Dean is first off the hop.

48.

Phil -

Good, here's another one:

1) what does Obama's campaign intend to help draft in Congress, or through a political movement (or attach to one already existing), to get rappers and the hip-hop industry to clean up it's language and demeaning attitude toward women ? 

(ie. I know that I can opt to buy a hip-hop artist's album that is a clean version but it seems strange that other forms of music seem to have anything vulgar is the exception, rather than nearly the norm)

It seems Barack has already started to address the rappers language issue and in light of the Imus issue, that's the only fair thing to do IMO.

Obama has addressed that already, I think, better than most.

He has to chart a careful course of being a black leader while not being the "black candidate". Because if his opponents can pigeonhole him that way they are halfway to defeating his nomination. 

Edwards is striking at the root causes of the realities of urban communities that give rise to the music.

an elevated discussion of that debate would be usefull for the country

Phil -

Good point  - He has to chart a careful course of being a black leader while not being the "black candidate".  I think Obama's doing a good job of balancing himself (and I'm glad Edwards is addressing the issue too).

The funny thing about hip-hop music is that many buyers/listeners are young white males. IMO the tract sounds and messages could still be maintained (I like many artists like Nas, Kanye West and and one early group in particular, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, latter was first rap/hip-hop group ever to get inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, last year) but the deragatory, demeaning stuff left out.

Fundamental Ignorance

http://www.kunstler.com/mags_diary21.html

Tom Friedman, celebrated New York Times columnist and author of The World is Flat, riffed on (or around) the issues of climate change and energy in that newspaper's Sunday Magazine this week ("The Power of Green"), and managed, in the process, to misunderstand just about every implication these conjoined problems present. Friedman's specious thinking is symptomatic of exactly what is wrong with our public discussion of these matters generally, and their presentation in mainstream media in particular.

 Friedman gives no indication that he understands the fundamentals of the global oil situation. He writes:

     People change when they have to -- not when we tell them -- and falling oil prices make them have to. That is why if we are looking for a Plan B for Iraq -- a way of pressing for political reform in the Middle East without going to war again -- there is no better tool than bringing down the price of oil.

    This is a fascinating statement. It's predicated on the idea that the US can achieve "energy independence," which is itself predicated on the further idea that we can accomplish this by switching out gasoline for ethanol. This is such an elementary error in thinking that it would be funny if it wasn't the lead story in the flagship of the mainstream media. As a Pennsylvania farmer put it to me in February: "It looks like we're going to burn up the last remaining six inches of Midwest topsoil in our gas-tanks." Friedman's statement also ignores the facts that running cars on ethanol would make no material difference in the amount of carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere, or that ethanol is 20 percent less efficient than gasoline, meaning we would have to produce and use that much more of the stuff just to stay where we are.
     Where climate change is concerned, this is a variation of the "Red Queen syndrome" (from Alice in Wonderland) in which one has to run faster and faster to stay in place. It also fails to take into account the tragic ramifications of setting up competition between food for humans and crops for motor fuels just at the point when a growing scarcity of oil-and-gas-based soil "inputs" (as well increasing climate problems in the grain belt) will drastically lower American crop yields. The symptoms of this unintended consequence have already begun to present themselves -- for instance, January's food riots in Mexico, which resulted from Mexican corn being sold to American ethanol distillers rather than Mexican cornmeal millers, who couldn't match their bids.

More from Kunstler (same link as 5

At the heart of Friedman's thesis is his notion that the current incarnation of "the American Dream" is a good thing and can continue. By American Dream he apparently means membership in the Happy Motoring Utopia, with all its accessories, furnishings, and usufructs -- the system broadly known as suburban sprawl. Here's the truth, Tom: suburban sprawl is a living arrangement with no future. It was a tragic mistake to squander the post World War Two wealth of our society to build it. It will come to represent an immense liability for this country's future, as it loses both monetary and practical value. And we will have to make comprehensive arrangements for living differently, if we want to continue this project of American civilization.
      A telling omission in this article, by the way, is any mention of public transit. It's especially significant because the one thing we really could do right away to reduce our oil consumption would be to get passenger rail going again in this country. But this blind spot in Friedman's vision is only the flip side to his stupid belief that we can just keep all the cars running by other means.
     Tom Friedman has no idea what the implications are of all these things. His fatuous advice to the nation -- served up by a confused and cowardly Times editorial staff -- will only spur more delusional thinking, which is, of course, the last thing we need. The showcasing of Friedman's article may represent an inflection point in the fate of the mainstream media -- the moment when it demonstrates most clearly its failure to make current events comprehensible, the moment when its lost legitimacy is finally recognized. That legitimacy has been passing to the Internet, where commentators have no advertisers to pander to and no need to defend any status quo.
     

Looking at the Fortune 500 and shaking my head.

Wal-Mart is number one again, five years of the last 6.

I live in Rochester, the home of Kodak and Xerox (although Xerox moved their HQ to Connecticut in the 60s, most of the company is still right here in Rochester, including US HQ). There was a time, and not that long ago, when Xerox and Kodak were both Fortune 50. When I began consulting at Xerox -- 1985 -- they were 38th on the list and Kodak was 28th.

As I worked through my advertising and corporate communications career, I remember revising my sales pitch downward from "our clients are Fortune 50s," to "our clients are Fortune 100s."

Fast forward to this year's list. Kodak is now at 182, dropping from 155 last year. Xerox is at 145, dropping "only" two spots from last year. Meanwhile, I now work for JC Penney as a commissioned salesperson. Our commission rates were just slashed and burned to make room for the minimum wage expenditure, so I will have to absorb about a $2k pay cut this year on a job that already barely paid a living wage. However, their benefits are excellent and, dig this, they come in at 116, up from 118 last year.

My hometown is rapidly turning into a version of Flint, Michigan, and all my local government seems to do about it is engage in petty personal bickering. The campaign I am working on has already been assailed -- over nothing much -- by the local GOP. "Childish" is about the most charitable descriptor I can come up with for how people with power act around here.

U.S. Attorneys and Voting Rights: The New Watergate

http://www.alternet.org/rights/50598/

The Bush administration is shocked, shocked, that the firing of a few U.S. attorneys has caused such a stir in Washington. After all, the Oval Office says, the President can choose whomever he wants to prosecute federal cases. But the Supreme Court declared in Berger v. United States that a prosecutor's job is to see that justice is done, not to politicize justice. The mass ouster of the top prosecutors had more to do with keeping a grip on power -- by manipulating voting rights -- than with doing justice. And like the Watergate scandal, the evidence points to a cover-up.

This cover-up revolves around efforts by the Bush administration to disenfranchise African-American voters in communities where the vote would likely be close. George W. Bush came to power in 2000 by a razor- thin margin awarded him by the Supreme Court. During the 2004 election, there were allegations of attempts to disenfranchise African-American voters, especially in Ohio. Yet no voting discrimination cases were brought on behalf of African-American or Native American voters from 2001 to 2006.

Instead, the administration instigated efforts that would further disenfranchise these voters. U.S. attorneys were instructed to prosecute "voter fraud" cases. "Voter fraud" has "become almost synonymous with 'voting while black,'" the New York Times' Paul Krugman observed. Also, Republican lawmakers enacted voter ID laws which established new hurdles for voters to jump.

Former staffers in the Justice Department's civil rights division said they were "repeatedly overruled when they objected to Republican actions, ranging from Georgia's voter ID law to Tom DeLay's Texas redistricting, that they believed would effectively disenfranchise African-American voters," Krugman added.

The administration's effort to prosecute voter fraud is a sham. The New York Times reports that voter experts have found "widespread but not unanimous agreement that there is little polling place fraud." However, the Election Assistance Commission, a federal panel charged with election research, skewed the findings of the voter experts.

http://www.dailymail.com/story/Life/2007041618/Once-taboo-interracial-marriage-now-flourishing-in-the-U-S/

For most of U.S. history, in most communities, such unions were taboo.

It was only 40 years ago -- on June 12, 1967 -- that the U.S. Supreme Court knocked down a Virginia statute barring whites from marrying nonwhites. The decision also overturned similar bans in 15 other states.

Since that landmark Loving v. Virginia ruling, the number of interracial marriages has soared; for example, black-white marriages increased from 65,000 in 1970 to 422,000 in 2005, according to Census Bureau figures. Factoring in all racial combinations, Stanford University sociologist Michael Rosenfeld calculates that more than 7 percent of America's 59 million married couples in 2005 were interracial, compared to less than 2 percent in 1970.

Coupled with a steady flow of immigrants from all parts of the world, the surge of interracial marriages and multiracial children is producing a 21st century America more diverse than ever, with the potential to become less stratified by race.

"The racial divide in the U.S. is a fundamental divide. . . . but when you have the ‘other' in your own family, it's hard to think of them as ‘other' anymore," Rosenfeld said. "We see a blurring of the old lines, and that has to be a good thing, because the lines were artificial in the first place."

The boundaries were still distinct in 1967, a year when the Sidney Poitier film "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" -- a comedy built around parents' acceptance of an interracial couple -- was considered groundbreaking. The Supreme Court ruled that Virginia could not criminalize the marriage that Richard Loving, a white, and his black wife, Mildred, entered into nine years earlier in Washington, D.C.

But what once seemed so radical to many Americans is now commonplace. Many prominent blacks -- including Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, civil rights leader Julian Bond and former U.S. Sen. Carol Moseley Braun -- have married whites. Well-known whites who have married blacks include former Defense Secretary William Cohen and actor Robert DeNiro.

Last year, the Salvation Army installed Israel Gaither as the first black leader of its U.S. operations. He and his wife, Eva, who is white, wed in 1967 -- the first interracial marriage between Salvation Army officers in the United States.

Opinion polls show overwhelming popular support, especially among younger people, for interracial marriage.

...

lockdown on Virginia Tech campus - gunman on the loose. prayers for no casualties.

Friedman squandered his credibility in Iraq. Now he's just another example of how really smart people can also be really stupid. 

lockdown on Virginia Tech campus - gunman on the loose.

Thank goodness we live in a country where every nut with a grudge can get a gun. 

Are mobile phones wiping out our bees?
Scientists claim radiation from handsets are to blame for mysterious 'colony collapse' of bees

London Independent | April 15 2007
Geoffrey Lean and Harriet Shawcross

It seems like the plot of a particularly far-fetched horror film. But some scientists suggest that our love of the mobile phone could cause massive food shortages, as the world's harvests fail.

They are putting forward the theory that radiation given off by mobile phones and other hi-tech gadgets is a possible answer to one of the more bizarre mysteries ever to happen in the natural world - the abrupt disappearance of the bees that pollinate crops. Late last week, some bee-keepers claimed that the phenomenon - which started in the US, then spread to continental Europe - was beginning to hit Britain as well.

The theory is that radiation from mobile phones interferes with bees' navigation systems, preventing the famously homeloving species from finding their way back to their hives. Improbable as it may seem, there is now evidence to back this up.

Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) occurs when a hive's inhabitants suddenly disappear, leaving only queens, eggs and a few immature workers, like so many apian Mary Celestes. The vanished bees are never found, but thought to die singly far from home. The parasites, wildlife and other bees that normally raid the honey and pollen left behind when a colony dies, refuse to go anywhere near the abandoned hives.

The alarm was first sounded last autumn, but has now hit half of all American states. The West Coast is thought to have lost 60 per cent of its commercial bee population, with 70 per cent missing on the East Coast

Rosie Prepares To Strike Back For 9/11 Truth
Insider Scoop: Ground zero heroes Impacted by toxic dust cover-up to appear on The View Tuesday

Prison Planet | April 16, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

Contradicting reports that Rosie O'Donnell is set to cease her vocal stance against the Bush administration and the 9/11 cover-up, we can exclusively reveal that Rosie is preparing to strike back by featuring interviews with 9/11 heroes and first responders, themselves victims of a government cover-up that allowed them to breathe deadly toxic dust at ground zero.

A headline on the Drudge Report today reads, 'ROSIE: NO MORE 'IMPEACH BUSH ' TALK ON THE 'THE VIEW', which suggests O'Donnell is backing down from her controversial comments that led top Neo-Con free speech haters to call for her dismissal. The story links to Rosie's blog in which she promises to "talk about other things." We now know that those "other things" include the government's criminal cover-up of the ground zero toxic dust scandal that is now killing 9/11 heroes in large numbers.

Rosie is purportedly sick and tired of the very parties who covered-up the toxic dust scandal then claiming the mantle of 9/11 victims in order to smear anyone who asks questions about the events of that day. O'Donnell is aware of the fact that the majority of the victim's family members now believe there is an ongoing cover-up surrounding 9/11.

radio frequency inventory tracking

On-star?

cell phones have been around awhile, what has changed in the last year or two

have there been tracking chips put into all new cars?

the bee disappearance thing is recent 

sitka, some of my son's frat brothers live in that dorm.

hope they are safe.

glad to see u back

13.

I don't know about cell phones wiping out bees, I hope not.

Cell phone towers are also wiping out many birds, like carrier pigeons that fly into them.

if the magnetic fields reverse polarity alot more than honey bees will be wiped out and the fields are jumping around a bit up north so that is maybe more likely a navigation aid to them that is disturbed

they released the first GMO version of alfalfa last year and Monsanto will breath a big sigh of relief if it is the cell phones

pollinators are very important for many food crops

the bee problem doesn't just effect bees

7 to 8 more casualites at va tech.

17.

Wind farms worry me for the same reason. I have seen a few beautiful and rare dead birds at the bases of large buildings in my city. I hate to think about the effects of wind farms that are poorly situated along migration routes.

go rosie, get rid of the neocon on your show who now works for faux news

linda b
Mon, 04/16/07
11:04 am
__________________________________________________________________________

Hope your son is alright.......................I wonder what your Dad would think of the state of things these days? cheers

6.

Huron John
Mon, 04/16/07
9:55 am

More from Kunstler (same link as 5

At the heart of Friedman's thesis is his notion that the current incarnation of "the American Dream" is a good thing and can continue. By American Dream he apparently means membership in the Happy Motoring Utopia, with all its accessories, furnishings, and usufructs -- the system broadly known as suburban sprawl. Here's the truth, Tom: suburban sprawl is a living arrangement with no future. It was a tragic mistake to squander the post World War Two wealth of our society to build it. It will come to represent an immense liability for this country's future, as it loses both monetary and practical value. And we will have to make comprehensive arrangements for living differently, if we want to continue this project of American civilization.
---------

...lol, it's just funny to watch while one confusion is been offered to substituted by another one.

It's truth, of course, that "suburban sprawl is a living arrangement with no future".

However, it's far from the truth to define it, (the same as Iraq war), as just a "mistake". At least one have to ask question FOR WHOM it's might be a mistake?
No, it was NOT a mistake, FOR corporate elites. It was concise and deliberate plan to extract billions of $$ of "monetary value" from "post World War Two wealth".

It DID however squander that wealth FOR the hundreds of millions of ordinary Americans.

If author really believes that "we will have to make comprehensive arrangements for living differently", then he should forget about continuation of "this project of American civilization" and look more carefully into lifestyle of "old" Central European countries or even further East.

former

I have to say I agree with that analysis amost 100%

Bush delivered a trillion dollars to his base with the Great Heist tax cut.

he has been very successful at what he set out to do

that is why he is

worst President ever

24.

Phil Specht
Mon, 04/16/07
11:37 am


worst President ever
----------

!!!
we need not keep forgetting..."FOR WHOM?"

The implications of the spread are alarming. Most of the world's crops depend on pollination by bees. Albert Einstein once said that if the bees disappeared, "man would have only four years of life left".

we live in a society that has been "ordered" by an economic scheme to maximize not just corporate profits, but short term profits seen through the lens of quarterly reports

very little of our current production and delivery of food is rational on any other terms as an example

it could maintain a semblense of fairness when the profits were domestic and could be recycled through tax policy

This lack of accountability to the masses is what I addressed through my proposal to tax the movement of money, so the other Great Heist of our means of production through globalization doesn't just happen as an unintended consequence and with no chance to recoup the cost

don't tell fred , but I am headed out to vaccinate heifers

bbl

Hope your son is alright.......................I wonder what your Dad would think of the state of things these days? cheers

mike, chris is working in reston , va now and is ok, but he has frat bros in both those dorms.

now they say 1 dead, 17 injured.

this is so sad, tech is a usually safe campus.

but in an area of va that is really poor. there is a lot of locals that don't like the students atmosphere there. we shall see what caused this.

mike, my late dad was not at all political. in fact being a military man for 30 years, he was quite physically abusive to our family. came to terms with that quite a while ago.

so he probably would shrug and say nothing.

I think the military and being in a bombadier plane and bombing germany in world war 2 kind of made him not think about what violance can harbor.

my mom was a saint, really, she was my lifeline.

military brass speak up on global climate change - releasing their findings on cspan right now. let's hope this idiot administration and the naysayers listen to them. more high level support for Al Gore!

http://www.boston.com/

The field of elite women headed down Union Street in Ashland today. (Globe Staff Photo / John Tlumacki) TODAY'S WINNERS

Men: Robert Cheruiyot; 2:14:13

Women: Lidiya Grigoryeva; 2:29:18
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Wheelchairs:

Men: Masazumi Soejima; 1:29:16

Women: Wakako Tsuchida; 1:53:30

29.

Phil Specht
Mon, 04/16/07
11:57 am


we live in a society that has been "ordered" by an economic scheme to maximize not just corporate profits, but short term profits seen through the lens of quarterly reports
....
This lack of accountability to the masses is what I addressed through my proposal to tax the movement of money, so the other Great Heist of our means of production through globalization doesn't just happen as an unintended consequence and with no chance to recoup the cost

---------

Yes, of course "the devil" NOT in a profit per-se (and moreover NOT in its AMOUNT) but rather TOWARD WHOSE INTERESTS it's been applied.

I'm not sure I understand precisely your tax proposal, but words "lack of accountability to the masses" immediately wake up image of some (any!) kind of "the highest" authority who we (masses) should somehow (how?, through this tax proposal?) to hold accountable.

Again this apparent GAP between "we"/"us" (masses) and "them" (those who should demonstrate accountability) won't let, I think, this proposal to work.

The issue, imo, with the GAP itself..., it must be eliminated, imo.

brass are making it very clear that global climate change is a national security issue. get your heads out of your arses, naysayers in Congress - or out of Bush's I should say.

I heard that Kyle Sampson will be testifying before the committee again today to clear up a few things before Gonzales appears tomorrow. whew - another busy week, shining a light on the cockroaches in Bush's cabal.

listening to Schumer I got a kick out of his comment that Pat Leahy is their tech expert on the committee - Dana (? - Bush's spokesperson) made a joke about that last week when he madwe the comments about 'lost' email, implying it was unlikely he knew much about it. he does - he's been in the forefront of making the net and technology usable for the average Vermonter/VT businesses for years in a variety of ways. he's also been acknowledged for having the best Congressional website - in ease of use, information provided, appearance and level of use (hits) by his constituents and others. love you Pat! stay after this bunch of thugs.

Linda*in*sfnm,

You might be interested in this:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20070416/NEWS01/304160021/

Vic Wulsin has announced that she will run for the 2nd Congressional District Seat, against Jean Schmidt.  As this article states she came within 1% of beating Schmidt in 2006, hopefully she will knock her out the next time!

And Steve Driehaus is going to run against Steve Chabot in District 1,

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070327/NEWS01/303270029/-1/all

There are rumors that John Cranley will run against Chabot again, but I hear he plans to challenge Dewine for his seat on the Hamilton County Commission (that would give us 3 Democrats on the Commission – almost too much to believe!). 

We’ll have our work cut out for us to win all three of those races, but it would be so amazing to have more Democrats in office around here!

Lynn in Cincinnati

heh, heh. this is escalating quickly - I'm surprised (pleased) it's already this high! the populace is awakening to reality in America...

Monday, April 16, 2007; 9:42 AM

Two thirds of Americans, including a narrow majority of Republicans, see political motivations behind last year's firings of eight chief federal prosecutors. But the nation is deeply divided along partisan lines about whether Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales should lose his job over the scandal.

clip... In the poll, 67 percent said they believed the prosecutors were fired by the Justice Department for political reasons, not on the basis of their performance. About eight in 10 Democrats and two-thirds of independents said they saw political motivations behind the firings of the U.S. attorneys, an attitude shared by 53 percent of all Republicans surveyed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Lynn - good luck with those races - it would be good to see more dems in office everywhere!

good God - cnn reporting (via AP) that 21 were killed, another 21 injured in the shootings at VA Tech. hope that's a typo - looking for the link...

at least 20 students dead at va tech

The demise of the bees is far more than perhaps cell phones.

When we first moved where we are, the "developer" of sorts also kept tons of bees right here and in South Florida. As people moved into the lots he created, his bees died out in a period of about ten years.

One can assume that, even though much of the area is national forest (i.e. tree farm), many insisted on turning the area into more city-like lots and created manicured lawns, flowers, bushes (oops), and the like. With that change came bug and weed killers and in the end the complete destroying of his bees which had been very much tolerated here.

I haven't seen a honey bee around here in years in spite of the many citrus trees and flowers. I feel the common garden sprays did most of the bad work.

now 22 dead, 20 injured. shooter dead.

42.

linda b

That is a total tragedy. I'm afraid to turn on the TV. What is happening in this country and to our young people? This is awful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO we got a sick society on our hands in America, where the right to bear arms is considered more important than what those arms can do to people.

If you want to follow the Virginia Tech story - the campus radio station WUVT is streaming at www.wuvt.vt.edu.  Two of the television stations in the area are WDBJ and WSLS.

I don't know how much any of them are able to do with the campus locked down, but that would be the first place to look.

A million years ago, I did news at WUVT.  I met their news director a few weeks back when I was in the area. 

46.

* rdorgan
Mon, 04/16/07
12:48 pm
--------

Yes, the one you indicated one of the many....

Reversed upside down society...

Jo*in*Vermont
Mon, 04/16/07
12:38 pm

Depressing.  Link to campus.

http://www.vt.edu/

http://198.82.162.61/

This site is down most of the time due to volume:  but this is what it says:

04/16/2007, Updated 12:40 p.m.

Two shootings on campus today have left 22 confirmed dead, including students.

Families wishing to reunite with students are suggested to meet at the Inn at Virginia Tech. The university is planning a convocation for tomorrow at noon at Cassell Coliseum for the university community to come together to begin to deal with the tragedy.

Counseling is available in the Bowman Room in the Merriman Center (part of the athletic complex) for employees who seek assistance following today’s events.

All faculty and staff have been released and asked to go home effective immediately.

The university will open tomorrow at 8 a.m. but classes are cancelled.

See more details and a statement by President Steger >

msn.com reports 22 dead, 28 injured.  What a tragedy. 

As Sitka said earlier "Thank goodness we live in a country where every nut with a grudge can get a gun."

The sad thing is that for many the answer to this and other such events is to claim that more people should arm themselves.

A very sad state of affairs.  I'm offering prayers, but wish I knew what else to do.

Lynn in Cincinnait

The campus paper, the Collegiate Times, server is down, but updates are being published at http://collegemedia.com/.

The last couple:

 Monday, April 16th 2007 12:23AM
Virginia Tech police have confirmed 22 fatalities resulting from the campus shootings today. The gunman has also been confirmed dead.

Three people were escorted out of Norris Hall by police. The three were handcuffed, separated, questioned, unhandcuffed and then canine teams were sent into Norris Hall said junior computer engineer Nick Saunders who watched the events unfold from the the second floor of Randolph Hall.

According to the university, classes have been cancelled for Tuesday, April 17.

Monday, April 16th 2007 11:57AM
Three people were escorted out of Norris Hall in handcuffs by police. The three were then unhandcuffed and canine teams were sent into Norris Hall.

Monday, April 16th 2007 11:50AM
The Associated Press has reported at least one death and seven injuries stemming from two shooting incidents on the Virginia Tech campus. Police have taken one person into custody and continue to search for another as part of routine procedure.

Monday, April 16th 2007 11:36AM
At this time, University Relations is reporting one individual in custody and is searching for a second shooter. The Collegiate Times will publish information as it is made available.

Monday, April 16th 2007 10:36AM
Due to serious wind helicopters cannot be used to transfer the injured. According to the police scanner, ambulances are being used to transport the victims to Montgomery Regional Hospital.

Pretty sad state of affairs in this country id say...........people the world over most wonder just what kind of monsters inhabit this place............

Does anyone know if the shooter was a student at the school? They are suggesting perhaps the gun was possibly a 9 mm that could use clips.

There is no reason for anyone to have one of those except law enforcement. Perhaps this will brings about, finally, some better federal gun laws as soon as we put in our Dem in 2009. We don't need our kids being slaughtered because of NRA's stupid notions.

Let's not overstate what's happening here.  This is an isolated incident, albeit a tragic one.  To generalize this into an indictment of society would be going too far.

Joan,

No word yet on the shooter's identity, although some of the news stories infer it is an outsider. 

the right to bear arms, well here's a blast from the recent past:

http://www.amazon.com/My-Cold-Dead-Hands-Charlton/dp/0813124085

rich, you know the campus so I am sure you are in the right mind. we need to wait for the correct info. two shootings, don't know if they are related.

second shooting in the engineering school, in a classroom (engineering)

school is usually well guarded and u need secure cards to get in the dorms.

talked to my brother in law in radford. says his wife just went back to work today at radford after their son's passing. buildings are in lock down.

says they know the identity of the shooter but won't release it yet.

54.

rich^kolker
Mon, 04/16/07
1:07 pm


...This is an isolated incident,...
------
???


To generalize this into an indictment of society would be going too far.
------
Not to generalize it...would be going to nowhere.

I've never owned a gun in my life.  I just don't get it why some Americans think of guns as so vital to their daily lives.

I believe in the right to bear arms (I served in the U.S. military nonetheless and got a marksman award in basic training) but just like with the Imus story, IMO there's something very wrong with American society right now, where you can cut someone down whether verbally or else.

On the day called Patriots Day here in Massachusetts, whereby Boston Marathon runners endured and celebrated their togetherness to achieve a goal, that news is diminished by the tragedy of a mass shooting in Virginia.

I've been gone all morning and just heard about the shootings at VA Tech. This is horrific.

Let's not overstate what's happening here.  This is an isolated incident, albeit a tragic one.  To generalize this into an indictment of society would be going too far.  

___________________________________________________________________________

Rich,

Oh of course!  How could one even infer we are a militaristic violent society in general....of course there were the UT tower killings in 1966, an occasional shooting at a Mcdonalds in CA, Columbine, several post office killings and im not even mentioning the daily homicide rate in this country on a  daily basis................throw in kent state for good measure

Im sure Ive probably left out an occasional massacre too............

now saying the shooter is asian. well there are lots of people from the international community at va tech, especially in engineering.

60.

* rdorgan
Mon, 04/16/07
1:18 pm


...IMO there's something very wrong with American society right now, where you can cut someone down whether verbally or else.
---------

What should one expect from the country whose president feels even "obligated" as a "nation defender"...to cut ENTIRE OTHER NATIONS "down whether verbally or else"...

now saying the shooter is asian....
---------
black asian with muslim roots...lol.

my son says all his brothers are accounted for at va tech. thank god.

va tech doing a planned evacuation of the campus.

A few bits of information (and some questions).

The dorm where the first shootings took place is on the opposite side of campus from the enginering buildings where the later shootings took place.

I have heard both that the shooter was dead, and that he was caputured.  Two shooters, or confused reporting?

I have no idea whether this has anything to do with anything, but most of the buildings at Virginia Tech are connected by underground steam tunnels which are passable, so it is possible to travel around campus without being outside.  There are locked gates on the steam tunnels, but students know ways around that (at least we did 30+ years ago).

Most of the buildings at Virginia Tech are covered with a heavy grey stone, and therefore would be bullet resistant except for windows and doors.

Be careful about rumors (even those broadcast).  They are common in fluid situations like this. 

black asian with muslim roots...lol.

YOU ARE DISGUSTING.

52 - people the world over most wonder just what kind of monsters inhabit this place............
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Mike, be fair - there are monsters in every country. your hatred for all-that-is-American is showing.

AND RICH, looks like the hate mongers have made their way here.

just the facts here, just the facts.

or perhaps hatred was too strong a word, Mike. is it disdain?

former -

All I know is that I'm muting the button if our so-called President gets on the TV today to try to soothe America right now over this tragedy.

We've had presidents in the past who had the knack for rising above tragedies and making us feel better about ourselves as a people (ie. FDR after Pearl Harbor attack, etc.) but IMO not in the present with this president.

Goof map of the VT campus at http://www.cos.vt.edu/about/campusmap.jpg

That should be Good map.

Governor Tim Kaine is coming back to Va from his trip to Tokyo. Will be in Va tomorrow.

I have friends who's kids are at tech, they are on their way to blacksburg now.

One has a son who won' t answer his cell phone and is an engineering. So hold your thoughts til we find out what is actually happening.

They are traveling not knowing what has happened to their children.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/college_shootings_list_1;_ylt=AlUr5A8Xe8zc29vhS5HoAMNH2ocA

A list of deadly campus shootings

By The Associated Press

15 minutes ago

A list of some fatal shootings that took place at U.S. colleges or universities in recent years. Monday's campus shooting at Virginia Tech was the deadliest in U.S. history.

...

77.

linda b

I can only imagine what a tough trip this will be for your friends. Candles for their safe trip and for their son.

a five hour trip, not knowing. I could not stand it. omg.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/ObamaHQ/

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those affected by the tragedy in Virginia today.

If you'd like to help out, consider giving to the American Red Cross.

* rdorgan
Mon, 04/16/07
1:38 pm
__________________________________________________________________________

Lets not forget the Amish school girls killed recently too.............

73.

* rdorgan
Mon, 04/16/07
1:32 pm

Reply to this
64.


All I know is that I'm muting the button if our so-called President gets on the TV today to try to soothe America right now over this tragedy.
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If one would be only able the same way TO MUTE OFF REAL LIFE surrounding us...



We've had presidents in the past who had the knack for rising above tragedies and making us feel better about ourselves as a people (ie. FDR after Pearl Harbor attack, etc.) but IMO not in the present with this president.
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Yeah..., there were(is) some Presidents magicians....who are able "making us feel better about ourselves"...

But those are two DIFFERENT things: "feel better" and BE better...

THE "NO PLAN B" ZONE

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-elliott/the-no-planb-zone_b_45922.html

The war in Iraq, the occupation, the fiasco, is there even a word for what has gone on over there? Imagine the schools we could have built with that money. Imagine what Afghanistan would look like now if we hadn't diverted our resources to the the failure in Iraq. Meanwhile bombs are going off in the parliament building, deep in the heart of the fortified no-plan-B zone, killing lawmakers. Our presence is not making Baghdad safer. It's probably making things worse. We need to take the best people we have, people like General Petraeus, and task them with getting us out of Iraq. Put the smartest people on the most pressing problem, how do we withdraw with the least bad scenario. It's too late to put anybody in charge of winning this thing. Not with the Prime Minister in hock to Muqtada al-Sadr. There's not going to be a victory, just various levels of defeat. Last week the president accused the Democrats of trying to cut funding just when we're starting to make progress in Iraq. Starting to make progress? Isn't this the same guy that said we won this war back in 2003?

82.

Michael Ellis
Mon, 04/16/07
1:42 pm

______

Lets not forget the Amish school girls killed recently too
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Just another "isolated" excident...

Mike -

Indeed regarding the Amish school shootings but that piece I linked was just limited to the subject of campus (ie college) shootings.

I just don't understand why the urge to kill.

29 now confirmed dead at va tech.

and the "asian" man was a reporter,

For those of us still harboring residual anger at Dennis Kucinich for his delegates in Iowa in 2004 switching to Edwards in the precients where his delegates didn't meet the 15% threshold - here is my question to him about that yesterday. Even if the answer he gave me is not satisfactory, at least it is honest. I believe he knows there were other less truthful answers which would have made me more happy.

 Additionally, if Howard has forgiven Dennis - I think I will also. Any questions about their relationship - contact Howard at the DNC.

http://www.ctbob.blogspot.com/

And, as always, it is so very good to be here among friends.

86.

* rdorgan
Mon, 04/16/07
1:48 pm


I just don't understand why the urge to kill.
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That's the question for this president to answer..., who is doing it 5th year in a row.

Fox is reporting 32 dead.

Dining halls have been reopened. The university is requesting that students limit movement while police continue their investigation.

new thread.

whoa - the house is announcing communications re: judicial subpeonas presented to Issa, Hunter, Musgrave from the court in DC. will be interesting to know what's up!

 Additionally, if Howard has forgiven Dennis - I think I will also.

DK is a speck of political dust. Who forgives a speck of dust? 

Going on a shooting rampage has become the way for sickos to get the attention they crave. The corporate media should treat them like the fools who jump onto the field at sporting events -- stop giving murding nuts air time so the media can use tragedy to sell cat litter every 15 minutes.