I suppose you've heard that Dean is first.

What would Tom Saenz say about DLC New Dem co-founder, TIm Roemer of Indiana and 9/11 fame, endorsing Obama today. Makes me wonder if Evan Bayh is far behind?

The DLC is starting to play both front-runners in hope of hedging their bets. Obama didn't distance himself from this endorsement

There is, of course, a third choice, and he has the same last name as the progressive candidate in MD-04 (Donna Edwards)

The DLC is starting to play both front-runners in hope of hedging their bets. Obama didn't distance himself from this endorsement

Ordinary people don't care about these endorsements. It's just politicians jumping on the bandwagon that they think offers the best possibilities for their own advancment. 

Found linked on Huffpost:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesm...

Says ABC's reportage of a dustup with Obama was quite exaggerated. Video is here. Decide for yourself. Are there really 2 g's in exaggerated?

ABC News Badly Mischaracterizes Obama's Alleged "Testy Exchange" With Reporter
January 23, 2008 -- 10:28 AM EST

Sitka
Wed, 01/23/08

True...it's inside baseball. But do we care? Are we all about electing AOD now (Any Old Dem)?

Does it mean anything to have the co-founder of the DLC New Dems endorse Obama?

Does this play into Clinton's "fairy tale" attack on obama not being a real progressive?

We are a knowledge political community so it seems fitting to discuss it. It is alarming to me since I know Tim (he's a great guy but just Conservative).

I think Sitka has it right Indy Steve. Obama is the front runner right now and the likes of Roemer and the DLC are trying to gain themselves from the association, and if you really are a big tent guy like Obama you let them, heck he wants everyone to unite, that leaves a crack for the DLC to slither in.

I think you have to let someone with serious national security credentials inside the circle, better yet two others with differing views, so that when all three reach a concensus you pay attention. Tim Roemer could work as the conservative of such a group. I don't consider him as dishonest, just a little politically misguided..

Here's what puzzles me.  Obama didn't help found or join any congressional wing of the DLC. He didn't cosponsor a bill granting, or vote in favor of, war authority for the president.  Edwards did those things, yet Edwards supporters cut him slack for distancing himself from his own actions, and give grief to Obama for receiving support from people they wish to claim are affiliated or aligned with the DLC. 

You obviously understand that Obama can't atone for or disavow such things the way Edwards can, because he didn't do them.  Edwards gains an indulgence with his apology for his lapses of judgment, but Obama can't get a break for perceived injuries he is not responsible for in any way.  I can't follow the criticial thought process.

Tom wrote:  You obviously understand that Obama can't atone for or disavow such things the way Edwards can, because he didn't do them

No, of course not, Edwards has taken responsibility for his own votes, so should Obama try to accept responsibility for his own, but he hasn't yet, always makes excuses.  When you bring up his votes, example, not voting [we had a deal/that's how we do it in Chicago] voting no to cap interest rates [I would have liked it lower than 30 pct (WHAT?)/ well, we didn't talk about it first), he consistently voted to keep the war going and fund it for the 2 years after elected on opposing the war [they are distoring my record].

The people who aren't his followers see and hear that.

I'm not endorsing anyone who endorses any candidate, nor drawing any conclusions about the candidates based on it. I seem to remember not being too impressed with a few who jumped on Dean's wagon when it was riding high. It's just a game pols play with each other.

Blog was broke good that time.

Edwards' chief economic advisor is on the Newshour opposite some heritage foundation guy that sounds just like our Fox

Was the DFA and BFA server down for awhile ?

I couldn't access until now.

rdorgan

me agreeing with sitka must have broken the blog, lol, i got all my feeding done while it was broke and didn't miss a thing 

It seems like a lot of African Americans are pissed off at the Billary tag team for attacking Obama, especially in South Carolina.

Judgement Day is this Sat 1/26.

the blog jumping though is still a constant reminder of the good ole BFA blog quirks

Joe Stiglitz is the economist Edwards listens to. He makes sense to me too.

And we're back.  Have you noticed the schedule for the training academies?

you have to have been a long time user of this blog to suffer through the quirks, but losing the clock was supposed to end the jumping around and did for a while 6:18 CST now

It should be on the side of your link group.

Seattle, WA Feb 23-24



Mar. 1-2

East Bay, CA



Mar. 8-9

Birmingham, AL



Mar. 15-16

Dallas, TX



Mar. 29-30

Oklahoma City, OK



Apr. 5-6

San Diego, CA



Apr. 12-13

Charleston, SC



Apr. 26-17

Somerset, NJ



May 3-4

Rochester, NY



May 10-11

Cincinnati, OH



May 17-18

Missoula, MT



May 31-June 1

Pittsburgh, PA



June 7-8

Lansing, MI



June 14-15

Kansas City, MO



June 21-22

Albuquerque, NM



July 12-13

Miami, FL



July 17-20

Netroots Nation



July 26-27

Milwaukee, WI



Aug. 2-3

DFA Grassroots All-star



Aug. 27-30

DNC Convention

 

10. I think some are hedging their bets as to who they think will win. Front runners....Well, like Molly Ivins I always seem to pick a candidate who doesn't win the election. But I do hold out hope for Obama. Bill is getting more and more unbalanced.

As a diarist at Kos noted: Where was the anger over the war, wiretapping, etc over the past eight years?

The time is now 7:23 EST

James Fallows explains the Chinese banking relationship with our Government quite well too, a very informative Newshour tonight

This is very dangerous. They messed up the Republican Party and America so badly that they now want Democrats? Let them stay in the Republican Party and clean up their messes. The Democratic Party has enough DINO's in it.


---


...Like in the case of Westchester republicans who want to make a career in politics are giving up registering as republicans and registering in the democratic party as their ticket to get into elected office.

In some cases they are just switching party lines in the middle of their tenure. ...

want Democrats s/b want to be Democrats

14.

Is Bill becoming unplugged (unglued, unbalanced) ?

At the end of the exchange, Clinton told the CNN reporter, "Shame on you."

Fact Check: Obama strong on choice

Check out these videos featuring Lorna Brett Howard, the former President of Chicago NOW (National Organization of Women).

In this video, Lorna describes why she went from being a Clinton supporter to a strong Obama supporter, in the wake of Clinton's misleading attacks on Obama's record on choice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuMYKs8iJs&eurl=http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hqblog

In this video, Lorna describes how Senator Obama was a critical advocate in the fight to preserve choice in South Dakota...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILVLzbBcs8A&eurl=http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hqblog

young people who have initially registered as independents and who are now switching registration is a very different group and is why I like the prospect of a three person race for many weeks to come because they all have a different appeal and for different reasons expand the party

DINOs are a very small part of the voter switch

Selective browser syndrome.  Opera not working.  Dodd has started on the floor of the Senate.

Makeover1.jpg Makeover2.jpg

from end of last broken thread....wow, what a roll I'm on.  :-)

The Clintons will take down BO along with the party.  The rancor continues and eventually the voters may tire and turn towards JE.  IMO

What I think right now is this:  To save the party and to prevent HC from winning and to prevent the Clintons from dragging BO into the dirt with them, BO and JE need to NOW band together or do so right after super Tues.  Neither has the foreign policy experience I like but maybe Richardson and Dodd and Biden and the other good people could greatly help out.

I'd rather see BO as VP, then see him having to defend himself down in the slime and I really don't see it getting any better.  Hillary's fix is in to be prez.  He can run for the prez and I wish him well, but he'll be in the mud...and in the end, I think both HC and BO will lose, along with the party.  As VP, BO can move into the WH in 8 years, more seasoned and hopefully more progressive.

If something doesn't happen to unite them, we'll have a McC prez and the end to America.

Just my 2 cents.

The Greenville News endorses Barack Obama in Democratic primary
Obama could help nation face its challenges

In this race to capture to the Democratic Party?s nomination, Obama makes the most compelling case for his nomination when he describes the differences between himself and Sen. Clinton. She is more comfortable with the "Washington lobby culture," he told our editorial board, and as seen in the failed health-care campaign in 1993, she is comfortable operating behind closed doors and trying to demonize her opponents.

Obama?s approach to governing would be based on openness, inclusiveness and transparency. That approach would serve our country well. ?

http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080123/NEWS01/80123028

Just a drive-by...busy tonight...but wanted to say that maybe anyone can make a difference if they just get involved.

I mentioned last year how terrible Vermont's meal & break laws were...some of the most lax and vague in the nation which were abused where my wife previously worked. I started the wheels in motion, worked with my Representative and he has sponsored a bill that has been introduced this legislative session.

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/docs/legdoc.c...

We've got our fingers crossed that it becomes law. This is pretty exciting to me.

The Rock Hill Herald (SC) Endorses Barack Obama

We think he was right; his candidacy is ideally suited for this point in the nation’s history. Obama, more than any other candidate in either party, has based his campaign on the promise of positive change in Washington and an effort to heal the caustic partisan rift that divides not only the nation’s capital but also much of the nation.

The promise of change is nothing unique in the rhetoric of the stump. But we think Obama brings both a unique biography and an impressive set of skills to this campaign.

Obama, son of a black father from Kenya and a white mother from Kansas, is the first African-American to contend seriously for the presidency. As a child, he lived for four years in predominantly Muslim Indonesia before moving with his mother to Hawaii. And after graduating from Columbia University in 1983, he deferred the pursuit of a career to work as a community organizer for a church-based group in the poor neighborhoods of Chicago.

http://www.heraldonline.com/opinions/story/313508.html

A lot of excitement today with the news starting to peak of Al Gore's latest 2 video's he uploaded.  Most notable attention to the Gay rights that advocates marriage I posted yesterday.  Here is a great article that just appeared on Huff Post.

Why Al Gore is Not President

Posted January 23, 2008 | 05:27 PM (EST)

Just posted and got bumped all the way back to 20...sheesh!

Glad I'm busy tonight...blog is wee bit too jumpy for me...good luck to the ones sticking it out here.

Chris Dodd is writing a epilogue to JFK's book Profiles in Courage

the blog is jumping again and might go down so I'll post my last thought before I get something to eat

Chris Dodd strikes me as a guy who could sit down in the Oval Office and function very well as President at a moment's notice making him ideal VP material.

comment on billary.........does bill clinton really enjoy such a huge reserve of affection from democrats that he can do anything to attack his wife's leading opponent and get away with it?  even when he was facing impeachment [actually, a bloodless coup attempt by the right-wingers] and most of the dems rallied behind him, one group did not--it was the founding organization of moveon.org....'censure and move on.'  they didn't approve of bill's antics then, and i'm quite certain not now.

happy monicagate! 

comment on billary.........does bill clinton really enjoy such a huge reserve of affection from democrats that he can do anything to attack his wife's leading opponent and get away with it?  even when he was facing impeachment [actually, a bloodless coup attempt by the right-wingers] and most of the dems rallied behind him, one group did not--it was the founding organization of moveon.org....'censure and move on.'  they didn't approve of bill's antics then, and i'm quite certain not now.

happy monicagate! 

comment on billary.........does bill clinton really enjoy such a huge reserve of affection from democrats that he can do anything to attack his wife's leading opponent and get away with it?  even when he was facing impeachment [actually, a bloodless coup attempt by the right-wingers] and most of the dems rallied behind him, one group did not--it was the founding organization of moveon.org....'censure and move on.'  they didn't approve of bill's antics then, and i'm quite certain not now.

happy monicagate! 

what's the problem with the server??

I think I just heard Keithie saying that JE will be on tonight.

It appears related to the AllStar Voting results update IT.

Good morning I guess!

It's 6:08 on Thursday. I must say I like Edwards idea for the economic crisis more than the other two. He wants to green USA thereby creating jobs, etc, which I've been saying for a long time. This is looking like Iowa in 2004 when Howard and Daschle destroyed each other and Kerry and Edwards came out smelling like a rose.

It's nice to have the blog back.

I hope JudyforDean reports on her big evening.

6:10 Thursday morning. ET

there appears to be a stuck sub routine in the candidate photos page
better check the vote custody chain as well

Annilow it is still habging up so may quit at any time.

Judy must have been frustrated to not be able to report, she need to keep notes of immpressions so she can share when it is working

35 below wind chill here so my concern turns to the animals anyway
bbl

OK Phil - on my screen the blue bars are bouncing around so some must have 'blown borders' as we used to say. I guess I'll come back later. Bummer.

35 below is unbelievable -- I'll send warm vibes.

Scr*w Bush/Cheney. Impeach Reid/Pelosi.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/23/...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/23/...

Dodd '08?

What happened to his fillibuster? I do not really understand these things.

This is the most exreme winter we have had in decades, which is forecast in the global warming models as the switch flips in the South Pacific.
Bad news is it signals a widespread drought in the midwest as well for next summer

Good idea

Quote

Harry Reid, having let the Republicans hold up every legislative proposal the Democrats wanted with purely "paper" filibusters, has now decreed that if Chris Dodd wants to stop the telecom-amnesty bill he's going to have to mount a "live" filibuster. What would happen if Barack Obama announced Saturday night, or even tomorrow, that he was going to fly directly from his South Carolina victory celebration back to DC to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Dodd against executive-branch lawlessness? (Obama, like Clinton, is already on record supporting Dodd against the Cheney-Reid axis.)

Yes, that would take him off the campaign trail for a while. But I bet he could get more, and more favorable, free media from the Senate floor than he could from the tarmac somewhere in California. And it would leave HRC with the option of joining him — making Obama look like the leader and HRC the follower — or remaining on the campaign trail herself, dramatically illustrating the difference between patriotic leadership and raw ambition.

Looks to me like a plan with a big upside and a small downside.

unquote

January 23, 2008

Obama and the telecom amnesty bill
Posted by Mark Kleiman



http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campai...

6:38 AM on Thursday

I guess it's more fun playing in the sandbox by myself than not playing in the sandbox at all.

Good idea

Quote

Harry Reid, having let the Republicans hold up every legislative proposal the Democrats wanted with purely "paper" filibusters, has now decreed that if Chris Dodd wants to stop the telecom-amnesty bill he's going to have to mount a "live" filibuster. What would happen if Barack Obama announced Saturday night, or even tomorrow, that he was going to fly directly from his South Carolina victory celebration back to DC to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Dodd against executive-branch lawlessness? (Obama, like Clinton, is already on record supporting Dodd against the Cheney-Reid axis.)

Yes, that would take him off the campaign trail for a while. But I bet he could get more, and more favorable, free media from the Senate floor than he could from the tarmac somewhere in California. And it would leave HRC with the option of joining him — making Obama look like the leader and HRC the follower — or remaining on the campaign trail herself, dramatically illustrating the difference between patriotic leadership and raw ambition.

Looks to me like a plan with a big upside and a small downside.

unquote

January 23, 2008

Obama and the telecom amnesty bill
Posted by Mark Kleiman



http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campai...

6:38 AM on Thursday

I guess it's more fun playing in the sandbox by myself than not playing in the sandbox at all.

Corporate Dems appear ready to roll over on the stimulus package as well.

Sorry for the double post.

Phil - our weather world sounds like Biblical times. The water thing is the scariest of all but I feel so for the animals - both domestic and wild.

I can't believe Reid is rolling over on FISA but I guess anything to get the (bad) stimulus package through -- why give out a pittance of a 'rebate' using nonexistent money????? And those too poor to pay taxes who really need it won't even get it I guess.

what does it say to Obama students of his Constitutional Law classes if he doesn't rise in defense of the Constitution on the Senate Floor?

I've been waiting for a definitive speech against the bushco abuses for a long time from the Professor.

it looks like a third party is involved in verifying email addresses for the all star voting which means a hack or a vendor problem
DFA needs to hire Tea Time Tim

58. I hate to blame it on the interns, but I'll blame it on the interns.

58. I agree it would be great of BO went to DC and helped Dodd.

ten day forecast now shows a spring storm moving out of the plains and dumping a foot and a half of snow on Sun Prairie Phil so no shadow here comes spring lol

the turkey and deer have moved back into my cowyard Annilow
yesterday the drama was a sparrow nailed by a hawk right in front of me and I'm amazed at how the hunter used the screen of my machine to block the approach

reminds me of cows freaking out over hot air balloons and somewhere eons ago being a species fearing a predator from the skies

the barn cats too are using the hypothermia of the small birds that don't fly up from the feed room floor because it saves energy to huddle there and make a smorgsboard chain corn bird cat and a coyote doing some cat hunting I saw by moonlight

Wow Phil -- you really ought to write a book you know.

7AM EST
01/24/08

Well Phil - I'm gonna go watch Wash Journal a few minutes and get ready for busy day - 2 day classes and a 3 hour 'PC Fundamentals' in the Comm Ed program tonight. These are folks who never saw a mouse before.

bbl

Hi and Bye Painie. TaTa Phil.

working out in nature is the appeal for most farmers

Hi Annilow and Phil,

It's been cold here too, the coldest December and January in a long time, maybe 10 years or more.

I think your proposal, Annilow, for Obama to go back and stand with Dodd is intrigueing.  It might make a huge difference for him as well as for us.  I think Obama's oratory and belief in a new paradigm of negotiation is inspiring, but I also think that the more specific he gets, the more people will resonate with his message.

I also like Edwards' Green Scheme, a 2008 WPA.  I don't think it's healthy to just dump money into the system.  The housing crash wasn't just the subprime lenders; it was also the mantra to take equity out of houses and spend it, to speculate because of the rise in prices, and the construction companies hiring illegals to build the houses and pocketing more profits for owners, hedge funders, and developers.  There are always consequences for extremes of greed and irresponsibility.

The one thing that seems to be obvious is that the Clinton machine is fighting dirty, seems to be willing to do anything to hang onto power.  I'm sorry to see Obama get besmirched by this because he is an extraordinary leader.

There's an essay on the Huffington Post this morning that talks about the truly brilliant and visionary leadership Al Gore has demonstrated and says that if Gore had run, he would have been "Roved/Clintoned" as is occurring now.  Talk about destroying the best among us.

Still if Edwards or Obama is to be the candidate, somehow he has to be able to master and control the process with respect to convincing the American public he can lead, has integrity, is worthy of our trust, and can inspire us to be a united country in our values of freedom, equality, justice, and the common good. 

The Clintons haven't laid a glove on Obama but did sucker him into putting on shorts and gloves and enter a boxing ring when his message is that he is above fighting.

58. I agree it would be great of BO went to DC and helped Dodd.

+++

Annilow -

Please put yourself in Barack's shoes for a moment -- if you were being attacked 24/7 by the most powerful duo tag team in America -- would you have time to get thee to Washington DC ? 

The most dangerous IMO is if the dem nomination goes to Hillary and we got McCain on the other side.

Not great choices IMO.

Please think about it.

Hi Phil,

Reading several articles about this, it sounds like Obama finally was convinced that if he didn't respond, he would be viewed as weak as Kerry was for not responding to the Swiftboating.

I don't know what the answer is to this kind of attack, and it's still going on.  I guess, if I had to make the decision, I would defend and raise questions as opposed to attacking back. For instance, Obama said that while he was working to organize people and fight for opportunities and civil rights, Hillary was sitting on the Board of Walmart.  He might have suggested instead that his record was doing this and it should be compared with the other candidates and then he might have directed the audience to his website or a comparison.

Don't know quite how this will all work out.  I do sense that John Edwards is benefiting from this, and he seems to radiate confidence.  Truly, may the best candidate win. 

Zogby this morning

39
24
19

For Obama, Hill, Edwards

Both BO and Hill are down from yesterday and Edwards is up by 4.

rd - I still think it's a good idea -- shows courage, etc, etc, etc.

Gotta go!!!!!

Be well blorgie (guess that's blog and borg lol)

Bill Clinton =s Lee Atwater ?

(remember what Lee Atwater did against the Dukakas for president campaign in 1988 ?)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/clinton.obama/index.html?section=cnn_latest#cnnSTCText

"Shame on you !"

Former President Bill Clinton responds to a reporter who asked him about criticism from the Obama campaign.

(CNN) -- A prominent supporter of Sen. Barack Obama on Wednesday compared Bill Clinton's appeals for his wife, Sen. Hillary Clinton, in South Carolina to the tactics used by a former Republican strategist that are infamous within Democratic circles.

...

In an interview with CNN, Dick Harpootlian, a former chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party and an Obama backer, said some of Clinton's recent remarks on the campaign trail were appeals based on race and gender, meant to "suppress the vote, demoralize voters and distort the record."

Harpootlian said the remarks were "reminiscent of Lee Atwater," a hard-hitting Republican strategist who worked for Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush and whose tactics were reviled by many Democrats.

...

When CNN's Jessica Yellin asked Clinton about Harpootlian's comments, Clinton disputed the charge and lashed out, saying: "You live for this.

...

The former president's angry response comes just days before the South's first Democratic contest on Saturday

...

The former president has attacked Obama in recent days

...

CNN political analyst Gloria Borger said the Clintons "know exactly what they are doing."

"This may be a very smart political strategy for them. They've gotten Obama a little bit off his game right now because he's busy responding to Bill Clinton, and that's not what he wanted to be doing," Borger said.

working out in nature is the appeal for most farmers
>
My Ma grew up on a farm in Lake Wobegon
she was an only child, so when she wanted to play of "do something," her mother told her, "go lay on your back and watch the clouds."

Zogby this morning

39
24
19

For Obama, Hill, Edwards

...

+++

Annilow -

Good news about Edwards (I hope he pulls ahead of Clinton on Sat 1/26).

BTW I would like to see as much pressure here on this blog applied to Hillary to get thee to Washington DC as there is pressure to get Barack there. (after all she's a sitting U.S. senator too)

Study hard Annilow, and report back to us on "how to use a mouse."

I want a contest that tests their souls because the office they seek does and may the person who radiates goodness be the nominee.

I actually still believe there even is a Hillary behind her armor and that garbage team she is stuck with, that has that wish for the well being of others inside of her. The other two do.

to me anytime it is about the candidate instead of the country it is disqualifying

My response to Bill Clinton ? --

-- is to echo his own words back at him: "Shame on you !"

Hi rdorgan,

You make a good point.  Tough calls.  I liked the idea of Obama's Truth Squad, turning the attacks over to a group of people who will respond quickly and leave the candidate above the fray.

Another thought about FISA and not being able to sue the telephone companies.  Tough call.  The major companies could go under if everyone sued probably.  

It's a little like the impeachment issue. Without question, there have been high crimes and misdemeanors.  But, it wasn't possible to achieve impeachment with the small majorities; it could well have further divided the country when 70 percent of Republicans still support Bush, and 30 percent of the country does.  

The resulting polarizatiaon might have repercussions for the 2008 election.

And, the argument that because we didn't impeach Bush and Cheney, we've allowed the crimes and have set a precedent for the next administration (Randi Rhodes on Countdown last night) is also true and very disturbing.  

Reading in Newsweek an excerpt on a Book called The Tragedy of Bush or a title similar to that, the most dangerous person is Cheney, and to leave him alone in the office of the Presidency would be ( in my opinion) the country committing suicide. 

Bill Clinton
almost everyone spins-off on what president Clinton says or does.
Bill Clinton is relevant.

rdorgan

do you trust Clinton to make the right vote? I trust Obama that he would, this is one case where we just need to get to forty, but they have to vote

The Chamber of Congress has wanted Corporate Immunity for decades. That vote shouldn't be close for a Democratic Senator to decide Pat.

Spinoff

~Something, such as a product, that is derived from something larger and more or less unrelated; a byproduct.

~Something derived from an earlier work, such as a television show starring a character who had a popular minor role in another show.

The most loyal demographic group to vote consistently democrat, are African Americans.

IMO Bill and Hill are so possessed with gaining the White House (to complete off Bill's unfinished work), that they will disenfranchise, ostracize the most loyal democrats in America.  The AAs are starting to move enmasse to Obama's side because they have figured out Who Let the Dogs Out.

Real swift team Billary.

a six layer return to nature time bbl

#77, me too, Phil.  I want an inspirational leader, an honest person, someone who will put the country above ego and power, someone tough enough, skilled enough, and principaled enough to do what's best.

I think the dirty politics and pundits and all that kind of thing just obfuscates the characters of the candidates.  It creates a melodrama and smokescreen.

Frankly, Hillary Clinton having Terry McAuliffe, James Carville, and other DLC hacks as her campaign consultants says worlds to me.  They behaved the same way in 2004. 

All I know is that Mike Dukakas did NOT respond in time to Lee Atwater's attacks.

Ditto John Kerry did NOT respond in time to Swiftboaters attacks.

Umhhh, not responding is not a great track record to emulate.

the issue is the limit of liability ...  it would destroy the Insurance Industry if no one was liable for their actions. If you want to worry about an industry Pat   ..... do damage, just walk away, no problem?

BTW, Phil is your eye better this morning ?  (it will be a full recovery right ?)

I want an inspirational leader, an honest person, someone who will put the country above ego and power, someone tough enough, skilled enough, and principaled enough to do what's best.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You will be in Edwards camp yet.

Umhhh, not responding is not a great track record to emulate
>
So, all this back and forth between the two campaigns is creating new pathways, like a growing embryo.

So, good points @87, *r.

#82, true Phil, and in many respects they've had it.  I'm thinking specifically about the spying.  Qwest was the only company to refuse.  This whole thing is an example of corporate and government collusion. 

But, when we mandate an action, what are the possible consequences?  That's where I'd like to hear diverse viewpoints and future scenarios.  Sometimes I think that it's too easy to give a solution that fits an ideology.  That certainly hasn't worked for our foreign policy, nor domestically, nor for our infrastructure.

By the way, the latest is that the federal government with respect to the Forest Service, The BLM, and National Parks is divesting itself of firefighting since it consumes 40 percent of their budget.  It's a little like the Block Grants thing, where a bunch of money is given to communities, and the feds divest themselves of any responsibilty, Ah, the Healthy Forests Initiative.

What's so devastating is that this ideologically driven administration just goes right ahead and vetoes, ignores, or circumvents the political process. 

89.

* rdorgan
>
I'd like to know, too, Phil? Hope you're recovering to near perfect (your natural state).

#88, No, I wouldn't want that, to destroy the insurance industry, but I also think there are real abuses.

Again, just a short article.  Almost 50 percent of births now are by Caesarean section.  The hospitals and doctors fear liability.  I had heard this was occurring 20 years ago.

For everything we do, there are consequences, and some of the most devastating can occur with the best intentions.  

But, I'm revealing my cautious nature.  I've seen that extremes, sometimes what looks as clear as crystal turn out muddy and snarled.  I guess it's that old "eternal vigilance thing". 

http://thephoenix.com/article_ektid55013.aspx

Thanks to its heavy Democratic leanings, Massachusetts is the fifth-richest delegate prize on Super Tuesday for that party’s candidates, with a total of 121 — 93 of whom will be chosen by the voters that day. (The others are un-pledged “superdelegates.”)

And given Clinton’s home-field advantage in New York and New Jersey, and Obama’s in Illinois, Massachusetts can be viewed as second only to California among February 5 battleground states for the Democratic contenders.

...

The state is supposed to be locked down tight for Clinton; local political observers say she’s a heavy favorite to win. The former first couple is enormously popular here, both among the rank-and-file Democrats who still pine for the Golden ’90s, and among the elite FOBs (Friends of Bill) who have spent many a summer afternoon sipping chardonnay with the Clintons on Martha’s Vineyard.

But there is something strangely familiar about the situation. Almost the entire state’s Democratic establishment is on one side. Polls have long shown Clinton well ahead of her competition, including a recent State House News poll showing Clinton leading Obama 37 percent to 25 percent, and a WBZ/SurveyUSA poll showing an even wider margin, with Clinton ahead 56 to 23.

Running against this establishment candidate is a relative unknown, a black man touting a message of hope and change, calling on young idealists to rise up in a grassroots effort.

Nobody around here forgets that Deval Patrick swiped the gubernatorial nomination from the establishment-backed Tom Reilly. And given the stakes, Obama can hardly afford to lose the Bay State. As a result, few are discounting the possibility of Obama snatching Massachusetts from the Clinton machine.

...

Recently, as attested by the Patrick win, Massachusetts Democrats have certainly seemed eager to vote for the unknown challenger over the well-known establishment figure. And despite the polls, there is still plenty of time for a local Obama surge.

...

95.

oops, the pasted photo covered over the title of the Boston Phoenix news feature piece:

#90, Could be Phil.  I do know I refuse to fall in love again and identify as strongly as I did with Eugene McCarthy and Howard Dean.  It's just too painful. 

I will be more dispassionate, more logical, but I'll always have the same hope, that this country will live up to its promise of justice, of truth, of goodness, of fairness, or living at peace with the earth and all the creatures, frankly, that we be happy.  

Off for a while.  It's always good to be in a dialogue and discussion with the good people here. 

In Massachusetts, it's Davey (Obama) versus Goliath (Billary).

or s/b of.

The Boston Phoenix wrote, "...touting a message of hope and change, calling on young idealists to rise up in a grassroots effort."

< And that's the path: the grassroots.

Patrick and Obama stoke the grassroots. The Patrick victory was the people's victory, and he "was humbled and honored."


Gotta go to work. Think I'll have lunch with Thankful.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/22/AR2008012202614.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Whose Stimulus Makes the Grade?

Wednesday, January 23, 2008; Page A19

...

My grading

...

Barack Obama: A-minus. I criticized his previous tax plan, but Obama is at the head of the class with an intelligently designed, $120 billion stimulus plan. He would speed a $250 tax credit to most workers, followed by another $250, triggered automatically, if the economy continues on its sour path. Obama would direct a similar rebate to low- and middle-income seniors, who are also apt to spend and could get checks quickly. One demerit: Obama omits any increase in food stamp benefits, which Moody's estimates would have the greatest bang for the buck, $1.73 for every dollar spent.

John Edwards: B-minus. Edwards gets points for handing in his paper early -- in December, he issued a $25 billion stimulus proposal (plus $75 billion more if needed), including important help to states to avoid cutting Medicaid rolls. But like Hillary Clinton (see below), he would spend too much money on programs -- investing in "green collar" jobs, for instance -- with too long a lag time to make them an effective stimulus. Edwards's grade goes down because he also hasn't explained how the $75 billion would be spent.

Hillary Clinton: C-plus. Clinton, too, raised the issue early, then turned in a faulty first draft with a $70 billion stimulus plan that didn't provide much immediate stimulation. It included a $25 billion increase in the program to help low-income Americans with heating costs -- an excessive amount (the current program is under $3 billion) that probably wouldn't kick in until next winter. Even worse was her housing plan, including a five-year freeze on subprime mortgage rates that could produce higher interest rates and reduce liquidity.

Four days later, Clinton said she would immediately implement a $40 billion tax rebate plan she had put in reserve in her first draft. Fine, but overall, the Obama plan devotes a far greater percentage to spending that is more likely to jump-start the economy.

...

wa happened last nite? no blog. may be good for all to take a break anyway.

Go Chris Dodd.

9:11am

Good morning, everybody

I guess.  We're back, again------

This is getting to be like the twilight zone. 

http://thephoenix.com/printerfriendlyB.aspx?id=55013

...

Registering Anti-Mitt? Independents Could Kick Romney to the Curb

One phenomenon might complicate the Massachusetts Democratic primary on February 5, say political observers. According to anecdotal evidence, they say, large numbers of registered Democrats in the state re-registered as unenrolled before this past week’s voter-registration deadline.

The reason? In Massachusetts’s semi-open primaries, unenrolled voters may vote in the Republican primary, but registered Democrats may not, and — sources speculate — many Massachusetts Democrats want to actively help stop Mitt Romney’s presidential dreams by voting against him in his home state.

These Democrats, and many people already unenrolled and eligible to vote in either primary, would probably be happy with any of the top Democratic candidates. So they may leave that decision to others, while taking one last opportunity to vote against their former governor.

Well, the blog crashed Firefox after I posted comment 105.  So, all is not well.  Using Opera now.

DFALink is back and with it the opportunity to create posts.  Unfortunately, I can't get my brain in gear this morning.  

Nobody's Stimulus package is any good. It's all meaningless posturing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/23/bloomberg-dismisses-stimu_n_82974.html

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Wednesday the White House and Congress are negotiating a shortsighted economic stimulus package and should focus instead on encouraging immigration and helping strapped homeowners.

"We can't borrow our way out of this. The jig is up," Bloomberg said during a speech to the U.S. Conference of Mayors, which honored his environmental efforts.

The metropolitan mayor used a farming analogy to heap scorn on the current crop of Washington leaders.

"They spent most of this past decade when things were good running up bills with reckless abandon, and when the economy started heading for the ditch, the special interest giveaways got even bigger. I think they ate the seed corn without worrying about the next year's crop. Here we are, the seed corn is gone, and all we've got is a barn full of IOU's," he said.

If he stays on this course and runs, he's gonna get a lot of votes in November

9:21 am

CHANGE?

http://www.alternet.org/election08/74491/

Today’s presidential frontrunners, John McCain and Hillary Clinton, were early prominent supporters of the Iraq War and appear to have suffered little political damage for lining up behind Bush in 2002 when he was at the peak of his power.

For his part, McCain – who campaigns with neoconservative independent Sen. Joe Lieberman – has no plan to end the U.S. occupation of Iraq, indeed talks about keeping U.S. troops there for centuries. Clinton, who was a late convert to an anti-war position, now vows to “start withdrawing” U.S. troops by early spring 2009.

So, it seems a sure bet that a McCain presidency would continue Bush’s Iraq policies indefinitely. And it looks like a gamble whether Clinton would press ahead with her “hope” of bringing “nearly all the troops out by the end of” 2009 – or revert to the neocon-lite position that she embraced from 2002 until the start of the Democratic campaign in 2007.

Ironically, the politician taking the most heat on the Iraq War today is Barack Obama, who opposed the war resolution in 2002. In recent days, he has come under harsh criticism from former President Bill Clinton and Sen. Clinton for not consistently joining with the staunchest war opponents in the Senate.

Huron,

If it werent for Obamas idiotic statements about attacking pakistan(in other words American preemption) he would be in far betetr standing with many of us...........granted if you want to win an election in this countyr the last thing you can appear to be is a softy but I was hoping for something more rationale from him.........IF it comes down to him and Mccain Im afraid he will lose as would Hillary and Edwards............

The US is not ready yet for a differant course and leader..........sad.

DISMAL DEBATE

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080123_that_dismal_democratic_debate/

Supporters of one Democratic candidate or another may insist that their man or woman won last Monday’s debate in South Carolina, but in their hearts most viewers could only have been disappointed by its childish tenor and puerile content. Unless those viewers happened to be Republicans, of course—in which case they could only have been delighted.

With a worried nation edging toward financial panic and dragging down the world economy, the Democrats seem strangely preoccupied with petty “snarking.” A debate is supposed to be a discussion of policy, but this last one was nothing more than a blather of insults. It diminished both Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, while former Sen. John Edwards only emphasized his irrelevance with glancing blows at both contenders.

9:31 AM

92.  I think the central question is what the role of government is.  Is the role of  the agents of government to do the bidding of the people, or are the people to do its bidding.  Of course, as soon as you use the term "agent" you've already answered the question in the sense that you recognize that the people are the government and officials are merely agents--i.e. individuals who have been designated to carry out directives.  

What strikes me as odd is that this interpretation comes to us from Justice Kennedy, a conservative.  And that's what leads me to the conclusion that the current problem in Washington isn't actually ideological.  Rather, what we have to confront is that the government has been perverted by a criminal element and what we have to realize is that democracy is not the shield we might have imagined it to be against being taken over by crooks.  

Our laws are only good as long as they are enforced.

CONGRESS FAILS......AGAIN

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=5769

harsh criticism from former President Bill Clinton and Sen. Clinton for not consistently joining with the staunchest war opponents in the Senate.

Yep, that's the matter that's got my brain out of gear.  

Hill is invested in Iraq as another Bill mess that she's going to clean up.

The trick is how to make the case that it is Bill's mess.

It is and he knows it, just as surely as Kerry knew it was his in 2004. 

Except for Dean and Kucinich and Paul and Obama, they all share the guilt.

It's like original sin.  

brb 

fyi - new Front thread

Good morning.

What happened? Around 5:30pm est the blog and the whole DFA website went down and was down all night. I hope folks got all their all star votes made. I wanted to make a contribution but couldn't.

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Why Al Gore Is Not President

When I think of the qualities of a president and try to relate those qualities to anyone alive, I always return to Al. But we know why he didn't run. The day he'd have heeded the call to serve as president, he'd have been brought down. Rather than lauding a leader, the pundits and his "friends" would have asked about his shoe color or his speech patterns. Who needs it? While I think Al Gore would be one of the best presidents in modern history -- a combination of JFK and FDR at a time when we need both -- the political system in this country, ruled as it is by a punditocracy and consultantocracy, would have been threatened by someone who owes them nothing. They'd have spent night and day sharpening their knives to keep him out. ...full post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-jacob...


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There is a new thread.

est s/b pst

False Pretenses

Following 9/11, President Bush and seven top officials of his administration waged a carefully orchestrated campaign of misinformation about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

By Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith

Full report "Iraq: The War Card" from the Center for Public Integrity: http://www.publicintegrity.org/WarCard/D...

Yeah, I knew I was being tricked by the Opera comment box.  Let's see if Firefox crashes again.

The operative sentence that got messed up is:

Except for Dean and Kucinich and Paul and Obama, they all share the guilt. 

What I mean by they  is recent presidential candidates who supported the war in Iraq, for which I think they should feel guilty and a lot of other people, obviously, agree.

The original sin part is tricky.  Edwards has admitted his error and tried to atone.  Thus, his behavior is consistent with the fundamental Christian attitude towards sin, as was Bush's acceptance of salvation which cleansed him of sin and made him guilt-free ever after.

In other words, admitting sin (or error) not only absolves the sin but removes the guilt and the operative word is the admission.  If you don't admit you've done wrong, you don't get saved and you don't get free of guilt.

Which is where Obama is showing his true colors, by failing to admit his support of the war and his refusal to accept a share of the guilt, he's demonstrating that he's not one of them--i.e. the people who can do no wrong because they subscribe to a higher law.

This is giving me a headache.  It's obviously been a long-term conundrum, to which the answer seems to be that one's inherently wicked nature is permanently resolved by being obedient (subservient) to someone else.  In other words, not being obedient is ipso facto wickedness, regardless of any particular behavior or action one takes.

And I've come full circle again.

Bill and Hill are trying to make Obama feel guilty for going along with a project he defined as wrong, but they don't feel guilty because they've figured out how to define good as evil and evil as good.

So, which is more morally corrupt and corrupting?

If I remember correctly, in the last temptation of Christ satan offered Him dominion over all creation, if He would  make obeisance to him.