da troot"....things like that--she's a poet, remember?  She's been blogging here longer than I and she's one of the last people here I'd accuse of racism.

chill out.

As Pat in Colorado said, as Mainefem has said this election will raise issues of racism/sexism.  A worthwhile exercise for this country and long overdue.

In the meantime, I'd like to suggest that those of you who just can't resist an opportunity to get up on your hind legs and holler, "I'm holier, deanier, more racially unbiased than thou"....give it a rest with your proclamations. 

I don't believe than any of the long-time bloggers here would not vote for someone based on race or gender....that's a Republican thing. 

I doubt Edwards supporters here are going anywhere anytime soon.

At some point they'll see the writing on the wall -- or be bludgeoned into reality --  and jump to Hillary or Obama. Riding a dead horse is such a bore. Hell, even most Deaniacs deserted (and some even started pushing Kerry on this blog) long before Dean dropped out.

Edwards would be smart to stay out of the spat over the importance of LBJ's "leadership" in passing the Civil Rights Act, was my point, but in general i think he should just run a positive campaign about the nation's future and ignore the fight between the other two. He needs to be standing if either of the others lands a knockout blow.

Folks, as long as I've been blogging here I've seen puddle, from time to time, use a sort of Huck Finn narrative...you know, her "dat's da troot"....things like that--she's a poet, remember?

Thanks for pointing that out. But with racism and sexism alive and well in the campaign, we need to make sure we don't play into here, even inadvertently.

He needs to be standing if either of the others lands a knockout blow. 

He's giving the tottering Hillary a push so he can move into her spot. It was claimed upthread that Obama is a calculating politicain. I said they all are and this is a good example of it.

Edwards stayed in the last time all the way to the convention and says he will this time, I see no reason to doubt him.

(and some even started pushing Kerry on this blog)

Now that I think of it, there were some pushing Edwards too. Anybody want to fess up? 

Well, iffin Obama wants the O's.......

Please tell me that isn't an impersonation of a black stereotype.

A lot of people would no doubt like to see me leave this blog, and I've just about had it with the some of the negative racial undertones we're seeing creep onto it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jayzooz RD, I live in WV. I've been in love with black men, nearly married one, and had I not miscarried, would be the mother of a black child today. Don't get carried away.

♥

The simple math of a three way race, it favors a longer period to resolve.

I like Sitka.  Always have.  Always will.  He keeps us on our toes.

♥ puddle ♥

now if you would have pulled a Hillary and used dOpe, lol

And cC, thanks! ♥s!

Sitka is the blog's jewel. 

Edwards stayed in the last time all the way to the convention and says he will this time, I see no reason to doubt him.

I was talking about Edwardiacs deserting him, not the other way around. But saying he's in until the convention is the same as politicians say they aren't planning to run even though everyone knows they are -- or that they won't accept the VP slot because they plan on winning themselves. Some things politicians say are just boilerplate. If the money dries up, Edwards will bail like the rest. And it probably will if he hasn't won a primary after Feb. 5 -- which seems likely.

Me too.  What I respect about Sitka is that he doesn't personally attack our candidates, their wives/husbands/children.  He sticks to the facts even if he's a bit purist;).

puddle wrote "I've been in love with black men, nearly married one, and had I not miscarried, would be the mother of a black child today."

There are so few of us who can make the same claim.

Sitka....

I love Kucinichniks!!! Especially with the accent on the nich. It sounds warm and friendly.

Sitka is the blog's jewel.

Jewell was  my father's name. From him I learned how to be a unapologetic FDR liberal. From my scottish terrier Sitka I learned how to grab onto an ankle and never let go.

♥ to you, 2, Phil!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WMG34cv0zM

I find it curious that Diebold can making bank teller machines that can't be hacked, but not voting machines.

I also find it curious that I can use my credit card to shop online and never get robbed, but can't vote online just as securely. 

Gotcher back, puddle:)

Me neither.

--------------------------------

Well, I confess of being stupid.

And being stupid as I am I tried to listen and follow  the most logical and rational way of voting as possible. So I voted for kerry.,

But I had enough of going by my brains. It doesn't get me what I want.
And one thing is: I will never ever vote for Hillary.! I know, I'm emotional now.
She is pulling the gender card, the racial card. Totally emotional.

I'm just going to be an American. Vote by my guts!

10:47 pm

Goodnight bloggie -- Sitka has soft spots AWWWWW.

"It was getting awful uncomfortable there for the media to watch a black man wooing white women farmstock in Iowa, instead of a white glossy policy-wonk who has groomed herself all her life for that entitlement. Besides, her husband already owns the mantle as "the first black president." Why have a real African American, when you can have a fake one?"

For a moment there, brother, we were black

10:57 pm

So I voted for kerry.

My ballot only had him and Bush, and I'm not the write-in type.

Since both Gore and Kerry wrote my state off (foolishly so, considering Clinton won AZ in 1996) and lost big, I wish I had voted Green in 2000 and that I could have in 2004. I certainly will this time if the Dem nominee ignores my state again and isn't even competetive -- that is, if there's a doable choice on my ballot.

Anyhow, one can hold one's nose only so many times.~

11:00 pm

Sitka has soft spots AWWWWW.

Thanks for hosting the Sicko movie.  I traveled from OKC to Stillwater on 1/11 to speak to a great group of people, many dems and some republicans who came to see Sicko.

 We should invite friends and host Sicko parties monthly at either the a home, club or organization we belong to.  The OKC dems are hosting a viewing of Sicko this month.

 Also consider joining HealthCareNow.org

Since returning from Cuba, I was diagnosed with Pulmonary Fibrosis which is terminal.  The average person lives 4-5 yrs once diagnosed unless they receive a lung transplant.  Since I have limited income and now have only medicare with no supplemental policy, my chances are extremely small that I will be placed on a transplant list when I need to.

I would do it again if we had another catastrophe.  However, we deserve better.

Reggie Cervantes

Oklahoma City, OK

SIcko

Thanks for stopping by Reggie.

Backward Christian Soldiers

Evangelicals are taking over the US military, reports David Belden. And one man’s determined to stop them

If you heard it said that America’s military was being taken over by agents of apocalyptic Christianity, you might think it the fiction of some leftwing alarmist. But what if it came from a man who said, “I never thought, coming from a conservative military Republican family filled with [US Air Force] Academy graduates and people that have been in so much combat, that at this point in my life, after being a White House lawyer, a lawyer for a Texas billionaire, a businessman, that I’d  suddenly become this political activist”?

Meet Mikey Weinstein, who has become the leading whistleblower and campaigner against the influence of fundamentalist evangelicals in the US military. Listening to him is a strange experience. He is the most combative speaker I have ever heard in public life. His language is so extreme that I hesitate to reproduce it lest readers discount his views. “When I see anti-Semitism, I don’t fucking care if I live or die, someone’s going to get a fucking beating,” he says in one of his milder moments. But the man himself is convincing, both in person and in his book With God on Our Side: One Man’s War Against an Evangelical Coup in America’s Military. If he is right … well, more on that later. First, hear his voice:

“We are facing a national security threat in this country that is every bit as significant in magnitude, width and breadth internally as that presented externally by the now-resurgent Taliban and al-Qaeda. And it is the destruction of the US constitutionally mandated wall separating metaphysical and physical, spiritual and non-spiritual, church and state, in the technologically most lethal organisation every created by humankind, which is our honourable and noble military. I’m here to report to you today that that wall is nothing but smoke and debris. We are facing an absolute fundamentalist Christianisation – a Talibanisation – of the US Marine Corps, Army, Navy, and Air Force.” 

330. It's pretty disgusting what has happened to our armed forces. My husband said when he went to the Naval Academy -- it wasn't anything like how it is now. Pretty sad really. The Air Force Academy is really infiltrated. Where is the leadership?

Where is the leadership?

All on the wrong side, for too long it seems. But there are those in oppostion, better late than never.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/1/19/the-film-about-vaccines-you-must-see.aspx

My goodness.  All this stuff flying about.

Pat wrote to Seashell:  "So, yes. I have interpreted your comments as racist as anti Jewish as anti religious, ...... You are a misguided, conceited, arrogant human being. "

Pat, I think an apology is in order. I may be re-posting this often.

I agree with Phil that JE should stay out of it and let the two battle it out.

Such ugliness out there and in here.  Makes me want to shower.

I agree with Phil that JE should stay out of it and let the two battle it out.

That's in an ideal poitical that doesn't exist (except for Dean's refusal to crawl in the gutter when things went bad for him).

Edwards is trying to work it to his advantage by helping take down Hillary so he can supplant her as Obama's rival. So if I were giving advice to Edwardiacs, I'd say follow his lead and start piling on Hillary rather than Obama.

Then I can stick up for her for a change. ;-) 

And Sea, I don't think those things said to you are accurate. I think you were misinterpreted. Probably a good idea for all of us to read and think twice before clicking "submit"  or reacting to comments involving race, religion, gender, or ethnicity (did I leave anything out?)

Thank you, Sitka.  No, they're not accurate, tho I am not a great fan of organized religion.  But you all knew that, didn't you?  :-)

ATTN:  west coast

Solomon and Sheba is just starting  with Yul Brenner and Gina Loll.. 

Brynner, yes, that's better.

tho I am not a great fan of organized religion.

That's the area I'm most likely to let go and really offend someone. But I try not to.

Sheesh, yet another massive thread ...

********
25. john nelson

Yes, Kucinich DOES have a website for his Presidential campaign at http://www.dennis4president.com/home/

The Congressional website that you reached is the same one that I reached when I clicked the link on DU. It purports to be his Pres campaign website, but is not. Someone here who is a DU member (I am not since I don't post there, just lurk and appreciate) should let them know about that.

I am surprised on a thread where many here state that Kucinich is one whom they support (and who "won" the DFA poll) that not one person caught this ... at least so far as I could see. Some here referred john to HJ, but no one addressed the incorrect fact at all (at least that I saw in my skim-through). Yet we have had tons of discussion devoted to *present* votes, which most agree are a political strategy and should not of themselves be held against any candidate.

Hey people, Google lives!

Based on this admittedly small instance, it appears that I am one of the few who has actually visited each of the campaign websites and compared the cadidates' stands as articulated on those websites.

I still prefer Al Gore or Howard Dean as my ideal candidate. But of those currently running, each flawed in some aspect, IMO, Edwards is the best comprehensive package.

No one here has to agree with that, of course. But rather than simply repeating what you believe about the candidate you support and denigrating others, please at least check out what the others have to say.

In the immortal words of our Paine, " ... just sayin' ..."

Speaking of DU, here's EarlG's inimitable Top Ten.

==============
The Top 10 Conservative Idiots, No. 320
January 14, 2007
Mac Is Wack Edition

This week John McCain (1) lands first place after stumbling to victory in New Hampshire. Meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani (2) goes for broke, Mitt Romney (3) shows his mettle, and Fred Thompson (4) quietly fades away. Enjoy, and don't forget the key!

[...]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

And speaking of candidates' stands, here's Krugman, dissecting what each (even the Repos) candidate has to say:

=============
January 14, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
Responding to Recession
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Suddenly, the economic consensus seems to be that the implosion of the housing market will indeed push the U.S. economy into a recession, and that it’s quite possible that we’re already in one. As a result, over the next few weeks we’ll be hearing a lot about plans for economic stimulus.

Since this is an election year, the debate over how to stimulate the economy is inevitably tied up with politics. And here’s a modest suggestion for political reporters. Instead of trying to divine the candidates’ characters by scrutinizing their tone of voice and facial expressions, why not pay attention to what they say about economic policy?

In fact, recent statements by the candidates and their surrogates about the economy are quite revealing.

[...]
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/opinio...

putzie's audience here is not so credulous as the American people are.

Moreoever, putzCo's ME credibility is nonexistent.

==================
Bush urges Arab allies to confront Iran, 'the world's leading sponsor of state terror'
· President accuses Tehran of backing Shia groups
· Gulf media highlight uncritical support of Israel
Ian Black, Middle East editor
Monday January 14, 2008
Guardian

President George Bush yesterday ratcheted up US rhetoric over Iran, lambasting it as "the world's leading sponsor of state terror", and urging America's closest Arab allies to confront it "before it is too late".

Giving the only formal speech of his seven-country Middle East tour in the United Arab Emirates, the president accused Tehran of backing Shia groups in Iraq, Hizbullah in Lebanon, Hamas in the Palestinian territories and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

"Iran's actions threaten the security of nations everywhere," he declared in Abu Dhabi. "So the United States is strengthening our longstanding security commitments with our friends in the Gulf and rallying friends around the world to confront this danger before it is too late."

Bush arrived in the UAE after stops in Kuwait and Bahrain, where he visited the headquarters of the US Fifth Fleet, three of whose warships were involved in last week's confrontation with Iranian Revolutionary Guard boats in the Strait of Hormuz.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33205...

This is the last for now ... have good ones.

**********
*Freedom* is as *freedom* does.

=================
Bush talks the talk on human rights. Now he must walk the walk
By Claire Soares
Published: 14 January 2008

President George Bush is under pressure from human rights groups to use his visit to Saudi Arabia today to seek the release of the pioneering blogger Fouad al-Farhan, who has been jailed without charge for more than a month.

The human rights groups, including Amnesty International and the Committee to Protect Journalists, are urging the president to raise Mr Farhan's case with King Abdullah today. They also want him to appeal for the release of an Egyptian blogger, Abdel Karim Suleiman, the first to be jailed in Egypt, when he meets President Hosni Mubarak at Sharm-el-She-ikh on Wednesday. The Egyptian blogger is serving a four-year sentence for insulting President Mubarak.

[...]
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/midd...

251... Those Hiullary subordinates are dividing the dems and creating divisions that will take decades to heal.

that is a division that will have to be dealt with eventually, imo.  it's the old guard vs the new guard, the dlc vs American progressive democrats.  Hillary wants to bring this to a head NOW, before the grassroots get any smarter or stronger.  oops - too late, Mrs. Clinton...

candidates - put this back on the agenda, dammit!  (come out and talk to these folks, Al.  shake things up a bit, eh?!)

...Climatic changes appear to be destabilizing vast ice sheets of western Antarctica that had previously seemed relatively protected from global warming, researchers reported yesterday, raising the prospect of faster sea-level rise than current estimates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/13/AR2008011302753.html?nav=rss_email/components