I just got this from PDA:

"You can join me in this critical campaign to build our progressive governing majority in Congress. If you have a few hours anytime this weekend or on Monday or Tuesday between 3 pm to 9 pm EST, please help by participating in the predictive dialing phone banking for Donna Edwards. You can make history from the comfort of your own home! It's simple and you get a real caller each time.

"For instructions and to sign up, please call or email Diane Shamis at 845-661-3754 / diane@pdamerica.org"

Dean is first for starting and sticking with the 50 state strategy.

Government BY the people is just beginning. 

9:39 AM EST

Go Donna Edwards !

Buck the establishment and show that 50-state strategy, Monica refers to of Howard's, is working.

Well, here's more c s from me:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080210/pl_nm/usa_politics_clinton_dc_1

Clinton seeks to cast herself as underdog vs Obama

By Caren Bohan 33 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Sen. Hillary Clinton, viewed by many last year as virtually unstoppable in her bid to become the Democratic presidential nominee, is now seeking to portray herself as the underdog against her rival Sen. Barack Obama.

Political analysts saw some irony in the idea that Clinton, who has been a household name since her husband, Bill Clinton, first ran for president in 1992, is pinning the label of "establishment" on her opponent.

...

While Obama has outpaced Clinton in fundraising in the first few weeks of this year, she edged out Obama in 2007. She has also had access to the Clinton political contacts of a decade or more.

...

Many analysts were not surprised that Clinton, who would become the first woman U.S. president, might try to take on the mantle of a challenger to the establishment in a year when "change" has become the buzzword of both Democratic campaigns.

Calvin Jillson, political analyst at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, said Clinton is "very clearly the establishment candidate ... and will not be able to shed the label of the establishment candidate."

Obama, who would be the first black president, uses soaring rhetoric to call for a new kind of politics that seeks to bridge racial and partisan divisions.

Clinton insists her experience would make her better able to bring about change.

"What she's trying to do is find a way to reduce Obama's compelling argument that he is the change candidate," said Terry Madonna, political analyst at Franklin and Marshall College in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

But Madonna said that labeling Obama as the candidate of the status quo may not make a dent in his support.

...

At Clinton's campaign events, the idea of her as an underdog or "anti-establishment" candidate drew puzzled looks from voters

...

Ilya, you forgot to mention what office she is running for, though you did, in the fourth paragraph, mention the state of Maryland. The mention of "beltway insiders" in the fifth paragraph makes me guess it's the U.S. Congress, though it could be the state legislature.

From previous thread (by the time I finished, this post was up):

If Clinton is given the nomination by the superdelegate machine politicians, she will need Obama to have any chance at all. But if Obama is the candidate, Clinton as VP would be a liability. Why? Because Clinton anywhere on the ticket will bring the wingnuts and dittoheads out in force, no matter how little they think of McCain. There is absolutely nothing these yahoos love more than hating Hillary. Obama on the ticket could help balance that factor, giving many Democrats someone to be enthusiastic about, because NOBODY, in either party, really LIKES Hillary Clinton.

I certainly don't like her, though for me it's not a matter of "personality" or other superfluous factors. It's things like her cynical vote for her vote to invade Iraq, cast for purely political reasons, and her continuing failure to even admit it was wrong, whatever lame excuse she gives for it. It's the fact that she is the dream girl of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the corporate "Republican Lite" wing of the party. If she heads the ticket, only the presense of Obama in the VP slot, could induce me even to vote for her.

 Right now, the Republicans are disspirited, in part because many of them hate Bush nearly as much as we do, and in part because they have no candidate that all three branches of the Reagan coalition will be happy with. The best they can do at this point, given a McCain-Huckabee ticket (if the latter doesn't burn too many bridges in a desperate attempt to catch up), is some uneasy support from the warhawk/neocons and the religious right; the coprorate feudalists who just want to rape the economy, won't be happy with either of them. Put "Hillary" up there, who unfairly or not is their Wicked Witch of the East, and we will see enthusiatic bloodlust from the other side.

Happy sunny Sunday morning,

My two cents on the previous thread:

Obama/Clinton will and should never happen.

When Obama wins, IMO he will need to choose a strong VP to run against McCain and Hillary Clinton is definitely not that person.

I don't have a clue as to who they would choose, whether it be someone with military experience, a woman (Kathleen Sebelius, governor of Kansas comes to mind), someone young enough to win the WH again after either years.

donna, you mentioned NPR and the poor journalism, that has narrowed the sources in which you have, albeit even limited, faith. 

I don't need a poll to be my bloodhound, you are not alone.  The underground railroad is a superhighway.

But, why are we so unsatisfied?  Isn't there profit in satisfying the market?  Why is the media market ignoring our needs?  Don't they want to satisfy the customer, and make money.

But then, of course, there is very little satisfaction of needs in the American marketplace where mediocrity is, evidently, the source of the greatest profit.

 John Galt?  Who?

My sunday sermon.  I must admit that I've long been tempted to start my own church.  It's such an American thing to do. LOL

http://hannah.smith-family.com/?p=2234 

Obama VP ?

Biden or Dodd.  I think they gather Independent and Republican voters from the same source as 'Cain.    

Paine, I keep telling you that while the profit motive is definitely inimical to things people need, rather than want as an option, it's possible that even in case of the latter, profit is inimical to high quality products and services.  While competition does have the potential to promote higher quality, when competition devolves into conflict or a contest wherein the competitors try to eliminate each other, the last man standing will almost inevitably be mediocre, if not a fraud.

Obama will pick a DLCer in order to placate them. Otherwise they will subvert his campaign -- which the Clintons and their most loyal minions may well try to do anyway in order to protect their accustomed status as proprietors of the store.

NPR = Nice Polite Republicans.

cC wrote "we can have a meaningful discussion about a Michelle Obama candidacy, um.....when she becomes a candidate for something?  Until then it is just blather."

This was your second wan attempt at answering a question on a fundamental issue which you raised, specifically, "What experience is required to become qualified for the presidency?".  You failed each time to answer it, opting instead for some breezy insult with no relation to the subject. 

I think I know why.  You know, discussing politics with you is a very unrewarding experience.

I'd recommend Edwards for Obama's running mate.  He'll balance the ticket.  He's a white southern male with a moderate voting record, who is adept at making closing arguments, which will come in handy during the debates.

http://blip.tv/file/643164

I'd recommend Edwards for Obama's running mate.  He'll balance the ticket.  He's a white southern male with a moderate voting record, who is adept at making closing arguments, which will come in handy during the debates. 

Edwards brought nothing to Kerry's ticket and would do the same for Obama. He's ridden into the sunset and will hopefully stay there, while fulfilling the charity related work he began after leaving the Senate (if only to prove it wasn't just a campaign gimmick.) 

Sitka wrote "Edwards brought nothing to Kerry's ticket and would do the same for Obama."

The difference was Edwards brought no balance to the ticket for Kerry outside of their north and south geographical origins. 

19.

Obama VP ?

Biden or Dodd.

Perhaps too old to carry on as president after eight years. I would think someone younger.

"I would think someone younger."

<

1. Maybe.

2. Richardson?

Paine wrote "Richardson?"

Speaking strictly strategically, Richardson would be an inspired choice.

NPR is somewhat unreliable IMHO.

C-SPAN - has anyone else seen a drift toward irrelevancy (our your drift away from) C-SPAN ?

I no longer get C-SPAN2 from my Cable fiefdom.

C-SPAN on the internets has become IMO a roadblock.

9.

My sunday sermon.  I must admit that I've long been tempted to start my own church.  It's such an American thing to do. LOL

Not to mention the great tax breaks:))

"Richardson?"

Maybe, eh?... whitey likes Richardson. 

Tom went batshit when I opined that neither Clinton nor Obama can be considered progressive.

I stick to that opinion, based on their support from big health, big pharma, big banks, and the Military-Industrial complex.

Phil opines that Obama will "do the right thing" as president if his supporters state their desires forcefully.

Sorry Phil, I can't agree. Money trumps loyalty to your base every time.

11:00am

Sitka, re: Obama will pick a DLCer in order to placate them.

no, I don't think so.  someone who's a bit centrist, perhaps, but NOT a dlc'er!  he would lose half of his support before his work had even begun.  that doesn't sound like that's his plan to me...

cC - re: your response to me - I wan't attacking you, I was saying how I felt about anyone trying to convince me to vote for a woman based solely upon gender.  and yes, I do believe Hillary is power hungry and mainpuilative.  imo that is the main reason she voted for the war - like many others, she thought it might be political suicide to vote against it at the time.  she's definitely hawkish, blended with a dose of political cowardice and as a democrat she should have fought to represent her constituency on the war, not play it politically safe.  and like Bush, she doesn't admit to her mistakes - her massive ego won't allow her to. 

she fought tooth and nail with the dlc insiders in 2004 AND 2006 to take away the will of the people - trashing good grassroots candidates at all levels to promote the dlc's blessed ones. she plays the victim/gender card when it's useful and then she sends out her MALE attack dogs with half-truths and slanderous statements against her opponents - this is quite a conflict, to me. for soooo many reasons she's not to be trusted with the welfare of our country and would not be a good candidate for leader, in my book.

Frank Rich with an acute analysis of Clinton's Hallmark Channel presentation, "Voices Across America: A National Townhall," aired on the eve of Super Tuesday.  He writes:

"Like the scripted 'Ask President Bush' sessions during the 2004 campaign, this town hall seemed to unfold in Stepford. The anodyne questions ('What else would you do to help take care of our veterans?') merely cued up laundry lists of talking points. Some in attendance appeared to trance out.

" . . . . However boring, this show was a dramatic encapsulation of how a once-invincible candidate ended up in a dead heat, crippled by poll-tested corporate packaging that markets her as a synthetic product leeched of most human qualities. What’s more, it offered a naked preview of how nastily the Clintons will fight, whatever the collateral damage to the Democratic Party, in the endgame to come.

" . . . .

" . . . . Last week, Mr. Dean became sufficiently alarmed to propose brokering an 'arrangement' if a clear-cut victory by one candidate hasn’t rendered the issue moot by the spring. But does anyone seriously believe that Howard Dean can deter a Clinton combine so ruthless that it risked shredding three decades of mutual affection with black America to win a primary?

"A race-tinged brawl at the convention, some nine weeks before Election Day, will not be a Hallmark moment. As Mr. Wilkins reiterated to me last week, it will be a flashback to the Democratic civil war of 1968, a suicide for the party no matter which victor ends up holding the rancid spoils."

Not to mention the great tax breaks:))

>

I travel around towns and I see a lot of door-to-door Christians.

I question w/not the Federal $$$ doled-out to "religious" organs, which I find unconstitutional, allows these organs to spread their seed more readily with greater potency.

I don' like it on bit.  Anyone know w/not Barack has a position on Federal funding the churches?

hujo - please provide the link and data for Obama's 'support from big health, big pharma, big banks, and the Military-Industrial complex.'  if you bother to look, I believe you will find that you are magnifying the impact of that support - from studying the FEC filings I do not find LARGE support from any of those factions.  as a matter of fact, Obama's support looks a lot like the 2008 version of Dean 2004.

John wrote "Tom went batshit when I opined that neither Clinton nor Obama can be considered progressive."

That was great.  I tried to hypnotize you over the internet into saying "Yes, we can" everytime you hear the name Obama.

well of course my response to you hujo is ABOVE the post I was commenting on... flippin' blog!

inimical?

What? LOL

Monica, your post is at #10.  LOL

Realtime is an illusion.

Can Edwards be correct: a two tier economy where

1. the well-off can find quality

2. the least common denominator satisfies the least well-off (IE let them eat cake)

In choosing a VP, it is not only important to choose one that will help get the nominee elected but to also weigh the future electability of that person, or their ability to take over the prez office whenever necessary.

Classic.  Just yesterday, Indy tried to get on Joan's case by accusing her of deciding for other people whether Kucinich was a viable candidate.  I had to break the news to him that not only was Kucinich's candidacy not viable, but it looks like Ron Paul's isn't, either. 

Well, what these several last weeks and the last night especially show to me is that the need for changes this Country and this People are desperate for is an over-ripened. People tired to wait for them, for the real ones, they are refusing to get fooled by division of sexism and/or of racism (does not mean they might not be fooled AGAIN by some other type of division!). People showed they are way ahead of their “professional leaders”, are loosing faith in those leaders’ words and promises and are much closer to start DEMANDING actions from them.

Obama’s recent advancement ahead of Hillary not so much underscores his strengths but much more of her (e.g. old party’s establishment) weaknesses. Don’t forget they both are establishment candidates and their principal stances are not so much different. Seeming failings of Hillary candidacy is just clear indication that People’s desire for changes and for new movement to get those changes is gaining momentum. It does not mean if Obama elected such a movement might or should stop. It is just only its very beginning.

In addition, Obama’s recent expression of some fresh and powerful thoughts of his own deserves to be mentioned here.
First, that’s his idea about the “mindset that brought us to this war” which requires to be changed!
Second is his slight mentioning of people to be “included in the process of changes” (not exact quote) for those changes to become sustainable.
And third his courageous attempt to bring Regan as the example of a leader who was able to unite nation, at least temporarily, around his pre-election (though ultimately failed) agenda. (Unfortunately Obama backed away from his point very fast under the Demo’s old establishment pressure).

Overall, to begin implementation of those sustainable changes where “people are included” Obama’s election seems much more preferable. However even if elected it would become still only the SYMBOL of those possible and hopeful changes, it would be still TOO FAR from BEEN SUFFICENT to guarantee those changes.
Only we, the People can ultimately guarantee it!

Joan wrote "In choosing a VP, it is not only important to choose one that will help get the nominee elected but to also weigh the future electability of that person, or their ability to take over the prez office whenever necessary."

Using that criterion, I would suggest Feingold, but I would hate to drag him out of the Senate.

David Schuster

IMHO was nearer Kieth Olbermann

which is why the corporation he works for has suspended him indefinitely.

I didn't find his remark "pimping Chelsea out" offensive in the least.

DFA endorsed Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand is a super delegate endorsing Clinton. How sad. Besides Taking back America we need to take back the word progressive from the un-progressive so called  progressives.

Chuck wrote "DFA endorsed Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand is a super delegate endorsing Clinton. How sad."

It's not too edifying, but superdelegates aren't committed.  I I just don't believe that they are going to swing the nomination against whoever becomes the consensus candidate after the state delegate selection process has ended.  If that does happen, there will be huge fireworks on the convention floor a la 1968.

Good morning everyone.

I think Shuster's comment showed really bad form. Enough for a suspension but not enough to be fired over. The guy has done some great journalism. I think at this point the Clinton campaign is stretching for some press. In the meantime, they are now exploiting Chelsea themselves.

I'm waiting to hear from linda b. Must have been a very busy, trilling and exciting day for her. A breakfast fundraiser, a luncheon fundraiser at which she was to also speak, then a adrive to Richmond for dinner and Obama and Clinton and all the other fuss and candidates who love to appear at JJ dinners. I've been to six of them in Florida and it sometimes seems like they will never get to the speaker you really came to hear.

CNN, which had Obama's speech in Richmond, went on until 11:30 or more. Add to that a long drive home, I expect we may not hear from her until later today.

former

>

was that all cut-and-paste?

Fix the blog, HQ.  Sheesh!

36.

I agree with your comment entirely mary.

40. Me neither Paine -- pimping is vernacular to the young for selling I think. And some of us old er fogies too.

45.

Imn2Paine
Sun, 02/10/08

Reply to this
33.


former

>

was that all cut-and-paste?
-----------

Paine, what do you mean?
I don't understand your question, what cut-and-paste?

43.

Imn2Paine
Sun, 02/10/08

R. Anyone know w/not Barack has a position on Federal funding the churches?


The separation of church and state is critical and has caused our democracy and religious
practices to thrive.

“[Conservative leaders] need to understand the critical role that the separation of church and state has
played in preserving not only our democracy, but the robustness of our religious practice. Folks tend to
forget that during our founding, it wasn't the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective
champions of the First Amendment. It was the persecuted minorities, it was Baptists like John Leland...It
was the forbearers of the evangelicals who were the most adamant about not mingling government with
religion, because they did not want state-sponsored religion hindering their ability to practice their
faith...” – Call to Renewal Keynote Address

39.

Paine,

Yes, C-Span is becoming irrelevant and IMO partisan. too many times in recent weeks they have had on the Federalist Society for hours at a time. And now they just ended some conservative convention that went on for several days.

They have also been giving out wrong information. They repeated over and over yesterday how Washington STATE's primary was to be next week, when it is Wash. DC that is next week. They also put out wrong delegate information several times.

You would think we could at least expect correct info from them. And that they would have on as many candidates' speeches (Dem and R) as often as they could at this time.

I do enjoy watching the Senate though on C-span 2, which they must carry whenever they are in session.

40. Forgot the link for Obama's quote on the separation of church and state.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaonFa...

While login/logout each time before/after post, blog reacts differently.

Hey HQ can't find consultant to fix it?!
We'll pay..., lol!

44.

Imn2Paine
Sun, 02/10/08

C-SPAN - has anyone else seen a drift toward irrelevancy (our your drift away from) C-SPAN ?

Not so sure about irrelevancy. They've done some stuff recently that have ticked me off. For one, they've gotten into the habit of 'commercials' (boring ones) pimping (did that on purpose) their own serieses (plural of series??). Also, they were glaringly absent last night from live coverage of Va JJ day dinner and the returns from Nebraska, Washington, Lousiana. And I really miss Brian Lamb on Friday mornings.
I like the web stuff, espec since Comcast took away CSPAN II.

51.

Imn2Paine
Sun, 02/10/08

Reply to this
33.


former

>

was that all cut-and-paste?

-------------
Ok, I see..., lol.

No, that mine...lol, was "cut" from my own head..., lol.

Morning Folks,

Quick hello, then have to do some work.

Huron John, you owe it to yourself to read Obama's book. The answers are there.

Imn2Paine, Obama addresses that relationship of church oriented organizations, federal dollars, and what the problems are with that.  He recognizes that particularly in prisons and dealing with young people that churches can help, that recidivism is far more costly to the government than grants for particular programs. But as is Obama's way, he recognizes the different perspectives and calls for balance and accountability.  Again, read his book.  You'll find the answer in the section on faith.

I guess I have to say it, I'm an Obamaphile.  I like the idea that love is at the end of that word.  He is extraordinary.  His brilliance, honesty, assessment of the problems we are facing and will face is like nothing I've read before.  He is more brilliant, in my perspective than was Eugene McCArthy and other heroes of mine.  We need this man to lead us.

He understands history from the People's History of the United States point of view, a la Howard Zinn.  He points out what our policies have been, where they've been hypocritical and destructive to us and to the countries involved; yet, he believes in the transformative quality this country has offered to people, the chance to build our own lives, the chance to live up to the promises given to us and those we give back.

I sometimes wonder why a young person in his mid 40s, brilliant, successful, able to to anything he wants, honest, and loving would want the terrible job of President, especially after what we've seen these last seven years.  There will be so much to do, so much to repair, so much to work towards, and we have crazies in this country. God forbid that anyone should be denied an assault weapon.

Well, please, consider reading at least parts of his book.  I don't think we've seen his like in my lifetime except for maybe JFK and the hope, brilliance, and vision he offered.

Again, it's wonderful to have voices and perspectives to consider on this blog. Thanks. 

Imn2Paine
Sun, 02/10/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Judging by how many of you are now bitching about this blog...............I think Huron John was right in calling them out......................there is nothing wrong with consructive criticism..........

I say lets get some Indian hi tech people over here...........theyll have it fixed in 10 minutes I betcha...................

 didn't find his remark "pimping Chelsea out" offensive in the least.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Paine,

I find it a statement similar to "nappy headed ho's"..................your thoughts.

cChal - I had to examine my naval about Hillary and the sexist thing, being a woman of her age (a little older) and having come through the same tumultuous sp times. But my main reasons for not supporting her (although I will vote for her if she gets the nomination) are:

1) She got onto my list when Howard was making his great speech at the Dem convention and got a standing O and the CSPAN camera went to Hill and Chelsea thoroughly enjoying glasses of bubbly something till they saw the camera. Chelsea first, then Hill straightened up, as if being caught by the Sunday school teacher. After all Howard had done, they couldn't be gracious enough to applaud him in his one shining moment at that convention.

2) Experience -- what's her experience?? She's been in the Senate longer but during that time Obama was in the IL statehouse -- I consider that a wash. Her time as first lady is roughly equivalent to my time as a surgeon's wife. You don't want me working on your gall bladder for sure. Yes she's a lawyer, but so is he -- a Constitutional scholar at that.

3) To me Hill represents that which we all hate about Washington -- things and people like K Street, Carville, Matalin, Begala, Reid and Pelosi and their tit for tat way of doing things. Isn't it time for something new?

I have examined my naval and I don't see sexism in any of this, although I have worried about it.

Yes WE can.

Thanks for the responses. 

 Interesting link, Annilow.

Gotta head out, as people are hungry for food and adventure here.

yes, we can

55.  Well, because he's already achieved more than he could ever hope for and so he feels blessed to give something back. 

I do think that people do unto others as was done to them and when they've been given benefits they want to pass those benefits on.

The idea that humans have to be forced to do what others want is narrow-minded and counter-productive. 

'nappy headed ho's' is about the same -- gotta admit -- answering for Paine here without his permission. Both one might say at home in the living room -- perhaps not appropriate for network TV? We used to call that PC and PI. 'nappy headed ho's' and 'pimping' are both drawn from the world of hip hop are they not?

Did anyone else catch Broder on MTP this morning saying (paraphrase not a quote) that Howard didn't have the stature to broker an agreement on the eventual nominee? And he said it with a dismissive little chuckle. Here's your chance to unleash some pent up venom, Deaniacs:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff...+s.+broder/

Enjoy!!

I hope mainefem reports about the Maine caucuses today. Remember Eddie in ME? He wrote a diary on Daily Kos about two events - Hillary's and Barack's. Pretty interesting. I think it's still up. Pics too.

This diary is getting buried w/o rec's on KOS -- prolly written by a lobbyist but the message is sound. If you don't want to 'sign the petition' just take a moment to contact your Congressperson and Senators and demand FULL FUNDING FOR PBS. Man I'd be lost w/o PBS - Bill Moyers? NOW? McLaughlin Group? Gwen Ifill? BBC World News? Lehrer? - not to mention Rick Steves, Masterpiece Theatre, Body Electric, etc, etc. Please write NOW.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/10/...

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_in...

https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtm...

Sorry Phil, I can't agree. Money trumps loyalty to your base every time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

sorta agree which is why we need to keep dumping the money into the coffer from the grassroots so there is no conflict

Here's Eddie's diary. He was here on this blog from the beginning.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2...

From John Avarosis at Americablog regarding SuperDelagates:

"...they were created to steal the election in case the party thought your choice was stupid."

cChalfonte

that was directed at the author you were quoting as I was called a way to thaw a water pipe and will not be curt in a future response

there were many legitimate points in what you posted and it was a good argument for Hillary

"she is a DC insider member of the War Party" from me still stands

53. On Broder, wonder if tinyurl works -- if not just google him and scroll down 5 or 6 entries for the email form.

http://tinyurl.com/2l2z5r

Super delegates were created to ease the voting times required to elect the actual people doing the nominating and were added when a few big city mayors weren't getting a vote. Why shouldn't a Congressional Representative or Senator who just got tens of thousands (or even millions in a few cases) votes and will be standing on the ticket with the Presidential candidate? 

these people met in back rooms and decided things for centuries

I see the glass as half full.

I like a Obama/Webb ticket

annilow.....

Thanks for the link. I will do some venting.

Also, I'm wondering why, when Howard expressed an interest in making a run in '12, we come up with all these "lesser" names for VP for instance, who could then run in '12?

I would like to see an Obama/Boxer ticket.

71.

Phil Specht
Sun, 02/10/08

Reply to this
I like a Obama/Webb ticket
=======================

Webb does have a personality that mirrors McCain in many ways

74.

rae hart
=============

She certainly would keep the "we need a woman in the white house" activists energized

1:29 PM EST

Obama is on 60 Minutes tonight:

Feb. 7, 2008

(CBS) Sen. Barack Obama could withstand any last-minute "swift-boat" attacks from Republicans on his race or past drug use because winning the grueling contest for the Democratic nomination will make him the "toughest, baddest candidate on the block," he tells 60 Minutes correspondent Steve Kroft.

Obama was interviewed on Wednesday in Washington for a 60 Minutes report to be broadcast on Sunday, Feb. 10, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

...

Sunday's broadcast also features unique coverage of Obama. 60 Minutes was the only news organization allowed to videotape behind the scenes at Obama's Chicago campaign headquarters on Super Tuesday and to record the candidate and his wife as they watched the election coverage on television.

60.

thanks all for the link to Eddie in ME's diary. Don't miss this one, it is inspiring to read.

Thanks Eddie.

75.

rd

Thanks for the 60 minutes info. We shall be watching for sure.

We watched Blister this morning with his interview of Colin Powell. I gotta say Powell sounded as if he might endorse Obama for the GE. Said he has voted in the past fir Reps. Dems and Inds, always for whomever he thought would be best for the country.

McCain and the Republicans are in more trouble than they can ever envision if this should happen. 

FWIW, since folks are talking VP for Obama, think about an Obama/Richardson ticket.

Shores up the Latino vote...gives Obama foreign policy/diplomacy compadre, is a governor with lots of national/international experience (we don't lose a Dem Senator) and delivers New mexico, and perhaps boosts Florida and Ohio?

The pluses are huge. Despite some lackluster support from Richardson here, I think he will make a good VP for either one, but for Obama more.

rae hart
Sun, 02/10/08

Boxer supports whoever won California, which means she's a vote for Clinton.

Phil Specht
Sun, 02/10/08

No, we need Webb in the Senate! We don't need two Senators on the ticket.

How about Obama/Richardson?

Huron John, you owe it to yourself to read Obama's book. The answers are there.

i've read Obama's book, and I find it as devoid of real substance as his "hope and change" campaign oratory.

Super delegates were created to ease the voting times required to elect the actual people doing the nominating and were added when a few big city mayors weren't getting a vote.

They were created as a last stop to keep the people from deciding the nominee.

Why shouldn't a Congressional Representative or Senator who just got tens of thousands (or even millions in a few cases) votes and will be standing on the ticket with the Presidential candidate?

<>Because they are not chosen by the people in the nominating process. Thye vote of each person who participates in the process is diluted by delegates who represent none but themselves and are free to make deals for their support. It's corrupting to democracy.

<>From Phil's constant advocacy against real democracy, it can be concluded that he is only a "big D" Democrat.

I didn't find his remark "pimping Chelsea out" offensive in the least.

That's because you obviously don't have a daughter and haven't been accused of selling her as a whore. 

annilow....53

I wrote my e-mail to Brooks, but couldn't get it to deliver.

Letter:...
I take offense at your remark and demeanor about Howard Dean's ability to broker an agreement between the eventual candidates.

Howard Dean is an oft-elected Gov., Chr of the Dem. Party, medical Dr., and but for the undemocratic interference, to say the least, by the unrestricted Corp. control over the Media and the Congress, he would be President Howard Dean.

And, just who are you? Perhaps just a lesser tool, a bobbing talking head, a journalst of mediocre biased skills. Not much in comparison is it?

David Sirota on superdelegates - big party bosses. A must read.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2...

Powell sounded as if he might endorse Obama for the GE. Said he has voted in the past fir Reps. Dems and Inds, always for whomever he thought would be best for the country.

Such as......Bush?

Meet the REAL Colin Powell 

New Mississippi law to ban fat people from restaraunts
Bob Toovey : 1 February 2008

If the Mississippi legislature have their way, 'fat' people will be barred from restaurants and other food establishments. A bill has been proposed which would stop restaurants from allowing overweight persons to dine, those who are allowed will have to accept the recording of their BMI.

HOUSE BILL NO. 282

An act to prohibit certain food establishments from serving food to any person who is obese, based on criteria prescribed by the state department of health; to direct the department to prepare written materials that describe and explain the criteria for determining whether a person is obese and to provide those materials to the food establishments; to direct the department to monitor the food establishments for compliance with the provisions of this act; and for related purposes. Be it enacted by the legislature of the state of Mississippi:

From Sandy Szwarc's blog (Junkfood Science)...

Should this pass, scales will appear at the door of restaurants, people with BMIs of 30 or higher won’t be allowed to be served. And to comply with government regulations, restaurants will have to keep records of patrons' BMIs.

You do get the feeling that the level of panic is rising somewhat.

David Sirota on superdelegates - big party bosses. A must read.

It's always pleasant to be agreed with by someone of Sirota's stature!

Dropping in,

Huron John,

What do you mean by "real substance"?  Are you looking for a policy book with programs outlined in detail?  

Have to admit I'm flabbergasted because his book has more hard analysis, facts, overviews of this country and its issues than any politician's I've read to date.   

Obama speech coming up soon on CNN -

Close to high noon here in lovely California - temps in the low 60's

As much as I'd like to see Boxer on a ticket we need her voice here in California. And she's already running for reelection in 2010 - possibly against Arnold. NFW will we allow that to happen.

If John R. Koza gets his way, American voters will never again have to wonder about the workings of the Electoral College and why it decides who sits in the White House.
Koza is behind a push to have states circumvent the odd political math of the Electoral College and ensure that the presidency always goes to the winner of the popular vote.

Basically, states would promise to award their electoral votes to the candidate with the most support nationwide, regardless of who carries each particular state.
"We're just coming along and saying, 'Why not add up the votes of all 50 states and award the electoral votes to the 50-state winner?'" said Koza, chairman of National Popular Vote Inc. "I think that the candidate who gets the most votes should win the office."

The proposal is aimed at preventing a repeat of the 2000 election, when Al Gore got the most votes nationwide but George W. Bush put together enough victories in key states to win a majority in the Electoral College and capture the White House.
So far, Maryland and New Jersey have signed up for the plan. Legislation that would include Illinois is on the governor's desk. But dozens more states would have to join before the plan could take effect.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...

A caucus in ME - in Gardinver (blue collar) just went overwhelmingly to Barack by a huge margin. This is from Daily Kos. This will be interesting to see how ME goes because I think Hillary is quite favored there.

----------
Sirota is not an Obama supporter. I seem to agree with much of what he says. I think he tilted Edwards in fact.

-------
HRC met with Edwards at his home on Thursday. BHO meets with him on Monday in Chapel Hill.

no v in Gardiner

ME caucus diary for anyone interested.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2...

I think the point of cÇ's article may have been missed.  It was not an endorsement of HC, nor was cC endoring her.  It was an attempt to show just how much HC has been vilified, unjustly, w/o saying that she's a perfect candidate.  I think my margins have been blown.  Will try and post this.

Mary vb, thanks for the super delegate article.

And Anni, I think it was you who posted the link to BO's views on religion in which he manages to not say that he supports the separation of church and state.  Again, it's that saying lots of words w/o ever saying anything definitive on very important issues that troubles me.

They both trouble me. I'm a JE supporter.

Developing story...Looks like the writer's strike has ended.

http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/

If you can get it streaming watch the NY Times program on Beppe who's organizing Italy via Meetup.com, just like Howard did in 2003.   

I can't copy and paste from Firefox anymore for some reason.  I'll try to get the link but mac is messed up today. big time.   Anyone else find this scary?   What about all the folks who don't embrace Jesus as a personal savior?  Jews..Muslims, Buddhists etc

Excerpt from a BO speech.  

"You need to come to church in the first place precisely because you are first of this world, not apart from it. You need to embrace Christ precisely because you have sins to wash away - because you are human and need an ally in this difficult journey.:

The blog is just as quirky on my linux box with the new software.  So, it's the site, not us.

seashell :-)
Sun, 02/10/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What BO neds to understand that a portion of human being on this planet have done just fine without a fervent belief in Christ or God for that matter........in fact, some of them are far better humanitarians than most Christians or church goers..............look at Bush...........his greatest philosopher was Christ.............a lot of good that did him of all people................

A litle less religion barrack................how bout more of what you are gonna do to set this country right again....................

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/

I don't have a problem with that speech from Obama - especially since it was given at a Call for Renewal conference. It was on topic for the group.

 BO is really not  progressive in a spiritual sense.  I think Gravel may be, however.  And Kucinich. And Dodd, Dean, Gore, Edwards.  Many christians are still stuck in that sinful pattern...born sinful and die sinful unless you take Jesus as your personal savior.  He sounds like that kind of christian.  This kind of thinking has no place in gov't until and unless Americans are finally able to draw a line of distinction between religion and spiritually.  And even then, prolly not.

If he really believes this, he's rather short-sighted.  If he doesn't, he's just trying to get votes. 

4:03 PM EST

http://www.wsaz.com/home/headlines/15492736.html

Obama & Clinton Race For A Grammy

Posted: 3:41 PM Feb 10, 2008
Last Updated: 3:47 PM Feb 10, 2008
Reporter: Susan Nicholas

...

Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are both up for Best Spoken Word Album of the Year at the Grammys.

Clinton's audio book called, Giving: How Each Of Us Can Change The World is up against Obama's book on tape, The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts of Reclaiming The American Dream.
Clinton already owns two Grammys. Obama has one. Both men have won in the audio book category before. Coming up on Newschannel 3 Tonight, we'll let you know if either man will add another trophy to his shelf.

...

Maine caucus results so far:

http://www.turnmaineblue.com/showDiary.d...

I really thought Hillary would take it. She's done okay in some areas but Obama seems to be cleaning the Clinton machine's clock AGAIN.

Clinton campaign shake up:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2...

If I were running for any public office, I would simply say that my spiritual beliefs are private and so should everyone's elses be.  I see no good reason to start using religion and jesus, except to garner votes or whatever; especially today, with so many misguided zealots running around...(like the guy who read my bumper sticker that jc made that says "Support the Separation of Church and Hate."  He yelled at me, shouting, "I go to church.  I don't want someone cutting off my head." ) 

I would also advise people to read Deepak Chopra...and would be sounded defeated.  Or study Buddhism.  Again, defeated.  

Why would any of you think the CLINTONS would care in the least what Howard would have to say.  they would chew him up and spit him out and then laugh at his corpse.  this is battle to the end and they are like the serial killer in every movie as a kid, every time you think they are dead they come back and kill once again.  howard in the end ran a good campaign in 2004 until the voting start and it all went to H...  I doubt HC cares what his position is and the future of the Dem party is last on her list.

mary vb, now THIS gives me hope.  Do you have a link for this?

"HRC met with Edwards at his home on Thursday. BHO meets with him on Monday in Chapel Hill."

Just so ya'll know, I'll be voting for the dem who gets the nomination. 

Hi all.

Sea, from Annilow's link-Obama speech:

The separation of church and state is critical and has caused our democracy and religious practices to thrive.

“[Conservative leaders] need to understand the critical role that the separation of church and state has layed in preserving not only our democracy, but the robustness of our religious practice.

Folks tend to orget that during our founding, it wasn't the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of the First Amendment. It was the persecuted minorities, it was Baptists like John Leland…It as the forbearers of the evangelicals who were the most adamant about not mingling government with religion, because they did not want state-sponsored religion hindering their ability to practice their faith…” – Call to Renewal Keynote Address

We are a nation of many faiths and of those with no faith at all. The religious practices of all must be respected.  Given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.” - Call to Renewal Keynote Address

Sea I responded but it popped upthread (re. Obama & separation of church/state).

I'm aok with his position on this. 

I didn't find his remark "pimping Chelsea out" offensive in the least.

That's because you obviously don't have a daughter and haven't been accused of selling her as a whore. 

Time magazine link to JRE endorsement story:

http://thepage.time.com/2008/02/10/page-...

Edwards referred repeatedly to himself and Obama as the change that people were voting for and Hillary as the status quo. If he endorses Hillary - well, does that mean he wasn't being earnest?

This is more from the renewal speech.

"But, you know, my Bible tells me that if we train a child in the way he should go, when he is old he will not turn from it. So I think faith and guidance can help fortify a young woman's sense of self, a young man's sense of responsibility, and a sense of reverence that all young people should have for the act of sexual intimacy."

He simply discards other religions, other points of view...and who's going to 'train' the child in the *right*way....How would he get people to go the bible way, or would the state do it?

Too many wars have started over religion and that's one good reason to keep it out of politics. 

We are ready for a genuine spiritual revolution and I HOPE it's coming soon.  LOL

Phil and Annilow and Sea, thanks for your thoughtful remarks.  I'm relieved to feel that I was not misunderstood on that one.

Also, another fellow, don't recall the name but mentioned his reasoning for not supporting Hillary....none of which were sexist rightwing drivel. Thank you.

Sea, btw, the writer/feminist is indeed a Hillary supporter but I was thinking about her remarks more in the context of what women face.

Similarly, Indy remarked awhile back that this election would be about race and gender.  He's right, imo.  If Barack wins and I think he will then he will face the Pug machine and it won't be pretty.

Pat in Colo commented on Barack's thoughts on prisons.....watch for the Pugs to pull a Willie Horton.  When it comes to political campaigning the Pugs have lost all decency. 

"My 19 year old daughter decribes things as "pimp" like we used the term "cool". "<<<

ummm... thanks for sharing, Pug.  Night and day difference.  The tv guy did not mean that it was "cool" that Chelsea was stumping for her mom.  Thanks for playing, though.

Sitka hit that one on the nose. 

"Why would any of you think the CLINTONS would care in the least what Howard would have to say.  they would chew him up and spit him out and then laugh at his corpse. "<<<<<<<<

and when did YOU become a defender of Howard Dean, Pug? 

There has been a lot of speculation about the recent talks between John Edwards and his former rivals. There have been some contacts that have been made public and some that have stayed secret.

There has also been a lot of unsubstantiated reporting about what Edwards might be asking for in these conversations.

It is true that Edwards, before leaving the race, secured pledges from both Obama and Clinton to emphasize fighting poverty and helping the middle class as part of their agendas.

What Elizabeth Edwards thinks about all this is not known.

Aides to Clinton and Obama refused to publicly comment to The Page about the on-going talks.

Obama communications director Robert Gibbs would only say, “John Edwards is a tireless voice for change and working families.”

Similarly, Clinton’s top spokesman Howard Wolfson said, “John Edwards is a champion of millions of Americans who too often are left behind and left out of our national debate.”

Edwards and his advisors could not be reached for comment.

http://thepage.time.com/more-on-edwards-meetings-with-clinton-and-obama/ 

4:37 PM EST

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/Cmt2

By Sam Graham-Felsen - Feb 10th, 2008 at 2:32 pm EST

President Bush attacked Barack Obama on Fox News this morning...

Here's campaign spokesman Bill Burton's response...

Of course President Bush would attack the one candidate in this race who opposed his disastrous war in Iraq from the start.  But Barack Obama doesn't need any foreign policy advice from the architect of the worst foreign policy decision in a generation.

...

Watch for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1E3VnNiJlw

I hope he asks for a VP slot and if BO were smart, he'd offer it.  There are many many voters who wanted JE.  BO shouldn't be too sure he's going to be selected.

A BO/JE ticket is not my preferred, being the JE/BO ticket is....but....I would work and send money to a BO/JE ticket.  W/O JE on the ticket, my time and $ goes local only. 

Just asking them for promises obviously didn't work very well. "They remain stuck in hope and experience. 

JE is prolly also in touch with Gore on a regular basis.  Intriguing, isn't it?  The populists, JE supporters and Gore environmentalists are putting some pressure on the rock stars.  'bout time.

Perhaps we can just start over and let us all vote on a Sunday,  IRV.   But then, the DLC and corps. would lose control. 

Obama is in the lead now and will pick up a good share of the super delegates, so they would not be the determinate factor and John Edwards doesn't carry as much weight with each passing state where supporters go to the polls and choose. Most of his pledged delegates in Iowa will make up their own minds in Denver, but remember, they are real live people who have to win an election within the Party at the District Convention to get there. Clinton and Obama are both reaching out to Edwards delegates in states where they are individuals already named, and aren't waiting for word from John either.

Iowa and other states with viability rules and re-alignment have IRV of a form seashell.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxMy 19 year old daughter decribes things as "pimp" like we used the term "cool".

David Shuster didn't use it that way. Keep trying.

Hey all, just got back from Richmond and our JJ weekend. What a wirlwind.

It was so exciting. Both Obama and Hillary gave absolutely GREAT SPEECHES.

gOT

Yes, Denise, it was generally a fine speech, but we have to someday somehow get out of the this *jesus sin/evil somebody had to "die" to make me OK* primitive thinking.  Going to church does not make one a moral or even good person.  

"The Kingdom of God is within."  He didn't say "within a church." 

The great world spiritual leaders don't think this way, thank goodness. 

Obama draws his inner strength from his religious beliefs seashell and so do you and most others.

It is the shared community values system most in use in America. with American idol and Britney watching a close second. politics comes in third(or maybe buying stuff with politicsa fourth)

must be some kind of innate human draw, because many societies around the world are ordered that way

Yes, Phil, and it would be nice if we all had that...not necessarily caucuses, but certainly some more equitable way to vote and choose, since I've come to believe that the primaries are as important, or more so, than the gen'l.

Certainly 04 was a disaster and  this year is very frustrating and sad if you're a JE supporter. 

gone now. 

4:59 PM EST

Maine caucus so far:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=108855644820400443340.000445d3794716293aa9b&z=7&om=0

http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2008/01/freedom_of_information_in_a_fr.html

You can find a comment from me here.  Even though the New Yorker says this blog is the tenth most visited in the world, there are hardly any comments.  LOL 

.certainly some more equitable way to vote and choose, since I've come to believe that the primaries are as important, or more so, than the gen'l

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```

true IRV takes you to a "winner" with the casting of a single ballot but think about a hand recount of that puppy

UH OH, THE BLOG IS MESSED UP AGAIN.

Just got back from the JJ gala in Richmond. We went up Friday, just to get ready and had dinner with the mayor of Va Beach. Talk about a lady. She is 67 years old and has been elected five times as mayor and the only female mayor in Va Beach ever. My new best friend.

Didn't sleep much at all Friday nite, my mind was a maze of "what do I say?".

Sat a.m. I got to the Marriott in time to help check in attendees to our Women's Caucus Breakfast. I and my friend Phyllis arranged it. But Phyl is so organized, and I am just a helper with some ideas.

The breakfast was great and I got to sit at the head table with Meyera, Anne Holton, the first lady of Virginia, Mary Sue Terry, former Attorney General of Virginia. Meyera's speech was great, she is so funny.

After that, our state Central Committee meeting and then off to the Awards Luncheon

Our son Chris came down from Reston and I met him and my bubby in the lobby. It was so great ot have Chris there. Our daughter Kim, had car trouble and couldn't make it.

There was a great group of people there and many from our city committee were there.

I had a speech prepared but my son chris, who is a writer, looked over it for me and corrected some stuff. Since I am so old, or so he thought, I guess he needs to tell me where I need to pause when speaking.

Luckely, things went fast. Since I am in the 3rd District, I had two speakers in front of me to see what they did. Well they didn't have a  long speech so my son said "wing it" .

Well when the announced my name.I had huge applause, I said what is that about? My women's caucus and city committee stood up.

I was so embarressed.  I just wanted to get up there and get down from the podium. Note: I did not trip, as I thought I would.

I kind of "wingened" my speech and stood with the other winners.

One other lady from the 8th district, Sarah John, go the award from her district committee., she is a huge Dean supporter.

More later. But it was great, if I have to say so.

Sea got your point, loud and clear. I don't think there is anyone here or lurking that doesn't get where you and Mike in NC come from on this topic - but you're only seeing it on one level - yours. And for MIke, his.

And for the millions that see it through a different kind of spirituality - theirs.

Maybe we should explore what kind of reaction a Deepak Chopra (whom I admire very much, by the way) type candidate would get in the general American populous.

What Obama and the majority of candidates, all through our history, have said about "God" should not be diminished because of the rise in the past 20 years or so of the "christian right," I'd be more concerned about a Huckabee type than a candidate that is able to personally embrace a positive belief system. Jimmy Carter did - do you feel he imposed his faith on the rest of America?

Carter shows his faith by action. We have Habitat for Humanity come from his beliefs. Is that a bad thing?

What strikes me most about your posts is that they are mostly just wonderings and reflections - your opinions. And then you drift off into despair mode - almost like you're trying to convince yourself that the end of the world is coming, or something just as nasty. Yeah the world sucks right now - but in so many ways, it's also right. And good and beautiful. Like your dancing.

He will do this; she will do that; he will not do this, etc. How on earth do you or anyone know? I sure don't. Yeah it sucks you won't get to vote how you want in May - though you can still mark your ballot for JE.

I actually feel bad that you have no hope, no optimism for America. And that is certainly valid if that is how you feel.

I don't.

Most of the super delegates in Va are for obama., but I think we should all call the dnc and say "we don't want them picking our candidates".

the campaign of hillary clinton claims that she is the underdog.  it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is, i suppose.

hillary and barbara boxer are related by marriage--hillary's brother and barbara's daughter, as i recall.  'nuff said about an endorsement.

if clinton is the dem nominee against mccain, she'll see cracks in the latino bloc which has heretofore been her firewall.  dem latino male veterans will cross over to the p.o.w. veteran, no doubt about it, and virtually every latino family has some connection to the military.  besides the military advantage, mccain represents a southwestern state with a large latino population, has not antagonized latinos with a xenophobic immigration policy, and has been consistently but not rabidly against abortion rights--all of which draws latino supporters. 

with the repub nomination all but wrapped up, are rethugs crossing over to vote for hillary in the dem primaries?  is this part of the southern white male vote for hillary?

no clinton/obama ticket for me.  whether he's prez or veep, obama loses with clinton as a running mate. 

***********

FLU ALERT............since the last half of january, the seasonal flu has hit late, hard, and quickly.  flu shots are still available, and although the brisbane [australia] strain is not part of the vaccine package, the cdc is recommending the shots for cross-protection.

many thanks to the person who posted a lengthy commentary on the diffs between the canadian and american health care systems.  there's another post--on EFFECT MEASURE--about a british columbia survey of ER patient satisfaction.  contrast that with the headline-making king-harbor ER incident in los angeles.

5:15pm EST 

REPORT FROM BOOTS ON THE GROUND!

Kennebunkport, Maine just went 2 to 1 for Obama!

In 2004 they had a record turnout of about 340 people.

This year they had 854 people!

5:13 pm

The JJ dinner was amazing. at least the speakers.

The venue was the Siegel Center at VCU, a basketball court.

They had most of the bleachers pushed back but the rest were there for people to come in after the dinner to hear speeches. while that was ok, and most were college kids, it was tacky to let them in while dinner was served.and the dinner. well, they used rolls like you get at the merita bread place, four packs for a dollar and get this, no salt and pepper, only water to drink unless you wanted a $30 bottle of wine or $5 beer. the food was aweful.

But the speeches were amazing . Both Clinton and Obama were excellent. I did not hear about Barack winning those primaries but after that I felt sorry for Hil. Not one of the speakers endorsed her. I got to shake her hand but she looked so tired.

In the afternoon, got to hear Bill speak. He was great as usual and went around and talked to everyone. What a guy.

Will talk later. kind of tired.

Love you guys.

HELP!  Please post the TIME of yoour message, including time zone, when you post!

It's nutty to read this blog as it is, but if you have no idear of the order of the posts, it's impossible. 

Local media Maine caucus results -

http://www.wmtw.com/index.html

2:20PM PT

CLASSIC!    I forgot to include the time in my plea for folks to include the time.

LOL~!

5:20pm EST 

linda b thanks for that great report - and I hope to get to meet you in Dulles, VA for Demfest in mid August. Many of us are counting on meeting you!!

Thanks for the link to WMTW, Denise.

Here's another good link for Election Results:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#ME

(Hinty:  If you change the "ME" at the end of the address to the abbreviation of another state, you'll get that state's results.) 

CNN reporting that dear Hillary has replaced her campaign manager...


(5:23 eastern)

Oh fie... I posted the link to Election Results at 5:24pm EST

how is someone supposed to report on something when the posts go in lah lah land.

I think this in intentional. after all this time.

I have Jim Dean's cell tel no........................

CNN reporting that dear Hillary has replaced her campaign manager...


(5:23 eastern)

5:28 PM EST

Obama's Audacity of Hope wins at the Grammys:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080210/NEWS15/80210048

February 10, 2008

ASSOCIATED PRESS

LOS ANGELES -- Barack Obama topped a Clinton in another contest on Sunday — the Grammys.

The presidential candidate beat both former Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter to win best spoken word album for his audio version of his book “The Audacity Of Hope: Thoughts On Reclaiming The American Dream.”

Clinton was nominated for his book “Giving: How Each of Us Can Change the World” and Carter for “Sunday Mornings in Plains: Bringing Peace to a Changing World.” Also nominated was Maya Angelou and Alan Alda.

...

linda b thanks for that great report - and I hope to get to meet you in Dulles, VA for Demfest in mid August. Many of us are counting on meeting you!!

I heard about this from Sarah, I will be there.

Maine - 44% reporting

Obama
962
57%

Clinton
702
42%

linda b - w00t!!

Cya there

Wow - so much to comment on in just the last couple of hours. I just re-watched Hillary and Jackie, a movie about Jacqueline DuPree (the previous YoYo Ma for the non-classical appreciaters among us). Dupree died of MS at 42. I must say after this watching I am feeling much more charitable toward Daniel Barenboim (Dupree's husband.) That still doesn't mean he didn't mess up Rene Pape's Don Giovanni in Berlin, not that I'm prejudiced or anything.

Seashell and anyone else, I posted the Obama link to show he was a firm believer in the separation of church and state. How that somehow got turned into some kind of fundy Bible thumping I've no idea. Will allow tho that Obama HAS to talk about his Christianity due to the emails going around saying he won't pledge the flag, he gets sworn in on a Koran, and by the way he eats babies.

rdorgan - thanks for heads up on 60 Minutes.

linda b == You are a ***********************!!!!!

Did everyone hear Hill replaced her campaign manager?

audreyNC I'm sorry about the bad link on Broder -- I posted a good tinyurl a couple of posts later you could use if you saved your rant.

One more peep on nappy ho's and pimping. I wonder if those objecting so strenuously are around older teens much. I believe that's why I find it not so awful b/c of my students. I used to have a kitty when they referred to things or behavior as being 'gay' in a humorous way -- eg, I still prefer baseball b/c golf is so gay. I used to give long speeches on diversity when I heard it and say it was forbidden in the classroom -- then I heard it on network TV (Gilmore girls) -- I believe it is a postmodern, post-anti-gay kind of thing -- like saying don't get your Irish up -- does that offend anyone?

ttfn!!

PS audreync -- Don't know about Howard as VP -- I fear he's STILL ahead of the times.

Annilow - I remember once an old boss telling me I was acting Italian. I told him to knock if off or else I'd call one of my uncles. (No, I don't have any of those kind of uncles). The look on his face still makes me grin.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mary-mapes...

Texas Time by Mary Mapes

...The Democratic race is going to be more complicated and more unpredictable because both candidates have huge built-in constituencies, good organizations and giddy support. Texas Democrats are almost hysterical at the heart-pounding possibility that the rest of the country will at long last pay attention to what they think. In addition to all that, no one knows how the hell the delegate count is actually going to work.

In typical Texas contrarian fashion, the primary rules read like a DNA chart. On the Democratic side, 228 delegates are up for grabs. But it's not that simple.

The state has both a primary and a caucus -- on the same day. And you can't caucus unless you voted in the primary. On primary night, 126 delegates will be determined based on voting results in each Senate district.

The number of delegates in each district is based on how many Democrats voted in the last two general elections in that district. Got that? Well, there's more.

The selection of another 67 delegates will begin at the caucuses that night and culminate at the state convention in June. The remaining 35 delegates are some kind of unique political life form that will evolve into actual delegates at the National Convention later that summer.

With rules like this, we may not know the division of Texas delegates until sometime after the new President is sworn in. Now that the state finally has its moment in the spotlight, it appears we will slowly drag our rear ends across the stage and reveal our delegate counts only when we are good and ready.

But as Democratic campaign workers and organizers flood the state in the next few weeks, they will find a pool of voters ready to rumble. Texans are ready for their close-up. ...

"Don't forget to have a lot of fun while you're a fightin' for freedom" ~Molly Ivins

 states would promise to award their electoral votes to the candidate with the most support nationwide, regardless of who carries each particular state.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

since when does Florida keep promises (like living within DNC rules?)

Hillary just suffered another major blowout in ME and there's no way for them to spin it differently. Hasn't been called yet but it appears to be a rout for Obama.

Regarding Obama's Christianity: I read a diary at Kos that an older man at one of the Dem. caucuses in ME shouted that Obama was a Muslim. Yes, there are people who believe he is a Muslim. Why the hell it matters is ridiculous to me but there are a lot of nuts in this country that think somehow being a Muslim means you're a terrorist...

Denise LOL - I'll be nice to you from now on. mary vb - I think that's why he is emphasizing his Christianity - Susan Rowe - I've hated TX since they gave us W, not to mention Oler, and if they give Hill the nomination I will be in mourning. (No offense to nice Texans on the blog.)

bbl - dinner and 60 minutes calls.

Yes, there are people who believe he is a Muslim

~~~~~~~~~~~~

which is why I think he needs to open up about his faith to the degree he needs to undo that swiftie attack (remember Clinton supporter Bob Kerrey)

6:08 PM EST

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gene-stone/fox-vs-msnbc-vs-clinton-_b_85907.html

Posted February 10, 2008 | 05:38 PM (EST)

...

Personally, I couldn't make up my mind, until yesterday. My final straw was Clinton's Fox/MSNBC debacle.
Fox news is possible the worst thing ever to happen to media. It's biased, wrong-headed, misogynistic, gay-baiting, racist, and has no sense of right or wrong. And could care less about the truth. And more. And less.
MSNBC, on the other hand, has its creepy Chris Matthews, but also Keith Olbermann. It has the right, it has the left, it has the center. It's actually the best network for news junkies, now that CNN has lost its way.
Hillary, however, has gone to war with MSNBC because one of its reporters, David Shuster, idiotically referred to Chelsea Clinton as "pimped out." The Clintons demanded an apology, and eventually, got one.
Meanwhile, Fox news insults people of color, gays, women, liberals, intellectuals, workers, moderates, and everyone else on a daily basis. It's a network of hate. We all know that.
Yet when it comes to the debate schedule, Clinton has just announced that she will boycott MSNBC. On the other hand, she's more than willing to debate on Fox news, the network that hates the facts.
The message Clinton is sending is: If she were president, it would be okay to denigrate everyone in the country who isn't a rich, white, Christian male. It's okay to lie and to deceive. But insult Chelsea and the game is over.
I think it's great the Clintons are protective of their daughter. It's actually one of their few endearing qualities. But being willing to throw out the rest of us, well, that's going too far. And that's why I've decided, finally, wishy-washy guy that I am, Johnny-come-lately, Mr. On the Fence Forever, to join the Obama campaign. I believe that we are fighting for more than Chelsea Clinton's reputation. We are fighting for the soul of the country. And that includes the soul of the media. And that includes Fox.

Pt. Townsend, WA caucus pictures. Click on Clinton and then Obama. It's hilarious (well, if you support Obama that is).

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th...

I normally don't like it when candidates talk about faith a lot but I agree with Phil that Obama almost has to because of the swift boating.

160. rdorgan - I agree with this article. I think it was in such bad taste what Shuster said and he was rightfully punished but how hypocritical of Clinton to accept a debate on Fox News.

I never cared too much for LBJ's mean-spirited brand of party politics. He broke up the party when he was President.

Here's the snopes write up about the falsehoods on Obama...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/oba...

6:33 pm est

165.

Phil Specht
Sun, 02/10/08

Reply to this

Yes, there are people who believe he is a Muslim

~~~~~~~~~~~~

which is why I think he needs to open up about his faith to the degree he needs to undo that swiftie attack (remember Clinton supporter Bob Kerrey
=====================

Yes and there are those who think all Italians are in the mafia, all Jews are loan sharks, all Germans are Nazis, and all Socialists are atheists, and all muslims are terrorists.

Obama should address the issue, but he has to frame it as "not that there's anything wrong with being muslim.

MAINE 

70% reporting

O58% / C41%

6:45pm EST 

OBAMA--CLUELESS ON NEW ORLEANS

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harry-shearer/what-obama-brought-to-new_b_85555.html

Mr. Obama was passionate in his call for a more robust federal effort in mobilizing the rebuilding of New Orleans, but vague or worse in his actual policy proposals. Full funding of 100-year flood protection? Aside from being identical to Ms. Clinton's policy, it's identical to Bush administration policy. No one at the Corps of Engineers complains they're getting insufficient funding for 100-year protection, which is scheduled for somewhere between 2009 and 2011.

However, that's what New Orleanians had been promised 40 years ago when the defective levee and floodwall system built by the Corps was first envisioned. Clearly, in the wake of the catastrophic failure of that system, some serious questions have had to be asked, and answered. Mr. Obama seemed oblivious to this development.

He referred to "Katrina battering the levees." Does he know (or care) that those levees gave way under surge conditions far less than they were advertised to withstand? (NOTE: Though Katrina was a Cat 5 storm when it made landfall in Mississippi, it was a strong Cat 1 or weak Cat 2 by the time it passed New Orleans) And that the Corps that "knowingly" (according to federal judge Stanwood Duval) built insufficient protection into that system continues to do its work without independent peer review? If so, he gave no indication in today's speech (that I can find so far).

6:45 PM

I am so looking forward to mainefem's report.

This blog was run and managed competently until a few months ago. I know that Sitka and other bleeding hearts take umbrage at my criticising the rocket-scientists-in-charge, but hey, it ain't rocket science.

Buried behind earlier posts at 6:49 pm

172.

MAINE 

70% reporting

O58% / C41%

6:45pm EST 

thanks so much listener. I can go to bed happy for one more night at least. Here's hoping the momentum keeps going right through the big states as well so the super delegates will no absolutely no excuses.

.

6:49 PM EST

I am so looking forward to mainefem's report.

+++

Ditto.

I'm just finishing up watching The Color Purple on BET.  After that, watching Obama interview on 60 Minutes.

170.

I think he needs to open up about his faith to the degree he needs to undo that swiftie attack

Phil,

Bam has done that on numerous occasions -- not at all rallies though. It is in his book "Audacity of Hope" about his Christian religion. He has also mentioned that he was married twenty years ago in his South Chicago church so there is documentation to the fact as well.

165.  Us old fogies still remember that in the sixties African Americans converted to Islam and gave a lot of people a scare.

It's my sense that fundamentalist muslim is a CIA invention, like al Qaeda, in the sense that the participants are supposed to be violently inclined.

Have you noticed that we haven't heard from Louis Farrakan at all lately?  That's one advantage of never getting any press except when you're doing something that scares people. 

I sure hope Edwards turned her down.

---

Clinton replaces campaign manager

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer 16 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Democratic Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton replaced campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle with longtime aide Maggie Williams on Sunday, engineering a shake-up in a presidential campaign struggling to overcome rival Barack Obama's financial and political strengths.
ADVERTISEMENT

The surprise announcement came hours after Obama's sweep of three contests Saturday. The Illinois senator also grabbed the early lead in caucuses in Maine on Sunday. In a fierce and historic fight with Obama for the party nod, Clinton also made a private visit this week to North Carolina to seek an endorsement from former Sen. John Edwards.

Campaign aides said Solis Doyle made the decision to leave on her own and was not urged to do so by the former first lady or any other senior member of the team... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080210/ap_o...

It is time for Hillary to spend more time with her family.

I once took part in a program hosted by the Sisters of Mercy.   They had a number of us (women) speak about our faith journey.  I got to speak the same night as a Muslim woman and she was wonderful~!  She was excellent at delineating the difference between real Islam and fundamentalist "Islam."  And guess what?  It sounded exactly like the difference between true Christianity and fundamentalist "Christianity."  'What a shock.'

7:11pm EST 

Trippi was on "Face The Nation" this morning.

Edwards Aide: Obama Can Win
A Democratic strategist and former aide to John Edwards, Joe Trippi tells Bob Schieffer about the close race for the nomination between candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

watch: http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/ftn/main...

All the major networks have called Maine for Obama.

NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN 

Hey, it's working in order again here!  First time I've seen that in many weeks!

7:14pm EST 

Susan 176.  I wish Trippi would just keep quiet.  He's not especially good luck. 

7:15pm EST 

LindaB~!!   Hey!  How's it going?

How do you think it's going to go in Virginia? 

Barack's margin in victory in ME is continuing to grow. He's now at 59% to Clinton's 41%.

Nice and unexpected victory. If Barack wins this Tuesday - I just don't see how Hillary can gain any momentum to win Junior Tuesday.

7:22

Denise:

Thank you for that great response, most of which I already agree with.  :-)

I think it's OK, but not the best idea, to mention church or god or prayer.  What I think is not OK is to mention Jesus, which I think might offend many good people.  We have a  lot of RW Jesus zealots working to determine policy and I don't believe they should be encouraged.  It might also be helpful to not mention the bible...again, so as not to encourage *bible thumpers.*

I respecfully disagree that BO has to defend himself but if he chooses, I wish he'd talk more generally instead of using words like Jesus and bible.  We are not founded as a *Christian* nation in the usual sense of the word.  

Personally, I think Jesus was one of the great spiritual masters of all time and the bible is interesting.  What's been purposefully omitted from the bible is even more interesting.  

Keep both out of the campaigns, please. 

188,'

7:3obama ,,,, big time

got drat it now.

OBAMA BIG TIME IN VA,

SO WHY THE CRAP CAN' T U PUT IT IN ORDER.

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

FOR GODS SAKE.

obama will win in virginia.

Obama and Clinton both did good interviews on sixty minutes. next up the voters in three more jurisdictions get to decide

I think the longer this race goes the more Democrats get organized and the better these candidates get and even Clinton with her high negatives can beat McCain.

I'll still help the Obama campaign in Wisconsin this week.

And Denise,

After Howard lost, many of us felt despair.  Then we voted in 06 and the dems act neutered by bush and again, I, perhaps along with others, felt despair and frustration.

So I HOPED for Gore, then Kucinich, then Dodd, then Edwards and we now have HC and BO.  Yes, I'm in a political despairing-like wasteland...grieving...while most of you are happy with BO.  I can't get there yet.  Too many losses in too short a time.

But I'll vote for him if he's the nominee. 

************************************** 

The rest of my life is content and interesting and very active and loving.  So I may just have to leave the political scene  for awhile.  I certainly don't want to be the blogger who continually rains on the BO parade.  I think Huron does it better anyway.  :) 

I've finished my website about my new business but don't know if it's appropriate to post the link here...too self-serving?  Besides the business, I'm creating pages showing my paintings.

Great report, linda b.

 I just don't see how Hillary can gain any momentum to win Junior Tuesday.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

she will use her California template and has thousands of paid staffers that know their job by now, and with each vote you get to concentrate your effort with higher staff density, and you get rid of dead wood, plus it is now or never, so will be very competitive

I know that Sitka and other bleeding hearts take umbrage at my criticising the rocket-scientists-in-charge, but hey, it ain't rocket science.

I don't take umbrage......

 I just don't see how Hillary can gain any momentum to win Junior Tuesday.

The Clinton's have been living on early ballots while Obama has been winning the turnout vote. The later the primaries, the less early ballots will keep Hillary afloat.

Hi Folks,

Excerpts from The Audacity of Hope on faith:

p. 320 "When my mother remarried, it was to an Indonesian with an equally skeptical bent, a man who saw religion as not partiularly useful in the practical business of making one's way in the world, and who had grown up in a country that easily blended its Islamic faith with remnants of Hinduism, Buddhism, and ancient animist traditions.   During the five years that we would live with my stepfather in Indonesia, I was sent first to a neighborhood Catholic school and then to a predominantly Muslim school; in both cases, my mother was less concerned with me learning the catechism or puzzling out the meaning of the muezzin's call to evening prayer than she was with whether I was properly learning my multiplication tables.

 "And yet for all her professed secularism, my mother was in many ways the most spirtiually wakened person that I've ever known. She had an unswerving instinct for kindness, charity, and love, and spent much of her life acting on that instinct, sometimes to her detriment.   Without the help of religious texts or outside authorities, she worked mightily to instill in me the values that many Americans learn in Sunday school: honesty, empathy, discipline, delayed gratification, and hard work. She raged at poverty and injustice, and sorned those who were indifferent to both.

p322 "Most of all, she possessed an abiding sense of woner, a reverence for life and its precious, transitory nature that could properly be described as devotional. During the course of the day, she might come across a painting, read a line of poetry, or hear a piece of music, and I would see tears well up in her eyes.... She saw mysteries everywhere and took joy in the sheer strangeness of life." 

7:47

woner should be wonder

5:13 pm

The JJ dinner was amazing. at least the speakers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

linda

write it up and save it on a note pad and post the stories when you are up top or stuck at the bottom

this broken blog is getting ridiculus, and I want to hear about the your award luncheon and the breakfast too

The horse race has displaced the war and the death of more of our own and theirs.

FOCUS | US Allies Go on Strike in Iraq's Diyala Province
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021008Y.shtml
Steve Lannen, writing for McClatchy Newspapers, reports from Baghdad: "Members of US-allied citizen brigades, which are credited with helping to tamp down violence in many parts of Iraq, went on strike Friday in Diyala province, alleging that the provincial police chief there is running a death squad."
 

Pat you need to read Mario Coumo's book

Pat

thanks for bringing those passages to the blog and for sure it is fair use

Iowa is now gearing up within the Party for the two person fight at the county conventions and we at the Central Committee are debating moving our District Convention to a larger venue because we expect everyone there will think their vote important and they will be right  (some years a candidate drops out by May that had large support)

these are delegates elected at the county level out of the allocation that occurred at the caucus

Thanks Pat.  Next time I hit the bookstore, I might pickup Obama's book.  I saw it was in paperback.

BTW  8:04pm EST

Hiding Bad News Among Other Bad News

If you've got bad news to put out that you've been looking for the right time to release, sometimes the right time is sandwiched between two other pieces of bad news. So if you're Hillary Clinton, and you're looking to replace your campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle, a good time to do it would be after a Saturday, when you lose the Washington state, Nebraska, and Louisiana primaries/caucuses, and shortly before a Tuesday when you'll probably lose at least two out of three among Maryland/Virginia/Washington, D.C. ...

A day like a Sunday, when you lose the Maine caucus...

Do you see the times before and ahead of mine HQ?

HQ = Is there a plan in place to attack this pressing problem?

8:07

If I were a Clinton supporter I wouldn't see a shakeup of her campaign as bad news. If they end the triangulation and the poll driven stances and just focus on letting Hillary campaign as herself they still have a shot at the nomination and without that were going nowhere fast.

Edwards is big time lawyer ($$) connected to all the old Democratc hierarchy of Washington (Including the DLC) and other lobbyiest.  My guess is Hillary will sell the VP selection for his endorsement.  He will bite seing it has only aveneue to the Presidency.

Pat in Colorado

(of course, your post has/(must have) jumped at least one to 207

Beautiful words from Barack!

Thanks again.

HQ

how 'bout you keep us up to date

DAILY

on the progress of restoring BFA to soundness.

Its kind of funny to see HC try and change the debate to electability; when most polls show BO beating JM by a greater margin.

The Call for Renewel speech that everyone is referencing was given in June, 2006. I have been a member and supporter of Sojourners and Call for Renewel for about 20 years. JE, BO and HC have all participated with founder Jim Wallis in activites sponsored by Sojourners. Sojourners started in the early 70's to discuss religious and political issues (mainly VN).

Wallis truly beleives in the seperation of church and state because only this seperation allows all religions to flourish.
www.sojo.net

where the heck did my post go?
8:29 est

I liked Alicia Keys'  hair style as she accepted her Grammy , and I was think the "artist formerly know as" is more iconic than his musical style as he reflected James Brown. (can I comment like that or is it sexist)

the pundits would all go nuts if Hillary did something a little edgy with her hair wouldn't they?

is hip hop morphing back into the r&b roots when it discovered rock energy,styling the fifties?

(and here I go again commenting on something as a casual observer, but if the sixties scares people go back to the fifties Monica)

8:26 PM EST

The downeasterners of Maine did it -- wondering when mainfem will check in here to give her on the ground perspective.

(btw - I wonder if TK, PK, JK and DP all campaigning there had an impact ?)

Hillary might be desperate enough right now for Edwards supporters she would make a pretty good offer, I don't see Edwards taking it.

I'm stuck at the bottom, other current posters are in the middle and just a little ways up and if you can follow this as a coherent conversation they need your comprehensive skills as an analyst following the delegate selection process and current hard count.

paine do you have a feed to the foo fighters concert outside the Grammys?

new thread. I so totally cheated, sorry. Little rusty at the firsties thing. I logged on and there it was, 0 comments and I couldn't resist.

216.

Phil Specht
Sun, 02/10/08

Let us make sure Edwards' Iowa supporters go to Obama.

Edwards is big time lawyer ($$) connected to all the old Democratc hierarchy of Washington (Including the DLC) and other lobbyiest.  My guess is Hillary will sell the VP selection for his endorsement.  He will bite seing it has only aveneue to the Presidency.

Too little too late. And showing how low the Clintons have sunk is all it will demonstrate. 

Here's a very partial critique of some of the quotes in "The Audacity of Hope."   None of the critique is mine; I'm simply the poster.

******************* 

The American people, Obama argues, harbor only modest expectation of their government (p.7), reflecting little concern (by Obama’s account) with traditional left goals of social justice and equality. There’s no room in Obama’s downsized image of popular “hopes” for the citizenry’s widespread disgust at savage socioeconomic inequity in the United States.

THE NOBLE CONSTRAINTS OF BIRTH AND RANK AND THE “INTOXICATING DANGER” OF EQUALITY

 ...the passage where the “progressive” Obama praises the United States’ founders for “recognize[ing] that there were seeds of anarchy in the idea of individual freedom, an intoxicating danger in the idea of equality.” If “everybody is truly free, without the constraints of birth or rank and an inherited social order,” Obama asks, then “how can we ever hope to form a society that coheres?” (pp. 86-87)

How that’s for openly embracing authoritarian class rule?

 EMPATHY FOR THE OPPRESSOR

 Then there’s the section where Obama claims that the monumental war criminal, arch-authoritarian and hyper-plutocrat George W. Bush “and the people around him” – a reference that would especially include the filthy rich crypto-fascist Dick Cheney – “to be pretty much like everyone else.” The Bush-Cheney gang-bangers are “possessed,” Obama says, “of the same mix of virtues and vices, insecurities and long-buried injuries as the rest of us.”

 Such veterans shouldn’t harbor bitterness towards their war-evading superiors, Obama says. He argues that “those who are struggling – or those who claim to speak for those who are struggling” are not “freed from trying to understand the perspectives those who are better off.”  The duty to feel “empathy,” he feels, is shared by the “the powerless” and “the oppressed” as well as “the powerful” and “the oppressor” (p. 68).

 Slaves need to understand and empathize with their masters.

 At the same time, Obama feels, poor Americans need to understood how well off and “free” they are compared to their more truly miserable counterparts in Africa and Latin America (pp. 54, 150).  Obama deletes less favorable contrasts with Western Europe and Japan, the most relevant comparisons, where dominant norms tolerate slighter levels of poverty and inequality than what is found in the militantly hierarchical U.S.

 WHITEWASHING HISTORY

Obama is impressively committed to whitewashing the American past in accord with dominant national doctrine. He cites early Americans’ purported faith in “self-reliance,” “hard work,” and “free will” (p. 54)as the source of the early Republic’s “free market” development, ignoring slavery’s role in (a) violating the nation’s proclaimed republican virtues and (b) laying critical capital-accumulationist foundation for the early expansion of the American “free market” empire. He writes warmly of the “grand compromise” (p.75) found in the Constitutional bargain between the Northern and the Southern states – the one that approved and empowered black chattel slavery as the core, defining and federally protected political-economic institution of the U.S. South. He deftly inserts “property rights” (p. 86) into his list of the great “individual liberties” guaranteed by the Founders, deleting a critical conflict that shaped the early republic: that between human rights and property rights, the latter referring to the special, structurally super-empowered citizenship rights granted to the relatively small part of the population that owned large amounts of property.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=11936

 

Seashell's post on the critique of Obama's book.

The only way  we can critically think about what others say is to read it ourselves.  From my perspective, this is distortion, out of context quotes and  slanted and misleading interpretations, and I would say utterly dishonest, much like Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter or Fox Noise type of reporting.  It's not correct, but the only way as individuals we can judge this is to read the original.

Phil, I 'm not familiar with Cuomo's book.  What is it and why should I read it?

I grew up in the Upper peninsula of Michgian with its nine month winters.  There was nothing to do but keep warm and read, and so reading has saved my life.  When I die, I want my ashes scattered in a library. 

New Thread   awhile ago  

9:25pm  EST