Thick skins people................thats first in my book.................

Dean is first!

3:45 PM EST

I second "Dean is first!".

... spelling apparently isn't mportant.

Just kiddin'

Love ya'll, mean it!!

3:47 PM EST

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080217/NATION/2992575/0/METRO

By Donald Lambro
February 17, 2008

One of the sharpest tactics in Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign arsenal is to belittle the value of rival Sen. Barack Obama's oratorical skills, an attack strategy that Democratic observers say isn't smart and isn't working.

...

reposting

Deaniac in GA
Sun, 02/17/08


This blog is toooo messed up.

Hope none of the interns actually reference this as an example of their work in the web. LOL

73.

dog soldier
Sun, 02/17/08

...
If Hillary gets the Michigan and Florida…it will be very difficult for me to vote for her. I don't like McCain and his 100 year war rhetoric, but when your only choices are two stinky turds, it is hard to tell the difference between them.
------------

It is the whole point of this entire “Democracy” to leave Americans with “only choices” of “two stinky turds”.

Just only hint, just only hope that Obama MIGHT actually gets outside of that (usually prepared in advance) set of turds, has already caused such an enermouse enthusiasm.

However, are there any reasons for this time around to be any different, and why?
The answer, imo, is “yes”, but ONLY IF People’s pressure to initiate true and necessary changes will remain.

Jeremy Ring D-FL said making Florida "relevant" was more important than "partying" in Denver.  Partying in Denver?  Does he know how important an event that Denver "party" is? He seems clueless to me, but what he did affects the country.  He introduced the bill to move up the primary.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1836

3:57 PM EST

Deaniac in GA -

Georgia did good in voting for Obama.  I'm proud of that state (I got pro-Obama relatives in Atlanta), more proud than of my own state that pulled the lever for Clinton (MA is heavily pro-Clinton, except for the more liberal areas of Boston, the older parts of Cape Cod and the Islands, western MA, especially anti-war areas of Amherst and Northampton, and north shore towns like Newburyport)..

Oh well, Rhode Island primary is coming up on March 4 and we'll see if another Clinton country state will instead give Obama another look and pull an upset by pulling the lever for him.

One of the sharpest tactics in Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign arsenal is to belittle the value of rival Sen. Barack Obama's oratorical skills,<<<<<

An argument of form over substance would be a strategy that any Obama opponent would apply.  I don't think it's working but I can see the strategy.  It isn't below the belt or inappropriate.  Politics is hardball, rd.....toughen up.  Demogoguery, otoh, is a cowardly strategy.

Geese bites. 

calling on Obama to be specific will backfire on Clinton if Obama can make it about the role the people will have in the way business is being done in Washington and Obama calling his plans, specific ideas "but goals we can achieve working together"; or something along those lines

but clearly they are baiting him to make it about the candidate not the people

Geese bites. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

can't top that one

bbl

Hi Deaniac in Georgia! Are you coming to DemocracyFest? It's not to far away from you this year! http://www.democracyfest.net/

Hi Deaniac in Georgia! Are you coming to DemocracyFest? It's not to far away from you this year!

____________________________________________________________________________

if deaniac is as turned off from many here as alot of us are............he aint gonna waste the gas and the trip..................until Obama types can be more civil...............ferget it

Michael Ellis, I have no idear what you're talking about.

4:53 PM EST

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ced8da3e-dd6f-11dc-ad7e-0000779fd2ac.html

By Clive Crook

Published: February 17 2008 18:40

With eight wins out of eight in the most recent contests and another expected on Tuesday in Wisconsin, Barack Obama is for the first time the clear favourite to win the Democratic nomination. His support continues to broaden: beyond the affluent, who liked him from the outset; beyond blacks, who switched wholesale from Hillary Clinton starting in South Carolina; lately even to the white working class and Latinos.

Those are the constituencies that Mrs Clinton is relying on to win the crucial primaries in populous Texas and Ohio on March 4. As that showdown approaches, contrary to Mrs Clinton’s claim to be the better manager, Mr Obama is running a more effective campaign, with more and better organisers in the right places and more and better advertising at the right times. The Clintons thought it would be all over by now: their planning beyond “Super Tuesday” was perfunctory and they are short of money. It is too soon to count Mrs Clinton out. She is nothing if not tenacious. But for the moment, she and her team are scrambling.

As I argued last week, this is good news for the Democrats. Mr Obama is so much the better candidate that I find the party’s hesitation difficult to credit. But I made the case for Mr Obama in terms of vision, temperament and appeal to uncommitted voters

...

Mr Obama is a paradox, as yet unresolved. His plan and his votes in the Senate show that he is a liberal, not a centrist. And he is no wavering or accidental liberal. His ideas are of a piece. He sees – or convinces people that he sees – a bigger picture. And yet this leftist visionary is pragmatic, non-ideological and accommodating of dissent. More than that, in fact, he seems keen to listen to and learn from those who disagree with him. What a strange and beguiling combination this is.

It makes him an electrifying candidate – one the Democrats would be crazy not to nominate – but also, to be sure, a gamble. If Mr Obama is elected, it might turn out that there is no “there” there. Indecision, drift and effete triangulation are one possibility. Equally disappointing would be if the office wore away the pragmatism and open-mindedness, to reveal an inner dogmatist. Perhaps, though, Mr Obama really can transcend Washington’s partisan paralysis

...

Testing the posting sequence based on Monica's theory re. text vs. rich.

Here goes....1.49pm PST

♥

hey, Ironman Mike....don't take it personally and keep posting.
♥ ♥



daily dosing of cod liver oil.

Testing browser theory.

Testing browser theory (IE)

rd,

I'm glad you approve of Georgia, however my vote was earned by Dennis Kucinich.

Hey Jessica!!
I'll definitely think about going, to see my fellow deaniacs - irrespective of whom they support in the primary.

... see #12 above, or below, maybe not #12, who knows


... possibly unknowable. lol

I respectfully propose that we all include the times of our posts. For simplicity, I suggest that we use the EST.

5pm EST



weevils in your oatmeal.

5:13 PM EST

the meeting:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8562.html

Obama visits Edwards

By: Mike Allen
Feb 17, 2008 04:08 PM EST

...

Obama's campaign said in a statement: "Senator Obama visited this morning with John and Elizabeth Edwards at their home in Chapel Hill to discuss the state of the campaign and the pressing issues facing American families."

The ABC affiliate in Raleigh-Durham, WTVD Channel 11, said on its Web site that it will air exclusive video related to the meeting at 6 p.m.

...

25.

Michael wrote: if deaniac is as turned off from many here as alot of us are............he aint gonna waste the gas and the trip..................

Hmmm, maybe I will be able to come to Demfest after all

May your colonoscopy computerized results crash, requiring a redo tomorrow

Has everyone been following the Edwards/Obama watch on KOS, Huff, and elsewhere? Apparently the meeting in Chapel Hill is over. May be something on the 6 o'clock news? ABC? Just madly fueling rumor here.

rdorgan just saw your post - sorry.

6.

One of the sharpest tactics in Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign arsenal is to belittle the value of rival Sen. Barack Obama's oratorical skills,<<<<<

cC

Clinton's strategy has already backfired -- badly -- even her supporters are complaining about that.

But Mrs. Clinton's repeated put-downs of Mr. Obama's speechmaking on the campaign trail have drawn growing criticism from pundits and pollsters — from liberals and conservatives alike.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/NATION/2992575/1002/nation&template=printart

Apparently, Obama and Edwards hugged at the conclusion of the meeting.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/...

19(ish) Deaniac

Good for you voting for Kucinich. I'm definatly leaning Obama (our Primary is March 4th). I don't hate Clinton, but Obama smokes, and us smokers got to stick together ;-)

5:41 EST

Democrats: What Clinton must do to win

By NANCY BENAC, Associated Press WriterSun Feb 17, 2:01 PM ET

Ask a dozen die-hard Democrats around the country what Hillary Rodham Clinton can do to beat Barack Obama and win the presidential nomination and they have plenty of ideas — some of them contradictory.

The question generates strong sentiment, though, that Clinton simply can't compete on charisma, that there are forces at play beyond her control. Going negative could backfire, they warn. Laying out nitty-gritty policy details isn't enough, they say.

There's no shortage of advice, but also no shortage of head-scratching. Add it all up, and there doesn't appear to be a secret plan to save her candidacy.

A sampling of Democratic voices from the field:

_SHOW PASSION: "The challenge for Hillary Clinton is to be seen as an agent of change, to recapture the passion that the people who support her really have for her," says Kari Chisholm, a political consultant in Oregon who blogs at http://www.blueoregon.com. "I'm not sure that I'd want to be in the shoes on her team. ... She's considered the same old, same old, and she's not. But she's having trouble communicating that." Chisholm said Clinton should hit her universal health care message harder, stop using Washington insiders to defend her on cable TV and "find a way to communicate some excitement." Chisholm supported John Edwards, and says he could go either way between Clinton and Obama.

(FROM THE AP)

5:43PM EST
More suggestions/thoughts from Democrats around the country:

IT'S THE ECONOMY. AGAIN: "HRC's firewall must be predicated on message," says Chris Lehane, a political consultant in California and former aide to President Clinton. "She is THE candidate who the public, press and pundits by instinct, temperament and history believe is the best on the economy at the exact time the economy is THE brooding, omnipresent force hovering over both the primary and general electorate." Lehane is backing Clinton.

_GO NEGATIVE: "She needs to come in strong," says Judy Carpenter, a third-grade teacher from Delaware, Ohio, who turned out at a Clinton rally at Ohio State last week. "I don't like vicious attacks. But gosh darn, she needs to call him on some things." Carpenter supports Clinton.

_MAYBE NOT: A candidate goes negative "at great risk," says Mitch Ceasar, the party chairman in Florida's Broward County. "You can alienate people. It's less of a risk for Republicans, because they're better at it and everybody expects it from them." Clinton, he says, should "talk about the distinctions" between herself and Obama on the issues .

_DEFINITELY NOT: Going negative "positively would be the absolutely wrong thing to do," says Ed Treacy, a former county party chairman in Indiana. "Democrats do not want to see them fighting at all. ... I'm not sure what she can do. So much of it is his momentum." Treacy hasn't endorsed a candidate.

_THE FORCE: "The most important thing is that the force is with Obama," says Glenn Browder, a former Alabama congressman and now professor emeritus at Jacksonville State University. "The election seems to be moving in his favor, and I don't believe that issues have much to do with it right now. It's not as if she could all of a sudden start pointing this or that out about his positions or his votes, and that would change things very much. He is a movement that goes beyond issues." Going negative could backfire on Clinton, Browder says, but it might help if the media or independent groups took on Obama. Browder is neutral in the race.

_REMEMBER IRAQ: "If she could come up with a more specific war plan," says Marcia Mainord, president of Texas Democratic Women. "That's what I hear people talking about. Who's going to end the war." Mainord is personally supporting Clinton but hasn't made a formal endorsement.

_BE YOURSELF: "She's a very engaging, very warm person if she lets that side of her be seen," says Warren Tolman, a former Massachusetts state senator. "There's a very warm, compassionate side that isn't often enough seen." Three things Clinton should do, according to Tolman: "Be yourself. Show compassion. Look like she's having fun." Tolman has endorsed Obama.

5:45 pm est

_READY TO DELIVER: "There is a narrative to be told that she hasn't quite put all together," says Tom Swan, who directs a citizen action group in Connecticut. "But she's close, on health care and her experience and her scars make her the one who can deliver now." Swan voted in the Connecticut primary but hasn't publicly endorsed anyone.

_GRASS-ROOTS ORGANIZE: "I am obsessive about precinct-based organizing," says Michael Dukakis, the 1988 Democratic nominee who lost to George H.W. Bush. "We've got to get serious about this stuff. It's not just money and media." Dukakis, teaching a course this winter at UCLA, says Obama has done more local organizing than Clinton. He adds that neither candidate should be faulted for failing to do much of it in Ohio and Texas, which vote March 4, because no one thought the nomination race would extend beyond Super Tuesday. Dukakis hasn't endorsed a candidate.

_STEADY AS SHE GOES: "You've got a strategy, stick with the strategy," says Jim Crog, a longtime party operative in Florida. "Ride it and make it work. One of the most detrimental things a campaign can be involved in is a what-if campaign: What if we do this? What if we do that? You'll be literally bouncing around the room and off the walls." Crog hasn't endorsed a candidate.

Last of suggestions for Hillary from Dems across the country:

_McCAIN FACTOR: "She's got to convince Democrats that, contrary to what the polls now show, that in the end she's going to be a better candidate against John McCain," says Garry South, a longtime Democratic operative in California. Can she still win the nomination? "Unfortunately, I don't think there is a secret formula," says South. "There comes a time when the worm turns, when the momentum shift is clear. And when that sort of thing happens, there just aren't a lot of options for the candidate who is trailing at that point." South hasn't endorsed a candidate.



Ciao for now, all.

Apparently, Obama and Edwards hugged at the conclusion of the meeting.------------

Whew, glad to know THAT!;0

5:47 PM EST

Annilow -

The fact that Obama and Edwards have met, is most encouraging.  I like them both.

Hi,

Just stopping by to natter.  cChalfonte, I hesitated over saying there was no cult worship for Gore,  I well remember the "Gore Wears Superman Pajamas" meme, though I think cult means blindness, means a kind of addictive following.  Even there I didn't really see that.

And, if the only comments about Obama had been to question if he was ready for the experience, that's legitimate.  There were bunches of other kinds of comments.  Chameleon  comes to mind.  There were all kinds of nasty ones, and if that doesn't bother people, so be it.  I think many of us would have been angered had those same comments been made about Howard Dean.

I guess what I don't get is the need to belittle and disparage.  I don't see that happening to people who supported different candidates.  Why the need to belittle, demean, make, in my estimation, ugly comments?

I'll be interested to see what if any collaboration comes about between Edwards and Obama.  We've all pretty much noted that we had a very talented lineup of candidates, and no one  can begin to do it all.  After the incompetence of the Bush Administratiaon, and the longest experience in governmentof any administration ever with Rumsfield, Colin Powell, and Cheney, we've seen one disaster after another. The talent that a Democratic administration could bring is desperately needed, and Dodd, Biden, Richardson, Edwards, Carol Mosely Brawn, Kucinich, Gravel, etc. and lots of others with diplomatic, economic, bureaucratic, scientific, educational and other kinds of expertise could make this an outstanding renewal of our infrastructure, relationships with the world, and a realistic presentation to the American people who have to begin to take responsibility for the 31 years of deficit spending, for the lack of foreward thinking and accountability.  

So, I have no dislike of people on this blog, but I am disgusted with the meanness that has been exhibited ever since Obama became the viable competition for Hillary Clinton.   

Just a thought, has anyone contacted headquarters directly about the corrupted software on this blog?  I gather there's no monitor anymore.  Are we all members of DFA?  I received a phone call a couple of nights ago to renew and told them I had already done that. 

Pat wrote....Some of those here would have been angry if those comments had been made about Howard Dean.

Pat, you just got through saying that Howard had a temper. Not just an observation, but in politics is considered a slur. I don't think you really know what you say sometimes.

Yes, he has a temper.  That doesn't disqualify him.  He showed evidence of his temper.  That doesn't belittle him.

Slur is in the mind of the beholder, obviously from your remark.  Howard's temper worked against him, just as probably every candidate has flaws that work against them.  It's simply a fact.

What I'm objecting to is the name calling, the nasty comments.  I don't think you know how to think, Audrey, and that's too bad.   

Pat wrote.....audrey, I don't think you know how to think. A perfect example. Well, Pat, I do manage to think once in a while, and I do think that any effort to communicate is useless.

Maybe we can agree to try to elect Obama, because he's no McCain and he's no Hillary, and let that be good enough for now. Be glad for that.

I can live with that.  I don't think anyone ever said people had to vote for a certain candidate, had to to be in love with a candidate, had to refuse to consider any criticism.  I think that all that's asked is honesty, fairness, and common sense. 

No, I really don't know how you think, if at all, Audrey, from your remarks.  But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt , and maybe you'll give me and some others the benefit of the doubt. 

Pat....

Now you don't know if I think at all? You ARE a charmer.

7:35 PM EST

http://news.scotsman.com/world/The-war-of-the-wristbands.3786708.jp

• Published Date: 18 February 2008
• Source: The Scotsman
• Location: Scotland

8:05 PM EST

fyi - new Front thread