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Fighting the Urge to Surge

Written by: Alan Goldston on Dec 22, 2006 11:04 AM EST

Linked to groups: DFA Blog Network

“Surge” is the latest iteration of an old and discredited idea, that a strategic blunder can be made right by increasing the investment of time and treasure and blood. 

In 1965, Tom Paxton wrote:

Lyndon Johnson told the nation,    "Have no fear of escalation.    I am trying everyone to please.    Though it isn't really war,    We're sending fifty thousand more,    To help save Viet Nam from Vietnamese."

Successive choruses increased that number to sixty and then a hundred thousand. (Read the full lyrics or listen to the song here: http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/Vietimages/Audio/lbj-paxton.html

At the height of its involvement, the United States had over a half million service personnel at one time in Vietnam. As of today, 58,253 of their names appear on the Wall.    

In 1967, Pete Seeger sang on national television a lyric he had written several years earlier, which told allegorically of an army unit on training maneuvers in Louisiana in 1942, being pushed to ford a river of unknown depth by a cocksure and fatally ignorant officer, despite the cautionary questions of the more experienced sergeant.  Only after the captain had drowned was the sergeant able to save his men.    Listen to it here:  http://madmustard.com/2006/09/waist-deep-in-the-big-muddy/ 

The chorus had an acidic edge: 

We were waist deep in the Big Muddy,
And the big fool says to push on.”
 

I read Fred Kaplan’s December 20, 2006 post on Slate (The Urge to Surge, the latest bad idea from Iraq.  http://www.slate.com/id/2155904), which methodically debunks the neo-con argument for increasing American troops in Iraq.  As I read, I couldn’t help thinking back four decades to That Other War of false premises and ideologically blinkered thinking.  Please read it yourself; if you agree, maybe it would help to forward a copy to each of our Senators and Congressmen, with your message urging that they stand fast against the Administration’s efforts to continue this war.   

As I write this, one of my son’s friends, a young Marine back from his first tour in Iraq, awaits orders to return, and my niece, a National Guardsman, is wondering when her unit will be sent over there.  My holiday wish for them is that our Congress stand up to this Administration, and put an end to American military involvement in the Iraqi civil war. 

Alan Goldston, Chair

Democracy for Westchester

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By donna in evanston on Jan 2, 2007 9:06 AM EST

Deans are first in 2007!  Peace, prosperity, healthcare, and a environmentally safe planet for us all!

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By linda b on Jan 2, 2007 9:12 AM EST

where is bush on this? taking his sweet time while our kids are cannon fodder.

off to n.c.

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By Huron John on Jan 2, 2007 9:14 AM EST

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/01/01/military-officials-bush-_n_37576.html

Another more-or-less competent General bights the dust:

Over the past 12 months, as optimism collided with reality, Mr. Bush increasingly found himself uneasy with General Casey's strategy. And now, as the image of Saddam Hussein at the gallows recedes, Mr. Bush seems all but certain not only to reverse the strategy that General Casey championed, but also to accelerate the general's departure from Iraq, according to senior military officials.

To repeat from above:

We were waist deep in the Big Muddy,
And the big fool says to push on.”
 

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By donna in evanston on Jan 2, 2007 9:15 AM EST

Thinking of you and your family today, linda b.

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By Huron John on Jan 2, 2007 9:19 AM EST

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/01/01/biden-to-begin-three-week_n_37575.html

Just as the president is ready to address the nation on Iraq, Biden next week begins three weeks of hearings on the war. On the committee, Biden and Democrats Christopher Dodd (Conn.), John Kerry (Mass.), Russell Feingold (Wis.) and Barack Obama (Ill.) will compete for intensity in criticizing a troop surge. But on the Republican side of the committee, no less probing scrutiny of Bush's proposals will come from Chuck Hagel.

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By Annilow on Jan 2, 2007 9:23 AM EST

5. The committee sounds like a lineup for a Democratic debate -- all potential presidential nominees. Might be interesting to watch -- we'll have to keep an eye out on CSPAN.

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By Annilow on Jan 2, 2007 9:28 AM EST

Euro Officially Surpasses Dollar
by bonddad [Subscribe]

Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 04:55:01 AM PST

The financial press reported last week that the euro, the new currency created only five years ago and used by most European nations, has supplanted the U.S. dollar as the most widely used form of cash internationally. There are now more Euros in circulation worldwide than dollars.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/2/7...

----

I knew I was hanging on to my 100E for a reason.

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By Reed in V T on Jan 2, 2007 9:33 AM EST

A quick pop in with an article from United Press International

.....

This is not a good time to be a member of the dwindling band of America's allies. The ranks are thinning fast. Elections in Spain, Italy and Poland have already removed the governments that joined President Bush's misadventure in Iraq. British Prime Minister Tony Blair, Bush's most reliable friend in Europe, is already packing his bags for a departure expected to come in May or June.

And there is little confidence that the Bush administration has much of an idea what to do about these various challenges, even if the new Democratic majority in Congress is prepared to cooperate. The signs are the White House will cross its fingers, trust to luck and try more of the same.

At home, it hopes that the Federal Reserve can manage a soft landing for the U.S. economy and avoid a crash in the value of the dollar that would send U.S. interest rates through the roof. Abroad, the Bush team seems trapped in the hope that if 140,000 troops have not been able to stem the violence, then a surge of another 25,000 reinforcements might do the trick. But the evidence of the last three years suggests that holding the line to buy time for the Iraqi police and army to become sufficiently trained and responsible to take over represents the triumph of hope over experience.

The hideous reality is that whatever the Bush administration now does is likely to make matters worse. More American troops mean more targets, more casualties, a bigger and clumsier American presence that whittles away what little claim the Iraqi government has of being in charge of events and able to rally sufficient domestic support to curb the sectarian violence.

But troop withdrawals, or the kind of deadline for precipitate departure that some Democrats are urging, will spell not just defeat but probably an escalation of the Sunni-Shiite slaughter inside Iraq, along with the kind of ethnic cleansing that is likely to draw Saudi and Turkish and Iranian involvement to protect their interests and fellow Sunni and Shiite.

.....

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20061230-041107-4867r

 

The mother of all quagmires.... 

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By Annilow on Jan 2, 2007 9:35 AM EST

I heard something on one of the many shows I have had on 'background' in the past few days that made total sense (may not be news to anyone but me) but the person (don't remember who) was conjecturing that the reason BushCo went to Iraq was to keep their oil infrastructure in a shambles, thus keeping the price of oil up for the Saudis.

Other ponderables:

If Congress can't get us universal healthcare, can they at least get all the 'providers' to charge the same to everyone regardless of coverage (outlaw network negotiated prices) on the basis of equal protection perhaps?

If things get much worse for the working man and things get much better for those in Gov't, do you think the USA might eventually elect a socialist ala Chavez?

bbl



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By Huron John on Jan 2, 2007 9:42 AM EST
8.


Reed in VT
Tue, 01/02/07
9:33 am

But troop withdrawals, or the kind of deadline for precipitate departure that some Democrats are urging, will spell not just defeat but probably an escalation of the Sunni-Shiite slaughter inside Iraq, along with the kind of ethnic cleansing that is likely to draw Saudi and Turkish and Iranian involvement to protect their interests and fellow Sunni and Shiite.

------------------------------------

Pure unsupported speculation Republican talking points in the guise of news

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By Mz*Little on Jan 2, 2007 9:47 AM EST

Happy New Year to the Bloggie from the left coast. 

Off to get my broken finger fixed.  Sigh. . .

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By Reed in V T on Jan 2, 2007 10:02 AM EST

10.

Pure unsupported speculation Republican talking points in the guise of news

 

------------------------------

 

Agreed, but all "news" of what happens in Iraq after withdrawal is speculation. In saying that,  withdrawal,  at least has some better speculative options than staying the course does. Other info in the article is what I found interesting but included this since it was written.

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By Reed in V T on Jan 2, 2007 10:05 AM EST

Now off to get some things done...

Mz.Little...how did you break your finger? That surely would hamper blogging ability, hope it mends quickly and well.

 

bbl 

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By Phil Specht on Jan 2, 2007 10:44 AM EST

oh no Barb!

broken bones hurt

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

random and inappropriate remark, but that is the least racially diverse group I have seen assembled in Washington since the 1970's when Ford was President,

maybe we have come a long ways since it struck me so

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By mary vb on Jan 2, 2007 10:45 AM EST

Howard Dean's comment from three years ago. He was right then and he is right now. We need a leader like Dean.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-jacob...

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By mary vb on Jan 2, 2007 10:49 AM EST

Hey Phil - Did you catch the Boise St/Oklahoma game? It was incredible. I was rooting for Boise since I have some good friends who played football for them about a gazillion years ago. ;-)

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By Monica Smith on Jan 2, 2007 11:16 AM EST

If there is a Civil War in Iraq, it's over one issue--the presence of American military forces. The Shias want them to stay to secure their grip on power and the Sunnis want them gone because they never wanted them there in the first place.

While keeping the price of oil high may advantage the Saudis, the more pressing interest is probably based on the fact that, unless oil is more expensive, nuclear won't be competitive. Even when oil is expensive, it's difficult for nuclear (using "enriched" uranium) to be "competitive" for the simple reason that it takes more energy to build the plant and process the uranium than the plant is likely to produce over its life-time. Which is one reason that skimping on maintenance and keeping the plants running longer than intended is such a problem.

I've spent a couple of hours this morning looking at Iraq via Google Earth. Although some parts of the country seem to be less well covered than others and it looks like the picture has been distorted, there are some really interesting sights. What's really amazing is how much of the country in the north where the terraine is much like Syria's is partitioned almost entirely into rectangular agricultural plots where Syria has apparently undeveloped desert-like areas.

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By Linda on Jan 2, 2007 11:45 AM EST

Give Me My Sam Seder, 1260 AM Santa Fe


The new year WAS starting out good. I know I didn't turn on the radio yesterday, but what I found today when I did turn it on and tuned in to what has been Air America Radio, was not good. Stephanie Miller? Stephanie Miller instead of Sam Seder? Are you kidding?

Look nothing against Stephanie Miller personally, but her soft entertainment style of radio is not what I was expecting nor do I want. Sam Seder is intelligent, informative and engaging. I want that. I like getting my news, informed views and facts supported Talk that Sam Seder provides.
Linda in SFNM's diary :: ::

Now it seems to be a trend that that Progressive Radio is being challenged in America. All over the country they've been attempting to turn Progressive Radio Stations over to a wide variety of radio from Christian, to Conservative, to Sports, to Cheerleader and more. They've moved stations to low reception stations to dwindle their audience, then got rid of them all together. There is no longer Progressive Radio in Cininnati,OH, Boston, MA and now attempting Columbus,OH and Buffalo, NY. Now they're controling our news here in Santa Fe,NM.

I can't believe they want to lose their listeners here. Santa Fe residents want Progressive News. They like informed views and informed news with open dialogue. Give us Sam Seder.

Full Article:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/2/1...

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By donna in evanston on Jan 2, 2007 11:52 AM EST
"In an interview with RAW STORY, Senator Obama's Press Secretary Tommy Vietor said he thought there was "no malicious intent" behind the graphic. "Wolf Blitzer is a good person and journalist. Someone made a mistake in a graphic, and that's as far as it goes," he said.

Vietor said the senator and Blitzer had not yet managed to connect on the phone, but that there was a message in his voicemail before 8 AM this morning expressing Blitzer's intent to apologize in person.

Senator Obama's Press Secretary also added "We really appreciate the people in the blogosphere who brought this to our attention, and act as our eyes and ears."

http://www.rawstory.com/news/ 200...fe_in_0101.html
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By Martha Sullivan on Jan 2, 2007 12:38 PM EST

GREAT post! This is the kind of thing we need to spread far and wide, as Alan suggests. It's ESCALATION, not surge ... and we ARE waist-deep in the Big Muddy. Who will be the wiser Sergeant? A good metaphor for the need to Impeach -- "drown" the "cocksure and fatally ignorant officer" in the form of Bush and Cheney in order to save the rest of our military (not to mention the Iraqi people).

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By donna in evanston on Jan 2, 2007 12:48 PM EST

Ed Schultz just scored a few points with me.  Acknowledged that Howard Dean was right when he said that we are not safer with Sadaam out of the way.

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By mary vb on Jan 2, 2007 12:50 PM EST

21. Donna - Ed probably read Rick Jacobs' piece from HuffPO. I posted it upthread.

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By Linda on Jan 2, 2007 12:54 PM EST

22.

mary vb


LOL,, exactly. One doesn't normally associate Ed Schultz with Independent Progressive thinking.

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By Linda on Jan 2, 2007 12:56 PM EST

And Donna, I didn't mean anything by your acknowledgement of Ed's acknowledgement. I agree it's nice to hear him say it, its just things have to be hit over his head a half a doz times for him to start thinking about it. And even then, if his conservative streak wins, like with Lieberman, forget it. :)

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By donna in evanston on Jan 2, 2007 12:56 PM EST

mary vb, I am sure that you are right.  Ed is not exactly an original thinker.  Don't know what he'd do without the Internets providing his liberal talking points.

I'm not an Ed fan, but I usually have our progressive station on when I'm home.  Ed also just argued with a caller who says that Sadaam's trial was rushed and that the reason was that he could implicate too many American interests if he had gone to trial for the other crimes he was charged with.  Ed just kept spouting that Sadaam deserved to hang.

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By Huron John on Jan 2, 2007 12:56 PM EST

http://www.gophypocrites.com/2006/12/hyp06052.html

GATES: BUZZFLASH GOP HYPOCRITE OF THE WEEK

Wouldn't it be hypocrisy for the Secretary of Defense to protect the President of the United States from embarrassment for his grievous and deadly mistakes rather than to do what's best for America?

Yes it would, and so Robert M. Gates is our BuzzFlash GOP Hypocrite of the Week.

Gates, who conventional wisdom had pegged as Poppy Bush's man, has turned out to be worse than Rumsfeld. Rummy, as megalomaniacal as he was, was against increasing troop levels in Iraq.

But Gates, who it turns out is being "handled" by Dick Cheney's office, flew -- with Cheney's staff in charge -- to Iraq for a little public relations time. They had him meet with pre-selected GIs for the cameras, guys who knew to tout the party line and support expansion of U.S. involvement in the civil war.

More significantly, Gates' PR jaunt provided the pretext for "turning the generals around." Prior to the Gates Iraq charade, the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff unanimously opposed sending more Gis to Iraq. The general who oversaw Iraq operations and knew the most about the situation on the ground was against the euphemistic "surge." Reportedly, most of the military leadership in Iraq didn't think an increase in troops would help.

But all that dramatically changed after Cheney's people took Gates to Iraq on a leash. They basically fired the dissenting general who knew the most about Iraq. They got Gates to read the riot act to the Joint Chiefs -- and Cheney's people apparently worked over the military commanders in Baghdad.

Presto-change-o, Gates returns and suddenly the Pentagon brass are behind Bush's decision that will only lead to more GI deaths.

Of course, it's all a Soviet-style charade. Gates just helped make sure that the guys who really know about war got the message that they better stand behind the personal interests of Godfather Bush or their military careers would be ruined.

That's not protecting America. That's protecting Bush's ass.

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By former on Jan 2, 2007 12:57 PM EST

9.

Annilow
Tue, 01/02/07
9:35 am

....
If things get much worse for the working man and things get much better for those in Gov't, do you think the USA might eventually elect a socialist ala Chavez?

----------
...lol,...not only "might", but there won't be any other choice.
The "socialist" though will be much more advanced, compared to Chavez (or to any other one)..., it'll be "you have power" kind of socialist...



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By donna in evanston on Jan 2, 2007 1:00 PM EST

LOL!  We all seem to be on the same Ed page.  What I DO think Ed is good for is bringing in listenters who ordinarilly would be listening to right wing radio.  But to me, he is pretty much a blowhard who gets it right once in a while.

I freely admit that many don't agree.  He gets some very politically weighy guests to come on his show.

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By Linda on Jan 2, 2007 1:07 PM EST

28. Yes, the DLC crowd favors him(he's supportive) and Howard will go on his show, like he will FOX to reach across so those not on the wagon supporters can hear the truth.

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By mary vb on Jan 2, 2007 1:10 PM EST

Hi Donna - I hope I didn't insult you by what I said about Ed. It was merely my opinion of Ed - not you. LOL!

My husband listens to him all the time and calls him a *Clintonista type*.

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By floridagal . on Jan 2, 2007 1:20 PM EST

Chris Graff has a book out, anyone read it? Dateline Vermont. I did not know that Garrett Graff of Fishbowl DC was his son. AP asked Graff to ask his son not to work for the Dean campaign. Plus all the stuff about his getting fired from AP because of Leahy and Dean.

Looks like Howard Dean on the cover with him.

 http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/882

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By Monica Smith on Jan 2, 2007 1:30 PM EST

Well, I just read the Raw Story summary of how Obama's name is being used for sport. While I tend to agree that there was no "malicious intent," according to my theory about the purposes served by racial antagonism and exclusionary behavior, the intent is never malicious, just dismissive of another person's personal privacy and well-being.

Yes, Americans have a habit of making fun of people's names and American men in the media seem to have a particular penchant for honing in on what people are wearing as part of their "humor" repertoir. Even the commentators for major league football can't seem to resist making pejorative comments about what people are wearing. Golf commentators do it, too.

And then there's religion. When all else fails, a person's religious preference is always good for a slam. I use that word intentionally because, given what most Americans know about religions other than their own (and, often, their own), the current animus towards Islam may well be largely driven by the resonnance of the word. I slam Islam. How clever I am. Let's have a drink to that. See how that works. Antagonism towards others isn't intended to be malicious; it's just a way for people to bond. If someone objects, it's just a joke. Don't you get it?

On the other hand, the verbiage crafted for Wolf Blitzer to "explain" how they had done wrong is beneath contempt.

"I just want to make a correction, an apology, Soledad, for what we did yesterday. In 'The Situation Room,' we had a bad graphic," Blitzer said in a transcript delivered to RAW STORY by CNN's public relations staff. "We were doing a piece on the hunt for Osama Bin Laden in this new year 2007. Unfortunately, instead of saying "where is Osama," it said "where is Obama." I'm going to be calling Senator Barack Obama to make a personal apology."

First, Blitzer, BEFORE he contacts the person to whom he thinks he owes an apology for what "we did," takes the opportunity to re-state the gaffe in public AND to promote an upcoming program about NOTHING. The allusion to Senator Obama may not have been malicious, but the re-airing was gratuitous. Basically, the error is being used to hype a vapid product.
Second, there's that regal "we" that blitzer is using, taking responsibility for something he obviously didn't control and thereby making himself seem more important. That's shoddy.
Third is the question of what he's actually going to be apologizing for. "A bad graphic"? Not sloppy journalism, inattentive management, lazy producers, etc. No, it's the graphic that was bad. A 'b' just slipped in where an 's' was supposed to be AND NOBODY NOTICED. Right!

Is there a not-so-subtle undercurrent to denigrate Democrats, whether they're candidates for president or not? You bet. And the reason they get away with it is because politicians have come to value bad notice over no notice at all and have learned that, if they complain, they won't only get no more notice, but the media will go out of their way to paint them as winers. It's a no-win situation. And that's why it's important for citizens to call the media on it.

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 1:37 PM EST

Floridagal, that IS Dean on the cover of the book. Have you read it? Is there much about Dean in there?

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By Monica Smith on Jan 2, 2007 1:41 PM EST

25.

Yes, Gates is Poppy's man and setting up a big spy machine in Iraq from which China and Russia can be kept in check is Poppy's plan. It's been the plan ever since VietNam where, contrary to their expectations, Nixon went and talked to China and agreed to pull the U.S. assets out.
It's actually possible that the surge in troops is needed to move all the equipment into the embassy, which is about to be finished. If some of the stuff needs to come over-land from the Gulf, they'll need a strong force to provide security for the transport.

Why does anyone still believe anything that GHWB and his gang of crooks says?

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By Phil Specht on Jan 2, 2007 1:42 PM EST

mary

missed the high scoring thriller, enjoyed the defensive line struggle between WI and Arkansas

and now we get a true national championship game as well whoever wins; as USC had great line play as well (I only watch the "skill" players on the replay, most of the time whichever side of the ball has the push wins the game)

if I don't answer anyone it's because I'm sharing the computer three ways

in my mind GOTV is a between the tackles struggle in the days around the election, lol, I still think like a lineman

maybe that's why I have a positive attitude toward President Ford's memory

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 1:42 PM EST

Oh, and you should probably provide a  link to ordering the book to go with your book cover graphic on that good diary.

Ordering link here. 

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 1:45 PM EST
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By Monica Smith on Jan 2, 2007 1:46 PM EST

P.S. One doesn't plan to build 14 "enduring bases" (there are now 25 major enclaves) in a country where the only task is to catch and remove one dictator and some of his clan.

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 1:46 PM EST

 Cindy wants moving help

"As I was lying on a freezing-cold floor, dressed in black and white prison stripes in Waco, Texas, the other night, feeling sorry for myself for a minute, I thought of our brave young people in Iraq whom corporate greed has sentenced to a prison of a war that is turning more nightmarish by the minute, and I didn't feel so bad. I thought of the innocent Iraqis who cannot escape from the prison of an occupation that is killing them by the hundreds of thousands every year, and I felt downright fortunate. Then I recalled that Bloody George and his "Holes in the Head" gang were just contemplating sending upwards of 40,000 more troops to Iraq (and, in fact, that was why I was in jail that night), and I got downright terrified."

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 1:49 PM EST
$100 laptop project launches 2007
The laptop could one day cost as little as $100

The first batch of computers built for the One Laptop Per Child project could reach users by July this year

 


James Gettys, vice president of software engineering for One Laptop per Child The laptop could one day cost as little as $100   

 

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 1:50 PM EST
A new PBS show promises breaking news from the world of science, a nice alternative to cable news alerts whenever the president stubs his toe.

``Wired Science,'' which debuts tomorrow at 8 p.m. New York time, is part of an interesting contest in which viewers will help decide PBS's next weekly science program. Two other pilots, ``Science Investigators'' (Jan. 10) and ``22nd Century'' (Jan. 17), round out the competition.

``Wired Science,'' a fast-paced, far-reaching collaboration between PBS and Wired magazine, will be hard to beat.

The hour-long show kicks off with a segment on professional meteorite hunters. Viewers contemplating a career move should take note: Sometimes heaven rains far more than pennies.

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 1:52 PM EST

Villagers find hope in "Lost Boys"

A Colorado team of African "Lost Boy" refugees and their adoptive parents crossed into southern Sudan on Sunday, carrying tons of aid cargo into a volatile war-ravaged region in hopes of helping thousands of impoverished villagers.

This Project Education Sudan - which began when Denver apartment repairman Khor Bher ventured back to Sudan after two decades and found his mother - targets six villages in a Texas-size region decimated during Sudan's 21-year civil war between Muslim Arab government forces and African rebels.

Denver-area high school students helped drive the effort. Fighting recently flared in the region, but the team resolved to push ahead.

---

The team of 12 Coloradans - including six refuges who fled Sudan as small boys - planned to install solar panels to bring electricity to a Colorado-funded school. They also brought roofing materials, beans and rice, and well-drilling experts based in neighboring Kenya.

The team plans to work through Jan. 16. Sudan has oil, 80 percent of it located in the south. Yet without a promised share of oil revenues, southern villagers struggle to survive.

 

 

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By Monica Smith on Jan 2, 2007 2:01 PM EST

35.

Your memories are in your own head, Phil, so it's natural that you feel good about them. Ford, I think, benefitted from the realization that it could have been so much worse. Though, what "it" was doesn't seem to have been clear in anyone's mind. Nixon had found it necessary to tell us he wasn't a crook and then, lo and behold, he had apparently lied and a whole nation was satisfied. Me too. I admit it. But, in retrospect, Nixon's biggest mistake was in resigning while he, apparently, wasn't quite certain what he'd done.
We all know now that Georgie doesn't have the mental where-with-all to be actively participating in the "urinary executive." So, that leaves us with the reality that someone else is running the show and while me might think they are the heirs of Richard Nixon, it's quite possible that they were the creators of the imperial presidency way back then.
What I want to know is how did it happen that President Kennedy ordered that U.S. missiles not be deployed in Turkey and yet they were. Who contravened his orders or didn't transmit them to the Pentagon? Who was responsible for the Soviet Union having to send missiles to Cuba to get the missiles out of Turkey?
I do not, btw, hold it against Kennedy that he didn't admit to having been disobeyed. Doing so would have sparked a Constitutional crisis. But, considering how many people have been killed since, it might have been better to have it then.

I'm beginning to think that the biggest quizzlings are the people who elevate stability over all other virtues. Trying to "stabilize" the Middle East/Persian Gulf region has left a lot of prematurely dead people.

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By Sitka on Jan 2, 2007 2:17 PM EST

maybe that's why I have a positive attitude toward President Ford's memory

He WAS good for a laugh........

 

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By Joan* In*Florida on Jan 2, 2007 2:42 PM EST

Dean was right -- of course!

Dean's candidacy catapulted to near coronation by an otherwise disdainful media corps precisely because he alone of any major candidate opposed the war from the outset. He gained unflinching grassroots support that translated into historic amounts of money, nearly all from small donors, because he literally spoke truth to power. While on the one hand he questioned the essence of our government's social contract with its citizens by its persistent unwillingness to provide access to good healthcare for all of our people, on the other hand he questioned the president's essential competence by underscoring the lunacy in positing that just imprisoning a deposed dictator would ipso facto make America safer. Dean's rivals for the nomination, including the one who ultimately received it, joined Joe Lieberman in decrying the former Vermont Governor's naïveté for calling bullshit to the president's continued wanderings in the labyrinth of Iraq's growing civil war.

Most regrettably, this weekend's confluence of Saddam's execution with passing the 3,000 mark in the number of American soldiers dead in Iraq proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Dean was right three years ago. At the time Dean made his much-criticized remark, about 500 American's had died in Iraq. Five times that many have died since. And this does not include hundreds of dead American contractors, and tens of thousands of dead Iraqis.

We can argue about how to define "safety" in a national security sense, but losing another 2,500 soldiers since Saddam was imprisoned does not sound very safe to me. Does anyone believe that America is safer today even with even Saddam Hussein dead? If regime change was our purpose, what was or is the foreign policy objective of continued engagement in the midst of a civil war we invented? Most importantly, will the candidates in the 2008 election cycle look to the example of the members of congress and the establishment on both sides of the aisle who would not so much as criticize the president for fear of being branded weak on defense or will they look to the example of Howard Dean who had the temerity to tell the truth and face the wrath of that establishment? On that question rests the future of our republic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-jacobs/howard-dean-in-december-2_b_37538.html

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 2:44 PM EST

44

Your graphic shows an error message instead. Upload it to your DFAlink account and then post it from there. I have seen that happen a few times and it must be 'cause we are stealing their bandwidth when we do that.

 

 

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 2:46 PM EST

A day or two ago we were talking about George Michael. Seems he got in trouble again for the third time in a year.

 

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By Huron John on Jan 2, 2007 2:49 PM EST

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/46144/

 What's next in Iraq?

Juan Cole, the brilliant and persistent critic of U.S. policy in Iraq methodically demolishes the myths and misconceptions about the next steps in Iraq.

The biggest myth is that the United States can still win in Iraq. But as Cole explains, "[T]he establishment of a stable, pro-American, anti-Iranian government with an effective and even-handed army and police force in the near or even medium term ... is frankly ridiculous. The Iraqi 'government' is barely functioning. The parliament was not able to meet in December because it could not attain a quorum. Many key Iraqi politicians live most of the time in London. ... Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki does not control large swathes of the country and could give few orders that had any chance of being obeyed. The U.S. military cannot shore up this government, even with an extra division because the government is divided against itself."

As for Bush's canard that setting a timetable for withdrawal would give a "significant military advantage to the guerrillas fighting U.S. forces ..." -- That assertion makes sense only if there were a prospect that the U.S. could militarily crush the Sunni Arabs. There is no such prospect. The guerrilla war is hotter now than at any time since the U.S. invasion. More Sunni Arabs support it than ever before. It is producing more violent attacks than ever before.

Since we cannot defeat them short of genocide, we have to negotiate with them. And their first and most urgent demand is that the U.S. set a timetable for withdrawal before they will consider coming into the new political system. That is, we should set a timetable in order to turn the Sunni guerrillas from combatants into political negotiating partners. Even Sunni politicians cooperating with the U.S. make this demand. They are disappointed with the lack of movement on the issue."

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 2:50 PM EST

What the heck is with MA?  I thought it was supposed to be one of the more progressive states?

Mass. Lawmakers Vote on Gay Marriage Ban





Jan 2, 2:31 PM (ET)

By GLEN JOHNSON

BOSTON (AP) - Lawmakers in Massachusetts, the only state where gay marriage is legal, on Tuesday voted to advance a proposed constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, a critical step toward putting the measure the 2008 ballot.

Prior to the session, Gov.-elect Deval Patrick urged legislators not to vote on the amendment, calling it a "question of conscience."

"I believe that adults should be free to choose whom they wish to love and to marry," Patrick said shortly before lawmakers were to meet for the final day of their session.

Outside the Statehouse, crowds of gay marriage supporters and opponents waved signs as legislators began arriving.

The amendment's backers had collected 170,000 signatures to get the amendment on the 2008 ballot, but it still needed the Legislature's approval.

Last fall, the Legislature angered the amendment's backers and the governor when it recessed without voting on the issue. Senate President Robert Travaglini didn't immediately say if he would force a vote on Tuesday.


 

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 3:00 PM EST

Have you taken your Happy Pill today? Open wide...

 

Wait—I gotta take this call

Dude—what's up? Yeah. Happy New Year t'you too.

Not much, just hangin' out. Why?

Yeah, I'll go to In-and-Out Burger with you.

Lemme get my coat.

 

 

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By Huron John on Jan 2, 2007 3:01 PM EST
49.
_ FiReFoX!
Tue, 01/02/07
2:50 pm

Bigotry is everywhere!
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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 3:02 PM EST
Crooning Chameleon Curmudgeons

[Piano playing in the background]

Big green lizard:
"Boy, the way Glen Miller played... Songs that made the hit parade. Guys like us, we had it made.

Together: "Those were the days."

Little grey lizard: And you know who you were theeeeeen!"

Big green lizard: "girls were girls and men were men."

Together: "Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover agaaaain"

Big green lizard: "Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight. Gee, our old LaSalle ran great."

Together: "Those weerrre the daaaaaaaaaaaaaaays."

 

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By roger rankin on Jan 2, 2007 3:02 PM EST

3003

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By roger rankin on Jan 2, 2007 3:05 PM EST

a good place for the George Dubya Bush Library....Leavenworth or Guantanamo?

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 3:08 PM EST

I'm so shy.

 

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 3:08 PM EST

I'm so shy.

 

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By fIrEfOx! on Jan 2, 2007 3:09 PM EST
Sorry for the double post. Not sure what happened there.
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By sunlight on Jan 2, 2007 3:21 PM EST

Daily News' Gets Rudy's Prez Plans Left Behind in Hotel

Published: January 02, 2007 11:45 AM ET

NEW YORK We've all left something behind in a hotel room at least once -- a toothbrush, or slipper, or maybe even a set of keys. But now a GOP presidential hopeful, and former New York City mayor, tops just about everyone.

Left behind in a hotel room recently by Rudy Giuliani or one of his aides were 140 pages of printed text, handwriting and spreadsheets, now leaked to New York's Daily News by the campaign of a GOP rival. The tabloid in a front-page special today describes it as the "top-secret plan for Rudy Giuliani's bid for the White House."

Patrick Healy, writing in The New York Times this afternoon, comments, "The public disclosure of the document, which was leaked by a Giuliani adversary to The Daily News, is potentially damaging for Mr. Giuliani, given that he has portrayed himself as a leader on security issues and strategic planning.<

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003526467

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By mary vb on Jan 2, 2007 3:26 PM EST

59. I think Rudy's goose is cooked. It has to be over (before it even began) for Rudy.

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By * cChalfonte* on Jan 2, 2007 3:28 PM EST

quick drive-by: 

Fighting the Urge to Surge  by Alan Goldston, the current thread topic is among the best I've seen. I enjoyed the use of the protest songs as story elements....easy read, certainly relevant.

Thanks, Alan Goldston. 

 

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By Joan* In*Florida on Jan 2, 2007 3:28 PM EST

To lighten up a rather dull day -- at least here -- laughter to start the year out right!:

This email from our real estate agent::::

All of these are legitimate companies that didn't spend quite enough time
considering how their online names might appear ... and be misread.
These are not made up. Check them out yourself!

1. Who Represents is where you can find the name of the agent that
represents any celebrity.  Their Web site is w ww.whorepresents.com

2 . Experts Exchange is a knowledge base where programmers can exchange
advice and views at  www.expertsexchange.com

3. Looking for a pen? Look no further than Pen Island at www.penisland.net

4. Need a therapist? Try Therapist Finder at www.therapistfinder.com

5. There's the Italian Power Generator company, www.powergenitalia.com

6. And don't forget the Mole Station Native Nursery in New South Wales ,
www.molestationnursery.com

7. If you're looking for IP computer software, there's always
www.ipanywhere.com

8. The First Cumming Methodist Church Web site is  www.cummingfirst.com

9. And the designers at Speed of Art await you at their wacky Web site,
www.speedofart.com

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By puddle on Jan 2, 2007 3:33 PM EST

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=T2T4D

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By Joan* In*Florida on Jan 2, 2007 3:39 PM EST
11.
Mz*Little >Off to get my broken finger fixed.  Sigh. . .~~~~Did the chicken play too rough?
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By FRED from OR on Jan 2, 2007 3:55 PM EST

Hello Bloggers ! Nice debate last night - we managed to keep it civil - unfortunately I was up all night with headaches (because I have severe MCS) from the people burning who-knows-what in their stoves here in town.  Probably toxins from Christmas packaging, plastics, dyes, etc.  Could not smell much but could sense it and feel my head pounding and my eyes tearing.  It must be killing all of us slowly - but who's gonna know?

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By Joan* In*Florida on Jan 2, 2007 3:58 PM EST

The Fort Worth/Dallas Metroplex is reporting that 2006 had the warmest average temps on record there -- 80.4 degrees. Al Gore will surely notice this.

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By Thankful2Thankful4Dean on Jan 2, 2007 4:00 PM EST

Barbara - ouch! Yes, we'd love to hear how it happened :-)

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By FRED from OR on Jan 2, 2007 4:02 PM EST
62.


Joan* In*Florida

 --------------------

ROFLAMAO

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By Joan* In*Florida on Jan 2, 2007 4:06 PM EST

65. > Who's gonna know?

Excellent question Fred.

Many of us with allegies and asthma suffer from these pollutants more than others. Perhaps it will take some Congressmen with asthma to really do something about it. First, remove the really BIG pollutant -- G.W. Bush.

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By Thankful2Thankful4Dean on Jan 2, 2007 4:17 PM EST

62. :-D Fun.

You bet Joan, BushCoup is the worst poison. My sensitivities are getting worse over time, all the chemical scents and chemical anti-scents can really set off a bad headache or even a migraine. Can't imagine the havoc they wreak for those with asthma.

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By Joan* In*Florida on Jan 2, 2007 4:20 PM EST

Hi Thankful. It took me years to convince my husband I could not tolerate his after shave as well as some of the expensive perfumes he bought me while dating. Though most people have become aware of it these days, it still takes an act of congress to get a hand lotion without perfume.

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By Thankful2Thankful4Dean on Jan 2, 2007 4:25 PM EST

LOL, an Act of Congress against big corporatins, I've seen deer fly, but not the proverbial pigs. Even the unscented stuff can be hard to tolerate. Did you know most public places in Nova Scotia are scent-free because they recognize how poison all those chemicals are? Sounds awesome to me!

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By FRED from OR on Jan 2, 2007 4:52 PM EST
69.
Joan* In*Florida
70.
Thankful2Thankful4Dean
-----------------Thanks for the sympathy and feedback - the first thing this country has to do to fight the first wave of degenerative diseases, the epidemics of the 20th and 21st centuries, is get over the the anti-regulatory madness the neocons brought us.  We've been outdone by the Chinese already.  every football game has rules and refs for a level playing field and so does free enterprise. Time to move forward.   Excelsior! as Hillary and Jean Shepard would say.The second thing for the most sophisticated country in the world (LOL) to realize is that the gods stopped controlling our lives thousands of years ago, and the fundy fatalisms is pagan.  We have free will. These illnesses are caused by what we make and do, they are not punishment  of any God or gods.
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By seashell on Jan 2, 2007 4:57 PM EST

Congress coming down on *smack their lips* Corporations?

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By Thankful2Thankful4Dean on Jan 2, 2007 4:58 PM EST

sea - LOLOLOLOL
~ ~ ~

personal note: Rene is mostly sleeping today. He really liked that Bob was here to visit - he remembers Bob from grade school and as an athlete in HS. When Bob took his hand and kissed his forehead good-bye, Rene said they'd be in a more comfy place next time they meet. Night before last, he was telling Bob he was going to drop his shoes and laptop in the bin at the Pearly Gates and watch over us all from above. Bob said, "Laptop, you've got to leave your laptop behind?!" Rene said, "Yeah, else you have to stay in Purgatory longer and do extra credit, or, you can go to Hell, Bob." ROFL, his sense of humor is certainly not lost ;-) We're hanging in, one step at a time... ♥'s to all.

♥ linda b ♥ Thinking of you and your family.

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By FRED from OR on Jan 2, 2007 5:00 PM EST

Youse guys might be interested to know the Bay Area has a really great Yahoo MCS group.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bayareamcslist/promote

and there is a safe housing group

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/mcssafeshelterusa/promote

sign up to get notices

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By FRED from OR on Jan 2, 2007 5:03 PM EST
74.


seashell

 ----------------------

great LOL - I saved it in my graphics collection - my 11year old loves them too

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By Lynn Worpenberg on Jan 2, 2007 5:10 PM EST

T2T4D,

Love and prayers to you and Rene

Lynn in Cincinnati

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By FRED from OR on Jan 2, 2007 5:11 PM EST

Thankful and Joan

If you two are that sensitive, there is always the possibility of it going progressive and getting worse and the list of triggers to grow very rapidly. - so I would strongly suggest not to tempt this condition and not to tolerate things that bother you - avoid them religiously.  That is the only thing I can tell you.

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By Thankful2Thankful4Dean on Jan 2, 2007 5:15 PM EST

I hear ya Fred, thanks.

Thanks Lynn ♥

bbl

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By Linda on Jan 2, 2007 6:01 PM EST

Look at the photo Boise, ID used to write that Al Gore will be giving speech later this month.

 

 

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By Linda on Jan 2, 2007 6:09 PM EST

Love to Rene, his sister and her friend.

 

 

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By Huron John on Jan 2, 2007 6:09 PM EST

Powerful message from Cindy:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/010207B.shtml

  On December 31st, our 3,000th child was killed for the lies of another president. While Gerald Ford lies in state, our 3,000th troop will be brought home on his final airplane flight in the cargo area. This fine young example of humanity will be sneaked into the US as if he, and not his commander in chief, were a criminal. His family will be left to mourn alone, and his body will not be guarded night and day. After the funeral (which Bloody George will not attend), he will be forgotten by the country that sent him to die in a war that is as corrupt as the day is long, but his family will never be able to recover from his loss.

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By Huron John on Jan 2, 2007 6:11 PM EST

Near the end of the thread, a message worth repeating:

We were waist deep in the Big Muddy,
And the big fool says to push on.”
 

or "stay the course"................................

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By puddle on Jan 2, 2007 6:27 PM EST
Maude and Claude, both 91, lived in The Villages in Florida. They met at a singles club meeting and discovered over time that they enjoyed each other's company.

After several weeks of meeting for coffee, Claude asked Maude out for dinner and, much to his delight, she accepted. They had a lovely evening. They dined at the most romantic restaurant in town.

Despite his age, they ended up at this place for an after dinner drink. Things continued along a natural course and age being no inhibitor, Maude soon joined Claude for a most enjoyable roll in the hay.

As they were basking in the glow of the magic moments they'd shared, each was lost for a time in their own thoughts....

Claude was thinking, "If I'd known she was a virgin, I'd have been gentler."

Maude was thinking, "If I'd know he could still do it, I'd have taken off my pantyhose."
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By Linda on Jan 2, 2007 6:36 PM EST

85.

puddle



LOL

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By jc on Jan 2, 2007 6:40 PM EST
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By jc on Jan 2, 2007 6:47 PM EST

Barbara,

I must have missed how you broke your finger.  Details? 

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By jc on Jan 2, 2007 6:50 PM EST

♥ Thankful ♥

Maybe Rene will eventually convince them to have a blog. 

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By floridagal . on Jan 2, 2007 6:53 PM EST

Firefox, thanks for the ordering link.   I added it to the journal in a new entry.

I may just order it.... It does look like Howard Dean on the cover.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/882

Especially since Dean was probably one of the reasons Graff was fired, along with Leahy, I may order it.

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By puddle on Jan 2, 2007 6:54 PM EST
New post on baby. clicky

With Thankful's and the family's permission.
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By seashell on Jan 2, 2007 7:05 PM EST

We knew this would happen didn't we?

Iraq investigates Saddam footage TV grab of execution of Saddam Hussein (file picture) Saddam Hussein was taunted and insulted in his last moments
Mobile phone images The Iraqi government has launched an inquiry into unofficial mobile phone footage showing the execution of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

The mobile phone footage showed he exchanged taunts and insults with witnesses at his hanging on Saturday.

The grainy video showed the former leader being told to "go to hell" by someone attending the hanging.

One of the trial prosecutors who saw the execution said he threatened to halt it if the jeering did not stop.

Munkith al-Faroon - who can be heard appealing for order on the unofficial video - said that he had threatened to walk out.

This could have halted the execution, as a prosecution observer must, by law, be present.

Mr Faroon also said he knew "two top officials... had their mobile phones with them [at the execution]. There were no mobile phones allowed at that time."



The Iraqi authorities fear the footage, released on the internet hours after the execution, could contribute to a dramatic rise in sectarian tensions between Iraq's Sunni and Shia communities/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6224531.stm 

 

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By jc on Jan 2, 2007 7:11 PM EST

Nice post, puddle.

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By Joan* In*Florida on Jan 2, 2007 7:11 PM EST

85. Puddle :))))

We Floridians are well endowed with certain virtues like Maude and Claude;;;

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By mary vb on Jan 2, 2007 7:13 PM EST

puddle - Just beautiful. Thankful is blessed to have you as a friend. Thank you for sharing.

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By Linda on Jan 2, 2007 7:13 PM EST

Puddle, beautiful.

Love and Big, beautiful, bright, warm light for Rene.

Hugs to his family.

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By mary vb on Jan 2, 2007 7:14 PM EST

94. The Maude & Claude piece is hysterical! ;-)

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By Joan* In*Florida on Jan 2, 2007 7:16 PM EST

91. Wonderful puddle, your talents are much admired.

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By Linda on Jan 2, 2007 7:19 PM EST

I forgot to turn on Never Say Never Again. Bummer. Just in time for the ending.

Man time flies. I'm in shock looking at 1983 year made. It seems like so little time ago.

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By Joan* In*Florida on Jan 2, 2007 7:20 PM EST

*************** New Thread***********

Which, BTW, I have already initiated.

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By seashell on Jan 2, 2007 7:21 PM EST

Ah, love between octagenerians.  Isn't that 80s?  What's nineties?

Great post, puddle.  LOL 

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By seashell on Jan 2, 2007 7:30 PM EST
Nixon pardon was another preemptive strike against the Kennedys, part 3 by Margie Burns | Jan 2 2007 - 2:09pm |  permalink
article tools: email | print | read more Margie Burns

May, 1972, politically an action-filled month, began auspiciously for President Nixon with the sudden death on May 2 of FBI Director and fearsome White House antagonist J. Edgar Hoover. Hoover’s longtime loyal secretary then destroyed his files on Washington notables inside and outside government, a potential blackmail cache. In an episode pertaining to a future administration, the young George W. Bush – called “Junior” – soon hit the skids in some way, blowing his record with the Air National Guard. As the month went on, on May 15 George Wallace – Nixon’s main threat from the right in the 1972 election – was shot and injured too badly to continue campaigning. Meanwhile, the Nixon White House, undoubtedly relieved by the fortuitous removal of two political threats – Hoover and Wallace -- forged ahead with plans including a scheme to wiretap the Watergate headquarters of the Democratic National Committee, headed by Kennedy loyalist Lawrence O’Brien. The perpetrators, hired by CREEP (Committee to Reelect the President), made their first attempt during the Memorial Day weekend.

article continues...
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By seashell on Jan 2, 2007 7:31 PM EST

Lighthearted prediction for 2007.

Predictions for 2007 by Stephen Pizzo | Jan 2 2007 - 8:27am |  permalink
article tools: email | print | read more Stephen Pizzo

The War: Jenna & Barbara Bush will not be part of their dad's troop surge. Ditto for any member of the Cheney clan.

The War: With polls showing support for the war in Iraq down to a paltry 11%, Democrats will decide it's almost safe to openly oppose it too.

The War: Iraqi Shiites, aligned with Iran, win the civil war. Iraq's Sunnis get to learn what it was like to be a Shiite when Sunnies ran Iraq. The Kurds go their own whey. (Sorry...)

Religion: Evangelical congregations will enact new rules requiring their ministers to wear GPS tracking devices when not within clear sight or in the pulpit.

article continues...

 

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By seashell on Jan 2, 2007 7:58 PM EST

ATTENTION:

Keith's doing a special comment tonight. 

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