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Progressive Values Stories: Michelle on Values or Non-values is Insulting
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We interviewed Michelle on Earth Day when she was cleaning up Lake Merritt in Oakland, California. She's a lawyer and was very careful about the definition and meaning of the words; values, progressive, liberal, conservative, etc. She sees complexity in these words and doesn't like to generalize. However, she did see equality, fairness and social justice as core liberal values. Michelle also talked about how she finds it insulting the way conservatives talk about values and imply only they have them.
Progressive Values Stories: Michelle Discussing Values
I think to divide the list of politicians or people with values or non-values, is kind of insulting.
Joan: You said you were not feeling comfortable discussing values.
Answer: I think it’s a term that is maybe overused, and so because it’s used so much, it’s gotten to a point where its meaning is kind of muddy. So it’s not clear exactly what that means. And so it’s not that I’m not comfortable with it, but that I’m not sure exactly what – if you come to me and say “I’m a person with progressive values”, I’m not sure what that means. I’d have to talk to you and find out where you’re coming from. I think in that sense I don’t now – it might have lost some of its use just because it’s not as precise as it should be.
Joan: What would you call values of say, the Democrats versus the Republicans.
Answer: The Democrats, I think it’s both a strength and weakness of them, it’s that there are lots of different subgroupings of values within the Democratic Party. I don’t know if there is any one phrase I could use about what Democratic values are.
I mean obviously, there are things that bind us together as Democrats. There are interests in equality, fairness, social justice. In terms of details and specifics, those obviously range from left to right, with those same goals in mind, but how to get there, you don’t always agree.
Joan: It sounds like you feel that there are things that bind us. Do you think there’s an important value to you, whatever you do politically or in your life?
Answer: I think just the idea that people should get a fair shake, and that’s been sort of distorted to sound like what we’re talking about is not having to take responsibility for ourselves. I think what we’re saying is that nobody gets there on their own, and we want people to have the support that they need to get where they need to be. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t take responsibility to do it.
If you have a system in place that doesn’t give them the resources that others have, those are the things that we’re concerned about.
Joan: So that would be your number one personal value, and it’s not a progressive value? Do you have any label? How do you like the term ‘liberal’?
Answer: I like the term ‘liberal’. I think liberals have down some pretty amazing things in the last century. I have no problem with the term liberal. But again, it’s a term that has a range of meanings, so if you tell me you’re a liberal, I don’t necessarily know what you mean by that either. And maybe that’s a function of labels – that they don’t really capture an entire viewpoint as well as we think they do. That they pretend to do.
Joan: Does conservative conjure up a vision? Of values?
Answer: I think conservative is another one – there are social conservatives and economic conservatives. It seems to me they come from completely different worlds. George Bush and Pat Robertson are people with completely different ideas about the world, I think, and they both get labeled conservative.
Edwin: If you had to ask a question about the term progressive values, what would you ask to find out what it means?
Answer: I guess, when you say your progressive, what is it about you that makes you progressive. It’s not necessarily specific questions, because I’m not trying to eliminate one other thing, it could be any number of things, a person calling themselves progressive.
Edwin: How would you define the term progressive values?
Answer: What does progressive mean to you? It seems to be different things to different people. To me, I think the idea behind is we want to keep expanding the net, so we get whose included, whose moving up with the rest of society and who belongs to this larger group. And the idea is that we are all moving up together, and we are gathering people.
And I think anybody who calls themselves a progressive probably has an idea like that in mind. It’s just that I guess to me that’s really general, so it doesn’t tell me enough, that I feel like I know a lot.
Some Questions To Ponder:
- Do you feel insulted by the way Conservatives talk about values and imply only they have values?
- How should Progressives address this insult?
- What is personally the most important progressive value to you?
- Do you have a personal story or anecdote of how you learned some insight into this value?
- How does this progressive value differ from conservative values?
- How have Conservative Values Failed?
More Progressive Values Stories:
Edwin Rutsch
What Are Progressive Values? Documentary Project
http://ProgressiveSpirit.com
and Study Group
Cross Posted To:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_edwin_ru_080419_progressive_values_s.htm
http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/25004
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/19/133059/220/364/499001
I have to say I thought it was great that our local newspaper, the Daily Press, allowed comments on letters to the editors and stories.
But I was wrong.
I have never seen such vile comments. Hate towards blacks, Aliens, women etc.
I am talking vile here folks.
When Michael Vick got in trouble well, who let the dogs out?
Is this what the paper wanted. This area of VA is racist. purely racist.
And they hate Barack Obama. So Linda in NM would be happy here.
This is inspiring: Barack's whistle stop in PA
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4...
linda b - I'm so sorry about your *neighbors*. Thank goodness your community has linda and Wayne and I'm certain a few good other folks.
Back to getting ready for the bbq. Argh! Too much news to read though...
I apologize for the f-bombs.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well paine, if it saves your ass from getting booted off (like Fred was)...............youre forgiven.
Imn2Paine
Sat, 04/19/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
George Washington declared open war on the British............same thing basically...........when an invader illegally occupies your homeland(thos can apply to another area as well)....people are bound to fight to get their land back.............................
Mike, I would welcome the boot. Change is constructive.
Yoooooo Hooooooo. Lotsa intelligent women here..including yours truly.
Audrey's acerbic wit is fabulous.
It's a pity that even the women on this blog are becoming divided and people are taking sides and jabbing away.
It's kinda hard to scroll a one liner...easier to scroll me. The problem with scrolling me is that sometimes I post very cool or informative stuff. LOL Keeps you on your toesies.
And they hate Barack Obama. So Linda in NM would be happy here.
LOL you have it exactly right linda b.
In case you missed it on the previous thread, congrats again on your success today.
Fingers are crossed for Denver.
A "bat" might be in order to help with your expenses, should anyone here know how to put one up.
Congrats also to Wayne for his accomplishment.
bbl
OMG. Thanks to Joan and all who want to help me get to Denver.
I will keep you informed. It's not a shoe in but I didn get one of our State Leg. endorsement today at our caucus.
Thank you to all you Howard and Jim Dean folks who keep on keepin on.
Mike,
I don't fault Sadr for what he decides, but I don't stand on his side of the line. Or more accurately I don't live on the side of the line controlled by Sadr. Praise G@d.
"And they hate Barack Obama. So Linda in NM would be happy here."
My stars~Nobody told me it was judgment day. Can I now say something really nasty about my person of choice?
Ah linda b,
I don't think Linda in NM is ANYTHING like the folks hatin' Obama in your area. Please, say it ain't so.
BTW congrats on the slate.
Why is it that impeachment hasn't begun?
GIs in Sadr City Under Fire From Friends and Foes
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041908A.shtml
Leila Fadel of McClatchy Newspapers reports: "Three weeks after US troops were ordered into the sprawling Shiite Muslim slum of Sadr City to stop rockets from raining down on the US Embassy compound in Baghdad's Green Zone, they're caught in crossfire between Shiite militiamen and the mostly Shiite Iraqi army."
I talked with a woman today who said that no matter who she votes for in the primaries, it'll be a default vote.
How many of BO's and HC's votes are default votes?
Some people appear to be choosing the least objectionable, not wanting either one.
People I talk to, who are in their 40's and up, aren't happy at all with the choices. I've met one strong BO supporter and one strong HC supporter.
Oops, two strong HC supporters, both women, one's a doctor, the other a well-off dancer.
18. Most of my delegates are over 40 and the Hillary ones now want to switch to Obama.
I don't expect you to like children, but shit is something we all have to deal with every day, cC, especially you.<<<<<<<<<<
While there is much to detest....I have the most contempt for your conflation of facts. That I don't care about your child-sh!tting experiences..is in no way a reflection of how I feel about children in general....lousy try as usual.
Little kids sh!t their pants....it's a fact....don't foist your personal issues on the blog. Idget.
Its predecessor, the First Continental Congress, had sent entreaties to the British King George III to stop the Intolerable Acts and had created the Articles of Association to establish a coordinated protest of the Intolerable Acts; in particular, a boycott had been placed on British goods. That First Congress provided that the Second Continental Congress would meet on May 10, 1775, to plan further responses if the British government had not repealed or modified the Intolerable Acts. By the time the Second Continental Congress met, the American Revolutionary War had already started with the Battles of Lexington and Concord. The Congress was to take charge of the war effort. For the first few months of the struggle, the Patriotshad carried on their struggle in an ad-hoc and uncoordinated manner. They had seized arsenals, driven out royal officials, and besieged the British army in the city of Boston. On June 14, 1775, Congress voted to create the Continental Army out of the militia units around Boston and quickly appointed Congressman George Washington of Virginia over John Hancock of Massachusetts as commanding general of the Continental Army.[7] On July 6, 1775 Congress approved "A Declaration by the Representatives of the United Colonies of North-America, now met in Congress at Philadelphia, setting forth the causes and necessity of their taking up Arms."[8] On July 8, Congress extended the Olive Branch Petition to the British Crown as a final attempt at reconciliation. However, it was received too late to do any good. Silas Deane was sent to France as a minister (ambassador) of the Congress. American ports were reopened in defiance of the Navigation Acts.
Wife just got home and everything went ok...off to the river.
mary vb...been with my wife for 34 years...she wouldn't put up
with me if I wasn't a nice guy once in a while, she's not with me for the $$$...lol
Anyone who might be interested in the change that is happening in Vermont right now.
Weatherwise speaking.
Michael Ellis
Sat, 04/19/08
Reply to this
Well paine, if it saves your ass from getting booted off (like Fred was)...............youre forgiven.
===========================
I WAS NEVER BOOTED OFF - Mikey boy - it was voluntary - I just took a break from blog life.
The ladies I walk with are all over 40, and of course we do talk about the upcoming Presidential election. There are 5 of us. One supports McCain, the other four Obama.
One thing we all agree on is we do not want Bill Clinton back in the white house doing more mischief.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041908A.shtml
Leila Fadel of McClatchy Newspapers reports: "Three weeks after US troops were ordered into the sprawling Shiite Muslim slum of Sadr City to stop rockets from raining down on the US Embassy compound in Baghdad's Green Zone, they're caught in crossfire between Shiite militiamen and the mostly Shiite Iraqi army."
Help Roy Carter if you can. we need to get rid of the Carolina Critter Virginia Foxx. Foxx off, I say.
*** cChalfonte***
Sat, 04/19/08
Little kids sh!t their pants....it's a fact....don't foist your personal issues on the blog. Idget
==================
Beggin' your pardon, Ms Scrooge. No one else seemed to mind.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/19/18852/1576/220/499145
The Times is doing an expose of military analysts being organized
by the Pentagon. like one couldn't guess.
Fred want to say I like hearing about personal issues. Please keep posting.
Ah, sunlight! At least the snow is melting. . . primroses, soon. . . .
rae hart
Sat, 04/19/08
Reply to this
Fred want to say I like hearing about personal issues. Please keep posting.
=============
Thanks, I will. mainefem likes to hear about my baby-poop travails, although she'll never admit it.
Don't know how you guys link the actual video here, but here is a link to a video of Barack on his train whistle stop today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px5pPO-AEn8&eurl=http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hqblog
Seems like an average guy to me. I like him alot.
linda b,
Congratulations!
Some scatalogical stories are special. My daughter used to toss it at the wall, not as easy to clean up.
C-SPAN1
Hillary Clinton is LIVE at a Campaign Rally
---
Watch Barack Obama @ 8:45
-------------------------------------------
8:23pm EDST
fortitude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortitude
That T shirt is a scream rae
http://www.dreamteamtutoring.com/images/DTT/Aristotle.jpg
^this one^ IMHO is how we behave best here, as we often do - from disparate parts of the nation.
Barack is in Harrisburg. Anyone been there? I guess it is working-class.
Sunlight,
nice photo sequence
It is so different from SE Mass for the amount of snow. We have forsythia and magnolia in full bloom, so you're getting {{{there}}}.
What is striking about Hillary and Barack is
that they are both hip about the correct direction for America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
___________________________________________________
"Politics ain't beanbag"
That is what Barack told the audience in PA about how Chicagoans speak of politics. Haha, "politics ain't beanbag"
did u see bill mahr last nite and the guy who went to PA and talked to bikers about obama. these dudes are for barack.
they are bitter and pissed. No jobs. NO JOBs.
Obama will win PA big time.
Have you been watching John Adams miniseries? I watched the 6rh episode tonite.
John said "you can't run a country on fear" when they were trying to get him to go to war with France.
It is one awesome event.
I have a nephew who is Secret Service. He is now guarding Jenna Bush.
He is a die hard rethug. I love him but he is not quite right when he still supports Bush.
I told him MCBUSH was too old and smells like grandpa. He shut up them.
I told him he is my big brother but this time I wouldn't let him dis our guy Barack.
FRED from Ashland OR
Sat, 04/19/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah..............couldt hack it for awhile.............whatever...........incidentaly, the name means "in the likeness of God"....................hmm
FRED from Ashland OR
Sat, 04/19/08
____________________________________________________________________________
Actually, I like that image..............one problem tho......that dark area in the ..er,,ahh.........groin area....................looks like he peed in his armour?
Edwin
I enjoyed this interview immensely and again thanks for sharing your project on the Blog.
I love it how a lady lawyer in Oakland and a dairyman in Iowa can think so alike politically.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spring broke out here about quarter to four this afternoon just in time for the prom. sun peeking out from under that three day cloud deck and the grass shot up an inch an hour. morel mushrooms are one warm night away.
You mean Oler and I are the only two to actually get the boot for being disagreeable Fred? not fair
linda b I've been watching John Adams. Incredibly well done.
Hey a very young Bill Maher is on HBOCY right now. Love it
Michael Ellis
Sat, 04/19/08
Reply to this
Actually, I like that image..............
==============
The guy you're stepping on looks like Cheney (I had one hellava time trying to spell that name)
Phil Specht
Sat, 04/19/08
Reply to this
=======
I got the boot several times in the old days when (what's her name?) was the blog monitor, but only for a couple of days. When I left for a month, it was my own decision. The new moderator is extremely liberal in comparison.
It's interesting what people end up doing for a job. We have an old school friend who is FBI. He was on CSpan a few years ago. He gave a report to a senate committee. I woke my hubby up to watch him. The senator kept mispronouncing his name. He didn't say a thing about it. He was always very polite and a very good ball player. His parents raised him well. They're in the ministry.
clean chalk board...
http://blogforamerica.com/view/25006#com...
By FRANK RICHPublished: April 20, 2008
“THE crowd is turning on me,” said Charles Gibson, the ABC anchor, when the audience jeered him in the final moments of Wednesday night’s face-off between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.
Skip to next paragraph
Fred R. Conrad/The New York TimesFrank Rich
Go to Columnist Page » Enlarge This Image
Barry BlittReaders' CommentsShare your thoughts on this Op-Ed column.
I can’t remember a debate in which the only memorable moment was the audience’s heckling of a moderator. Then again, I can’t remember a debate that became such an instant national gag, earning reviews more appropriate to a slasher movie like “Prom Night” than a civic event held in Philadelphia’s National Constitution Center:
“Shoddy, despicable!” — The Washington Post
“A tawdry affair!” — The Boston Globe
“A televised train wreck!” — The Philadelphia Daily News
And those were the polite ones. Let’s not even go to the blogosphere.
Of course, Obama fans were angry because of the barrage of McCarthyesque guilt-by-association charges against their candidate, portraying him as a fellow traveler of bomb-throwing, America-hating, flag-denigrating terrorists. The debate’s co-moderator, George Stephanopoulos, second to no journalist in his firsthand knowledge of the Clinton White House, could have easily rectified the imbalance. All he had to do was draw on his expertise to ask similar questions about Bill Clinton’s check-bearing business and foundation associates circling a potential new Clinton administration. He did not.
But viewers of all political persuasions were affronted by the moderators’ failure to ask about the mortgage crisis, health care, the environment, torture, education, China policy, the pending G.I. bill to aid veterans, or the war we’re losing in Afghanistan. Those minutes were devoted not just to recycling the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Bosnian sniper fire and another lame question about a possible “dream ticket” but to the unseemly number of intrusive commercials and network promos that prompted the jeering at the end. The trashiest ads often bumped directly into an ABC announcer’s periodic recitations of quotations from the Constitution. Such defacing of American values is to be expected, I guess, from a network whose debate moderators refuse to wear flag pins.
Ludicrous as the whole spectacle was, ABC would not have been so widely pilloried had it not tapped into a larger national discontent with news media fatuousness. The debate didn’t happen in a vacuum; it was the culmination of the orgy of press hysteria over Mr. Obama’s remarks about “bitter” small-town voters. For nearly a week, you couldn’t change channels without hearing how Mr. Obama had destroyed his campaign with this single slip at a San Francisco fund-raiser. By Wednesday night, the public was overdosing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/opinion/20rich.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin
»gasoline has gone up 20 cents in two days here and I had my first $103 fill-up
but if Obama wins PA I'm still going to buy a new pick-up
haven't started saving for that delegate spot yet because the odds are greater for a trip to Dulles
yyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Obama fund-raising juggernaut has some of Mrs. Clinton’s most devoted supporters worried and searching for a new way to support her candidacy. Alan Patricof, a national finance chairman for Mrs. Clinton, said four people had called him in the past month to discuss starting a so-called 527 group — named for the section of the tax code the groups are organized under — on her behalf.
“These are people who have maxed out to Hillary and would like to do a lot more but know they cannot do it through the campaign and thus are looking for other legal ways to give and raise more money under a different status,” Mr. Patricof said. “As I have pointed out, once they do that, they can no longer participate in the finance committee calls and they have to do it outside and away from the campaign itself.”
but if Obama wins PA I'm still going to buy a new pick-up
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Phil,
Somebodys gotta buy em.................soon they will be relics...............
FRED from Ashland OR
Sat, 04/19/08
____________________________________________________________________________
Ive never been booted..............I even asked em to boot me once........Howard musta intervened......
By Wednesday night, the public was overdosing.
Maybe the public is getting bitter about being bitter.
Being bitter might be a good motivator for change.
Ive never been booted..............
What does that mean? That yor are being nice? Know the rules?
JC got booted. I still hold that against BFA.
Her wit and humor was no match for anyone.
I'm a tough guy so I gotta drive a pick-up mentality...I don't understand it...I run heavy equipment all day long and drive home in me little Toyota Matrix, with all me bumper stickers mind you ; )
What a fricking blog.
It allows me to respond to posts that appear after my response!
Man, I don't like to be that clairvoyant~
That freaks me out..
All humans are tough.
Some more than others.
Does being tough mean you have to be a macho?
Or to put it this way, are only machos tough?
Machos are only tough in the physical domain. That's their disadvantage in the long run.
Thought i'd swing by to see the love being spread about me, being you all have resorted to your say anything about antoher blogger, in an sick effort to make yourself feel better and I know you've been following me around and I just saw some acitivity over on mydd again from ya'll.
and I see this,
4.
linda b
Sat, 04/19/08
I have to say I thought it was great that our local newspaper, the Daily Press, allowed comments on letters to the editors and stories.
But I was wrong.
I have never seen such vile comments. Hate towards blacks, Aliens, women etc.
I am talking vile here folks.
When Michael Vick got in trouble well, who let the dogs out?
Is this what the paper wanted. This area of VA is racist. purely racist.
And they hate Barack Obama. So Linda in NM would be happy here.
Imn2Paine
Sat, 04/19/08
Reply to this
Ah linda b,
I don't think Linda in NM is ANYTHING like the folks hatin' Obama in your area. Please, say it ain't so.
____________________________________
Well, Joan has always loved to make false accusations and name calling on me and others, but to see someone who used to call me her friend or hero to stoop so low and now accuse me of being racist too, I guess the only way linda b can rationalize for her other behaviors and claims against me, is not something I expected to see.
When you told me not to let the folks here change me, maybe you should have taken your own advice, or I see, too late, considering you joined the crowed to accuse me of just about anything regardless of truth.
This view makes you happy, huh?
so sad.
Don't worry, I'm better than you all, and won't resort to calling you the names that may be accurate or not.
No one is better than anyone here Linda. My Lord woman where is your humility?
You come here to see things you don't want to see, yet you call them out and make an issue of it. If you think that is doing you any good, Dr. Phil is looking for new folks to interview.
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By Susan Rowe on Apr 19, 2008 5:48 PM EDTDean is first!
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Howard Dean: Elect a Democrat
Today Gov. Dean delivered the weekly Democratic radio address to say why a Democrat should be president.
Listen HERE: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politic...
---
Dean: McCain has no effective plan to turn economy around
WASHINGTON (AP) - John McCain doesn't have an effective plan to turn around the faltering U.S. economy, Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean said Saturday.
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Among those policies, Dean said, are ``privatizing Social Security, denying our children health care, adding $8 trillion in new deficits, no plan to turn our economy around or help people keep their homes.''
Despite the nation's current economic woes, including rising unemployment, lower wages and record gas prices, ``Senator McCain believes we are better off,'' Dean said. ...full article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarti...