Eight Ball says "Dean is first."

236.
LZ XRAY
Sat, 01/26/08
 

I suggest folks start calling their Senators about leaving the elderly out of the stimulus package.

If our own Senator Nelson does not do this on his own, he is done for in my retirement-rich state, and good riddance. I know many people will can certainly use the money, but personally, I think the whole stimulus package is an insult to all.

Throwing the middle class and poor of this country a bone to jump-start the entire economy, chiefly the stock market, is truly sad. So many desparate people who can't even feed their families because they have no jobs.

Jobs and job training, not just a check, are what is needed if the government were really serious about getting the economy back on track. And an extension of unemployment benefits are needed for those long out of work. Food stamps would be used immediately.

If this isn't included in this "stimulus package," it isn't going to help in the long haul. This administration and Congress know that.

The checks will come in July, the spending will be tabulated by the administration in late October and they will declare it a success for the November general election. But the jump-start will not last into the next Democratic presidency, which will be stuck with a ten trillion dollar debt to pay and a stock market still stuck in neutral or reverse.

Morning all ;-)

Good work, David Reiter!

Almost ready to leave for listener's :-)

11:59 am est

Edwards, on his health plan from NYT. DU.
"We're going to take our sINGLE PAYER plan right through the front door".

A plan that offers a choice of Gov't or private insurance. Since Medicare cost of operating is 2% and private ins. around 30%, the free market would soon make it a single payer plan.

This is a plan that could be brought in the front door. Brilliant.

Morning Folks,

#2 Joan, excellent post.  

I am thinking that not only the insecurity/loss of jobs, the subprime lending, the house speculation, but especially the refinancing and taking out equity to support an unsustainable life style are all part of the problem.

It seems to me there was an ethos for at least ten years that credit was cheap, consuming was great (we deserve it!), and for equity to sit was not the best use of money.  All an eating-your-seed-corn kind of thinking.  

Now that the US doesn't sustain the world with our economy, other countries will be less likely to keep our securities to hold us up.  That old American independence and pragmatism needs to step up.  Someone said that Americans don't like handouts.  They just need the opportunities and resources to do it themselves.  I'd agree with that.

All in all, I think we're in for some shaking up.  I personally don't like this giveaway, didn't like it in 2001.  It won't change the long term prognosis , and there's something out of balance in being a consumer society.  

Again, terrific post, Joan. Thanks. 

#4, Hi Audrey,

Sounds like a great plan.  How will Edwards get it through Congress, though?  If he can, what a triumph and benefit for all of us. 

About the only thing getting really stimulated about this plan is anger.

Through the front door. Brilliant indeed.

Later...

♥'s to all

Kindness is free!

12:22 pm est

Medicare is already the biggest payor in this country when it comes to healthcare. There is a reason they only run at 2% - their reimbursement is much lower than private insurance.

I'm not saying this isn't a good plan, but the devil really is in the details. We know what a debacle Part D has been for prescriptions. In the private sector they are handled by PBM's (pharmacy benefit managers like Caremark, Medco, etc) I'm not just talking about mail order - your local Walgreens, CVS, etc contract with them as well.

But as we all know, it will be a godsend to anyone with no insurance. If John's giving a choice it's a good thing.

6.  "Freeing" the equity people had tied up in their homes was a strategy that was argued for and supported by the removal of the capital gains tax on homes owned for just two years in the early '90s.  Much of our economic 'growth' has been manfactured by getting people to acquire stuff they didn't need and, if they needed it, was made so shoddily that it doesn't last (refrigerators and stoves come to mind).  The only real growth has been in our landfills and out dumps.

Though I can't prove it, the only people who benefit from this constant fiddling with the tax rates are accountants and software developers who have to "tweak" programs to figure the new rates out.  /snark/ 

Oh and of course, if there is choice, it's not single payer which does away with insurance companies altogether.

BREAKING: HRC collapsing nationally. For all you poll junkies. Obviously, take with a grain of salt. Puts a chink in her armor though.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1...

Money talks. The leading candidates have raised the most money, mainly from big donors who want something for their money.

The hypocrisy of the 2 leading candidates over the issue of public financing is staggering.

And the Sheeple don't seem to care.

The 2% refers to the cost of processing claims.  It has nothing to do with how much they remit to the care provider. 

The whole system is broken because everybody's trying to figure out how to jiggle the numbers to come out even at the end of the year.

SOCIALIZE THE FUNDING--PRIVATIZE THE CARE

Such a system, btw, would fold in work related injury costs, as well as the victims of auto accidents and transfer government providers such as the VA and DoD over to the private sector, except in active conflict areas.

It will get through Congress, if we elect the right people.  The whole House is up, you know. 

Hi again,

I don't know anything at all about finance or how health care plans work, Denise, but I know you do.  One thing that might have helped this whole situation is regulation.  Colorado has an insurance commission, and they do their job.  

I had two tests that my insurance company wouldn't pay for. They said they were out of network; however, the medical center where the doctor, in network, praciticed was in the same building they said was out of network.

Letters to the medical center, the doctor, the insurance commission, and the insurance company resulted in the insurance company paying for them.  Insurance companies don't like to have to deal with the insurance commission, to have complaints filed.  

Also, medical care like everything else isn't free.  Most of us will have to contribute to our own care. What I think is so problematical is the huge increase in costs and profits. An over night stay in the hospital can result in thousands of dollars.  And, with the health industry as the largest and most far reaching industry in this country, there are so many interests and groups to deal with.

I'd add this as well: Americans have always been concerned with diet, nutrition, and health.  Many tests are not necessary, and there are people who would argue that vitamins don't do much either.  Maybe we need a truth commission on health. 

Blog still jumpy.

Perhaps people may still want to purchase insurance for purely elective procedures such as tummy tucks, face lifts and nose jobs, just so they'll be covered in case the first try goes awry. 

Pat - great post. I know a good amount how all of this works, from both ends of the coin. What you did to get reimbursed should not have to happen. My employer is self insured and is we have problems, we just go to HR and they intervene.

I have to run to the airport or I'd write more. Suffice to say, though it would benefit everyone to have a single payer, our reimbursements would be much lower than we are used to at the moment with private insurance. But we know that in order for the good for the whole, some of us will need to sacrifice. I'm OK with that.

Mary vb thanks for the good news out the front door for me!

Something that bothers me greatly is that insurance companies take from the general treasury.  For instance, instead of Medicare, people can choose other private plans, and these companies get a bigger subsidy from the federal government than the cost of Medicare for each individual.

The companies tease customers with low premiums or even none, and then they raise the costs of premiums, doubling, tripling, etc.  So, just like vouchers in education, companies are taking from the general fund to finance their operations and make huge profits.  

Until Congress and the public stop this raiding of our treasury, we will endanger the stability of our country.  There are all kinds of companies that see our treasury as something to raid, and many have gotten away with it.  Hence our deficit and crumbling infrastructure.

Isn't it interesting that we can't provide extended benefits for those who've lost their jobs, can't pass SCHIP to insure children's health care, can't provide help for those on social security who are unable to pay their heating bills or choose between food and medication.  Yet, we can subsidize health insurance/drug companies as they make bigger and bigger profits. 

Good grief. 

The blog is posting comments one right after another.  It definitely looks like I'm hogging the blog.  So off for a while. 

While walking down the street one day a US senator is tragically hit
by a truck and dies.

His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.

"Welcome to heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems
there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts,
you see, so we're not sure what to do with you."

"No problem, just let me in," says the man.
"Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is
have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose
where to spend eternity."

"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven," says the
senator.
"I'm sorry, but we have our rules."

And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down,
down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle
of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in
front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked
with him.

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him,
Shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while
getting Rich at the expense of the people.

They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and
champagne.

Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a
good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time
that before he realizes it, it is time to go.

Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator
rises...

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St.
Peter is waiting for him.

"Now it's time to visit heaven."

So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls
moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a
good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and
St. Peter returns.

"Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now
choose your eternity."

The senator reflects for a minute, then he answers: "Well, I would
Never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I
think I would be better off in hell."

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down
to hell.

Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren
land covered with waste and garbage.
He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and
putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.

The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. "I
don't understand," stammers the senator. "Yesterday I was here and
there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar,
drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a
wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What
happened?"

The devil looks at him, smiles and says, "Yesterday we were
campaigning. Today you voted."

Pat ....15

I'm not sure. I think Edwards' having dealt with Corporations in the courtroom would be an asset.

Also, he has said that you can't get these things done by inviting the Corp. to sit at the table and write the bills. I believe he might call in the experts, doctors etc., write up the plan, and take it to congress, while at the same time using the "bully pulpit. The plan also denies the Ins. Cos to refuse anyone coverage for any reason. So, they couldn't "dump" the risky one's off on the gov't.

15.

Pat, Back at you. Excellent information there. Krugman has been writing and predicting about the subprime mortgages for at least a year, others also.

I am not an economic wizard:) But in simple terms it seems as if with the mortgage/credit loan problems, the huge trade deficits, the huge debt, the disparity between those that have more than they need and those that have absolutely nothing, including jobs, inflation, recession, the war, etc. that we are in for a long, rough ride.

The Bush Administration has made sure to hand it all off to a new administration.

NAOMI WOLF ON OUR DARLING DEMOCRATS

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/its-time-to-hold-democra_b_83322.html

Like many of us, after having watched helplessly as the Bush administration trampled the Constitution and made a mockery of checks and balances over the course of five bitter years, I was hopeful when the American people elected a Democratic Congress in November of 2006. Finally, I imagined, we would have a whiff of legality and the hint of a restoration of the rule of law in the land. Perhaps we would even have congressional committees to oversee the administration's subversions of the rule of law and investigate the wide range of abuses that it had perpetrated since 2001.

There has been a bit of movement -- And yet, where it counts most, Democratic leaders in Congress have completely abdicated their constitutional oversight role. What they are doing now reprises the worst failures of other self-paralyzed Parliaments in societies that were facing crackdowns on civil liberties and the rule of law, and their voluntary self-emasculation may go down in history as one of those turning points at which leaders cave shamefully to transformative pressure that leaves a country far less than its founded ideal. Through their actions, they are potentially causing irreparable harm to the institution of Congress itself.

Guess what? In America, Congress is not supposed to be tied up and left for dead as potential criminals walk away with impunity. Within weeks, the few brave members of the House Judiciary Committee who were apparently still sentient and still aware of their role as Americans appropriately passed a criminal contempt resolution against both Bolten and Miers.

It was then in the hands of Democratic leaders in the House to bring the resolution to the floor for a vote.

Since then, the citizens of this High Noon scenario have been hiding under the bar stools as the black hats swagger through the nation's abandoned thoroughfare, and chaparral rolls through the streets. Democratic leaders are hiding from the call of destiny and offering nothing but delays and excuses to avoid producing any semblance of cojones.

So let me get this straight. The Democrats in Congress cannot even get their own members together to defend the Constitution against a supremely unpopular executive who has essentially spit in their faces, eaten their lunch and the nation's, and publicly called them out as powerless. Not to mention the fact that they are setting a precedent for the future that any executive can emasculate any Congress and defy any subpoena after having committed possibly any crime. Still they are trembling under the barstools -- summoning up, perhaps, the courage to crawl out fully prone and toss their untouched guns humbly at the feet of the posse.

Tell your representative to move forward with contempt. And if your representatives fail to act, the punishment should not just be removal from office in the next election; they should also be subject to investigations themselves -- for abetting crimes against the Constitution.

Contempt is at issue, indeed.

An interesting talk by an author Alan Weisman, about his book "A World Without Us" this morning on C_span2 this morning.

Mostly it deals with how nature replenishes,and life goes on in some form.

He said he hadn't intended, but he added a chapter at the end relating to the most important thing that needs to be done about global warming is to begin limiting worldwide, a one child per family plan.

Weisman said that though there might be some religious objections to such a plan, that in Italy, the seat of catholicism, has the lowest birthrate, but there is also the highest rate of women with PHDs. Therein lies the solution.

1:35 pm

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

NO BLOG CLOCK AND THEY'RE STILL SCRAMBLING POSTS

My last, which is currently 19, was posted 2 minutes ago.

Well I'll be torn tonight -- CSPAN or TLC (Miss America) :~)
Also -- this morning on CSPAN Robb was pimping SOTU coverage on Monday and said that Richard Norton Smith would be there for the 'pre-game show.' LOL

Everyone go up to the top and send a 'contact' note for 'blog technical support' and ask that they please tell us what's going on and when/if they will fix it. Maybe if they get enuf nastygrams they will respond. bb in awhile.

Let just see where this ends up.  As I write, Joan (#26) refers to Pat(#15), and the time in the eastern US is 01:44

I've been advocating for a one child per family for many years.  And a nice stipend for women/families who have no children.  It has not been a popular view, even at times here on the blog.  I've also suggested that women, especially low income women, be given yearly stipends to  NOT have children.  Of course, that goes along with good safe birth control, which the crazed fundis are against.

Failing this, we'll eventually need to begin voluntary REVERSIBLE vasectomies and tubals at gov't expense for the poor.  

It would prolly end or greatly curtail the necessity for abortions.

We are still living under the "go and populate the earth" mantra from the OT.  Sad and stupid.

Ann, where's that "contact note" thing to click?

Try clicking on this, sea!

Oops, here...

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/contact

My new nick-name for Pat in Colorado is Blog hog.

http://iguessimfloating.blogspot.com/2008/01/thursdays-and-covers.html

[MP3] David Byrne - Ex Guru

Tschau.

Lunch?  Yes, please. 

Thanks, Paine.

Apologies if this article has already been posted

---

Close contest could make Edwards kingmaker By: Ben Smith

John Edwards has said he’s in the Democratic primary to win it. He’s also said he’s planning on staying in “through the convention.” And while those two statements may sound more or less the same, they’re not.

Because while Edwards would like to be on the stage accepting his party’s nomination, there may be another role for him at the convention: Kingmaker.

The prospect of a vigorous, three-way contest across some 22 states on Feb. 5, suggested by polling and by the swerving momentum of the two early votes, is raising the distinct possibility that the primary process could return to its roots as a nuts-and-bolts battle for delegates to the August Democratic National Convention in Denver.

The leading Democratic campaigns have all begun to focus on delegates — the prize awarded in primaries and caucuses. ...full article: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/010...

And more about Edwards rise......

FOCUS | Scott Galindez: Edwards Rising in South Carolina
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012608Y.shtml
Truthout's Scott Galindez reports from Columbia, South Carolina: "Senators Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama have been stealing the headlines all week with what John Edwards calls petty bickering. Edwards is opening his stump speeches in South Carolina by claiming that he represents the 'adult wing of the Democratic Party.' According to the latest polls, more and more voters in South Carolina are agreeing with Edwards."

27. Pat - keep posting! I'm enjoying your posts (as always) and Joan's as well.

One of the methods the government uses to prime the economic pump is deficit spending.
During the '30s, WPA and CCC got people working and spending money. There weren't enough projects to get a lot of folks working until WWII.
The problem with deficit spending is a little is great, a lot isn't very good. The more that is spent, the less benefit is gives. In other words, the dollar to benefit ratio gets less.

The reason auto jobs are desired is each job generates from 4 to 7 new additional jobs (depending who you read). A service industry job generates less then 1 additional new job. That is why manufacturing really drives the wheels of commerce. Service industries jobs not only pay less, they generate less new jobs.

As far as insurance companies denying claims...
The first rule of insurance medical claims is to deny every claim the first time and hope the person never comes back for a while.

I posted #35 at 2:58 EST

mary vb, I enjoy all the posts from BO supporters, not just the ones from JE supporters.  So please, you too, keep posting.  Joan and Pat too.  Just becuz we're supporting different cands. doesn't mean we can't enjoy each others' posts....or be friendly. 

This divisiveness on the blog is not healthy. (not referring to you)

so one of my favorite posters got stuck in the server groove

my kids could never understand how something could be a skipping record (is that like skipping rocks?)but vinyl got that way if it was your favorite 45

so now Pat is bloggies favorite 45, quite an honor, to have paine call you blog hog, kind of llike a howardly, which Pat should have gotten for that LTE to the Times

we are truly blessed here to have the gammet (sp?) of posters we have here

wonder if Judy talked Hipster Dufus into posting

45?  I'm still at 42.

12:10 pm left coast 

my wife is 39 but only because she remembers Jack Benny on the radio

Do we know there is a new thread?

also

34. The contact thingie is in white on blue to the right of the 4 little tabbies at the top.

But Paine's link is easier.

I saw Red Skeleton perform live and had a stack of 45s I'm still kind of amazed that I can click on paine and sound pops out on either side of me, hey boomers we had a good run, I could live with Obama being the guy that moves us on

the sweet shop used to sell 45's and we'd race from school when the shipment came in back in junior high, and the bring them to the sock hop

the argument in Milwaukee is whether or not to put a statue of the Fonz downtown (seriously very controversial)

If you really want to get the blog fixed, talk to the boss -- Jim Dean.

fyi - new Front thread

  Interesting to see who finances our candidates. The amount of money it takes to be elected President is obscene! Are elections won, or really just bought? The best Government money can buy. After seeing the list of who donates to the Clinton campaign, I'm more convinced than ever she's really a closet Republican. I'm impressed that Edwards accepts no PAC money. Very commendable.