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On Imperfect Choices, Or, Jesus Ain't Running

Written by: fake consultant on Jul 19, 2008 5:30 PM EDT

Linked to groups: DFA Night School, Democracy for Illinois, Quad Cities Trained Activists, Young Democrats of IL, Blog For America

Linked to campaigns: Obama for America

A question has come across my inbox today, and as I am wont to do I began to answer my email friend (who I’ve known, by the way, since we both posted on the John Edwards blog). More or less 100 words into the reply it occurred to me that this was a question best answered in front of a larger audience.

The question? My friend is having trouble committing to Obama.

Why? I’m paraphrasing, but it would be fair to say that the sudden emergence of Obama’s “handlers” was a factor...and although it’s not in the note, I suspect the fact that Obama has “tacked to the center” recently on various issues is part of the problem as well.

It’s a great question...and in an effort to provide a great answer I’m going to offer a few words of my own—and then I thought we might reach back a bit into history and see if there might be something we can learn.

Having come to the metaphorical tee and taken the first shot, let’s head down the fairway and see where that ball might be...and where we can get it to go.

It’s a great question...and in an effort to provide a great answer I’m going to offer a few words of my own—and then I thought we might reach back a bit into history and see if there might be something we can learn.

Having come to the metaphorical tee and taken the first shot, let’s head down the fairway and see where that ball might be...and where we can get it to go.

Our good friends at Democracy for America have been running “Night School” for those seeking to learn about the campaign process from the inside, and just a couple nights ago we held a training on “The Political Mind”, with George Lakoff leading the discussion.

Professor Lakoff talked about how to frame a discussion; and I’m going to see if I can apply some of what I learned in the response I offer here.

The question “should I vote for Obama, despite his imperfections?” which is the question I was asked, does not correctly frame the discussion...so allow me to offer a question from an alternative “framing”:

The real question you have to ask is which of the two candidates that might actually win—McCain or Obama—is less flawed than the other?

There will be no perfect candidates—now or ever...and waiting for the perfect candidate to support is guaranteed to lead to disillusionment every time.

To put it bluntly: Jesus ain’t running...and absent any other Deities appearing on the electoral horizon, perfection seems unattainable.

Between McCain and Obama, the choice gets quite simple.

McCain talks about military tactics, Obama talks about military strategy.

Obama talks about the ecomony, McCain talks about how his economic spokesman, Phil Gramm, the guy who wrote McCain’s economic policy, doesn’t speak for him on the economy.

For more McCain...issues...or, issues...or, ummm, issues, or just the fact that he, for some reason, hates Martin Luther King Day, check the Web.

Now for a bit of encouraging history.

We elected a President once before who was far from the President he became—a pro-business candidate who did not support the abolition of slavery, but instead a compromise leading to the gradual phase-out of the practice...something that was already occurring in the North.

“...You suggest that in political action now, you and I would differ. I suppose we would; not quite as much, however, as you may think. You know I dislike slavery; and you fully admit the abstract wrong of it. So far there is no cause of difference. But you say that sooner than yield your legal right to the slave -- especially at the bidding of those who are not themselves interested, you would see the Union dissolved. I am not aware that any one is bidding you to yield that right; very certainly I am not. I leave that matter entirely to yourself.

I also acknowledge your rights and my obligations, under the constitution, in regard to your slaves. I confess I hate to see the poor creatures hunted down, and caught, and carried back to their stripes, and unrewarded toils; but I bite my lip and keep quiet. In 1841 you and I had together a tedious low-water trip, on a Steam Boat from Louisville to St. Louis. You may remember, as I well do, that from Louisville to the mouth of the Ohio, there were, on board, ten or a dozen slaves, shackled together with irons. That sight was a continued torment to me; and I see something like it every time I touch the Ohio, or any other slave-border. It is hardly fair for you to assume, that I have no interest in a thing which has, and continually exercises, the power of making me miserable. You ought rather to appreciate how much the great body of the Northern people do crucify their feelings, in order to maintain their loyalty to the Constitution and the Union...”

--From a letter to Joshua Speed, August 24, 1855


And there was division from those in his own Party who were not inclined to make deals on the moral issues he was willing to make compromises upon:

“In the interior of the country, the cities as well as the rural districts, I found the people much more unanimous. The panic has not been felt so severely there, and the political feelings of the people are less controlled by mercenary motives. While some politicians in the large cities were somewhat inclined to smooth the difficulty over by a compromise, the Republican masses in the country are just as strongly and uncompromisingly opposed to anything that would look in the least like a lowering of the Republican standard.

I was in western New York when Thurlow Weeds compromise articles came out and when it was rumored that Seward was preparing to make a compromise speech. The feeling was very intense every where, Thurlow Weed's propositions were generally condemned, and I have heard the most conservative and moderate Republicans say, that Seward could not yield a single inch of ground without destroying himself and forfeiting forever the confidence of his friends.

What I have seen and heard, not only in New York, but in Pennsylvania and New England also, forces the conviction upon my mind, that every serious attempt on the part of the Republicans in Congress, to patch up a compromise by yielding a single one of the principles of the Chicago platform, will inevitably result in the immediate disruption of the Republican party. It turns out again what I have observed quite frequently, that as far as courage and consistency are concerned, the rank and file are far ahead of their leaders.”

--From a letter written by Carl Schurz, December 18, 1860

This candidate wanted a bi-partisan Administration...and that wasn’t making the Party faithful happy, either:

“...We have now a still higher issue -- a higher duty -- the preservation of the Republic itself! We must not "back down" -- we can make no compromise with traitors, but we can, and I think we must now, as we did in 1854-5, ignore all other issues for the time being, and invite the co-operation of men of all parties in putting down treason. The enemies of the Republic appear to be fearfully numerous, and to prevent accessions to their ranks, the friends of the Union must evrywhere become united.

To accomplish this, I beg respectfully to suggest, whether it may not be necessary to organize the administration different from what your friends, under other circumstances would have expected -- to exclude men, however worthy or prominent, who would be objectionable to the friends of the Union in other parties?

In Ohio, I am quite sure that no man would be more [accessable?] in this view, than Thomas Ewing. All parties regard him as by far most able man in the State. For the firmness and courage exhibited by him in cabinet of President Taylor, he is admired, and would be trusted by all reasonable anti slavery men. I have been intimately accquainted with him for many years, and am satisfied that upon all important public questions, his opinions do not differ from yours. While it is true that he has not professed to be a Republican, I know that he has...acted with no other party -- has voted for Republicans or not voted at all...”

--From a letter written by Thomas C. Jones, December 24, 1860


And from that highly controversial candidacy, we got Abraham Lincoln.

So what am I trying to say?

Politics is a process made up of humans.
All humans are flawed.
Therefore, we will never have a perfect candidate.
We will have to settle.

In choosing between McCain and Obama, ask yourself: who is going to be your best candidate...who is more likely to get you to the place you want to be on the issues that matter to you—and just like the SATs, there may not be a perfectly correct answer...instead, you may have to choose the “most correct answer”


AUTHOR'S NOTE: As always, you are invited to visit the "fully linked" vesion of this story at my personal blog, located here:


http://fakeconsultant.blogspot.com/2008/07/on-imperfect-choices-or-jesus-aint.html

 

 

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+0 Rating
334t262753

- i suspect dean can also...

By fake consultant on Jul 19, 2008 5:52 PM EDT

...relate to this conversation.

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Thank_you_tinythumb

- well done, fc

By Jo*in*Vermont on Jul 20, 2008 3:19 PM EDT

thank you for the lesson from history. I believe Barack can become a great President, but he will need US to do so.

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Thank_you_tinythumb

- go Greg! and Robert!

By Jo*in*Vermont on Jul 20, 2008 3:26 PM EDT
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Thank_you_tinythumb

- try again............

By Jo*in*Vermont on Jul 20, 2008 3:28 PM EDT
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T2t4d_tinythumb

- thanks Jo

By Thankful2Thankful4Dean on Jul 20, 2008 4:37 PM EDT

for the excellent links and comments today.

~ ~ ~

If anyone missed Jo and Phil's comments and the Dean vids on Stephen's News thread, go see 'em... starts just a few comments down.

Rainy here but I've gotta run a quick errand, bbs

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Photo_124_tinythumb

- Oh, great--

By Monica Smith on Jul 20, 2008 4:20 PM EDT


U.S. troops kill son of Iraqi governor
Reuters

Sun Jul 20, 9:25 AM ET

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. forces shot dead the 17-year-old son and another relative of the governor of northern Iraq's Salahuddin province in a raid on Sunday, local officials said.

The U.S. military said it shot two armed, adding it was later found they were both related to the governor.

Governor Hamad al-Qaisi's brother, Lieutenant-Colonel Saad al-Qaisi, said American troops stormed a family house in the town of Beiji, where the governor's son Hussam and his cousin were staying.

"They shot dead Hussam and wounded three others. This is barbaric and inhuman," he said.

A statement from the U.S. military said its forces had wounded and captured an al Qaeda financer in the house.

"As they entered the target building, coalition forces encountered two armed men. Perceiving hostile intent ... they shot and killed the men. It was subsequently determined that the two ... were related to the governor," the statement said.

Local officials said Governor al-Qaisi had cut short a visit to Turkey because of the shooting.

"We demand an investigation into this incident," Deputy Governor Abdullah Jabara said.

(Reporting by Sabah al-Bazee in Tikrit and Tim Cocks in Baghdad; Writing by Tim Cocks)

It seems that uruknet has a complaint about Google not indexing its articles. Google does seem to favor commercial content and when one looks for a topic like al Udeid Air Base, most of the top references relate to vacations and travel arrangements.

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T2t4d_tinythumb

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By Thankful2Thankful4Dean on Jul 20, 2008 4:44 PM EDT

fc. good framing.

sad story from Iraq.

google ain't what it used to be, been a couple years since finding stuff got lots harder

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Photo_124_tinythumb

- For the record, the original report

By Monica Smith on Jul 20, 2008 5:00 PM EDT

http://consortiumnews.com/2008/071808e.html

 

'Justifying' Torture: Two Big Lies

By <!-- TemplateBeginEditable name="Author Name" -->Coleen Rowley and Ray McGovern <!-- TemplateEndEditable -->
<!-- One can assume that former Attorney General John Ashcroft didn’t mean it to be funny, but his testimony on Thursday before the House Judiciary Committee might strike one as hilarious, were it not for the issue at hand — torture.</p--> Ashcroft is the Attorney General who approved torture before he disapproved it, but committee members spared him accusations of flip-flopping.

He explained that he initially blessed the infamous torture memoranda drafted by Justice Department lawyer John Yoo and others in mid-2002 because he (Ashcroft) believed it imperative to afford the President “the benefit of genuine doubt” regarding how to protect American lives in the “war on terror.”

But Ashcroft added that, despite this, when concerns about that earlier guidance for interrogations were brought to his attention, changing his mind “was not a hard decision for me.” A very flexible Attorney General.

<!-- TemplateEndEditable -->
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Photo_124_tinythumb

- It's my sense that McCain hates most

By Monica Smith on Jul 20, 2008 5:02 PM EDT

everything and everybody.

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Sharon_christmas_angel_119_tinythumb

- different take than fc

By Phil Specht on Jul 20, 2008 5:05 PM EDT

my reading of those references was the advice of "stick to your principles"; which I agree is good advice and I hope Barack Obama does just that. He will have a lot of good company if he refuses to compromise.

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Sharon_christmas_angel_119_tinythumb

- I'm still waiting for the professor of Constitutional Law to repudiate totally the notion of a Unitary Executive.

By Phil Specht on Jul 20, 2008 5:15 PM EDT

John Yoo is a blight on our democratic principles. Even Ashcroft came to his senses and realized that was a stretch too far.

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Img19-1_tinythumb

- No need

By Joan In Florida on Jul 20, 2008 5:20 PM EDT

 

The notion that Obama would support a Unitary Executive is totally not Obama.

Besides, he's a bit busy right now doing other things:)

 

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Sharon_christmas_angel_119_tinythumb

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By Phil Specht on Jul 20, 2008 5:29 PM EDT

He just did with his FISA vote Joan. The secret warrantless spy program was the action of a Unitary Executive.

all of Bush's illegal actions like torture, extraordinary renditions, habeous, and the spying were under the cover of Yoo memos

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Sharon_christmas_angel_119_tinythumb

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By Phil Specht on Jul 20, 2008 5:31 PM EDT

Feingold and Dodd have it right and other takes are political maneuvering

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Img19-1_tinythumb

- Activity on the notorious Watercooler

By Joan In Florida on Jul 20, 2008 5:23 PM EDT

seems to have died a quiet death.

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Democracy_tinythumb

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By Karen on Jul 20, 2008 5:52 PM EDT

RIP watercooler. :o)

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Pdxteach_tinythumb

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By seashell on Jul 20, 2008 5:27 PM EDT

Thank you, fc. Now I'll opine as to why your friend and many others are having a hard time committing. I think many understand that BO is the better choice of the two...that's elementary. What's disheartening is his run to the center, his war talk (his whole foreign policy, so like the one we have now and even escalating it) and his vote on FISA.

Of course, there's no perfect candidate. That too is elementary. But...must we choose between two who are so imperfect to so many in their respective parties? The country is fairly liberal yet our critters are falling off the right side of the cliff.

Another very discouraging thing. Why hasn't BO changed the frame from *war on terror* to something that is more truthful? Does he want the powers of a war prez? If so, why? If not, why not change the frame? This would be the perfect time to do that, yet he doesn't. It's another warning signal IMO. Look at the havoc putz has wrought being allowed to call himself a war prez.

What was that poll? Only 59% of us want the troops out in 16 months? This is appalling. Why do so many Americans seemingly embrace war and death? Is is smug superiority? Would it be OK if the war were going on in North Dakota?

I loved seeing the Argentine farmers actually demonstrating that "we have the power." Stopped the gov't here in its tracks.

The news is getting out here that BO is advocating "winning the war in Afghan" and the reaction is dismay. Like so many other countries, Argentina's economy is linked to the states and as we fall, so do they. However, Argentina has it's own oil and water and wonderful natural resources,...which makes it a prime target for oil and water wars and it knows that.

That said, Argentina has had some of the most corrupt gov'ts in the world..,Menen being a prime example. Many people here perceive Cristina as being a dictator.

My neighbors a few doors down in the same building, run a *little business" which has the men coming and going at all hours. I had to have a ringer installed in the apt. becuz my apt number is so like theirs and the guys were buzzing my place a LOT. I wondered if maybe I'm too old to turn a few tricks myself. LOL You know, plane fare money!!!! (At my age, I'd have to work 5 years to make enuf to cover the fare.) Just jesting. I think I could do it in 4!!! :-)

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Pdxteach_tinythumb

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By seashell on Jul 20, 2008 5:29 PM EDT

FOCUS | Obama Campaigns on the Battlefield
http://www.truthout.org/article/obama-campaigns-battlefield
Jason Burke, of The Observer: "Barack Obama, the US Democratic presidential candidate, arrived in Afghanistan yesterday, amid tight security on the first leg of his high-profile tour of war zones and foreign capitals. The tour, aimed at boosting his foreign affairs credentials with voters at home and introducing himself to world leaders for the first time, started with visits to American troops on the front line."

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Pdxteach_tinythumb

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By seashell on Jul 20, 2008 5:50 PM EDT

WHAT WILL AN OBAMA VICTORY ACHIEVE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. WHAT ARE THE RESULTS OF OUR DREAM LIKE STATE IN DESIRING CHANGE

. ".....These are just a very few of the many essential and highly urgent issues that a new president committed to genuine change in the corrupted currents of our moribund Republic would have to take on. It goes without saying that John McCain will do none of the things outlined above. He is a dedicated, unashamed errand boy of empire, and would never upset the apple cart -- and long-term agenda -- of the war-profiteering class and its many courtiers and dependents.

And by every indication we have seen so far, it is increasingly obvious that Barack Obama won't do these things either. How can we know this? Because, as a member of the United States Senate, he could have already been actively addressing these burning issues --  had he wanted to. He could have introduced bills of impeachment against Bush and Cheney for their high crimes. He could have already introduced bills calling for the repeal of the Military Commissions Act and the Bankruptcy Bill. He could have introduced bills outlawing rendition, closing the concentration camp on Guantanamo Bay, shutting down the worldwide gulag of "secret prisons." He could have introduced a bill calling for the full and completely withdrawal of American forces from Iraq, and reparations for the Iraqis. He could have introduced bills rolling back the empire of bases, cutting off funds for missile defense, condemning the U.S. government's pivotal role in suffering and brutality in Somalia. He could not have stopped the war, closed Gitmo, restored the Constitution, prosecuted the Administration criminals for war crimes, torture, treason, corruption and malfeasance all by himself. But he could have at least tried to set the ball rolling, using all the institutional instruments -- and popular acclaim -- at his command to try to force action on these and other issues. But he did not do so; he is not doing so now; and there is no reason to believe that he will do so in the future, despite the eloquent lip service he occasionally pays to one or two of these points.

 

And these are some other reasons a lot of us are having a hard time committing...

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Democracy_tinythumb

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By Karen on Jul 20, 2008 5:49 PM EDT

If Barack did everything to appease his base, McInSane would be the next preznut.

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Thank_you_tinythumb

- re: Another very discouraging thing...

By Jo*in*Vermont on Jul 20, 2008 6:04 PM EDT

Why hasn't BO changed the frame from *war on terror* to something that is more truthful?

he did today - why don't you listen to him once in a while? you might be surprised at what you're missing.

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Democracy_tinythumb

- he did today - why don't you listen to him once in a while? you might be surprised at what you're missing.

By Karen on Jul 20, 2008 6:21 PM EDT

Some people have their minds made up and won't be convinced otherwise. Look at the people who still think Barack is a Muslim, even after the Rev. Wright brouhaha.

With some, the grass is blue and sky is green no matter what they see!

 

+1 Rating
676t107993

- Is this a joke?

By Tom Bearse on Jul 20, 2008 5:50 PM EDT

I'm sure. Both of you supported Edwards and now your friend needs to ponder whether to "vote for Obama, despite his imperfections?”

Edwards was the former consultant for hedge fund manager Fortress Investment Group who co-sponsored the authorization bill for the invasion of Iraq with Joe Lieberman, and urged running mate John Kerry not to recant his own authorization vote so as not to show any weakness of will, then conveniently decided to disavow his own vote upon the launch of his second presidential campaign. If you could support that type of candidate, what possible flaws in Obama would you be unable to overlook?

Edwards was able to issue edicts with alacrity regarding what legislation his former colleagues should and should not vote for on moral and ethical grounds, once he himself had left the body and had nothing at stake in becoming a freelance legislative director. I should think that after supporting a transparent phony like him, your friend will find his support for Obama to be nearly effortless.

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Pdxteach_tinythumb

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By seashell on Jul 20, 2008 5:55 PM EDT

There's a huge difference among committing to, voting for and holding his feet to the fire.

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Pdxteach_tinythumb

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By seashell on Jul 20, 2008 6:04 PM EDT
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Pdxteach_tinythumb

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By seashell on Jul 20, 2008 6:05 PM EDT
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Thank_you_tinythumb

- sea, I'm curious

By Jo*in*Vermont on Jul 20, 2008 6:39 PM EDT

do you agree with his conclusion?  did you share the link because you agree with him or because you think this point of view was important?  or just because it's negative about Obama?  does it really matter what one ex-pat thinks about where Obama speaks in Germany?

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Democracy_tinythumb

- It amazes me that you can post this...

By Karen on Jul 20, 2008 6:47 PM EDT

...Tony Forest: Obama in Berlin : walking straight into the knife (3 comments)

but on the other hand, say this: "Jo, I'm not even in the States. What did he change it to?" This begs the conclusion that you surf the net and pick out anything negative you can find while ignoring the rest.

 

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59t13927

- BINGO - been doing it for a year now

By Denise in San Mateo County on Jul 20, 2008 7:37 PM EDT

But I do get a few chuckles a day out of it.  My statement from last week stands stronger today due to posts like this.  So many excuses for not being informed with the Internet at ones fingers.  Like Roger Waters once wrote "ha ha, charade you are."

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Democracy_tinythumb

- Tony Forest: Obama in Berlin : walking straight into the knife (3 comments)

By Karen on Jul 20, 2008 7:12 PM EDT

furthermore, this is from a right-wing German bush suck up.

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Thank_you_tinythumb

- and there is a HUGE difference in when you choose to do so

By Jo*in*Vermont on Jul 20, 2008 6:09 PM EDT

it's wasted breath to 'hold his feet to the fire' when the flame hasn't even been set.  naysayers are just fueling the flame for the rightwingers at this stage of the game.

jmo.

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Pdxteach_tinythumb

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By seashell on Jul 20, 2008 6:07 PM EDT

Jo, I'm not even in the States. What did he change it to?

+0 Rating
Thank_you_tinythumb

- here you go

By Jo*in*Vermont on Jul 20, 2008 6:14 PM EDT
+1 Rating
Thank_you_tinythumb

- hate this bloggy blog software!

By Jo*in*Vermont on Jul 20, 2008 6:15 PM EDT
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Pdxteach_tinythumb

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By seashell on Jul 20, 2008 6:10 PM EDT

I don't think he has to do everything....but protecting the 4th Amendment is something he SHOULD have done; as well as start impeachment. He could at least make the effort...

He's setting himself up (or being set up) to follow in the footsteps of his predecessors..that's becoming clear. Would HC be doing the same? Most likely.

The honeymoon is over.

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Thank_you_tinythumb

- many of us agree on impeachment

By Jo*in*Vermont on Jul 20, 2008 6:32 PM EDT

but understand that he would never be elected if he was actively pushing it before the election. 

just stop to think for a minute about the lengths this bunch will go to in order to win and then try to envision the frenzy there would be if he was pusihng to impeach GW right now.  in a perfect world we could have both going on and not have a conflict - an impeachment and an election.  but we know the state of this union right now, don't we?!!!!  WE CAN'T WAIT FOUR OR EIGHT MORE YEARS TO GET THIS COUNTRY ONTO A BETTER PATH AND ANYTHING THAT DETRACTS FROM THAT RIGHT NOW IS DANGEROUS.  we'll have plenty of time to see where our power lies come the day after the election.

I'm holding the belief that once Obama takes office we will see some of the things we're just waiting and wishing for right now.  I understand that you're not there yet, but if you believe in the exchange of energy in the universe as I do, your positive thoughts, hopes, beliefs, wishes - whatever you want to call them - are desperately needed right now.  it's part of the power that will help us to hold him to a higher standard once and IF he enters the office.  doubts are good - they shouldn't be left behind, ever.  but when folks imagine all these scenarios where he's going to disappoint us when we don't really know what he's going to do I think it detracts from the energy we need to send and the work we need to do ----- if, that is, we really want to get to the next step in taking our country back!

jmpov

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T2t4d_tinythumb

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By Thankful2Thankful4Dean on Jul 20, 2008 6:59 PM EDT

so glad to have you and your pov back here, Jo

there's a new front page, Cheryl's report from NN...

http://democracyforamerica.com/groups/445-dfa-marin/blog_posts/25991-netroots-nation-2008-liveblogging-surprise

 

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676t107993

- seashell wrote:

By Tom Bearse on Jul 20, 2008 7:04 PM EDT

"I don't think he has to do everything....but protecting the 4th Amendment is something he SHOULD have done;"

Some constitutional scholars have argued that FISA inadequately protected domestic citizens from unreasonable searches before any amendments to it were enacted, because the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance courts almost uniformly rubberstamp all subpoena requests, understandably while under a risk of recrimination for impeding anti-terrorist activities. They suggest that ex ante judicial review should be done away with entirely, in favor of ex post judicial review for reasonableness and a political oversight process, which would offer far greater safeguards.

Apparently, you feel the rubberstamp subpoena process sufficiently protects Fourth Amendment rights, since you failed to raise any concerns about FISA as it existed prior to the amendments that passed this year. Am I right?

+0 Rating
Default_user

- Jesus doesn't run for office because his status is certain!!!

By David Reed on Jul 26, 2008 3:50 PM EDT

Click here to consider the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost: http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/19721      

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