Howard was the first real small d Democrat I've seen in a long time.  Nice to see a presidential candidate modeling after him.

By all means, show solidarity with Tibet by protesting.

thanks for the thread, Paul - I enjoy the thought of IL republicans trembling with political fear!

Nice to see a presidential candidate modeling after him.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

rd,

if youre alluding to BO.................like Howard, his mouth is getting him into trouble..................he may mean well, but the results will end up disastrous...............history proves it................

Bob Herbert's perspective on Barack's bitter comment. It's actually about race.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/opinio...

I really enjoy Bob Herbert - I just wish he'd show up on traditional media shows more often.

This is really heartbreaking. Michelle Obama's first roommate at Princeton wanted a segregated dorm room. Pls read the story.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4...

10:06 AM EDT

a comment from another Mike:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/MichiganMike/gGBp5Y

By Michael in MI - Outraged Hardboiled Citizen-Historian Stunned To Feel Giddy with Hope - Apr 13th, 2008 at 11:48 am ED

This Test Is Not Barack's To Fail

Truth be told I saw this "bitterness" flap coming a mile away.  Not the exact words, of course, but something like it.  It's how politics works nowadays. 

...

Another test of whether Barack Obama's message of TRUTH, HONESTY, and INTEGRITY can or will prevail in the modern American political system.  The jury is still out.

...

So this "bitterness" bullshit is a test.  Can the American people see through all the twisting and spinning and crap?  Can they actually discern the TRUTH?  Do they have that capacity?  I guess we'll see. 

...

Whether he survives these assaults will not be a test of Barack Obama.  It will be a test of the basic political competency of the American people.

This is a brilliant ad by Team Obama. It's all about lobbyists and how lobbyists can adversely affect our lives -- links Clinton to being in the tank with them. It's good.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/g...

I often wondered when Barack says *lobbyists and special interests* if the average Joe even understood what that means. Now they will.

s/b understand what that means. Mixing up tenses. Jeez - more coffee!!!!!

New Rasmussen polls both nationally (Barack way up) and PA (down a tad).

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4...

Although I believe strongly that Democratic Party candidates generally are miles ahead of Republicans in terms of Progressive policy, I oppose the concept of voters pulling one level to vote an entire slate for ANY party.

 ******************************************

Mike - don't worry about Obama's mouth - his heart and his conscience will always make up for any remarks he makes which are misinterpreted - and Rethuglicans and Rethug-clintonians will do their best to twist his words at every chance.

Tune in tonight and please recommend.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/24925...

David A. Stevenson
Tue, 04/15/08
___________________________________________________________________________

Hi david and thanks.Its 10.15..........we both know, today these candidates are in virtual mine fields...........I feel sorry for them to a point......every word must be watched carefully, regardles of the intentions, plus today with cell phones, filming devices, recorders etc........look out, right?

Again, its not the candidate that worries me..............the random element is of course the voter.....how will voters in key electoral states react after 8 years of Bush.....im not so sure anymore which is why i have predicted Mccain to take the prize in November....................

Hope im wrong and as always, its good to be here amongst friends.........cheers

What a great move...........comes at a well timed too......people dont want their vacations inconvenienced..........great coaching.............I tell ya...............

PITTSBURGH - John McCain called Tuesday for the federal government to free people from paying gasoline taxes this summer and ensure that college students can secure loans this fall, proposals aimed at stemming the public's pain now from the troubled economy.

Classic Reagan move............amazing.......people will grab this and run............

10:22 AM EDT

Ferris Bueller's (every)Day Off ?- Michigan Mike puns those who are truth-seeking-challenged:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/MichiganMike/gGBJ2f

By Michael in MI - Outraged Hardboiled Citizen-Historian Stunned To Feel Giddy with Hope - Apr 14th, 2008 at 9:09 pm EDT

The Truth Sucks.

You people keep talking about the Truth.  Well let me tell you something:  I'm sick and tired of the Truth.  The Truth is Ugly & Depressing & Troubling & Sad.  The Truth bums me out & pisses me off.  The Truth reminds me of how bad things are.  And I don't want to feel bad.  Who does? 

So I watch TV.  Rent movies.  Go to the bar & drink with my buddies.  Engage in mindless chit-chat.  Talk about sports.  Football.  Funny commercials.  Beer commercials especially.  Did you see the one with the talking frog?  Hilarious!! 

Fact is I work hard to avoid the Truth.  Don't read.  Don't look at the newspapers.  Don't watch the TV news.  Try not to think.  Don't listen when politicians start squawking about what they call the "Truth."  You'd have to be an idiot not to know they're all a pack of lying dogs.  Who can believe a word they say?

So I close my ears.  Walk away.  Change the channel.  Grab a beer.   Drive to the liquor store.  Roar around on my speedboat.  Blast off on my snowmobile.  Go fishing.  Head to the firing range.  Listen to my iPod.   Play with the kids.  Tumble in the sack.  Go to the AOL chat rooms.  Futz around in the workshop.  Change my oil.  Rent another movie.  Watch reruns of Gilligan's Island.  Sleep. 

The Truth Hurts.  It is Painful.  Ugly.  Troublesome.  Depressing.  Think I want to hear about the sub-prime mortgage mess?  How we're losing in Iraq?  Climate change?  I need to think about "climate change" like I need a hole in the head.

I get enough trouble from my bosses every day, thank you very much.  At two different jobs.  More like two and a half.   The wife too.  A constant struggle to pay the rent & put food on the table.  Heating bill almost doubled last year.  Gas costs a fortune.  Troubles?  I got plenty.  And now you want me to think about the Truth?  What do you think I'm a masochist or something? 

I'm done talking now.  My head hurts from thinking about it.  The Truth Sucks.  Pass the remote, I'm watching the talking frog again.

Back 'atcha, Mike.

A very wise psychiatrist friend of mine always reminds me to control things in life that I can control . . . . . . and the rest - well, fork 'em !

That psychiatrist friend of mine is actually my yoga instructor - om.

Classic Reagan move............amazing.......people will grab this and run............

****************************************************

It actually reminds me about how Reagan slept 20 hours per day and consulted an astrologer - lol.

( btw - no offense meant to astrologers ).

Another thought on Tibet/China.. a country shouldn't be allowed to cover up their atrocities under the *sport* umbrella.

seashell, thanks SO MUCH for the Frank Schaeffer article on the previous thread!!!

You have made my day, and here's why.

When I last encountered Frank (known then as Franky and his father as Francis), it was in the late 60s, and I was in college. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian home that was not at all like what you would imagine.

I was raised to vote every year but not to be any kind of political activist, because church needed to remain far separated from state for the good of the church. But I was also raised that intellectual questioning was the enemy of faith.

And then I went to one of the "Evangelical Ivies" for college and learned that intellectual questioning was essential to faith. And among the pantheon of national figures delivering this message was Francis Schaeffer, Frank(y)'s dad.

So you can imagine the depression I sunk into as I watched them, over the years, get co-opted by the megachurch power brokers, and saw my college, which had been a bastion of anti-war foment in the Vietnam era, fall into lockstep with Bush and the neocons.

I still keep in touch with some friends from the old days and have watched them grow disillusioned with the neocon agenda. And now Frank Schaeffer, sans "y", tells us they are considering Obama.

This is great stuff!!

And now I have to go send Frank an e-mail!!

-- volney

I feel badly for all the athletes. They've been training for years to compete. It would truly be a shame if athletes couldn't have their *day* in China.

Thanks for sharing your story about Frank Schaeffer, volney.

36.

Imn2Paine
Tue, 04/15/08

...
If you accept (as I certainly do) that economic and non-economic voter concerns are generally legitimate, then there's more than one way to express elitist, condescending attitudes.
One way is to dismiss non-economic concerns.

But the other way is to dismiss economic concerns. And that's what many conservative pundits and politicians do every single day, by:

http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/
--------------------------

What Obama’s “bitterness” episode is saying in essence is that he thinks people initially have ONLY ONE KIND of real concerns and these ARE ECONOMICAL ONES! All other kinds of concerns are just DERIVED from these PRIMARY ones.

The question Obama leaves open is HOW and WHY it happens that DERIVED issues have been SEEN by many people as the PRIMARY ONES?

The revelation of hidden behind lies and confusions truth one may call the “elitist” approach, another may call it the “true leadership”.

oops:

HOW and WHY = WITH WHOSE HELP

I feel badly for all the athletes. They've been training for years to compete. It would truly be a shame if athletes couldn't have their *day* in China. 

mary~ I feel they should be allowed to do both if they choose, compete and protest.

On another subject, it was either Newshour or Charlie Gibson yesterday they showed a clip of Barack saying the same thing about people and guns on a 2004 Charlie Rose episode. If I had time, I would try to find the Charlie Rose thing on YouTube, but gotta fly out the door now.

the results will end up disastrous...............history proves it................

Whatever you say, Cassandra. 

Irony of ironies, one of the first things NH Democrats did when they got the majority in the legislature was to get rid of the straight party ticket.  They weren't being entirely altruistic because it turns out that many ballots get spoiled when voters want to emphasize or modify their original choice and check other boxes or even write names in.

Sitka
Tue, 04/15/08
___________________________________________________________________________

Do you dispute the cause of Deans demise.......this aint rocket science fella.a blind man can see it coming with a cain................lets deal in reality people, not fantasy..............

It actually reminds me about how Reagan slept 20 hours per day and consulted an astrologer - lol.

___________________________________________________________________________

i know David..quite right...and he was voted in twice!  The second time by the LARGEST margin in history............some here most likley voted for him..................

lets deal in reality people, not fantasy..............

It's foolish to think the future is determined by the past.

Obama's call for service resonates in PA. This is a neat human interest story.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4...

Knitters unite for Obama!

Morning,

I've occasionally had the chance to skim the threads.  Good topics and good discussion.  

 Volney, I grew up Catholic, went to twelve years of Catholic School.  While the authoritarianism and social injustice eventually led to my renouncing it,  I can thank nuns as my teachers for teaching me critical thinking, for holding high expectations of women, and for a solid background in ethics.  That's that famous Catholic guilt.  But, one nun saved my life by believing in me, supporting me in my aspirations: my best friend and I had a study hall with her all to ourselves, and we dealt with philosophy and ethics almost daily.  For this nun,  religion and state were absolutely separate.  There was a tradition then, at least in my school with the Notre Dame nuns, of critical thinking.  Moreover, this wonderful person I so much revered and loved told me that she didn't believe all that the church taught.

As a public school teacher, and you'd be amazed at how many former religious and private school students became public school teachers, I feel that there is a real gap in values.  We are more than just gatherers of knowledge, potential earners, and consumers.  Somehow, separation of church and state translated for some into no values.  Children need values. They need to know that their thoughts, words, and deeds  have consequences.  They need to be responsible, to be honest, to be kind, to be generous, to stand up for justice.  When the commercial aspect of our society is the only value structure they see, there will be many many problems and dysfunction. 

Teaching in American  Samoa on a return trip at a Catholic girls school as a volunteer, students had the responsibility each week to declare a theme and the process how they would reach a goal, for instance collecting books for a small village in Africa or Asia.  I saw the dignity and pride that came with those values and mourned the loss of those values in many of our public schools.  If money is the only value, that is all we will ever have, and it is not enough.

Once last thought. In first grade Sister Melvin taught a class of over 50 students, both first and second grade.  She asked this question: What if you found out you were going to die in 24 hours, what would you do?  Our little 6 and 7 year old brains worked at that, say goodby, do the most fun thing we could, be with our parents and best friends.  She then said, do you know what St. Francis of Asisi said when he was asked that question?  No, we didn't know, but St. Francis was a pretty important saint.  He said that he would keep on doing exactly what he was doing.  She interpreted this to mean that every action we are doing should be done as well as our last action and that we really had no control over what our life span would be.

This for 6 and 7 years olds, and I've never forgotten it.  Can you imagine a public school teacher doing something like this? 

Wow, dangling modifier.  I did it, and I'm an English teacher. No, the students hadn't returned to volunteer to teach.  egad.

 Teaching in American  Samoa on a return trip at a Catholic girls school as a volunteer, students had the responsibility each week to declare a theme and the process how they would reach a goal, for instance collecting books for a small village in Africa or Asia.

Dana Milbank is a shill. Read this tripe on how McCain received a standing o. and Barack was likened a terrorist. Milbank calls Barack's *bitter* comments a gaffe.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Ever since Samantha Power (Milbank's friend from Harvard) left Barack's campaign - Dana has been on the warpath on Keith's show.

It's foolish to think the future is determined by the past.

___________________________________________________________________________

Yes, and only fools dont learn from the past.........I think its called History if Im not mistaken......

lets deal in reality people, not fantasy..............

It's foolish to think the future is determined by the past.

**********************************************

I knew you authored fortune cookie inserts ! I just knew it !

100 PA Mayors to endorse Hillary today.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm...

Hillary has the entire party machine behind her in PA - therefore, she should win by 20 - anything less is a failure IMO. I think she'll win but it will be closer to OH.

Yes, and only fools dont learn from the past.........I think its called History if Im not mistaken......

Some people do learn from the past. And that's how they make the future different.

You obviously don't and are doomed to repeat it, at least in your own mind.

New thread.

Here's the latest PA polls

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/15/...