Dean is first!

The RNC is probably saving up all it's funds for their Congressional races.

Money to Superdelegates: These current and former elected officials received campaign contributions from either Obama or Clinton in the 2006 and/or 2008 election cycles

Fundraising by Party 

Hi folks. Just got back from dinner and chat. I posted the Gonzalez remark (found on Caine's blog) because it show the lengths that the repubs will go to. I see this race about Obama vs. McC now. I don't worry much about what Hillary does, at this point.

puddle, you're correct on both counts, actually. Gonzalez is neither bright nor honest. A classic Greenie...can't organize, would rather holler than deliberate. I've always found him to be a petulant, intellectual light-white....perfect running mate for Nader.

Log Cabin Repubs....sad that they're still deluding themselves.

Mainefem...I've never once hear Hillary describe herself as a feminist.

lol....light white s/b light-weight.

Good morning, BFA! Took advantage of a Sat am slow start; now THIS is retirement.

In skimming through the past threads, I was happy to see that some here viewed *Rendition.* My husband and I saw this in Jan and the film really bothered me because this is indeed happening under putzCo. It was also so easy to *disappear* this innocent man. The film certainly makes the case for making at least one duty-free credit card purchase while traveling in an airplane. LOL

*******
What a silly tempest in a teapot about 'Cain not being *natural-born* b/c he was born in the Panama Canal Zone! My older son was born in the US (MT, in fact) and my second son was born in Morocco. Both are considered to be *natural-born* Americans. Their father, however, is American through the naturalization process, i.e., his birth citizenship was different. That is the clear bright line. Or it should be.

We went our separate ways after thirteen years together, although have remained in touch as amicably as possible in the circumstances, principally due to our parental responsibilities. Fortunately, we each found happiness in second marriages. As a result, my sons also have a half-sister through his and several step siblings through mine. I like to think of us all as a blended family, which has worked quite harmoniously.

************
Thinking back to mainefem's comments: certainly I thought (as much as was possible in those pre-Pill days) about having children. But I also believed that my first marriage would last forever. It didn't. Luckily, I had an education, resources, and a supportive family and did not have to use the welfare system.

But I am glad that the system would have been there for me, if I had needed it. And I want it to be there for anyone else who ever needs it. But we should aspire as much as possible, if for no other reason than human dignity, to assist people to get out of welfare. After all, the real victims are the children and the resulting impact on future generations. None of the current programs work, IMO.

And I didn't see a response (although I may have been skimming too quickly) to mainefem's trivia question and will take a guess: Marion Wright Edelman.

Her husband (the Clinton Administration appointee who resigned due to to so-called welfare reform) was one of my professors. One result: I had the privilege of meeting this remarkable woman.

If you ever want to really understand how *unequal* women are in this country (even though we have been sadly brainwashed to believe that we are), take a Women's Legal History Course. It's a real eye-opener.

One of putzCo's *successes* ... creating sectarianism and religious strife where none existed for centuries.

What have we become?

==============
U.S. Zeal for Iran's Non-Muslims Faulted
Minorities' Exodus Worries Leaders Of Fading Faiths
By Thomas Erdbrink and Karin Brulliard
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, March 1, 2008; A10

TEHRAN -- For decades the United States has funded an effort intended to help Christians, Zoroastrians and Jews escape persecution in Iran. Now some of their leaders are questioning American motives as sects that have endured here for thousands of years dwindle rapidly as a result of the migration.

Since the late 1980s, the U.S. government has made it easier for certain foreigners fleeing religious oppression overseas, such as in the former Soviet Union or Indochina, to immigrate to America.

But leaders of Iran's non-Muslim religious minority groups say their communities are not mistreated by the Iranian government, whose actions are overseen by Shiite Muslim clerics. Instead, some Christian and Zoroastrian leaders say, their members are leaving mainly to take advantage of the program's offer of a streamlined path to legal residence in the United States for a fee of $3,000.

"Christians and Zoroastrians leave because of unemployment, the bad economy, but these problems affect all Iranians," said Yonathan Betkolia, an Assyrian Christian leader and member of Iran's parliament who holds the United States responsible for his community's decline. "They give all those green cards to our people. Their only goal is to propagate the idea that Iran is mistreating its minorities."

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Dan Froomkin's Friday roundup of DC doings ... and guess what, there's more unethical, if not actually criminal, behavior on the part of putzCo.

Wonder what position Goeglein will be promoted to ...


=============
The White House Plagiarist
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Friday, February 29, 2008; 2:08 PM

Timothy S. Goeglein, a top White House aide who is President Bush's chief liaison to religious groups, has admitted to plagiarizing a column he wrote for his hometown paper, the Fort Wayne (Ind.) News-Sentinel.

Goeglein is a special assistant to the president and deputy director of public liaison. He previously worked closely with Karl Rove and during the 2004 election was Bush's chief emissary to conservative political groups.

Sylvia A. Smith writes in the Fort Wayne Journal Gazette: "A Fort Wayne native and White House official acknowledged Friday he copied large portions of an essay that appeared in a Dartmouth College publication and presented them as his own in a News-Sentinel column.

"'It is true,' Tim Goeglein wrote to The Journal Gazette in an email. 'I am entirely at fault. It was wrong of me. There are no excuses.'

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Clinton Camp Throws Sink, Chairs, Table At Obama

Best 3 of 5. OK, Best 4 of 7. No, Wait, Best 5 of 9...

Definitely gardens of evil. Most of the victims are innocent children.

Thanks again, putz, prick and Condiliar.

============
Robert Fisk: The gardens of the devil, still sowing death
The foundation of their lives remains the war that was fought before they were born
Saturday, 1 March 2008

The first time I saw one, my first instinct was to pick it up. It shone in the sunlight, bright green, something new and fresh amid the dry grass of the south Lebanon hills. The little cluster bomblet seemed to have been made to hold in the hand. No wonder the little children died.

[...]
In the Middle East, the Second World War has not ended.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/fisk/r...

Very interesting story. I hope that this was just an unfortunate accident, but with the issue of female genital mutilation being a hot topic, it may not be coincidence that an activist anti-FGM has been found dead.

===============
Supermodel Katoucha found dead in river Seine
By Andy McSmith
Saturday, 1 March 2008

Police in Paris have found the body of one of the world's first black supermodels, a month after she went missing on her way home from a party.

Katoucha Niane, who became a global catwalk star in the 1980s, disappeared on 31 January while returning to her houseboat moored in the centre of Paris. Her body, which a passer-by spotted under a bridge on Thursday, bore no marks that suggested she had been attacked. "She fell into the water and went straight to the bottom," a source close to the investigation said.

[...]
Modelling, she said, was a kind of revenge for the terrible experience of genital mutilation which she was put through, in accordance with custom in parts of Africa, when she was just nine years old. "One day, my mother said we were going to the cinema. And I found myself the victim of a horror movie, an unimaginable trauma that I had never managed to talk about, until I found love and wrote In My Flesh" she wrote in her autobiography, In My Flesh, published in 1994.

After that, she wrote: "I embodied the most arrogant and admired kind of femininity, I who was supposed to be diminished."

Also in 1994 she founded Association Katoucha pour la lutte contre l'excision, to campaign against the practice and provide help for the women who had been subjected to it. Her website urged: "Let's draw attention to the religious, medical, psychological and social realities of this ancestral practice."

[...]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe...

Very interesting commentary from Naomi Klein (who is indeed a BO supporter). I tend to agree with her that this was a missed opportunity.

The comments following hers are also interesting.

And this is the last for now.

*******
Also, so long as Rove is still circulating freely out there, supposed *leakages* from either campaign may NOT be coming from supporters of the other candidate.

Cui bono when the Dems commence their all too usual circular firing squad?

=====================
It's no slur to be called a Muslim
The turban photos affair was a missed chance for Obama. If he really is to repair the world, he must tackle this Islamophobia
Naomi Klein
The Guardian
Saturday March 1 2008

Hillary Clinton denied leaking the photo of Barack Obama wearing a turban, but her campaign manager says that even if she had, it would be no big deal. "Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely."

Sure she did. And George Bush put on a poncho in Santiago, while Paul Wolfowitz burned up YouTube with his anti-malarial African dance routines while World Bank president. The obvious difference is this: when white politicians go ethnic, they look funny; when a black presidential contender does it, he looks foreign - and when the ethnic apparel in question is vaguely reminiscent of the clothing worn by Iraqi and Afghan fighters (at least to many Fox viewers, who think any headdress other than a baseball cap is a declaration of war on America), the image is downright frightening.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/...

Trying to clarify this garbled sentence ... probably without success ... LOL

**********
Also, so long as Rove is still circulating freely out there, supposed *leakages* may NOT be coming from supporters of the other candidate.

**********
Have good ones ... really gone now.

Dorothy Dean, not Howard:  He can't endorse anyone....from last thread.

I talked with 3 people tonight who are "leaning" towards BO, "reluctantly."  They were JE and DK supporters. 

Indeed, as Dorothy Dean, a longtime political organizer in Dallas who ran Bill Clinton's presidential campaigns in the southern part of that city and delivered historic Democratic turnouts in prior elections, said in an interview Thursday, the state seems poised for an Obama victory on Tuesday, March 4 -- not because there is anything wrong with Clinton, but because Obama has touched a deeper, once-in-a-generation nerve.

"I know Hillary. I have talked to her personally," (Dorothy) Dean said. "I have nothing against her. She is knowledgeable. She's smart. She knows what she's doing. But this is a new wave. It's a new day. It's a new time. And the people have heard the same old promises. They don't know if Obama can deliver. But at least they want to give him a try."

Dorothy Dean, who has worked in local politics for four-plus decades explained.

What's sticking in my craw tonight is the fact that the Clintons helped take Howard down in 04 clearing the way for her run now.  I don't like her and don't trust BO.

Politics is too rough and corrupt for me.  I'm better off painting and dancing. 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

sea - lol!  I'm sorry if folks thought I was implying Howard made those comments.  it didn't occur to me that her first name was not in the paragraphs I posted!  my deepest apologies - I will try to pay more attention to that sort of thing!

Good morning - driving by to post a link for any ballet nuts out there -- got this in my email. It's a youtube website devoted to the NYC ballet.
http://youtube.com/nycballet

let me re-post the link to that article - and I see what I did - I didn't include the intro that gave her full name - here it is:

...Indeed, as Dorothy Dean, a longtime political organizer in Dallas who ran Bill Clinton's presidential campaigns in the southern part of that city and delivered historic Democratic turnouts in prior elections, said in an interview Thursday, the state seems poised for an Obama victory on Tuesday, March 4 -- not because there is anything wrong with Clinton, but because Obama has touched a deeper, once-in-a-generation nerve.

"I know Hillary. I have talked to her personally," Dean said. "I have nothing against her. She is knowledgeable. She's smart. She knows what she's doing. But this is a new wave. It's a new day. It's a new time. And the people have heard the same old promises. They don't know if Obama can deliver. But at least they want to give him a try."

Dean, who has worked in local politics for four-plus decades explained.

"That's the movement," she said. "That's the hope. And he didn't coin that phrase. The people who heard him, who listened to him, they found that. He brings hope to the people of the country. That's why they jumped on his bandwagon. That's why they believe his message. And so, whereas I'm old and maybe should be thinking in the past, I am for progress. I am for the future, for my children, grand-children, great-grand children. I want it better than it used to be."

http://www.alternet.org/election08/78306/

and from the same article we see the next level of Hillary's desperation:

... "Sen. Obama says if we talk about national security, we are trying to scare people," she said. "Well, I don't think Texans scare easily..."

her red phone ad didn't work out so well so she has to make it seem like he NEVER talks about national security - as if that ad of hers WASN'T intended to scare people.  even the pundits thought it was a McCain/republican hit ad until the end where Hillary approves it!   I'd call her a bitch but that would be an insult to female dogs

What's sticking in my craw tonight is the fact that the Clintons helped take Howard down in 04 clearing the way for her run now. 

I agree!  that's been stuck in my craw for years now, compounded by her/their attempts to take down so many good progressive grassroots candidates in 2006 and her actions this primary season.  since we know that Mark Penn has such close ties to Charlie Black - and have seen Cllinton and McCain parroting their attacks on Obama - I believe we should be very concerned.

in case you missed it - plenty of links here:

http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/mark-penns-tangled-corporate-web.html

clip... And, Ari Berman wrote about this last spring:

A host of prominent Republicans fall under Penn's purview. B-M's Washington lobbying arm, BKSH & Associates, is run by Charlie Black, a leading GOP operative who maintains close ties to the White House, including Karl Rove, and was a partner with Lee Atwater, the consultant who crafted the Willie Horton smear campaign for George H.W. Bush in 1988. In recent years Black's clients have included the likes of Iraq's Ahmad Chalabi, the darling of the neocon right in the run-up to the war; Lockheed Martin; and Occidental Petroleum. In 2005 he landed a contract with the Lincoln Group, the disgraced PR firm that covertly placed US military propaganda in Iraqi news outlets.

Black is only one cannon in B-M's Republican arsenal.

Penn works for Clinton.

Black works for McCain.

And Black works for Penn.

What's sticking in my craw tonight is the fact that the Clintons helped take Howard down in 04 clearing the way for her run now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

so why would a true deaniac even consider supporting her now?

Paine - thanks for the great youtube clips of Gabriel's Oboe and of Celine singing Calling You -- you oughta rent Baghdad Cafe from Netflix or Blockbuster -- the song doesn't really play such a major part but it's a surprisingly good movie - almost Fellini-esque except the ending is too pat and feel good. A cross between Fellini and a chick flick -- and the unspoken commentary on stereotypes is a little dated for 2008.

Happy Saturday everyone.

For the same reason that I always appreciated getting ditto head talking points from Robert; I appreciate Linda stopping by and giving us the latest from the Clinton machine. If she pulls out a win in Ohio and comes close in Texas you had better be prepared to counter it in Pennsylvania, and if you don't know what it is, good luck. and I have seen nothing from Linda that is a deviation of what I have seen from other sources from the Clinton team. Hillary has consistantly beat 40%, why are those supporters making that choice?  

Obama needs to break 60% in a big state and then this thing is over. Today I am going to a District Central Committee meeting to change the venue for the District Convention because we don't know that by the end of April every vote won't count, and here in Iowa there will be intense competition for the delegates allocated to Edwards.

I wish you Obama supporters would be able to promise me that a venue that is fine for a normal 80% turnout would work because Hillary's supporters have given up, but as of today I have to assume otherwise and look for a bigger venue.

Annilow

what is the answer to yesterday's quiz?

Good morning, everybody

We're in the midst of a snow storm that promises to turn to rain later.

I've been slumming at 

http://revjph.blogspot.com/

even watched a Youtube of Father Ted in the lingerie department.

Don't ask me why.  I find the site relaxing.  It deals with religion in a

humorous manner.  And, they let me post because it seems I signed up

with Blogspot some long time ago. 

one model shows snow in Kentucky the end of the week. does it ever snow in Kentucky in March except in the mtns. ?

Kentucky needs to be in the 2025 pool with Oregon

I think some of those tens of millions need to be spent opening offices there.

One quick pass-through: MoveOn is really working hard to help Barack win in TX.

I've gotten a couple of different emails in the past couple days requesting my presence at an Obama Call party.

Have respectfully declined since I am currently out of the country.

But to me the encouraging thing is that the Dems are so energized this year. I hope that the energy continues when we'll really need it ... in the GE.

I've deleted the personal details, but here is the general text of the email.

If you are not a MoveOn member (I presume that all on the mailing list have received similar emails) and would like to participate in this effort, I suggest that you copy and paste the link to go directly to the MoveOn website and check in to find details for your particular geographic area.

Now off ... have good ones!

===============
Dear xxx,

About an hour ago, the Associated Press ran this headline, "Poll: Obama, Clinton Even in Texas."1

That means the Obama call parties that MoveOn members are hosting in living rooms across the nation this Sunday are absolutely vital. We will call hundreds of thousands of Texas voters, and help put Obama over the top.

Can you sign up to attend a "Yes We Can" Obama call party in xxx this Sunday, Mar. 2, 2008, at 4:00 PM? Here are the details and a link to RSVP:

[name & address of party location deleted]
What to bring: A cell phone (and charger)

Click here to RSVP and get more event details:
http://pol.moveon.org/event/callforobama...

This will be the largest one-day phone bank in presidential primary history. We'll kick our Obama parties off with a conference call featuring actress Halle Berry, Sen. Ted Kennedy, and Texas radio host Jim Hightower.

Then we'll get to work calling our 125,000 MoveOn members in Texas—plus hundreds of thousands of other targeted voters. Most Texas voters don't know about the unusual primary-plus-caucus system in Texas, which allows voters to vote twice and double their impact—that's why our calls will make such a big difference. If Obama wins Texas, that should clinch him the nomination.

Now's your chance to help Obama make history. If you have a cell phone, can you join us at a "Yes We Can" Obama call party in xxx this Sunday, Mar. 2, 2008, at 4:00 PM?

lamb coming in here, storm the end of the month? makes sense to me given we are having record snow totals

the grain futures will really go nuts with weather problems at planting time

with the money jumping back and forth between Wall Street and the Chicago futures markets the Treasury could be racking up some real income if they were taxing the movement of money

Dow gets above 12-7 take some out park it in Chicago, below 12-3 and back it goes

the volitility has put the price of options out of reach as a marketing tool and margin requirements for a position mean only deep pockets may apply, so farmers are forced into a cash position of storing their own inventory

that will drive prices higher because in a volitile situation there is a lot of security in keeping the bins full

but don't worry Annilow, the cure for high prices, is high prices

We'd better not crown Obama yet -- TX is tightening according to Zogby

http://www.c-span.org/pdf/zogby/OH_TX_Po...

WUFT FM G'ville FL classical music trivia question from Friday

Question: A composition that children of all ages enjoy was actually written to take a swipe at critics who didn't like the composer's music. Name the composer and the composition.

Answer: Saint Saens - Carnival of the Animals

(thanks Phil - I forgot)

Our weather is low 70's and the dogwoods and azaleas are in full bloom here.

See y'all later.

On principle, let me just repeat that referring to political campaigns as "raising" money is making an assertion contrary to fact.  What really happened is that people whom we're supposed to consider leaders went begging and other people handed over money that they didn't need themselves or that they epxected would buy them something more valuable instead.

As far as I can tell, the only real effect of "campaign finance reform" has been to reduce the amount of money influence seekers now need to spend.  Instead of handing over large bundles, they can say they would have gladly given more, if the law allowed.

The only meaningful reform will put restrictions on what public officials and candidates for office can and can't do and one of the things that should be absolutely forbidden is office holder  participation in the the electoral efforts of another person. Talk about a conflict of interest!

Now...........this recent Hillary Clinton commercial........you know the one where our kids are safe asleep in their beds..............its 3am.................the WH..........the red phone(the big one)................it rings, several times( hmmm, Im assuming this President would allow such a important phone to ring that many times).........................and shows Hillary, answering thephone........................fully dressed (Im assuming ready to go?)......................she looks neat, glasses on, very dapper.

Really people...........................lol

For a while Zogby had a really good record, but that was years ago.  I think he's gone into the predicting mode based on some consumer preference formula.

The news last night reported that "impulse buying" had come to a halt.  That came as a bit of a shock because I haven't done any impulse buying, ever.  Well, actually, I have to take that back.  I bought myself a Steiff teddy bear about twenty years ago because the price was really low and it reminded me of a teddy I had as a very little kid.  It was in a bear store in the Fenneuile Hall Market in Boston--loss leader in honor of the opening.  The store is no longer there.  Even Steiff toys are now made in China.

The local paper had a story the other day about malls all over the country losing stores.  Serves them right.  The manner in which they hollowed out inner city shopping districts was plain predatory.  Established businesses were recruited with low rents (subsidized by tax advantages for building in the sticks) and utility breaks or rebates and then, once the downtown had been depopulated, the rents and the other costs all soared.  Not to mention the cost of setting up private security systems and renting cops.  It was all a shell game. 

Michael Ellis--LOL LOL on the Clinton phone ad.  The spouse had the same reaction.  I'm thinking we're going to spend years and years trying to figure out how one organization could produce so much bad stuff.

Maybe it's just another example of how monopoly produces mediocrity.

hey, I like that thought

"Monopoly, the well-spring of the mediocre"

Maybe I should google it. 

Obama never has been against globalization in a way Paul Wellstone was, maybe he just wants to be able to fly between campaign stops.

I don't know why the furor over the Canada/NAFTA/Obama story because there is clearly enough evidence in the Obama record to show he is pro trade.

there is not that much daylight between these two on policy, and I come at that thought as District Platform Chair looking at what language would deliniate the line and be worthy of debate at a District Convention

because of the Edwards effect, Obama supporters will have to yield on the word "Universal" Health care

let me share a little of my thought process on that point

If I use that as the title UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE I will avoid a 15 minute debate over whether or not to capitalize the "U". and we can get to the meat of the debate, which is the idea of a mandate.

Is health care a right?

Is access to affordable health care an entitlement?

If everyone's good health is a benefit to the entire body politic how do we share the burden equitably?

Preventative measures and a good diet and exercise are the most cost effective, especially as a life long choice.Did NCLB cause the dropping of PE classes? 

If vaccinations are mandatory how do you stop drug company profiteering?

Can we combine all  of the Obama cost cutting measures in a truly universal scheme?

Are mandates a non-starter because of rovian considerations?

Can there be a sustainable food supply without fully funded conservation programs?

OK, there seems to be some awareness of monopoly producing mediocrity, but it seems to be primarily restricted to the argument against public education which isn't a monopoly in any sense of the word.  Not only is the funding multi-sourced, but the product is taylor-made to local specifications.  I mean, if the source of funds were determinative, one could fold all our enterprise into a U.S. Treasury monopoly.

The only reason I'm even considering it as an argument is because it's probably going to surface in the discussion of a nationally funded shared care (health care) program.  The only thing to restrain it is the fact that the "competitive" system we have now doesn't even attain the level of mediocrity.  Mediocre health care for all would be preferable to what we've got.

How can we best separate the funding from the delivery system?  What do I mean?  Think of the multi-modal transportation system.  While the over-emphasis on the individual or single passenger mode has been detrimental, the problem is one of balance in the support for multiple modes.  And, indeed, here the centralized funding has promoted a decentralized monopoly that promotes inefficiency.

At what point does monopoly destroy efficiencies of scale?

Why is the private automobile being subsidized centrally to promote inefficiency?

Why is the system of public education mediocre?  I don't think centralized funding has anything to do with it.  Rather, I think it's because the main emphasis is on enforcing obedience--a problem that so-called private schools don't have because the children arrive prepared to be obedient. 

I'm a little disappointed that we Vermonters didn't get a chance to meet Michelle Obama - I was really hoping she'd come here before the primary.  but since Vermont is the only State in the Union which Bush has refused to visit during his pResidency, I would respectfully invite the Obama Family to make Vermont the first state they visit as the First Family.

The REAL image of Hillary answering the red phone at 3am.........................

http://www.clipartguide.com/_pages/0511-0712-0716-4639.html

Phil, the question is whether the mandate applies to the individual in need of care to get it, or the community to provide it.  Since the individual is going to die anyway, sooner or later, the incentive to comply with a mandate to get healthy is less than it should be for a society that expects to go on and on and risks the potential of being wiped out in short order (as many African societies devasted by AIDS currently demonstrate) if the health needs of the population aren't addressed.

Besides that, it's very difficult, if not impossible to make people do stuff they don't want.  That's why we set up governments and hire agents to do the things most people don't find attractive.  In effect, government agents are paid bribes to carry out duties we mandate.  If people could be mandated to do things they don't like and if that mandate were easy to enforce, life would be a lot easier.  Obama, to his credit, recognizes that mandates on individuals can't be enforced.  Where he's going wrong is in thinking that there are layers and layers of middlemen needed to mediate the flow of dollars between health care providers and recipients.  (It doesn't bother me since he's not going to be setting up the program anyway.  I can see why he doesn't want to antagonize the insurance industry at this point). 

On C-span it just said "schedule update" Howard Dean DNC Chair at 1 PM today.
Here's a link -- it's a speech from Feb 26.

http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/cspan.csp?command=dprogram&record=561823283

Also - the online schedule says it starts at 12:55.

Can there be a sustainable food supply without fully funded conservation programs? 

Now, there's a question with a lot of problems.  Who's being fed?  Is the food or the supply going to be sustained?  What does a fund have to do with conservation?  What's a conservation program?  How does it differ from just letting the land lie fallow or leaving it alone?  Who's providing funds for doing what?  Is it the people being fed or those doing the feeding?  

Let me suggest that at present the food being supplied to the majority of the population is not sustaining them very well.  Indeed, much of it is downright unhealthy; though not, unfortunately, downright lethal.  Stuff that kills people in short order tends to be more readily identified.  That's how come 40,000 patients at one clinic are now infected with hepatitis C after receiving various kinds of "healthful" injections from contaminated vials. 

http://tinyurl.com/2lmjqd

Maybe this link will work for a description of Howard's speech on Cspan at 12:55.

Must leave computer! Must do work! Bye.

 Since the individual is going to die anyway, sooner or later, the incentive to comply with a mandate to get healthy is less than it should be for a society that expects to go on and on

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I knew you could come up with the logic for a societal amortization of the cost Monica.

what I might see preferable is a multi-pool risk sharing with various levels of government subsidization due to the riskiest begin out of reach of individuals but the most necessary for the benefit of society as a whole, drug resistant TB needing expensive closely monitored antibiotics, HIV positive, and the wider benefit of their anti-virals, immuno-compromised conditions, plus catastrophic costs, the ones that bankrupt individuals, but are a risk to the larger health equation, and are kept productive with stable financial risk, under that they are already covered

as Fred will point out there are many carcinogenic chemicals in our environment thanks to the failure of EPA but the individual cancer risk is the fickle finger of fate

no reason not to socialize the cost

like why it is a good investment to help diadvantaged pre-schoolers with Head Start, it pays for society, when it may not be affordable for the individual

 it pays for society, when it may not be affordable for the individual

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To me those are the no-brainers for governmental action.

government being the pooled sharing of responsibility for the burden of providing it

taxes being the way we share those costs

which level of government becomes the question

From The Cincinnati Enquirer upon their endorsement of Barack Obama this morning...

"Clinton has shown herself to be an able senator, with an impressive grasp of details. But she remains for many in this country a polarizing figure. Much of that dislike undoubtedly is residual disapproval of her husband, former President Bill Clinton, and his policies and performance in office. That may be unfair to her, but it remains a fact of political life.

But her own style has opened her to criticism as well. Her major public policy involvement during her husband's administration was the failed attempt to come up with a universal health care policy. Critics remember her closed-door, high-handed and uncompromising approach, which drew opposition from many Democrats as well as Republicans and doomed the initiative. She says she has learned from those mistakes, yet her style often seems abrasive and superior when criticized." 

Who's being fed?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Monica

If you don't eat you will save somebody all the rest of those questions about public services, lol.

everyone eats

the question is one of externalities for conservation expenses, and individual farmer may view soil erosion as someone else's problem since he doesn't pay the cost of dredging the shipping channel or the dead zone in the gulf as an individual problem and plants fence row to fence row

the benefit of clean water downstream doesn't accue back to him, the additional profit of planting up to the edge of a stream does

hence a federal program of buffer strips along streams those that receive the benefit foot the bill, and the same for the cost sharing of building terraces

right now there are 40 million acres in a Conservation Reserve and they only got in there because they are on highly erodable land

does society want to pay for clean water? in the short run the profit goes to plowing it up, in the long run depleted soils lead to the fall of a civilization

Don't know why I look at polls, don't trust them. 

Zogby does have race tightening in TX, it also has Obama now tied in Ohio.

What's sticking in my craw tonight is the fact that the Clintons helped take Howard down in 04 clearing the way for her run now.

Auh, but who took down Dean? Was it the Kerry and Gephardt folks that put together their own PAC with a pledge "to take out Dean" and those same people are working for Obama? Gibbs, who is even on one of theose NAFTA pieces, was the main guy, who has even given interviews of what a great jobs they did when they created Americans for Jobs, Health Care and Progressive Values PAC and their Osama/Dean ad. And when they were successful, Gibbs went to work for Obama in 2004 and has stayed there still on his Presidential Campaign as one of his main strategists.


Phil wrote, then why would any Deaniac support her now.

I guess an even stronger question for the Obama supporters then, especially because we know first hand what those folks did and they had nothing to do with Clinton.

Linda - actions, not words.  look what Obama and Co are doing to engage Americans in the process.  look what Clinton and Co are doing to insult voters if their state wasn't in her win column.  notice how Obama is controlling his campaign and his message - notice how Clinton is all over the map.  he's proving he's a leader - she is not.

51 Jo, indeed. Actions not words. As we're seeing, these words have no meaning from some.

Do share, what would you like to share that the Clintons are doing to "insult voters" as you put it. I hope it's something specific, because I consider a greater insult from Obama, that he finds it easy to say anything and the voters will ignore his record and everything that he's done on the votes he claims to care about. Including at the debate, where he talks about us engaging NATO and should be working to address Afhanistan...and it turns out he was put Chair of that sub comittee, an even knowing he wouldn't be there to hold meetings, didn't step down so they could do the work that he claims is so important.

So please, enlighten me.

Linda in NM,

Gephardt is working for Clinton.  Gibbs is with Obama.  Quite frankly I don't get what you are saying.

I wonder what all the women supporting Clinton would have to say about this if it were Obama's campaign who had taken this donation and refused to give it back.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/29/718538.aspx

sm 53. I see you don't get it. Gibbs is the man who created the American for Jobs health car and Progressives values, with other "former Gephardt backers, along with former Kerry backers, Gibbs too was from kerry's staff, where they took a pledge to take out Dean and ran the Osama/Dean ads. They had nothing to do with the Clintons and Gibbs has been and is still working for Obama.

Linda....

What you say is true, it's a tangled web. However, it's indisputable that Clark, by his own words was asked by the Clintons to run and take Dean down. There is the Clinton and the Dean faction of the Dem Party. Let's take the Clintonistas down now, so we can then deal with
the other stuff.

I have never gotten my choice for president, but thank goodness we have Howard, we can trust that he won't ever let the country down.

And, in case you missed the latest in the words vs actions category.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMpbpov-H...://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/29/84354/2510

WASHINGTON, Feb. 29 /PRNewswire- USNewswire -- "Senator Barack Obama faces a huge credibility gap on NAFTA," declared Tom Buffenbarger, president of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM). "In a nationally televised debate, he told Ohioans he would renegotiate the treaty. But just weeks earlier, his senior economic adviser signaled to a foreign government that the Senator's anti-NAFTA stance would be just 'campaign rhetoric.'"
According to the CTV Television Network, a senior economic adviser to the Obama campaign, Austan Goolsbee, contacted the Canadian Consulate General in Chicago to telegraph Obama's pro-NAFTA stance. Goolsbee is the Robert P. Gwinn Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago, a Fulbright Scholar and a New York Times columnist.

The CTV story , which aired on February 27, has roiled political discussion in both Canada and the United States. The network stood by its story in a follow-up report released today:

"Which is it, Senator Obama? Are you pro-NAFTA, or anti-NAFTA?" asked Buffenbarger. "If Senator Obama is really an anti-NAFTA candidate, he will repudiate Austan Goolsbee and his message to the Canadian government. And he should do so before Ohioans and Texans vote."

http://www.goiam.org/content.cfm?cID=125...

sm 53. I see you don't get it.

no, I get it - regardless of who is on Obama's campaign, he's running a clean campaign.  Hillary and Co are not.  it really is that simple.

Audrey, yes, I do remember Clark saying the Clintons asked him to run. But again, not exactly the ones who took the oath to "take out Dean" and created the pac and the ads to smear and do exactly that. Hardly a different kind of campaigning.

Jo are you sm too?

Phil, the challenge wasn't to the substance of the question but to the formulation.  LOL

Verbiage needs to be reworked. 

Obama running a clean campaign? roflmao oh yea, now I see, we do just ignore realities.

Black backers steadfast for Clinton
By: Josephine Hearn
February 29, 2008 05:56 PM EST

African-American superdelegates said Thursday that they’ll stand up against threats, intimidation and “Uncle Tom” smears rather than switch their support from Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton to Sen. Barack Obama.

“African-American superdelegates are being targeted, harassed and threatened,” said Rep. Emanuel Cleaver II (D-Mo.), a superdelegate who has supported Clinton since August. Cleaver said black superdelegates are receiving “nasty letters, phone calls, threats they’ll get an opponent, being called an Uncle Tom.

“This is the politics of the 1950s,” he complained. “A lot of members are experiencing a lot of ugly stuff. They’re not going to talk about it, but it’s happening.”

After civil rights icon Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) switched his support from Clinton to Obama earlier this week, other black superdelegates have come under renewed pressure to do a similar about-face. A handful have bowed to the entreaties in recent weeks, including Georgia Rep. David Scott, but many say they are steadfast in their support for Clinton and resent strong-arm tactics to make them change.

Rep. Diane E. Watson (D-Calif.), a black lawmaker and Clinton backer, said the intense lobbying for Obama would not alter her vote.

“I’ve gotten threatening mail,” Watson said. “They say, ‘Your district went 61-29 Obama and you need to change.’ But I don’t intimidate. I can hold the ground. … I would lose my seat over my principles.”

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?u...

and your NAFTA stuff has been blown out of the water.   I'll give you one thing, tho - even when proven wrong, you spread the same stuff over and over again.  you do have persistence.

re: Do share, what would you like to share that the Clintons are doing to "insult voters" as you put it

in every state she has lost she and Bill and her surrogates have said either that caucuses disenfranchise voters - that don't count or that she didn't 'need' that state, or that state wasn't in her game plan - can you honestly tell me that you've missed this?  this week she said TEXAS wasn't a state she had to win - wasn't really in her plan anyway.  what a crock of bull!  doesn't it irritate you that she LEAVES even a big state if she thinks she's losing - even as folks are still voting, she doesn't thank her volunteers, moves on to the comments about why they don't matter.  unlike Obama, she's never gracious in her losses to him or the folks who worked hard on the ground for her there.  the ONLY time she appreciates the grassroots, the average American voters in every state is if they donate to her campaign.  she's made it very clear.

Linda in NM,

You have posted that NAFTA story on at least two threads.  It has been debunked.

According to the source, Wilson exaggerated the communication between the Obama campaign and the Canadian official during discussions this week with Ian Brodie, the prime minister's chief of staff, who leaked the story to CTV.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4365922&page=1

Rest assured, Jo and I are not the same.  Jo has much more expertise than I.  Thanks for the compliment. 

so now you are impying that the Obama campaign is threatening and intimidating Clinton superdelegates - no one has said that the campaign is at all involved.  geez, Rove would have a field day with you. 

and linda, no I am not s m - this is my only handle.  I'm not sure who s m is.  why do you ask?

Linda....

Gibb's gig is advertising, he'll promote anyone as long as they pay him. There were a lot of people who didn't want Dean elected, including the media, but we know the Clintons saw Dean as their obstacle.

And now, we're not dealing with all of the others, it's just Hillary and Obama. Neither was my choice, but I'm not going to give up four years of working with Dean to take back the Party because I have questions about Obama. I know the Clintons want to stop our efforts. She's using the DLC plan to lose elecions. If I don't focus on the candidates, and make my choice based on our
original goal, I'm OK.

last one and then I'll leave you to your opinions, Linda. re: But again, not exactly the ones who took the oath to "take out Dean" and created the pac and the ads to smear and do exactly that. Hardly a different kind of campaigning.

they are all the same group, Linda.  you are punting for the dlc right now, every last corporate-controlled, money hungry democrat (in name, anyway) power broker who s trying to keep that power from we, the people - just as Howard Dean told us a mere 5 years ago.  I can't believe you don't know who these people are.

Jo if you think surrogates, or any supporter associated with Clinton, makes them "the Clinton campaign", as Obama always says, then yes, key supporters who are calling based on the Obama campaign support, yes, that makes it the Obama campaign. And as Obama himself has asked, if he doesn't stand by what his supporters are doing on his behalf, he should ask them to stop and denounce their tactics.

you responded to what I responded to "sm" with, that's why I asked if you were "sm".


and

sm, no, it has not been debunked and CTV ran the story again lastnight. The Ambassador Wilson confirmed that Austan Goolsbee did contact him and make tose statements AND Austan Goolsbee would not deny it to ABC...even again lastnight.

saying it's not true, doesn't make it so.

I endorse voting. I endorse single payer healthcare, an end to NAFTA.  I endorse after Tuesday forgetting about your team, and supporting the people. I endorse  March 19th being in DC or your town in the streets protesting the War. Who endorsed Joe Lieberman for the primaries against Lamont ? Clinton and Obama. Who supports single payer and ending Nafta? Who in the front runners is saying to protest March 19th against the war?  I endorse it. Wage peace.

Buffenbarger, now *there's* a worthy person to quote. Wasn't there a front page post recently that had him calling Obama supporters some variation of the "New York Times reading, latte-drinking" smear?

The CTV story has been refuted by both the Canadian Embassy and the Obama campaign.  Someone sending a "signal" that campaign statements are not to be taken seriously is not substantial since no statement about future intent has much credibility.  There's nothing certain about the future.

There's no disputing that the "politics of personal destruction" was in full flower during the 2004 election.  Indeed, it's because the candidates were so focused on knocking each other out that the public interest was largely overlooked and the public lost interest in the process. History is evidence.

It is a matter of record that the Bushes and the Clintons and Clark were bankrolled in their initial efforts for the presidency by the same group of people whose nucleus is the Stephens Group in Arkansas with ties to the Rockefellers, Monsanto and various One Worlders who have lost interest in the United Nations, the European Union and even NATO because they've become too democratic in the sense of being responsive to the public interest.  (Their current candidate, btw, is Huckabee).

Trade is a good thing when it involves the exchange of assets that are in surplus for assets that are deficient.  It is a bad thing when it is a front for the acquisition of public assets for private profit--i.e. colonialism without the overt use of military force.  I have found no evidence, so far, that Obama is in the pockets of the Rockefellers.  Jay Rockefeller's support for Obama, which was announced yesterday, strikes me as simply an effort to get off a sinking ship.  Sort of like the unjust steward feathering his nest when he knows he's about to get sacked.

I was initially suspicious of the Obama consultants and would not have been surprised if the campaign had been designed to fail.  But now it seems that was the agenda for the Clinton effort.  Senator Clinton has not been well served and it may just be that's because Bill is, at heart, a misogynist. 

Philanderer has the same root as pedophile.  Neither demonstrates much concern for the well-being of the entity he claims to love. 

Spinning the same story over and over and over doesn't make it true either Linda.

I've spent too much time here.  I'm going to spend my weekend making calls for Obama.  Monday and Tuesday also.

Jo, almost forgot to address this.

you said "in every state she has lost she and Bill and her surrogates have said either that caucuses disenfranchise voters - that don't count or that she didn't 'need' that state, or that state wasn't in her game plan - can you honestly tell me that you've missed this? this week she said TEXAS wasn't a state she had to win - wasn't really in her plan anyway. what a crock of bull!

First of all, you are posting many different comments together and they are not actual correct statements.

She said caucuses disenfrancise voters. I agree. Everyone should have their own vote. Some of the "caucus" were handled like primaries, like here in New Mexico. Others, like Nevada (even though she won by the slimmest of margins) and Iowa, are normal caucuses. And if I remember, Governor Dean agreed with her sentiinments as well.

And if you want to claim that Hillary said "she never needed that state" I'd like to see that.

And on TX, refering to a bloggers interpretation of her actual comment on TX when her exact comment was not that, is not exactly a credible or quotable statement. Hillary said about the GENERAL election, that we don't normally carry Texas that is it. And, do you know that Texas didn't even go to Clinton in 1996? Besides of course 2000 and 2004 and 1992 1988 1984 1980 and 1976. I'd say that's a pretty good comparioson

so now you are impying that the Obama campaign is threatening and intimidating Clinton superdelegates - no one has said that the campaign is at all involved.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jo

here is where you need to "get real", of course super delegates are getting all kinds of pressure from both candidate's camps

and to most the heavy pressure would look like "threats" not of the "I know the route your kid takes home from school" kind, but isn't Rahm on the Obama team and you know he can scare up a primary opponent to take out somebody he doesn't like at the drop of a hat, so the "threat" might be something like "do you have a primary opponent?"

From the link that Linda in NM posted about the black blackers.

Cleaver said he did not believe the Obama campaign was behind the disturbing e-mails and phone calls he has received.

“I refuse to believe that Sen. Obama gave orders for something like this to happen. This is a contradiction of the new politics that Sen. Obama is running on,” he said. “My fear is with all of the nastiness, we’re going to have a whole lot of kissing and making up to do as a party.”

Looks like Cleaver agrees too that Obama is running on new politics.

So Linda with the above statement from Cleaver how can you claim that Obama is running a dirty campaign?  Cleaver doesn't agree with you.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=62619699-3048-5C12-001FF2E54D94FE36

Now I'm really going.

Fortunately for Hillary's superdelegates, I don't see Obama finding some way to "punish" them for not supporting him, should he end up in the White House. Hillary is much more likely to keep score and hold grudges.

11:11 AM EST

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080301/NEWS07/80301019

By NANCY BENAC • ASSOCIATED PRESS • March 1, 2008

WASHINGTON-- A year ago, Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-Inevitable, was joshing about whether she could appoint her husband secretary of state when she became president, and Barack Obama was urging a throng to be realistic about his own chances. "Let's face it," he said. "The novelty's going to wear off."

But a funny thing happened on the way to the Clinton coronation.

...

"I don't think anyone can stop her," John Catsimatidis, a New York businessman and member of Clinton's finance team, trumpeted in February 2007. "She's unstoppable; she's got such a machine."

Clinton, intent on keeping 2000 nominee Al Gore out of the race, seemed to regard all other rivals as "Lilliputians," says Democratic pollster Peter Hart

Her Democratic opponents didn't buy it, though, and neither did the public.

...

in the mega-round of primaries on Super Tuesday, the day that Clinton had once predicted would be the "finish line."

...

Clinton responded by moving the finish line

...

Now Clinton is pinning her hopes on victories Tuesday in Ohio and Texas, where she once led in polls by a wide margin.

...

11:12 AM EST

The goalposts always seem to be moving with the Hillary Clinton campaign.

sm

You have the right idea. make calls

Obama wins Texas and Ohio and this baby is all over but the shouting 

11:15 AM EST

it's 3 AM -- some march to the Fear card, others like Obama and his supporters don't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=879o1_pxO0c

Fortunately for Hillary's superdelegates, I don't see Obama finding some way to "punish" them for not supporting him, should he end up in the White House. Hillary is much more likely to keep score and hold grudges.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Obama comes from the Chicago tradition of politics so it might not be so clear cut; but just on a personality basis what you say is probably true. Both need to be able to play hardball just to go head to head with rove in the fall, and a little practice never hurt anyone (much).

New thread.

11:18 AM EST

Good luck s m.

I'll be doing the same contacting nearby RI voters.

ciao

Well, it may be unfair, but because Republicans like to follow orders, it's logical to conclude that when Republicans voice an opinion it's the opinion of their leaders.  Democrats, on the other hand, are self-directed.  Sometimes they represent shared opinion; sometimes they don't.  As a result, they often appear disjointed.  As a result, the "leaders" can't be held responsible for what their supporters do.

Now, a subcommittee of the Senate has no power to affect our relationship with NATO, especially not when there's an administration that doesn't honor treaties, has written off NATO because the members aren't sufficiently subservient, and doesn't follow legislative directives anyway.

Electing a President is a crap shoot.  Electing a President whose spouse has a history of undermining that person's efforts would be folly.  Remember that the problem with health care isn't that the first effort came to naught, but that it was never attempted again.

Hillary Rodham made a big mistake when she married beneath her, a rube from Arkansas who had some high-flying friends willing to promote the handsome fellow. 

So Linda with the above statement from Cleaver how can you claim that Obama is running a dirty campaign? Cleaver doesn't agree with you.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?u...

Now I'm really going.


LOL......well, I already said so. They are representing and working on behalf of the Obama campaign. And if Obama did not want to be associated or be conducting their campaign this way, he would tell them to stop and denounce what they have been doing. As Obama himself always states if even just "a surrogate" from the other campaign .... or even just a supporter might make a comment that isn't perceived nice by the Obama campaign, it's always associated with the candidate Clinton.

Do we know there's a new thread?

Perceptions are a bitch, aren't they?

Who is the Democratic candidate being perceived as someone who deserves to be the next resident of the Oval Office? Who is running the cleanest campaign? Who is receiving the most positive press?

Yep, perceptions are a bitch.