I say to you Dean is first.

1. Agreed Tom. And true progressives, of whom there are all too few, share in the firstiness.

THE GOP--FROM HUFFPO

sm you don't have to go extreme. I don't think many can agree with EVERYTHING on a candidate, but basic core principles are mighty important to me.

And, uh, NO, Obama did not hede to advice from environmentalists or Al Gore. As a matter of fact, he had been planning this Bill for some time and in January of 07 the Environmentalists started raising alarms, in March they got quite loud and clear about what he was pushing....in June, he was still pushing it. Al Gore spoke out against it loud and clear on his tv appearances in June. Only after that one Bill lost support, did Obama stop pushing for it and started to try and bolster GREEN creds....hence his campaign of planting trees on the Step it Up event. He thought that was a big deal, that's why he could only list that as any efforts he's done in his private life towards Global Warming. Then added, "but thinking of changing lightbulbs with my two daughters". mmmmm, oh yeah, great leadership.

No sm, I'm not an Obama supporter. His values are complete contrary to mine. I look at each person and what they do, not what they say. Being Obama can not lead on all the issues important, War, Rights, Global Warming and Energy, Economy, Health Care and honesty, I cannot support him.

I don't think you have to worry about any endorsements from Al Gore, which is why he has been stating he may not give any, but for sure, it would be him. And no, even if a miracle happened, that doesn't change my mind.

On last night's thread, Susan Rowe chastised me for my critical comments on the many shortcomings of Congressional Democrats, and posted the list of Democratic accomplishments inthe current Congress--a pretty thin list, in view of what was expected (and doable) after last year's elections.

Paul Jenkins makes some pertinent comments on the Democrats' failures with regard to the immigration debate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-jenkins/democrats-uneasy-dance-w_b_73397.html

The prospect of Lou Dobbs short-lived presidential candidacy was the cherry on the cake of a campaign already deeply infused with hostility to immigrants and foreigners. It is easy (and appropriate) to demonize Republicans for demonizing immigrants, but Democrats share some responsibility, not only for not fighting back more vigorously on the issue, but also because they are uncomfortable talking about it, let alone leading on it.

The ease with which right-wing anti-immigrants, assorted racists and their close allies including Rudy Giuliani have been able to merge the issues of immigration, crime and terrorism happened in no small part because most leading Democrats stood by, uncomfortably silent, while Mexican workers were essentially accused of plotting to blow up American malls and/or of pillaging entire Iowa communities.

The recent commotion about undocumented immigrants and U.S. driver's licenses was typical. Hillary Clinton, always one to shy away from anything remotely controversial, truly has had half-a-dozen positions in as many weeks, a sure sign that she is caught between a rock and a hard place (in the meanwhile, of course, we have yet to hear from John Edwards on the issue besides his hammering away at Clinton's own indecisiveness).

5. (currently) LOL....s/b for sure would NOT be him.

IT'S THE LIES, STUPID!

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_joel_s___071120_first_woman_2c_first_b.htm

The phrase honest politician has become an oxymoron.  We should not be impressed by the prospect of having the first woman, first black or first Latino president.  What would be far more radical would be to have the first honest president, if not ever, certainly in a very long time.

Presidents in recent memory have been excellent liars, contributing mightily to our culture of dishonesty.  Bill Clinton had the audacity to look right into the TV camera and blatantly lie to the American public.  George W. Bush has probably set a record for official lying, though it might take many decades to fully document them.  Carl M. Cannon saw the bigger truth: “posterity will judge [George W. Bush] not so much by whether he told the truth but whether he recognized what the truth actually was.”

Rampant lying by politicians is a major reason why so many Americans have stopped paying attention to politics, stopped hoping for political reforms, and stopped voting

Lying politicians probably tell themselves that the public cannot take the truth.  Many convince themselves (lie to themselves) that lies of omission are not really serious like lies of commission.

Just how bad things have become is shown by the recent decision by the Supreme Court of the state of Washington that lying politicians are protected by the 1st Amendment.  They are free to lie as much as they can get away with.  Free speech apparently is a green light for lying, even though it leads to rotten, dishonest government.

Lies entertain.  Honesty disturbs.  Honesty produces painful truths about the nation, government, and failed public policies.  Truth-telling politicians usually say things that people would rather not hear and or think about.

Meanwhile the mainstream media and pundits, promoting confrontation and horse races to entertain and keep their audiences, are reluctant to call lying politicians liars.  Instead, they use oblique language and euphemisms to conceal the truth about lying.  They are as dishonest as the politicians they talk about.  How interesting it would be to have media people ask candidates something like: Are you being the most honest person you can be in this campaign?  I don’t think the majority of dishonest ones would not say “yes.”  Instead, they would dance and blabber.

Al Gore, BBC win International Emmy Awards
November 20, 2007

By Chris Michaud

New York - Former Vice President Al Gore won another honour on Monday when he received the Founders Award at the International Emmy Awards, which also gave a top prize to a controversial British television film about the assassination of President George W Bush.

Death Of President, which explores the aftermath of Bush's assassination in Chicago in October 2007, won the International Emmy for best TV movie or miniseries, leading a pack of winners from the United Kingdom and the BBC that dominated the 35th annual awards.

The award was presented moments after Gore accepted his honour, an annual prize that recognised his role in launching Current TV, a cable and satellite network that uses viewer-created content.

Gore, accepting from Oscar-winning actor Robert De Niro, said in brief remarks that the future of world democracy "depends to a surprising degree on democratising TV." Current TV was thus born of the idea of connecting the Internet to television, Gore said.

The former vice president, who ran against Bush in 2000 in a disputed election that was decided by a divided US Supreme Court, also used the occasion to lobby on behalf of the environment, saying "the climate crisis is by far the most serious challenge the human race has ever faced."

Earlier this year Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize, and graced the stage at the Academy Awards when the documentary about his lecture tour on global warming, "An Inconvenient Truth" won the Oscar. He also won a prime-time Emmy for Current TV.

De Niro injected a political note, saying that Gore had been "voted out of office by the Supreme Court" in 2000.

http://www.reuters.com/article/entertain...

"the climate crisis is by far the most serious challenge the human race has ever faced."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

things were a little tense humanity wise when the cold war had produced hundreds of large bombs and no control protocols to speak of

The cold war was a threat of what could happen. Global warming is a threat of what is happening.

To:      Biden campaign leaders

Meanwhile, the pundits agree that Senator Biden is continuing to build momentum in Iowa and could surprise the field.  As Chris Cilliza of Washington Post wrote on Friday:  “Despite his lack of resources, Biden has been able to win considerable support among Iowa elected officials, and his messaging on Iraq -- a three-state solution -- is perhaps the clearest and most reasonable of any of the candidates running.  Should Biden gain strength, he could well have a real impact on the Big 3 in Iowa.”

And in New Hampshire, Joe was tough on his fellow Democrats, according to the Union Leader, saying that the “three front-runners in the Democratic presidential race are using ‘Bill Clinton triangulation and ‘Karl Rove anger’ to deliver a divisive message as they fight for approval of the party's liberal base. It's an approach Biden says will make it nearly impossible for the one who survives the nominating battle and the general election to govern effectively.”  New Hampshire Union Leader,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 his messaging on Iraq -- a three-state solution

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

note to Fred, this comes from the Biden campaign 

Biden Chides Democrats for Losing Approach, Nov. 10, 2007.

Phil....

Kucinich has been in Iowa. Maybe you couldn't hear him for all the hoopla from the others.

It is not good that all that money should be spent in one state where it is expected that all of the candidates get up close and personal.

I never lived in a state like that. I always had to seek out information for myself. When we go to a national primary on the same day, it will be impossible for all the candidates to get around to everyone's living room, and Iowans will have to put in some effort on their own.

In the meantime, don't you think it's being a wee bit spoiled to say you won't vote for someone who doesn't pay enough attention to Iowa
and is spending limited campaign funds where he thinks it will do the most good?

wanting to rid the world of nuclear weapons is a noble cause also

The India nuke deal is going to come before the Senate

how will they vote?

audrey

 won't vote for Kucinich because I have met him and his platform is good but the odds of him being able to put together a winning national campaign are zero in part because be can't even mount one in a small state. I do understand the urge to support him though since he is the only progressive of the bunch.

electability is not a main criteria of mine but total futility isn't my bag either

electability is not a main criteria of mine but total futility isn't my bag either

There's nothing futile in voting one's conscience.

Phil....

Good enough, I'm not capable of trying to figure who the winner will be, so will stay with Kucinich as long as he keeps fighting for
me. The very least he can do is hold some feet to the fire. I really don't think anyone knows where this election is going.

The cold war was a threat of what could happen. Global warming is a threat of what is happening.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

nuclear proliferation is a threat of what is happening, global warming is a threat of what is happening

walk and chew gum? 

I'd like to wish everyone here an early but very Happy Thanksgiving. I have lots of family and friends coming in so we'll be so busy. The chatter should be interesting because we have some Hillary, Obama and Edwards supporters coming. Can't wait to hear them talk up their candidates.

For those traveling - be safe. I'm off to buy the wine!

mary

I'm glad Kucinich is in the race too Audrey. His voice adds to the debate. here in Iowa, anywhere he becomes viable will probably be at the expense of Richardson who is the only other Out. Now. candidate

single payer devotees are locked in

15.

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
11:43 am


electability is not a main criteria of mine but total futility isn't my bag either
-------

Your "bag", Phil, (as well as mine and as many others') is not yours and is not ours, it is the one we are "presented" with.

Even though NO ONE of those "bags" can't stop history..., lol.

I'm looking forward to Thanksgiving too. Our family never misses a chance to talk politics. visitors from other states add to the dialogue since they have the national perspective versus the saturation which is Iowa

I might try to blog from there during the Packer game if they get a big lead.

bbl

20.

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
12:03 pm

I'm glad Kucinich is in the race...
------


Kucinich knows better than the most others Demos candidates WHAT needs to be done in this country, and even beyond, but even he does not know HOW?

Those who DO know HOW usually sustain very short campaign (like Dean, and, I expect, like Paul).

6.  I didn't realize I was being extreme, just posting what I thought. 

The reasons you state  why you can't support Obama are the reasons I do support him.  Everybody sees things differently.

8.  Congratulations to Gore, he certainly deserves all the kudos he receives.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

note to Fred, this comes from the Biden campaign 

Biden Chides Democrats for Losing Approach, Nov. 10, 2007

==================

Phil it is not a "three state" solution  it is a "three state union" solution

It is totally different than in Israel where the "two state solution" if it ever happens will most surely include forced "transfer" (ethnic cleansing) of Palestininians, referred to as "Israeli Arabs" the "enemy within"

In Iraq it will be a geographic, administrative security and political separation and nobody will be forced to move.

Socks is far and away the most experienced candidate, having spent more time in the White House than any of the people during the Clinton administration, who had to leave to give speeches, attend fundraisers, etc.

Vote for Socks!  Experience counts! 

24. so, you didn't want to end the war in Jun 2006, you don't believe in Universal or Single Payer Health Care, You were in favor of the lenders having freedom to charge anything they wish, you were in favor of the Patriot Act and you favored his Coal Bill, vs clearn and renewable energy. WOW, then I can see why you support Obama. At least you're honest or educated on his actual policiies and positions. Most people just wish him to do differently and rely on an a feeling they have ignoring the realities.

Hey Rich...my old friends from the 70's are still working in radio, well, one I know for sure. The other went in to larger scale production, but he was a DJ back then. The other one always did production and commercials...and still is. And still in the same area. Weird.

...exciting news coming from Florida...well, not necessarily for my efforts, but, still, for overall.

New Lawsuit Filed over Florida Primary Date
posted by John Kennedy on Nov 20, 2007 10:38:03 AM
Discuss This: Comments (4) | TrackBack (0) | Linking Blogs | Add to del.icio.us | Digg it

A lawsuit filed Tuesday seeks to overturn Florida's Jan. 29 presidential primary by claiming the state Legislature violated the rights of both the leading political parties and Florida voters by setting the early date.

"The state does not have the right to interfere with the method a church picks its pastor or priest, and it does not have the right to interfere with the way a political party selects its nominee," said Jon Ausman, Leon County's Democratic state committeeman, who is among six plaintiffs named in the lawsuit.

The suit argues that the Democratic and Republican parties have set rules prohibiting states other than Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina from holding primaries or caucuses before Feb. 5. When lawmakers agreed to advance Florida's presidential primary from its usual March date to Jan. 29, the Legislature effectively acted unconstitutionally, Ausman said.

If successful, Ausman said the state would likely revert to the March primary date -- or any other date that fits party rules and follows Feb. 5.

The suit was filed in Leon County Circuit Court and comes a month after a federal lawsuit over the primary date was filed by Florida Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson and U.S. Rep. Alcee Hastings, D-Miramar.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_po...


I'm off...be well

oops, one more

November 20, 2007 - 4:33AM
Poll: Giuliani passes McCain in Arizona
Comments 2 | Recommend 3
Paul Giblin, Tribune
Presidential contender Rudy Giuliani has edged ahead of John McCain among Republican voters in Arizona, marking a huge change in the GOP hierarchy just three months before Arizona voters cast ballots in the state’s presidential preference elections.

GRAPHIC: Presidential favorites
Read Paul Giblin's blog, Checking In

Most surveys have shown McCain’s support eroding since the beginning of the year, but the independent Rocky Mountain Poll released on Monday was the first major survey that put McCain behind any of his GOP rivals.

The survey pegged Giuliani’s support among Republican voters statewide at 20 percent.
McCain follows two points behind at 18 percent, which is within the survey’s margin of error.

Behind them, Mitt Romney trails at 11 percent support and Fred Thompson registers 10 percent.

On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton is opening a wide margin among her party’s other presidential contenders. She has 44 percent support, while her nearest rival, Barack Obama, is 30 points behind at 14 percent.

Clearly, though, the major headline from the poll is McCain, said Earl de Berge, research director of the Phoenix-based Behavior Research Center, which conducted the poll.

“He’s a favorite son in Arizona, and for him not to be able to just walk away with the nomination here strikes me as a story in itself,” de Berge said. “He should be head and shoulders above everybody else.”

McCain is running out of time to reverse the downward trend if he hopes to win his own state on Super Duper Tuesday, Feb. 5, when residents in 23 states will vote.

McCain commanded 40 percent support among Arizona Republicans in January, according to the Rocky Mountain Poll. His support slipped to 34 percent in March and crashed this

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/1...


Time for
a COOL
change
GORE
2008

Some great thoughts above............as people soon choose or have chosen their candidate for President, I hope they understand that a person or persons like in the Congress and other government positions hold and weigh so much power as to effect the rest of us much les other peoles in the world.

Also, it is a proven fact that indeed the best mond we have in his country..from academia to industry to religion to education to the average worker or homemaker either do not wish to enter politics or would never do so.............for obvious reasons that i find quite understandbale, at least here in America...............

The past 20 or so years are direct evidence that the most rationale, prudent, humane and honest people do not have  acareer i politics..................this is where the country has lost, is losing and will lose.................there might be a speckling of decent public servamts but the evidence is overwhelmng today that these so called people elected by the people do not really have the peoples real interests at heart, much less the country.

And for those that are starving for that leader that may magically appeal to them by demeanour alone, whether it be a haircut, smile, colour, candor.................just remember the past mistakes this nation has made in choosing is leaders.

one more thing,

I forgot to share.

NEWS: Recall, again.

Recalling all Butterball Turkeys.

................they forgot to butter their balls.


:D

27.  Now you are being extreme.

Everyone have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

28...just saw....WELL SAID.

Obama's New Ideas Garner Favor in Iowa

http://www.abcnews.go.com/print?id=3887274

rich^kolker
Tue, 11/20/07
12:28 pm

Ah, so this is your big career change. Campaign manager for a cat....good move!!!

................they forgot to butter their balls.

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 11/20/07
12:56 pm

LOL. If true, recalling turkeys before Tgiving. That ought to rile up everyone! What reason????

Another turkey recall.....

Impeach Cheney!!

Indy, I sure hope you saw why........:)

See, I should know better than to post something like that and leave...maybe that's why I'm back. LOL

Experts Praise Barack Obama's Education Plan

http://www.newsobserver.com/1566/story/782110.html

This is a semi-drive by - I posted to Phil and Monica about the tax and Obama on the previous thread b/c I'm foggy today. Anyway, if Pelosi doesn't put impeachment back on the table for this then she needs to BE impeached (if that's possible):

McClellan: Bush was in on Plame
by MLDB [Subscribe]

Tue Nov 20, 2007 at 06:59:15 AM PST

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/20...

Gotta go -- bbl

“It is no longer OK to say that Obama flat-out supports the liquefaction of coal,” David Willett, national press secretary of the Sierra Club, said. “Obama has looked at the issue more closely and has a much more detailed plan for dealing with global warming.”

http://cityonahillpress.com/article.php?id=800

Phil it is not a "three state" solution  it is a "three state union" solution

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fred

that post was from the official Biden campaign

in case you haven't caught this yet,

http://www.vetvoice.com/

is challenging the Presidential contenders to respond to certain questions via this new blog.  check it out.  here's the news blurb:

clip..

We're launching VetVoice.com, which we hope will become the hub on the internet for those who served in the wars, their families, and those civilian supporters who believe that our military policies and veterans policies are not the best they can be. Think of it as a virtual watering hole, where troops and veterans air out their views, and we have a discussion about it.

Today, we're starting things off with a bang. We've invited each of the Presidential candidates, of both parties, to come and post their views on these issues, and how they would change things as Commander in Chief. We hope this will stoke a lot of conversation and debate, which will carry through the life of the blog.

We're posting a new candidate's message every hour and fifteen minutes, going in the order they got back to us. That order and times of posting are:

9:30am EST - Senator John Edwards
10:45 - Representative Ron Paul
12:00pm - Senator Chris Dodd
1:15 - Senator Hillary Clinton
2:30 - Senator Barack Obama
3:45 - Senator Joe Biden

I've been meaning to post the "Socks for President" message ever since I first hear Hillary talk about all her "White House Experience."

But no, that's not the career change if it happens, and I won't know if it's happening for a couple of months minimum, so we should all take a step back, and I'll let you all know if anything's happening. 

In an unrelated matter, I'll get to experience the criminal justice system for the first time week after next, as I have been subpoenaed to testify in a burglary case (I was the victim, not the burglar).  I've sat on a jury once, but that was in traffic court.  It should be an interesting way to pass an afternoon.

Let's see where this ends up.  By my clock it's 1:30 pm EST 

Phil.....

What's funny to me is ....you say Biden is coming up in the polls in Iowa. Now here's someone who has been in congress forever, how much presence does he have in Iowa, comparatively speaking? His percentage in the polls was lower or tie with Kucinich when he was invited to the JJdinner and Kucinich was not. What makes the difference? Kucinich isn't acceptable to the Iowa Party or establishment. The DesMoines Register didn't like Dean either.

Biden is doing very well suddenly in Iowa ---

The SURGE has FAILED and ended:  Our soldiers aren't dying for the Maliki government anymore on the streets of Baghdad, as the Democrats demanded.  POINT of the surge was to give the government time to 'agree on a few things'.  At least 300 U.S. soldiers died as a result of this last ditch, foolish Bush plan; backed by the only General who would even go along with it.  BE-TRA-US (Who by the way, has talked about running for President@!)  and the frightened Republican SHEEP.

FOX news stated that - The President is REDEPLOYING the troops.  (out of harms way), as the Democrats and American people have demanded.

Almost EVERY ONE of the neocon horrible people surrounding Bush have been OUSTED.  Thanks to the Democrats having just enough power to invesigate.

The word IMPEACHMENT has come up and - is in the records.  But the Democrats are too busy saving our country and saving our soldiers to deal with that right now.  The American people will 'impeach' them in 2008.

Republican candidates for President are a JOKE.  It will be a landslide for Democrats in 2008.  And we will have the biggest job any President and Congress has ever had in history...  CLEANING UP THE REPUBLICAN'S MESS!

Four years ago this afternoon, my post on the Blog for America, as part of a thread on the energy bill then before Congress...

Re: Regulation

There's nothing wrong with regulation.

Regulation brought us safe foods and effective drugs.

Regulation helps keep the airplanes from falling out of the sky and the tires from falling off your car.

Regulation provides you with a workplace safe from hazards and a hot water heater in your home that won't explode.

Regulation happened because unregulated business abuses the people. This became so obvious in the early part of the 20th Century that a whole movement grew up among the people to regulate business for the good and safety of "We the people".

Don't fall into the trap of letting the GOP define our words, we should define our words and what they mean. 

As if America needs one more reason to fall in love with Barack Obama.

Beyond the unabashed idealism, stirring oratory skills, touching life story, and knee-buckling smile that have made this candidate for Illinois' open Senate seat the new beau ideal of progressive politics, it so happens that this guy is a bona fide, card-carrying, bleeding-heart greenie.

And it's not as though Muckraker didn't rifle through his environmental record going back more than a decade to try to find something off-kilter -- some skeleton in the closet, some flaw to make him a mere mortal. But all we found were accolades and evidence of true conviction.

Obama's comments at the League of Conservation Voters' pro-Kerry rally last week -- made only hours before he delivered the convention speech that catapulted him onto the national stage and elicited comparisons to Martin Luther King Jr. and John F. Kennedy -- brought enviros to their knees.

"Environmentalism is not an upper-income issue, it's not a white issue, it's not a black issue, it's not a South or a North or an East or a West issue. It's an issue that all of us have a stake in," Obama shouted. "And if I can do anything to make sure that not just my daughter but every child in America has green pastures to run in and clean air to breathe and clean water to swim in, then that is something I'm going to work my hardest to make happen."

The crowd went bananas in response to this call for unity across ethnic and socio-economic lines, as though they'd been waiting for exactly this kind of dynamic leader to free environmentalism from the perception that it's predominately a white upper-middle-class issue.

Obama's environmental activism stretches back to his undergrad days at Columbia University, during which he did a three-month stint with a Ralph Nader offshoot organization trying to convince minority students at City College in Harlem to recycle. Later, when he worked as a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago, he fought for lead abatement in the Altgeld Gardens neighborhood.

After getting a law degree from Harvard, Obama became a civil-rights lawyer and then in 1996 was elected to the Illinois state senate, representing the 13th district on Chicago's South Side, where he distinguished himself as a leader on environmental and public-health issues. In 2003, Obama was one of six state senators to receive a 100 Percent Environmental Voting Record Award from the Illinois Environmental Council.

His efforts on behalf of the environment have been so consistent and comprehensive, in fact, that LCV and the Sierra Club endorsed Obama in his bid for Congress this year over half a dozen other Democrats competing in the primary. Last month, the LCV named him a 2004 Environmental Champion, one of 18 sitting and prospective members of Congress to receive the award.

Obama is "by far one of the most compelling and knowledgeable politicians on the environment I've ever sat in a room with," Mark Longabaugh, senior vice president for political affairs at LCV, told Muckraker. "I've been playing national politics for more than 20 years and I quite literally can't remember one person I've met -- even on a national level -- who was more in command of facts, more eloquent, and more passionate on these issues than Sen. Obama."

Obama's commitment to environmental protection has a personal component: His six-year-old daughter, Malia, has chronic asthma, a fact he often cites when defending the long list of initiatives he has pushed to clean up smog and air pollution in his state. And many of his constituents suffer from the same condition. "More people die from asthma attacks in Chicago than anywhere else in the country," said Brian Urbaszewski, director of environmental health programs for the American Lung Association of Metropolitan Chicago. "And Illinois has the highest African-American death rate from asthma in the country -- four times the national average."

This year, Obama made an aggressive move to stem the tide of pollution from Illinois' coal plants -- which produce nearly 50 percent of the state's electricity -- by introducing a bill that would in effect block the Bush administration's rollback of the Clean Air Act's new-source review rules from being carried out in his state. "This is a very complex issue, but Obama took it by storm," Urbaszewski told Muckraker. "He dove headfirst into all the complexities and wouldn't quit until he had a solution."

According to Jack Darin, who, as director of the Sierra Club's Illinois chapter, has worked with Obama closely on these issues, "He's an incredibly quick study. He's not a scientist, but remarkably adept at analyzing the details of complex environmental issues, asking the right questions, and ultimately making the right policy decision for public interest."

To build support for cleaner air, Obama opened a dialogue with the coal-mining industry about how better pollution controls on power plants could help create new markets for Illinois coal. Most of the coal now being burned in Illinois comes from Wyoming and other Western states, which has hurt the Illinois coal industry. But Illinois coal is cleaner in terms of pollutants such as mercury. Obama argued that cracking down on mercury pollution from coal-fired plants would give Illinois coal a competitive advantage over Western coal.

"Most politicians have forever played the interests of the coal industry and the environment against each other," said Darin, "but Obama found a way to argue soundly that we can put mine workers back to work while making the air cleaner."

Obama has taken on energy matters in Illinois as aggressively as air-quality protection. As state senator, he is cosponsoring a pending measure that would require 10 percent of the electricity generated in the state to come from renewable sources by 2012, and he supports another pending bill that would tighten energy-efficiency codes in residential and commercial buildings.

And Obama is making energy independence one of the top three priorities in his campaign for a seat in the U.S. Senate, according to his spokesperson, Robert Gibbs. He has pledged to endorse legislation that would require 20 percent of America's power supply to be generated by renewable sources by 2020, as well as regulations that would boost Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards to 40 miles per gallon for cars.

The list doesn't stop there. Obama has fought for tougher standards on diesel engines, waged battles against urban sprawl and the destruction of Illinois' wetlands, and mobilized residents in Chicago's lowest-income neighborhoods to block toxic dumping in their communities.

It's particularly notable that Obama has gone out on a political limb to advance environmental protections. "Illinois is a heavily industrial state, and a tough place for environmentalists and other progressives," said Darin. "Illinois is a state that has no limits on campaign financing, meaning the special interests are well entrenched." But Obama has never capitulated, said Darin, and for most of his time in the state senate, he has been in the minority, arguing against the political grain with surprising success.

Nothing could better prepare him for the current scene in Washington, D.C.

http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2004/08/04/griscom-obama/

audrey

Kuchinich doesn't have an official office in the state, no staff, and no manager.(unless he has added one since JJ)

Dodd and Biden are adding staff each month, and I have a local number to call with a question for all except Richardson who combined two counties(maybe because his staffer is so talented he can handle two)

Obama,Clinton, and Edwards have had staff in place in every county since summer.

the advantage is that if a undecided voter shows up with a question they can get a direct answer

all except Kucinich offer that

Poll numbers from NH, four years ago (numbers in parens are previous poll)

Dean 38 (38)
Kerry 17 (24)
Clark 7 (4)
Lieberman 5 (4)
Edwards 4 (4)
Gephardt 4 (3)
Kucinich 3 (1)
Braun 1 (1)
Sharpton 0 (0)

Alarming UN report on climate change too rosy, many say

By Elisabeth Rosenthal and James Kanter
Published: November 18, 2007


VALENCIA, Spain: The blunt and alarming final report of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, released here by UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon, may well underplay the problem of climate change, many experts and even the report's authors admit.

The report describes the evidence for human-induced climate change as "unequivocal." The rise in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere thus far will result in an average rise in sea levels of up to 4.6 feet, or 1.4 meters, it concluded.

"Slowing - and reversing - these threats is the defining challenge of our age," Ban said upon the report's release Saturday.

Ban said he had just completed a whirlwind tour of some climate change hot spots, which he called as "frightening as a science-fiction movie."

He described ice sheets breaking up in Antarctica, the destruction of the Amazon rainforest in Brazil, and children in Chile having to wear protective clothing because an ozone hole was letting in so much ultraviolet radiation.
Today in Europe

The panel's fourth and final report summarized and integrated the most significant findings of three sections of the panel's exhaustive climate-science review that were released from January through April, to create an official "pocket guide" to climate change for policy makers who must now decide how the world will respond.

The first covered climate trends; the second, the world's ability to adapt to a warming planet; the third, strategies for reducing carbon emissions. With their mission now concluded, the hundreds of IPCC scientists spoke more freely than they had previously.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/18/e...

A world dying, but can we unite to save it?

Pollution in the seas is now speeding global warming, says a devastating new climate report. 'IoS' Environment Editor

Geoffrey Lean reports from Valencia
Published: 18 November 2007

Humanity is rapidly turning the seas acid through the same pollution that causes global warming, the world's governments and top scientists agreed yesterday. The process – thought to be the most profound change in the chemistry of the oceans for 20 million years – is expected both to disrupt the entire web of life of the oceans and to make climate change worse.

The warning is just one of a whole series of alarming conclusions in a new report published by the official Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which last month shared the Nobel Peace Prize with former US vice president Al Gore.

Drawn up by more than 2,500 of the world's top scientists and their governments, and agreed last week by representatives of all its national governments, the report also predicts that nearly a third of the world's species could be driven to extinction as the world warms up, and that harvests will be cut dramatically across the world.

United Nations Secretary- General Ban Ki-moon, who attended the launch of the report in this ancient Spanish city, told The Independent on Sunday that he found the "quickening pace" of global warming "very frightening".

And, with unusual outspokenness for a UN leader, he said he "looked forward" to both the United States and China – the world's two biggest polluters – "playing a more constructive role" in vital new negotiations on tackling climate change that open in Indonesia next month.

The new IPCC report, which is designed to give impetus to the negotiations, highlights the little-known acidification of the oceans, first reported in this newspaper more than three years ago. It concludes that emissions of carbon dioxide – the main cause of global warming – have already increased the acidity of ocean surface water by 30 per cent, and threaten to treble it by the end of the century.

Achim Steiner, the executive director of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), said yesterday: "The report has put a spotlight on a threat to the marine environment that the world has hardly yet realised. The threat is immense as it can fundamentally alter the life of the seas, reducing the productivity of the oceans, while reinforcing global warming."

Scientists have found that the seas have already absorbed about half of all the carbon dioxide emitted by humanity since the start of the industrial revolution, a staggering 500 billion tons of it. This has so far helped slow global warming – which would have accelerated even faster if all this pollution had stayed in the atmosphere, already causing catastrophe – but at an increasingly severe cost.

The gas dissolves in the oceans to make dilute carbonic acid, which is increasingly souring the naturally alkali seawater. This, in turn, mops up calcium carbonate, a substance normally plentiful in the seas, which corals use to build their reefs, and marine creatures use to make the protective shells they need to survive. These include many of the plankton that form the base of the food chain on which all fish and other marine animals depend.

As the waters are growing more acid this process is decreasing, with incalculable consequences for the life of the seas, and for the fisheries on which a billion of the world's people depend for protein. Every single species that uses calcium in this way, that has so far been studied, has been found to be affected. And the seas are most acid near the surface, where most of their life is concentrated.

A report by the Royal Society, Britain's premier scientific body, concludes that, as a result, of the pollution, the world's oceans are probably now more acidic that they have ever been in "hundreds of millennia", and that even if emissions stopped now, the waters would take "tens of thousands of years to return to normal".

http://environment.independent.co.uk/cli...

IPCC: Changes must occur before 2012 or it is too late

After giving an interview lastweek when the IPCC declared that folks should be concerned, because they are always on the conservative side, so if they have informaiton that raises alarms, you should know it will be their timeline, or sooner.

Ban calls climate change 'defining challenge of our age'

"Today the world's scientists have spoken, clearly and in one voice," Ban said as he released the final report of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. "In Bali I expect the world's policymakers to do the same.

"The breakthrough needed in Bali is for a comprehensive climate change deal that all nations can embrace.

"

Far more powerfully then ever before, members of the UN panel said Saturday that their review of the data had led them to conclude that reductions in greenhouse gases had to start immediately to avert a global climate disaster that could leave island states submerged and abandoned, decrease African crop yields by 50 percent and lower global economic output by 5 percent or more.

The panel, co-winner of this year's Nobel Peace Prize, said the world would have to reverse the growth of greenhouse gas emissions by 2015 to avert major problems. "If there's no action before 2012, that's too late, there is not time," said Rajendra Pachauri, a scientist and economist who heads the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

http://iht.com/articles/2007/11/17/news/...

hi Mark

Thanks so much for mentioning the Progressive Values Documentary project!

The group also maintains a discussion listserver at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProgressiveValues/
Come on over if you'd like to talk more about Progressive Values. It's all values all the time.

Also we invite you to join the DFA What are Progressive Values? Study Group at
http://www.dfalink.com/group.php?id=2285
It's been the fastest growing DFA link group for the past couple of weeks. 

We'll be holding our first in person meeting Nov 27 if you're in the Bay Area, we'd love to see you all there.
http://progressivespirit.com/StudyGroup/
Next meeting; November 27, 2007
Meeting times: 6:00 to 7:30
Meeting Place Location: 6830 Stockton Ave. El Cerrito CA

edwin
http://progressivespirit.com

May I make a general request that we try to not post complete, long articles.  Instead, post the first couple of sentences and a link.

Thanks. 

Yes, Rich, but I didn't, I posted 3 pieces of 3 different articles.....I do realize one piece was longer, sorry.

What makes the difference? Kucinich isn't acceptable to the Iowa Party or establishment.

Process over substance.  

you can look to % votes made between the four Senators to kind of judge how much time they have spent in Iowa since it is a long flight back

I know Biden an Dodd flew back together for at least one vote.

I'm just going to shorthand this in the extreme, but you have a historic candidate in a woman that is connected to a popular President. She would be viable if she hadn't put together a fully funded staff state wide with some very talented people.

Edwards also has a good staff, but he has traveled the state twice over and knows Iowa like the back of his hand fielding hundreds of direct face to face questions.

Obama is a rock star and draws big crowds and is more prone to speeches. (the nature of his events) and has matched the other two with staffing

Richardson was up early with some very clever TV and has a clear difference in his views on taking all the troops out

Biden and Dodd both have ads and staff but are playing catchup, but if they were going to catch fire would be able to capitalize

who knows where Kucinich would have been had he participated

Iowa has had a good look at the other six and I still see a basic three way tie that decides nothing unless there is a surprise strong fourth

For our Progressive Values Documentary Project, I've been trying to figure out how to get the presidential candidates
to talk explicitly about Progressive Values and to get them on tape
doing it. What do they have to say about caring, empathy, community,
justice and how do they feel these values compare to conservative
values.

I was very pleased when I came across the Center for Community change
website. This is an organization of community organizations and they
ask the question: What are Community Values?
http://www.communitychange.org/iowa-heartland-forum

They are holding a presidential debate on Dec 1, 2007 in
Iowa "Join Senators John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, Chris Dodd,
Barack Obama, Dennis Kucinich, and 5,000 every-day people in Iowa to
ask our next president how they will challenge the "on your own"
mentality of the right and build a new politics based on Community
Values."

I think this is great to get the candidates to talk about community
values. The Center has several video clips about Community Values,
you can see them here:

What Are Community Values?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqmj2EybIQI

more clips at:

http://youtube.com/group/ProgressiveValues
What Are Community Values?
Talking Values

Sam Ross...

That's the point..... the Dems are not too busy saving our country and our troops to impeach. they are too busy trying to find ways to stall until election day while our troops are dying. Our country is not being saved because how you do that is to impeach and not allow criminal leaders to go unpunished to set examples for another crop of criminals.

Howard did much better than Clinton did in 92 and it wouldn't have had to be all or nothing had the campaign not decided to make it so.

If Dodd or Biden surprise as a strong fourth place finish they will be looked at in other states. (and be able to raise money)

If Clinton comes in fourth it would be curtain time, but that ain't gonna happen.

so all the rest of you need to find out how your state allocates nominating convention delegates because the race very well might come to your state in the spring

the Iowa difference is that second choices matter

For our Progressive Values Documentary Project, I've been trying to figure out how to get the presidential candidates
to talk explicitly about Progressive Values and to get them on tape
doing it. What do they have to say about caring, empathy, community,
justice and how do they feel these values compare to conservative
values.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John Edwards did that in answers to questions here at DFA. But I'll see if I have a link to his first speech in NOLA after he announced there as it directly speaks to that

McClellan says Bush was in on Plame?   Well, duh.  I told you so.  It was the formulation that gave it away.  "Joe Wilson's wife."  I could almost hear him say "Oh, yeah, the guy with the young wife that works for the CIA."

So, why did it have to be such a big secret?  Because the Bush connection with the CIA is a forbidden topic.  When Bush One came here for the graduation exercises last year, his tenure as head of the CIA was left out of his biography.  Any why are the documents from his tenure as VP and as President still under seal?  Because his connection to the clandestine service is not supposed to be revealed.

And then you had Wilkes, the special friend of Foggo, getting himself a contract to digitize the documents from the Panama invasion, which the DoD said had already been done.  Why would he even think to suggest such a contract?  Who put him up to it?  What better way to get rid of documents you don't want to see the light of day than to have them 'accidentally" lost while they were being processed.  December 20, 1989. 

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
1:49 pm

Appreciate the analysis from on the ground in Iowa...if there's one thing we know all too well is that polls now mean very little. So all campaigns should be on the ground in Iowa, NH and SC doing all they can....lower the expectations and raise the results. That is the key.

Maybe I'll make a trip to Iowa after Christmas.

Edwards and Obama should be doing all they can to lower expectations about finishing first in Iowa....it is only the "surprise" factor that has any relevance. Edwards is best poised to be surprising now that he is running third in the polls.

 The only valid use of polls now, IMO, is to lower expectations. Let someone be the "front-runner" and raise expectations.

Phil it is not a "three state" solution  it is a "three state union" solution

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fred

that post was from the official Biden campaign

====================================

I know but sometimes I wish even the website were more articulate because there is so much spin about it.  People don't really understand the meaning of words like "partition" in context and the people who write for Biden, even supportive,  are often no exception.

Biden is doing very well suddenly in Iowa ---

====================================

He could do what Kerry did in 2004, but this time for the right reasons.  I think he has the best position on all issues

-with the exception of universal health care, and maybe on the Jewish State (Israel) which is not a democracy any more than Jim Crow was on the Indian Reservation.

But then again, i haven't found a candidate that makes me happy on those two issues.

61.  Phil

Any clip on youtube that I find that addresses Progressive Values, I add to the ProgressiveValues  youtube group.  If you join the group, you can add clips directly, otherwise  post it here and I'll add it. It's a central location for Progressive Values related videos.
 http://youtube.com/groups_videos?name=ProgressiveValues

I would like to see the candidates just talking among each other, not arguing, but talking about what Progressive Values are. How are the values  important, how they're better than Conservative values, etc.  It would help the progressive movement.   The candidates act more like free agents looking out for themselves instead of team members trying to build a Progressive movement.  I think they would all identify as being Progressive. Even Hilary said she's a Progressive in the CNN/Youtube debate. We'll what have they done to articulate their shared Progressive values lately.

here's one John Edwards clip I did have.

John Edwards - Q&A: Faith & Honesty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVvll0n0epA

58.  I disagree.  It's not the "on your own" mentality that drives conservatives.  "On your own" is a deception.  What they're really into is "on my terms."  In other words, do it my way or its the highway.

The person who was quoted on the role of tasers in police forces had an interesting way of putting it.  He said it represents a move from policing by community consensus to the par-military mode.  In other words, it's a move from agreement to domination.  Agreement involves an individual commitment; domination involves involuntary subordination.  In fact, there is no "your own" when domination is involved, except in the sense that "if you don't survive, it's your own fault." 

58.

WhatAre Progressive Values
Tue, 11/20/07
1:52 pm



Hi Edwin.

I really like the drumm beat in the video about community values. Drums send good messages.

66.

Edwards and Obama should be doing all they can to lower expectations about finishing first in Iowa

Steve,

Agree on that. The stock market as well as others, use this logic when they make claims before certain results are to be known.

When a stock or company doesn't do as badly as it had previously and purposefully announced it would, it suddenly becomes a "winner" even though it lost value. It's much overused now, but still effective.

49.

rich^kolker
Tue, 11/20/07
1:32 pm


Re: Regulation

There's nothing wrong with regulation...
---------
Absolutely..., ONLY IF it is SELF-IMPOSED, which is a FREEDOM!

71

hi  Susan

I didn't create that clip but just linked to it.. 

 but yes, music is important in a video and I've been looking for  good sources of music for my videos as well.  there's a lot of canned music one can use, but I'd like to find original music that is Progressively inspired.  any suggestions?  what new music embodies the progressive movement?

remember my Dance and inspiration video?  I think you mentioned you saw it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7074343929213252763
that music helped a lot to make it more interesting. 

edwin

48.

Sam Ross
Tue, 11/20/07
1:26 pm


...And we will have the biggest job any President and Congress has ever had in history... CLEANING UP THE REPUBLICAN'S MESS!
--------

The very same things in essence Reps are repeating with exact same recurrence (4 or 8 years). There are some variations though: RESTORING MORAL VALUES and DIGNITY TO THE OVAL OFFICE, etc...., lol.

76.

WhatAre Progressive Values
Tue, 11/20/07
3:19 pm


You may want to ask mprov that question. mprov is into variety of musical expressions.

I like jazz. I think it's very progressive.

49.

rich^kolker

There's nothing wrong with regulation...
---------
Absolutely..., ONLY IF it is SELF-IMPOSED, which is a FREEDOM!

==========================

You got to be kidding.  The only people who are free are the polluters.  A football team doesn't have the freedom to make their own rules and get rid of the referree.

The government is the only entity that can make rules and enforce them.  Companies will never take the toxins out of their products, or stop making toxic products, because their lawyers tell them that would make a case that they admit they are toxic products and will lose liability cases. 

Not talking against tort either.  It is the only damper we have for toxic products in the laxity (or re-lax-ity, ex-lax-ity, etc.) of regulation.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/

By Jeff Zeleny

Talking cats!!

What next?

My parrot Pepe meows like a cat and calls the kitty too.

He (or she) barks like a dog (several different barks and woofs), whistles for him, tells him to roll over and even demonstrats how to rollover by rolling his head over and over until dizzy.

Needless to say he has been on  America's Funniest Videos and The Planet's Funniest Animals. He made a few hundred bucks onPlanet and two T-shirts which don't fit him. But other than that, he needs to get a job.

66.

Indy Steve
Tue, 11/20/07
2:14 pm


Edwards and Obama should be doing all they can to lower expectations about finishing first in Iowa....it is only the "surprise" factor that has any relevance. Edwards is best poised to be surprising now that he is running third in the polls.

The only valid use of polls now, IMO, is to lower expectations. Let someone be the "front-runner" and raise expectations.
---------

...lol, Isn't that funny, Steve?

Are we playing sport game to win?
Nope, we are playing politics...., which then renders on our own real life.
So get ready to lose because life is a game according to that "steel" logic. Pay attention we, "the People", primarily and almost always losing, politics always winning!

Nice game (sarcasm)!

76.

WhatAre Progressive Values
Tue, 11/20/07
3:19 pm


Sounds of nature may be good for the project. I like the sounds of the dancing waters in this video you made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QEo1iRyV...

I'll see if I can get Senator Dodd to answer the "Progressive Values" question.

He had them when he volunteered for the Peace Corps for sure.

To go further...and explain a bit about what I think it means to be Progressive...is to focus a bit more on the underlying support mechanism of capitalism, government and policy: Economics.

I believe that there is an economic solution to everything. Capitalism, tempered with good government, can solve many of our social dilemmas. I do not believe privatization is the answer to everything, but I also believe that government ownership isn't either. There are certain things that need heavy government regulation for such as health care/drugs, energy, and infrastructure...things that we all need to survive in this civil day and age. Government regulation, to me, does not mean taking the profit out of something, to the contrary, it means creating a system that allows private enterprise to make money while ensuring that the peoples' needs are met.

'To provide for the common welfare...' as the Constitution states means just that: ensure that health care needs are met, provide good education, good roads and energy supplies, a clean environment, ensure good jobs, ensure a safety net for those that cannot work...basically things that encourage a healthy and prosperous society.

There is profit to be made in all of these things. With good corporate policies paired with good government policy, we can do anything. Profitable enterprises brings investable dollars from out of nowhere to accomplish things we have thought otherwise unatainable: the internet, cell phones, cable TV, drug research, the automobile and airplane, electric power... the list goes on and on of how profitable enterprises helped revolutionize industry around the world. If left to government alone, we would have none of these things today, and it was the Democracy and capitalism that was born of the United States that brought all of these things to the forefront. Along the way, there was government regulation to ensure business would not take advantage of the people to the sole ends of profit. Whether it was anti-monopolization laws and child labor laws of the early 20th century, or accounting and media consolidation laws being discussed now, government plays THE integral role in ensuring that the 'general welfare' is being looked after.

Progressive values in government is what addresses these things. To reverse global warming, our government must take the appropriate steps to incent the process. To ensure there are fair wages and tax systems, the government must step in to ensure it. In addition, we have to look at the overall budget. We are currently spending more than the rest of the world combined on our military...we can slice parts of that budget off to fund things that go toward providing for our general welfare such as disaster relief, health care and education because these are just as applicable in 'providing for the common defense', as well. Cutting 20% off the military industrial budget and applying it to other areas of the economy to encourage environmentally friendly policies, produce better jobs and provide universal healthcare would be well spent, and leave us safer in the end.

No tax increases are necessary, just a reallocation of budget resources to encourage things that do us good, and discourage things that do us bad. In delivering the Progressive message, we must focus just as much on who will profit as we do on who will benefit, otherwise the message will never effectively get across.

As President Bill Clinton once said, "It's the economy stupid." Indeed it is...everything revolves around it. These are Progressive values.

Thanks for posting this as a comment, Betty!

oops...Becky :-)

You are welcome, David.  Thank you for writing it!  When I read it, I thought it was so clear and really represents the way I feel about why I am a Progressive. 

The whole part about being profitable as well as being beneficial to the public is what separates Progressives from Liberals; at least the general sterotype.

It was one of your e-mails to me that prompted me to write it, Becky :-)

I'm with you Fred

. I use a sports analogy with the regulation free, libertarian set. without officials, pro sports wouldn't be much fun to watch, with every other person on the sidelines with a video camera we  have instant replays with our touch football turkey day game, but no one's livelihood is at stake.

we have just witnessed what happens when you deregulate mortgage derivatives with the sub-prime paper debacle

lead toys from China?

I face all kinds of regulations as a milk producer and they all make sense to me (and it is a pretty thick manual)

The problem comes trying to compete against foreign sourced milk products without inspections at their end as there is some costs to some rules, and I see the de-regulation mindset as being a way for some trading company to generate trade where there should be none with false competitive advantage

82.

FRED from OR
Tue, 11/20/07
3:36 pm

Reply to this
72.
former
Tue, 11/20/07
3:02 pm

Reply to this


49.

rich^kolker

There's nothing wrong with regulation...
---------
Absolutely..., ONLY IF it is SELF-IMPOSED, which is a FREEDOM!

==========================

You got to be kidding.
******
Nope.


The only people who are free are the polluters.
******
Today, yes.
Are we talking here about the past (even present) or about the changes (e.g. brighter) future?


A football team doesn't have the freedom to make their own rules and get rid of the referree.
*********
Million times!
Ask players who are playing on a streets.
They ARE referees TO THEMSELFES you know why?... 'cause they OWN the game, it's THEIRS...and they SURPRISINGLY...lol, able to agree on the rules and then play and even have fun...WITHOUT the referee!


The government is the only entity that can make rules and enforce them.
********
Of course if people ARE "organisms" they need rules set up FOR them by HIGHER authority.


Companies will never take the toxins out of their products, or stop making toxic products
*********
Of course, untill the company....IS/ARE "the People" who work up there.

79.

Joan* In*Florida
Tue, 11/20/07
3:31 pm

...he needs to get a job.

----

How about that. Socks has now got some competition.


Pepe for President!

I agree that Teddy Roosevelt got it right.

When Bill Clinton's Anti-Trust Cheif investigated the hostile take-over of pork production by meat packers in 1998 he looked the other way (and then joined the industry robber barrons)

The very worst economic outcome is a marriage of government and capitalism where the power of the state is used as the enforcer of monopoly (Medicare D)

81.

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
3:33 pm

I'll see if I can get Senator Dodd to answer the "Progressive Values" question.

---


Thanks Phil!

former

==========

some interesting plays on words there

bad money drives out good

the chief economic function of the government is to back the currency

Just thought I would share this information for anyone who wants to support Hillary. I bought a bunch of stuff from http://www.hillarycampus.com for a rally that we had at my school and I just wanted to recommend it because it's inexpensive, fast and I know people don't have a lot of money to spend on bumper stickers and T shirts. They also have the lowest cost yard signs that I could find. I think we should be able to support Hillary without going broke!

91.

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
3:52 pm


The very worst economic outcome is a marriage of government and capitalism...
--------

Can't prevent it!
Natural path of how capital develops...., have to hit forehead against the wall...., then start thinking.

Fairy-tail about regulations is just what it is: fairy-tail.
Government of capital won't regulate its own producer!

No, Progressive does not mean make a profit on everything. That is irresponsible. Some things are rights and not meant to be a profitable source.

That sounds more like the DLC and Corporatists.

99.

FRED from OR
Tue, 11/20/07
4:14 pm


some interesting plays on words there
--------

good like with the game, life...(ours) is the game...ask Steve he knows game strategy...lol.

94.

Susan

Pepe thanks you for your support.

Would you care to make a contribution to his newly formed campaign?? He has no experience of course, but possibly has a few new tricks up his wing.

Hillary is the only one doing yard signs in NE Iowa.they look pretty lonely

Stephanie Kurylo

==============

Sorry - I gave up on Hillary after the Iran vote.  I'll vote for her if she win the candidacy, but I won't say "vote for hillary"  - My bumper sticker will say "Vote Democratic"

For example. Some don't want Universal Health Care, because they can't have the big cash cow the private health care is.

That is the DLC.

Do you think Health Care should be privatized to make money on peoples health, or do you thinkg Health care is a right?

at the least a fair way to value currency has to be a pre-requisite for fair trade

we are sticking the suckers with $.50 dollars instead of a tariff Fred

don't get mad get even

108.

Ha, Good idea Fred. Must remember that just in case.

100.

Joan* In*Florida
Tue, 11/20/07
4:12 pm



Does Pepe like peanuts?

Health care as a right is the progressive value, so is a basic diet, hence food stamps

when health care was not for third party profiteers but a service offered in the market place it took less than 10% of GDP and now what 17%

that is only an advance on Wall Street not to any American citizens

a debit card combined with a negative income tax could work to give food stamps and health care in a progressive fashion

too bad we ended welfare

Stephanie Kurylo
Tue, 11/20/07
4:20 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Staph,

If youre of college age........or nearing it........perhaps you should put that money to better use, like paying off your college................let the millionaires buy the signs, they can swing it............of course, if youre a millionaire, it aint gonna matter................

Health care as a right is the progressive value, so is a basic diet, hence food stamps

when health care was not for third party profiteers but a service offered in the market place it took less than 10% of GDP and now what 17%

==================================

When I was a kid it was 7%, but of course we did not have as much cancer and chronic degeneratives diseases, and we did not have the mostly-useless use of chemo, that takes credit for any who do recover.  The corporations win both ways - they make money polluting the human ecology, and then they clean up with the drugs to "cure" it, which is mostly selling hope from the medicine wagon.

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 11/20/07
4:20 pm

Progressive is about doing what is in the best interest of the people to create better conditions.  Better conditions are not just about better conditions for workers, but additionally about businesses that can do good for teh environment and in their communities while still making a profit (ie: government that incents this behavior)...the point is that one does not necessarily need to be exclusive of the other. 

Senator Dodd has a guest post on VetVoice, a blog by VoteVets.org that launched today. The post is on Dodd's veterans policy. Go read it at VetVoice.com.

You can also read Dodd's post, titled "A Contract Honored: My Veterans Policy," by clicking Read More below.

A Contract Honored: My Veterans Policy
by Senator Chris Dodd

I'd like to thank VetVoice for inviting me to contribute.  VoteVets has been a strong contributor to our political discourse on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and how we respect our veterans once they return. I look forward to America's veterans having this new platform to shape this important national discussion.

In my 30-plus years in Congress, one truth has become self-evident: We have no higher priority than the safety and well-being of America's veterans.  For all you have given us, you deserve nothing less than the very best from those elected to represent you.  You have sacrificed and given so much.  The least we can do in return is get results.

Today, our troops returning home are not getting the medical support they need and deserve.  Bureaucratic red-tape and substandard conditions at medical facilities hinder access to health and veterans benefits. Combat-wounded troops are increasingly relying on help from loved ones as they recuperate from devastating war injuries.  And military families are making unbelievable sacrifices - often seeing their loved ones' tours of duty extended again and again and having to care for them when they return.

That is not my America - and it is not how we treat those who have given so much to this great country of ours.  

That is why the very first step I will take as President is to overhaul the Disability and Compensation Systems.  

First, disability determinations will be made by an independent board within the VA, within 30 days, with benefits starting no more than two weeks later.

Second, disability ratings will reflect injuries related to PTSD and Traumatic Brain Injury - which we are seeing increasingly in troops returning from Iraq.

Third, veterans will be able to see private doctors if they do not live near a VA.  

And fourth, the VA will never be under funded again.  In a Dodd Administration, all service will be recognized and all veterans from all wars will get the care and benefits that they deserve.  

To provide input and oversight of how the government serves veterans, I will appoint a bipartisan Veteran's Advisory Panel comprised not of bureaucrats but veterans, military retirees and veterans' spouses across multiple generations. Findings and recommendations will be reported to Congress and the Executive Branch on an annual basis - and they will be acted upon.

But as any combat hero knows, when a soldier is injured, a family sacrifices.  I wrote the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA), which allows 12 weeks of leave during a time of need.  As President, I will extend FMLA to as much as 6 months for men and women who want to care for family members who were wounded wearing the uniform.  

I was proud to wear the uniform in the National Guard and Army Reserve - I know what it's like to serve along side patriotic young Americans.  That's why I've dedicated much of my career to working on behalf of veterans, from those suffering from Persian Gulf War illnesses, to pension benefits, to providing disability benefits to veterans exposed to radiation or toxic chemicals while in the service.  It's rooted in a simple adage: "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."  

With a President who can get results for a change, as I have for my career, those won't just be words - they will be promises kept to our nation's veterans.  A Contract honored.  

Congratulations once again to VetVoice for their launch and thank you for providing me the space to contribute to the start of a promising - and important - discussion. You can learn much more about my plan for veterans and the military at ChrisDodd.com/veterans.

114. I agree with "Progressive is about doing what is in the best interest of the people to create better conditions. " PEOPLE.

But progressive is not for Business interests, but yes, businesses can be progressive.


And yes, it "the point is that one does not necessarily need to be exclusive of the other"...but that is not what was being said upthread.

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 11/20/07
5:24 pm

Who are you referring to upthread?

  "But progressive is not for Business interests"

If you and I own a business, and we are both people, are we not Progressive? Some of our rights as citizens is to pursue business interests, is it not? If you and I decide to go into a business that sells solar cells for solar heating, shouldn't a Progressive ideal to be to have the government offer us incentives to do so because it is good for the environment?

Nobody ever said that Progressives are for business interests, but you are claiming that Progressives are specifically NOT for business interests.  Please explain.

...perhaps the miscommunication comes from the word 'business' that you may be attaching a specific meaning to.  It appears that when I say business, you are immediately thinking of GE, Pfizer, etc....when in fact I am referring to Ma and Pa at the corner store or incenting GE, Pfizer, etc. to change their business models: be 'better' for the public good, and you will make a profit, as opposed to: make a profit, and tell your consumers what is in the public good.

Ron Paul Wins by Double Digits with Religious Voters in Zogby Poll

TruthNews | November 20, 2007
Kurt Nimmo

In a blind poll commissioned by Jones Productions and TruthNews and conducted by telephone on November 14, potential Republican primary voters rated Ron Paul the most favorable Republican primary candidate based on his biographical details.

�Candidate A is a 10-term US Congressman from a large Southern state who is an advocate for a smaller government and individual liberty,� the short bio reads. �This candidate believes in strictly following the Constitution and has never voted to raise taxes. He has never voted in favor of the war in Iraq or the Patriot Act, and wants to bring troops home as soon as possible. As a former doctor, this candidate has delivered more than 4,000 babies. One of this candidate's goals is to return America to the gold standard, and he believes that the current monetary policy needs to be drastically overhauled because of the dollar's decline.�

(Article Continues Below)

32.9 percent of respondents from all included religious categories � Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish � rated Paul as desirable over the other candidates in the blind poll. Specifically, the poll results break down as follows:

Catholic: 30.4 percent
Protestant: 33.0 percent
Jewish: 17.1 percent

Paul's results far outpaced the other candidates by a significant margin. For instance, �Candidate C,� Fred Thompson, described as �a former two-term senator from a Southern state who was a long-time lobbyist before running for public office� and �an actor playing supporting roles in several major motion pictures before entering the Senate,� received a mere 5.3 percent in the poll results, while �Candidate D,� Rudy Giuliani, a �former two-term mayor of a major city in the Northeast,� who �is considered a moderate member of the party on social issues,� trailed Ron Paul significantly, receiving 16.6 percent of the total.

In September, Ron Paul did surprisingly well in the Values Voter Presidential Debate, sponsored by the Family Research Council, a conservative, pro-family organization. While Mike Huckabee won the debate with 63% of the vote, Ron Paul came in second with 12%, far out pacing Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson, and John McCain, all who remained in the single digits.

Is Ron Paul a solid candidate for conservative and Christian Americans? Laurence M. Vance, author of King James, His Bible, and Its Translators, seems to think so. By �the Christian Right's own criteria, their candidate ought to be Ron Paul,� writes Vance.

Ron Paul is a man of faith. He is a Protestant Christian and a regular churchgoer.

Ron Paul is pro-life. As a specialist in obstetrics/gynecology, he has delivered more than 4,000 babies. Dr. Paul is not just an opponent of partial-birth abortion; he is an opponent of abortion itself. He is also opposed to federal funding of embryonic stem cell research.

Ron Paul is a believer in family values. Unlike many Christian �leaders� and Republican politicians who have admitted to adulterous affairs and/or been married multiple times, Dr. Paul has been married to the same woman for fifty years. He and his wife have been blessed with five children and seventeen grandchildren.

As the Zogby poll demonstrates, Ron Paul is the candidate for Christians and conservatives alike, irrespective of the corporate media's attempts to marginalize him in favor of so-called �mainstream� Republican candidates who do not hold conservative values.

Fox Host Says Dissenters Should Be Tased
Kilmead laments that people who confront politicians aren't "beaten to a pulp," as establishment continues to sell war on anyone who disagrees with authority

Prison Planet | November 20, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

During a discussion about a Code Pink member heckling Hillary Clinton at a recent event, Fox News host Brian Kilmead said that people who confront politicians are "threatening" and should be Tased or "beaten to a pulp," as the establishment media continues to sell the idea that anyone who disagrees with authority should be brutally punished.

A segment on the Fox and Friends morning show yesterday turned into an opportunity for Kilmead to share his dictatorial fetish that dissenters be dealt with in the proper manner, as footage aired of Clinton's heckler being removed from the event by security.

(Article Continues Below)

�They should Tase this guy,� Kilmead says. �At one point with security so high and tensions on edge, don't you think they're going to get at the very least Tased or beaten to a pulp by somebody? These people look threatening.�

Watch the video.

A number of other recent high profile public confrontations were reeled off, some of which involved We Are Change members, to paint a picture of a growing threat that needed to be quashed.

As the screams of tasered University of Florida student Andrew Meyer played in the background, the presenters seemed to react with glee, after which Kilmead concluded, �I would be for Tasing anyone in Code Pink,� adding �I'm pro-Pink Tasing.�

As we have reported in-depth , this is all part of an intimidation campaign to silence dissent as the apparatus of the police state turns against anyone who questions authority.

Since Tasing is all part of "pain compliance," otherwise known as torture, why not go the whole hog and waterboard these potential terrorists? After all, if Ron Paul supporters are a terrorist threat, as CNN's Glenn Beck has so enthusiastically pushed recently , then how far should we go to protect America?

If it was good enough for the Nazis to torture their political foes then it's good enough for us, as Harvard Professor Alan Dershowitz made clear last week.

"There are some who claim that torture is a nonissue because it never works -- it only produces false information," wrote Dershowitz in the Wall Street Journal . "This is simply not true, as evidenced by the many decent members of the French Resistance who, under Nazi torture, disclosed the locations of their closest friends and relatives."

Wonderful - forget about those antiquated Geneva Conventions - let's use what the Nazis did as a role model for how to conduct ourselves and see where it gets us.

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 11/20/07
4:25 pm

Personally, I think we can have Universal health care, improve care, lower costs, AND still allow businesses to profit.  It is all about proper government policy and regulation, which we have none of right now.

Personally, I think we can have Universal health care, improve care, lower costs, AND still allow businesses to profit.  It is all about proper government policy and regulation, which we have none of right now.

No way.

Private health care has an overhead of 25 to 40% as opposed to single payer

I don't agree that incentives as government subsidies are the correct approach if they prevent market forces from forcing efficiencies, it is a marriage of the worst aspects of both. For every business advantaged by government support a competitor is dis-advantaged, You are kidding yourself if you don't think corn sunsidies and none for other crops have not driven the number of acres of corn in America, and those corn farmers outbid hay growers for land to the detriment of the environment.

Government subsidies for pharma or farm are not a progressive value. Protection from anti-competitive forces is 

Huron John
Tue, 11/20/07
6:06 pm

 No way.

It is this response exactly that will never allow Universal health care to become a reality.  There is a way, and we need to work toward that way instead of saying 'my way or the highway.'  There are mant plans out there that will allow private insurers to make money off of a government organized health car plan...you just need to do a little research before making absolute statements like that.

Especially detrimental are convolutions of the tax system to produce "incentives" (my main beef with Richardson).

it does double damage by undermining public support for necessary shared taxes for the common good while giving scarce resources to people with a tax bill. i.e. already profitable

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
6:00 pm

Phil, I think you miss the point. Corn subsidies are equally available to all because we needed to incent its production.  If it is no longer a good thing, then we should change that policy.

The point is that we can use incentive for the right things.  I agree that it doesn't work 100% of the time, but the reason for that is the corporate influence on the process.  Look at GM and others in the '70's and '80's with incentives to invest in electric vehicle technology: They used the incentives to buy smaller companies, decimate them, and destroy the research---it is because they helped draft the legislation to make loopgholes for them to do this---if the loophole were closed, and it required their purchases to yield results, or no subsidy, the problem would be solved---we could be driving around in electric vehicles right now.

So, Phil, the point is to get Progressives in power to institute Progressive policies to ensure that the American people's interest are first in this respect. 

many plans out there that will allow private insurers to make money off of a government organized health care plan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

none of which are efficient, none of which are "progressive"

a poltical necessity to bribe current players to take two steps forward and then that one back maybe

but don't portray it as noble

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
6:05 pm

I agree that the tax system is convoluted, but it isn't changing any time soon.  If you understand the way teh tax system works, it can be very beneficial...personally, I think they should teach about taxes in public schools so people will know what is happening with their money and why...it will also influence new directions in 'good for the people' businesses

Zogby Poll: NASCAR Fans Favor Ron Paul

JonesReport.com | November 19, 2007

A new Zogby poll finds that more than 32.5% of NASCAR fans nationwide preferred Ron Paul in a "blind-biography" poll where candidates were described but not named.

Paul was their top choice even as NASCAR fans were polled as less likely to vote for a candidate opposed to the Iraq War. (Only 37% of NASCAR fans favor immediate withdraw, as opposed to 52.5% of non-fans in the same poll: See below). Giuliani was the 2nd choice amongst NASCAR fans. Ron Paul's poll numbers doubled those of both Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson-- a correlation which also carried over among 'non-fans of NASCAR.'

Pundits place importance on the NASCAR demographic because its 74 million estimated fans represent some 17% of registered voters. In 2004, 9 of its Top 10 drivers in the NEXTEL Cup endorsed George W. Bush. NASCAR fans made up about 21.7% of the respondents in this poll.

Giuliani has been foremost this election cycle in courting its fans , known in general as mostly conservative and mostly Southern. But this poll indicates that Ron Paul would do well to court the motorsport enthusiasts as well.

While NASCAR fans are divided on the Iraq War issue, the poll clearly shows that many are swayed by other positions in Ron Paul's biography--"smaller government," "individual liberty," "following the Constitution," and "never voting to raise taxes." The true conservative Dr. Paul might be everything they want in a candidate.

Paul also polled very high in the blind-bio question amongst nearly all religious demographics, all races, incomes and genders, and amongst Democrats, Republicans and Independents alike. His closest rival in the latest Zogby poll in almost all demographics was the 'Not Sure' category-- a sure sign that the Republican primary is anything but locked up.

Overall, Ron Paul led the poll with an astounding 32.8%, with Giuliani at a distant 18.6%, and Romney and Thompson tailing at 15.1% and 12.6% respectively. 20.8% responded as "not sure."

tilting the economic table to favor certain political favored interests   is the way we got into this mess

more of them are not a progressive value

A segment on the Fox and Friends morning show yesterday turned into an opportunity for Kilmead to share his dictatorial fetish that dissenters be dealt with in the proper manner, as footage aired of Clinton's heckler being removed from the event by security.

(Article Continues Below)

“They should Tase this guy,” Kilmead says. “At one point with security so high and tensions on edge, don't you think they're going to get at the very least Tased or beaten to a pulp by somebody? These people look threatening.”

Watch the video.

A number of other recent high profile public confrontations were reeled off, some of which involved We Are Change members, to paint a picture of a growing threat that needed to be quashed.

As the screams of tasered University of Florida student Andrew Meyer played in the background, the presenters seemed to react with glee, after which Kilmead concluded, “I would be for Tasing anyone in Code Pink,” adding “I'm pro-Pink Tasing.”

As we have reported in-depth , this is all part of an intimidation campaign to silence dissent as the apparatus of the police state turns against anyone who questions authority.

Since Tasing is all part of "pain compliance," otherwise known as torture,

A n

I want progressives in power to tax people fairly and end a convoluted tax policy that grants the benefits to insiders with the better lobbyists even if on the surface they are from a "progressive" cause.

Tax credits and subsidies are not a progressive value.

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
6:05 pm

 "tilting the economic table to favor certain political favored interests   is the way we got into this mess"

No, Phil, tilting the economic table to favor the people's interest is called Democracy. 

 Corn subsidies are equally available to all because we needed to incent its production.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~Corn subsidies are equally available to all because ADM wanted cheaper feedstock than the market would provide.

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
6:19 pm

Okay, Phil...then how do you suggest we 'force' business to do what is in the people's inetrest.  What way do we have other than civil law, incentive, and tax penalty.  Are you suggesting some sort of dictatorship?

Dictatorship is not a Progressive value 

Ron Paul Philadelphia Veteran's Day Rally

You Tube | November 14, 2007

No, Phil, tilting the economic table to favor the people's interest is called Democracy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

wrong

the people are served by a level table

Okay, Phil...then how do you suggest we 'force' business to do what is in the people's inetrest. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

they are called anti-trust laws and are already on the books

121.

David Reiter
Tue, 11/20/07
5:55 pm

Personally, I think we can have Universal health care, improve care, lower costs, AND still allow businesses to profit. It is all about proper government policy and regulation, which we have none of right now

==================

Good point, but regulation and efficiency are two sides of the same coin.

Regulation and government control of toxins and causes for diseases, particularly chronic degenerative diseases, will lower the rates of incidence of those diseases.

When the government dispenses health care on behalf of the citizenry, it has an interest in weeding out corporate abuse of pharmacueticals and overuse of mediocre treatments.

and an interest in controlling the proliferation and use of toxic substances, for consumers and industry workplace, particularly in the vaporous and gaseseous form, to curtail the
incidence of degenerative conditions.

Government can induce financial incentives for physicians that dispense more preventative care, like they do in UK.

I saw Sicko last night.

Phil, you say there is no way for a company to make a profit and still have Progressive Health Care Reform, yet there are plausible ways out there.  I wrote one off the top of my head just to exemplify the point that a successful plan is just an idea away.  Here is the link, and Susan Rowe provided some excellent links in the comments section, too.

Where is your imagination? 

140.

DANIEL ROONEY
====================

Please give Ron Paul a rest. Nobody here is interested in that asshole, and you are a troll for pushing him so hard.

FRED from OR
Tue, 11/20/07
6:29 pm

Excellent points, Fred!!! 

118.

David Reiter

I was really responding to Becky's opinion, but that's ok.

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
6:22 pm

If people were served by a 'level table' then capitalism would rule unabashedly into fascism.  The whole point of government is to exercise in the people's best interest, not to have no regulation or enforcement of businesses so that all are equally taken advantage of, like you suggest. 

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 11/20/07
6:46 pm

Becky had reposted a segment of my last blog that you commented on as well...which is now on the front page 

140.

David Reiter

============

If I may.

Business can take many forms and is not a special category. There are rules and regulations we all must follow for the common good. Nobody is a dictator just because they put regulations on business, so long as it is for the greater good.

Right now big business has become the robber baron of our society and we are slowly developing into a country of super-rich oligarchy, in which the common people have no voice.

That happened because we made a golden idol of "business" and became afraid to regulate it.

so if we bribe this  special interest to do a certain share of public good while raking in the bucks taken from paychecks and bribe that special interest because we want more of what they do because their lobby firms hire ex-Democratic (progressive) Congressmen to help us  write the law that they benefit from and they chip in to make us the majority so we can repeat the process for more of our causes and friends  and gain even more campaign funds  ...   that is progressive because our causes are righteous?

give me a break (no really I'm a good guy, how about a tax incentive to take the first weekend in December off so I can make the roads safer reducing the deer herd)

it will help regenreate oak forests

carbon sink and all

a thousand dollar credit will get me to take two weekends off and hunt

remember oak forests are a carbon sink and deer overpopulation destroy the seedlings

144.

David Reiter
============
merci

I HAVE TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT to CHRIS DODD.

...I have tried unsubscribing to Obama's so many times, but they keep sending me emails.....correct that, contribution requests. I received another just today noting the good work folks were doing in contributing, avoiding having to "make a fundraiser" LOL....SO, WHAT THE HECK, make another one.

But Chris Dodd, sent a Thanks Giving wish. Class. On a holiday, note your thanks and good wishes.

Not to pimp for yet more money.


Good wishes to you Chris Dodd.

Phil Specht
Tue, 11/20/07
6:36 pm

I love you, man :-)

No, the point is that we elect Representatives that will do what is in our ('the people's') best interest regardles of  what the lobbyists want.  There can be a balance between what is in our best interest and the profit a company can make from benefitting us.  To use your example:

A company has a goal of profit (regardless of sinkholes and all).  Laws are created and intended to provide a level playing field, but also to benefit/safeguard the people.  Use slavery as an example of how government acted in the people's best interest.  Many lobbying interests wanted to keep slavery, but laws were developed to make it profitable for companies AND free the slaves.  This is an example of a Progressive value.  Laws were changed to abolish child labor...same example.  The list goes on and on.

I agree that the system is broken...but the point is to elect those that will fix it...what else are we all doing here? 

FRED from OR
Tue, 11/20/07
6:35 pm

Amen, Fred! 

Keith

Bush/Cheney have been outted completely.

IMPEACH

146.

David Reiter
=============

Praise the Lord - blessed be Darwin

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/23038...