Dean and Obama is first - Hillary is second

Barack Obama is first. Along with Howard and Jim.

God Bless Barack and Michelle.

And George S. and Charlie G have lost all crediblity.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/24955#comment-1188658

back track

Dean is first!

Hey Fred, how are you? I am so happy I get to do my first Caucus on Saturday to determine the delegates to Obama in the 3rd Congressional District.

Talk about an honor!!

A friend mentioned this book. http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Like-Your-Ha...

RIGHT BACK TRACK

other one was wrong - sorry

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/24957#comment-1188664

Congrats linda b!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just do your best which I suspect is first class.

fred said (with typical loutish ignorance):

"Really?  You speak with such frivolous authority  - just to devalue my point.

Every item  at BO's website store says "UNION MADE IN USA"

Hillary's web site store does not say where her stuff is made."<<<<<<<<<<

standard Dem policy for 50+ years, fred.  Obama is a good Democrat.  Most folks here know that, of course

============================

cC, You are the one making ignorant assumptions without proof - I don't know if Hillary is or is not using union products and/or products Made in USA, but if she is, she would be a better Democrat (like Obama) to advertise the fact - telling millions of people we strongly favor domestic production, especially made by Union people.

The general assumption in the consumer market is that if it doesn't say "Made in USA," it probably isn't - a safer assumption than your assumption, that she is using American-made Union-made products but is simply not telling us.

It either case, Obama is doing the better thing - by using them and/or advertising the fact.

I do hope Jack Cafferty doesn't lose his job over this - he is one of the few honest and intelligent voices in the corporate media:

China snubs CNN apology over Cafferty remarks
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press Writer
Thu Apr 17, 7:37 AM ET

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080417/ap_o...

Hey Fred, how are you? I am so happy I get to do my first Caucus on Saturday...

================

Sounds great - sounds fun - this MCS condition really limits my activity in the presence of people and/or "unsafe" indoor environments in general, but I can do phone work around election time from my home.

Daily Kos can't handle the traffic. It is shut down. The debate last nite is causing a furor.

Go Obama

Been doing research into antennas for better reception when the broadcast tower changes occur with DTV

Had a dream last night that BO, HC and JM all were selling one antenna that gave you only one station - only remember JM station was the history channel.

I click on the Hernando Today link on the DFA staff's blog front because I recognized it as a Florida paper in an area where we own some other property on Florida's west coast.

I wasn't surprised to find the following info:

the opinions expressed in the paper's columns are from eight conservative, three independents and one liberal

Yet, the editor claims to be sort of bipartisan in their editorials (columns). This is in the area that gives Congress its hideous Ginny Waite-Brown. Florida has yet discovered a way to get rid of this witch.

Democracy For America is also mentioned. Seems we are all "radical" liberals because it is an aftermath of Howard Dean's campaign.

Danny, I didn't read every one of your links but I did see in the one to WaPo they referenced the Condi 30 second spot being on ABC last night. Was it actually on? I watched through every commercial and never saw it - just a 30 second black silence. Do you know if it actually ran?

Also, Patrick Briggs from previous thread - I apologize for being snarky to you - I think your pictures and post were great and it's wonderful the work you are doing. It's just there are some of us who blog here every day and we're a little borg like and it's usually newcomers who complain about our being 'on topic.' I know when I occasionally post a diary, no one ever comments on it. Anyway I apologize for my snarkiness.

I voted for Momma Bear and apple pie.

Hug a nurse...

 

14. linda b - I wonder if it's shut down or it is getting hacked - I tried to get on at work and there was some crazy diary about Fox commentator having someone jailed b/c he didn't want him to ask a question - it looked like Daily KOS but was just this crazy diary - and I know I typed in www.dailykos.com.

It would be helpful if DailyKos' Marcos would call on all its readers and contributors to boycott ABC for a month or two, in particularly Sunday morning talk show "This Week."

Another target should be Pat Buchanan, especially after his suggestive remark about deer hunting and shooting Obama. Pat's got to go, he's really beserk!

I have bloghog disease today - I thought it was downright funny last night in the debate when Hill started talking about how her granddaddy worked in a mill -- I was thinking 'Oh No -- son of a millworker all over again lol"

212-456-7777

Also: dial 818-460-7477 press 2 then 6 then 639

ABC NEW YORK NEWSROOM: (212) 456-5100 newsradio@abc.com Newsroom Fax Machine 212.456.5150

kos is back up

Susan,

I was ready to buy the mama bear with the flowers until I saw it was $59.95.

Yikes! No bear is worth that much.

I'll give anyone a real live diminutive Florida Black Bear for nothing if you just come get him/her and keep him out of our garbage can at night:))

Annilow

Thu, 04/17/08

Danny, I didn't read every one of your links but I did see in the one to WaPo they referenced the Condi 30 second spot being on ABC last night. Was it actually on? I watched through every commercial and never saw it - just a 30 second black silence. Do you know if it actually ran? 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The ad only ran in Philadelphia, but it did run.  

Here is the ad:

Danny
Communications Director

Or email to:

Peter.Salinger@abc.com

Peter Salinger  is THE MAN IN CHARGE OF ELECTION COVERAGE

Tell them it's about the issues, not personal attacks, or whatever your thoughts are.

I have to take exception to Tom's position that a candidate for national office needs to stay within some pretty narrowly defined ideological fences so as not to alienate significant segments of the electorate.

I firmly believe that a liberal candidate with sufficient confidence and charisma can articulate a strongly enviromental, economically realistic, non-militaristic, non-interventionist program, defy the media to attack it, and triumph in a general election.

Obama did point out in his gentle way what the ABC goon squad was up to, which puts him up a notch in my estimation.

He's certainly the least objectionable of the 3 candidates, and one hopes, can be persuaded to abandon some of his more loathsome stands (like pushing coal, and unquestioning acquiescence to Israel's loony aggressiveness) once in office. I hope he follows through on his pledge to investigate Bush and his criminal cronies.

1:10 pm

...scribbled on note cards in the ABC prep-room:

Senator Obama, Senator Clinton has said that if SHE were a member of Reverand Wright's church and SHE had heard him say the terrible things he said, SHE would have gone all Terminator on his ass.

Why did YOU not go all Terminator on his ass?

• JeffLieber's diary :: ::

Senator Obama, in 1993 you got change at a tollbooth from a man who was later discovered to have killed a dozen people.

My question... why did you MURDER those poor people?!?

Senator Obama, have you always been this black and is it possible that you might get blacker sometime in the future?

Breaking News (I think):

Council member and newly elected superdelegate Harry Thomas Jr., initially a supporter of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, is announcing in minutes that he will cast his vote at the Democratic National Convention in Denver for Sen. Barack Obama.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGC5Qp

One by one!

GObama!

I just gave $50 to Obama. Match it.

www.barackobama.com

NY Times April 17, 2008

Clinton Uses Sharp Attacks in Tense Debate

by ADAM NAGOURNEY and JEFF ZELENY
PHILADELPHIA — Senator Barack Obama found himself consistently on the defensive as he and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton met Wednesday night in a tense debate that left him parrying questions and criticism on issues including values, patriotism and his association with onetime radicals from the 1960s....Accordingly, Mrs. Clinton did not let an opportunity pass as she repeatedly challenged Mr. Obama on his record and views — assisted, as it turned out, by vigorous questioning by the two moderators from ABC News, Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous.

The result was arguably one of Mr. Obama’s weakest debate performances....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/us/politics/17debate.html?th&emc=th

==============================

What planet do these people live on??????

This is such bullshit - Hillary attacks, Barack does a great job of responding to her attacks and this is being "on the defensive"????

NY Times sucks

linda,

I also gave $$ to Obama yesterday and let my name & email address be given to the matcher. I received her name but haven't gotten any emails from her.

Anyway, it's nice to know you can double your money so easily:)

I sent  emails to both Jeff and Adam at NY Times expressing that fact.

jao wright - You're not alone with respect to your view that Hillary is tough. My mother in law is a devout Hillary supporter. My mom started with Hillary - became lukewarm to her but she still defends her and likes her *toughness*.

I think Obama is tough - but he's not a street fighter tough - he is tough and smart. I also think he's much more honest, deep thinking and a visionary. I don't those qualities in Hillary. I'm just tired of the politics of the past and the scorched earth practices. JMO

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mary vb  Thanks for the response. I respect your opinion.  Obama will need to hone those toughness skills greatly, because you know what they'll try in the fall.

Sorry, Can't get rid of the bold, it comes that way. 

26. DFA Staff -- Danny, thanks for answering my question about the ad running last night. Glad to hear it wasn't blacked out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The debate was a Clinton campaign event throwing the kitchen sink at Obama but he still won it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Phil   Thanks for the response. He needs more of this thrown at him because he needs to handle it well if & when he's the nominee.  I don't want McCain to be elected.. We must stop him. 

ETHANOL AND FOOD PRICES

http://www.counterpunch.org/bryce04172008.html

The outrages of the ethanol mandates are growing by the day.

Last week, a study funded by American beef, pork and chicken producers estimated that the total cost to taxpayers of the corn ethanol mandates now exceeds $33 billion per year. That's equal to about $106 per American citizen. While the soaring cost of the ethanol are maddening, even more galling are the continuing claims by a group of ethanol apologists who insist that the ethanol industry is having no effect on food prices. Those spurious claims are being made at the same time that the World Bank is warning of a global food crisis and unrest is increasing in several countries due to soaring food prices.

Several factors are driving food prices higher including growing global grain demand, crop failures in other countries, rising energy prices, and the weak dollar. That said, its abundantly obvious that the ethanol apologists are denying reality. There's simply no question that the key variable in the food price equation--and the one that could have been easily avoided--is the ethanol scam.

The numbers tell a clear--and disturbing -- story.

Since 2000, the amount of corn used to make ethanol has increased nearly six fold. By next year, according to the National Corn Growers Association, some 4 billion bushels of corn--about one-third of the expected crop -- will be used to make motor fuel.

The soaring demand from the ethanol sector has helped push prices higher for all grains. Over the past two years, corn prices have more than doubled and soybeans have nearly tripled. Those soaring grain prices are likely to mean higher food prices for years to come.

Several studies have quantified the overall cost of the ethanol mandates. Last May 2007, Iowa State University's Center for Agricultural and Rural Development, released a report which estimated that the ethanol mandates have increased the food bill for every American by about $47 due largely to higher grain prices. The Iowa State researchers concluded that due to these higher food prices, American consumers are enduring a "total cost of ethanol of about $14 billion." And that figure does not include the billions of dollars in federal subsidies for corn growers or the $0.51 per gallon tax credit that goes to the ethanol producers.

1:35PM

jao

I believe that Obama is much tougher than you think. He hasn't had to be as tough as he can thus far. Judging by his "autobiography" "Dreams From My Father" he has lived one tough life.

McCain is a very weak candidate, so you will see the RNC throwing kitchen sinks as well. Obama lets them bounce off while continuing with his winning ways. He will put the gloves on if necessary however.

BTW in the physical areana, his stepfather Lolo bought Barry boxing gloves andtaught him to box when living in Jacarta after he came home with a black eye one day.

 didn't think ABC was unfair.  I thought  they were tough. I enjoyed the debate, but I don't  Have a major preference with the candidates. But I am leaning toward Hillary. I think she's tough. We need tough,imo

=======================

"Macho" women get no more respect from me than "macho" men

My grandmother was a macho woman and it sucked - besides that, she was a male chauvanist, and many "tough" women are.

Fred:

The following link enumerates a dozen recent articles with a pro-Clinton, anti-Obama slant from the "Paper of Record"

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_dean_pow_080417_in_wake_of_scandal_2c_.htm

1:39pm

jao I agree that Hillary did well as she usually does in debates and that she would be a good president if she gets the nomination. However, I disagree about the way the debate went. All they did was ask 'gotcha' questions about Rev Wright and flag pins and all the other nonsense that has been hammered to death by the tabloid/MSM. Obama kept trying to get to important issues like healthcare and the environment and the economy but the 'moderators' kept it on a Disneyesque level IMO and one which favored Hillary. It was a stupid debate and biased toward Hillary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Annilow  Again thanks for the response. I agree they did ask some gotcha questions of Obama. Allready had lots asked about Hillary in previous debates,imo. He did well with his answers, but he needs to hone in his skills on this because they will blast him in the fall. I'm sure we can agree on that.

Have a great day & hope you got your health insurance taken care of. Seems I remember you were trying to make some decisions about that a while back. 

There's tough out of vanity and contempt

and tough from being forged with a tough life and tough challenges. 

Hillary has had a lot of priveleges, the least of which is being pretty, white and blonde, her toughness is vanity, IMHO -  she tries to be one of the folks with whiskey and guns, but it is all charade

The right wingers were right, she is tough, but in bitchy way, not a strength-of-character way.

My Obvervation is that Obama likes to keep his powder dry, and uses his proverbial shots in the most deadly time and manner.  Hillary is reckless.

According to TPM - 10MM people got their brains damaged last night watching the debate. The.most.watched.debate.ever. Guarantee that's all ABC cares about. Sickening.

...but he needs to hone in his skills on this because they will blast him in the fall....

=============

don't worry about Obama.  He knows what he's doing.  He's a big boy who can take care of himelf.

Hillary is the one to worry about.  She has all the characteristics and baggage to be portrayes as  somewhere between and "angry clown" and "happy witch", and Republicans have had years to caricature her.

Hillary only 'appears' tough when she's slinging mud - she whines like a spoiled child when it's aimed at her.  I think we've had enough of that crap.  Obama is strong without playing their game - and we'll never change the way Washington works if we insist on candidates who are skilled at 'playing that game'.  her ego is so much like Bush's - bold outrageous lies, never admit you're wrong, blame everything that goes wrong on someone else.  Hillary won't win against Obama or McCain - unless she finds a way to cheat.  you heard her last night - she wouldn't still be standing on that stage, in this race IF SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE SHE WOULD BE THE BEST PRESIDENT.  she's staying in it until the end because her superior judgment tells her she is the best candidate and we idiots who voted for Obama are wrong.  she knows better than a majority of voters, of states, of delegates.......  she's always right so why don't we just go away and let her have her throne?!!!

sorry, jao - I agree that Obama needs to be 'tested' but this media-supported firing squad of hers is damaging the party.  it makes us appear that we're just like the worst of the republican hacks.  we, all of us,  deserve better than that. 

Hillary only 'appears' tough when she's slinging mud - she whines like a spoiled child when it's aimed at her. 

==============

touche!

re: The.most.watched.debate.ever

good - that means Americans had a good look at who has the strength, intelligence and grace to be  a great POTUS and who is just a whining little pol who CAN'T answer the tough questions herself.  and they saw what losers the moderators were.  she really had a pretty sucky debate - for her.  she's usually 'on' better than she was last night. 

she admitted she lied about Bosnia

she admitted Obama could win

she admitted the only reason she's still in the race is because she thinks she would be the best candidate - not that the voters thinks she's better - SHE thinks she's better.

the press may be having fun with that debate, but I don't see her gaining much traction from her performance.  I expect the republicans to start the meme soon that they NOW think that Obama is the one to beat - the same reverse psychology that they used on Dean when he was running.

are we going to play the same old game and get the same old results?

John wrote "I firmly believe that a liberal candidate with sufficient confidence and charisma can articulate a strongly enviromental, economically realistic, non-militaristic, non-interventionist program, defy the media to attack it, and triumph in a general election."

Okay, but we don't have any bionic candidates.  Who's closer to the candidate you're describing, Dennis Kucinich or Barack Obama?

Just like a woman

Queen mary, shes my friend
Yes, I believe Ill go see her again

Nobody has to guess
Hat baby cant be blessed

Till she sees finally that shes like all the rest
With her fog, her amphetamine and her pearls.

She takes just like a woman, yes, she does
She makes love just like a woman, yes, she does

And she aches just like a woman
But she breaks just like a little girl.

-Bob Dylan

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/bob+dylan/just+like+a+woman_20021234.html

ABC (Charlie and George) continue to be slammed.

Here's a sample:

"ABCNews, George and Charlie, thanks for helping to elect McCain. And for giving Hillary every opportunity to drag Obama down with her.You did exactly what Obama is trying to work against. It's very sad that you passed up this opportunity to let the candidates talk about issues. Real issues that matter.All the more reason for me to be pro-Obama '08."

And another:

"This debate was the worst debacle I've ever witnessed on a news network. As a journalism major who worked in the television industry, I've never seen such biased, offensive, and irrelevant questioning of a candidate. I thought I was watching Fox News, with debate questions being posed Obama by Sean Hannity and Pat Buchanan; I will never watch ABC again, and as a public high school teacher, I told all my students about how those muckrakers over at ABC put on the most horrific display of journalism ever in the history of television. I think George and Charlie should be ashamed of themselves-- they put Obama on the defensive, then afforded Clinton the opportunity to try to deliver the KO punch. Never seen anything like it !"

And it goes on and on with over 15,000 commentors so far most of them blasting ABC!

...but he needs to hone in his skills on this because they will blast him in the fall....

=============

don't worry about Obama.  He knows what he's doing.  He's a big boy who can take care of himelf.

Hillary is the one to worry about.  She has all the characteristics and baggage to be portrayes as  somewhere between and "angry clown" and "happy witch", and Republicans have had years to caricature her.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for your response, Fred. However, I don't agree with  all the name calling on either side for either candidate. I understand you have  a lousy opinion of Hillary & that is your right . Many here, I know, share it. IMO, which I'm entitled to, she is trying to do something a woman has never been able to do. I respect her for that. She's smart & she's tough. Obama is extremely intelligent & I think is a truly caring person. If he's the nominee, I want him to win. If she's the nominee, I want her to win. In fact I'll even say, I like her.

Several factors are driving food prices higher including growing global grain demand, crop failures in other countries, rising energy prices, and the weak dollar.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

rural poor the world over are fleeing the inability to make a living growing crops because of low farm gate prices caused by America dumping its surplus on the world market, and rather than being able to feed themselves and others are ending up in the slums surrounding every major city in the world

the cure for this is higher prices

and they have to be more than enough higher to counteract the rising costs for inputs and transportation caused by the weak dollar/high energy intertwined effect

so America putting the surplus to any use other than the dumping of the last several decades is a good thing

well, well....

Until tonight's debate, I didn't really think Hillary Clinton would go so far as to attempt to sink the whole Democratic Party campaign in her struggle for power. But now it is clear that she has no limits. Barack Obama, attempting to take the high ground, gave her a pass on her despicable behavior.

The fact that she would drag up this pathetic red herring about Obama's alleged ties to so-called terrorist Bill Ayers (my brother!) brings her right down to the level of Fox News and the National Enquirer (which also suggested that Obama had murdered his gay lover). Obama needed to call this tactic for what it is: McCarthyism. This is the most base version of McCarthyism: Did you know this communist? When were you last with this communist? Did you denounce this communist? When did you stop beating your wife?

This desperate strategy marks the kind of Republican tactics of the Clinton camp. We always knew Bill Clinton was the architect of the Democratic Party move into a Republican stance on policy. Now these so-called centrist Democrats are imitating the take-no-prisoners tactics of the Karl Roves of the far right.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-ayers-/clintons-mccarthyism-and_b_97220.html

I understand that Stephonapolus(sp) & Hillary did not get along when he was there in the white house. I don't think he's biased toward her as some suggestions seem to indicate.

I think all the uproar about the debate is because many who are strong supporters of Obama don't want to see him have to answer some tough questions. IMO, it's kind of like when someone accuses your child of a wrongdoing, the first reaction is to protect & deny. Why, I think because your emotions are so caught up that it trumps logic.

Oh well, I'm just one of those "women" who would probably be considered maucho, Fred. I stand up & fight for myself.   

jao - You absolutely are entitled to your opinion. Your gracious in your even-handed praise of both candidates. You don't trash anyone for supporting Obama like others who come here on occasion.

Your s/b you're.

jao wrote "If [Clinton]'s the nominee, I want her to win. In fact I'll even say, I like her."

This means you either have disregarded her vote to authorize the attack of Iraq, her leadership role in the DLC, and her antipathy towards Dean's role in the party in making your decision, or you agree with her with respect to those political leanings and policy choices.  I just wondered which it was.

Tom wrote:

Okay, but we don't have any bionic candidates.  Who's closer to the candidate you're describing, Dennis Kucinich or Barack Obama?

FDR was such a candidate. Alas, we don't have one this cycle.

Barack has the charisma, Dennis had the issues.

Where is Barack Kucinich when we need him?

jao

I believe that Obama is much tougher than you think. He hasn't had to be as tough as he can thus far. Judging by his "autobiography" "Dreams From My Father" he has lived one tough life.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I certainly hope you're right.

...Thanks for your response, Fred. However, I don't agree with  all the name calling on either side for either candidate. I understand you have  a lousy opinion of Hillary & that is your right . Many here, I know, share it. IMO, which I'm entitled to, she is trying to do something a woman has never been able to do. I respect her for that. She's smart & she's tough....

========

Thanks for your response as well. 

But isn't the name-calling and the dirty stuff what worries you?  Isn't that the skill at what Hillary seems to be superior, and what you worried about with Obama? (that's he's not as "tough")?

I was perfectly willing to hold my nose and work for Hillary, if she had been the de facto nominee, but now we have a better alternative, someone who will not only win, but will make the democratic party better, and even more important, make the country better, than Hillary ever could.

Voting for Hillary because she is a woman should not be a criteria, unless all other factors are equal.  In the bigger picture, women will not be any better off, not even as a role model.  Would you tell your daughter to stay will a philanderer, like Bill who gets blow jobs at the office and lies about it?

jao

ABC was pathetic. Hillary would have gained a lot of respect if she had confronted the questioners instead of playing along.

Barack at a rally in Raleigh (sounds like a nursery rhyme LOL)

--From politico.com
-------
I will tell you it does not get more fun than these debates. They are inspiring debates. I think last night we set a new record because it took us 45 minutes before we even started talking about a single issue that matters to the American people.

It took us 45 minutes — 45 minutes before we heard about health care, 45 minutes before we heard about Iraq, 45 minutes before we heard about jobs, 45 minutes before we heard about gas prices.

Now, I don’t blame Washington for this because that’s just how Washington is. They like stirring up controversies and getting us to play gotcha games and getting us to attack each other. And I’ve got to say Sen. Clinton looked in her element.

She was taking every opportunity to, you know, get a dig in there.... That’s all right, that’s her right, that’s her right to kind of twist the knife a little bit....

Look, I understand though, because that’s the textbook Washington campaign, because that’s the politics that’s been taught to be played, that’s the lesson that she had heard when the Republicans were doing the same things to her back in the 1990s.
-------
Fighting back with velvet gloves.

I think all the uproar about the debate is because many who are strong supporters of Obama don't want to see him have to answer some tough questions.

The point is, he's already answered those same *tough questions* over and over and over again. How many times does a person need to hear the same thing repeated over and over and over again. Same goes for the Bosnia question to Hillary.

People wanted to hear them talk about the issues. The debate was a waste of time and apparently the live audience thought so, too, as Charlie and George were booed at the end.

Greg Mitchell booked on Olbermann tonight to give his response to the debacle last night.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4...

Re: the change in policy.  This is not new news.

BO has been saying for months that "we have to win the war in Afghanistan." Troops will be rotated outta Iraq and into Afghanistan IMO...and we know what happened to Russia in Afghanistan.   It's looking like putzco and our dems are working together on this.

HC has said something to the effect that "we have to prepare for the NEXT war."  parphrase.

Let's not bury our heads in the sand.  More war and killing no matter who's elected.  What's the diff if ours are being killed in Iraq or in Afghan..not to mention all the innocents still being bombed?  Of course voters want outta Iraq, but do they realize that the fix is in for a change of war venue?

*********************************

So now, according to HC, we not only have to jump to Israel's defense, but to the rest of the ME as well.  Where are all the troops and money gonna come from to do this?

Glenn Greenwald on the debate.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2...

Would you tell your daughter to stay will a philanderer, like Bill who gets blow jobs at the office and lies about it?

Not in a New York minute! :~)

something bugs me.

hillary rarely looked at the camera and talked with her eyes looking upward. she was all over the place.

and why did they have a light on chelsea when they went to her and everywhere else it was dark? strange.

a really strange and dissapointed nite.

Obama kept pretty cool considering the crap they made up.

and I didn't see hillary with a flag pin either.

John wrote "Where is Barack Kucinich when we need him?"

Thank you for your response.  This was precisely my point.  With all of his merits, even Gov. Dean was not the whole package.  To support him, you had to make the conscious decision that it was worth struggling to elect someone who would at least represent your interests as a democratically elected leader, whether or not he championed all of your personal policy views.

The more Democrats we elect to representative office, the more clout we wield in the halls of Congress, through committee chairs, voting majorities, and veto-proof vote margins.  In turn, this puts us in a position to work and militate for more progressive candidates who will pressure moderate Democrats, whose party designation is more perfunctory than committed.

Of course there'll be a Sen. Landrieu for every Sen. Feingold.  That's because we're relying on the strength of the 50 state strategy to improve our party majority by drawing from all the regions of the country.  But if we gain strength in numbers, we'll have that much more leverage as Democratic constituents. 

jao wrote "If [Clinton]'s the nominee, I want her to win. In fact I'll even say, I like her."

This means you either have disregarded her vote to authorize the attack of Iraq, her leadership role in the DLC, and her antipathy towards Dean's role in the party in making your decision, or you agree with her with respect to those political leanings and policy choices.  I just wondered which it was.

I didn't see hillary with a flag pin either.

I've never seen her with one, only the Wilma Flintstone necklaces.

So now, according to HC, we not only have to jump to Israel's defense, but to the rest of the ME as well.  Where are all the troops and money gonna come from to do this?

============

That was last night - one upmanship on BO for the ME.  She hasn't changed much since Kyl-Lieberman, and never apologized for that vote.

Neither of them have the political courage it would take to challenge the whole "War on Terror" meme, which is what the Democrats should be doing.

9/11, terrible as it was (and I'm a native New Yorker who was working on Capitol Hill on 9/11) was the work of a small group of fanatics who are no threat to the United States, any more than the folks who took down the Murrah building were.

We, as a nation, face real challenges -- energy, the environment, educating our kids, finding an answer to people with industrial era training in a post-industrial world.  A few religious fanatics should be not only on the back burner, but off the stove. 

I didn't see hillary with a flag pin either.

I've never seen her with one, only the Wilma Flintstone necklaces.

-----------
Hilarious, Karen. I wish I could be her stylist - I'd make so many changes and I don't mean this to sound *catty* - sorry, it's my area of expertise if you will.

Well said Rich!

Obama kept pretty cool considering the crap they made up....and I didn't see hillary with a flag pin either.

===============

Was she gloating? I don't think she commented on the flag pin.

It's like saying if you don't wear a Crucifix or an Imacculate Conception medal around your neck, you don't have faith and  you're going to hell.

it's a big mistake to confuse what the DLC does with being 'moderate'.   and Hillary does not just have a 'leadership role' - she and Bill wrote the playbook.  selling out to the highest bidder has become an art with their 'leadership'.   perhaps some history lessons are in order.

FRED from Ashland OR
Thu, 04/17/08

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fred, see I believe my daughters have the right to choose & make their own decision about their lives even if I don't agree with them. And many times I haven't because I could see the handwriting on the wall. But they have to make their own decisions, once they're an adult. I can voice my opinion to them, which I do, but it's really their decision, always. Many times they've said, no, don't tell me because you're probably right & I'm not ready to accept it, yet.

I'm not for Hillary because she's a woman. I'm proud that a woman is in the hunt for the presidency, but I've only recently begun to lean her way. I've been on the fence for a long time. I like Obama, but I'm concerned about him winning in Nov. I know most here are not. I really sincerely hope you're all right.   

jao -- I got my health insurance taken care of -- I turned 65 LOL (Medicare dontcha know)

jao wrote "I would prefer she support Dean 100%. Dean is very fair & neutral in his DNC role. Don't you think he probably prefers Obama, though?  I do."

I have to admire your complete candor.  We seem to agree on the issues that divide us from Sen. Clinton, but if your decision isn't affected by that, then I respect that and we can disagree on our choice of candidate without rancor.

Yes, I'm convinced beyond a doubt that Dean prefers Obama, for an obvious reason.  Obama has basically picked up the fallen standard of the Dean campaign and carried it on by carefully avoiding most of the mistakes the Dean campaign fell victim to.  To me, Obama's campaign is an homage to Dean's candidacy.

On the flag pin, I heard a caller on C-span say that is actually disrespectful to where a  flag pin, because in the flag regulations, it says she cannot use the flag in that manner. Not supposed to have it's image even on other articles, like plates or cups or any of that stuff. So, maybe someone should bring that up, the next time Obama is asked about it.

jao wrote:

On the flag pin, I heard a caller on C-span say that is actually disrespectful to where a flag pin, because in the flag regulations, it says she cannot use the flag in that manner. Not supposed to have it's image even on other articles, like plates or cups or any of that stuff. So, maybe someone should bring that up, the next time Obama is asked about it.
-------
Bingo! My husband graduated from Canoe U (The US Naval Academy) and he said you're not supposed to *wear* a flag per se. Also, our neighbor flies his flag every day - never takes it down. A retired Navy Captain. It's stays out in all weather, etc. Drives my husband nuts.

Fred wrote "It's like saying if you don't wear a Crucifix or an Imacculate Conception medal around your neck, you don't have faith and you're going to hell."

I'll be damned if it isn't.  You hit that one straight off the tee.

There is not *war on terror* and we are not at war and putz is not a war prez.

If these things aren't debunked, we'll have another war prez with unlimited powers and I doubt either HC or BO will  mind that at all.  Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And w/o backing impeachment, one will sail into office with the blessings of the fascist gov't that is already taken hold.

Barack's mention of Hillary being in her element in last night's debate has hit all the news wires. Please read.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4...

Good response about how he'll show far less restraint against the Republicans in the Fall.

vb wrote "our neighbor flies his flag every day - never takes it down. A retired Navy Captain. It's stays out in all weather, etc. Drives my husband nuts."

I hate that.  You see the most raggedy flags around.  It's like they're surrendered to the elements and abandoned.  You'd almost think they were running a copy of the Bill of Rights up the flagpole.

okay, so now we know that ABC wanted to play 'gotcha' and avoid the real issues, so I have a few questions for them...

why didn't you ask Hillary about the pardons?

why didn't you ask Hillary where her flag lapel pin was?

why didn't you ask her about her pastor's legal problems?

why didn't you ask her why she didn't throw Rev Wright out of the White House when her husband invited him there?

why didn't you ask her about her prayer group?

why didn't you ask her about Bill's contributors to his library and fund perhaps being a conflict of interest?

why didn't you ask Hillary why she's using the same tactics of personal destruction that she decried when they were used against her during her Senatorial campaign?

why didn't you ask Hillary any of these questions?

it's a big mistake to confuse what the DLC does with being 'moderate'.   and Hillary does not just have a 'leadership role' - she and Bill wrote the playbook.  selling out to the highest bidder has become an art with their 'leadership'.   perhaps some history lessons are in order.  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't for a minute confuse the DLC with being moderate. I believe, if you are a moderate in your views, rather than a liberal, that the DLC with not be as big a mistake as your statement  indicates. But again that is my feeling about it. I don't think either one of them is selling out to the  highest bidder. I don't see it that way. Frankly, as far as Bill Clinton is concerned, I didn't even vote for him the first time he ran. I didn't vote for father Bush either. I do think Bill Clinton has done some good things around the world since he's not been president. Yes, he been paid for his speech's, but he's done other good  things, he did not have to do. And that This Bush will never do after he's out of office. 

Tom, thanks for your comments. We'll see what happens down the road.

mary~ I pulled 'Wilma Flintstone necklace' from one of the bloggers here, think it might have been linda b, but can't remember. Isn't that called a fashion faux pas. :~) 

rich wrote "Neither of [the candidates] have the political courage it would take to challenge the whole 'War on Terror' meme, which is what the Democrats should be doing."

I don't disagree with you in any way except as a tactical matter, doing so would open them to a huge flank attack by right wing flag lapel pin wearers. 

yes, seashell, that Obama is such a warmonger.

3:06 PM EDT

Barack's mention of Hillary being in her element in last night's debate has hit all the news wires. Please read.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4...

Good response about how he'll show far less restraint against the Republicans in the Fall.

+++

mary vb -

Indeed.

IMO, Barack treated Hillary last night like a fellow Democrat (we're in the same party) but it's too bad Hillary didn't return the favor. 

Jo~ good questions, here's another... why didn't you ask Hillary about her lies on NAFTA?

Of course there'll be a Sen. Landrieu for every Sen. Feingold.  That's because we're relying on the strength of the 50 state strategy to improve our party majority by drawing from all the regions of the country.  But if we gain strength in numbers, we'll have that much more leverage as Democratic constituents

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tom, agree with that, totally. 

3:12 PM EDT

vb wrote "our neighbor flies his flag every day - never takes it down. A retired Navy Captain. It's stays out in all weather, etc. Drives my husband nuts."

I hate that.  You see the most raggedy flags around.  It's like they're surrendered to the elements and abandoned.

...

+++

My wife and I are not a Stars and Stripes flag flying sort of household.

Though we are scouting around for a theme type of flag -- a smiling mailman flag [smile].

"It's a revolution.  We're going to have to offend SOMEONE!"

1776 

Bush started wearing the flag pin after 9-11 which was fine. But since Iraq, it represents his third-finger salute to the rest of the world.

Barack wants change, and imo, that's why he refuses to wear one because to do so says "I support Bush".

jao - I'll just print wiki's section on criticism and trust that if you do really care to learn what the DLC is doing you will follow up.  they ARE the champions of corporate America - they make sure they continue to have a strangle hold on our jobs, our healthcare, our cost of living.  and they LOVE war - that's another whole book on it's own!  whatever else, just remember that they do not plan to lose this election for Hillary and they will stop at nothing to do so.  and they are as much responsible for the last 4 years of GW as anyone who voted for him.

Criticism

The DLC has become unpopular within many progressive political circles.

Some critics claim the strategy of triangulation between the political left and right to gain broad appeal is fundamentally flawed. In the long run, so opponents say, this strategy results in concession after concession to the opposition, while alienating traditionally-allied voters. For example, critics point out that liberal Democrat Michael Dukakis won a larger share of the vote in his presidential campaign (46%) than Bill Clinton in his first campaign (43%), despite Clinton's more centrist positions.

Others contend that the DLC's distaste for what they refer to as "economic class warfare" has allowed the language of populism to be monopolized by the right-wing. Many argue that the Democrats' abandonment of populism to the right-wing, shifting the form of that populism from the economic realm to the "culture wars", has been critical for Republican dominance of Middle America. (See, for instance, Thomas Frank's What's the Matter with Kansas.)

Still other critics believe the DLC has essentially become an influential corporate and right-wing implant in the Democratic party. Marshall Wittmann, a former senior fellow at the DLC, former legislative director for the Christian Coalition, and former communications director for Republican senator John McCain, and Will Marshall, a vocal supporter of the war in Iraq, are among those associated with the DLC who have right-wing credentials.

Finally, detractors of the DLC note that the DLC has received funding from the right-wing Bradley Foundation as well as from oil companies, military contractors, and various Fortune 500 companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

if Barack put on a flag pin they'd be complaining about that too.  ;)

"It's a revolution. We're going to have to offend SOMEONE!"

1776

-------------
My daughter loves 1776. She quotes from it all the time. LOL

Bye folks.

New Thread!

* rdorgan
Thu, 04/17/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I fly a NEW York Giants Super Bowl 42 Champions flag from my porch alot.............

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/24970#comments

new one

jao - I think both Hillary and Bill have done some great things for the country and I don't knock Bill going around and speaking - he's well-respected in much of the world and that's one reason, I think, why Bush's actions haven't created even more enemies than they have.  (I have to say, tho, that I have a lot less respect for him now).  I agree with many of the things that certain DLC members stand for, but their core values are win-at-any-cost (even when 'winning' means losing, sometimes) - just look at 2004 and 2006 for proof of that.  unltimately, everything about Howard Dean, everything about the grassroots, everything about US is a threat to the DLC - because if we can elect a President of OUR choosing rather than theirs (there's a reason they attacked Howard every day and continue to do so!  there's a reason they were willing to stand by and watch Kerry be swift-boated), their days of power are limited and fading fast.  they don't care what happens to America in the meantime - it's all about the power and the $$$$$$$.

--

Mike - didn't you used to have the 'world's largest Dean poster' on your porch?