Dean is first if that's okay.

More then okay, it's fabulous!

LOL about switching position of comments (which will probably change as soon as I post this).

Clinton:  Play with fire and you can get burned.

Gov. Dean has officially accepted our invitation to the 5th Annual DemocracyFest.

W00T! W00T! Yay! Yay!! Yay!!!

http://www.democracyfest.net/

(Gov. Dean's speech will be free and open to the public.)

Indy wrote "Every time I start to warm up to Obama, I start to get skittish with the true believer cult quality of his supporters."

Come on, Steve, you're resisting.  You've got to feel the Obama wave wash over you.  Give in to its power.  That's right.  Release your inhibition; you're too tense.  You're a bundle of nerves. Obama will take care of us.  Everything will be fine. 

jjem wrote "Gov. Dean has officially accepted our invitation to the 5th Annual DemocracyFest."

Very nice work, Jessica.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 02/12/08

Won't....give...in...yet!

seriously, the number one domestic policy issue is health care. Not the economy, because the gov't. can't do a great deal about that. But health care it can. And that will have an impact on the economy and affect millions of lives.

Obama's Health care plan is the weakest of the three. And Clinton has the experience in working a health care plan (even though it was unsuccessful). Requiring everyone to enter the insurance pool is essential to bringing down rates and lowering the subsidies necessary so we can finance it.

Obama/Dodd

So called progressive pimpin does not agree with me. Bring the troops home..

good thing I bought my Deanfest ticket before they sell out

wOOt!!!

Isn't Obama still scheduled to meet with Edwards about health care?

...From the Right 

Early Exit Poll Data For Tonight

Early exit poll data for tonight...

In Maryland, McCain 57 percent, Huckabee 31 percent.

In Virginia, the second wave of data shows an extremely close race, less than a percentage point between McCain and Huckabee.

But I warn you, at this point, or even a little later a week ago, the data was saying McCain and Romney were tied in Arizona, and McCain won comfortably.

No word on the Democrats yet, and no word on D.C....

Hi Indy,

A post on Obama's health care plan from a couple of days ago.  As I understood it, the cost control woutd apply to all the competing insurance companies.  Can you point out the salient differences in the programs?

Obama wrote his book in 2005, copyright 2006. 

Some principles of his health care plan:

He says that we should be able to provide basic coverage to every single American.

We have to contain costs for the entire system including Medicare and Medicaid.

With the frequency that Americans change jobs, the system must be portable.

The market alone can't solve it because when people need health services, they don't have the time to go shopping, and the market isn't interested in those who can't pay..

There must be strong incentives for improved quality, prevention, and efficient delivery of care.

A nonpartisan group like the National Academy of Science's Institute of Medicine could determine what a basic, high quality health-care plan should look like and how much it should cost.

They would design a model plan emphasizing coverage of primary care, prevention, catastrophic care, and management of chronic conditions like asthma and diabetes.

Prevention and management of disease could dramatically improve patient outcomes.

Anyone could purchase the model health-care plan like the one set up for federal employees or through a series of new pools in every state.  Private insurers would compete to provide coverage , but the plans they offer would have to meet the criteria for quality and cost controls set forth by IOM (Insititue of Medicine).

Electronic records and error reporting systems would cut costs by 10 percent at a mimimum.

Increased preventive care, lower administrative and malpractice costs, and subsidies for low-income families and  mandated coverage for all children would benefit from the savings.

Tax breaks for employers for offering plans to their employees and executive plans and their tax breaks would be examined.

Hi Chuck!

Pat

The essential difference is a mandate (think Social Security without one).

Pat

"The market alone can't solve it"  comes right from the book excerpt you posted, so what do you do with the uninclined?

Massachusetts has mandatory health insurance also and hasn't figured out what to do with those who refuse to buy it.

Having mandates without a means to deal with those who refuse to comply is worse then nothing at all. Obama saw mandates as something not enforceable. Hillary latches on to madates as a reason her plan is better but it is a hollow victory.
Obama understands folks have to have an encentive to do buy insurance because it wil make their lives better. Both aid those in financial straits. Hillary is designing another government heavy program which is what killed her last health care effort.
Hillary needs to put a leash on Bubba and go away.

s/b 19 and will end up about 13
6:06 pm EST

dang

I hate being stuck at the bottom by myself, I'm not picking on you Pat but on issue after issue there are no specific differences it is more about leadership style and character.

Obama has the drivers license for immigrants right and Hillary has the better health care plan IMHO

Obama voted right on FISA and scored big points with me today 

Obama is giving away a negotiating point on health care before they even get to the "table".

he is advocating a first step that is not unlike what Howard Dean said would be his first step six years and seven million more uninsured ago

 this is the primary can't we be bold, are we that afraid of rove and harry and louise

what would Social Security be without it being mandated?

Hillary shouldn't be the nominee for a whole host of reasons but her health care stand isn't one of them. Five out of eight Iowans stood with a candidate with a universal health care plan. 

Charlie Grapski just confirmed for DemocracyFest!

The only way the SS mandate works is by payroll deductions and compliance by employers. There is a cost for non-conformance.
As an employer, you can be fined for back taxes for you and your employees and you can go to jail. If cash only people don't pay, they can be fined. There is a cost and the system works reasonably well.

What is the non-compliance cost if Joe Sixpack decides not to buy health insurance. If he draws a paycheck, it can be handled like SS. Are employers going to have to install an addition to their payroll systems to add medical insurance deductions? That is the cleanest and easiest way to do it.
Is it going to be a percentage of gross wages up to a certain amount? Will my employer decide to drop my health insurance even if the one offered is inferior? Is this still an insurance company rip-off?

Is this how Hillary will do it? She hasn't mentioned it yet. If not then there is no other method.

Hey Jessica, I just bought two tickets. See ya there!!

Let me know if I can help. I am good at that, for sure.

Use DFALINK.

Are employers going to have to install an addition to their payroll systems to add medical insurance deductions? That is the cleanest and easiest way to do it
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We do it right now with the Medicare portion, the bookwork would be the same.

I do not agree with the idea of allowing illegals to get drivers licenses unless drivers licenses are no longer proper forms of ID.
In most states, a drivers license implies legality to live here. If you are here illegally then you should not get something that implies you are here legally.
The better idea is to bring illegals into the system. Make it easy, systematic and the carrot is a possibility of a drivers license.

28,
Phil,
I agree exaxtly which implies a federal system not operated by the health insurance industry.
This is not what Hillary wants. This is what Edwards wanted. hillary wants a system in place where the insurance company dictates the rules. In fact, both of them do except Obama's isn't "mandated".

The Democrats are lucky McCain won the nomination after all the hate Romey , and Dobbs have generated against immigrants theree is no difference between any of them

I want to share the road with people that have proven that they can drive and their status is less important.

Illegals shouldn't be driving. Make it easier to get everyone into the system and they can have the benefits of driving.
The only way allowing illegals to drive legally is to make driver licenses as legal id no longer possible.
If you have to show id then a driver's license is not valid. Use something else.

agree exaxtly which implies a federal system not operated by the health insurance industry.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

or a federally collected pool of money for one of the pools

Phil I agree - I'd rather have everyone tested fully and licensed, no matter what their status. I'm also a proponent of everyone getting road and vision tested every 5 years, no matter how good their driving records.

linda b at somewhere around #18

Thanks! If you'd like to email the DemocracyFest link to any local people you know, so they can get the early bird ticket price, that would be great! http://www.democracyfest.net/

Susan Rowe set up DemocracyFest on DFA-Link here: http://www.dfalink.com/event.php?id=2796...

Signing up there is obviously not the same as buying a ticket, but it's cool to have a public attendance list if people want to see who else is coming...and it can be cross-linked as an event to other DFA Groups.

Obama will take care of us.  Everything will be fine.

Who knows? Maybe he'll be offered a job in th McCain Aministration.........

Illegals shouldn't be driving.

But they do.

Let me see if I understand Hillary madated insurance plan.
Let's supose I like my BCBS insurance so I pay my $500.00 month like a car payment as I am self-employed. I make the check out to the federal government similar to paying my quarterly obligations to the federal government. For this, I get my family insurance card.
The easiest way is to pay my quarterly stipend to the government and then just go to the doctor. No card, no insurance carrier, no nothing. I need medical attention, I go to the doctor; any doctor, the doctor sends the bill to the government and the bill gets paid.
If folks are worried about SS, then everyone can get a MD number.
If there is a middle-person involved then costs go up. There can be no such thing as pre-existing conditions because our fee is based on a percentage of wages; not on insurablilty.

This is the only thing that works.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 02/12/08
____________________________________________________________________________

Good God!  Im glad you stopped when you did Thomas.............I really felt the next sentence to Indy would be "buy the new Sports Illustrated" swim suit edition..............find the nearest bath room and.............and .....................

dog soldier

yes the Edwards plan was the best

so now we fight to get the second best

why we have primaries and Obama will regret pulling out harry and louise against Hillary before Texas and Ohio

I appreciate the discussion on health insurance.  My concern is that the health insurance companies are all about profits.  How do you control costs?

From Obama's book, the IOM would set the costs and standards, and private insurance companies would have to comply.  

It doesn't matter to me whether it's government mandated or not, what I think is the cost and waste.  I recall reading or watching a program that talked about how the insurance companies spend 30 percent on marketing , paperwork, and researching ways to deny claims.  From my own experience, that seems to be true.

 The other thing is for-profit hospitals that charge several thousands of dollars for a couple of nights' stay.  

The whole thing seems as skewed, greed bloated as  are so many of our corporations.

The drug part of Medicare, again when the government can't compete in prices, there's no control.  The market won't do it, according to Obama, and I'd have to say that sounds true to me also.

As I understood HIllary's plan of mandating insurance, the cost would come our of people's paychecks.  Dog Soldier, you arguemnts sound reasonable to me.

Again, no problem if the government creates a pool and controls costs.  It's the out-of-sight costs and health company greed that I feel is so destructive.

But, honestly, I hate reading about insurance, ask my husband to read  our policies, the writing is so dreadful.  Thank  heavens I could be an English teacher and didn't have to spend my life reading that awful stuff.  

Quick comment, my husband remarked that whatever the results of the nomination and election, Hillary is a catalyst and to be appreciated for proving that a woman could run a viable and strong campaign. That whoever follows her can be grateful for her trailblazing, much like Obama is the recipient of Howard Dean's grassroots, Internet campaign.  Nice thought, I think, 

Five out of eight Iowans stood with a candidate with a universal health care plan.  

5 out of 8 were just there for the pizza. 

Printable version

Parliament statement

The Australian government has made a formal apology for the past wrongs inflicted by successive governments on the indigenous Aboriginal population.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

will America ever?

Obama projected to win VA the instant the polls closed.

Isn't Obama still scheduled to meet with Edwards about health care?

By the time a meeting occurs there won't be much point in it.

Obama will regret pulling out harry and louise against Hillary before Texas and Ohio

Nobody but Phil seems to care. 

Thanks! If you'd like to email the DemocracyFest link to any local people you know, so they can get the early bird ticket price, that would be great! http://www.democracyfest.net/

~~~~~~~~~

Charlie and Howard

better sign up quick before they are gone

my ticket will be a needs based scholarship if I end up headed for Denver

Jeezus, they just called Virginia for Obama.

How did they do that??

Most the networks have called Va. for Obama.

EXIT POLLS SHOW 2:1 OBAMA LEAD OVER HILLARY IN VA AND MD, 3:1 IN DC... DEVELOPING...
HUCKABEE GIVES MCCAIN RUN IN VA: EXITS... 

It's curious how Obama is running away with a close contest and McCain can't secure a runaway one. 

Nobody but Phil seems to care. 

~~~~~~~~~

with the screwed up blog you might think that; but the exchange between Pat, Indy, dog soldier and I proved otherwise

but Wisconsin could be another blow out for Obama putting any further discussion of issues on ice until the fall

Long time no see, BFA ... I've barely had time to check & respond to email. None for news items lately ... and I've caught up on most things political through the blog threads since my last visit, although a few political things did make their way into the routine.

*******
Wasn't doing anything terribly fun or exciting, with a few great exceptions, mostly just busy with lots of home improvement projects as well as neighborly doings because my time on this side of The Pond will come to an end soon.

*******
It looks like Obama clearly has the *mo,* so congrats to him and his supporters. My husband and I split on voting venues; he opted to vote in MD and I cast my ballot in the Dem Abroad Global Primary. His description of voting (he went about midday) was approximately the same as Rich's except there was one Obama supporter with a sign, even though there were lots of other candidate signs. There were no huge lines and he was back at home after about 20 minutes.

If I resided in Montgomery County, I would have voted the MD ballot, if only to vote for Donna Edwards. The Global Primary limited my voting options to the candidates for President only.

good to see you Charles you're it on the bottom, I'm going to go finish moving the last of today's seven inches

Obama is coming into Madtown and the local press is getting pretty excited

Charles does Baucus have an opponent?

Obama is coming into Madtown and the local press is getting pretty excited

<

Bong hits for Obama!

Baucus has no contender.

7"? 53 degrees in balmy Mt.

What a blow out. I enjoy watching Pat Buchanan stuttering about the whites supporting Barack. LOL

----------------
Utter humiliation for Clinton but I guess these states don't count -- only the big ones do - about 18 states in all. Howard's 50 state strategy is a winner.

Folks, FYI for going forward:

I run into fear from Clinton supporters who see the race going to Obama.  They want someone who can accomplish something and see Hillary as the one.  They understand the enthusiasm for Barack, but...

~~Can we keep the party together?

The exceptions to the routine:

last Friday night ... the 30th annual Irish Music & Poetry Evening attended by 400+ Irish descendants or wannabees at which Irish poet Eavan Boland read some of her recent poems. She was introduced by the Irish Ambassador to the US, Michael Collins, who, together with Bertie Aherne, Tony Blair and the US Special Envoy George Mitchell implemented, the peace process in Northern Ireland, and who described a bit of what happened when. They were followed by a local Irish band and some great step dancers.

During the intermission, my husband introduced me to some of the local Dem politicians who were Irish for the evening. Because he spends more time on This Side than I do, he is quite active in local events and his efforts are greatly appreciated.

********
Saturday night, we hosted our closest neighbors to a home-cooked Moroccan dinner, in part to thank them for keeping an eye on the house while we are gallivanting and also to get to know them a bit since I am so often not here. One woman is an expert quilter who teaches courses at the Smithsonian; her spouse travels quite a bit on engineering projects. The other couple consisted of an Irish-American married to a Taiwanese national. He works as a Chinese translator. It was very interesting and the people are lovely ... all now planning visits to Switzerland.

*********
Visited my number one son and his wife at their weekend house on the Chesapeake (this is a mixed marriage politically; she is not only a Republican but actually was a staffer for two Republican Senators; he is his mother's son). While we were enjoying some massive steaks, the doorbell rang and it was an Obama campaign volunteer. This was an encouraging sign that Obama really does have organization everywhere; this particular area is not generally a hotbed of Democratic support even though MD is a *blue* state.

*********
Then, early this morning, we had a delivery of some items that we had purchased as part of the home improvement projects. The deliverymen were two African-American men and, after I had signed for the delivery, one asked, "Who are you going to vote for today: Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama?" When I said that I was really torn because I thought that both were good candidates, his response was, "I think that it would be great if one ran for President and the other for Vice President."

Now I know that there are a lot of people here who do not agree with that, as evidenced by the posts on a previous thread, but I am just the messenger.

Evidently, they are holding the MD polls open for an extra 90 minutes.

CNN has called VA for Obama.

Anni, I'm with you in the corner.  Please keep posting that link....neighbor spying on neighbor, with shooting privileges.  The horse race is drawing attention away from all this.

BO voted correctly today but, like Indy, it's really hard to warm up to him...there's just something very detached about him, for all his fancy words and ringing passion.   I don't like egging on crowds, who become more mindless by the minute.

He's in danger of thinking of himself as the messiah of the moment. 

Since there's almost no difference between them in policy, it'll come down to trust, experience, gut feeling or whatever.

Dodd ... what can I say?  He's doing what neither BO or HC will or have done.  He's a patriot.. Who are they?  As senators did they ever filibuster?  Vote to shut down funding?

***************** 

Stewart, last night , had on a man who was talking about 9/11 and that rascal bushie, Zeilikow.  I think it might be wise to start paying more attention to some of the things Daniel brings over.

While ya'll are Kumbaying, we're losing our freedoms hourly.  And neither BO nor HC are mentioning it. To my knowledge..today.

Hi all.  Breaking news from AP:  Obama wins in VA.

 n the Democratic contest in Virginia, preliminary exit poll results indicated that Obama not only won 9 in 10 African-Americans, but split white voters with Hillary Clinton. That came on the strength of his support from white men, who favored him by more than a 10-point margin. Obama has won or tied Clinton among white men in 12 previous contests for which we have exit poll results, and in seven of them, won the race. (The four he lost include California and Arizona, where Hispanics made the difference for Clinton. In Virginia, Hispanic voters were far fewer in number.)

Blacks accounted for nearly three in 10 voters in Virginia, perhaps slightly down from their 33 percent share in 2004  it'll take final exit poll data to say for sure. Obama's support from African-Americans in the state was at or near his highest in any primary this year.

Obama also was helped by independents, who made up a fifth of voters in Virginia's open primary. Clinton won white Democrats by nearly a 20-point margin, but white independents went even more broadly to Obama.

And as elsewhere the "change" theme was powerful for Obama: More than half of Democratic voters in Virginia said the top attribute they were seeking in a candidate is the one who can "bring needed change," and those "change" voters favored Obama by a 5-1 margin. He also won the two in 10 voters most concerned either with empathy  "cares about people like me"  or electability in November, by 2-1 margins. He's won voters most concerned with electability by this kind of margin just once before - in his home state of Illinois.

Here is one thing of interest that I received in my email in-box that gives me hope that perhaps there WILL be some justice.

If this has been posted before, sorry, I must have missed it in my skim-through.

I am keeping my fingers crossed in the very great hope that this will go somewhere.

=================
Conyers Considers Cheney Impeachment Hearings

On Thursday, Chairman John Conyers' House Judiciary Committee held a hearing at which Attorney General Michael Mukasey said that he would not investigate torture or warrantless spying, he would not enforce contempt citations, and he would treat Justice Department opinions as providing immunity for crimes.

None of this was new, but perhaps it touched something in Conyers that had not been touched before. Following the hearing, he and two staffers met for over an hour with two members of Code Pink and discussed activism and impeachment, including Congressman Robert Wexler's proposal to begin impeachment hearings on Cheney.

Conyers expressed his concerns about what might happen following an impeachment, the danger of installing a Bush replacement or losing an election. But he said he's listening to several advocates for impeachment, including Liz Holtzman and David Swanson of Democrats.com. He hinted he could be swayed by a convincing argument, leaning out of his chair for dramatic effect.

[...]

The email came from www.democrats.com (NOT the DNC).

And oh, do I hope that Conyers will do it! Take impeachment off the table since the AG will NOT do anything to uphold the laws of the land.

Paine!!!!!!!  Paine!  Paine!!!!!!!! Obama wins Virginia................southern bigots at it again eh?

Results well ahead of the networks for VA

http://www.sbe.state.va.us/cms/Index.html 

Nasty freezing rain tonight in Northern VA and Maryland has led a judge to extend Maryland voting 90 minutes.  Lots of accidents on the roads as I was driving home.

Another thing, MANY more votes on the Democratic side.  It bodes well for November.

One of the NYTimes Op-ed columnists used the following phrase today:

Clinton restoration

John McCain 57,596 47.48% Precincts Reporting:
    982 of 2,472 (39.72%)

8:00 pm 

Hm, that didn't work.  I'll type it in

McCain  47.4

Huckabee 44.3

41 percent of precincts reporting

8:02 

Barack is 2-0 tonight - DC just called for him.

new thread

http://blogforamerica.com/view/23867#com...

I hope BO realizes that JE supporters are going to be forced to vote for him...that he doesn't quite have all the support that he may think he has...that had the CM not done to JE what it did to HD, things could be very different.

The party is split - he has no mandate.

Is there a debate coming up? 

I would like to see both unequal sums of money AND huge crowds taken out of all campaigns.   Crowd mentality and all.......

The CM does have one thing right....it was talking about the lemming effect.  Sad, very sad.  We all now what happens to lemmings.......

HC's health care plan is the better one. 

Move over, Anni.  :-) 

The title of this thread should alarm all of us.  We are being shut down, folks, while the illusion is that we're heading for change. 

http://blogforamerica.com/view/23867#comments

it's new. 

Please fix the blog, HQ. 

Hey, cC. I appreciated your posts several threads back. I hadn't seen that article before. While I do not agree with all of the author's points, there were several that were right on.

I am a 64-year old woman. Throughout my life, I have had just about every role that a woman can: daughter, granddaughter, sister, niece, wife, daugher-in-law, aunt, sister-in-law, single mother, stepmother, mother-in-law, grandmother, stepgrandmother, etc. Career-wise, I have worked as a babysitter, harvest cook, waitress, secretary, salesgirl (sorry, but that was the term then), switchboard operator, Peace Corps Volunteer (where I taught English in a high school and crafts at a women's community center), teacher (all levels: elementary through university and adult education); international development worker, and international official.

I have seen sexism up close and personal and I recognize it. I am sorry that not all do. I do NOT consider myself a victim. I do consider myself a survivor ... and a winner, in spite of all. And I'm not finished yet.

The sexist slurs against Hillary were not necessary. But they were tolerated and indeed perpetrated. There were many reasons NOT to vote for her, but the sexist slurs do leave a bad taste for many.

That is something that I hope that Obama remembers in his quest for victory. Paine has the right of it.

Phil Specht
Tue, 02/12/08

Good point...and making Soc. Security voluntary is called privatization, and it would destroy the system which is based upon EVERYONE paying in and everyone being entitled to something when they retire. Health care ought to be the same.

If we're going to compromise by not going with single payer, we need to draw the line at EVERYONE chipping in and everyone getting some benefit.

Nobody but Phil seems to care. 

~~~~~~~~~

with the screwed up blog you might think that; but the exchange between Pat, Indy, dog soldier and I proved otherwise

I meant about the ad that is already ancient history. 

Tom, loved your sixie!!

And why the hell do I have to sign in on a Tuesday, after it's being years of Friday?