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Markos-Harold Ford Netroots Nation Liveblogging
Linked to groups: Brandeis University, DFA at Netroots Nation (formerly YearlyKos) July 17-20
(Editor's Note: Sahar was one of the Netroots Nation scholarship winners. Meeting him and the other 29 winners this past week in Austin was a true pleasure. I know this post is a couple of days old, but I wanted folks to see it. Thanks. Danny, Communications Director.) (Crossposted at InnermostParts.org) Arshad Hasan of DFA is moderating. Hooray for DFA! For a more amusing take on the whole thing, check out my friend Ned Resnikoff’s liveblog at Veritosity. Much more concise and easy to read. Arshad talks about his status as a non-impartial person. But oh well. Markos gives his standard speech. Talks about standing up / trusting Democratic core values. Talks about netroots, how its good for democrats electorally and morally, etc. Harold Ford talks. This is interesting. He has a very lecturing / speechlike tone. Talks about the history of DLC, how it’s composed of elected leaders, etc. He’s pretty frank, talking about how he represents conservatives and moderates. Talks about how the DLC has people in the Clinton, Obama, Edwards, biden campaigns, etc. I respect his demeanor. He’s not trying to kiss ass. He’s trying to speak his position / his mind. I still think he’s wrong, but at least he’s proud of what he believes in and not trying ot sugarcoat it. And isn’t that what progressives ask Democrats to do? Arshad: Howard Dean talks about “not left vs right, but culture of incumbency vs culture of activism”. Harold, how do you encourage a culture of activism? HF: Not really answering the question. Talks about how Obama, etc needs to attract people who don’t identify as proud Democrats. Kos: Activists / Voters are encouraged to get involved when theres a real race. People have no incentive to vote in gerrymandered districts. We are the mainstream media. Tallk about the “traditional media”. When media asks about “Obama’s move to the center.” Media has a narrative, won’t listen to what I tell them. In one ear out the other. We weren’t upset about anything really except FISA. We pushed him to reject campaign finance. And we were mad because he didn’t move to the center. THere is no mass of people who want to be spied on. We support conservative candidates who represent their district if its conservatie, as long as they’re proud to be Democrats.
Arshad: How do we counteract narrative of Obama flip-flopping / moving to the center? HF: Lots of people you got elected (special elections candidates, red to blue, jim webb, claire mccaskill) voted for FISA. Responds to Markos’ idea about ‘principles nd convictions”. Says that’s important. I think government shold be held accountable for FISA violations, not companies. [ed note -This is, of course, kind of wrong. The only way to hold government accountable is through the telco companies, after all.] Arshad: What’s the balance between supporting Obama and supporting accountability. HF: other countries you can’t even discuss these things so be happy. If you don’t like what’s going on, don’t vote for people. Bah. The whole point of citizenship is “do more than vote”. HF: Straw Man about primary challenges. Make sure that you don’t force people to be too far left for their districts. Technical Difficulties wiped out a lot of stuff. Whoops. Question time - Kos: Well, this is a specific convention on blogging. And blogging is just a small slice of the netroots. Latino’s use text messaging more than anything else. I’m not worried about not enough white people using SMS, and I’m not really worried about latinos using the speciic technology of blogging. Lots of questions to Harold Ford on the lines of: “Why are you a weak-willed conservative?”
Nate Lowenthiel, Executive Director of the Roosevelt Institution (my boss): You guys on stage are diverse and so forth. But the people here at Netroots Nation aren’t. How d we take care of that?
Waste of time.
Thanks Danny, Sahar's reporting has been great and most appreciated.
Nice assessment of HF at the start. I too think he's wrong and am sorry there were technical difficulties midstream. Not to worry, the DLC tunnel-vision perspective came across loud and clear in just the few comments.
One can surmise he avoided the question on how to encourage activism because he isn't interested in doing so.
makes me want to gag. There were a few speakers that ticked me off, as I expected they would, and he was one of them. That patronizing tone combined with this bull about having to be a neocon in his votes because of the district he is in is why we need to get rid of DINOs once and for all. He is a master to the corporations and avoided all the tough questions by giving non-answers.
Markos did a surprisingly well job off staying on message and being blunt. Much better than the MTP appearance with Ford before, in which Markos did not do well at all. Several of his comrades said he has been getting media training and it shows. Side footnote...Markos's wife is gorgeous! Especially her hair, lol.
The real winner of the luncheon "debate" was Arshad. Boy, I think DFA is going to lose him to a new career! He was excellent. Very comfortable in front of the crowd, great about directing the conversation and staying on task, didn't bury his head in notes like too many moderators, etc. He is the best one I have seen at these conventions including professionals and other YearlyKos/NN moderators. They should have him do these every year. Arshad is a natural and it really helped set the rhythm and flow of the conversation. A+++
Plus Arshad is one of the few people who get up there and aren't boring. Sorry to the rest but most who talk about themselves or try to be funny or witty just cannot pull it off. Arshad is a natural...a great story teller not only in front of large audiences but in private chats too. He is quite the entertainer. As much as I like one of the prominent NN organizers, she REALLY needs some media and speech training. Burying your head and talking to your notes is something we learn NOT to do in jr. high speech courses and after taking 50 photos of her and not being able to get one where she was looking up, I just gave up.
The only thing that is of interest right now, at least to me, is Obama's trip to Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan, Iran, and Europe.
This is a very big deal for Barack!
All 300 of those journalists with him are not following him to wish him good luck -- they are there to catch any little word or action they think they could blow up into a negative report.
The good news for Obama on his trip will be scarcely covered by these same journalists.
What's new?
Yes, Barack's trip to Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan, Iran, and Europe is a very big deal, he's making history, but the Gestapo dictates what is to be discussed here.
So, therefore, Barack's trip is to be flicked off in the cooler filed under *waterboarding*. See, even Barack isn't immune to that at BFA.
- I agree Joan and Karen - BFA HQ is determing what gets promoted. Too hell with recommendations
By Denise in San Mateo County on Jul 21, 2008 4:34 PM EDTI doubt anyone here wanted this promoted to the front page. Harold Ford is DLC and not progressive. I feel like they are going the Tara "my way or the highway" route at HQ. How unprogressive and undemocratic.
...On October 10, 2002, Harold Ford, Jr. was among the 81 House Democrats who voted in favor of authorizing the invasion of Iraq.
After the 2002 elections resulted in Democrats losing Congressional seats, Ford announced his candidacy for House Democratic Leader, challenging then-House Minority Whip Nancy Pelosi, arguing that current leadership was ineffective.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-8">[9]</sup> Ford was defeated but exceeded initial expectations in the amount of support he received.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-9">[10]</sup> ...
...In Congress, Ford had an ideologically varied voting record. He supported a ban on benefits for same-sex couples, as well as the Federal Marriage Amendment (which would ban same-sex marriage). He told Democrats they should be more supportive of the Iraq War and criticized Senate Democrats who attempted to filibuster the nomination of Samuel Alito. He was one of the few Democrats who voted for the Bankruptcy Bill, and he supported some restrictions on abortion, defining himself as a pro-life candidate, including supporting a ban on intact dilation and extraction (called by its opponents, partial-birth abortion). He supported the Republican effort to intercede in the Terri Schiavo case.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-13">[14]</sup> ...
- Harold Ford, Jr. would not even pass for a Democrat in my area [very red] of California.
By Susan Rowe on Jul 21, 2008 5:17 PM EDTHarold Ford at Netroots Nation on FISA
by Dave Johnson
Harold Ford and Markos held a discussion on stage at lunch here at Netroots Nation. I didn't catch all of it, but at one point Ford was talking about FISA and telecom immunity, along the lines of "If you have a company, and the government comes to you and says 'If you do this for us it will help national security' then what can you say?" ... click through for Dave's answer
- The last thing I want to see on our progressive blog is something about Harold Ford
By Denise in San Mateo County on Jul 21, 2008 4:32 PM EDTCheryl did a great job blogging about it already. All anyone had to do was go to HEP and read it as she was blogging live.
Nice job Cheryl!
Every single one of us is unique, so any group of people is ipso facto diverse. I think that the focus on superficial characteristics of people is really counter-productive. It allows people like Harold Ford to be socially promoted because of his looks.
The Democratic Leadership Council is designed for people who like to be followers by people who prefer that leaders be chosen on some basis other than competence--specifically because they have accumulated enough money to buy a propaganda machine.
I've long been of the opinion that if we have to have leaders, I'd prefer for them to be stupid because smart ones are eminently more dangerous. But now I've decided that a free people can't rely on leaders. Besides, when we're talking about a nation of three hundred million, it's not possible for one person to lead.
To a certain extent our democracy has been hijacked by a moneyed elite. And while the accumulation of money might be a sign of competence and more democratic in that every person of competence theoretically has a chance to get rich, the reality is that the accumulation of money is easily accomplished by crooks and when crooks run the country we're in deep doodoo.
The proof is in the pudding. Whatever wealth Bush, Cheney, Clinton and McCain have accumulated is not evidence of wisdom or competence.
- I think what we have here is a failure of organization
By Monica Smith on Jul 21, 2008 4:58 PM EDTWhat is being touted as a live blog is actually three days late. Part of that is the fault of having to construct a separate post to which readers cannot immediately respond. We've had all kinds of live blogging here, including coverage of news conferences, Senate hearings, marches and Deanfest events.
It doesn't work, if there's a separation between reporting and commentary. And it certainly doesn't work if the diary is put up three days late.
It might work if the event were scheduled ahead of time, properly announced, invitations to participants sent out, etc. But that takes a lot of organization by a group that still hasn't learned how to effectively communicate. (you might want to look that word up to get it's meaning--hint, it's not similar to dictation).
I did, I think you'll find, post this as a liveblog in real time. You may have missed it (as it wasn't Front-Paged) but the DFA staff at Netroots Nation had their own projects to do and obviously couldn't promote it to the front page right after I put up the first iteration of the post.
As for the three day thing ... I think they're making a conscious choice to space it out.
- There were 30 scholarship winners and we've heard from
By Monica Smith on Jul 21, 2008 5:02 PM EDTThree? Is that right? Thirty internet savy individuals and we get reports from three?
What does that tell us?
Tells us a lot.
I would like to hear back from all the scholarship winners - what they learned, what they're doing with it. But not in 30 separate report posts because it's difficult enough to stay on topic for a post about something we've already covered.
Trees have branches, branches alone do not make trees.
This is a very good write-up, I really appreciate that Sahar posted it, it would have been great to have it be live and it could have been were the construct of a live blog reinstituted. Not to mention it may have brought him and others into the community. I really hope he returns.
I met most of them and they are active bloggers or activists or both in their communities, minus a couple. Not everyone chosen is a blogger but they had us do other things there to help support DFA like some people worked the exhibit booth and others helped promote DFA on their blogs or in other ways.
Did one or two use DFA to get there but with no real interest in investing in DFA or the activist community at large? That is bound to happen, but overall I enjoyed the time with my peers there and everyone could tell who was contributing and really wanted to be there for the right reasons.
It is a learning experience for DFA. Next year I would love to be on the committee to help and will offer up my services to help coordinate food since this foodie was starving for lack of good grub, lol. NO MORE CHIPS! I also pledged to donate $200 to other winners next year so hopefully my financial and health situations will have improved enough to do so. I found out too late that there was a food co-op only two blocks from our hotel. I could have created an awesome spread! So, Arshad, save yourself some time and hassle and use me as your food gopher next year. :)
Other winners were completely delightful and many very active. Xavier, Jamiah, Ryan, Ned, Kenneth, Diana, Betsy and Leona I got got spend more time talking to than some of the others I would have liked to get to know more. I have a good photo of Leona and me which I will try to post. She was delightful beyond delightful. She has the same spirit as another good friend of mine so it was really a pleasure spending time with her.
Robert I met then forget and reintroduced myself, lol. It was getting confusing for me after meeting so many people unless I had some private time talking with them. Sahar, Exme and Tammy I got to talk to during the dinner and in the hallways here and there. Turns out I actually met Ryan before and donated to Betsy's domestic shelter fundraiser so she and Andy T were a delight to meet in person too. Land of enchantment is a kos blogger who helped organize this whole thing for us after being a scholarship winner herself last year. Carnacki was someone whose writing I had been reading, including a fiction story he is working on totally unrelated to politics. John and Matt I really didn't get to talk to until the last night. John owes me a pin by the way, lol. He got Darcy Burner's last one. Edwin was busy filming people so my chat with him was pretty brief though I did get to talk to Bruce more late one night when we were listening to Liane's adventures in green living.
Elliot ended up getting sick, which was very unfortunate, but I at least got to meet him and chat early on before the illness. I also got to chat with his roommate before my plane left. Suga and Kevin didn't end up making it to the best of my knowledge. And of course I spent time with Liane and Terri since we already have known each other through the years. Jessica, Charlie and Cos were there too so we all got to spend some time chatting.
Most of the rest it was just an introduction but no real time to talk or in some cases I didn't meet them at all. I went up an introduced myself to Linnie because I had voted for her. I voted for Dorothy too but didn't see her much or get a chance to chat.
Next year instead of the take-in dinner I recommend a breakfast on the Friday morning and make it mandatory for winners to at least show up and meet the rest of the scholarship winners. That would not interfere with other events and it would be a good way to start the day, plus early enough in the conference to connect but late enough for those arriving later. The Saturday evening thing just didn't work and messed up my other plans. I missed two good events including an organic dinner that Orange Clouds was having which would have given me real sustenance and the Jim Hightower event. I don't think I ate so much junk food and things I can't have (like gluten) in years. I ended up having to go out and eat after the DFA dinner because there was not enough food either for the number of people there, and I needed real nutrition.
Sorry, Arshad. Love ya, but the Stubbs thing didn't cut it and I only had one good meal the entire time I was there which was at Moonshine with Lois and Marcia. I didn't even like Stubbs when we used them for DemocracyFest in 2005. Ha!
Every time I try to post it refreshes and gives the last post again or posts a blank. Definitely bloggie tech issues.
Anyway, I am trying to say that other scholarship winners are blogging on their own state blogs and haven't had time to cross post yet.
Ned is posting here:
http://veritosity.com/2008/07/18/a-very-special-blog-post-liveblogging-the-fordkos-debate/
- It tells us they posted at KOS and BFA is insignificant to them
By Denise in San Mateo County on Jul 21, 2008 5:40 PM EDTNetroots Nation '09Thursday, August 13, 2009 - Sunday, August 16, 2009David L. Lawrence Convention Center1000 Ft. Duquesne BoulevardPittsburgh, PA 15222United States<label for="RegTypeId161603">Tier 1 Registration ($175.00)</label><label for="RegTypeId161606">Tier 2 Registration ($225.00)</label>Register NOW! http://www.regonline.com/Checkin.asp?EventId=639966
Are we really supposed to stay off the blog now that a post regarding the ideas of Kos and Hal Ford at a bloggers convention has reached the front page, since the relevant responses are restricted to what those people discussed? The author himself called Ford's contribution a "waste of time" and the DLC head a "weak-willed conservative." Other than chiming our agreement like parrots, I guess that exhausts the subject for discussion.
How can this be any sensate person's idea of an improvement for blog discussion, as opposed to the lively, sometimes incendiary conversation that took place here before? I mean, the changes here have been ruinous. Disposable watercooler blogs, open threads floating around, and strictly unsanctioned off topic comments are now dispersed all over the blog site. You used to simply come here and type your thoughts. Now you're challenged to decide what topics are appropriate to discuss and where it is appropriate to put them.
Tom you are so right!
Literally dozens of people who used to contribute timely, entertaining and provocative comments have given up on this travesty of a blog.
I miss them, even if I oft times disagreed with them.
But that should be what blogging's about , shouldn't it?
I mostly agreed with Michael Ellis
said why they made the dchanges? Just curious. I also find the new format challenging though I do like open threads, recommended diaries, etc.
The watercooler always seems to be expired or down when I try and go there.
Perhaps I should be more clear.
There indeed were many questions to Harold Ford. Many of these questions were variations on this theme: "I, the person being quoted, [not, as it were, the person transcribing this quote] believe that you, Harold Ford, are a weak willed conservative".
I, Sahar Massachi, believe those questions to be a waste of time.
Does that make more sense?
- Netroots All-Stars Need YOU: 4 Steps to a Progressive Majority
By Susan Rowe on Jul 21, 2008 5:40 PM EDTwritten in a message from Christine Pelosi on Monday, July 21, 2008 2:24 PMHello Friends,
I'm back from an invigorating trip with Campaign Boot Camp events in Washington, DC at Busboys & Poets and Austin, TX at the Strama Campaign Academy before the historic Netroots Nation conference that included a candidates celebration with over 30 Netroots All-Stars running for office and an Ask the Speaker session with Nancy Pelosi and surprise guest Al Gore.
Our Netroots All-Stars have important work in the countdown to Election Day. As I write in Campaign Boot Camp, www.PelosiBootCamp.com every campaign is a fusion of a large social movement and a small business startup focused on management, message, money and mobilization in order to win. We have the large social movement - Americans are hungry for change and eager to be part of something larger than themselves. We need to catalyze the small business startups - each campaign needs management, message, money and mobilization to win. I've put up a HuffPo piece on the Netroots All-Stars and the 4 steps in management, message, money and mobilization you can take to join the team and help them win.
To view it and leave a comment please visit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christine-pelosi/netroots-all-stars-need-y_b_114130.html
As always, thanks for your support and for all you do!
Best, Christine
Christine Pelosi
Author, Campaign Boot Camp:
Basic Training for Future Leaders
Visit me online via Facebook
or at www.PelosiBootCamp.com
She introduced the candidates at the candidate forum. I have to say I like her much better than her mum.
Mitchell sure has her nose out of joint because the military got to present their pictures of Obama's visit with the soldiers. Andrea said the military were not journalists, well, neither is she. Her hubby the Greenspan would be quick to tell her that competition is good.
Now, the UK PM has joined Maliki in support of Obama's time table for withdrawal. will there be a stampede to join them? We can't get a 60 vote majority in Congress, maybe we should take a world vote, and dump Congress.
Unfortunately Audrey, the pernicious notion of American exceptionalism will prevail, and what the world thinks won't deter the nut jobs who currently are in charge of the asylum
there is a new thread...
http://democracyforamerica.com/blog_posts/26005-e-pluribus-unum-out-of-many-one#1214248
I know a lot of you, my DFA friends, are upset with decisions DFA staff has made regarding this blog and where posts end up, but is it possible to limit that criticism to those you are upset with and not take it out on the authors? Sahar is a very nice guy, a scholarship winner, and it takes time to write up and post these diaries. I would be very hurt to come here, excited that my diary was front paged, and read some of the comments. I know many of you as such great people and I am sure that was not your intention at all...it is just frustration leading it.
I am not a prolific writer like Monica and the technical problems I experience here make it difficult for me to blog like I would like to. Today I have to use someone else's system just to blog.
Sahar did it live but it didn't get promoted right away, which he had no control over just like my more silly one took two days too.
I enjoyed this diary and think relevant discussion can come from it. I know people are upset about comments being filtered and maybe more communication does need to come from HQ on the reasons why and process to decide that, but too often it is coming across as an attack on the diarist and no diary writer among us is getting paid. If we keep projecting frustration on the authors, we will just drive more people away. I would like to see more diaries about people's perspectives, not less. :)
I blog on HEP because of the longtime DFA family there, but it also is because when I try to blog here I run into too many technical issues. HEP is pretty easy to get on and off and do live blogging because of the simple technology which is why I could get out so many posts there and not much here during NN. I had to do a work-around to get the photos up on my NN diary. So for me the first issue is a technical one...I haven't really even explored the flow issue though I do see it has been stilted more. I am not sure of the decision making process or intention behind that and maybe that is what everyone needs. I met Danny and all the staffers who were at NN and all seemed nice people who aren't purposely trying to subvert anyone. Which isn't to say I fully agree with the changes that have been made here. Many I find frustrating also.
There seems to me that there needs to be a process in place to open up communication and decision making lines and understand better 1) what their intent is with the changes and 2) how that may or may not impact the community. I was so busy with so much I didn't even think to ask about the blog issues while I was talking to Danny, Charles, Arshad, etc.
This ongoing fight is getting depressing though, so I would like us to focus on getting some solutions. I have no answers myself. I can say that this blog doesn't seem very welcoming and maybe we all have a role in that. To the DFA staff I would say only this...if you ignore this problem (even if you don't perceive it as a problem), you aren't going to get more people here blogging...just the opposite. What should be hospitable comes across as hostile. I've been down that road too many times before in the past 4 years with DFA and realized my energy needs to go into things I can have a say in. To my DFA blogger friends, try to focus whatever frustrations on the people who can solve the problems. Sahar has nothing to do with the blog changes and seems like an innocent bystander getting caught up in a drive by shooting (okay, bad analogy but we just had 3 murders here again yesterday so it is what is on my mind, unfortunately).
What I really would like is for whatever frustrations not to end up being an attack at an innocent diarist. We can disagree with content (though I think most of us agree Ford is an @ss) but please, don't take it out on the diarist. I am sure if you all met Sahar in person you would very much like him and appreciate that he was trying to blog his experience at the NN event as DFA would like all of who went there to.
I do think this was a worthy post of being promoted and enjoyed reading it. Maybe others didn't feel the same (just like there are some front-paged posts I am not that interested in) but I think that is the nature of any blog. I read DailyKos too and frankly skip the front-paged posts quite often in favor of the recommended ones where my favorite writers tend to be. There is a regular front-paged author here whose work I have never read after the first time, yet others seem to enjoy that person's posts. I haven't made any criticisms of those posts though, even though I don't personally read or enjoy them.
We all have our preferences but I don't agree with letting frustration get in the way of expanding our DFA members. Some authors have been with DFA as long as I have, and either just never blogged or did so under another name so I would like us all to be more welcoming even if we do not know the person. Attacking their position is fine as always...that disagreement is healthy. Venting is necessary sometimes too and I have certainly done my share. Solutions though is what we need to focus on.
Anyway, I hope I didn't offend anyone with this and you know I love you all very much. (If I knew how to make hearts here it would be inserted thusly ;)
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