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FL - It's Not Called the Hate Amendment for Nothing
Linked to groups: Florida DFA
Wow. At first glance, that's all I can say about the comments from Pastor Hayes Wicker of Naples, Florida. Here's what he said at an anti-gay event last week:This is a tremendous social crisis, greater even than the issue of slavery.
Wow. For those who don't know, fundamentalist right-wingers in Florida are attempting to pass a constitutional amendment in Florida this year that would ban gay marriage in the Sunshine State. The same gay marriage that is already illegal under four separate parts of state law. And this amendment wouldn't just ban gay marriage, it would also prevent civil unions, cities and corporations from offering benefits to gay couples and anyone from giving benefits to unmarried straight couples. But let's leave aside the practical implications of the proposed gay marriage ban in question, I've talked about that in the past and I'll come back to it over and over again throughout the year, let's look at the hate ingrained in this particular phrase.
This is a tremendous social crisis, greater even than the issue of slavery.
Keep in mind, this isn't about banning gay marriage. Gay marriage is already banned in Florida under four different laws. What this nutjob is actually saying is that the fact that they haven't yet enshrined hatred in the Florida Constitution, despite not one single legal gay marriage ever taking place in Florida, is not only a "tremendous social crisis," but one greater than slavery. That shows an astounding amount of hatred not only for gay people, but for African Americans as well.
Let's take a quick look at the history of slavery and its outgrowths in American history:
- Slavery caused approximately 30 million people to be ripped out of their homes, families and lives
- Slavery included the horrible conditions of the Middle Passage, where the cramped, diseased and abusive conditions led to the deaths of as many as 15 million people
- Slavery in America was hundreds of years of the near total subjugation of an entire class of people
- Slavery involved the beating, flogging, raping, and murder of millions of people
- Slavery tore apart families, kept people illiterate, and kept most in abject poverty
- Slavery nearly destroyed the United States
- Slavery led to the death of one of America's greatest presidents
- Slavery transformed into sharecropping, tenant farming and the prison-lease system, which combined to keep most African Americans in virtual slavery through the beginning of the twentieth century
- Slavery laid the groundwork for Jim Crow, lynching, a corrupt justice system, assassination and the long-term economic deprivation of African Americans long past the end of slavery
Now, for comparison's sake, let's take a quick look at the history of no gay marriages in Florida and the fact that the ban on gay marriage isn't in the Florida constitution:
- Gay marriage ripped no one out of their home, family or life
- Gay marriage included no Middle Passage
- Gay marriage killed no one
- Gay marriage led to the subjugation of no one
- Gay marriage involved no beatings, floggings, rapes or murder
- Gay marriage tore apart no families, kept no one illiterate and led to no poverty
- Gay marriage has had no negative effect on the United States
- Gay marriage killed no presidents
- Gay marriage transformed into no forced subjugation or de facto slavery
- Gay marriage did not lay the groundwork for segregation, lynching, corruption, assassination or economic deprivation
One of these things is not like the other.
And just in case you weren't convinced by that quote that this was all about hate, the article goes further:
Without such an amendment or a law, Wicker said, it could lead to legal marriages in Florida between “man and dog” and “father and child.”
Wow.
This isn't just about hatred, it's about stupidity. How is it possible for someone to be so wrong and so misguided about so much? In the annals of critical thinking there is a logical fallacy known as the slippery slope. Simply put the argument that one step in a particular direction guarantees that we will continue down that path towards worse outcomes. In the real world, it's hardly ever true. In this case, it's incredibly untrue. First off, without this amendment, gay marriage is still illegal in Florida. And even if gay marriage were legal, the fact that two consenting adult humans who are unrelated could marry would in no way legally require bestiality or incest being made legal. It's the height of silliness to think otherwise. Those things would still be illegal under other laws, including federal constitutional law. Beyond that, the people who support the legality of gay marriage don't support the legality of bestiality or incest. In fact, they all oppose it. Just like everyone else. And if gay marriage were made legal, it wouldn't change anyone's opinion on these other issues. How do we know? Because gay marriage is legal in several places. Bestiality and incest aren't. And there are no negative consequences for anyone out of that legalization. Not one. These arguments are ludicrous and the people that say things like:
This is a tremendous social crisis, greater even than the issue of slavery.
Or
Without such an amendment or a law, Wicker said, it could lead to legal marriages in Florida between “man and dog” and “father and child.”
are not only ignorant, they are morally bankrupt and about as un-American as a person could possibly be. Hatred of other citizens based on their innate characteristics, particularly when those characteristics harm no one, is as close to evil as one can get without raping, molesting or killing someone.
Wow is right Kenneth, I am appalled and amazed that there are people who actually think this way. Let alone try to pass constitutional amendments.
Thank you for your front thread.
Phil wrote: "I don't own ocean front property so am not as concerned as if I lived in Florida, the global food supply is a bit precarious though and I would hate to be the party (Republican) that caused a hundred million deaths because they had their head in the sand."
first you are causing deaths today with the stupid "global warming" policies by converting our food supply to fuel, starving people around the globe. Not is a hundred years, but right NOW!
Second, assuming the worst case scenario of global warming over the next 200 years, I am certain that mankind will simply adapt to the changes and life will go on. Hilton Head may not be a great getaway but that is no reason to stop third world countries from improving the lives of their citizen today with electricity nor eliminating industrial society. You know that is not going to happen. That is why it is a religion. We can't stop it and no amount of crying "sinner" with your finger pointed at the rest of us will change that. And did you ever think that if you take the best case scenario of the existing climate models we are looking at 1 degree over the next hundred years. if they are right. Hardly a reason to be starving people today is it. The sky is not falling and mankind has had to adapt to much worse in the past. Zealots, be they religious, or environmental, are all the same. Any objects to the creed is heresey. they can't take the debate.
Any objects to the creed is heresey. they can't take the debate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
not setting aside a grain reserve and paying for it with taxpayer money is from the religion Republicans practice which is every man for himself
the "ever normal granary" was national policy for decades when Democrats controlled Congress
Richard Lugar was the architect of the switch away from supply management, so Indiana might well be a good state contest to have the discussion of what it is worth to have a government grain reserve.
Well last nite the goalposts moved for me in Va.
Evidently we AGAIN have a barage of peope wanting to be delegates for OBAMA to the national convention.
So what do ya do? I have sent out all my info to the people in Va that may influence the selection at the state level. But the district level perplexes me.
Every person for themselves.
While I tend not to credit WorldNetDaily, some of what they report may be accurate. The shipping of magnet factories to China seems to be such a story.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gjwSMg_mYQDWy_CcAcakLdX__9xAD907SQUO0
What I find interesting is yet another example of Department of Energy
privatization that went on during the Clinton years.
Evan Bayh, btw, who made -much some noise about the sale and closure of the Magneteque plants is now trotting out the issue as he traipses around with Hillary and being suggested as a potential VP.
Only in Florida -- the only state in the country that outlaws gay couples from adopting children. How stupid is that???
That should be Department of Energy privatization.
BTW, i need to add to my list of non-desiderata:
NOW THERE ARE SEVEN
incineration
inundation
infestation
invasion
ignorance
injury
incarceration
I know that we usually think of incarceration as a judicious response,
but, "national security" is largely manifest by the country being in
lock-down.
linda b
that is the way the system is supposed to work, takes quite a few rounds of balloting
here according to our rules Obama can axe a national delegate up to thirty minutes aftyer the election so voting is kep open incase of a dittohead sleeper cell or something
Homosexual partnerships are offensive for the simple reason that they presume a union between equals and equality is considered violative of the natural order (top to bottom, superior to inferior, male and female). I suppose you could say it's a horizontal challenge to the vertical. LOL
12. well Phil I plan on doing some campaigning here. Make up flyers, call my people. Most of them said they would vote for me, that is about 28 votes so far. So we shall see.
Overpopulation of the world is responsible for too many of the world's problems. The US has to again regain the lead in using all the available methods of preventing unwanted pregnancies around the world in poor and/or uneducated countries.
I took out an ad in the Convention booklet, linda and the reason being every voter would see it, and I would have just donated the same dollars to Rep. Bruce Braley anyway and profits from the convention go to the candidate ... put out enough facts to show you are qualified to speak for the party in Denver, and that efforts of folks like you is how Obama wins VA. we get two minute speeches and I will talk about bringing the party together around Obama and what it will take to win Iowa
11:21 AM EDT
Hillary's distorts the past in her latest ad in IN:
http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/04/24/clinton-to-keep-defense-jobs-here/
Clinton to Keep Defense Jobs Here
Keith_Indy on Apr 24 2008 at 1:16 pm
Here’s an ad some of you may not have seen. But now (wonder of wonders) since Indiana is a battleground state in the Democratic primary, it’s been getting plenty of air play during the local news programs.
...
Hillary Clinton:
Right here over 200 Hoosiers built parts that guided our military’s smart bombs to their targets.
They were good jobs, but now, they’re gone to China.
And now America’s defense relies on Chinese spare parts.
George Bush could have stopped it, but he didn’t.
As your president, I will fight to keep good jobs here, and to turn this economy around.
I’m Hillary Clinton and I approve this message because American workers should build America’s defense.
Seems like a simple enough case, doesn’t it. Bush and the Republicans failing to do what she would do.
But wait till you here the kicker about this.
The history of the particular plant she’s talking about.
Citing national-security concerns, two Democratic lawmakers are engaged in a last-ditch effort to halt plans for the transfer of an Indiana factory that produces critical technology used in the guidance systems of U.S. “smart bombs” to the People’s Republic of China.
The Department of Defense denies any impropriety, but some observers are asking: Is it a case of politics as usual, or a cover-up?
The Magnequench factory (originally known as UGIMAG) was sold in August 2000 to a consortium that included Chinese interests. In 2001, it was announced the plant would be shut down.
The factory is responsible for producing 80 percent of the rare-earth permanent magnets used in the guidance systems of U.S. “smart bombs,” according to lawmakers.
…
In 1995, Beijing San Huan New Material High-Tech Inc. and China National Non-Ferrous Metals Import & Export Corporation partnered with investment firm the Sextant Group Inc. to acquire Magnequench and established the new entity as Magnequench International Inc.
...
The 1995 sale required approval from the Committee on Foreign Investments in the U.S., or CFIUS. The CFIUS is an inter-agency committee chaired by the secretary of treasury, tasked with conducting reviews of foreign acquisitions that might threaten national security.
Hmmm, the irony is just mahvelous… Now, who was in control of the Executive Branch way back in 1996.
On second thought, maybe her point is that she will do a better job than President Bush or her husband did!!!
Howard Dean will again introduce Tim Russert to the truth.
HOWARD ON MEET THE PRESS
stop urban sprawl with a little smart growth regional planning if you are worried about world hunger
housing developments take more corn than ethanol after you credit the cattle feed by-product back
Monica,
Why don't you like those Holidays?
my number 17 post went to 4
this is quite an adventure. I'm guessing zip file problems as we get compacted this guess
It's nice that Obama is visiting Anderson, IN. Anderson is mine and my hubby's hometown. Anderson High School is where we met.
My hubby's birthday was yesterday. He wanted to celebrate it today. It's a very special one. I almost lost him last July to an illness.
----
From the previous thread.
140.
* rdorgan
Fri, 04/25/08
Anderson High School
Anderson, IN 46016
Obama to fundraise for DNC. Howard is smiling.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4...
114.
Phil Specht
Fri, 04/25/08
to use the Sixties against our nominee it has to be Hillary because Obama was in grade school
-------------------
152.
volney simmons
Fri, 04/25/08
It is occurring to me that the chorus of doubts about Obama losing by the margin of the racist vote, openly stated by McCain's staff and fanned by Hillary…..eventually serve up a much weaker candidate.
The GOP has long been salivating to run against Hillary. And she's who they still want which is why they are casting doubts about Obama.
........
Amazing the media is falling for this "please don't throw me in the briar patch" schtick yet again.
***************
Phil, the “association by guilt” have no time frame limitations (and rightly so, imo), not because of someone’s actions during sixties but because of ideas (which stays alive) behind those actions.
It is beginning to occur to me too, that Obama’s candidacy is becoming more and more prohibited over time for the big part of the establishment (both Reps and Demos).
They beginning to realize the danger of primarily implicit (so far) message his very persona explicitly encapsulates. It is not that Obama is a “black” candidate (and he is in fact not). It is that Obama BOTH(!), “black” AND “white” candidate simultaneously! It is in that UNITY idea the main danger resides.
Looking further, the above mentioned part of the establishment will undoubtedly try to use whatever tool they have to remove Obama.
Having him to stay is the same as leaving “The sword of Damocles” above their heads.
Having him to stay is the same as leaving the chance to declare some day to us, to “the People” that: IN OPPOSITION TO, AGAINST and INSTEAD OF letting corporations and corporate government TO EXPLOIT OUR DIFFERENCES time has come TO DEPLOY OUR COMMONALITY.
It is beginning to occur to me that defending Obama today is defending our future tomorrow!
first you are causing deaths today with the stupid "global warming" policies by converting our food supply to fuel, starving people around the globe. Not is a hundred years, but right NOW!
Leave it to a Bushling to get it half right, but for the totally wrong reason.
Growing crops for fuel is indeed wasteful, corrupt, and unnecessary, but not because global isn't real.
The anti-Gay thing, destructive hurtful stupidity from hyopcrites, I sometimes wonder how the country could have been dumb enough to elect Bush twice, I read this and it's a little clearer
lunch soon, but just wanted to mention that in Engelhardt's analysis of Iraq that arrived yesterday, he made the point that before the invasion the Pentagon was really worried about having to engage in urban guerilla warfare in Baghdad and now they are. But, I don't think he's got that right. The Pentagon wasn't worried specifically about Iraq; they've been preparing for dealing with large masses of people (what you find in cities) for decades because the powers have been terrified of THE PEOPLE.
Monica,
I think those actors were on the Democratic Party's CNN/Youtube debate. Very strange comedy.
The stuff about McCain having a temper isn't working. Folks like spunky out spoken politicians. McCain is a maverick and they like it. His age is not a factor. It's his work experience that is going to matter.
Woke up in the middle of the night because the spouse was awake, so I clicked on this video
And the spouse rolled over and said "where did all those people come from?" and then I realized
that the MSM don't usually show the full extent of his rallies and it's only if you follow the alternative press that you know what's going on. Of course, the people who attend the rallies know and they tell their relatives. Which means, in a sense, that we've got a situation here comparable to the one in Iraq where the constant massive bombing raids that go on virtually 'round the clock are not reported on.
Obama's is a stealth presidential campaign and Iraq has a stealth air war. And the upshot is that the people know what's up, but the leaders and pundits don't.
I did not know that--
C.I.A. Director Announces He’ll Retire From Air Force function getSharePasskey() { return 'ex=1366776000&en=b299fa39e83159d1&ei=5124';} function getShareURL() { return encodeURIComponent('http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/washington/24cia.html'); } function getShareHeadline() { return encodeURIComponent('C.I.A. Director Announces He’ll Retire From Air Force'); } function getShareDescription() { return encodeURIComponent('Gen. Michael V. Hayden said he would continue to run the Central Intelligence Agency as a civilian.'); } function getShareKeywords() { return encodeURIComponent('Retirement,Intelligence Services,Central Intelligence Agency,Michael V Hayden'); } function getShareSection() { return encodeURIComponent('washington'); } function getShareSectionDisplay() { return encodeURIComponent('Washington'); } function getShareSubSection() { return encodeURIComponent(''); } function getShareByline() { return encodeURIComponent('By MARK MAZZETTI'); } function getSharePubdate() { return encodeURIComponent('April 24, 2008'); } By MARK MAZZETTI Published: April 24, 2008WASHINGTON — Gen. Michael V. Hayden, director of the Central Intelligence Agency, announced Wednesday that he would retire from the Air Force this summer but continue running the agency as a civilian.
The salad didn't delete. Sorry.
By Bryant Jordan
Posted : Friday Apr 25, 2008 7:06:42 EDT
There’s a saying in the Air Force Reserve: “One Air Force, same fight — an unrivaled wingman.”
By most accounts that motto holds true in theater, where no one cares whether the airman working beside him is a member of the active-duty force, Air National Guard or Reserve, so long as he can do the job. And it appears to be true at home, as well, where the Air Force is merging the components and forming associate wings in what it calls the Total Force Initiative.
But this image of one big happy family is threatened by an Aug. 9 order requiring the service’s 10,000 Air Reserve technicians to show up for work wearing an Air Force uniform.
The order was issued by Lt. Gen. John A. Bradley, commander of the Reserve Command, and is effective immediately for ARTs who are not represented by a labor union. Those with union affiliation, however, can take their fight to the collective bargaining table.
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By * rdorgan on Apr 25, 2008 10:11 AM EDT10:27 AM EDT
Howard is first.