Dean is first by consensus.

Excellent, rich, just excellent.

As Denise saids, exellent.

rich^kolker
Promoted Thursday, 03/13/08 @ 12:00 pm. Published Thursday, 03/13/08 @ 8:56 am

In the longer run, it's not about Obama and Clinton, it's about how we want to do politics in this country.
...
Who loses? The people. The nation. Anyone who thinks governing the "last, best hope" is about more than a game with winners and losers.
Some may call that attitude naive. I call it patriotic. More than that, I call it necessary.
--------------------

I would call it naively patriotic..., sorry, Rich and no hard feelings.

I’ll try to explain:
It is naive, imo, continue thinking in wisdom and judgment of governing by “professional leaders” DESPITE decades long, past (negative primarily!!!) experiences American People had with those leaders’ wisdom and judgment (the Spitzer’s the latest).

The meaning of word “leader” is just been lost behind the word “professional” (the ones who are sitting in Congress/Senate from generation to generation, the almost very same hundreds (plus don’t forget several judges...who successfully failed as well) and who both supposed to “balance” the power of another “professional decider”, the President...lol).

As life shows all those 3 “independent” branches multiple times proven to fail and now decomposed to its basics which either Obama or Clinton can’t save.

Governing by representation, imo is dead.

Negative campaigning has not had a history of success in Iowa. In 2004 Dick Gephardt and Howard Dean committed what some described as "murder-suicide" with their attacks on each other, opening the door for Kerry. In 1984 John Glenn's attacks on Walter Mondale helped to land Gary Hart a surprisingly strong second place showing, which helped lead to his upset of Mondale in New Hampshire. The person who could stand to gain the most this time from the negative attacks is John Edwards. His campaign, which hasn't been shy about attacking Clinton in recent months, has remained remarkably silent in recent days. "Edwards has been a pretty harsh critic of the Clinton campaign himself, so one could argue that when everybody goes negative no one gains from it," said Jamal Simmons, a Democratic strategist who is remaining neutral this cycle.

Clinton has insisted that her attacks against Obama are substantive, not personal. "There's a big difference between our courage and our convictions, what we believe and what we're willing to fight for," Clinton told reporters traveling this past weekend with her in Iowa aboard the first press plane of Clinton's campaign. That difference, she said, is "between someone who talks the talk, and somebody who's walked the walk."

Asked directly whether she intended to raise questions about Obama's character, she replied: "It's beginning to look a lot like that. You know, it really is." (When asked if former President Bill Clinton would also be stepping up the heat on Obama or Edwards, Clinton spokesman Mo Eilleithee would say only, "I think you'll see him out there talking about his knowledge of her, because no one knows her better.")

from Time Magazine, 12/11/2007

More from Time article:

Will Clinton's Obama Attacks Backfire?

"The attack will backfire in two ways: it will reinforce the negative stereotype of Mrs. Clinton as a cold and calculating person who will do whatever it takes to win," said Stephen J. Wayne, a government professor at Georgetown University and author of The Road to the White House. "And two, it will make Mr. Obama seem to be the less shrill and more emotionally mature candidate."

Clinton's harsh new rhetoric has not won much support, either from pundits or other Democrats. "I could see the desire to raise the salience of personal traits — because her strengths are experience and strength of character," said Stephen Ansolabehere, a political science professor at MIT and author of the book Going Negative. "But her choice surprised me — she might be emphasizing the wrong thing. Given how close this is in the polls, especially a month out, this might be a very risky strategy for her."

"This series of slurs doesn't serve HRC well," said Robert Reich, former Labor Secretary under Bill Clinton, in a blog post. "It will turn off voters in Iowa, as in the rest of the country. If she's worried her polls are dropping, this is not the way to build them back up."

Perhaps the biggest downside to Clinton's negative attacks is that the press seems to be focusing on nothing else, at least for the moment. "What's tough about the stories from this weekend is that they're telegraphing — they're more about going negative than the substance of the attacks," Simmons said. "It underlines the case that Edwards and Obama have been making that she's practicing politics as usual." And for Clinton, that kind of an association could be the costliest negative of all.

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816...

Here's Hillary's pledge which she has broken.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3...

The problem I've always had with "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is that it assumes that others want to be done to when they may well want to be left alone and it assumes that others like the same things.  False assumptions.

On the other hand, having a fixed standard of behavior for oneself--being self-directed--is preferable, in my book, to either being in a reactive mode (doing as one was done to) or acting in anticipation (what one expects another to do), which is what Republicans seem to subscribe to.  "Do to him before he does to you" is definitely bad.

Where we really go wrong, however, is when we do to others what was done to us. 

And then there is this problem with Florida's mail-in primary suggestion:

The proposal could prove problematic because Florida law bans the state from conducting elections by mail.

State party officials could outsource the election operations to a third party, but the company would need voters' signatures to verify the voter rolls. In Florida, it is illegal to sell voters' signatures.

Dean said Thursday he had not yet seen the proposal, but acknowledged that it isn't perfect.

"Of course there are going to be problems," he said, explaining that is why state party officials are floating a proposal -- to get the kinks out.

http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/printThis?clickMap=printThis&fb=Y&url=http%3A//edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/13/primary.proposal/%3Firef%3Dhpmostpop&title=Florida%20Dems%20devise%20do-over%20plan%20for%20primary%20-%20CNN.com&random=0.6104874458501333&partnerID=212106&expire=-1

Hillary just keeps mouthing her empty self-praises. She says she has 35 years without saying specifically what she did. So far, her shining example is HillaryCare, which was developed in a vacuum without stakeholder or congressional involvement.
Her management style is my way or the highway and I'll ridicule you for disagreeing with me. In the corporate world, a lot of managers are like that. What generally happens is they do a lot of damage to the projects they lead and their staff. They are replaced and go elsewhere.
Therefore, if Hillary gets the nod, we'll see lots of raging on and on about this project or another, ignoring dissent, and leading us further and further down the rat hole.
In this regard, she is no better then Bush.
That is one of the many reasons I cannot support her.

61.

Michael Ellis
Thu, 03/13/08

……
Race and racism..........hatred among certain peoples has, is and will always be around in some way shape or form...........among most if not all countries...........
-------------
Oh boy, looks like everything what’s going on around has nothing to do with reality?!

Almost every Demos primary election in arrow for the last several months is been shown clearly that American people in large, primarily overgrown and reject racism issue.

That are these very same “professional leaders” who trying to remind People and inject back again into their consciousness the idea on normalcy/regularity of this issue's continuality. Evidently it is in their (“leaders’” interests) not People’s.

Therefore the question now is: "Who is progressive, People or our professional representatives?"

11:43 AM EST

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-koehler/the-fear-fundamentalists_b_91324.html

Robert Koehler

Posted March 13, 2008 | 10:45 AM (EST)

It's 3 a.m. and your child is sleeping. A detainee groans at Guantanamo. On the campaign trail, the Clinton PR team is guzzling coffee, dreaming up new ways to milk votes out of fear.

Why, I wondered, is she going after these votes in the primary? Surely she doesn't imagine that the fear fundamentalists are part of her constituency: the ones who think a wall across our Southern border, and a macho preener in the White House, will make them safe. Then I thought, oh, maybe it's that Republican crossover thing. Rush Limbaugh loans the dittohead vote to Hillary so the GOP doesn't have to run against Obama in the fall, and she eases their journey across the party divide with a little shameless fear-mongering so they feel temporarily at home.

Would she be so cynical? I worry more that she's serious, and imagine a Clinton-McCain square-off in the fall, with the two of them zeroing in on those same fear fundamentalists, as though those are the only votes that matter. I imagine the headlines, the media glee, as both candidates strain to project comic-book macho bombast to the electorate and all pretense of an issue-based campaign disintegrates (and the Republican operatives cackle).

...

Thanks rd.  Truthfully I am getting discouraged.  I am a pollyanna, all this racial stuff has got to me.  But don't get me wrong I still support Obama 100%.

Michael, I know I am idealistic.  One of my many faults.

Gotta get to work.  I'm late.

bbl.

Here's Hillary's pledge which she has broken.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3...

Mary,

Thanks for digging that out, a very telling piece on KOS!

Phil, re. Spitzer and the SAR's:

What's your chance of being caught in an Eliot Spitzer-type financial dragnet? Better than you think.

In 2006, financial institutions and other businesses sent federal law enforcement officials more than 1 million "Suspicious Activities Reports" of the sort that linked the New York's governor's bank transactions to a prostitution ring.

Undoubtedly, many of those reports were signals of serious crimes, such as drugs trafficking. But tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of those reports involved legitimate transactions carried out by people who did nothing illegal, according to privacy advocates.

"This type of surveillance of the financial industry is much greater than most Americans realize," said Michael German, policy counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union. "And the explosion in the number of these reports makes the likelihood of innocent people being caught up much greater."

The law that tripped the governor up was the Bank Secrecy Act, a 1970 statute intended to spot movements of cash by money launderers and drug traffickers.

The act's most well-known provision requires financial institutions to report all cash deposits or withdrawals of more than $10,000 on a single day. Less familiar is the act's requirement that banks and other institutions secretly notify authorities of any cash transactions that could be evidence of a federal crime.

Banks, securities firms, check-cashing establishments and even casinos must file Suspicious Activities Reports with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, a unit of the Treasury Department, whenever questionable cash transactions take place.

"The requirement is very broad," said Timothy Bergan, an attorney with Holland & Knight in Chicago. The reports include confidential information such as bank account transactions and Social Security numbers.

The agency forwards the material to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which uses it in ongoing cases or applies state-of-the-art data-mining methods to identify patterns that merit further investigation.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...
(^more at the link^)

I was at a town hall meeting with Tim Kaine, our governor, last nite.

There were about 400 people there. Good crowd, good questions.

Many people I talked to are just disgusted with the prez race and say there is no way hillary can get the numbers to win.

Let's get on with it and get hillary to concede. Sad to note that the first woman to be a vice prez nominee just put the nail in hill's coffin.

Spitzer's $10K/night hooker looks like a real skank. I expected an elegant courtesan at those prices!

12:11 pm

John Kerry just kicked some arse on MSNBC.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3...

It's taken some time - but Kerry is fighting back on behalf of Barack. Hallelujah!

People are taking notice that Obama has coattails. My apologies if this has been posted already.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/eyei...

Morning Folks,

I'm hoping that Barack Obama will focus now on McCain and the Republican policies that have driven this country into an economic morass, that have sullied our standards of ethics, our interantional reputation, and weakened and degraded our military forces.  

Frankly, in a time of prosperity, peace, and stability, a Hillary Clinton migth be sufficient.  But, we are in a terrible situation, and it will take decades to undo the damage: corrupted departments, defiance of the rule of law, the unitary presidency with its defiance of Congress, laws they have passed, and the couuption of the Justice system.  An ordinary candidate can't undo that.

Here's what I wrote to a friend this morning:

Hi again,

Sorry for the smashed together post.  Only part of that was in a message to a friend, but it stuck like sticky dough.

Monica, I read somewhere that the original saying was "Don't do unto others that which you would not have them do unto you" which makes more sense to me.  It may have been in Thomas Cahill's books that I read that.   It seems much more concise and precise to me in the negative.

Dog Soldier, I agree with what you've written.  I enjoy your posts very much. As someone who grew up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, I wonder exactly where so much wild land still exists in the lower peninsula. But, your stories of feeding the deer, the birds, and the wildlife are appreciated.

Good post Rich, and Mary vb , Rae, Rdorgan, Joan, Tom, Linda b, former, Denise, former and cChalfonte and others, I always enjoy your posts. 

 Hill "apologizes"

Only after being *water-boarded*!!.

Senator John Kerry is stepping up to the mind-numbing idiocy of the MSM.

• Hope08's diary :: ::

On MSNBC just now he was talking to teleprompter reader du jour on MSNBC.  She's going on about the latest poll  where 41% of the polled say that Obama is ready to be commander in chief 29% said he is not.  What does this mean, the talking head ask?  (paraphrasing)  "This is a meaningless issue.  Barack Obama is ready to be commander-in-chief."  He goes on to express his disgust that a fellow Democrat (i.e. Hillary) would imply that he is not.  "I expect that from the republicans"

The key exchange came at the end of the conversation

Kerry:  I don't know how many time I have to say this but polls are meaningless at this stage of the game.  What is meaningfull is, is that Barack Obama has won more states, more delegates, and more of the popular vote.

Talking Head:  Well if we didn't have these polls we wouldn't have much to talk about around here.

Kerry:  Well you wouldn't have anything to talk about but perhaps the American people would have something to think about!

sorry about the utube non post. what is wrong with this blog//

Paglia Strikes Again

Hillary's race against time

By Camille Paglia

...The White House first responder should be a person of steady, consistent character and mood -- which describes Obama more than Hillary. And that scare ad was produced with amazing ineptitude. If it's 3 a.m., why is the male-seeming mother fully dressed as she comes in to check on her sleeping children? Is she a bar crawler or insomniac? An obsessive-compulsive housecleaner, like Joan Crawford in "Mommie Dearest"? And why is Hillary sitting at her desk in full drag and jewelry at that ungodly hour? A president should not be a monomaniac incapable of rest and perched on guard all night like Poe's baleful raven. People at the top need a relaxed perspective, which gives judgment and balance. Workaholism is an introspection-killing disease, the anxious disability of tunnel-vision middle managers....

Never has the soppy emotionalism of old-guard feminist reasoning been on such open and embarrassing display. How has Hillary, who rode her husband's coattails to the top and who trashed every woman he seduced or assaulted, become such a feminist heroine? What has she ever achieved on her own -- aside from the fiasco of healthcare reform?

And if the media is treating Hillary in a gendered way, hasn't she herself constantly and cynically dramatized her embattled womanhood? It began with her snappish defense of her hangdog husband during the Gennifer Flowers imbroglio of 1992. Blame tail-chasing Bill, from Little Rock on, for sexualizing the popular perception of the Clintons. Nubile, exploited Monica Lewinsky will always hover around Hillary like ghostly baggage. Bill's serial abuses betray a profound ambivalence about and deep-seated hostility to women -- something the Clintons' giddy feminist flacks just don't see. Why was Hillary flying around the world to those 80 countries anyhow -- building her résumé while leaving her randy hubby unleashed? Anyone who thinks Bill's exploits are going to stop after Hillary is president has, well, a screw loose. New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer's entrapment in a sex scandal is coming at a particularly inopportune moment for the Clintons...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/03/12/red_phone/index1.html

and click-on "enter salon"

We will be attending out Democratic Executive Committee meeting.

Last head count I saw there at a dinner last fall there are plenty of Clinton supporters. Unfortunately the committee is comprised of mostly seniors of which we are two of them. But I think most of them cannot look to the future as we do and are living in the last century -- particularly the 90's. They are pushing for a "redo" of something that never happened.

If I can get a few words in edgewise at tonight's meeting, I will be asking two questions:

Will this committee continue to always support fairness in this primary?

Will this committee strongly support the eventual nominee during the general election campaign?

That should light some fireworks from the bigmouths that exist in this group:))

Ugh busy day here just checking to see how my namesake is doing.

Will read the thread later - dang phone won't stop ringing. Hope everyone is having a good day.

That's a back handed apology, Karen. *sorry if anyone is offended* sort of apology. In other words a non-apology Bush-style.

25. Joan - How 'bout Why should this committee support rule breakers.

or does this committe believe that rules were made to be broken. LOL.

"Former Sen. Howard Metzenbaum, an Ohio Democrat who was a feisty self-made millionaire before he began a long career fighting big business in the Senate, died Wednesday night. He was 90."

The above announcement brought back a wonderful memory. It was the summer of 2003. The local Dean organization (all local volunteers, of course) had managed to get Dean to come to town for a fundraiser, we were all so excited, looking forward to hearing him speak. Then it was announced that Governor Dean would be holding a press conference down by the river (before the fundraiser) and he would be accompanied by Sen. Metzenbaum.

Of course we all turned out for the press conference. It was so exciting, standing there waiting for the Governor to appear, press people (and cameras) everywhere. Then the Gov came around the corner, with the Senator, accompanied by our cheers!

Senator Metzenbaum endorsed Howard Dean that day. It was pretty exciting to have someone 'in the inner circle' agree with us!

Thank you Sen. Metzenbaum, and Godspeed.

Lynn in Cincinnati

"a non-apology Bush-style"

mary~ Ya think!?!

Spitzer's $10K/night hooker looks like a real skank. I expected an elegant courtesan at those prices!

=============

nonetheless, we'll probably get our money's worth of laughs from SNL

Rich will appreciate this:

Tom Davis on the Republican Brand (+) by: James MartinThu Mar 13, 2008 at 1:10:18 PM EDT
[subscribe]
From the Washington Post:

"The House Republican brand is so bad right now that if it were a dog food, they'd take it off the shelf," said retiring Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (Va.), who chaired the NRCC for four years earlier

mary b

I may offer the following:

I would like to make a motion that this DEC pledge to continue to always support fairness to both candidates during this primary election and will support the eventual nominee during the general election campaign.

But I'll wait to see what the Clinton temperature is down there first. We were not there last month, perhaps the other Obama supporters will have hopefully come out of the woodwork to make some noise themselves.

Move-On.org offering the following to any talented people out there:

Today, we're launching an ad contest called "Obama in 30 Seconds." Anyone can make an ad about Obama between now and April 1. The public will vote on the best ads, and a panel of top artists, film professionals, and netroots heroes will pick a winner from among the finalists. (Judges include Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Naomi Wolf, Oliver Stone, John Legend, Donna Edwards, and Markos Moulitsas. The full list is below.)

Reply here:

http://www.obamain30seconds.org/?t=3&id=12305-29342-Yipscp

Haven't thought about ALPO for years.

I'll always remember the live commercials Ed McMahon used to do on the Tonight show. I'm sure some of them are on Youtube.

Hillary in the House (courtesy of Matthew Yglesias)

This is ick especially the *we don't need no bling*

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/a...

Oh, Senator Metzenbaum. One of my heroes. RIP.

"Never has the soppy emotionalism of old-guard..."===

Never has Camille Paglia ever had an ounce of credibility.
100%, a crank.

"Never has the soppy emotionalism of old-guard..."===

Never has Camille Paglia ever had an ounce of credibility.
100%, a crank.

===================================

She's an iconoclast.  Apparently she breaks some of your golden idols.  Don't always agree with her but her cutting satire is first rate, and on this issue she lampooned a bull's eye.

BREAKING NEWS:

U.S. has slid into recession, economist survey says (Wall Street Journal)

^^seriously...this is on the front page of Yahoo News^^

"She's an iconoclast."======
Camille Paglia is a crank. She has a small following of cranks.

Nancy Pelosi saying again that there will be no dream ticket. Who the heck thinks that an Obama/Clinton ticket is a dream anyway. I think it would be a nightmare at this point.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3...

I do think she's trying to help Obama with this. JMO.

Re: the recession.

We have four neighbors with their homes up for sale. Two have been on the market for nearly a year. I wish them luck -- they aren't gonna sell without some serious price reductions. Hold on to your hats, folks.

2:46 PM EST

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/03/ferraro.html

Originally posted: March 13, 2008

What Geraldine Ferraro said struck me as true enough:

If [Sen. Barack] Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.

But it was grossly incomplete, at best. She ought to have added:

If Hillary Clinton was a man who hadn't been married to a former president, she wouldn't be a leading contender for the Democratic nomination either. And if the current president, George W.  Bush, weren't the son of a former president, he wouldn't be in his position either. The plausibility and appeal of virtually every candidate is based on a number of factors, some of them out of their control and arguably irrelevant. But there you are.

This is ick especially the *we don't need no bling*======

Clearly, white guys can't rap.

 Hill "apologizes"

Only after being *water-boarded*!!.

BO supporters continue to amaze me~ 

cC "Camille Paglia is a crank."

She's certainly too liberated to appeal to some people.

"She's certainly too liberated to appeal to some people."===

umm, yeah, that's it!

3:08 PM EST

http://www.tv7-4.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=107794

Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2008 at 2:21 p.m.

TALLAHASSEE, FLA. (AP) -- The chairwoman of Florida's Democratic Party has said the proposed presidential primary do-over is unlikely to go forward because of concerns about the combined mail-in/in-person election.

Still, Karen Thurman said Thursday she is asking Democratic leaders, the national party and Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton to consider the option as the best way to resolve a delegate dispute.

...

Thurman will review comments from Democratic leaders and make a decision by Monday on whether to proceed with the do-over. But she said based on what she's already heard, it's unlikely to happen.

Talk about quick on their feet and all that. Here's the Obama campaigns response to Penn's press release.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3...

seashell - I've yet to read any posts where you're *outraged* over Clinton's surrogates or antics.

"She's an iconoclast."======
Camille Paglia is a crank. She has a small following of cranks.

================================================

Camille doesn't need "credibility" she is not a scientist or a dealer in factual precision.  She's an artist and satirist.

I don't like labeling people and I am not one of her followers, but I stumbled across this article and have give her much credit for excellent articulation, word-smithing, and very funny analysis of the flaws in Hillary's campaign and the illusion of her followers.  Ironically, Obama follower's "illusions" being on of Hill's campaign themes, Hill's own illusions are not full appreciated.

Paglia's admiration and description of Obama is well put, and her criticism of the modern feminist movement is the kind of heresy that will result in reformation.

cC - I totally agree w/you about Camille P.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/24211#comments

new thread

Camille Paglia: "But I regard affirmative action as pernicious--a system that had wonderful ideals when it started but was almost immediately abused for the benefit of white middle-class women. And the number one sign of it is in the universities. The elite schools were destroyed by affirmative action for women, not for blacks. I want to see more African Americans everywhere, but I do not want to see any kind of quota system."

Interview with the Vamp

Why Camille Paglia hates affirmative action, defends Rush Limbaugh, and respects Ayn Rand

http://www.reason.com/news/printer/29737...

She is a crank with no credibility.
A university professor is expected to have credibility.

Spitzer is a perfect example of a man who people voted for in high numbers and loved (at least at first); a man who lived an outwardly exemplary life and was admired for his prosecution of criminals - a man even some here on the blog thought would be good prez or vp material. 

He's a prime example of how people can mis-judge another human being, and then react crestfallen and shocked when that human does not live up to the expectations of so many. 

Perhaps there's a message here from the political gods.  Perhaps we should listen with something other than our ears and see with something other than our eyes.

***********

IMO, several of you are spot on.  To not vote for the dem nominee, whoever it is, is the end of the country.  Period.  When hatred of a candidate is stronger than love of country, something's terribly wrong. There's a huge difference between the two dems and McC.  Huge!!

Who opined that blacks and progressives would not vote for Hillary? 

To al those who are saying the candidates wouldn't be there unless they were white or female or black or male are really full of crap.
Obama wouldn't be there if he were not able to inspire people to look for something different; an want something better then what is currently offered by other candidates. Those who say he is doing this or that or is successful because he is black are injecting their own sorry-ass racial overtones into the mix.
The same with Hillary. If anything, Bill has been a negative because of his past failings and his own racial overtones. I don't buy her sex as anything other then an attribute of who she is. It doesn't make her a better or worse candidate.
Does her sex account for his scorched-earth policy? Do we blame her nastiness on hormones? Is he like this because she is insecure about who she is and what capabilities she has (my view)? Or is this who she really is devoid of any considerations over her sex.
I admit to not wanting Bill Clinton near the white house but I would say this if the campaign position and candidates own personality were reversed.
That is always the key.
If Hillary had Obama's personality, vision and connection with people I would support her even with the useless Bubba. If Obama were running a nasty, narrow vision, limited campaign I would not support him.
So maybe those of us who distain Hillary are not narrow-minded sexist wife-beaters but see Hillary as more of the same divisive, triangulation, Republ-lite we have come to despise. We see Obama not as a smooth-talking black guy but as a person with a vision that I approve and accept; regardless of skin color.

So why would folks want to vote for Hillary when she looses a state and sez the folks don't matter.
If she gets the nomination, these folks will matter in November and they may not vote for Hillary.
Hilary has to own up to the fact she is a nasty, negative person with a lot of attributes people dislike. She has to apologize for the negative destructive campaign she is running; state that racial overtones and slurs from her supporters will not be tolerated.
She gave a lukewarm apology for her war vote and defended her Kyl-Lieberman vote. She didn't learn much from the first event.

Everyday McCain comes out with something more depraved. Everyday Hillary comes out with something more evil and does something to show she only cares about winning. She learned nothing fronm Bush and the Iraq War (ends vs means).
So we can say Hillary has a better platform until we are blue in the face and that is true. But that means nothing if the candidate does not honor that platform.

We will probably not vote if Hillary gets the nod and will work to get the other Dem candidates elected.

Love the logic, don't believe in anybody because you will be disappointed.  Look for the invisible which only a few can see, and those few know what others don't.  Huh?  Doesn't make any sense to me.  

We should vote for HIllary because we can see that she lies, that ambition trumps ethics, fairness, sound judgment, clear thinking.  We know her faults: she is mean minded, petty, authoritarian, willing to punish those who disagree with her, is in collusion with the corporate/lobbyist/government hegemony, and panders.  She mismanages a campaign, takes credit for international relations when she mostly was present as the wife of a president, and is willing to use racism, subterfuge, and innuendo to decimate an opponent and those who disagree with her.

Vote for Hillary because you've already been disappointed!

HERE, HERE! to rich^kolker.

---

The Clintons' and DLCers have always played the "win at all costs" game. They like those one hit wonders even though that attitude is not very American or Democratic. It's interesting how they forgot to "cover your ass" this time. Blind arrogance has a tendency to do that to people. But then again I wouldn't begin to assume that they have not so.

The Clintons' eyes are not on a seat behind a desk in an oval office. Their eyes are on all that gold being made in the stock markets from the war in Iraq and on the backs of the American taxpayers and our children.

not so. s/b not done so.

It is wise to always follow the money game in every election.