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Progressive Values Stories: Brianna Leavitt on Taking Back Family Values - Justice & Responsibility
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Frankly, I'm fed up with politicians in Washington lecturing the rest of us about family values. Our families have values. But our government doesn’t. Bill Clinton
I interviewed Brianna Leavitt at the First Congregational Church of Berkeley. She feels conservatives have taken over the term Values and Family Values, but she doesn't want to just give up the words to them. She goes on to talk about the Progressive Values she learned in her family. Her mother always reached out to the poor and homeless. Brianna was taught empathy, justice and responsibility by her parents and grandmother. These are in opposition to the Failed Conservative Family Values that exclude people.
Brianna Leavitt-Alcantara Taking Back Family Values
Edwin: How would you define the word Values?
Brianna: I guess I would say what you hold to be important in terms of how you live your life, how you see your place in the world, how you relate to other people. Those qualities that you consider to be most important as to how you live your life or face the world.
Edwin: Is that something you’ve thought about before, values? Answer: I think so. Growing up in my family, there’s always been a lot of emphasis on that, on thinking about what kind of person you want to be in the world, and how you want to impact the people around you, or what kind of effects you want to have. So I think in my family there’s always been a lot of emphasis on that. Edwin: Is there any kind of negative type feelings you have about values. For example, values on the progressive side, they feel a negativity of values, because it’s been taken over by conservatives. Answer: Yeah, I guess obviously we hear family values a lot, and it’s a lot of times defined in this very narrow way. I guess my response to that is that I don’t like to just give them that word. When I hear people talk about it in a very narrow way, it really bothers me that they sort of get to define values, sometimes in ways that are very hostile and exclusionary. So I guess my response to that, though, is to not just give up the word. Edwin: Take it back. Answer: Yeah, cause one of the things that makes me angry about that, is that a lot of people assume that if you support gay marriage, you don’t support family values. And I feel that I support gay marriage because I support family values. So I feel like for me it’s part of my values.
A family is a place where principles are hammered and honed on the anvil of everyday living.
Charles Swindoll
Progressive Values: Brianna Leavitt-Alcantara on Justice & Responsibility
Edwin: What are Progressive Values?
Edwin: What is that value, leaving it better? Answer: I guess maybe commitment. For me, a sense of – you know, I’ve been so lucky; I’ve had the opportunity and responsibility to give back, to leave a place better than I found it. I think that comes a lot from my family. I think a lot of people in my family are very oriented toward working in society, or teaching – things where you feel like you can make a difference. For example, in my family, my dad grew up pretty poor. He was on welfare. His mom only spoke Spanish. And the idea that he had a chance to go to college, to become a professor, to get a Ph.D. Such a notion that there was a society that offered that chance to somebody who maybe in another place never would have never had that chance. Maybe as a child I grew up with that story, thinking about that’s the kind of society that allows people to make something. I think a lot of people I talk to can be very judgmental about a homeless person on the street or people who can’t seem to get work. And I think in my family there was always the same of “you don’t know what their story is. You don’t know what has happened to them to bring them to this place. And it’s more of your job to be compassionate and to try to make a society in which they are not stuck there, just ignored or left.” So I think that has sort of guided me, and given me a chance to have experiences, to be able to go travel and see other places where it’s very difficult for people to find some kind of opportunity. I think it was something that was just constantly repeated. For example, my mom always had this notion that everybody starts good, but everybody kind of is a child of God. That everybody has a light within. She would constantly talk about that. And so there was always this assumption that it’s our job as a society to let everybody show that, to shine in that way. When I was growing up, we used to go to church in downtown Sacramento. There would be homeless people there. I think that would be an opportunity for my mom – you know, she was always very open in talking with them, would give change or money. I think it was just a whole attitude that she showed to me about treating everybody like human beings and not ignoring them. I feel I see a lot of people with that, for example, with homeless people. Like just ignore them, just treat them like they’re not people. I feel like a lot of the values that my mom taught me were like that. Like it’s just every little way that you are in the world that matters. It’s that you return the shopping cart, or that you would never lie or take something – just in every little way that it has to infuse your whole life. I have always tried to follow that. It’s not just a political stand. It’s every minute. A lot of things that come to mind too, for me, are my grandparents, for example. My grandma always had this value about leaving a place better than you found it. I know it comes from my grandma, because we would go on road trips, and she would bring cleaning supplies. And if we went and stopped at a bathroom, she would clean the bathroom before we left that place. I feel like with them there were a lot of those kinds of values. Little things that they taught us – like you have a responsibility to make these better. I think my grandmother did that in little ways, and I have tried to pick a profession like teaching where I feel like I can do that every day.
Brianna: I think obviously social justice is a pursuit of a just society, the idea that people can do something with their life, even though it doesn’t matter where you start from, that you have a chance. That you are given the opportunity to offer what you have to society as well. The idea that you leave someplace better than how you found it.
Family Values at Wikipedia
Family values is a political and social concept used in various cultures to describe values that are believed to be traditional in that culture and in support of the idea that families are the basic units of culture. The phrase has different meanings in different cultures. In the late 20th and early 21st centuries, the term has been frequently used in political debate, especially by social and religious conservatives, who believe that the world has seen a decline in family values since the end of the Second World War. Because the term is vague, and means different things to different people, "family values" has been described as a political buzzword, power word, or code word predominantly used by right-wing or conservative political parties and media providers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_values
More Progressive Values Stories:
Edwin Rutsch
What Are Progressive Values? Documentary Project
http://ProgressiveSpirit.com
and Study Group
few bugs still, but love the design.. good going..
Howard did a greeeaaat job on MTP this morning. But I'm still confused over MI and FL delegates being seated.
How can that be done without the approval of both of the campaigns?
Morning Folks,
I couldn't log in last night or this morning. Now I can. Dean Scream here.
I believe in my gut that we are going to have President Barack Obama in my sense that changes are afoot.
There is a significant part of our citizenry that is disillusioned, dismayed, and committed to having an honest, fair, life serving government. I have met so many people who say with quiet conviction, yes, I'm voting for Barack Obama. None of the others will be able to meet the dire needs of now and the future.
These citizens have read his books, listened to his speeches, and know that we need a thoughtful, creative, calm thinker who lives his values.
All the taunting, cat calling, polarizing that the Clintons are engaged in gets attention, but I believe not support. We can't stand more of what we've now had for at least sixteen years.
So, with a degree of calm not usual lately, I know we will have President Barack Obama to help us through the needs of the present and the future.
Kat over at the Obama blog put this quote up in the comments which I find appropriate.
"MY FELLOW-CITIZENS: When a man hears himself somewhat misrepresented, it provokes him-at least, I find it so with myself; but when misrepresentation becomes very gross and palpable, it is more apt to amuse him."..... Abraham Lincoln
I thought Howard did great too and noted his crushie tie aaawwww. I also wondered how he was going to seat the delegates and let them vote if they broke the rules but I understand what he said about the politicians not the voters broke the rules. On the other hand I sure don't want Hill getting any extra votes.
There's a diary on KOS rec list w/ a blow by blow of Chris Wallace and Obama this morning - sounded like he did OK. We get that show at 6 PM and I'll watch it then.
Susan Rowe - spiritualism and Onward Christian Soldiers. So Arthur Sullivan as in Gilbert and Sullivan wrote OCS? No wonder it's such a great song. I have a fantasy about being a choir leader and have always wanted to do OCS and A Mighty Fortress as a medley. They are both songs that need to be sung and played loudly. Not commenting on the text just the music. Spiritiualism - founded in 1909? I read a book about Mrs. Lincoln and I believe she was a spiritualist -- at least she held seances and tried to communicate with the departed - is that the same thing?
Guess that's all I have to say this morning :~)
Experimenting here with Konqueror browser on the linux box. I almost never use it, but it let me log in.
However, there's no tool box.
PS - Susan Rowe I don't always click on youtubes, but I got the biggest kick out of the cows that typed. I found myself very sleepy toward the end, like a bed time story I guess. I followed the story till the end but then got confused. I think I was reading it as a pro-union story then it took a twist. Not very good at interpreting fiction :~) but a good story on an entertainment level.
On our great new bloggie - every other time I get the plain text box which I think I need for Mac/Safari. When I get the fancy thing, I just click refresh and it toggles to plain text and I can comment.
Did everyone see this article on Barack - from Politico I believe:
Obama team remains unshaken and unstirred
Carrie Budoff Brown
Sun Apr 27, 8:48 AM ET
After Sen. Barack Obama's third major primary loss and endless media coverage dedicated to dissecting the apparent weaknesses of his candidacy, one of the most striking elements of his campaign this week was what's missing: any hint of internal upheaval.
(more at the link - guess it will link?)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080427/pl_politico/9891
No tools in Firefox on the linux box either. But, I was already logged in.
BTW, on personal responsibility I learned at our State House session that this phrase means that whatever negative events befall one, they're your own fault. So, for example, children born ignorant is the responsibility of the parents to correct--i.e. public education is a detriment because it interferes with parental responsibility. How else are you going to insure that the "natural inequality of man" persists?
Morning again,
Just read a column by Guy Saperstein on the Huffington Post, entitled, "Hillary is nasty, but she is not tough".
Here's the last paragraph.
"Do we want a whiner to be President? Commander-in-Chief? Do we want to live through more chapters in the never-ending, but never-changing, Clinton Drama of Blame, Attack and Half-Truths? Or do we prefer a president who has demonstrated candor, who is willing to treat voters like adults, who takes responsibility for his behavior and offers thoughtful commentary on serious issues -- as Obama did with his former pastor? Do we want a president who behaves like a mature adult or someone whose emotional intelligence is on the level of a spoiled, whiny teenager?"
Oh, I suddenly got the tool bars. Let's see if hearts show up here. ♥
Yes, and that strip of film at the end of the first tool bar is for Youtube
I will reprise the same comment I make after every format change, namely, that the improvements are more superficial than significant, and that the first incarnation of Blog for America continues to be my favorite, followed by every one that followed in descending serial order until the present. I'm predicting this current version will represent the blog's nadir to me until it gets displaced for the honor by the next one.
In its ironic way, this phenomenon repeatedly makes me nostalgic for the old days, back when the most recently hated version of the blog reigned. I'm a Luddite.
Yes, it seems to be human nature to prefer the change we make ourselves and to resent the changes ofhers make. It helps to overcome our disappointment if we take turns.
This is looking pretty good on my linux box using Firefox. Haven't tried Opera over here yet.
I'm testing out the indented reply feature, Monica. John always gripes that I only reproduce and respond to parts of posts, whereas the truth is that I just think it's tedious for readers to see large segments of past posts reproduced. The quotes were only for the convenient reference of bloggers. They always retained the option of returning to the original post to which the reply was directed. Maybe this way I won't have to quote anyone anymore.
Well, if you haven't a tool bar to create links, you have to write in the < > code. It's pretty easy for links. first you use the less than sign, the you type the letter 'a' space and 'href' followed by the equal sign and quotation marks, then you copy in the url starting with 'http' and finish with another quotation mark and the greater than sign, then you put in your text or maybe just the work Link, like I did and finish off with < > and a '/a' inside. Don't include the ' with which I've set off the words.
Some blogs like Bluehampshire and DFNH require that you put in the code all the time for links, as well as for bolding or underlining.
Maybe we'll return to the days of the rating battles like in 2006. That was a good time.
Does anyone know what happens when we give a negative rating? Does the -3 at the top mean that if three people give a negative, it will still be there?
Switched over to opera on the linux box and am getting a really weird script. Anyway, no tool bar.
- OK, now there's a tool bar, but the comment box doesn't work
By Monica Smith on Apr 27, 2008 1:11 PM EDTDrip, drip, drip
-------
An Arizona super for Obama
An Arizona Democratic Party official, Charlene Fernandez, endorsed Obama last night.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/
Well, if you haven't a tool bar to create links, you have to write in the < > code. It's pretty easy for links. first you use the less than sign, the you type the letter 'a' space and 'href' followed by the equal sign and quotation marks, then you copy in the url starting with 'http' and finish with another quotation mark and the greater than sign, then you put in your text or maybe just the work Link, like I did and finish off with < > and a '/a' inside. Don't include the ' with which I've set off the words.
- http://www.tnhonline.com/news/2008/04/25/News/Unh-Is.Hub.Of.Pentagons.nonLethal.Weapons.Research.Program-3349649.shtml
By Monica Smith on Apr 27, 2008 1:31 PM EDTSitting on Glenn Shwaery's office desk in Kingsbury Hall is what appears to be an eighth grader's science project - a collection of metallic pipes, wooden supports and knobs that could pass for a hand-held telescope under construction.
The device is in fact a prototype for a light-emitting ray gun designed to seek out people's retinas and temporarily blind them - a tool for authorities to control unruly suspects or crowds. The invention, called the Smart Dazzler, is one of many at the Non-Lethal Technology Innovations Center at UNH, one of two hubs of the U.S. military's program of research at university campuses across the country on ways to control people without killing or seriously injuring them.
While not exactly secret, the center, overseen by Shwaery for the Department of Defense, does not go out of its way to advertise its work. Research is conducted at universities across the country including the other hub, Penn State, as well as the University of Central Florida, the University of Florida, the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, Seton Hall University, Old Dominion University, and others.
The non-lethal weapons program at UNH and the other universities is funded in part by a $60 million annual Department of Defense budget, according to John Keenan, a director of Science and Technology at the Pentagon's Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate.
Many inventions, both under development and still on the drawing board, seem to come straight from the pages of comic books. They range from heat rays that make your skin feel like it is on fire to guns that blast deafening sounds, substances that make people fall down or hold still, and holograms that project terrifying images on a battlefield.
This negative rating business is highly addictive.
As far as I can tell, the present system suffers from the same secret rating feature that turned the previous rating contretemps into such memorable battles.
Clinton came to my city yesterday (I didn't go) and challenged Obama to a non-moderated debate. He should accept immediately. He is not running 20 points ahead, and he needs to show SD's that he can beat Clinton one on one. Indiana is up for grabs and I feel Obama is slipping here.
She is running strong. Obama has to win the north and indianapolis to win Indiana, but he's spending far too much time down south.
Not debating her is a story here that makes it look like he's avoiding her. Weak, weak, weak.
Obama should treat Clinton the way she treats challengers opposing her who are in over their heads. This is an excerpt from an NYT editorial on 8/21/2006:
"With only a few weeks until New York’s Sept. 12 primary elections, many people are probably still unaware that Senator Hillary Clinton is facing a challenge for the Democratic nomination. Her opponent, Jonathan Tasini, is low on almost everything, from funds to name recognition. Mrs. Clinton has successfully ignored Mr. Tasini all summer, and now it seems clear that she has no intention of responding to his demands that she meet him in a debate."
<a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/opinion/21mon3.html a>
The Clinton campaign is desperately looking for free media. You do realize, right, that any event, if the media even deign to come, the camers set-ups and all the power cables have to be paid for by the candidate. I don't know about uplink facilities, but getting media coverage on location costs a bundle. And, one suspects they don't take credit cards.
This is from Steve Clemons of the Washington Note. He is NOT a Hil shill:
All hats off to those who correctly say that 'mathematically', it's very hard to see how Hillary Clinton shifts enough superdelegates to win -- but there is something afoot really trying to make this happen. As Maureen Dowd just said on Stephanopoulos' show, "Hillary Clinton has successfully repainted Obama from being incandescent to ineffectual."
In my own view, Hillary Clinton has run a mostly terrible campaign and has lost a dramatic lead over her opponent, but what is beginning to happen very late in the process is that "gravity" is finally taking hold on the former gravity-defying campaign of Barack Obama.
But my enthusiasm wanes for Obama when I note that when one scratches the surface, his proposals are far less inspiring in detail than rhetorically.
One case in point is Obama garnering credit from <em>The Washington Note</em> and later by notables like Fareed Zakaria for his then seemingly courageous willingness to recraft some of America's self-damaging foreign policy tangles -- like US-Cuba relations. Cuba through its embargo stifled relations with the U.S. seems to be the only place on the planet where the Cold War actually got colder in the last decade. Obama had proposed opening up family-related travel between Cuban-Americans and relatives in Cuba and increasing the financial amount that these relatives could send into Cuba.
The problem with this gesture by Obama is that it lacks the principles he himself speaks to so frequently. First of all, his proposal does not go back to the status quo that existed during the first three years of the George W. Bush administration. Even Bush before 2004 permitted non-tourist people to people exchanges and travel. This kind of engagement would seem a natural for Obama's foreign policy template -- and yet, when I asked senior foreign policy advisor, Susan Rice, about Obama moving to this pre-2004 status quo, I was told on an official Obama campaign conference call that he would not move there until certain conditions were met inside Cuba.
Since this exchange, I have heard through friends and acquaintances that Susan Rice felt I misquoted her. I have my exact notes and don't feel that was the case at all. In fact, I have a great deal of respect for Rice and listened to her views as expressed on behalf of her candidate very, very closely. The campaign has never told me formally that I misquoted her. However, I did hear from one of the other top foreign policy advisers to the Obama campaign -- on par with Rice but who we will leave unnamed -- that he has looked at the transcript and feels that "the truth lies somewhere between what she said and I said." I have asked the campaign for the transcript of that discussion, or the recording, which they keep on file -- but have not received it.
CLinton is close to Obama. He is losing ground in Indiana, I feel. If he can't debate her one on one, why not? It's funny how everyone changes their views just because the shoe's on the other foot. I'm for debates and public one on ones, no matter who I'm for. Obama should accept this challenge with relish.
intially. It's in line with the local blogs. At least the date/time stamp seems to have been fixed. And it allows visuals. Still checking other items out. Great to have ratings. It's an improvement for sure.
More from Steve Clemons' article titled above:
This kind of triangulation is frustrating to many -- because it plants doubts with people like me as to the seriousness and depth of Obama's positions on many issues. I still believe that Barack Obama is far ahead of Clinton in imagining a different set of institutional arrangements between America and the rest of the world, and I largely support these -- but I want to know details.
And frankly, while I disagreed with and was disappointed by Obama's timidity in going back to the Bush administration 2001-2003 status quo on Cuba, for tactical political reasons, I could understand why his campaign held the posture it did. That's politics -- and I have to keep playing my civil society role of trying to argue about the need for Obama to move further, and he needs to do what he can do.
But for the Obama camp to say one thing and then to whisper another -- one formally and another through informal assertions that a campaign principal was misquoted -- is not something that inspires trust and confidence.
In my view, US-Cuba relations are important because the way in which the next US president deals with Cuba could telegraph to a waiting, pensive world what the general contours of American behavior will be. Will we upend and change strategy with a nation in which we have had five decades of a failed policy -- or are we going to maintain the type of incrementalism that will neither win us friends globally nor fix the US-Cuba problem?
Obama does lack a lot of experience -- but the guy has lots of vision. His vision had me hooked for a while, and I could be hooked again.
But triangulating on principles like getting US-Cuba relations on a completely new and different course -- and getting the side products of stealing from Hugo Chavez a major boasting platform in Latin America and showing the world that there is a new, more enlightened "decider" in the Oval Office -- raises my concern level about Obama and his team.
I still feel Obama is going to win at the end of this race. But I have high expectations of the next presidential candidates -- and this blog plans to be as tough as it can be on Obama, McCain, and Clinton. The notion that he should be supported because of rhetoric and because we can't have four more years of a Bush-like presidency is not enough.
He must be for something real. He has had little federal level experience so needs to show us how that experience will both be requisitioned -- and then reorganized -- because having experience with old problems and applying old techniques is not enough in a time of significant historical discontinuity.
Obama's politics of hope in US-Cuba relations are just one example of running short when details surface. His political approach to Israel/Palestine also comes up short -- and in my view, he can talk all he wants about meeting Iran's leaders, but unless he is able to simultaneously resolve the serious outstanding issues in achieving an Israel-Palestine deal, he can't confront Iran with anything that Iran cares about in those discussions, which primarily is the spread of its influence and hegemonic role in the region.
(More at the link--I only posted a few excerpts)
Hi Indy,
You know, I'm not so sure he looks weak. It seems to me it could be interpreted as strength, to say no to more of the sound byte, gotcha debates. It's become a circus, and some people simply want a circus.
Just maybe it could be interpreted that he has decided to stop playing games, that he is not going to be a marionette who jumps and dangles because some loud mouth, attention seeking, phony wants to show she can outsmart him with rejoinders.
The more I think of it, the more I think it makes him look mature and focused, serious about the job of the president.
I'm thinking maybe Rove is becoming so yesterday.
Indy, that's the way I see it. I would love to hear opinions on this from lindab, rich k, and Phil as they all have experience in campaign work and strategy. I have no preconceptions as to any of their opinions.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/africa/7368628.stm
Page last updated at 10:28 GMT, Saturday, 26 April 2008 11:28 UK
Sierra Leone name Ahmed Kanu
By Mohamed Fajah Barrie
BBC Sport, Freetown
Ahmed Kanu has been appointed as head coach of the Leone Stars by the Sierra Leone Football Association (SLFA).
The former Sierra Leone international takes the job on a permanent basis after being the caretaker coach for the last three competitive matches.
The secretary general of the SLFA, Alimu Bah, said that Kanu has been given the task of leading the Leone Stars to both the World Cup in South Africa and the Africa Cup of Nations in Angola in 2010.
The 40-year-old coach admitted that it will be a tough task, as the Leone Stars are in the same group as Nigeria South Africa and Equatorial Guinea in the joint qualifiers.
...
The sky is falling (on the Obama campaign) ?
Nope.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-trounstine/im-just-sayin-again-obama_b_98850.html
Phil Trounstine
I'm Just Sayin' (Again): Obama is still the more electable Democrat
Posted April 27, 2008 | 01:36 PM (EST)
Bill and Hillary Clinton's not-so-secret argument that Barack Obama cannot win in November -- swallowed as a legitimate question by too many TV bloviators -- is based on a false assumption: that how Obama performs in a primary against Clinton in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania is a measure of how he would do against McCain in the general election.
It's a clever manipulation of some polling data, but it's bad social science and faulty reasoning.
Obama lost the Pennsylvania primary to Hillary Clinton exactly as expected and predicted. Yet in the wake of the vote there's been a constant stream of palaver from TV pundits about Obama's "problem" with working-class white voters who, it is almost universally argued, "he must win over if he hopes to defeat McCain in November."
Because she carried this demographic in the Democratic primary, Clinton is presumed by the blowhards to be better positioned among this salt-of-the-earth slice of the electorate than is Obama. But there is no evidence to speak of that demonstrates that Obama would do any worse in a general election against McCain than would Clinton, however their votes might be comprised.
In fact, according to Patrick Healy of the New York Times, one of the only political writers to take a serious look at the issue:
"According to surveys of Pennsylvania voters leaving the polls on Tuesday, Mr. Obama would draw majorities of support from lower-income voters and less-educated ones -- just as Mrs. Clinton would against Mr. McCain, even though those voters have favored her over Mr. Obama in the primaries.
...
This is what analysts like Ron Brownstein and Peter Hart have been talking about when they say Clinton's base is deeper in the Democratic Party, but Obama's is wider in the general electorate.
Moreover, while Obama's favorable/unfavorable rating is 53-40% among registered voters, and McCain's is 51-41%, Clinton's is a negative 47-49%. And while 40% of the voters say there is no chance they would vote for Obama in November, 43% say the same about Clinton.
...
<!-- Chicklets -->"Barack Obama rejected Hillary Clinton's challenge to debate ahead of Democratic presidential primaries in Indiana and North Carolina May 6, saying he wants to speak directly to voters."
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.ISL89leJoI&refer=home
Hillary is sooo obvious. She wants to get Barack off the streets with the voters and into a little room with her where she can tell all the lies she wants with no moderator to question them and try and keep Barack off his message.
What a sorry woman she has turned out to be. Would we ever have guessed this back in 2007.
If I were Obama, I would be training all myt attention on McCain and behave as if Clinton wasn't even there.
Yes. It became pretty clear when it turned out they'd been bankrolled by the Stephens/Rockefeller clan--the same people who brought us the Bushes.
Now, it seems, they've given up on the golden girl and are hedging their bets with Huckabee. How bad will McCain have to look for Huckabee to look good?
The Republican Convention follows the Democratic Convention and starts on Labor Day. What if McCain takes a tragic fall of a ladder in the mean time?
Off the street? It is a mistake for Obama not to debate at least once in Indiana. Clinton wants a one on one with no moderators. That should be something Obama can do well in. He looks afraid of her here in Indiana. And the press will dog him on it. Do it...soon.
It is a close race and Clinton can use this to say she is the better candidate against McCain if she wins Indiana.
to keep from having log in problems. I re-signed up and it seems to be working
new thread
There's a new thread -- sorry I haven't figured out how to link it yet. Thanks for trying to show me Monica.
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