Dean is first!

Joe Trippi has the dubious distention of having lost every race that he has advised in the last several years. Who in their right mind would ever ask for his advise on how to win at anything?


FLUSH... that is the sound of good money being wasted on bad advisors.

6:22 PM EDT 

Hillary indeed has experience -- as the chief executive of her own campaign -- and thus, that calls into question how she would manage as the chief executive of the Executive branch and of the U.S. itself ?:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2008/04/what_went_wrong_with_the_clint.html

« A Bad Choice for Veep | HorseRaceBlog Home Page

April 10, 2008

With the demotion of Mark Penn, it is appropriate to take stock of the Clinton campaign.

There is no doubt that it has been a poorly run campaign. But what has been so bad about it?

...

Obama didn't develop a new way to organize. He just chose to organize while the Clinton campaign chose not to.

The only reason it would choose not to organize is if it did not think it was worth the cost. More than 400 pledged delegates have been allocated through caucuses. So, it wasn't worth it because it was insignificant. Then why didn't her campaign organize? I believe it is because it never thought Obama would mount this kind of challenge. It never thought it would have to scrap for every spare delegate. Instead, it thought the race would be over before Super Tuesday.

In other words, the Clinton campaign did not see Obama coming. It underestimated him.

...

What we are talking about here is plain old arrogance. I think this is the central mistake of the Clinton campaign. It presumed that the nomination was Clinton's. Not Clinton's to lose. Just Clinton's. Period. As a consequence, it behaved in an unduly confident manner. Mark Penn is to be blamed, for sure. So is Patti Solis Doyle. But so also is the entire upper-echelon of the campaign. Above all, it's Hillary's fault. She's the candidate. She sets the tone.

6:23 PM EDT

I sincerely apologize for my state.   There is now a lawsuit accusing the DNC of being prejudiced against white people in Florida.

...

+++

floridagal -

I feel for you.  After what Florida did to Gore in 2000, I've lost all respect for the politics of that state and am not surprised about what comes out of there at election time.

You must feel like sometimes you're on the set of Star Trek, playing Capt Kirk, where you blurt out: "Ok, beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life here" ?

1.

seashell :-)
Thu, 04/10/08

The "pruning/purging" of pledged delegates is a DNC rule. This DNC rule gives an illusionary appearance of fairness but in reality it is based in fear and deception. That is very cold blooded. The rule was created by the DNC insiders to keep new people out of the DNC. This old attitude is what caused the Democratic Party to lose their majority and become stagnated. It's ignorant and part of the politics of the past. Fear is not a virtue.

Jo:

Jo, can we discuss why Linda NM and I get jumped on for what we say and post while Michael and Huron could post almost the same things, but never get jumped on?  The jumpers are women, jumping  on  other women.   This would be a good psychological study as well as enlightening topic.  Why aren't these women confronting the men who have posted things not entirely favorable to the dems or to BO?  I've posted BO quotes that I thought were questionable and been jumped on; and what I wanted was a good conversation.

***********************************

Anyway, what would you like to discuss?  :-)

************************

Phil, while it's true I may be "confused" and certainly not very knowledgable about politics,  I'm not confused about who to vote for.  I'll be voting for the dem that wins the nomination.  I'll not be voting in the primaries and I have a number of Indy friends who also won't be voting...since we can't  and don't choose to register.

If we can't have Gore or Dean, then I support a BO/HC or HC/BO ticket.  I think we need both to win, altho perhaps Boxer as VP could also be a winner.

I talked with s/o today who said "I really like Howard Dean."   Too bad even  many bloggers here won't get behind him as  VP, along with BO should BO  win. 

Contribute to Roy Carter for Congress TODAY!https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/en...

Thank you, Susan.   So what does this say about caucuses?  Åren't they insider oriented?  And what about other big states?  This reminds me of the purged voter lists in FL ,altho that had to do with the gen'l and  purging AA's and people who had served time.

Susan, this is a fantastic candidate down here in Miami, perhaps donate to him first!

So if the DNC is also corrupt, why are we donating to it?  I'd rather send money to Howard to start a new party.  When did this DNC rule come into being?  During McGovern?   Can't Howard use his moxie to change it?  Or am I being naive?

THE WAR GOES ON, WITH DEMOCRATIC COMPLICITY

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_kevin_go_080410_wexler_3a_a_lone_hero_.htm

The Congress' hearings with Petraeus/Crocker were yet another example to add to the potpourri of instances where Congress has outright failed America and its people.

The questions asked by Republicans were virtually all along the lines of being able to continue the "mission" or occupation of Iraq with full support and what America needed to do or think in order to support the operations 

If they were from Democrats, it was even worse. The Democrats, seeking to continue their insidious electoral plan to come off as a purely anti-war party despite their acceptance of campaign contributions from defense contractors, their support of military contractors over in the Middle East, and their refusal to filibuster and stop funding of the Iraq war, asked questions that outright betrayed all the knowledge that Americans have of this war. 

Transcripts of the event show that the Democrats were pushing Iraq as a "mistake." They were blaming the Iraqis for the situation that America is in because apparently when a country violates the sovereignty of another nation, kills millions of Iraqis, obliterates records its culture and history, and destroys that nation's infrastructure, it is that country's fault for all the problems the violator is incurring as a result of the policies the violator carried out. 

It's like taking candy from a baby and then yelling at the baby, "Why is your candy all gone?" 

Sadly, the line that Iraq was a "mistake" and the Iraqis are making it difficult for us to withdraw is how they plan to come off as anti-war this election season. They have no plans to become any stronger in their opposition to the war.  

Thanks, Susan.  That's hilarious. (can I say that?  It's an opinion) :-)

Off to paint. 

If we can't have Gore or Dean, then I support a BO/HC or HC/BO ticket.  I think we need both to win, altho perhaps Boxer as VP could also be a winner.

==========================

Obama will never choose Hillary Clinton as a running mate for two reason:

(1) She (and/or her supporters) have waged a dirty negative campaign against him

(2) If Bill had his wife in the White House, he would be a pain in the butt for the Obama people.

6.
seashell :-)

=========

Boxer would be good, but more likely someone, male or female that would help him with the poor, undereducated whites with latent racial bias.

13.

Franco Caliz-Aguilar

How much is the candidate paying for Trippi's advice?


Watch the kitty.

Jo:

Jo, can we discuss why Linda NM and I get jumped on for what we say and post while Michael and Huron could post almost the same things, but never get jumped on?  The jumpers are women, jumping  on  other women.

=================

Maybe that's why you like Clinton.  She's a whiner too.  She has played both the race card and the gender card, and Obama has used neither used neither race nor gender to go negative.

She gets away with it in the MSM.  Do you think they would let Obama get away with playing either the race or gender card????

I've been jumping on John for months. 

John McCain faces a serious challenge in this election year -- a struggling economy, a war the public is eager to see ended, a deeply unpopular president, and perhaps most importantly, the natural swing of the pendulum after eight years of Republican rule (only once since the 1940s has a party won three consecutive presidential elections). Nonetheless, conservatives continue to assure themselves that in the end, they reside where the country sits ideologically.

McCain, avers George Will, is "a center-right candidate seeking to lead a center-right country." Tom Cole, the head of the National Republican Congressional Committee, agrees: "I believe that it is still a center-right country, and I think this election will show that," he told the New York Times Magazine. "America is a center-right country and in modern times has not elected a thoroughgoing liberal as president," pleaded former Bush adviser Peter Wehner last week in the Wall Street Journal.

You can hear the hint of desperation in their voices. What they probably suspect, and what progressives are hoping, is that the conservative era that arrived with Ronald Reagan in 1980 is finally reaching its end, dragged into its grave by George W. Bush. The moment for a resurgence of activist government may have finally arrived.

But in order to make it happen, Democrats will have to overcome a deep skepticism among the public, not about the relative abilities of the opposition party but about government itself. As the most recent Gallup poll on the subject shows, the public's faith in government is as low as it has been at any point since they started asking the question thirty-five years ago.

Given the combination of dishonesty, corruption and incompetence that has marked the current administration, it's hard to blame the American people for their distrust. Republicans argue that government can't do anything right, then set about to prove it once they grab government's reins. Each successive Republican administration only provides more evidence for their contention that government is a bumbling beast incapable of solving problems. Few notice that they never deliver on their promises to reduce its size and scope; as a portion of GDP, the postwar federal government was at its biggest during the years of that famed enemy of big government, Ronald Reagan.

 ^American Prospect^

Randi Rhodes Moving To Nova M Radio

http://novamradio.com/

"I don't think so.  Barack is not a fool and he knows these deficits have to come down or we'll have a depression to rival the one in the 30s.

I would bet he is short on specifics of the "middle class tax cut"  - it is probably targeted cuts for those in need,  health care, education, etc. and nothing to do with addition broad based cuts further than what we have."

Okay, Fred.

He is no fool.
Short on specifics is a political tool used by many politicos.  The participants in BFA are, by and large, exceptional citizens for whom specifics are important.

I do recall that Obama threw out something about breaks for payroll rax payers.  I agree that would be a progressive move.   But he is going to need to tax his elitist base and the Republicans he claims to court in order to pay for it.

The 30's depression era and deficits is probably not a good analogy, Hoover campaigned against deficit spending and even sought assurances from FDR to hold the line on them.
So dealing with a depression/recession is another matter.

My immediate concern is the structure of the Federal budget and where the revenue
comes from.  Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles stated that "We", the Clinton administration, "have fixed the structural deficit."  And I think that they had.  Bush/Cheney, GOP Congress, and some DINOs tore it up again.  

Fred,

Obama will never choose Hillary Clinton as a running mate for two reason:

I think Obama wants to defeat the repugs and loves this country.  He'll choose HC, IMO, if polls are showing that that's the ticket to win.  When it comes to winning the gen'l, people kiss and make up.  This is politics.

Latest Gallup poll shows McC/Condi beating both dems, by a small margin.  Without Condi on the ticket, the dems do better but not much.

Russert just nailed it.  When talking about how the country is behind the dems except on the war issue, even tho the majority of us are against the war ,  he said.  "Americans like to win."  I would amend that to:  "Americans HAVE to win."  That's the arrogance that is bringing the country down IMO.  We have to win and we have to be right!

**********************************

Don't confuse whining with stating facts and don't assume I'm a HC fan.  I'm not and have said many times I'd to start over.

So much for painting right now.  Matthews show is interesting today.

The Clintons just can't help themselves. I think lying is effortless with them. Bill now talking about Bosnia with ABC News. Note to Bubba: she didn't repeat her tall tale just once when she was sleep deprived. She repeated it several times over several months.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4...

"Maybe that's why you like Clinton.  She's a whiner too.  She has played both the race card and the gender card, and Obama has used neither used neither race nor gender to go negative."

I just asking a question here.

I know that Obama supporters hyped up Senator Clinton's crediting LBJ for signing the 60's era civil rights and voting rights laws as "dissing MLK."  I heard and watched them do it in advocating for Obama in the run up to South Carolina primary.

Now, if Obama and/or his campaign played that line as well, doesn't that take the guilding off the lilly and the holier than thou mantra that " Obama has used neither used neither race nor gender to go negative?"

  

 The rule was created by the DNC insiders to keep new people out of the DNC.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

This has nothing to do with the DNC whose membership is not "allocated".

Clionton has the backing of the pro corporatist DLC and business as usual with K Street. and she made a War Party vote authorizing war with Iran when she voted Kyl-Lieberman.

stick to the heart of the campaign differences which is who pays the band when you dance with the one that brung ya

FEC gives the answers

Michael and Huron could post almost the same things, but never get jumped on? 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

sea,

The women here can jump on me anytime they want!  What a fantasy! Cheers....................

Phil,

It is a DNC rule. The candidates can exercise their right to use it in any state. In California it can only be use before district delegate elections not after. I don't know about the other states.

be use s/b be used

It is not about protecting DNC insiders Susan it is about the right of candidates to be sure their allocation of pledged delegates won in the primary are known well enough to the campaign as to guarantee loyalty to cast the vote for their delegate.

The DNC runs the party between conventions but gavel to gavel the delegates are the supreme body and no one is "bound", and a DNC member just has one vote the same as everyone else there.

They aren't actually "DNC Rules" anyway; they are state rules that vary by state that have the approval of the Presidential Candidates, individual State Central Committees, and the National Rules Committee who are co-signers, and taking a role in that process is what makes you a "candidate" for the blank opposite the name Democratic Party, the DNC does give final approval, but candidates that spend a hundred million dollars want assurance that their effort will be protected by a framework that won't allow insiders to steal the results

the opposite of what you are inferring

Cheney, others OK'd harsh interrogations
By LARA JAKES JORDAN and PAMELA HESS, Associated Press Writer
34 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Bush administration officials from Vice President Dick Cheney on down signed off on using harsh interrogation techniques against suspected terrorists after asking the Justice Department to endorse their legality, The Associated Press has learned.

The officials also took care to insulate President Bush from a series of meetings where CIA interrogation methods, including waterboarding, which simulates drowning, were discussed and ultimately approved.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080410/ap_o...

The officials also took care to insulate President Bush from a series of meetings where CIA interrogation methods, including waterboarding, which simulates drowning, were discussed and ultimately approved

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

got to have someone left to issue the pardons

People paying taxes is a good thing.  It means they have a stake in their government.  What would you prefer?  Fee for services means only the wealthy have access to the economies of scale that a government agency achieves.  Think how inconvenient if each of us had to hire a body guard or a 24/7 doorman.  The other alternative is what they're trying to shove down the throat of the Iraqis--a government that's funded by selling off the natural resources of the nation--you know, like logging rights in the national forests, drilling for natural gas in the national parks, pumping oil in Anwar, carrying away the mountains in West Virginia.  What happens when the natural resources are depleted?  Well, we can start selling off the infra-structure like highways and bridges and docking facilities, etc.  All of those sales mean that the capital accumulated by the public is transfered into private pockets for pennies on the dollar.  So, the general welfare is depleted.  Why should we consider that a good thing?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the process varies by state and is not a "national rule" although all of the candidates agree to some form of it in all of the states after negotiations from each state to fit their particular conditions

"How you become a delegate to the Convention depends on which state you live in. Each state will have their own Delegate Selection Plan that will describe how delegates are chosen in that state. These Plans must comply with rules adopted by the National Party that provide guidelines to ensure a fair and open process. In the summer of 2007, state parties will publish their delegate selection rules and clearly explain how to participate."

http://www.democrats.org/a/convention_2008/delegate/

Californians wrote the rules for California that are indeed similar because the outcome must be "fair" but if the particulars aren't to your liking take it up with your State Central Committee, don't blame the DNC

The DNC issues "guidelines." the National Rules Committee enforces the rules that the states have negotiated, variance from that goes to the National Credentials Committee

hi - quick drop in to leave a link to this little game - do you know your geography?  ;)

http://www.lufthansa-usa.com/useugame2007/html/play.html

I know that Obama supporters hyped up Senator Clinton's crediting LBJ for signing the 60's era civil rights and voting rights laws as "dissing MLK." 

=========================

Well, as I recall, Clinton's implication was that

 "you people can rant and rave all you want, but it takes a liberal white president in charge to make things happen." [not a quote]

I'm not so sure that anyone pointing that out is playing the race card, and I don't remember if it was a charge by the Obama campaign.  Of course, once the buzz started with the media, it took on a life of its own.

Can you name specific names, and quote something from Obama's camp that instigated that brouhaha?

Clionton has the backing of the pro corporatist DLC and business as usual with K Street. and she made a War Party vote authorizing war with Iran when she voted Kyl-Lieberman

==================

That was it, Phil - the nail on the head.

Kyl-Lieberman turned the page on Clinton for me - there was no way I was going to support her after that vote - I would have still voted for her in the GE - while holding my nose.

When the principals discussed specific physical assaults against specific individuals they went from the administrative mode to a criminal conspiracy.  Unless those assaults were authorized by legislation, like the military commissions, they were unlawful and, if prohibited under international law, criminal.  Under our laws, public officials may put humans to death, following specific procedures.  Physical assaults to extract information is not permitted.  Indeed, the Constitution guarantees a right not to speak.  So, physical assaults intended to extract information are a double violation.

Consider, for comparison, a permitted physical assault--an incision to extract a fetus.  But, the permission is predicated on a regimen of training and procedure designed to minimize the injury.  When these conditions aren't followed, then it's just a simple physical assault or even attempted murder, regardless of the actual effect on the victim.  A physical assault isn't necessarily a crime, but to make it not a crime there have to be special efforts to minimize the injury and maximize the benefit.  The assaults on the detainees had no benefits for them at all.

It's really hard to even consider that behavior in a legal context.  There's no excuse for assault, except as immediate self-defense.

The argument that a crime was prevented by taking someone into custody doesn't hold up for the simple reason that you can't prove something that didn't happen.

There's just so much illogic.  In the discussion of the Colombia Free Trade pact, the spokesman didn't even hesitate to assert that purpose of the pact with Colombia was to affect Venezuela. 

Randi is on LKL tonight.

And this is why I cut Pelosi some slack on taking impeachment "off the table."

1. The Gringrich-Armey-Delay-Hyde House Republicans really gave impeachment a bad name and may have ruined  it for their replacements.

I've been sort of kooky all day, posted this on an old thread. 

Heard on the radio that here in AK Obama trails McCain by only 5 points.  Obama is well liked here.  I believe he can win AK.

Sorry don't mean to leave Clinton out, but they didn't mention her polling numbers.

Don't Be Fooled: Obama Is Actually Leading Hillary By 1-2 Million Votes

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shawn-christensen/dont-be-fooled-obama-is-a_b_96118.html

Jo, can we discuss why Linda NM and I get jumped on for what we say and post while Michael and Huron could post almost the same things, but never get jumped on?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope.  John and Michael comment and leave.  You and Linda (when she's in the mood) harangue.  Mike, uses one source, a  class he took thirty years ago.  What's the point of arguing?  John is clearly lefter, uses left sources, and does get argued with a good bit.  But he doesn't call the rest of us down for being stupid, so it stays on a, ermmm, *loftier* level, lol!  You and Linda are both "flooders" and your sources are questionable, to say the least.

Finally, neither Mike OR John  are in the bidness of defending Hillary on what is known to be a long time anti-Hillary blog.  

Latest Gallup poll shows McC/Condi beating both dems

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And may for a long time.  How's it gonna be when Obama and/or the MSM starts to point out that Condi chaired the torture meetings?  Think that'll wash with the American public (when they finally pay attention?)?   Condi discussing whether or not it's okay to crush a prisoner's testicles?  

Please, Lord, let McCain ask her to be his Veep, lol!  

rae - thanks for posting the caucus estimated vote counts. But since I live in a caucus, latte' sippin', birkenstock wearing (they're on my feet now), boutique state - my vote didn't count. Better tell my husband and daughter since they're returning to the caucus this Saturday to try to get to the state convention. LOL

new thread...

Blood clots can have very serious consequences

Recently the FDA disclosed that the excessive levels of estrogen delivered by the birth control patch Ortho Evra can cause serious injuries and even death to the women who use it. Johnson and Johnson is the parent company of the manufacturer of the Ortho Evra patch.

Especially worrisome is the finding that most of about a dozen users who died of clot-related complications in 2004 were young — in their late teens and early 20s.

http://www.webnichemarketers.com/ortho/?AFID=13375&SID=olsdOrtho10X31LLN20080314

Thanks mainefem

I put it in my favorites

April 4, 2008 - Lawsuit Filed Against Ortho Evra Maker

WASHINGTON -- Another lawsuit has been filed against the maker of the
birth control patch Ortho Evra.

The lawsuit claims 43 women developed blood clots and other health
problems since taking the prescription contraceptive.
The suit also claims a Maryland woman died from blood clots after
wearing the patch.

http://www.webnichemarketers.com/ortho/facts.aspx