What do I say? Dean is first.

48.
Phil Specht
Fri, 01/04/08

Reply to this

a rowdy enthusiastic crowd for Obama that ate all the refreshments brought by Hillary supporters while they were in the gym electing their delegates lol

...

+++

Phil - 

The spoils of war --

"DONUTS !!!" "DONUTS !!!" "DONUTS !!!"

Once again, I don't consider Obama to be progressive. His political career was mentored by Jihad Joe Lieberman, and his policy positions (although deliberately murky) pander to the wealthy, white power structure.

Obama's messsage is uplifting and the progressive movement is all about building a better world of peace and justice.

I say we claim him and work at keeping him from backsliding.

When this becomes a two man race between Edwards and Obama we can debate the finer points of the progressive movement.

Edwards is running as a progressive populist and Obama a new way progressive and whichever of the two becomes President will define the movement. Right now they are both going with the flow of history where people regain their democracy and the tools of justice after having it stolen from them.

John wrote about Obama "His political career was mentored by Jihad Joe Lieberman, and his policy positions (although deliberately murky) pander to the wealthy, white power structure."

Look at it this way.  Unlike Edwards, he forewent the opportunity to earn a half million dollars as a hedge fund advisor.  His senate voting record is undeniably the more liberal of the two.  

You're biased towards "do as I say, not as I do" liberals.

CAMBRIDGE, Mass.—Gov. Deval Patrick says Barack Obama's victory in Iowa should put to rest any concerns about the "electability" of the Illinois senator.

Patrick gathered with other Obama supporters at a Harvard Square restaurant to watch the Iowa caucus returns Thursday night. The Massachusetts governor endorsed Obama in October and traveled to Iowa last weekend for a two-day campaign swing through the state.

...

Patrick has several events scheduled on behalf of Obama Saturday and Sunday in New Hampshire, which holds the nation's first presidential primary on Tuesday.

4.

Phil -

Nice comment about Obama.  Thanks.

The corporate media, led by the NYT, are decreeing a 2-way race--first (woman) vs first (black).

Makes for good theatre, but disenfranchises those of us who don't care for either first.

You're biased towards "do as I say, not as I do" liberals.

I'm biased toward liberals who say things of substance rather than blowing feelgood smoke.

> 

Oh John, that's old news. MSNBS' Morning Joe declared the race over.  Yes, Clinton was defeated. Or, so says the republican talking points propaganda platform - Morning Joe.

I could say I feel disenfranchised, if I was a rock solid Clinton supporter.  BTW, Hillary does NOT frighten me. But to your remark on disenfranchisement, I felt disenfranchised by the corporate/republican controlled national (and homogeneous local) media during Bill's years in office, and I am "mad as hell" about that, still.

I want progress.  I want a Progressive mandate. And, I want to crush(!) those in my way (including Ron Paul). 

When choosing your candidate, of course the most important factor is, "Who would you like to have a beer with?" The winner is...(drum roll)...Barack Obama!!!

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/s...ml? hpid=topnews

btw, one of Huck's son's was injured in an auto accident in Des Moines on Friday. He will be ok and well enough to torture dogs in no time.

I said, "I want to crush(!) those in my way"

And, anything else is bullshit.  That's right, "bullshit."

As Elvis said, "Thank you very much;)" 

"Who would you like to have a beer with?"

<

I dislike the idea of going to a bar to sit around drinking and gabbing.  I don't care for it, so WhyTF should ^that^ often quoted phase (offered as reason to direct my vote) by the homogeneous corporate (pander to the working-class) republican media machine induce me? Well, IT DON'T ! 

Paine, you seem to have awakened on the crabby side of the bed this morning. ;-)

Donna, not at all.  I am just having fun (in my own mind) ... I'm rollin' my ass all over the floor ;)

John wrote "I'm biased toward liberals who say things of substance rather than blowing feelgood smoke."

Could you explain how either would serve to recommend someone as a preferable presidential candidate?

So far, abou the only thing I like about Obama is that he doesnt wear those silly little flag pins and refuses to put his hand over his heart during the pledge...............fancy speeches and telling people that are desperate to be told what they want to hear ala Reagan is too shallow for me.........

Mike wrote "fancy speeches and telling people that are desperate to be told what they want to hear ala Reagan is too shallow for me........."

That sums up Edwards' support of and opposition to the Iraq invasion nicely.

donna in evanston
Sat, 01/05/08

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just remember.........it wa this sort of twisted American voter logic that gave us George Bush......to me, a President does not sit down and has a beer with the common folk..besides, the SS wouldnt let the average American beer drinker get within 500' of  beer drinking President.

Can you honestly imagine JFK, FDR sitting down and havong a beer with Joe or jane Six pack?

" Unlike Edwards, he forewent the opportunity to earn a half million dollars as a hedge fund advisor."

Initially, this bothered me...I would like disclosure as to what he did for the hedge fund.  However, the more I thought about it the more I'm inclined to believe that he provided legal counsel.....he wouldn't be qualified to provide any other services for them.

Still, I'd like JE to provide a job description for his work at the hedge fund. 

Tom Bearse
Sat, 01/05/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ive been saying all along every one of these candidates, well..............lets take a line from the Grinch song..................."stink.........stank..........stunk"...........................oh, by the way............notice the number of Independents in NH?   lol

Mike wrote "to me, a President does not sit down and has a beer with the common folk."

That would be like a DNC chariman riding coach and carrying his luggage.

Mike wrote "by the way............notice the number of Independents in NH?"

I have.  Also the number among Iowa caucus goers.  That's why I'm beginning to see why both Clinton and McCain may have a problem on their hands on Tuesday.

"Can you honestly imagine JFK, FDR sitting down and havong a beer with Joe or jane Six pack?"

I'd prefer a fireside chat.

Ummm, actually I don't drink beer.  I'm more of a white wine drinker.  I will base my vote on who prefers the best Pino Grigio.

Chablis is acceptable as well.

 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080105/ap_po/abc_debate

[...] 

"ABC should not be the first primary," the Ohio congressman said in papers filed at the Federal Communications Commission.

ABC said the candidates left out of the debates failed to meet benchmarks for their support that were outlined to each campaign prior to the Iowa caucus. Kucinich did not complain about these rules ahead of time, said spokeswoman Cathie Levine, who had no further comment since she hasn't seen the FCC filing.

[...]

>

This line,

Kucinich did not complain about these rules ahead of time, said spokeswoman Cathie Levine

causes me to think of Republican Romney's "when I said I SAW my father marching with Martin Luther King, I meant that imagined ... i saw my father marching with martin luther king (how small can i make myself?0. 

per last:

like Repuglickian Romney (insert subliminal "evil, evil man", here), ABC reminds the buyer to read the fine print.  Yes, even if it is only implied in the mind of the sender.

white wine

...gives me a headake.  Red wine, "thank you very much." 

headache

OK, be well.  I need a shower.  Hope my good mood continues ;)

Nice to *see* donna ^ Paine out and about. Nice also to see a DFA intern who was born in Ireland. Welcome Lisa, although this isn't properly your thread.

Just popping by to post this from the WaPo, not about any of our elections, but a report from one who was lving and working in Kenya until just a few days ago.

======================
Va. Peace Corps Worker Details Perils in Kenya
By Theresa Vargas
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 5, 2008; A12

The men on the side of the road gripped machetes as Fauquier County native Gillie Kehoe and fellow Peace Corps volunteers passed in two pickups, zigzagging around charred cars on the way out of a village near Kisumu, Kenya.

It was New Year's Day, and ethnically charged violence was spreading quickly across the country amid accusations that the presidential election was rigged. The eight-kilometer drive to promised safety for Kehoe and the others might have taken 10 or 30 minutes.

But "it felt like forever," Kehoe, 26, said in a phone interview yesterday. A man guided the trucks, yelling his political allegiance to ensure the travelers' safety. Even so, a man swiped the front of one truck with a machete.

"Had he not been there, I think they would have overtaken the car," Kehoe said of her guide. "The men on side of the road . . . they were just idle. It's like they were waiting for something to happen."

By yesterday, Kehoe and other volunteers were out of Kenya, away from the carnage that began when President Mwai Kibaki won reelection. Peace Corps officials said 34 volunteers who were working in three western provinces would be temporarily moved to neighboring Tanzania.

The Peace Corps has 144 volunteers in Kenya, 122 of whom were in the country when the unrest began, officials said. All of the volunteers have been accounted for and are safe, officials said.

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Already getting some flak on Obama down here...........plus my responses.............

1)he doesnt believe in putting his hand over his heart during the pledge.

My response...........so what. Does that REALLY matter?  Does that make him any LESS of a good citizen than the person that does?

2)I wont vote for a black guy..............My response, Hes not black but mixed race, and what does it matter anyway........for the last 40 years this country has been run and ruined by rich white guys.........maybe its time for a change?

3)He was born i the Middle east and is sympathetic to Muslims.........my response, Im not sure where he was born but Im certain it was in the US because to become Prez you have to have been born here, as far as sympathetic to Muslims so what?  More Muslims have been killed by Chritians than vice versa the past 8 years....................each group has their extremes..........

More to follow..............Im doing my best rd.....................this is gonna be tough.

I like change. I've got a pocket full.

In Canada, you can accumulate $20 worth of change in no time.

Mike wrote "So far, abou the only thing I like about Obama is that he doesnt wear those silly little flag pins and refuses to put his hand over his heart during the pledge."

I think it's during the national anthem that he doesn't place his hand over his heart.  I don't think he refrains from it during the pledge of allegiance.

12.
Phil Specht
Sat, 01/05/08

Reply to this

Ohio's Governor sure didn't do Hillary any good when he visited Iowa, Deval Patrick needs to do better for Barack, lol  

+++

Phil -

Deval already did better for Barack -- last weekend Deval stood with Barack at a rally in Iowa on 12/29 and then canvassed for him throughout the rest of the state on Sun 12/30.

HILLARY HITS OBAMA FOR OPPOSING STIFFER PRISON SENTENCES

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/hillary-hits-obama-for-op_n_79918.html

Now that's a good one. Good ole Law'n order Hill. In a country that imprisons a far greater proportion of its population than any other on the globe.

Be very afraid! (of Hillary)

33. 

Mike -

Tell them Obama was born in Hawaii:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

...

Born in Honolulu to a Kenyan father and an American mother, Obama grew up in culturally diverse surroundings. He lived most of his early life in Hawaii and spent four of his pre-teen years in Jakarta, Indonesia. A graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, Obama worked as a community organizer, university lecturer, and civil rights lawyer before running for public office.

...

Same link as 37.

Edwards' staff also immediately began to take shots at Obama: Appearing on MSNBC this morning, Edwards' manager David Bonior described Obama as a sellout to corporate America: "Barack Obama's kind of change is where you sit down and you cut a deal with the corporate world.

Now there's some truth in that one..........................

COCKBURN AND ST. CLAIR ON IOWA

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn01042008.html

Snippets:

For the party establishments--Democratic and Republican--it was a bad night, as their favored candidates went down to severe defeat.

 Young voters see Obama as a break with the past, and he skillfully manages to avoid any substantive positioning that might disabuse them of this belief. As much as the press tried to say that the war is no longer an issue, it turned to be the top concern of the voters, and Obama's record features opposition to the war in his Senate campaign in 2004. Clinton and Edwards both voted for the war. Edwards apologized for that vote. Clinton never did.

It's hard to see any future for the Edwards campaign, unless as some kind of Hillary surrogate to siphon votes away from Obama in New Hampshire and South Carolina. There's no evidence that economic populism doesn't sell in Iowa. It's simply that this time around Democrats and Independents didn't see Edwards as a persuasive salesman.

Overall, for those who have bewailed a dull political season, the Iowa results have brightened the landscape by overturning the official applecart. The race will get nasty. Both Obama and Huckabee have survived the first round of mudslinging. Mrs. Clinton's presidential campaign is now fighting for survival, and Hillary and Bill will throw everything they have at Obama. The Republican establishment will give Huckabee the same treatment.

cChalfonte wrote "I'd like JE to provide a job description for his work at the hedge fund."

Here's some of what we know form BusinessWeek's report of 10/13/05:

"The Street's latest recruit: John Edwards, the ex-North Carolina senator and Vice-Presidential standard bearer for the Democratic Party in the 2004 elections.

"BusinessWeek has learned that Edwards has signed up to work for the New York-based private investment concern Fortress Investment Group as a part-time senior advisor. As such, he will be 'providing support in developing investment opportunities worldwide and strategic advice on global economic issues,' says Edwards spokesperson Kim Rubey. . . .

"Edwards joins a growing line of policymakers turned dealmakers. Former Veep Dan Quayle has been sealing deals around the world for hedge fund group Cerberus Capital Management ever since he dropped out of the 2000 Presidential race.

"Ex-New York Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani has set up his own investment banking advisory firm -- Giuliani Capital Advisors. He also chairs the board of advisors to Leeds Weld & Co., where former Massachusetts Governor William Weld was a principal until recently. Weld has reduced his role to a senior advisor while considering a run for New York governor.

"Edwards was a highly successful trial lawyer in the Tarheel State before going into politics. But his experience in Washington should serve him well as a global financial adviser. He was on the Senate Intelligence Committee in Congress and boned up on global economics during the 2004 Presidential campaign for a nationally televised debate with Cheney. . . ."

Hey, thanks Tom B. 

ok, makes sense that he would be in a position to advise, particularly on emerging markets, i.e., stability of governments, etc.  I was initially puzzled because a multi-billion dollar hedge fund wouldn't need an "intro", so to speak, from a well-known pol.  If said fund was interested in investing in a particular company a call from the fund would warmly welcomed, lol.

In the case of Rudy G--an investment banking firm--different story.  His name on it would draw companies seeking to go public-taking cos public being a primary function of an IBank.

Thanks for that info:) 

On an earlier topic, I mentioned my Repubness from 1980-2000 and was asked if I regretted it.
The answer: Except for maybe 1980, not really.
Look what was going on and who the Dem candidates were…
1980: Jimmy Carter is running for a seemingly disastrous second term. Everything was breaking wrong for Carter:
High oil prices.
Cut backs in military spending slowed the economy and there wasn’t any “next big thing".
Carter was perceived as naive in world affairs. The big knock on him was being too nice to the Russians. Since we had left the South VN to fend for themselves, Europe and the rest of our allies ringing the Soviet Bloc were afraid we would bail on them. I was in France and Italy often during that time and the Europeans did not trust him and did not trust us.
Stagflation in the economy featuring high inflation and high interest rates. Carter was killed by Paul Volker as head of the Fed. Carter was hoping for a gradual rise in interest rates to get a soft economic landing. Volker gutted him by jamming interest rates up which crushed inflation causing more economic strife. Later events showed Cater was sabotaged by the Reagan team who got the Iranians to keep the hostages and by his own inept staff who never helped him develop a plan to do anything
Along comes Ronny Rambo and it is sunrise in America again. His remedy was to quietly acquiesce to Volker but prime the pump with broad military spending. He confronted the Soviet Bloc with a lot of swagger realizing things could go horribly wrong. To pay for his excesses that those of us in the business world loved, he crushed the safety nets and went after the unions.
I was part of the greed is good crowd. After VN, college and grad school, I married and started raising a family. I was really angry how vets were treated and someone who seemed to stick up for the military was what I needed. I ignored the fact it was a sham as veterans help was under funded (as it still is today), and his ignorance about the military in general (and everything else) got a lot of troops killed in Lebanon. A lot of us never had it so good; a lot of us didn’t.
1984: Dems nominated Walter Mondale who spent a lot of his time as Carter’s VP sleeping at his desk. Reagan won in a cakewalk. The Dem platform was to raise taxes with no consideration of alternatives. The shallowness and lack of imagination typified the Dem Party at that time. What a winner raising taxes was. They proposed nothing except a continuation of big government largesse that eventually cost them the Congress and WH.
1988: Dems nominate Dukakis who had a mystery message. Repubs nominated Bush1 who as Reagans VP assured us of the same policies.
1992, 1996: Dems elected Bill Clinton. Anyone who knew anything at all about Arkansas and Bubba knew Bill was screwing everything in a skirt and had the attention span of a flea. A brilliant but totally shallow person, he was smart enough to manage the military cutbacks because of the fall of the Soviet Union by encouraging and financing entrepreneurship. He also gave us NAFTA and CAFTA, which accelerated the off shoring slide of our economy. He instituted smart economic policies that produced millions more jobs then were lost. He did not understand this was a temporary advantage as job migration is killing the middle class today. The best thing about Bill was Hillary. Despite current attempts at rewriting her Arkansas history, she did wonders trying to improve education and medical care for Arkansas residents. It is no accident that the Children’s Defense Fund flourished under Clinton. This was because of Hillary.
If the Arkansas Hillary was running today, I would support her with my last dieing breath; she was that good. The Hillary now turns her back on those who needed and supported her the most.

dog soldier - where do you live? We were Republicans for about the same number of years.

I think I remember you from the Dean days - Arkansas?

36. rd - Deval Patrick is exceptional. Obama is fortunate to have him in his corner. The people of Mass are sure lucky.

"Who would you like to have a beer with?"

I dislike the idea of going to a bar to sit around drinking and gabbing.  I don't care for it,

________

You should give it another try.  It is one of life's simple pleasures.  TO ALL MY FRIENDS!!! 

. Carter was killed by Paul Volker as head of the Fed. Carter was hoping for a gradual rise in interest rates to get a soft economic landing. Volker gutted him by jamming interest rates up which crushed inflation causing more economic strife. Later events showed Cater was sabotaged by the Reagan team who got the Iranians to keep the hostages

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the same thing is going to happen to the next President economically and Bush will start a war somewhere on his way out

Edwards is a bigger threat to the powers that be, inside the beltway, so will be the next target.

He will do well in a bunch of the Feb 5th states if the grassroots can keep him  in the race.

either of the two will be such a relief to the world that you could flip a coin on foreign affairs, other than the for profit war makers being more threatened by Edwards

Fox,

Good video of you and your friends at the bar.............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gzntRpYsQ

Phil wrote "Edwards is a bigger threat to the powers that be, inside the beltway, so will be the next target."

Your suspicion is that he won't work for or as an adviser or consultant to one of the powers that be in the event he doesn't make it through the election?

Richardson has beeribility. That is why he doubled Biden in Iowa. (that and a way out of Iraq)

so does Huckabee although for all I know as a Babtist preacher he doesn't touch the stuff.

that sells with about thirty percent of the guys so that is my prediction for Huckabee in New Hampshire 30% divided by two(gender) plus 7 for the fundies and you get McCain 28 Romney 24 Huckabee 21 Thompson 10 Paul 9 Guiliani 8

Tom

looking at his record I'd say the odds are better that he will be on a legal team in their face.

Obama is going to win New Hampshire, the race for second is the one that matters again.

45,
I am currently in western Michigan but lived in Illinois and Wisconsin in the 1960s and 1970s, Florida and Arizona in the 1980s, Colorado until 1995 and Michigan since then.
I supported Howard until he withdrew and then went with Kerry. I participated in VNVAW at the same time as Kerry, but never meant him.
Later on, I was in international finance and was hired by our justice department to participate in the analysis of the BCCI banking scandal transfers in the late 1980s. We wrote a detailed report of the money transfers and turned it over to Kerry's committee. I never met the man but I like to think I helped him put a lot of bad guys in jail.
It seemed like I knew the guy, even though I never met him. I could ignore his mish-mash speeches because I knew the goodness of the man.

Phil wrote "Obama is going to win New Hampshire, the race for second is the one that matters again."

I have the same inkling, but I am not sanguine about it in any way.  It would be a feat on a scale beyond coming in first in Iowa. 

Here's a great idea ... did you see any of these ads in Iowa, Phil?

===================
Friday, Jan. 04, 2008
Nurses Launch National 'CheneyCare' Campaign
New Print, Online Ads Jumpstart Petition Drive for Guaranteed Health Care
The California Nurses Association

WASHINGTON, Jan. 4 — The California Nurses Association (CNA)/National Nurses Organizing Committee (NNOC) launched a national campaign today in favor of what the group has dubbed "CheneyCare" -- guaranteed, publicly-funded health care for all Americans.

The campaign was inspired by the success of the group's Iowa ads declaring that Vice President Dick Cheney "would be dead" if he did not have publicly-funded health care. A new version of the Iowa ad asking Americans to sign a petition for "CheneyCare" will run today in eight New Hampshire papers before going national in the New York Times, Washington Post, and USA Today, as well as leading political blogs, on Monday.

"All Americans have the right to the quality of care that our Vice-President, President, and Congress already have," said Rose Ann DeMoro, Executive Director of CNA/NNOC and a vice-president of the AFL-CIO. "All the leading Democratic proposals fall well short of "CheneyCare," keeping insurance companies at the apex of power and allowing them to deny care that can save lives. The Republican proposals are even worse."

The ad uses recent headlines about Vice-President Dick Cheney's latest heart procedure to point out the difference between the government-funded health care that the nation's leading politicians enjoy and the precarious health care situation in which most Americans find themselves.

[...]
The ad asks readers to go to http://www.CheneyCare.org and sign a petition in support of CheneyCare for all Americans. The blog ads cut to the chase, with the tagline "CheneyCare for all."

[...]
http://www.centredaily.com/business/stor...

cheers Fox

one of the guys I have an occasional beer with is a right wing nut like you but I like to hunt and fish with the guy so I put up with his mental lapses

If Hillary takes a turn to the right from where she already is she is self-destructing and won't make it to Feb 5th.

I'll go out on a limb and predict a Thompson win in Wyoming since I'm in the mood for crystal ball gazing frivolity.

I wrote,

"Who would you like to have a beer with?"

I dislike the idea of going to a bar to sit around drinking and gabbing.  I don't care for it,

________

To which Fox Mulder responded,

You should give it another try.  It is one of life's simple pleasures.  TO ALL MY FRIENDS!!! 

>

So, I must report further that I do not care to muck-up my drinking with conversation.  

Jus' kiddin'

Single malt, please, if you're buyin'. 

BBL

Saw a bit of the Obama event just a moment ago in NH.  Good speech.  Same stump he gave at the dinner last night:

Programs 1-10 of 809
New Hampshire Democratic Party 100 Club Dinner
Several presidential candidates are scheduled to speak at the New Hampshire Democratic Party 100 Club Dinner including: Sens. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), Barack Obama (D-IL), Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) & Gov. Bill Richardson (D-NM).
1/4/2008: WASHINGTON, DC:

 http://www.c-span.org/videoarchives.asp?CatCodePairs=,

LATER BBL 

Huron John.....

A retired school Principal asked me if I were supporting Hillary for Pres. I told her no, and explained why. She said, yes, but why are you not supporting her? I gave her another longer explanation about the Corp. and the war. She said, yes, I know, you explained all that, but why aren't you supporting Hillary?

I've come to believe that if it's not in your belief system, you can't even hear other ideas.
This school Principal doesn't accept that the system she had taught might need some attention.

Thanks for your posts.

I also think Obama has a really good shot in NH. Don't overestimate Hill's appeal in the Northeast. She hasn't really done anything much as a Senator other than bide her time.

People I know who supported her said their reason was she was the only Dem who could win. Now they are starting to question that. Let alone the sobering question that we fought a bloody revolution so that we wouldn't be ruled by divine right... and Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton sure starts to sound like a kind of inevitability that's totally repellent.

I'm not enough of an Obama fan to freeze my fanny in NH the way I was happy to for Howard, but I wish him the best.

-- volney

From Keith Olbermann, one of the few in the US MSM actually to acknowledge that Edwards actually came in ahead of Hillary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktMwamcxd...

Here also is a piece with several reminders about why it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to work with today's *Republics* ...

=======
[...]
Republicans are not tame. They're barely housebroken. Every notable Repug, from the President to Congress to those wacky fellows at FOX News, are like a feral dog just waiting for the scent of blood in the air.

Right now they seem subdued, but that's because we haven't yet chosen a target for them. They're playing at choosing one out of half a dozen barking mad motherfuckers for THEIR nomination for POTUS, but, bear in mind, they've got one eye on our side of the fence just waiting to see what kind of meat we're going to be throwing their direction.

[...]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

Well, it seems pretty clear. If people are looking at the issues and policy and a real agenda and support for the people, they will choose Edwards. If they just want a new face that preaches good to their ears, they'll go with Obama.

Linda wrote "If people are looking at the issues and policy and a real agenda and support for the people, they will choose Edwards. If they just want a new face that preaches good to their ears, they'll go with Obama."

On the other hand, it's possible that for some people, actions speak louder than words.

For all you poll junkies:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1...

Wow. I don't think Hillary (if she loses NH) can again claim that she never was the frontrunner in NH. She was up +25 points.

Phil,

A few of my fishing buddies were Republicans who voted for Bush...I've taken some back from the dark side, the others have just given up talking politics with me...lol...and I'm a novice compared to most here.

I also think you are correct about Obama winning NH. One of our committee members has been volunteering for Obama's campaign for quite some time and she reports growing numbers from the army of youths involved. Fingers are crossed for another Hillary loss, like I've said before...lots of Edwards signs around.

Right now they seem subdued, but that's because we haven't yet chosen a target for them. They're playing at choosing one out of half a dozen barking mad motherfuckers for THEIR nomination for POTUS,

_____________________

Wow, that's mature.  I have the bar of soap waiting for you.  Oh, sorry that would be discipline and you obviously have never had any.

Thanks for that poll, mary vb.  I don't see how Edwards stays in the race if he places a rather low third as indicated by Rasmussen:(

Hope I'm wrong about that.

The Obama Surge.  I don't perceive him as a beerability guy.  Definitely one of the most charismatic in a very long time though.  Amazing rhetorical skills. 

Back to the wood pile, break is over...porch was empty plus wood pile and trailer were snowed in...and want to get done in time for the games (with a beer).

Still wondering why Dodd never really caught fire.  Not enough campaign $$$$?  Poor campaign org?  Curious about that one.

Seems he "really" had the experience, wisdom, insight, etc.

Is charisma really the deciding factor for most Americans? 

67.

Tom Bearse
Sat, 01/05/08



Linda wrote "If people are looking at the issues and policy and a real agenda and support for the people, they will choose Edwards. If they just want a new face that preaches good to their ears, they'll go with Obama."

On the other hand, it's possible that for some people, actions speak louder than words.

_______________

Indeed. Actions like votes by Obama don't match those words.

cheers Fox

one of the guys I have an occasional beer with is a right wing nut like you but I like to hunt and fish with the guy so I put up with his mental lapses

___________

Most of my friends are Democrats.  I am pro choice so I don't know how right wing that makes me.  I support Dean.  But he was a centrist, not anywhere near where this org has gone in the last 4 years.  I also believe I may be wrong on everything or right on everything which is a bit of intraspection not found around here very often. Not all Dems are Maxine Waters and not all Repubs are Dick Cheney.  I would never descibe any of you as a MF like Judy.

like Judy should be like Judy did me..

new thread

and cChalfonte to "catch on" you have to jump three hurdles, first be qualified, second stand for something, third make it not about you but about a larger vision for the country that makes the candidate part of a movement

doesn't matter how high you clear the first two by

If Obama does manage the nomination, he and everyone else better be prepared. Because he has made this about Race. Bringing a new face is the change he's been talking about. People have not paid attention to his issues. So if it comes down to him vs a Republican, Race will be what he has brought there and will he be able to get peoples sympathy vote or as the Black Agenda called it, enough for just any Black person in charge to win against a Republican? Or if they start looking at his issues, he won't be able to distinguish himself against a Republican.

I'm pretty sure Judy was posting a quote from someone else Fox but if it makes you feel better I'll call you a motherf*cker and give you a Republican chance for righteous indignation.

Wow, according to that Poll, it looks like Edwards is surging. He was always lower in New Hampshire......Go John Edwards!

I don't understand beerability.
So I'll change it to being able to talk to the person.
I felt I could talk to Kerry or Howard about the issues. We could have a dialog about things each of us is knowledgeable about and we could come to an understanding of what directions the country needed to go.
Try having this conversation with Bush. We may have to start with what color should be used in his coloring book.
I have talked to Edwards at an ACORN rally and he listens and understands and conveys a need to help solve problems. He is empathetic and he always tries to weave his own background into the discussions. I know this is to show he understands but it gets a little old at times. This is the good side of who he really is. The bad side is a manipulative lawyer who treats all like they are members of a jury. I didn't feel that way but can see how others do.
Obama may be more cerebral then that. We might end up having a discussion about the history of world economics weaving in the Constitutional applicable laws. I might want him to discuss his economic plans to bring prosperity back to the middle class. About debt and social security changes. Obama did say it was in trouble but a lot of study on my part indicates it needs help but not an overhaul.
Edwards may be more mature in describing himself better.
Hillary would be watching to see if Bubba is hitting up on some other women in the room.

79. wOOT PHIL!!!

Linda you posting that story about your husband's professor reminded me of some of my college days and how the prof of existential literature was a regular guy but drew the line on motherf*cker just like Fox. lol

80.

PHIL.....LOL!!! 

83. :) Auh, but I doubt they would have leeped to the same conclusion as Fox did, improperly attacking the messenger, not the creator.

...btw, this is weird, but guess the name of his prof. YEP.

dog soldier
Sat, 01/05/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A very methodical and honest post............one has to respect that.

Yes, Fox loves to smear just about anyone (is he named after Faux News?) ... it's obvious that he just jumped on the words and did not look at the source.

But that's pretty typical. Thanks, Phil & Linda, for noting that it was a quote from a different source.