Dean is first by miles.

Phil -

If you're still there, Iowa's Stephen Rapp is back in the news (godspeed to him):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080107/wl_nm/warcrimes_taylor_dc_3

By Alexandra Hudson and Emma Thomasson

Mon Jan 7, 3:48 AM ET

THE HAGUE (Reuters) - The trial of former Liberian President Charles Taylor on charges of directing atrocities in Sierra Leone resumed in The Hague on Monday with prosecutors due to call their first witnesses to the stand.

Taylor, once one of Africa's most feared warlords, faces charges of rape, murder, mutilation and recruitment of child soldiers at the U.N.-backed Special Court for Sierra Leone, set up to try those most responsible for the 1991-2002 conflict.

The 59-year-old has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

A relaxed-looking Taylor appeared in the courtroom wearing a dark suit and tie.

"This is an important test for international justice ... it will have ramifications throughout the world," Prosecutor Stephen Rapp had said at a briefing on Friday of the trial he hopes will end decades of impunity for African strongmen.

"There have been other cases involving chiefs of state that have not gone well ... But I am confident that we can present the case and show that it is possible to hold a chief of state responsible in a fair and just trial."

More than quarter of a million people were killed in intertwined wars in Liberia and Sierra Leone which shocked the world with stories and images of child soldiers high on drugs, killing, raping and looting.

Taylor is accused of trying to gain control of Sierra Leone's mineral wealth, particularly its diamond mines, and seeking to destabilize its government by supplying the Revolutionary United Front (RUF) rebels.

Prosecutors have said their first witness will be an expert on the trade in conflict diamonds, followed by a victim of the violence in Sierra Leone, and then an insider once close to Taylor's regime.

In Sierra Leone, a generation of civilian amputees -- their hands or legs hacked off by rebels -- are a painful reminder of the cruelty of the conflict, in which drugged rebels and militias, often child soldiers, killed, raped and maimed.

...

IMO the lessons of last night ?

a woman can cry (Hillary Clinton) and a man cannot (Ed Muskie)

a woman can raise her voice (Hillary Clinton) and a man cannot (Howard Dean)

oh BTW -- thanks to the kind shout outs to me, after my reporting of my cat's death on this past Mon evening  -- especially from Denise, mary vb, Indy steve, s m and Annilow

ciao for now

369. Yes, but Obama didn't do the ganging up, Edwards did the ganging up. S'pose Edwards and Hill were in cahoots?

Good morning folks. rdorgan - I hope you're feeling a bit better today. I'm so sorry about your kitty - truly.

--------

I found Hillary's moment very humanizing but I'm not a sucker. I felt she was on the verge of tears because she was losing not so much for how troubled she was for the country. Especially when they play the clip in it's entirety which most media outlets failed to do.

Well, I'm on board with Obama - my husband put the sign in the yard last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xlzbh2ojpg

Bloomberg says yes we can.  

Somebody has got to bring the Pentagon under control.  Somehow they've got this dominionist vision that everything will be hunky dory as long as America rules and they're putting all their energy into setting up commercial and industrial monopolies protected by the military.  Meanwhile, the detrioration of the environment suggests that what will be left to rule in short order is just a dump.   

350.

Susan Rowe
Wed, 01/09/08

Reposting Susan Rowe's link -- assuage mine too:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5530

Obama has a much greater appeal with Indies which Hillary does not. That bodes well for a general election victory.

If Hillary is the nominee - that Unity '08 stuff will take hold with Bloomberg imo. I feel if Obama wins the nomination -- Bloomberg's run is pointless and he won't do it.

♥

My husband is a very stoic guy - his comments about Hillary crying:

*She was crying because she was losing - not because our young men and women are dying in Iraq*.

366  From previous thread.

It might surprise you, I have long been a supporter of Kucinich, and I really like Gravel.  And I would certainly support them.  I like Edwards too, but he voted for the Iraq war, I said I would never support anyone who did.  But if it comes down to stopping Clinton, I certainly would vote for him.

Right now I am still hoping for Obama, I know from your posts you are not too fond of him.  But I am, I am still hoping that he will pull this off.  I'm in it for the long haul with him.  I will not stop supporting him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Had to leave  for a minute, my Son and his girlfriend stopped by.  I don't believe what just happened.  She asked me how she could get material on Clinton (she called her Hillary), that she wanted to vote for her, I asked her why - she said because she saw her on TV crying, and we need a woman in the White House who can show compassion.  I told her she needed to get on the internet and look at her policies before she decided, she said she didn't really care about her policies.  Before thinking I told her that was B.S.  Now my Son is mad at me (he likes Ron Paul).  Get this, this girl has never ever cared anything whatsoever about politics before.  This is turning out to be a bad day.

11

Your husband hit the nail on the head, I like his style.

330.

dog soldier

"The road show comes to Michigan in a week. McCain is very popular and of course Mitt is the son of a former Michigan Governor. For Dems I think it goes Obama, Hillary and then Edwards.
Michigan is actually two states with the more populated eastern side of the state dominated by liberal Detroit Dems and the more rural western side of the side dominated by conservative Repubs."

Unfortunately, Michigan was *bitch-slapped* by the Dem National committee for moving the primary up.  Committee says Michigan delegates will not be recognized at the national convention. Obama and Edwards chose not to put their names on the ballot here. The ballot will have six choices: Hillary, Dodd (was printed before he withdrew), Gravel, Kucinich, Uncommitted, and Write-in. Even if you choose Write-in, you cannot "write-in" Obama or Edwards. This means if you want to vote against Hillary, you would vote "uncommitted". The "uncommitted" votes can vote for whoever they want on the first ballot.

Also, there's a possibility the "uncommitted" votes could fall into foul play if Barack's surge starts puttering out and the electoral votes are close. But when all is said and done, I don't see how Michigan delegates will not be recognized at the convention. It wouldn't bode well for the party to do so.

btw, It was Michigan Dems who got us into this mess. And, Florida falls into the same situation as Michigan, penalized for moving primary up.

I for one am glad Hillary won since it keeps the contest interesting. I wasn't thrilled at the idea of watching Obama's coronation march any more than I was at watching Hillary's earlier.

But when I heard Obama's concession speech I thought for moment he had won. It was the best of the night and rose far above graciously accepting loss.

Welll said, Sitka.  I'm in agreement with you on both points.  Fancy that!

THE SINISTER NOTHINGNESS OF "CHANGE"

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=491&Itemid=1

When politicians offer nothing, and the people demand nothing, then the powers-that-be are free to continue doing whatever they choose. The death knell of participatory politics can often be a very noisy, celebratory affair - such as we have witnessed in the call-and-response ritual of "Change!" "Hope!" and other exuberant but insubstantial campaign exercises. Finally, the most accomplished slickster in presidential history, Bill Clinton, was compelled to expose Barack Obama's "fairy tale" anti-war history - some truth for a "change." Black Agenda Report knows the story very well, after more than four years of observing Obama's descent from vaguely progressive rhetoric to shameless pandering (to whites) and vapid "Change!" mantra nonsense. Only the rich can win this game.

But when all is said and done, I don't see how Michigan delegates will not be recognized at the convention. It wouldn't bode well for the party to do so.

Absolutely right. Angering Michiganders and Floridians with a delegate fight 3 months before the election would be foolish politics.

Welll said, Sitka.  I'm in agreement with you on both points.  Fancy that!

Well, if you haven't seen a shrink lately, maybe you should. 

Nope, much prefer all those self help books that promise cures for the world and give tools for analyzing everyone else.

Let's not forget - NH has superdelagates to award. Last night's delegate tie is only temporary.

Gotta get on the road, back later.

15.

Sitka -

I must admit, it was good for the Obama campaign to eat some humble pie last night in New Hampshire, and especially early in the election cycle (though, IMO it would have been crippling, like what happened to Dean, if Obama had lost in Iowa).

This means Obama goes back to being a underdog (underdogs are usually more hungry for something than overdogs).

Your pic of Granny H was a nice touch yesterday (thanks):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080109/pl_nm/usa_politics_kenya_dc_3;_ylt=AtkWbHs8uFKiEb7qRWbVAsoV6w8F

Kenyan kin keep Obama faith despite setback

By Thomas Mukoya and Leon Malherbe

2 hours, 9 minutes ago

KOGELO, Kenya (Reuters) - Senator Barack Obama's Kenyan grandmother said her grandson is "full of surprises" and will come back from defeat in New Hampshire's primary to become the first black U.S. president.

In Obama's ancestral village of Kogelo in western Kenya, 85-year-old Sara Hussein on Wednesday expressed the general feeling among locals intently focused on the U.S. presidential race amid the violent election turmoil in their own country.

"I know my son will be number one because he is very bright," Obama's grandmother told Reuters as she dried maize cobs in her simple backyard amid grass-thatched farmsteads.

...

When you get back, Denise, can you explain the super delegates process?  I know in Colorado, we aren't bound by our votes as delegates; however, the campaigns have the right to nix any delegate they don't see as supportive.

THE SINISTER NOTHINGNESS OF "CHANGE"

It sure beat Kerry's theme of "Same." 

BUBBA ON OBAMA'S ANTI-WAR RECORD

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=491&Itemid=1

"It is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years, and never got asked one time - not once, 'Well, how could you say that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war. And you took that speech you're now running on off your Web site in 2004. And there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since. Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

When the Great Triangulator and Supreme Snake Oil Salesman tells you a scam is going on, take it from an expert, and believe.

10:15 AM

Re: the front page -- the issues voters are concerned about:

The polls I saw taken yesterday had totally different results:

Democrats:

1. Economy

2. Iraq war

3. health care

Republicans:

1. Economy

2. Iraq war

3. Immigration

If it makes no difference in the final results, the Michigan and Florida delegates will be seated.  If it does make a difference, look for a fight.

Personally, my attitude is "let 'em take a hike."  Then we'll see less of the primary data jumping next cycle.  Otherwise, expect the next Iowa caucuses to be January 21, 2009. 

McCain cannot become the Republican nominee. He is loathed by the right wing base of the party.

If you’ll recall, McCain’s trajectory at this juncture is a carbon copy of his 2000 campaign, i.e., ignore Iowa, win New Hampshire on the strength of the ballots of self styled maverick independents, maybe take Michigan (although Romney will be formidable, especially out in dog soldier’s region) and perish in flames in South Carolina. We are reliving history.

The rich irony, to me, is that McCain and Huckabee would have the potential of becoming a winning ticket for Republicans in 2008, at least against Clinton, because stupid Republicans would be finally forced to recognize it as the only available combination of true conservative and Christian fundamentalist in the group. As it is, however, the fawning media depiction of McCain as some kind of party rebel, based on his votes against the first Bush tax cut and in favor of campaign finance and immigration reform, is a thick enough smoke screen to keep the core Republican voters off the scent. Hysterical, but true.

When the Great Triangulator and Supreme Snake Oil Salesman tells you a scam is going on, take it from an expert, and believe.

I make it a point to never let the candidates nor their minions tell me what to think about their opponents. 

"it’s also noticeable that her success seems to have come at the expense of John Edwards. In Iowa, Edwards competed strongly with HRC for the traditional blue-collar, core Democratic voter. In New Hampshire, those voters broke decidedly for her.

Delegate standings for Democrats:

Obama - 24

Clinton - 23

Edwards - 14

Richardson, Gravel, Kucinich - 0

Pat, still here

Check out this site

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/...

Sorry gotta beat the crowds on the freeway

One more goodie piece of info and I'm gone -- at least for awhile.

One week before the New Hampshire primary, Obama was 14 points behind Hillary Clinton. Last night he was only two points behind. That's a much better position than Hillary ended up with in Iowa.

If it makes no difference in the final results, the Michigan and Florida delegates will be seated.  If it does make a difference, look for a fight.

That may happen. But it will be political foolishnesh. 

Personally, my attitude is "let 'em take a hike." 

Those states will take a hike alright -- right into the GOP column in Nov. 

Then we'll see less of the primary data jumping next cycle.  Otherwise, expect the next Iowa caucuses to be January 21, 2009.

Better to just change the primary system to a fair and equal national primary day than having to keep using punative measures to keep the current corrupt and unfair one working as of old.

This is not 2000.  Huckabee is not Bush (and neither is Romney).  McCain 2008 is not McCain 2000. So to expect the GOP race tro fall out the same way it did in 2000 is to, well, expect a ten point win for Obama in New Hampshire.

If the GOP establishment had a Bush, then I'd agree McCain had no chance, but this is a different election cycle, and I can see McCain getting the nomination (although it's certainly too early to predict that).  One of the fun games to play is always, "if you were advising X, what would you tell him or her to do?"

For the GOP, the one to advise is Romney, since as long as he wants to spend it, he has money.  My recommendation would be to fire a few people, reorganize a bit (for show if nothing else) and then frame yourself as the "Middle of the GOP" candidate, a "Regular Republican."  Frame McCain and Huckabee as extremists outside the mainstream of GOP thought.  Then pick your spots in February 5th and buy TV like crazy.

Would it be enough, I don't know, but that's what I'd do. 

Of course, as I said in an earlier thread, I'm not an average American, so my advice may not be worth much. 

Well, MIchigan is next and its a Hillary slam dunk.  Due to the fact that of the big three she's the only one still on the ballot as stated by Karen above.

(The rest is a repost from the end of the last thread.) 

Florida, with is disallowed delegates, is the next big test.  They are all on the ballot.  And its solid Clinton country.  All of the important Dems have lined up behind her, including Rep. Alcee Hastings, who is very influential among African-American voters.  And the move up to an earlier date, as I have stated before, was conceived to give her an edge.  All Obama has in Florida is Wexler, powerful in Palm Beach County (which is major Clinton country) but not nearly enough.

The results in NH will only serve to buoy her support with the huge money interests in Florida.  And they are considerable.  The flood of advertising she will be able to do with this money in the big states (where she is already the favorite) of the February 5 super primary will be overwhelming.  It will probably be over at by Feb 6.  And that is damned depressing.

There is the hope that South Carolina may give Obama a win that may give voters prior to Feb. 5 a moment to pause and reflect.....

When I watched the debate Saturday I kept yelling at the TV for BO to "Throw the bucket of water!! Throw the bucket of water!!  She will come back if you don't throw the water on her!!"  Nobody ever listens to me. 

On the subject of "short attention spans" -- here's one example:

fyi - A person who I know came by saying "Hillary !" "Hillary !" near my workspace.  She the stopped by my desk and asked me if I support Hillary and I said "No".  She asked me: "Then, whom are you going to vote for ?"  [understand this -- that same person I had told her that I supported Obama just two days ago].  I told her: "Obama".  She simplyreplied: "No".  She then proceded to move on, saying "Hillary !" Hillary !"

There is nothing fair about a national primary day.  It just gives the nomination to whomever has name recognition and money.  This time around, instant Hillary.  Last time would have been Kerry.  How anyone who thinks themself a Progressive or Liberal could be for a national primary day is beyond me.

And I don't think voters in Michigan or Florida will give a damn in November if their delegates were seated at the convention.  Nobody even watches the convention any more.

DEAR DEMOCRATIC ESTABLISHMENT.........

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_kevin_go_080109_dear_democratic_esta.htm

Yesterday saw another victory for you. You managed to get people to vote Hillary and those people managed to show up in more numbers than the young people of America who are inspired by Barack Obama’s clarion call for change. You managed to open this race back up for the establishment favorite, Hillary Clinton. What you did not manage to do is erase Dennis Kucinich from this election yet in the same manner you erased Mike Gravel.

You have chosen to play it safe again, which will cost American lives and possibly your establishment the election. You have chosen to play it safe on the Iraq war and especially a future war with Iran or Pakistan. You have chosen to play it safe on No Child Left Behind as evidenced by the New Hampshire debate where Richardson spoke about getting rid of it and yet all the other candidates looked expressionless when that was said. You have chosen now for the third time (the first in 2000 with Al Gore and Joe Lieberman and the second in 2004 with John Kerry and John Edwards) to ignore the need for single-payer health care system and settle once again for a managed health care system that would be cloaked under the description “affordable health care.” You have kept discussion of the rise of fascism, “shock doctrine” policy, the economy’s subprime loan scandal and federal reserve problem, and an end to this “war on terror” out of this election.

For playing it safe, it is this Democratic Party that will suffer. Safety will lead to populism exiting this election. People will become less enthused as they realize that who you are putting up for election will only create the veneer of change and will not actually build the structures for change that should be changed. And it will be you who pays after a Republican wins in 2008 because you chose to alienate the people and keep them out of this process because their influence would have meant giving in to some of their demands.

You’ve limited the issues that Democratic candidates could make statements on and win votes on. You’ve ignored what’s important to the American people. And you’ve allowed the media and corporations to pick and choose for the American people who they have the right to vote for in the primaries and in November’s election.

And so it is with deep disgust that I end this letter knowing full well that the REAL Americans lost this election a long time ago. It is only the people that fit your idea of America that will win in November if you do not find a way to manufacture defeat.

Big news for Obama: he scored the Culinary Workers Union endorsement.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kuo/obama-polls-and-race_b_80574.html

David Kuo

Obama, Polls, and Race

Posted January 8, 2008 | 10:04 PM (EST)

It now seems pretty clear that virtually all of the late polling on the Democratic side was wrong... very wrong. The last Rasmussen Report had Obama +7 over Clinton. CBS had him +7. USA Today had Obama +13 and CNN +10.

With more than 60% of New Hampshire now reporting Obama is -3. 40% of precincts still need to report. Things may change. But this gap really is extraordinary. Chances are nil that Obama is going to win overwhelmingly. The polls were hugely wrong.

Why?

It is a return to the race-gap polling problems of the 1980s and 1990s:

This phenomenon was first noticed in the 1982 race for governor of California, where Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley, a black Democrat, narrowly lost to Republican George Deukmejian, despite polls showing him with a lead ranging from 9 to 22 points. The next year, African-American Democrat Harold Washington barely won his race for mayor of Chicago against Republican Bernard Epton. Pre-election polls taken within the last two weeks of the campaign showed Washington with a 14-point lead.
The problem was prominent in the New York City mayoral race in 1989. David Dinkins, an African-American candidate beat Republican Rudy Giuliani by only 2 points, despite leading by as much as 18 points in polls a week before the election.

Tonight, despite all the talk of how little race matters in this campaign, it is clear that race is still a big deal in bi-racial campaigns. And it has showed up for the first time, in a measurable way, in the 2008 presidential race.

It means that every poll -- from exit polls to tracking polls -- are absolutely suspect from here on out.

It means that every poll -- from exit polls to tracking polls -- are absolutely suspect from here on out.

Especially with Diebold in the picture.

rich wrote:

"This is not 2000.  Huckabee is not Bush (and neither is Romney).  McCain 2008 is not McCain 2000. So to expect the GOP race tro fall out the same way it did in 2000 is to, well, expect a ten point win for Obama in New Hampshire.

"If the GOP establishment had a Bush, then I'd agree McCain had no chance, but this is a different election cycle, and I can see McCain getting the nomination (although it's certainly too early to predict that)."

Can you elaborate?  I view McCain in 2008 as indistinguishable from his identity in 2000.  Same obstinate party contrarian, same rogue state rollback militarist, same staunch conservative hated by Rush Limbaugh and the evangelical right.

I believe Romney absolutely is the substantial equivalent of Bush in 2008.  You can recognize it by his businessman governor background, his establishment credentials, and his huge war chest.  Romney will be the safe fallback candidate for conservatives who are nonplussed by their unpalatable range of choices.  The only distinction I see, and I would agree it is a wild card, is his religion.

Is there such a thing as a free press in America ?

IMO - no.

For there's a reason why the MSM is called by some The Fourth Estate -- the MSM might look like they relish reporting on the new, on change but when it comes right down to it, they are resistant to change and like stability -- in other words, just like the other three brancches of government.

One week before the New Hampshire primary, Obama was 14 points behind Hillary Clinton. Last night he was only two points behind. That's a much better position than Hillary ended up with in Iowa.

That's good spin because it's unarguably true. It doesn't even need the last sentence about Hillary.

Big news for Obama: he scored the Culinary Workers Union endorsement.

Ha! Russert eats crow again. 

IMO the MSM covertly want a Hillary coorination (no matter what fancy footwork the MSM might due in the process with reporting on polls, with pundits saying wow to change, etc. -- at the end of the dance, the MSM will be standing in it's arms the STATUS QUO candidate -- Hillary Clinton).

typo - might due  s/b - might do

typo - standing in it's arms the  s/b - standing, with it's arms around the

In the general election, who will the average American vote for? Forget issues............the guy in the bomber jacket with a low, cool demeanour.....................or the weeping woman? The republcians are gonna show that over and over again............compasion in the WH?  I can see it now..a big Osama ad........compassion?

It will come down to this simple display..............this is how Republicans win, they are masters at starting with Reagan..all image, very little substance........baseball, mom and apple pie.....

The Democrats have done it again...............amazing this party..............

In the general election, who will the average American vote for? Forget issues............the guy in the bomber jacket with a low, cool demeanour.....................or the weeping woman?

You have no idea and delude yourself if you think you do. 

Mike wrote: "It will come down to this simple display..............this is how Republicans win, they are masters at starting with Reagan."

The major difference this year is that Republicans don't like a single one of their available candidates. 

In 2000 McCain ran, basically, against his own party.  He drew lots of reform-minded Democrats and independents to his campaign with his message of campaign finance reform and voter empowerment (look at some of McCain's speeches and his website in 2000, and you might have thought it was Dean so far as the voter empowerment meme was concerned)..  He was silent on abortion and all of the GOP social issues.  There was no Iraq War to be for or against (and no "War on Terror").  In many ways, he was 2000's Dean.George W. Bush was the undisputed choice of the big money GOP establishment and far and away the prohibitive favorite.  The cultural conservatives liked him too.  There was no split.  The only other candidate was Alan Keyes!

2008 McCain tried to run as George Bush's third term and failed, because the big money GOP nor the cultural conservatives would really buy in, and his sucking up to Bush for the past four years alienated his Democratic and Independent crossovers.  He's a big supporter of the Iraq War and "War on Terror". He almost never talks about reform or the empowerment of the voters or his opposition in 2000 (and  in Congress in 2001-2) to Bush's tax cuts, the primary themes of his 2000 campaign, instead it's "defeat Islamo-facism" and stay in Iraq for 100 years, with enough nods to the cultural conservatives to try to make himself acceptable.

McCain 2008 is running a very different campaign than McCain 2000. 

Oh, I left out Romney.

Romney is trying to be Bush 2000 in 2008, except the Morman thing gets in the way, and he has had competitors for the role (Fred Thompson, Rudy, etc).  As I said above, trying to frame himself in that role (instead of his futile attempt to be a born-again Morman earlier in the campaign) in combination with his personal wealth (which he can spend) may keep him in it, and even in a position to win. 

Had to laugh at an exit poll I just saw on MSNBC. 75% said Hillary had the most experience. Obama was at 5% and Richardson 16%. What makes it funny is that Biden was at 0% -- and he's only been in government since the Ice Age and has more experience than any!

The bad side effect of large turnout is that a lot more ignorami show up. But hey, they have a right to be heard too.

Don't know is this pic of super-duper Tuesday states will turn out on this blog, but here goes:

* rdorgan
Wed, 01/09/08

    This may be the best explination for what happen.  Not to discount the main party strength which as politics goes is overwhelmingly Hillary.

I  attended our Delegate caucus on January 3rd.  The caucus is normally dominated by party regulars and this one was no exception.  Hillary had 80 people caucsing for 6 delegates selections, Obama had 16.  None of those 16 were party regulars.

I actually caucused for Hillary because one of my High School Senior volunteers wanted to be a delegate for Hillary and I wanted to make sure she would have a chance.  She won and it surprised a lot of people.

The real primary is March 4th.  Then I'm stuck with the prospect of not liking a single candidate for president.  Guess I'm spoiled by Howard Dean. 

Just heard Barack Obama interviewed by Steve Inskeep (spell?) on NPR.  #25, Huron John, Bill Clinton left out the last half of Obama's sentence on whether or not he would have voted for the War Resolution in Congress with respect to Iraq.  Obama added after he said that he didn't know if he'd have voted for it, that the case hadn't been made for the resolution. He said that he was also mindful of wanting to support the Democratic ticket of John Kerry and John Edwards by not cutting them down.  Makes sense to me.

Obama, as usual, was thoughtful, couldn't disagree with a word that he said.  But, I am convinced that it is going to be a furious race.  So far, Obama doesn't lose his cool, which is excellent.

We have a chance, I bleieve, we have a chance for an inspiring yet realistic president, and  yes, for me that was much of John F. Kennedy's promise.  We have a chance as long as we demand the best of candidates, use our best thinking, continue the dialogue with each other and our communities, and actually contribute to the process in whatever way we can.

Darn, I just don't like the Clinton's because they seem to me to be more about ambition and whatever it takes than they are about fairness, honesty, and real commitment to all the people of this country.  This is gut level, and I wouldn't go entirely with it, though I'd take it into account. 

55.

sitka,

Sadly, those polls show the power of brainwashing of willing creatures.

rich wrote "McCain 2008 is running a very different campaign than McCain 2000."

This must be a matter of perspective then.  Media darling McCain will unquestionably draw Democratic and independent voters to his campaign in 2008 because deluded media consumers swallow the maverick meme whole.  Whether he was silent or not on the issue of abortion in 2000, right wing Republcans give him no credit for having a conservative voting record and never will. 

You mention there was no Iraq fiasco in 2000.  This is my personal favorite because in 2000, Bush was a virtual cipher on the issue of foreign policy and may not have been able to find Iraq on a map.  In contrast, McCain was openly brandishing his rouge state rollback policy and, moreover, militating in favor of overthrowing the Saddam government by military means.  Almost alone among every member of Congress, he ragged former President Bush about not finishing the job in the Gulf War. 

Moreover, the campaign's primary season strategy not only resembles 2000's in every respect, but the results are substantially identical.  McCain will either be treading water or get a little soft bounce after Michigan, and will proceed to get pulverized in South Carolina by a conservative voting bloc that would sooner commit ritual suicide than support him.

Good for you, mary vb.

Muskie wasn't crying, BTW. See previous thread.

William Loeb had smeared his wife (Jane) as a flamin' drunk--the media pigpiled upon it.

Rich K: Boomers=1946-64 Depends where within that continuum; and women in the US have been battered, their husbands & s/0 ahve screwed around on 'em; they've experience glass ceiling in the workplace, sexual harassment, raised kids solo--sans child support--or adequate amounts; receive zero $$ for caregiving children, elders, volunteerism, & housework; and the Equal Pay Act of *1963* has never been enforced or implemented. They lose upwards of over $1.5M in a lifetime.

The Family Medical Leave Act is a farce, as it's all about UNPAID labor while out of the waged workforce.

Big f^ckin' deal.

Billary manipulated their emotions like a freakin' fiddle ("the 'boys' are ganging up on me").

The Planned Parenthood smear was out on Obama; and there's nothing at all legit. about it--however, those folks weren't likely to have seen the refutations online while at work...who says they even know what a blog *is*???

That's why those women voted for her--it resonated w/their personal and professional lives (although, they didn't stop to think "why didn't Big Dog or Billary *change* things in these past 35 yrs.?"

Think of me voting for Collins or Snowe...they're both complicit as hell. Nada.

I fully expect Collins to pull the same sh^t w/Tom Allen.

We forewarned him of that at a house party (my Dir. of Women's Studies broached the topic). I don't think male politicans "get it."

Their young staffers have lived lives off the backs of feminists like me--they do take it all for granted...sorry.

No way are they living lives of full power & autonomy, vs. that of men (maybe Hispanic or Native American men, but you gotta dig deep for it).

Start speaking of women in the military being raped/battered--along w/women's lives of abject hell in Iraq & Afghanistan. So much for "the surge." Women in war zones are alwasy tortured--they have no means of power or of escape.

sKerry (and Howard, also) trotted out women waaaaaaaaaaaay too late in '04, or only mentioned them in passing. sKerry was too busy pretending to be "one of the guys"--dealing w/the Swiftboating issues (along w/ridiculous windsurfing on Cape Cod; and pretending to be a NRA macho hunter).

Get real w/the pandering.

When will they effin' learn???

I see no candidates w/a women's issues section...or they're half-baked, if they do exist.

Tom needs to be seen w/women of all ages...at all times in the public sphere; and needs to mention a helluva lot more than Suzie-Q's rubber stamping of Alito & Roberts (e.g., reasons to support him--"change of status quo," vs. staying w/Collins).

I'm curious, re: the women voters' educational & socio-economic statuses who voted for her yesterday.

When we vote "emotionally," it's not a good thang.

While watching C-Span's _Washington Journal_ this morning, a caller explcitly mentioned "how would Hillary cope under stress, re: foreign policy--would she be breaking down at the drop of a hat?"

Talk about backlash.

That clip will be gleefully played repeatedly by the RNC like we've never imagined.

My guess is African American women w/side with race (they've done so, historically--despite dire poverty & DV stats within their community).

Amidst racism and sexism, there's welfare deform (parenting is no longer a "countable work activity," so toss the Soccer Mom meme out the window). Those women are treated like abject shit in this country--thanks to Big Dog.

I haven't heard a peep of that as yet. They're forced to farm out their kids to perfect strangers (no choice--can't obtain abortions in most states--too damned bad); and work crap "jobs" (along w/'workfare', which benefits business)--it's slavery of the masses. It's federally subsidized racism and misogynistic as hell.

Nothing "empowering" about it; and it affects millions of women of color and their kids.

Oprah is powerful; and I hope to see her use it (although she won't be enough).

Again: A.B.H. all the way.

Billary is collecting $2300.00 donors as I type, folks.

Kucinich, Richardson, & Gravel need to get the hell out.

NOW.

They're hogging scant resources.

Edwards' 14 delegates aren't worth squat. It would be wise of *Obama* to offer him a VP spot...pronto (before even more labor & professional constituency groups back Billary).

0%-5% (tying w/write-in votes?!) is a joke.

What the Bush Dog and Bush Republican Economic and Environmental policies have done to Central California.

btw, Cardoza(d) is backing Clinton, BIG TIME.

---

Modesto, CA - Huge number of foreclosed homes on auction block today

A staggering 145 properties were scheduled for foreclosure auctions today on the Stanislaus County courthouse steps. Many of the auctions got postponed, but the home selling — with virtually no bidders — went on for more than two hours.
“It’s probably double the usual daily workload for us,” said David Basher, president of Dual Arch International, which does most of Stanislaus County’s foreclosure auctions. During the last six months, 60 to 80 auctions a day have been typical. “The volume is mounting.”

Absher said he can remember back in the late 1980s when it was a big day if three homes got auctioned off. The foreclosure business has boomed so much the last year that Dual Arch has doubled its staff. ...

... the lenders are stuck owning the foreclosed properties. Most of those lenders, who issued mortgages primarily during 2005 and 2006, are owed more than the houses now are worth. ......full article and photos: http://www.modbee.com/local/pmupdates/st...

---

Air quality official urges folks who breathe to do their homework

By BARBARA ANDERSON
THE FRESNO BEE

last updated: December 20, 2007 10:13:27 AM

Air quality officials need the help of an informed public to clean the San Joaquin Valley's dirty air, according to a health report released Tuesday.
People living in the valley cite air pollution as one of their biggest environmental concerns, yet they show a "low level of public engagement in the issue," said David Lighthall, senior scientist for the Central Valley Health Policy Institute at California State University, Fresno.

Educating the public about air pollution is crucial, said Lighthall, co-author of "The Long Road to Clean Air in the San Joaquin Valley: Facing the Challenge of Public Engagement."

"The most important recommendation I can make is, if people care about the problem, they need to do their homework," Lighthall said at a news conference and panel discussion about the report.

The San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District has been around for 16 years, but more than two-thirds of valley residents have little or no knowledge of the agency, which enforces air quality regulations, the report said.

Air pollution is a complex problem, and it's unrealistic to expect the public to understand the scientific background or the air quality laws, said one of the panelists, Pete Weber, chairman of the air quality coalition of the Partnership for the San Joaquin Valley, a group trying to improve the valley's economy.

But it is realistic, Weber said, "to expect the public to understand the broad outlines of the issue."

Regulations on businesses and industry are not enough to clean the air, said Tom Jordan, senior policy adviser at the San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District. "It's going to require voluntary actions and actions by every sector of our economy." ...full article: http://www.modbee.com/local/story/157695...

A History lesson.

Modesto is in the 19th and 18th Congressional Districts.

Dennis Cardoza(d) 18th CD , Richard Pombo's and George Radanovich's favorite democrat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California's_18th_congressional_district

George Radanovich(R) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California's_19th_congressional_district

Grupe to host a bipartisan affair
Fund-raiser will give to both sides
http://www.cpif.org/News/headlines/cardo...

Valley political bonds strong
Oakland Tribune, Apr 1, 2005 by Michael Doyle, MODESTO BEE

WASHINGTON — Jerry McNerney didn't bother seeking Rep. Dennis Cardoza's help the last time he ran for Congress.

McNerney, like Cardoza, is a lifelong California Democrat. Both want their party to regain control of Congress. But though McNerney won the endorsement of eight Democratic House members in his 2004 bid to unseat Republican Rep. Richard Pombo, he said he never called Cardoza.

"It was pretty well understood that he wasn't going to support anyone against Mr. Pombo," McNerney said Thursday. ...full article (there is more to the story): http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn...

Pombo introduces revised Endangered Species Act
Nov 7, 2005 8:29 AM, By Forrest Laws

While Pombo has frequently claimed that the 1973 law has been ineffective, resulting in less than 1 percent of listed species being recovered, Clark said the act has been “extraordinarily successful at preventing the extinction of our nation’s precious wildlife.”

Rep. Richard W. Pombo, R-Calif., introduced his long-awaited rewrite of the Endangered Species Act of 1973, saying it was “time to do better” by the plants and animals the law was designed to protect.

Pombo, chairman of the House Resources Committee, was joined by fellow West Coast Congressmen Dennis Cardoza, D-Calif.; Greg Walden, R-Ore.; and George Radanovich, R-Calif., at a press conference announcing the new legislation in Stockton, Calif., Sept. 19.

After the announcement, critics complained the new legislation would cripple the current Endangered Species Act and “punch loopholes in the law on behalf of greedy developers, oil companies and other special interests.” Pombo said the 1973 law simply has not done what it was intended to do. ...full article: http://southwestfarmpress.com/news/05110...

California Labor, Local Government, and Business Organizations Support Pombo, Cardoza, Walden Effort to Update the ESA
SACRAMENTO, Calif -- Representatives from California labor, local government and business organizations greeted a Congressional commitment to update the federal Endangered Species Act (ESA) as a positive step for species, their habitat, and the state's economy.

Organizations including the California Alliance for Jobs, California Chamber of Commerce, California Building Industry Association, California Business Properties Association, and the California Forestry Association (partial list) are rallying behind an effort spearheaded by Congressmen Richard Pombo, Dennis Cardoza, and George Radanovich from California and Congressman Greg Walden from Oregon to make the Act work better, minimize confusion, and discourage litigation.

During a press conference held in Sacramento, the four Congressmen put forward the Threatened and Endangered Species Recovery Act of 2005 (TESRA) - this year's bi-partisan effort to update and improve the ESA. TESRA seeks to fix a number of long-outstanding problems of the ESA by amending the Act to: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0...

Thanks, Denise, for the website on super delegates.  Hillary Clinton is overwhelming at this point.  But, I have hope to quote my candidate.

I'd forgotten, but yes, elected representatives in the Democratic Party are automatically delegates, and that's what the super delegate business is all about.  That means in Colorado, our governor, our Congress folks are superdelegates in the Democratic Party. 

Edwards' 14 delegates aren't worth squat. It would be wise of *Obama* to offer him a VP spot...pronto

Nonsense. Edwards would be a liability just as he was for Kerry. The fraction of Edwards' supporters who would switch to him wouldn't make a big difference to Obama. And if word about such a deal got out it would kill him.

Keep playing it straight and forget about backroom machinations. 

Truth News | January 8, 2008
Kurt Nimmo

In Garfield County, Colorado, not only will the state determine if you should take your child to a doctor after a mishap, but if you don't comply with their on-high directives, they will dispatch a SWAT team to ensure compliance.

According to Tom Shiflett, a Vietnam vet, his son was injured during horseplay, WorldNetDaily reports. Shiflett's son, John, "was grabbing the door handle of a car as his sister was starting to drive away slowly. He slipped, fell to the ground and hit his head�. There were no broken bones, no dilated eyes, or any other noticeable problems."

(Article Continues Below)

After a neighbor called an ambulance, paramedics "were allowed to see the boy, and found no significant impairment, but wanted to take him to the hospital for an evaluation anyway. Fearing the hospital's bills, the family refused to allow that."

According to friends of the family, Tom Shiflett, who has 10 children including six still at home, and served with paramedics in Vietnam, was monitoring his son's condition himself.

The paramedic and magistrate, however, ruled that that wasn't adequate, and dispatched the officers to take the boy, John, to a hospital, where a doctor evaluated him and released him immediately.

But this was not sufficient for the sheriff's office and social services. "Nearly a dozen members of a police SWAT team" were subsequently unleashed in response, "punched a hole in the front door and invaded a family's home with guns drawn, demanding that an 11-year-old boy� accompany them to the hospital, on the order of Garfield County Magistrate Lain Leoniak."

It appears Shiflett and his family were made an example, as in part they "live by faith and homeschool," social behavior anathema to the NWO and its minions in Colorado government and so-called social services and various control commissariats, conversely known as child kidnapping services.

"While people can debate whether or not the father should have brought his son to the ER � it seems like this was not the kind of emergency that warrants this kind of outrageous conduct by government officials," a spokesman for the Home School Legal Defense Association told WND.

During the SWAT raid for non-compliance, the "boy's parents and siblings were thrown to the floor at gunpoint and the parents were handcuffed� all because a paramedic was upset the family preferred to care for their son themselves."

Of course, caring for your own is unacceptable, same as it was in the Soviet Union. Mr. Shiflett and his family learned first-hand that all of us are serfs and when the state barks "jump," our only response should be "how high, sir?" Our children are property of the state and we will not be allowed to care for them � or for that matter, school them at home � and government intervention will be mandatory, otherwise SWAT goons will be dispatched to kick in the door and act like what they are, Gestapo goons revisited

"As we know, the presumption is always that the polls were wrong. Never the results. Despite how much less transparent the system used to count votes is than the system used to collect polling data."

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5530

Kucinich, Richardson, & Gravel need to get the hell out.

NOW.

They're hogging scant resources.

LOL.....if they're hogs, then they're mighty small ones. 

"11. mary vb"

Spot-on.

And it gives all women a black eye, so to speak...that they're "too emotional," and can't hack powerful positions of prestige and $$$ in the public sphere.

Billary turned the clock back on feminism by decades.

Keep commodifying & subordinating women, Billary.

As early as 1949, Maine still had dowries (from my geneology research).

She was frustrated because she was *tanking*...plain and simple.

I don't care *what* Gloria Steinem said yesterday.

Women were literally barred from post-secondary institutions and the workplace for decades (esp. married women--see Rosie fmi), due to "Cult of True Womanhood" bulls^it. Billary uses it to her convenience at whim; and I don't condone it, one iota.

In the next breath, she's "tough enough on defense."

Then she "misses cleaning her house" while out on the stump.

F^ck that--she's never in Chapaqua, & has maids & nannies while Chelsea was growing up (I'd love to know what they're paid).

We have a incongruency problem, Houston.

If they exercised their intellect, their genital organs would rot--socially constructed misogyny.

A.B.H.

Interesting article, Daniel, and points out the dilemma we've always had in this country.  I remember the court rulings on Christian Science folks who refused medicat treatment for t heir children. In most cases, the courts ruled that the children would receive medical treatemnt.

I wonder if the child had been brain-dmaged and the authoities had not tried to intervene and the child died?  I wonder what would have happened then?  Would there have been suits filed, criminal charges filed, an investigation of the services?  

It is an ongoing issue in this country, has been around for a long time, and there's no easy or simple or patent answer. 

Sorry for all the typos.  My fault for not proofreading.

what stocks to buy in the coming year ?

McDonald's

Dairy Queen

Does this mean if Hillary becomes president, that Martha's Vineyard will get inundated with a presidential entourage every summer ?  I feel sorry for those Massachusetts local folks there and others from out-of-state vacationing there to have to put up with that and the accompanying media paparozzi -- though I'm sure the McDonald's and Dairy Queen businesses on the island will welcome Hill and Bill with open arms amd cash-register eyes.

One more quick response, Daniel, school counselors, teachers, administrators, and nurses can go to jail if they don't report an injury or suspected child abuse or neglect; yet, they know that sometimes if it is reported, the situation for the child becomes even more damaging since the parents will be furious and take it out on the child.

Sometimes the more rigid we make laws, the more constrained or extreme the response.  I don't think there's any easy answer, but every time social services rescues an abused child, we are glad for that.  When they don't, we are outraged. 

Edwards won't be asked to be VP by anyone and even if he was he would never accept.  His wife didn't ask him to continue to fight so that he could become a useless appendage to a second rate President.

If he falls short of becoming President I would expect that he will concentrate more on his family and Elizabeth's fight.  I don't see politics in Edwards' future except at the highest level.

McCain and Obama make an interesting political couple when viewed by their reputations in the media as magnets fo crossover votes. Whether because their background stories are appealing in a dramatic sense or because the other candidates are just more boring to cover, the media slobbers over these two, which raises their profiles as candidates able to blur party distinctions and rise above garden variety partisan politics.

I suppose there is a superficial basis for this odd interpretation. Their relationship with Lieberman, for one, provides a common link since he’s the ultimate chameleon: Democrat, turned Independent, leaning Republican. Obama rhetorically makes overtures to independents and moderates, somewhat the way Dean did, and McCain joins Democrats as cosponsor to bills on discrete issues whose solutions may appear to lend themselves to a bipartisan approach.

It’s only amusing because if you review their voting records, McCain’s is hidebound conservative and Obama’s is the most liberal by far of anyone except superfluous candidates Kucinich and, perhaps, Gravel. Nevertheless, if Edwards can be characterized as a two Americas populist, then it follows logically that Obama and McCain can be considered centrists. It simply requires elaborate media stage presentations and the audience’s willing suspension of disbelief.

Paz wrote "I don't see politics in Edwards' future except at the highest level."

Coincidentally, I don't see politics in Edwards' future.

Superdelegates are a plot byt the Democrats to take back the Party after McGovern's forces beat folks like (the first) Mayor Daley and George Meany out for delegate seats.  All of the establishment gets special seats they don't have to compete for and can swing the convention they way they want to (if they haven't already).

"Democratic" Party? 

I can't disagree with you, Rich.  The insiders of the Colorado Democratic Party saw to it that Mike Miles was defeated by Ken Salazar.  Even the National Committee contributed by giving Ken Salazar money and media converage that he was the winner even before it happened.

Sticks in the craw, it does. 

Farm Bill: Revenue Plans Draw Focus; Biofuels: Switch Grass Research

Categories: Farm Bill / Ethanol

Chris Clayton, writing yesterday at DTN (link requires subscription), reported that, “Revenue-assurance changes in the counter-cyclical program that have been such a pivotal part of the farm-bill debate could get dropped from the bill during conference negotiations, the chairman of the House Agriculture Committee said Monday.

“Rep. Collin Peterson, D-Minn., has been working on the farm bill throughout much of the congressional break, which includes holding ongoing talks with Acting Agriculture Secretary Chuck Conner about the Bush administration’s concerns with the bill.”... full article: http://www.zimbio.com/pilot?SP=1&ID=&ZUR...


Blue Dog Democrats: Conservative, Or Just Plain Corrupt? by David Sirota

Through their ethics scandals, Republicans in Washington long ago began making the word “conservative” synonymous with the term “corrupt.” Surprisingly, though, it is a group of Democrats that is cementing this definitional conversion for good. ... full article: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/2007...

Remember the day after Dean's loss in Iowa, how BFA 1.0 was inundated with detractors ?

Well, the Obama '08 blog has a number this morning -- one in particular does the absolutely brillant, I say brillant, idea of disguising that he'/she's a Obama supporter with his/her handle name - Obama from Beverly Hills, CA:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post_group/ObamaHQ/CGTN#comments

...

Absolutely right. First a primary system that eliminates most candidates before most people even get to vote and then delegates that aren't even elected at all.

It's so rotten it stinks.

Who is the REAL insider "Status Quo" Candidate now.

---

http://www.zimbio.com/pilot?SP=1&ID=&ZUR...

Monday, January 07, 2008

DNC Superdelegate List

In the coming weeks we will try to get a handle on where the superdelegate votes will go.


Clinton
Gov. Jon Corzine of New Jersey
Gov. Eliot Spitzer of New York
Gov. Martin O'Malley of Maryland
Sen. Daniel Inouye of Hawaii
Sen. Barbara Mikulski of Maryland
Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York
Rep. Gary Ackerman of New York
Rep. Michael Arcuri of New York
Rep. Robert Andrews of New Jersey
Rep. Timothy Bishop of New York
Rep. Joseph Crowley of New York
Rep. Eliot Engel of New York
Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York
Rep. John Hall of New York
Rep. Alcee Hastings of Florida
Rep. Brian Higgins of New York
Rep. Maurice Hinchey of New York
Rep. Steve Israel of New York
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas
Rep. Nita Lowey of New York
Rep. Carolyn Maloney of New York
Rep. Doris Matsui of California
Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York
Rep. Jim McGovern of Massachusetts
Rep. Michael McNulty of New York
Rep. Gregory Meeks of New York
Rep. Jerrold Nadler of New York
Rep. Richard Neal of Massachusetts
Rep. Frank Pallone of New Jersey
Rep. Charles Rangel of New York
Rep. Jose Serrano of New York
Rep. Louise Slaughter of New York
Rep. Edolphus Towns of New York
Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones of Ohio
Rep. Nydia Velazquez of New York
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz of FL
Rep. Anthony Weiner of New York
Thurbert Baker (GA)
Michael Thurmond (GA)
Rep. John Lewis (GA)
Tommy Irvin (GA)
Robert Menendez (NJ)
Michael Mauro (IA)
Gov. Ted Kulongoski (OR)
Rep. Lynn Woolsey (CA)
Sen. Diane Feinstein (CA)
Rep. Dennis Cardoza (CA)
Rep. Jane Harman (CA)
Rep. Tom Lantos (CA)
Rep. Grace Napolitano (CA)
Rep. Laura Richardson (CA)
Lucille Roybal-Allard (CA)
Rep. Brad Sherman (CA)
Rep. Hilda Solis (CA)
Rep. Ellen Tauscher (CA)
Rep. Diane Watson (CA)
Manny Rodriguez (CO)
Maria Handley (CO)
Gov. John Balducci (ME)
Rep. CA Dutch Ruppersberger (MD)
Rep. Barney Frank (MA)
Gov. Ted Strickland (OH)
Rep. Diane DeGette (CO)
VP Walter Mondale (MN)
Rep. David Scott (GA)
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver II (MO)
Gov. Mike Beebe (AR)
Rep. Corrine Brown (FL)
Rep. Kendrick Meek (FL)
Sen. Evan Bayh (IN)
Rep. Tammy Baldwin (WI)
Rep. Yvette D. Clarke (NY)
Rep. Darlene Hooley (OR)
Rep. Bill Pascrell (NJ)
Rep. Albio Sires (NJ)
Sen. Debbie Stabenow (MI)
Rep. Jay Inslee (WA)
Rep. Henry Cuellar (TX)
Rep. Ruben Hinojosa (TX)
Rep. Stephen Lynch (MA)
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (RI)
Rep. Jim Langevin (RI)
Rep. Leonard Boswell (IA)
Rep. Marion Berry (AR)
Rep. Mike Ross (AR)
Rep. Vic Snyder (AR)
Sen. Mark Pryor (AR)
Rep. Joe Sestak (PA)
Rep. Allyson Schwartz (PA)
Gov. Jennifer Granholm (MI)
DNC Dina Titus (NV)
DNC Tim Sullivan (WI)
Rep. Donald Payne (NJ)
Sen. Maria Cantwell (WA)
Del. Donna M Christensen (VI)
DNC Terri McAuliffe
DNC Don Fowler
DNC Joe Andrew
Fmr. Sen. Dick Gephardt
DNC Jackie Stevenson
DNC Rick Stafford
DNC Kenneth McClintock
DNC Francisco Domenec
DNC Jennifer McLellan
DNC Joe Cryan (NJ
DNC Tonio Burgos (NJ)
DNC June Fisher (NJ)
DNC Sandy Opstvedt (IA)
Gov. Tagiola Tulafono (A Samoa)
DNC Fagafaga Langkilde (A Samoa)
DNC Deanna Fuimaono (A Samoa)
DNC Nathaniel Savali (A Samoa)
DNC Mary Eva Candon (DC)
DNC Yolanda Caraway (DC)
DNC Hartina Flournoy (DNC)
DNC Harold Ickes (DC)
DNC Ben Johnson (DC)
DNC Eric Kleinfeld (DC)
DNC Minyon Moore (DC)
DNC Elizabeth Smith (DC)
DNC Marilyn Tyler Brown (DC)
DNC Hubert "Buck" Humphrey (MN)
DNC Dan Parker (IN)
DNC Phoebe Crane (IN)
DNC Bob Pastrick (IN)
DNC Hon. Maria Echaveste (CA)
DNC Doug Brooks (MO)
DNC Sandy Querry (MO)
DNC Bill Owen (TN)
President Bill Clinton
Sen. Hillary Clinton (NY)

Obama
Gov. Rod Blagojevich of Illinois
Gov. Tim Kaine of Virginia
Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois
Rep. Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii
Rep. Melissa Bean of Illinois
Rep. Russ Carnahan of Missouri
Rep. Lacy Clay of Missouri
Rep. John Conyers of Michigan
Rep. Jerry Costello of Illinois
Rep. Elijah Cummings of Maryland
Rep. Artur Davis of Alabama
Rep. Danny Davis of Illinois
Rep. Keith Ellison of Minnesota
Rep. Luis Gutierrez of Illinois
Rep. Phil Hare of Illinois
Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois
Rep. Gwen Moore of Wisconsin
Rep. Bobby Rush of Illinois
Rep. Jan Schakowsky of Illinois
Rep. Adam Smith of Washington
Rep. Robert Wexler of Florida
Del. Eni Faleomavaega of American Samoa
John Millin (WY) - Obama
Rep. Sanford Bishop (GA) - Obama
Hank Johnson (GA) - Obama
Rep. William Delahunt (MA)
Dan Slater (CO)
Rep. Dave Loebsack (IA)
Rep. Betty McCollum (MN)
Rep. Carol Shea-Porter (NH)
Rep. Patrick Murphy (PA)
Rep. Barbara Lee (CA)
Rep. Paul Hodes (NH)
Rep. Jim Cooper (TN)
Rep. Al Green (TX)
Rep. Bobby Scott (VA)
Del. Eni FH Falleomavaga (Am-Samoa)
Sen. Kent Conrad (ND)
Gov. Deval Patrick (MA)
DNC Steven Horsford (NV)
DNC Tom Hynes (IL)
Fmr Sen. Tom Daschle
Gov. Jim Doyle (WI)
DNC Michael Fitzgerald
Mayor Adrian Fenty (DC)
Sen. Barack Obama (IL)

Edwards
Rep. G.K. Butterfield of North Carolina
Rep. Bob Etheridge of North Carolina
Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin of SD
Rep. Charlie Gonzalez of Texas
Rep. Raul Grijalva of Arizona
Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson of Texas
Rep. Mike McIntyre of North Carolina
Rep. Brad Miller of North Carolina
Rep. Jim Oberstar of Minnesota
Rep. David Obey of Wisconsin
Rep. David Price of North Carolina
Rep. Heath Shuler of North Carolina
Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan
Rep. Mel Watt of North Carolina
Rep. Albert Wynn of Maryland (Conflicting information found)
Rep. Michael Michaud (ME)
Rep. Bruce Braley (IA)
DNC Joe Wineke (WI)
DNC Sarah Swisher (IA)
DNC Nancy Larson (MN)
DNC Mary Jo Neville (MD)
DNC Muriel Offerman (NC)
DNC Elisa Parker (TN)
DNC Carol Peterson (NC)
DNC C Richard Cranwell (VA)
DNC Diane Saxe (MA)

Dodd - Withdrawn
Rep. Xavier Becerra of California
Rep. Joe Courtney of Connecticut
Rep. Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut
Rep. Anna Eshoo of California
Rep. Sam Farr of California
Rep. Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island
Rep. John Larson of Connecticut
Rep. Christopher Murphy of Connecticut
Rep. Tim Ryan (OH)
Rep. Linda Sanchez (CA)
Sen. Chris Dodd

Richardson
Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico
Tom Udall of New Mexico
Gene Green of Texas
Silvestre Reyes of Texas
Rep. Mike Doyle (PA)
DNC Debbie Marquez (CO)
DNC Ramona Martinez (CO)
Rep. Ed Pastor (AZ)
Rep. Solomon Ortiz (TX)
DNC Ed Espinoza (CA)
Gov. Bill Richardson (NM)
DNC JW Postal (CO)

Biden - Withdrawn
Sen. Thomas Carper of Delaware
Sen. Joe Biden

Kucinich
Jon Ausman (FL) - Kucinich
Rep. Dennis Kucinich (OH)

Stay tuned... we'll update this list as we find out more.

Aaron Dykes
JonesReport.com
January 8, 2008

Local news station KSLA in Shreveport, Louisiana investigated a strange substance found by a man from the Arkansas-Lousiana-Texas border, which the man collected on the ground from a chemtrail overhead. He noticed the crisscrossed cloud-like lines in the sky as well as the unusual residue it left behind on vehicles after descending in a "haze."

KSLA’s Jeff Ferrell noted that these chemtrails "do not fade away like a normal contrail."

KSLA ran the substances through a lab and found high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature.

81.

Susan -

Thanks for providing that superdelegate list.

Indeed, my own congressman MA's U.S. rep Barney Frank, is a Hillary supporter.  In contrast is the south shore's, Capeand Island's William Delahunt, who is the only MA U.S. rep or U.S. senator to back Barack.

Massachusetts is Hill and Bill country (ditto New Hampshire).

Mr. Delahunt, thanks for standing up to the STATUS QUO forces.

Kucinich is claiming that his bullsh^t paltry 1% (tied w/write-ins") leaves the race "wide open?"

Someone inject him w/an IV line of Clozaril. Maximum strength.

He's a scam artist. Get out, Kucinich, Gravel, & Richardson.

0%-5% doesn't cut it, re: "viability."

I want every candidate to stay in the race. Why would I want to limit my options?

Baldacci is, too--the base in the ME Dem. party has either dropped out; or are more than a tiny bit enraged at him.

He wants to cut another $35M in MaineCare benefits (which affect primarily women--the elderly, DV & rape victims, persons w/mental disorders, and children)--claims that everyone has to "tighten their belts."

When he ran in '06, his own party hardly pulled for him (38%).

Big Dog came to Portland for a Baldacci fundraiser (he refused to use our Clean Elections program--dummy); and they had difficulty in enticing people to attend.

Ticket prices went from $500.00 p.p. (no takers) down to $100.00 p.p. (for convention delegates--as a "deal"); and they *still* had trouble filling the reception. Or making it appear as "filled" for the media.

I'd be shocked if the base supports Billary in the ME caucus (which will be scantily attended, as it is). They can't recruit convenors. It's that dysfunctional, folks.

Lost 10K members since '04 (not good)--progressives have bailed. People are "buckwild" at *status quo*.

I'm not alone.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared-blogs/ajc/politicalinsider/index.html

Wednesday, January 9, 2008, 08:32 AM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

With New Hampshire over, the Georgia primary began in earnest this morning.

On an Atlanta morning radio show, Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin just declared Barack Obama to be her choice in the Democratic race for president — putting herself opposite John Lewis, her mentor Andrew Young, and members of the Maynard Jackson clan. They’re on the side of Hillary Clinton.

...

Seashell -- please check DFA link messages for an OT question when you get a moment.

I'd be shocked if the base supports Billary in the ME caucus (which will be scantily attended, as it is). They can't recruit convenors. It's that dysfunctional, folks.

National primary day. 

0% is an "option?"

Get real.

0% is an "option?"

Get real.

What you advocate is letting the voters of IA and NH decide who should be on my ballot. No thanks. 

There will be no "national primary day" in '08.

Know your state's caucus/primary rules (all Dem. party portals have the info, or should).

As does the DNC's '08 delegate selection plan.

The info is readily available, folks.

Google.

Hey, it's a New Year ! 

"out with the old, in with the new"

Well, New Hampshire said last night:

"Not so fast".

There will be no "national primary day" in '08.

And there won't be in '12, '16, '20, etc. if we wait until then to advocate and push for it. 

Know your state's caucus/primary rules

Even if every candidate you can vote for with a clean conscience has already been winnowed out by 1% of the electorate who vote before you. 

I know there are always conspiracy theories out there,  but it seems there is a big difference between  the pre-election polls (not exit) and actual voting.  I'm no techie, I'm  only stating what different blogs are reporting.  That Clinton only won where the black boxes were used.  When there was a hand count Obama won.

87. The Georgia race should be interesting.

re: Daniel's story about the child whose father didn't take him to the ER. This story has many facets. For one thing, if we had universal healthcare, it wouldn't be an issue. For another, I must comment -- 10 (ten) children? How do you feed, clothe, educate, love, keep up with 10 (ten) children? No wonder he didn't want the ER bill.

Dean had the most super delegates before Iowa

 They are totally un-pledged by the rules and will possibly decide the convention but who they support now isn't worth much unless they have actually joined the campaign. Harry Reid I'm sure leans Hillary but the major Union endorsements of Obama must give him pause because he will lose his seat without them. 

they have the exact same vote as one delegate that is allocated by the peoples vote when the convention ballot is held

put most of them in the category of "leaning" towards the candidate they support, and expect all of the candidates to keep lobbying them right up til the convention

The vote was within the margins of the polls.

That Clinton only won where the black boxes were used.  When there was a hand count Obama won. 

That does put some meat on the suspicion of fraud.

And it must be remembered that the Shaheen machine (the guy who called Obama a crack addict for Hillary) runs the NH Dem party.

Great system for picking nominees, huh? 

To sign moveon petition asking Congress to get off their butts and outlaw electronic voting machines:

http://pol.moveon.org/paper2008/?id=11876-29342-_qWzKn&t=1

Dean had the most super delegates before Iowa

That doesn't make it right or even stink less. 

Edwards should pick up his share of the delegates in the Feb 5th states if you study the map of which ones they are, but he will need some wins that day. I would never bet on a horse that always led at the quarter pole unless it was Secretariat.

You need to win half of the delegates plus one before you can even think the contest is over

I'm off from my second job tonight and am not in the mood for watching any news.  I think I'll watch something enlightening, like some Mr. Bean episodes. Such as this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9xR2MI2KQo

and for those still in the Christmas Spirit:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/87720/mr_bean/

Super delegates are a good idea. Of course a Senator or Congressman shouldn't have to compete for a say in the Party's choice.

We aren't electing anyone we are selecting a nominee.

Of course a Senator or Congressman shouldn't have to compete for a say in the Party's choice.

Why not? I do.  If we are the party of the people, then any one vote should be worth any one other vote.  Until 1976, that was the way it was.  The establishment only changed the rules after they lost control in 1972.

Newsflash:

Any of you a member of your state DSC, or national DNC Rules committee?

http://www.democrats.org/a/convention_20...

I didn't think so.

'08 state and national delegate selection plans are already set.

Dealing in wishful thinking hypotheticals is ludicrous--too late.

Research, people...you're online thousands of hrs. per year.

REMINDER:

If you are an registered Democrat you have the right to lobby your states DNC Superdelegates to vote for your candidate.
Please find out who they are and start writing and calling them today. Show up at their local offices if they're your Elected and show up at your State Party's E-board meetings and conventions. Run for one of these positions. Run for a delegate to the DNC Convention.

I want our party back!

 Help the cause if you can:

James  (my husband)

There is something happening in America.

A week ago we were 14 points behind, and no one imagined that we'd accomplish what we did in New Hampshire last night.

There is something happening when Americans who have never participated in politics turn out in numbers we've never seen before.

There is something happening when people vote not just for the party they belong to but the hopes they hold in common.

Change is what's happening in America.

We are ready to take this country in a fundamentally new direction, but we need your help to make it happen.

You got us this far. But we are about to enter the most decisive period of the campaign. We need to act immediately to build up our organization to compete in Nevada, South Carolina, and the 22 states that will hold their contests on February 5th.

Please make a donation of $25 now:

https://donate.barackobama.com/yeswecan

We can lead this nation out of a long political darkness.

We can overcome the division and distraction that have clouded Washington.

Because when we challenge ourselves to reach for something better, there's no problem we can't solve -- no destiny we cannot fulfill.

Thank you,

Barack

Tom wrote:

I view McCain in 2008 as indistinguishable from his identity in 2000.  Same obstinate party contrarian, same rogue state rollback militarist, same staunch conservative hated by Rush Limbaugh and the evangelical right.

Tom, there are,alas, many things that distinguish McCain 2008 from McCain 2000, none of them to his credit

In 2000, the "straight-talk express", though exaggerated, had some meaning and resonance. McCain was taking on the necons and the Christian right, and was somewhat progressive in his social views. He supported fiscally responsible tax and monetary policies.

The 2008 version embraces Bob Jones University, Falwell's loonies, and Bush's wars. He's homophobic, anti-choice, and basically anti-immigrant, though not as Neanderthal as the others.

Look for him to revert to his 2000 positions in the unlikely event that he is nominated.

You may recall that when Oler was singing his praises, I gave an Arizonan's perspective on his failings, which are many.

IMO the lessons of last night ?

a woman can cry (Hillary Clinton) and a man cannot (Ed Muskie)

~~~~~~~~~~~

Have you forgotten Romney has cried or teared up 3 times in the last few weeks. Once on Meet the Press, once when eh made his religion speech & one other time which at this moment escapes me. Nothing was said or replayed over & over on those incidents.

Also, I have not been a Hillary supporter just as most are not on this blog, but the treatment she has received by media & the remarks made, especially, by Matthews, have been dispicable. They are only rivaled by what was done to Howard Dean.

I am beginning to rout (sp) for her.. I'm not sure of anything else like voting for her, but I am sure willing to give her a "you go girl". 

You have no idea and delude yourself if you think you do. 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hmm, I dont know about delusional but I think Reagan 1980, 84......Bush 88.......Bush 2000 and 2004 speaks for itself.................what happeneed in 1992 and 96?  Well, in 92 some common sense prevailed for a time, and 96 people didnt want to take a chance..............

Hope you got yourslef a large garage door........

Some of us have advocated for a one-day national primary election day.
The only way this would work is by taking the money out of the system and having publicly funded elections.
If not, the winner will be one with the person with the most money and name appeal.
A one day election where the money is allocated two weeks ahead of time. Since candidates cannot raise money, there will be little to spend and very little advertising. There will be speeches and oped pieces which is fine. Get the money out and we will have a Democracy again.

Yeah, I know, dream on.

Super delagates are not a good idea. The reason is blocks of non-voters have more weight then individual votes. That only changes if the Dem leadership is removed from the DCDems.

Dealing in wishful thinking hypotheticals is ludicrous--too late.

Yeah, and it will be "too late" next time too. 

As a long-time McCain supporter until 2000...
The current edition has no relationship to the old version except in name only. If the 2000 version was running, I would consider voting for him. But this version is a very dangerous mutation of the origional.

#108, Thanks Susan for the info and reminder.  We do need to make the effort.  We can exert an influence, and if we believe in our candidate, we must.

I'm feeling trust for Senator Obama, and that hasn't happened since Howard Dean.  Maybe that's a big part of any candidacy, trust.  Do you believe in what the candidates says and does? For me, Obama shows the quality of mind that is reasonable, that looks for the solution or stance that reflects his ideals and what he knows about how things work.

To be a child of mixed race, to have lived in Hawaii  and Indonesia among different cultures, to have had a mother who is an anthropologist, to have lost a father, to have become President of the Law Review at Harvard, to have turned down corporate employment, to have worked on the South Side of Chicago as a comminty organizer, to have served well and with accolades in the Illinois Legislature, this is no lightweight.  This person is a fighter, and he has the intellectual and ethical attributes that I think we desperately need.

Well, off for a while.  

I think Howard had a premonition when the DNC said no Florida delegates would be seated in Denver. I hope they hold firm -- this is, as Paz said on the previous blog, Clinton country. It won't make any difference if she wins or loses here except possibly for the influence of the vote count here.

All Dem names are on the "preferential vote" ballot along with one state tax amendment.

I am a poll worker and we expect a very tepid turnout, so the preferential vote probably won't have much weight no matter who wins.

If not, the winner will be one with the person with the most money and name appeal.

As opposed to the same way it is now?

We can't make people vote how we want and we can't make them vote responsibly as we see it. But we can advocate a system that is equal for all, simple to understand, and beyond backroom manipulation.

typos again, sorry

As a long-time McCain supporter until 2000...
The current edition has no relationship to the old version except in name only.

Prior to 2000 he was one of the Keating Five. Lobbyists treated his office like a party pad. 

On Yahoo - the woman who questioned Hillary on how she was doing - she voted for Obama. LOL

The visible and vocal "Iron My Shirt!" Freeper protesters also pissed off women voters.

Again--those over forty had dealt with sexism in all facets of their lives; and they struck back resoundingly (for the wrong candidate, IMMHO).

That shit might have worked w/our mothers and grandmothers--and with the Desperate Housewife crowd (doesn't work w/Moi, trust me)!

Two ex-husbands would attest to it....

Iron your own effin' shirt, or pay someone else to do it.

(Men in the military seem to get along fine w/domestic self-care chores, eh)?

It was overtly misogynistic; and got decent news media airplay (reinforced "the boys are ganging up on me" meme).

Most misogyny is covert or systemic these days (e.g., Dem. party committees who perceive for some wacky reason that women will bake, plan, clean up for "fundraisers;" and do lowly clerical sh^t in a campaign office on a volunteer basis--for NO $$$).

Google a damned recipe, and DIY.

I'm nobody's maid, chef, or "secretary."

The labor unions (at least in my areas) are still blatantly sexist--their partners allow it. Positions of power and sexualized division of labor are so obvious, it's pathetic.

Translation of "Let's have potluck!": we want homecooked meals by women. One woman (local labor activist) still freakin' cuts her 28 yr. old *adult* son's vegetables and fruit for him on a daily basis (has a special knife for said "task").

...after working the graveyard shift at one of the few surviving paper mills (and donating her free time to union activities/neverending meetings).

I'd guesstimate that he's never ironed a shirt in his life--let alone, knows how to survive on his own.

Unbelievable...she's a Baby Boomer, BTW. Classic enmeshed enabler.

Suffice to say, I am no longer a volunteer officer of that labor-related org's committee (who call themselves "progressive," BTW).

Get real, Democrats.

Billary pandered, and got away w/it.

Expect more in future.

111.

jao,

The fact that you might consider voting for Hillary because you think she is getting a raw deal in the media is exactly the kind of thinking that creates candidates who are not capable and/or not the best candidate.

This is a presidential primary for heaven's sake, not a race for dog catcher.

So much is on the line. Just for starters, Hillary would not end this war, she would keep it going to suit her big donors. More Americans would die. Maybe she would continue Bush's policy of provoking Iran.

Still thinking about voting for her because you feel sorry for her??? I hope not.

Of course a Senator or Congressman shouldn't have to compete for a say in the Party's choice.

Always an apologist for party insiders and advocate of machination. 

ISSUES THAT ARE "OFF THE TABLE" FOR PREZ CANDIDATES

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_timothy__080109_the_issues_the_candi.htm

1. The corporate hold on the American political system.

While some candidates decry the way that corporations have managed to control who gets nominated and thus elected, there is no candidate that speaks about how this nation can rid itself from corporate influence.

2. The erosion of our civil liberties.

In this particular area of American life, nothing has been as dramatic as our loss of civil liberties.

3. The Military Industrial Complex

The point here is not to blame everything on the MIC, but to take a good look at how much this nation chooses to spend on its military. When we spend 51% of our budget on military expenditures (this does not include the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan), we must also look at what we are sacrificing in other areas to compete with the two closest nations as it comes to military spending, Russia and China that spend 6% of the money that we do on their defense capabilities.

The only candidates that address this issue are Paul, Gravel and Kuchinich. Where are the other candidates on this issue? If you listen to the Republican field of Presidential contenders, they call for more spending on our military. How can the candidates fund health insurance for all and better schools and better pay for teachers when fully half of our budget goes to military procurement.

4. The Crimes committed by the Bush Administration.

This is not an attack section of this article. The facts are that President Bush and Vice-President Cheney have repeatedly lied about issues that led us into a war with Iraq. They have engaged in illegal surveillance of American citizens, they have condoned the use of torture on suspected terrorists and they have engaged in a practice called “extraordinary rendition” in which suspected terrorists have been put on an aircraft and delivered to countries that practice torture to gain information. Where is the outrage on this issue by any of the leading candidates?

5. The Truth about September 11th, 2001.

Some polls show that over 50% of the American people do not believe that the official report by the 9/11 Commission answered all the questions that have been asked about 9/11.

111.

jao -

Well, you'd be with spirited company today, good luck:

fyi - A person who I know on my first job came by saying "Hillary !" "Hillary !" near my workspace.  She then stopped by my desk and asked me if I support Hillary and I said "No".  She asked me: "Then, whom are you going to vote for ?"  [understand this -- that same person I had told her that I supported Obama just two days ago].  I told her: "Obama".  She simply replied: "No".  She then proceded to move on, saying "Hillary !" Hillary !"   She BTW is over 50 years old.

fyi - Another person who I know on my second job a week or so ago saying how she would not vote for Barack Obama because he lacks foreign policy experience, whereas Hillary has plenty of experience.  She did say Barack is a nice guy but that's the only nice thing she could say about him.   She BTW is over 50 years old.

Joan - My vote will cancel out a vote for a candidate who feels sorry for another candidate.

BTW my wife is over 50 years old.  She's not voting for Hillary.

rd - Hillary's foreign policy *experience* got us into the mess we're in. Just sayin.

Where Paper Prevailed, Different Results

2008 New Hampshire Democratic Primary Results --Total Democratic Votes: 286,139 - Machine vs Hand (RonRox.com) 09 Jan 2008
Hillary Clinton, Diebold Accuvote optical scan: 39.618%
Clinton, Hand Counted Paper Ballots: 34.908%
Barack Obama, Diebold Accuvote optical scan: 36.309%
Obama, Hand Counted Paper Ballots: 38.617%
Machine vs Hand:
Clinton: 4.709% (13,475 votes)
Obama: -2.308% (-6,604 votes)

http://www.legitgov.org/nh_machine_vs_paper.html

130. That's funny because the results didn't match up with the exit polling either.

A quick drop in to say, I had been reading comments and thought I would make an obsversation.


Joan wrote:


111.
The fact that you might consider voting for Hillary because you think she is getting a raw deal in the media is exactly the kind of thinking that creates candidates who are not capable and/or not the best candidate.

This is a presidential primary for heaven's sake, not a race for dog catcher.

So much is on the line. Just for starters, Hillary would not end this war, she would keep it going to suit her big donors. More Americans would die. Maybe she would continue Bush's policy of provoking Iran.

Still thinking about voting for her because you feel sorry for her??? I hope not.

______________________________

I can't agree more with Joan's argument for getting a vote. The problem is, if you see the reasons she's giving, they are the reasons most Obama supporters are thiking of giving Obama a vote.

Sad, this blog has just become the Anti blog. It's seems the reasons Obama is getting support is for nothing but being Anti Hillary and because, as being the Corporate Media's other front runner, he already has more of the support, so he's the safer bet. LOL

I can understand the hostility here now. THey are not FOR him. It's hard to be for the same thing of which you claim to be opposed. And I am actually seeing people now tell the Populist and Progressive candidate to get out, in hopes of trying to give more votes to the Anti Hillary.....ONLY, AS YOU WON'T ADMIT...IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. It is because they are the same. A different package on the same product doesn't make it a better product, just more paper to get through to find out you've been duped. You can't sell just being against. BUT, most people here know they are being duped, just not willing to admit it.

How will you get the Real change we need? INDEED...you won't, because of your actions. Sell out, to be against one person.

Oh and...how one loss has changed. Obama supporters kept claiming they'll vote for any Dem in November.(raise you hand ...everyone lower on the totem poll, get off, because we'll rally around the eventual nominee-NOT).....now that he lost one primary...and the others have left...it's "Hillary will never get my vote". SEE?

Linda - *Most* Obama supporters. Is this anecdotal evidence or your gut feeling on why people support Obama?

111

I am a 63 year old woman.  Your you go girl makes me sick to my stomach.  This is a presidential election not a high school prom.

I have 3 children, and 5 grandchildren, 1 great grandchild.  I sure as hell don't want their future put into the hands of Clinton.  

Sad, this blog has just become the Anti blog.

You were pretty "anti" yourself until a few days ago. Now, possibly because the wheels are falling off the bandwagon you decided jump on, you sound anti-blog. 

Think about it. 

33.

It isn't possible to change the process while it's underway.  The time to change it is when the DNC meets.   Indeed, that's one of the things that delegates should be focused on this summer.  At present, we are operating under rules that were set up under the aegis of McAuliffe, before Dean came on the scene. 

I hope the candidates address the issue with Iran - because I believe the Bush is ready to attack Iran. IMO, Hillary will continue to take us in that direction. That is scary as hell to me...

s/b that Bush.

The time to change it is when the DNC meets.

And the time to advocate and build support for it is before the DNC meets. That time is now.

135.

Sitka



Sad, this blog has just become the Anti blog.

You were pretty "anti" yourself until a few days ago

______________________

LOL...no, I've never been part of the Anti....as you rightfully put, I'm ON a Bandwagon. As I said when I chose John Edwards, I like what he is representing. I'm not just going to vote against someone.

Mary...yes, I said MOST. That is even how the voting happened. The men to stop HIllary. Read the comments even. That's what is being said for MOST.

Ciao!

I have 3 children, and 5 grandchildren, 1 great grandchild.  I sure as hell don't want their future put into the hands of Clinton.

Hopefully your preferred candidate, as well as the rest, will still be around when your turn to vote finally rolls around. 

CHUCKMAN ON McCAIN

http://www.counterpunch.org/chuckman01092008.html

My observation about the importance of intelligence in high office instantly excludes from that office John McCain, whose facade of freshness and independent-mindedness during the 2000 campaign was stripped away in a series of belly-crawling apologies to the Religious Right and Bush, a performance crowned by a tearful, knees-bent, televised hugging of Bush around the middle, reminding one of a tableau from a 17th century artist showing a follower touching Christ's garment.

And talk about pride in stupidity, McCain actually said recently that he would have invaded Iraq even without the issue of weapons of mass destruction. But McCain never saw a bombing run he didn't like one of the main reasons he is supported by that shriveled ghoul, Senator Lieberman and he has a vicious temper, undoubtedly inherited from father the admiral. Five and half years in a Vietnamese prison taught him nothing: he still believes he was doing the Lord's work when he was shot-down while bombing civilians in the Hanoi area.

And just on aesthetic grounds, McCain looks as puffy and lumpy and weather-beaten as original-equipment tires from a 1929 Ford. If McCain lasted long enough to serve his term, he'd resemble King Tut's unwrapped mummy by the end.

LOL...no, I've never been part of the Anti....

Calling the top three contenders, "Mr.Photogenic, Mr. Charisma, and (whatever you called Hillary),  wasn't anti? Not to mention months of posts pointing out bad things about all of them?

I think I need to take my dictionary in for a tuneup. 

Joan* In*Florida
Wed, 01/09/08

Voting for hope is an easy sell. Everyone wants hope. But what does it mean? Obama is becoming more and more vague in order to appeal to the widest number.

Audacity to hope? I hope he has the audacity to take on entrenched interests and lead. He hasn't shown that to me yet.

rae hart
Wed, 01/09/08

- What is the source of this data?  All I could link to was a Ron Paul site, but no actual real back-up.

 - Look at the exit polling if you take the  Women X The Percentage that say they voted for Clinton, then add the percentage that were men X the percentage that voted for Clinton....then do the same for Obamo and you will see that the exit polls were right on.

Total

Women

Men

Exit

Actual

57.0%

43.0%

100.0%

Clinton

% for Clinton

46.0%

29.0%

Gender X % for Clinton

26.2%

12.5%

38.7%

39.0%

Actual

Obama

% for Obama

34.0%

40.0%

Gender X % for Obama

19.4%

17.2%

36.6%

37.0%

Actual

130.

So who really DID win in New Hampshire and will the true hand-counted figures determine the outcome or do we have to put up with some more Sheehan shenanigans?

Obama's lawyers should be staying behind in NH to make certain of honest results.

I am sick of train or bus metaphors.

I'm not getting on any train or bus when I don't know its destination. That would be foolish!

Edwards should stay in the race to help Obama define himself if for nothing else. Of course, Edwards has his own campaign and ideas so he should stay in for us.

Dean dropped out too early last time and look what we ended up with...

I have not been one of those screaming over voting machines, but if someone has another explanation for these numbers (and those on the GOP side) I'd love to hear it.

http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS 

I do hate repeating myself, but there has been no win and no loss.  The voters in two states have selected a small number of delegates who are pledged to a particular candidate on the first ballot at the convention. 

That the candidates are in control of the process is a convenient fiction--convenient because it makes them feel less beholden to the electorate; convenient for a media that like to cover sports more than politics, mostly because each game has a definite ending and the participants do actually win, tie or lose.  But, saying that an election is like a sporting match doesn't make it so.  Betting on an election doesn't make it into a horse race. 

What bothers me about this is that the inability to define who's actually doing what and to whom and for what purpose is pervasive in American society and very likely accounts for why so much just doesn't get done.  If you're counting on gas to get you to work and what you're missing is a vehicle to put it in, then no matter how many gallons of gas you have, you're not going to get to work.

This is not an entirely far-fetched example because we've got lots of people agitated about the price of heating oil, while the fact that more and more people don't have a house to keep warm or cool or lighted at night seems to be ignored. 

145.

Steve,

If you listen to Obama at all he tells you a lot about the meaing of hope. It doesn't need explaining. It has positive meanings for many people. It is similar to Dean's "Take Back Our  Country." Dean never had to explain that this meant hope.

One of Obama's new themes is, "Yes We Can!"  That's the equivilent of, "You Have the Power." I expect Hillary to pick up on that one as soon as today; she's plagerized every other theme he has had.

KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD

http://www.counterpunch.org/lind01092008.html

In fact, kicking the can down the road, more formally a strategy of delay, makes good sense in the face of Iraqi realities ­ provided we do something with the time gained. Regrettably, it appears we are doing little but sitting on our bayonets, waiting, like Mr. McCawber, for something to turn up.

The Bush administration will not make a decision to withdraw no matter how favorable the opportunity. It has adopted the ugly baby approach, planning to hand the war off to its (probably Democratic) successor.

But what of the Democrats who control both Houses of Congress? Why do they keep funding the war, as they just did again?

The reasons are several, and none of them are pretty. Obviously, Democrats think they will garner more votes in November if the war is still going on with no end in sight. Running against "Bush's war" appears more promising than ending it.

Most of the leading Democratic Presidential candidates are ambiguous, at best, about ending the war in Iraq if they win. Why? In part, because just as the neo-cons now dominate Republican circles, so the Democratic Establishment is in thrall to the neo-liberals. Both cabals of neos favor a world-dominating American empire, run of course by themselves. We are reminded once again that while there may be, at least on paper, two parties, there is one Establishment. It does not look favorably on ending the games off which it feeds.

Then there is the matter of a certain Small Middle Eastern Country which likes the war in Iraq, and hopes for a war on Iran as well. Said SMEC speaks with a loud voice in Democratic Party circles, the voice of campaign contributions. Never does money speak more audibly than in an election year.

I have not been one of those screaming over voting machines, but if someone has another explanation for these numbers (and those on the GOP side) I'd love to hear it.

For once I'd like see our guardians of democracy in the press use their vast resources to dig up the truth (and not sit on it).

The internet seems to be doing a good job, but not enough people learn and pay attention if it's only them. 

I appreciate all the comments regarding my post on Hillary's treatment by the media & my reaction to it. I had a post written in response, but it somehow got "disappeared". Haven't got time to go any further at the moment, but maybe, it'll show up somewhere ,who knows. 

Edwards should stay in the race

I'm not for Edwards, but I'm for him staying in. Does that make me a liar? 

Si,se puede (Cesar Chavez's use of the term was quite successful)

Yes, we can!

151. Joan - Hillary will be saying *YES, I CAN*

Conservative, or Just Plain Corrupt? By David Sirota

Through their ethics scandals, Republicans in Washington long ago began making the word conservative synonymous with the term corrupt. Surprisingly, though, it is a group of Democrats that is cementing this definitional conversion for good.

In the midst of the housing crisis, a cadre of self-described “conservative” Democrats called the Blue Dog Coalition is demanding that congressional leaders delay legislation designed to help people trapped in high-interest loans stay in their homes and avoid foreclosure. The bill, House Resolution 3609, allows judges to ameliorate the terms of abusive “subprime” mortgages. Rep. Brad Miller, D-N.C., is championing it—a gutsy move for a lawmaker whose state domiciles major lenders.

The Blue Dogs say they oppose Miller’s initiative out of concern for the integrity of the 2005 bankruptcy bill—a telling justification. Under that odious law, millionaires can shield their mansions from creditors, and corporate executives (think: Enron guys) can prevent ripped-off shareholders and employees from seizing their holdings. Harvard’s Elizabeth Warren notes that the law also “permits people with vacation homes and investment property to rework their mortgages in bankruptcy.” ...full article: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/2007...

The brutal sentimentality of Ol’ Shrimp Slayer and other municipal discontent

Constituents of Rep. Dennis Cardoza, Shrimp Slayer-Merced, received on Friday a newsletter titled “Foreclosure Event,” announcing a foreclosure-counseling session in Stockton for Saturday, co-hosted by Rep. Jerry “HighTek” McNerney, Pombo’s Replacement-Pleasanton. On the surface, this is one more episode in the Denny Show in which the ol’ slayer demonstrates his compassion for constituents (on one days notice) ...full article: http://www.badlandsjournal.com/?p=417

Upcoming Hilmar Cheese decision stinks
The Central Valley regional Water Quality Control Board is set to approve a deal between regulators and Hilmar Cheese Co. on Nov. 29 that would “grant the world’s largest cheesemaker sweeping immunity for hundreds of water pollution violations – and for future offenses.” (1)

How did this happen? We can only guess.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger appointed Hilmar Cheese founder, Chuck Ahlem, to the state Department of Food and Agriculture in January 2004, apparently under the apprehension Ahlem was an “environmental” dairyman. (2) When the Sacramento Bee broke the story this year that Hilmar Cheese – far from being an icon of environmentalism – had been cited by this same board numerous times for water quality violations and, somehow, nothing had been done about them. Exposed, Ahlem resigned from the CDFA and the water quality board fined the cheese company $4 million. Some in the Valley thought the fine made a good press release. ...

... Hilmar can count of local support from elected officials. Rep. Dennis Cardoza, Shrimp Slayer-Merced is a member of the House Resources and Agriculture committees, and is co-author with Rep. RichPAC Pombo, Buffalo Slayer-Tracy of the Gut-the-ESA bill. State Sen. Jeff Denham, R-Salinas (or Merced – he can’t quite remember which) is chairman of the state Sen. Agriculture Committee. State Assemblywoman Barbara Matthews, D-Tracy, is chairwoman of the Assembly Agriculture Committee, a member of Assembly Water, Parks and Wildlife, and of the Assembly Select Committee on Water, Infrastructure and the Economy. Each is a beneficiary of dairy largesse through the various associations and PACs the industry generates as abundantly as it produces government commodities.

Monday, an official of the State Water Resources Control Board, which oversees the state’s regional water quality boards, wrote the Central Valley board urging it to reject this settlement.

“We are deeply concerned with the precedent of granting immunity from civil liability for all such past and future violations,” said John Norton, chief of the state Office of Statewide Initiatives.

Three of the Republicans among the five new appointees to the Central Valley board for which we have public information would seem capable of voting for anything pro-agriculture, anti-environmental, particularly when it would help a prominent Republican dairyman, despite the decision stinking as highly as Hilmar on a bad day. ...full story: http://www.badlandsjournal.com/?p=18

Congressman Dennis Cardoza (CA-18) Endorses Hillary http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/relea...

Stat Man - Are you saying the exit polls were correct?

111

I am a 63 year old woman.  Your you go girl makes me sick to my stomach.  This is a presidential election not a high school prom.

I have 3 children, and 5 grandchildren, 1 great grandchild.  I sure as hell don't want their future put into the hands of Clinton.  

~~~~~~~~

Just before I take off, You're definitely entitled to your opinion, as I am. I will not vote for someone because I feel sorry for them or because I like their wife or because they move me  emotionally & feel inspired when I hear them speak. I will vote for someone who has guts, determination, intelligence, follow thru., integrity, & the ability to say what they mean & mean what they say. Any of those around?  My options are open. 

157.

mary,

LOL I don't doubt that you are right.

I'm not for Edwards, but I'm for him staying in. Does that make me a liar? 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No.....it just makes alot of us here.......confused.

160

I will vote for someone who has guts, determination, intelligence, follow thru., integrity, & the ability to say what they mean & mean what they say. Any of those around?  My options are open. 

``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Well you won't be voting for Clinton will you?

145.

Let's look at it this way.  The President is a figurehead.  The idea that he's reponsible for anything is a Republican fiction, perpetrated by people who want to pass the buck to one shmuck.  The fact is that Bush Two and his minions are all a bunch of crooks.  It's a criminal organization that's taken over a state, including control over a lot of really nasty weapons.

What bothers me about the Clintons is that they are in the same organization as the Bushes and so, for that matter, is Huckabee and, very likely Romney.  That Obama's campaign is being run by Gebhardt (Missouri Mafia) retreads is not reassuring, but one hopes that Michelle has sufficient self-assurance that she won't let him get sucked into the cesspool.

I wouldn't worry too much about Iran.  China and Russia have pretty much made it clear that Iraq is as far as it goes.  If the U.S. doesn't learn from having its nose blodied by a bunch of folk in sandals and robes, then the lesson will just have to be more direct.  Iraq was a Soviet client state that Reagan/Bush thought they could wean away.  So, they paid bribes of all kinds but, when it became clear that what was wanted was a permanent listening post in southwest Asia, they couldn't close the deal.  If we don't want Russian missiles in Cuba, why should Russia want ours in Iraq?  Because we've got some in Turkey?  Perhaps those are an example of "give them the little finger and they'll take the whole hand."  Or, perhaps the stuff we have set up at Incirlik is anitquated and the Turks won't let us bring up-grades in. 

Trying to remember which CNN panel member was saying.... that the (Murdoch, Republican) newspaper headlines about the Iowa loss, were so RUDE and VICIOUS against Hillary - that it really inspired her people to get out there.  That's what Bill Clinton was talking about - the bias media.   And - she was herself, the 'tear up' was real.  Good to see that.   I've seen Bill Clinton, George Bush Sn, and George W. Bush - tear up.  Made them human - made them one of us.

Finally, some Republican nasty dirty tricks backfired big time.

jao:

*Never* have I voted for Collins or Snowe--simply because they're women/have a vagina (both have been in D.C. for a loooooooooooooooong time, unfortunately).

They're complicit (hell, both support warmongerer, McCain--along w/the misogynistic shrub regime for years on end).

Both profess to be pro-woman.

{{{shrug}}}

Bullsh^t.

However, Susan has already pulled the notorious "they're bullying me" meme w/our notorious "tracker" debacle (Tom Allen is running against her).

http://tinyurl.com/36jcrw

Never a good idear to play the victim/fake/cry wolf.

You can bet that the RNC is licking their chops--that video will be played incessantly ("too emotional to be 'strong on terror'").

I will say that, yes--women candidates do receive incessant barrages about their physical appearance (e.g., *any* wrinkles, makeup, hair color and cut, & clothing styles/colors, etc.).

Hillary was a Wellesley grad.--she didn't suddenly "find her voice" a couple of days ago. That's total b/s.

"Voice" and essence of autonomous self are indeed massive feminist issues (see Dixie Chicks fmi).

However, Clinton manipulated the situation in the cafe, in order to meet her own needs (upset that she was tanking in the polls; and political career could be kaput).

When men are caught showing emotion in public (which is why they croak mucho sooner than women with coronary disease), they're perceived as "weak" (faggot--homophobic and misogynistic response); and women (natch) must be a bitch/too "emotional" to handle tough foreign policy issues.

Yadayada.

Here's Gary Hart speaking some much needed common sense:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-hart/...

Sam - She was tearing up because she was losing. Cripes.

I'm not for Edwards, but I'm for him staying in. Does that make me a liar? 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No.....it just makes alot of us here.......confused.

I think it only confuses those who care more about their preferred candidate than the process itself. 

Now I will go write a post about this year's DFA fund-raising letter that arrived by snail mail today.

168.

mary vb -

Sam is a long supporter here of Hillary.  That's fine but his human statements should be less encompassing and be framed with a IMO.

Joan* In*Florida
Wed, 01/09/08

I don't think hope is self-explanatory at all. It needs to be made concrete in reference to detailed plans and ideas. Obama makes a fine speech. But I am still left wondering what he will actually DO if he could indeed unite a working majority. I want details and specifics.

Dean gave thoses specifics. Take back our country is NOT the same as Yes, we can. WE all understood that take back our country was taking it back from Bush and defining who and what we stood for as an alternative. Obama has yet to do that, at least for me to support him

I will be listening, but his voice is getting more and more vague as he doesn't want to alienate any voting block.

...And - she was herself, the 'tear up' was real.  Good to see that.   I've seen Bill Clinton, George Bush Sn, and George W. Bush - tear up.  Made them human - made them one of us....

Calling Bush "one of us" says a lot about who one really is.

Citizens For Legitimate Government

is a very progressive website.

But it still doesn't say exactly where the official handcounted vote count comes from. Are the figures legit? Is there a second handcount going on.

Monica,

Does NH have all paper ballots, all Diebolds or a mix?

You know, what is this tearing up about? 

I'm a woman and I can get teary eyed on the drop of a hat.

No one seems to be mentioning, two minutes later she was right back to her shrilly self again.

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lets switch gears for a moment.......not to make you sick, but your thoughts on the Republican side.......who will be their nominee, or VP choice.......for my money, id go with a Mccain/Huckabee ticket.......theres not much else left to choose from.......Romney is finished.

dog wrote regarding McCain "The current edition has no relationship to the old version except in name only. If the 2000 version was running, I would consider voting for him."

The fact that you, a veteran and a long time former Republican, would consider voting for a 2000 version of McCain, and that Rich, a veteran,  worked for McCain's nomination in 2000, doesn't make the 2000 and 2008 McCain campaign's different.  It simply indicates that McCain's highly conservative 2000 campaign to rid the world of anti-American rulers and impose his simplistic moral code on American citizens was well disguised behind the fatuous "Straight Talk Express" he used to pander to the press who, in turn, spoon fed the public the feel good McCain stories you recall with such fondness.

Mixed in with the lovable, cranky curmudgeon who hates pork and earmarks, version 2 is on full display this cycle. 

Mike wrote "not to make you sick, but your thoughts on the Republican side.......who will be their nominee, . . . theres not much else left to choose from.......Romney is finished."

I'm predicting Romney.

his voice is getting more and more vague

John Edwards, Vague but Fierce

rae hart
Wed, 01/09/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good point rae, MSNBC and KO did point that out, I hope they pound that into peoples heads....

Now, with regard to crying..to me there isnt much wrong with it........hell, i still cry a bit at the end of Its a Wonderful Life and parts of Mr Hollands Opus.......its supposd to be good for you I read..releases endorphins or something or other.........

Lets switch gears for a moment.......not to make you sick, but your thoughts on the Republican side.......who will be their nominee, or VP choice.......

I have no idea who Dems will choose, much less Repos who are infinitely less intelligent and more gullible. 

You know, what is this tearing up about? 

I'm a woman and I can get teary eyed on the drop of a hat.

No one seems to be mentioning, two minutes later she was right back to her shrilly self again.

+++

rae -

It's called Rinse and Repeat and I expect that that strategy it will be redeployed often by the C Machine in primaries and caucuses ahead:

IMO the lessons of last night ?

a woman can cry (Hillary Clinton) and a man cannot (Ed Muskie)

a woman can raise her voice (Hillary Clinton) and a man cannot (Howard Dean)

173.

Dean gave thoses specifics. Take back our country is NOT the same as Yes, we can. WE all understood that take back our country was taking it back from Bush and defining who and what we stood for as an alternative. Obama has yet to do that, at least for me to support him

Steve,

LOL. I wrote that Yes, We Can equates to You Have the Power (not Take back our country.)

Obama is not getting more vague, he is getting more eplicit.

It may be that if you are coming into his speeches, not having heard previous ones, they might be harder to pick up on. In any event, if you don't know what hope is or feels like, then I just can't explain it to anyone who doesn't.

rae hart
Wed, 01/09/08

it was her warm and fuzzy moment. If you look closely she was tearing up because life on the campaign trail was so hard after losing Iowa. In response to the question about how does she keep her head up. Poor Hillary. She isn't the inevitable candidate she thought she was.

Watch the video; she quickly adds how she doesn't want to go backward as a country and then attacks Obama. So Obama would be taking the country backward?

First Hilalry was made more human by laughing, and now by crying.

What else is coming down the pike ?

typo - Hilalry  s/b - Hillary

Joan,

Hope and unity themes are general and vague. Notice that Obama doesn't specify what to hope for. He doesn't want to get specific or say how he will do it except somehow he'll work with the other side. Of course, we all know what hope is and desire unity, but that doesn't say much. It just makes you feel good.

I want specific goals, not watered down or hopelessly compromised from the beginning like his health care program which will not provide universal coverage.

Appealing to broad themes that nearly everyone can agree with is not leadership. It is deceptive and sets us up. Tell us what he will do.

NH Balloting laws:

http://tinyurl.com/23lfyp

What else is coming down the pike ?

Well, "Where's the Beef?" has already been used. But what I've heard several times over the past few days from the wags is "Poetry vs. Prose." Look for that to be the next mass nauseation.

177.

Michael Ellis
Wed, 01/09/08


Lets switch gears for a moment.......not to make you sick, but your thoughts on the Republican side.......
------------

...lol, Mike on either side IT DOES NOT MATTER!

Clinton/Obama - Romney/McCain/Hackabee it does not make any difference!

It is Demos' turn..., lol, they are next in line.
Coffer has been emptied; it is their "responsibility" to fill it in AGAIN for the....next cycle..., lol.

Hope and unity themes are general and vague.

So is "For the millions of unheard voices in our country." 

rdorgan, I understand your sadness over the death of your cat and I apologize for not posting this sooner  Bless you.

What was that about the hand count?

By Nancy Tobi
Democracy for
New Hampshire

Introduction. The more things stay the same, the worse they smell

By Michael Collins
"Scoop" Independent News
Washington, D.C.

Tomorrow's New Hampshire primary represents a major turning point in the presidential primaries. We've got the rising star of Obama, the stunned Clinton camp, and the populist efforts of the fast moving Democrat, John Edwards, just off a 9% increase in the national polls. At this juncture, the Republican race is less compelling unless you happen to be John McCain or Mitt Romney.

Does Obama's highly favorable corporate media image stack up against reality? Is this the end of Hillary, or at least the beginning of the end? Can Edwards kick in the door with a strong showing and demand coverage? Will Ron Paul embarrass Giuliani by edging him out for fourth?

We'll never know for sure.

Why? It's been nearly eight years since the debacle of Florida and nearly six since the miracle Chambliss win against Cleland. Surely we have reliable, verifiable voting systems in place? It's been almost four years since the nationwide disaster of the 2004 election with irregularities still emerging.

Hasn't all this been fixed?

You'd think so. But, the answer is definitely no. Votes are still taken by voting machines produced by vendors highly sympathetic to the Republican Party. The machines are still off limits to those who want to examine how they operate and observe real vote counting. And good luck if your candidate loses and there's fraud or voting machine problems suspected.

You're out of luck. You can't hire outside experts to look at the mission critical software in the optical scanners (Sec. 1.5). You'll have a great deal of difficulty examining the paper records with voter marked choices. Don't count on seeing any recounts either. Almost all the states have high hurdles before you can request and get one of these simple verification tools (See Appendix 2).

Even with a relatively accommodating state like New Hampshire, only candidates can request a recount, but recounts are almost unheard of in presidential primaries. Citizens are not allowed to request and get recounts in the "granite state."

We may have 'paper records' with the paper forms counted by New Hampshire's optical scan voting machines, all made by Diebold. We surely don't have access to those forms unless there's a recount. The presence of 'paper records' with optical scans means nothing if citizens can't examine them directly; if citizens can't request and get a recount quickly. It's all in the hands of the candidates and parties despite the fact that the election belongs to the citizens.

Here's voting rights activist Nancy Tobi with an incredibly succinct analysis of New Hampshire's primaries and the 81% of votes counted by Diebold optical scanners.

183

Plus Bill Clinton can get angry, get red in the face, point his finger, shout, call another candiates campaign a fairy tale, and it is ok.

Howard was dubbed the angry candidate when he simply showed emotion.

193.

seashell -

Thanks for the condolences.

Indy wrote regarding Obama: "Appealing to broad themes that nearly everyone can agree with is not leadership. It is deceptive and sets us up. Tell us what he will do."

Why not just go to his website instead of relying on pep talks at political rallies?

It is Demos' turn..., lol, they are next in line.

Somebody has to keep the presidency warm for Jebthro. 

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

Not when paired with detailed policies and programs for poverty, energy transformation, global warming, economic development, health care, trade and other specifics presented by Edwards.

He mentions them at every opportunity along with the approach that we need to fight for them, not make deals and compromises before we even begin.

----- Original Message -----
From: Hillary Clinton
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: From the bottom of my heart

You and I surprised a lot of people tonight!

In the days after Iowa, I turned to you and asked you to stand with me. When I needed you most, you came through with flying colors.

From the bottom of my heart, I thank you.

All the best,

Hillary

----- Original Message -----
From: Hillary Clinton
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:36 AM
Subject: What happened last night

Only six days into the voting in this presidential race, and we've already been through so much together. In the days ahead, you and I have to keep speaking from the heart. We have to keep listening and learning, always understanding that this campaign is about high aspirations for America and hard work.

Because of your passion and commitment, our campaign begins today with new energy and new momentum. We won last night because we showed the leadership people are looking for in the face of difficult challenges and because we connected with people who share our vision for a new, more promising future.

But just as surely, we won because we made more phone calls, knocked on more doors, and put more get-out-the-vote vans on the road. And now we face our next big challenge: doing all of that not in one state, but in more than two dozen states that will vote between now and February 5. Let's go for it.

Contribute now to keep our momentum going.

We Democrats are in a hard-fought, spirited campaign that will continue to widen across the nation in the weeks ahead. All of our hopes, dreams, and aspirations for America are wrapped up in this election. And because I've been able to count on you, we're entering this next phase of the campaign with the wind at our back.

In New Hampshire, we stood together and showed them what we're made of. We'll have to do it again and again in the days and weeks ahead. Will you help me carry our winning message of change, opportunity, and achievement to every corner of this country?

Keep our campaign moving forward. Contribute now.

This is a huge moment in our effort to lead America toward a more promising future.

But we've got a lot of work to do. So let's roll up our sleeves and get to it. Thanks so much for all you do.

Sincerely,

Hillary

194

This is disheartening.

For the umpteenth time...Muskie wasn't crying in Manchester.

Scroll back thru the threads. It killed his candidacy, bigtime.

William Loeb spun it all over the nation that he was (as good as a wimp/faggot meme). He'd smeared Jane Muskie as a drunkard.

Women are socialized that if they speak out, it's not "ladylike" (she must be a "bitch"--see Natalie Maines/Dixie Chicks fmi on exercising "voice").

Translation: STFU

...no woman "finds her voice" that fast, folks.



Hillary's "they're ganging up on me" was contrived (as IndySteve noted)--suddenly, she lunged back into Obama within seconds.

That's certainly anything but authentic.

The flip side (already all over the news): "how can Clinton be "strong on defense, if she cracks that easily?" meme.

The RNC is lovin' it.

Her negatives are the highest (in her own party, no less) of any Pres. candidate.


She's manipulative as hell.

...as is Big Dog, w/his "protect my wife" ranting bullshit (Mr. womanizer & sexual harasser for decades has room to talk).

It worked this time; however, it's already backfiring.

Professing that NOW & NARAL didn't support Obama's voting record on reproductive issues was also spun like hell yesterday--but those women were probably at work; & doubtfully blog/didn't see the clarifications.

199.

You criticize others for not citing detailed policies, but provide only rhetoric yourself. 

Tom Bearse
Wed, 01/09/08

I have and it is not detailed nor is it something that makes me that hopeful. He supported coal-based and nuclear energy, his health care proposal is compromised from the beginning without universal care, he barely mentions poverty. Again, full of platitudes and vague goals with an assurance that we can be audacious to hope (hmmmm....) and somehow deal with the other side to get meaningful progressive reform.

We all know the other side will obstruct, obsruct, obstruct. Obama doesn't want to acknowledge that because he's trying to woo indies. Edwards knows what it will take and is willing honestly to say it. People would rather hear hope and unity speeches than it's gonna be a fight type of speeches.

People keep saying Hillary can’t beat a Republican candidate.  (Mostly the Corporate Republican owned media and their polls keep trying to tell us this.)  She did in New Hampshire.

AP is up to 98%:

So while while Clinton was "misty", here is what Obama was doing -

Obama tries to mediate an end to violence in Kenya from campaign trail

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/01/08/america/Obama-Kenya.php

Yeah HRC he is going to take our country backwards, he is a fairy tale.

205

Nice try, this was a little state election, not national.  In a national election she will get her ass kicked.

Inquiring minds want to know --

Will this be the election determined by who has the better riffs on his guitar or who's spouse can belt out some saxophone tunes ?

If so, maybe I should rent out the movie Deliverence and watch it over and over again (until I don't know what we all were trying to be delivered from).

Dueling banjos on Nov 5, 2008 ?

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

More lies...i've provided many details, but go to Edwards site and read for yourself. For a campaign website, there is much depth to his ideas and proposals. Then come back and I'll discuss the details with you.

http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/

roflmao..., even Karl Rove predicts "changes" democrats will bring along....or he calls it "break barriers"!

--------------

http://www.examiner.com/blogs/Yeas_and_N...

Rove: America would love to elect a woman or African-American
January 9, 2:14 PM

In what could be read as an admission that the Democrats have a major advantage going into this year’s elections, former Bush aide Karl Rove said today that "Americans are looking for a way to break barriers. They would love to elect a woman president; they would love to elect an African-American president....

EVEN the Bush’s can have a momentary lapse into ‘humanity’. : ) 

Just what I'd expect a Mukasey backer to say. 

But no, psychopathic personalties don't have lapses into sanity.

And neither do Democrats who support Republicans. 

Todays NYTimes editorial smacks down Hillary Clinton.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/opinio...

It's very early but I don't think she would likely be endorsed by them - JMO

Rove: America would love to elect a woman or African-American

Quoting Rove? I'm always amazed at how low some will sink to promote their fave (even through default with damning praise). 

YES, WE CAN.....that is the new Obama theme of hope and unity.

It just doesn't do it for me. What is it that we can do?

Here's a snippet from the NYTimes:

----In Mrs. Clinton’s zeal to make the case that experience (hers) is more important than inspirational leadership (Mr. Obama’s), she made some peculiar comments about the relative importance of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and President Lyndon Johnson to the civil rights cause. She complimented Dr. King’s soaring rhetoric, but said: “Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. ... It took a president to get it done. ”

Why Mrs. Clinton would compare herself to Mr. Johnson, who escalated the war in Vietnam into a generational disaster, was baffling enough. It was hard to escape the distasteful implication that a black man needed the help of a white man to effect change. She pulled herself back from the brink by later talking about the mistreatment and danger Dr. King faced. Former President Bill Clinton, who seems to forget he is not the one running, hurled himself over the edge on Monday with a bizarre and rambling attack on Mr. Obama.-------

McCain is running as a populist in Michigan lol "I will not leave workers behind in my America."

the one thing we can agree on so far is that there are a lot of votes in that vein of ore

197.

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

Somebody has to keep the presidency warm for Jebthro.
--------

...lol, of course, the desire is transparent.
However it'll be stopped...., don't think Jeb will get any chances.

Economy can't sustain such a torture on itself (even if American people still can).

YES, WE CAN.....

doesn'

t do it for me either. but then, neither does "son of a mill worker."

(And I am the son of a mill worker rather than a mill manager.) 

BTW, Just heard Hillary stealing Edwards' "unheard voices" meme with "invisible people." Honor among thieves?

"I will not leave workers behind in my America."

No worker left behind, eh?

They can get jobs making munitions for his upcoming wars I guess. 

She complimented Dr. King’s soaring rhetoric, but said: “Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. ... It took a president to get it done. ”

Sounds like a good Obama ad for SC. It also sounds like some criticism we've seen here today.

fmi William Loeb & Ed Muskie (his wife, Jane is my kinda woman, BTW)! Loeb also attempted to paint Muskie as racist ("Canuck" smear--not the thing to do w/someone from a working class milltown, in Rumford, ME). Manchester was still a manufacturing/milltown in '72 (w/lots of Franco-Americans). Loeb was a rabid Rethug NH publisher.

http://tinyurl.com/2ucdjn

I was born in 1955; and I tell 'ya, Maine was hardly even purple back then (stronghold Rethug)--fugget about blue (still is a medium shade of purple).

We have the Clean Water Act, thanks to Ed.

Just a drop in.  Indy Steve, you'll make the right decision for you.  I think all this back and forth, analysis and counter analysis is exactly what should be happening. A President is more than symbol, more than leader, she/he has to be cool under pressure, has to take a much bigger perspective than anything as polarizing and partisan as we've seen in these last years. 

I didn't like the fact that Obama had promised to serve out his senate term and not run and then change his mind.  I didn't like the snippy quality I thought I perceived in Edwards.  I see him as a lone warrior in many respects, but he's also very appealing, very bright, and very passionate about the "Two Americas".

It took me until this week to really look at Barack Obama, and the more I looked, the more I saw someone who could see more than one perspective, who was a realist an didn't promise specific plans that he wouldn't be able to deliver.  I saw a person who I think genuinely believes in this country, who will negotiate anywhere and everywhere because he believes in reason, the power of people to figure things out and do the right thing.

 This morning as he was interviewed on NPR, he said the American people and their representatives have to become informed and pressure Congress to provide universal health care and clean up these messes (my words).  He talked about repairing the damage to this country.  That makes sense to me.   Like Howard Dean, he's saying the people have to participate and help it be accomplished.  I think we need that kind of warrior, not one who has the plan already in p ace and will accomplish it all by herself/himself.

But, and I don't think I'd probably agree with anyone absolutely on this blog, I think Sitka is right. Let the process take place.  If Edwards, Clinton, or Obama is to lead this country, they have to convince the American people they are capable and earn their trust and confidence.  There are too many terribly difficult and complicated and dangerous decisions to be made as President  if you aren't tough enough, strong enough, and persuasive enough to lead.

So, onward with the dialogue.  Just hopefully, there won't be too much cheating, too much skull duggery, too many lies, and too much hysteria. 

scullduggery.

Just hopefully, there won't be too much cheating, too much skull duggery, too many lies, and too much hysteria. 

+++

and too much laughing and crying

ciao, I'm off for the ride home

(fyi - if you like libraries:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyDY0hiMZy8 )

Super delegates won in most cases hundreds of thousands of votes in elections by putting themselves forward as a name on a ballot as representing our Party.

and we are in the middle of selecting a nominee to represent the Democratic Party

we can argue the relative merits of a multi-party system like Italy or Israel but for the last 150 years or so have settled on two, and the last major re-alignment came when racists left the Democratic party after the passage of the Civil Rights Act

We are very close to the next step which is to continue on to a democratic (small d) party that is the counter-balance to aggregations of power that deny the rights and opportunities of ordinary working people

and party rules do give voters a equal chance to allocate convention delegates to others in other states, and voters also had a say in electing office holders who are super delegates

this particular nomination is firmly in the grips of the grassroots if they don't drop the ball

if you don't want to be part of the Party selection fine, wait til fall and make your choice

this process is the picking of the Democratic side of the ballot.

Let the process take place.  If Edwards, Clinton, or Obama is to lead this country, they have to convince the American people they are capable and earn their trust and confidence.

I think, contrary to convetional "wisdom," that a longer process with more competition helps the Democrats as a whole and produces the strongest nominee.

And the longer it takes for one to secure the nomination, the less time the Reeps will have to focus fire on that person. 

But unlike some (or perhaps just one) I get no kick out of the idea of a brokered convention decided by deal making insiders. 

Both Obama and Clinton will make an appeal to Edwards (and others) supporters because they think we are up for grabs. So hearing them using Edwards' lines and themes isn't surprising. They are trying to appeal to us. Kerry did this about this time in 2004. It is common and unappealing to me.

However, we have to believe it is authentic and that they are not simply pandering. That will be difficult to do, and I would say they shouldn't even try.

Super delegates won in most cases hundreds of thousands of votes in elections by putting themselves forward as a name on a ballot as representing our Party.

That gives them no inherent right to a greater say in the process. 

and we are in the middle of selecting a nominee to represent the Democratic Party

And no vote should be greater than another -- or delegate entitled. 

I must say I find your repeated statements promoting a closed and privileged political process not only undemocratic, but harmful to the Democratic Party and its electoral prospects. 

Kerry did this about this time in 2004. It is common and unappealing to me.

LOL...Edwards did it too.

Selective amnesia. 

More on the woman who asked Hillary a question that drew an emotional response from Hillary:

The woman whose empathetic question -- "how do you do it?" -- sparked uncharacteristic emotion Monday from Sen. Hillary Clinton ended up voting for Sen. Barack Obama in the New Hampshire primary.
Marianne Pernold Young, 64, a freelance photographer from Portsmouth, N.H., told ABC News that while she was moved by Clinton's emotional moment, she was turned off by how quickly the New York senator regained her "political posture."
"I went to see Hillary. I was undecided and I was moved by her response to me," Pernold Young said in a telephone interview with ABC News. "We saw ten seconds of Hillary, the caring woman."
"But then when she turned away from me, I noticed that she stiffened up and took on that political posture again," she said. "And the woman that I noticed for ten seconds was gone."

However, we have to believe it is authentic and that they are not simply pandering. That will be difficult to do, and I would say they shouldn't even try.

After two solid losses, I'm guessing that many Edwardiacs are already considering which one sounds more like him so they can make the jump. 

I still don't understand the slam intended toward John Edwards by making his father's rise from the mill floor to a supervisory position somehow makes him part of the ruling elite. It helped put his son through the University I'm sure. We are the better for that effort by adding that perspective to the debate. Hillary Clinton will never give us that perspective.She can however give us the perspective of a gender class that earns 74 cents on the dollar. I took that moment in New Hampshire as being a flicker of self-enlightment of her being a person in her own right, (a woman) running for goals she believes in, that make her part of a movement, a arc of history, and Obama is that as well.

That is what makes this a competitive race. Three candidates part of something bigger than themselves.

The first one that thinks this is about them rather than that arc will be the next one out, and that is the weeding out process that is going on.

Those that didn't make it about something larger are no longer in the race. 

DNC's '08 Delegate selection plan is finito.

http://www.democrats.org/a/convention_20...

Like it, or not, Sitka.

Change things thru your AZ party's hierarchy--then @state & national levels. Rotza ruck.

You need a reality check, re: how difficult it is to work from the entrenched inside (vs. spewing wishful thinking malarky incessantly on a blog).

http://www.democrats.org/a/convention_20...

228.

So hearing them using Edwards' lines and themes isn't surprising.

It is Edwards who has been (like Clinton) plagerizing some of Obama's main themes. Obama's book, The Audacity of Hope, mentions Change. It becamse it main them in the very beginning and has remained so.

Yet, Edwards campaign bus has been sporting Change for about a month now, in huge letters.

What lines and themes of Edwards has Obama been using that weren't his to begin with??

Talk of the Nation has George McGovern advocating Impeachment

222.

I didn't like the fact that Obama had promised to serve out his senate term and not run and then change his mind.

Pat,

Where does that come from. I have since it posted here several times but I don't remember him saying that. Sources??

Joan,

Nobody has a copyright on change! Nor on hope. LOL. It is a nothing word. What does it mean? What kind of change? How are you going to bring it about? And change to what? Edwards has articulated detailed answers to all of those.

Mainefem wrote: You need a reality check, re: how difficult it is to work from the entrenched inside (vs. spewing wishful thinking malarky incessantly on a blog).

Say that a thousand times. Rinse. Repeat.

I still don't understand the slam intended toward John Edwards by making his father's rise from the mill floor to a supervisory position somehow makes him part of the ruling elite.

That's not it at all. He tells people only that his dad was a mill worker but leaves out the latter part because it doesn't benefit the "common man" myth he's tried to create about himself. He tries to use something that is irrelevant as a way of selling himself and most people see right through it. 

Say that a thousand times. Rinse. Repeat.

Yes. Blog it a thousand more times. 

Joan

all of Obama's yard signs say  HOPE

Change as a one word slogan started with Edwards (not that it matters)

Politicians adopt language that mirrors positive responses to when they use it.

and if you don't want CHANGE from bushco you are braindead

it has been overdone and will be dropped shortly I suspect

BTW, I am not opposed to supporting Obama at some point. I want him to specify more what he will do, and to take some bold stands. His health care plan is the weakest of the three.

Be audacious. Not to hope for change, but to bring meaningful PROGRESSIVE change about. It's going to be more of a fight than Obama is admitting now with his unity BS.

"Daniel Becnel, Jr., a lawyer who said his clients have filed more than 60,000 claims, said measuring Katrina's devastation in dollars and cents is a nearly impossible task."

"There's no way on earth you can figure it out," he said. "The trauma these people have undergone is unlike anything that has occurred in the history of our country."

______________

Unless you happen to be an American Indian.  Government as an insurance policy..."look at what they make you give"

John Edwards really is the "son of a mill worker" . "grandson of a mill worker" too

deal with it

I invite your comments

http://blogforamerica.com/view/23495 

 233.

The first one that thinks this is about them rather than that arc will be the next one out, and that is the weeding out process that is going on.

Those that didn't make it about something larger are no longer in the race. 

And that is why Obama is ahead in delegates right now.

Hopefully voters will soon see that Hillary is quite small.

Change as a one word slogan started with Edwards (not that it matters)

Actually, it's the oldest theme in American politics. 

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

Wrong again...More anti-Edwards spin?

Edwards' father started out as a mill worker and worked his way up to middle management. The family had very modest means. Edwards came from those roots; it isn't spin.

The fact he became a trial lawyer and took on many small guy cases against corp. isn't a bad resume for what we need to do now, either.

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

I agree. Change is meaningless by itself. As is hope. But it allows everyone to fill in the blanks with their own views. That is Obama's strategy at this point. To be vague enough so others fill in the void with their own ideas and thoughts. That is an age-old way to win elections too.

I may be the dude who cried wolf here, but it just seems to me that the moment the Bush Administration leaves the confines of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, his entire crime syndicate will be open to numerous indictments on serious crimes.

If these folks have an exit strategy that gets them off the hook short, of martial law, I don't see it.

deal with it

Really convincing response.

I'm the son of a mill worker too. And the grandson of a sharecropper.

So what? 

HOPE says "things can get better"; I don't have a problem with a positive attitude as long as it isn't too passive and that is all it is

the moment the Bush Administration leaves the confines of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, his entire crime syndicate will be open to numerous indictments on serious crimes.

By DCDems who have been complicit in or turned a blind eye the worst offenses? Not likely. 

 "still don't understand the slam intended toward John Edwards by making his father's rise from the mill floor to a supervisory position somehow makes him part of the ruling elite"

And why is being from the ruling elite bad in the leader of the country.  That is what we have always had.  Janitors rarely make it through the primary process.

Change is meaningless by itself. As is hope. But it allows everyone to fill in the blanks with their own views. That is Obama's strategy at this point.

But then, since "change" is claimed to be Edwards' theme, that makes filling in the blanks his strategy too. You have to see with two eyes, not just one.

Hi Joan,

#237, I don't know where I read it.  I heard it during the 2006 campaign when Obama was asked if he was going  fulfill his senate term and he said yes.  How to find it, Joan, I haven't a clue.  I just know that I took it as truth that he said it, and when he ran for President, I felt he had violated a promise.  

But, we're  imperfect people, and I'll bet there was huge pressure for him to run.  I talked to a neighbor two days ago who had heard Obama's speech at the Democratic National Convention and he said he's been for him ever since.

I  think it takes enormous courage to run, and I shudder at the racism and bigotry that is still endemic in this country.  Why do we call Obama an African American?  He's also a Caucasian American whose mother came from, was it Kansas, whose grandparents lived in Hawaii?  This constant labeling, sterotyping of people is so destructive.

But, I like his mind, like his ethics, like his rhetoric, like his achievements (he has the most liberal voting record of anty of the Democrats except for Kucinich, I've read) and I think many Americans are heartily sick of the polarization, the righteousness of a particular position on an issue.  A President represents me but not in all my prejudices, interests, or positions on an issue.  I want a person of intelligence, character, breadth of vision, and who is a realist.

So, sorry, once again on my soapbox. 

213.

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08


Rove: America would love to elect a woman or African-American
--------
Quoting Rove? I'm always amazed at how low some will sink to promote their fave (even through default with damning praise).

********

...lol, what promote? what fave? what default?

That's funny I remember some years ago I was quoting Osama, then Rocket Oler replied with somewhat similar words "...how low...?".

I'm not amazed any longer how low some may sink to refuse in full consciousness to read/to learn from ANYONE..., including Osama, Rove, even Bush..., lol, from ANYONE!

Otherwise I may only sympathies to such a "Democracy"..., lol!

And why is being from the ruling elite bad in the leader of the country.

That's another debate. This one is about Edwards using his father as a campaign gimmick. 

I'm not putting you down, sitka; that would be you putting Edwards down for his background.

his life experience as a child growing up in a "mill village" has informed his sense of justice to the point he is willing to fight    to achieve his political goals because he has seen the larger forces that grind down politically powerless people unless they do, like close the mill and ship the jobs overseas

that does make him one of them; their "son" both literaly and figuretively

How's this for a role reversal... I thought Hillary's emotional episode was phony, hubby didn't.

Gary Hart is right.

We need to take a chance on a new generation of leaders. 

Look what happened when the repugnicons reserrected the corpses of Cheney, Rumsfeld and propped them up in office based on their "experience."

Obama/Gore

Obama/Hart

Obama/Edwards

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-hart/the-democatic-crossroads_b_80723.html

...lol, what promote? what fave? what default?

Based on your appearances here only to promote Ron Paul, it was natural to think you were using Rove's words to damn Hillary and Obama in the eyes of others.

That's what happens when take to selling political real estate -- people suspect your motives in everything. 

Obama/Gore

Gore has said he will never serve again in any capacity but president. 

I want a person of intelligence, character, breadth of vision, and who is a realist.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pat I do too, but I don't see polarization I see Republican obstructionists and a largely united America.

and if they don't have a clear choice they will not be pursuaded

Progressive Avenger 

I predict that both Obama and Clinton will choose Wes Clark for VP.

Hi Phil, I can just hear Puddle saying "True dat."  I agree. But, where power, money, status is involved, there are no depths to which people won't sink, not everyone, but way too many. 

I sometimes wonder that humans who have had a least a million years on this earth, why we can't somehow change our viciousness, change our willingness to sacrifice each other for a position, prejudice, or advantage.  I really wish somehow we could evolve?! 

Hi Subway, long time. You may be right.

There's an SF Author who used to go around to conventions and do something he called the "secular humanist revival" in the style of an old time preacher.  The call and response for the sermon was "And when a preacher asks "do you believe" you should respond "Believe what!""

When someone calls for change, ask them "Change to what !"  Bush was certainly change, but not the kind we want.  I want to hear more than the work change, I want to know where we're changing to.

I'm not putting you down, sitka; that would be you putting Edwards down for his background.

I didn't think you were and I don't put down Edwards background. I merely point out that it is irrelevant despite his (and your) attempts to use it as some sort of telling factor about him.

There are butthead conservatives from a middle income backgrounds too. 

.. I thought Hillary's emotional episode was phony, hubby didn't

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I took it as a sign of fatigue, but if it polled well and she is instructed to do it again like the "belly laugh" it will bomb, if it frees her to become more herself all the way to policy and how the campaign is run it will be very liberating for her, for she has been in a straight jacket (locking up her feelings)for years 

264.

Sitka, I was hoping he could be a powerful VP like Cheney, only not evil.

Sitka,

I'm still holding out for Gore/Dean. It's a long way to Denver. 

Just popping in.  See y'all later.

263.

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

Reply to this


...lol, what promote? what fave? what default?

Based on your appearances here only to promote Ron Paul, it was natural to think you were using Rove's words to damn Hillary and Obama in the eyes of others.

That's what happens when take to selling political real estate -- people suspect your motives in everything.
--------

Sitka, you are not "people" yet.

My suggestion to you, do not suspect - READ FULLY, first.

As for me "selling political real estate"....of Ron Paul, my answer is, at least I'm trying to sell someone (more precisely something).

What are you SELLING HERE?

When someone calls for change, ask them "Change to what !"

Touche. 

Edwards in SC just on Blitzer's show. Good interview.

What are you SELLING HERE?

If you don't know, then obviously nothing. 

And I still suspect your motive in posting Rove was ulterior since you've provided no other explanation. 

I'm still holding out for Gore/Dean. It's a long way to Denver.

Now THAT'S a worthy hope! 

Obama/Feingold

Just thougt I'd throw that in. Would be a big loss to the Senate however to lose both of these good progressives.

YES, WE CAN.....that is the new Obama theme of hope and unity.

It just doesn't do it for me. What is it that we can do?

Anything you want!

So long, Folks.

We're going to a meeting tonight in Fort Collins to help with a candidate's campaign for the House of Representatives, Betsy Markey.  I think she's terrific, just who we need to defeat the dreadful Marilyn Musgrave. 

use it as some sort of telling factor about him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is a telling factor for him, it is his self identity at his core. Like I have said most people ground down by work don't vote, so it isn't particulary astute by consultant standards, and it may be partly because he has self doubts because he has been so wildly successful in elevating his class status above the factory floor, but some great Americans have remembered their roots enough to try and bring folks along in their success  "don't forget where they come from"

the world is full of people standing on the shoulders of the past generations it is the ones stepping on their faces we must avoid

278.

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

What are you SELLING HERE?

If you don't know, then obviously nothing.

And I still suspect your motive in posting Rove was ulterior since you've provided no other explanation.
------------

Sitka, I hope you've just tired.
My sincere words: taking break from blogging may help.

I really wish somehow we could evolve?!

Yeah. We've been on this rung of the ladder for too long. 

I think Gore would accept the nomination if it were awarded to him.

It is a telling factor for him, it is his self identity at his core.

Give it a rest after 5 years already. Nobody's ever bought it.

Pat in Colorado
Wed, 01/09/08

Good luck, Pat. Let us know more about her.

My sincere words: taking break from blogging may help.

I take breaks all the time.

My sincere words for you: When you set yourself up as a shill, you lose credibility. 

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

How one grew up and their roots is part of who they are and how they think. You can't deny that. It is part of Obama's identity too.

Bush grew up with a privileged silver spoon in his mouth (credit dear Ann Roberts with that phrase) and it shows.

I think Gore would accept the nomination if it were awarded to him.

He might have done quite well without lifting a finger if he hadn't quashed the DraftGore movement. 

Pat in Col...222
Joan in Fl...237

Obama's promise to finish out his term was made to Tim Russert. That is the way it was presented a couple of times here.

As I recall it, Tim asked him more than once, and Obama replied that how many ways did he need to say it, that he would finish his term. It could probably be researched for the exact quote.

How one grew up and their roots is part of who they are and how they think.

There are millions of conservatives with Edwards' backround. The natural assumption would be that he's like them -- but I don't believe in such nonsense.

Bush grew up with a privileged silver spoon in his mouth (credit dear Ann Roberts with that phrase) and it shows.

So did FDR and JFK. It showed?

You got it, IndySteve.

I'm still unenrolled, BTW.

My county Dem. Chair is a *former Deaniac delegate* to the '04 Beantown convention, BTW.

He's held three corrupt elections in a row (rubber stamped by his cronies), which might be why a whopping *14* folks attended last month's *county* meeting (and he can't seem to fill convenor slots). #of Dems. registered in county as of '06: 34,082.

Can't imagine *why*....

'Ya think??

No open nonimations, no advertisement of elections in advance, no notifications to all county members...let's suspend election rules to non-members & let them vote for officers...to hell w/Robert's Rules of Order, etc.

Crooked elections from Democrats? Nada. I don't tolerate it.

Insider cronyism; and then wonder why we don't win elections (never have attempted to involve younger people--or *any* people, for that matter!)--despite my incessant pleas to the contrary).

It might upset status quo. Can't have *that*.

Municipal level (I'm a former "officer," BTW): in violation (in more than a few areas) of our own freakin' bylaws. Duh.

Insider stuff via phone and email; w/an average of 4-12 people in attendance--tops (out of 2,239 Dems registered in '06). Small city of 7,000 or so (reddish-purple voter demographic).

I receive a MySpace notice today of a "meeting" next week; and of caucus crap. Hmmmm...I'm sensing that due to screwy bylaws, we aren't a legitimate committee--can't caucus.

But wtf do I know?

Screw that...if I re-enroll, I vote absentee (A.B.H.).

This is real-word stuff. The magical thinking dichotomy doesn't compute...sorry.

Sounds like something a Greenie would say.

Obama's promise to finish out his term was made to Tim Russert.

That's a canard. It was just a backdoor way of asking Obama if he would run for president and worthy of a quack journalist like Russert..

That would be Ann Richardson - not Ann Roberts.

289.

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08


My sincere words for you: When you set yourself up as a shill, you lose credibility.
----------

again, its funny....I'm not trying to gain credibility here, I don't need it.

All I'm trying to do is to explain man's stances many don't but I (and many others, btw) DO see it, as a requested by TIME. If that's what you call to become a "shill", so be it.

I always thought we are seeking truth here not credibility!

184.  Taking the country back to the way it used to be (before the civil rights and urban riots of the sixties) is actually a Republican theme.  So, when Hillary says she doesn't want to go back in the context of Obama's candidacy, she's trying to distance herself from the "radical" attitudes that have conservatives getting their panties in a knot.

I expect that the urban riots were really traumatic for people who were already convinced that they were going to be murdered in their beds or attacked any time they ventured on the streets after dark.  You know, "the darkies" were going to get them and then they almost did and catastrophe was just barely averted and then "they" turned Muslim  and resisted the draft and no matter how many you put in jail and try to keep them off welfare, they still reproduce and produce captivating speakers.  How to explain it?  How to maintain belief in one's superior status, when these people keep overcoming whatever impediments are thrown in their way?

( My reaction to the shop-keepers' stores going up in flames in Watts was that it was about time.  I even took the family to see (in 1975) the neighborhood where I'd lived and was glad and sorry to see that the stores around the corner had been burnt and not yet rebuilt.  Those merchants were nasty).

What you consider brutal attitudes in response to the destruction and dislocation of the people of New Orleans are no way extraordinary in the minds of the people who expressed them.  Since they don't like seeing lots of dark skinned people living in crowded conditions, they assume that the people don't like it either, but are just too stupid to do anything about it.  That's how prejudice works.  It lets you arrive at conclusion on the basis of prior unsubstantiated beliefs.  In a sense, you could say that a "faith-based" society is one that is built on prejudice.  No independent thought required or desired. 

Well. I'll take former's advice and head out for awhile and leave bomb throwing to the Edwardiacs.

(I just wonder why they go after Obama more than Hillary?) 

PS... I'm not trying to gain credibility here, I don't need it.

That may be one reason why Paul is getting no takers here. 

I always thought we are seeking truth here not credibility!

They are fingers on the same hand. 

Guess what? The usage of fear and mean-spirited Ads don't really work. Folks don't like to be talked down to or told what to do either. They want a fighter in for the long haul who's pain they can feel and who feels their pain. They also want someone who can free them of their misery. I wonder what happened in the tests when candidates were caught telling a lie?

----

Brain Imaging Shows the 'Unspoken Truth' About Politics

Look Inside Voters' Brains Shows What They Really Think About Candidates

Candidates invest blood, sweat and tears, not to mention millions of dollars, trying to get inside the minds of voters. But what if instead of turning to polls, they could turn to neuroscience to find out what voters are thinking?
Lucid Systems, a cutting-edge marketing research company, gave ABC News' senior political correspondent Claire Shipman a look inside voters' mind with brain imaging technology.

Lucid used a cap with electrodes to monitor people's brain activity as they looked at candidates' pictures and watched a debate on TV. In many cases, what people say and what their brain shows don't match up.
Red at the back of the brain means a voter likes what he's hearing.

One undecided New Hampshire voter insisted he likes Republican Sen. John McCain and Democrat Sen. Barack Obama equally, but as he looked at a picture of Obama, more red showed up during brain imaging, meaning he actually feels more positive about Obama.


The Unspoken Truth
And brain waves showed how a group of undecided New Hampshire voters felt as they watched the Democratic candidates' debate.

At one point, Sen. Hillary Clinton got worked up and took a dig at Obama. "I want to make change but I already made change," she said.

The brain waves, shown graph-style as red and green waves in a system developed with BIOPAC Systems, showed they liked that moment.

"As a president, you want someone who is tough," said voter Ed Colbert.

Clinton's humor worked as well. But when Obama responded to her with a somewhat snide comment, brain waves showed a huge negative response.

"It just shows Barack doesn't like her very much," said voter Jean Taylor.

In another surprising result, the voters praised John Edwards when he said, "We need a president who believes deeply in here," and touched his heart.

"You could see he felt really really strongly," Effie Sorrentino said.

But in fact, the imaging showed they weren't emotionally moved. Once they were told the results, the voters dug deeper about how they really felt. ... video and full printed story: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story...

mainefem, I'd appreciate your comment

http://blogforamerica.com/view/23495 

299.  There is truth, but you can't prove it.  Better spend time just avoiding the false, which you can determine.

I would like to see the candidates and their political operatives hook-up to that devise for some truth testing just to find out what jazzes them.

160

I will vote for someone who has guts, determination, intelligence, follow thru., integrity, & the ability to say what they mean & mean what they say. Any of those around?  My options are open. 

``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Well you won't be voting for Clinton will you?

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That will certainly be my decision to make based on my own determination. Not based on yours or someone else's.  People have many different views on the same subject. In otherwords, people see things differently. They can vote accordingly. That's their right.

300.  More voter manipulation hardly seems desirable.  Do you think maybe they could teach politicians to stop lying?

Awwwww, Subway, what a lovely idear.... Gore/Dean.
I understand why AG's not in (yet) and I was disappointed but understanding when the NH write-in campaign folded, but it's still such a sweet dream!
Didn't he say once that he'd get in "if there was no clear front-runner"? Well, there's no clear front-runner....

And yes, it's time to go to the meeting to endorse a Congressional candidate. And work on a State Senate campaign. And get ready for the state primary. There's work to be done!
Jane

IF ALL ELSE FAILS, THERE'S DIEBOLD

(Abstract of Princeton study)

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/linkframe.php?linkid=49174

This paper presents a fully independent security study of a Diebold AccuVote-TS voting machine, including its hardware and software. We obtained the machine from a private party. Analysis of the machine, in light of real election procedures, shows that it is vulnerable to extremely serious attacks. For example, an attacker who gets physical access to a machine or its removable memory card for as little as one minute could install malicious code; malicious code on a machine could steal votes undetectably, modifying all records, logs, and counters to be consistent with the fraudulent vote count it creates. An attacker could also create malicious code that spreads automatically and silently from machine to machine during normal election activities — a voting-machine virus. We have constructed working demonstrations of these attacks in our lab. Mitigating these threats will require changes to the voting machine's hardware and software and the adoption of more rigorous election procedures.

Fat chance!

jao:

*Never* have I voted for Collins or Snowe--simply because they're women/have a vagina (both have been in D.C. for a loooooooooooooooong time, unfortunately).

They're complicit (hell, both support warmongerer, McCain--along w/the misogynistic shrub regime for years on end).

Both profess to be pro-woman.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wouldn't vote for anyone just  because they were tall, short, fat,young or old. Nor would I vote because they were male, female or in between. What I don't like to see is someone being innialated(sp) in the press simply because they've decided they shouldn't win. That's what happened to Dean. That's what was done in NH to Hillary, IMO.

Dammit

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/0...

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Six U.S. soldiers were killed Wednesday in Iraq when a bomb exploded in a house while they were on patrol in Diyana, north of Baghdad, the military announced.


U.S. soldiers conduct a house-to-house assessment mission in Baghdad Wednesday.

Four soldiers were also wounded in the attack and evacuated to a coalition forces hospital, Multi-National Corps-Iraq said.

The soldiers were with Multi-National Division-North.

It was the first incident involving multiple deaths of U.S. soldiers in Iraq since September 10, when seven Multi-National Division-Baghdad soldiers died and 11 were injured in a vehicle accident in western Baghdad.

Ron Paul Votes Not Counted In New Hampshire District
Vote fraud confirmed, Clinton reversed mammoth pre-polling deficit to beat Obama, Diebold machines aid Giuliani, Romney Prison Planet | January 9, 2008
Paul Joseph Watson

Major allegations of vote fraud in New Hampshire are circulating after Hillary Clinton reversed a mammoth pre-polling deficit to defeat Barack Obama with the aid of Diebold electronic voting machines, while confirmed votes for Ron Paul in the Sutton district were not even counted.

According to a voter in Sutton, New Hampshire , three of her family members voted for Ron Paul, yet when she checked the voting map on the Politico website, the total votes for Ron Paul were zero.

With 100% of precincts now reporting, the map still says zero votes for Ron Paul as you can see below.

It's not as if Sutton had a handful of voters like some other districts - a total of 386 people voted yet we are led to believe that not one voted for Ron Paul? Judging by the Iowa results, around 10% of residents would be expected to vote for the Congressman, returning a total of around 38 votes in this district. Let's be ultra-conservative and say just 5% support Paul - he'd still get 19 votes - but he got absolutely none whatsoever. Is there something wrong with this picture?

(Article Continues Below)

Greenville also tallied 144 votes yet not one for Congressman Paul.

Anyone else in Sutton who voted for Ron Paul needs to go public immediately with the charge of vote fraud and make it known that they were cheated out of their right to vote.

Diebold voting machines also did Congressman Paul no favors last night - compared to hand counted ballots Giuliani gained just short of 0.5% from electronic voting whereas Paul lost over 2%, which was the difference between finishing 4th and 5th, as this graph documents .

Mitt Romney profited the most from the Diebold swing, he received 7% more votes compared to hand counted ballots.

In the Democratic race the Diebold voting machines clearly swung the primary in Hillary Clinton's favor at the expense of Barack Obama, who had a commanding lead over the New York Senator going into the contest.

Zogby polling numbers had Obama leading Clinton by a whopping 42/29 per cent, yet Clinton eventually took the primary by three per cent.

"If I was Barack Obama, I'd certainly not have conceded this election this quickly," writes The Brad Blog . "I'm not quite sure what he was thinking. And as far as offering an indication of whether he understands how these systems work, and the necessity of making sure that votes are counted, and counted accurately, it does not offer a great deal of confidence at this hour."

"While I have no evidence at this time --- let me repeat, no evidence at this time --- of chicanery, what we do know is that chicanery, with this particular voting system, is not particularly difficult. Particularly when one private company --- and a less-than-respectable one at that, as I detailed in the previous post --- runs the entire process."

Clinton would not have beat Obama without the aid of Diebold voting machines. In precincts where electronic voting machines were used, Clinton got a 7% swing over Obama , having gained 5% in comparison to hand-counted ballots and Obama losing 2%.

As we reported yesterday , the contract for programming all of New Hampshire's Diebold voting machines, which combined counted 81 per cent of the vote yesterday, is owned by LHS Associates, whose owner John Silvestro has gone to great lengths to deflect accusations that the machines can easily be rigged.

After purchasing a Diebold 1.94w machine, the same system used in New Hampshire, a computer repair shop employee picked at random by Black Box Voting was able to zero in on the system's vulnerable memory card within just ten minutes. Hacking expert Harri Hursti testified in front of the New Hampshire legislature that the machines were wide open to fraud.

TTC Maps Detail Infrastructure Dismissed as "Conspiracy Theory"

Aaron Dykes / JonesReport.com | January 9, 2008

WACO, TEXAS - In the larger story of land seizure and subjugation to an unpopular super-highway toll road system, a particularly stinging case of displacement has surfaced in central Texas.

A newly uncovered conceptual map reveals plans to pave a stretch of TTC-35 outside Waco over the rebuilt church of the Branch Davidians who were raided by ATF and FBI agents in 1993, killing many church members.

The TTC plan would add insult to injury for the infamous Davidian group that has already been more than wronged by governing forces. Traffic lanes would, according to the map, over-run almost half of the entire Branch Davidian property.

But the map conceptualizing future developments in Waco also reveals details about several coal plants the TxU energy giant was planning to build only a short distance south of the Davidian 'compound' as well as a new railway system to serve the infrastructure.

On the left, the proposed TTC-35 route, coursing over the Branch Davidian property off of Double EE Ranch road. In the center, proposed locations for coal plants and a serving railway.

Those coal plants have been put on hold, amidst contention over concerns about the impact such plants would have on environmental designations for the Waco area. Rep. Chet Edwards, of Waco, and other officials fear that the coal could hurt the area by giving it a federal nonattainment status.

However, Edwards is ready to support the plants if they prove to have minimal impact on environmental ratings.

Phone calls to check on the status of the maps were deflected from the McLennan County (Waco) office to TxDot. Ken Roberts, of the TxDot Waco district office, commented that it was "unusual" for the TTC and TxU projects to be mapped out together as, he stated, TxDot has no involvement whatsoever with the TxU proposals, though it does with the TTC.

The McLennan County map office, whose name is on the map, admits they drew up the map, but said it was based on plans submitted to County Commissioner Lester Gibson's office by Donald Montgomery of TxU.

Montgomery confirmed that the plans had been hatched at TxU, but quickly referenced that the projects were put on hold (though they are likely to be revived). Montgomery dismissed the notion that any relationship existed between the proposed highway infrastructure and the proposed energy & rail infrastructure, calling it another "conspiracy theory." He further dismissed the concerns expressed by Roberts of TxDot.

Though both Montgomery and the McClennan County office agreed that Montgomery himself had submitted the proposal for a map that outlines 1) a 'TTC-35 Route' used for cost estimating purposes and 2) 'TxU Proposed Rail Routes,' it is clear that Montgomery at least considered the TTC relevant to his TxU proposal-- otherwise, it wouldn't be prominently featured and mapped out.

It is true that the two projects are not directly related nor are they mutually dependent on the other's viability. However, it is clear that both the TTC and TxU projects are under the management and interests of global firms looking to control assets in Texas.

It is worth noting that TxU was bought out over the past year for a record $32 billion by Kohlberg, Kravis and Roberts (KKR) and two other globalist firms who are all represented annually at Bilderberg Meetings.

The TTC was conceived in a brokered-deal with a number of multi-national firms including the Spanish-owned Cintra and the Australia-based Macquerie.

Both the TTC and TxU project proposals were widely unpopular yet enjoyed unlimited political support from Gov. Rick Perry, who stood defiant against a 2-year moratorium passed by the legislature in the case of the TTC and who passed an executive order to fast track permits in the case of TxU.

Additionally, both the TTC and TxU were represented by the Bracewell & Giuliani law firm, based in Houston.

For the TTC, Bracewell & Giuliani facilitated Cintra in its ambition to build the first ever private toll road in Texas. Bracewell & Giuliani are credited dubiously as the 'guiding' law firm on the privatization of Texas State Highway 121. Cintra is further partnered with the Australian company Macquarie, who "previously acquired the business and assets of an investment bank known as Giuliani Capital Advisors," according to Cliff Kincaid.

For TxU, Bracewell & Giuliani handled environmental and state regulatory issues. Later, when the TxU leveraged-buyout resulted in insider-trading charges against high-level Pakistani bankers who worked for Goldman Sachs and Credit Suisse First Boston, both involved in the deal, Bracewell & Giuliani represented the cases. In fact, Marc Mukasey, the son of the current U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey, personally represented Hafiz Naseem, then a Credit Suisse investor now charged with multiple counts of white-collar crime.

In the on-going battles for both of the highly-contentious infrastructure proposals, it is interesting to note what an unwavering ally Rick Perry has been.

Yet, Perry met with the Bilderberg group in 2007, a secretive meeting among the elite echelon of the global financial architecture. Amongst the select attendees were King Juan Carlos of Spain, who is the primary shareholder for Cintra, as well as Henry Kravis, the principal for KKR-- who led the TxU buyout. Also at the exclusive meeting were heads from Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse First Boston and other top investment firms.

I never have trusted pre-election polling...it's just spin like the pundits who get their mugs on tv use to brainwash. Exit polls are not the same...exit polls are accurate! Notice the discussion of how the polls got it wrong on the shows today...only mention of exit polls is more women voted for Hillary. I guess a piece of the exit poll can be accurate to fit the storyline but the entire exit poll can not...how does that field grass taste...baaaahh?

"308. jao Wight"

I respectfully disagree. Women are grossly under-represented in positions of political and economic power across the country (municipal, county, state, and federal--in all aspects of unpaid and paid labor).

I'd love to see the first woman President before I croak (which is what Clinton is stressing).

She set back feminism into the dark ages, IMO (a Second Waver Wellesley grad. should know better).

Nobody trends from choking/'tearing up' to slamming their opponent in less than a minute (sans coming off looking disingenous as hell).

Furthermore, having Big Dog (master of sexual harassment for decades; and a womanizer, to boot--in addition to his subjugation of low income women, re: welfare deform) come to her defense by "protecting" her ('fairy tale' meme; and she's being ganged up upon) is Pukesville.

The video is widely available online--go view it; and count the seconds between the tearing up; and the abrupt behavioral shift.

I'm w/Maureen Dowd (vs. Steinem) on this one--her OpEd today is spot-on.

The Rethugs are licking their chops...women are always accused of being "too emotional;" and as Commander in Chief, she damned well needs to be able to repress it for later (in private).

Spot-on w/the DLC coded racism LBJ smear, Monica.

RU*sure* you want me to comment on your new thread?

Ms. Pennypincher accountability fanatic at your service....

Might be my frugal New England background (former Girl Scout leader, also--"Use resources wisely"); and may partially derive from being a single parent (divorced when daughter was age two).

I can stretch a buck every which-way but loose!

Yikes.

"Progressive" (pun intended) non-profits here are notorious money-wasters, too. Paper and nonstop meeting-driven folks.

Guess what?

That $23K we raised last Labor Day (volunteer concert--took hundreds of nonpaid volunteer hrs. & three months to pull off) needs to be spent *wisely* (and include short and long-term performance-based outcome measures).

Suffice to say, I quit the committee once I saw the first week's financials (how large chunks of $$ had been spent--sans prior committee approval).

Shocking. I most certainly utilized "voice!"

Haven't been back since (I disrupt "status quo" all the time)....

Don't need any of that (waste of my time--hate meetings), for those who have internet access...save some trees (as well as landfills, etc.).

I don't really want to know how much junk mail you've acquired, Monica. Scary.

My trash went out early this morning; and I cleaned out a full load in my shredder.

Irritates me to no end.

bbl~need suppah.

recommend

The Democratic "Weaselship" Council is NOT the Democratic Party by Martha Miller: http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/19524...

wll (will lurk later)

301.

Monica Smith


I left a comment.

Folks--pls. stop posting articles in their entirety.

Doesn't constitute "fair use," whatsoever.

Just the title, a couple of brief sentences, and embed a link (tinyurl.com will shorten things up significantly).

Thanks.

Denise - the death toll went up.

Bush's new SURGE -  Another surge of 'death'....  He stopped his last failing surge by pulling our guys out of the 'streets of Baghdad' when too many were dying and the American people had had it.  

317 - can't say that enough mainefem but folks will just ignore it and post the whole article anyway.

Etiquette just might be a thing of the past.

Sam - I didn't want our troops forgotten in all of this election discussion. Surge my azz.

We need to purge and it can't come too soon.

246.

Sitka
Wed, 01/09/08

I agree. Change is meaningless by itself. As is hope. But it allows everyone to fill in the blanks with their own views. That is Obama's strategy at this point. To be vague enough so others fill in the void with their own ideas and thoughts. That is an age-old way to win elections too.

+++

Indy Steve -

Just spill it out -- you're not FOR Obama in any shape or form.

Fine, then move on to championing who you're FOR - Edwards.

lost in all the election news today ?

6 U.S. soldiers died today in a booby-trapped room in Iraq

Joan

all of Obama's yard signs say  HOPE

+++

Phil -

IMO, there's so little hope in America, just the usage of the word at least offers me and some other Americans encouragement. What's wrong with that ?

I don't think your prediction of it being shortly dropped will not come to fruition, IMO.

We needs a new thread.

I recommended Monica's post regarding the DFA solicitation letter. Won't you consider doing the same? It's a fantastic letter that she wrote!

Please recommend this post.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/23495...

Here is the Michigan Primary ballot..
http://www.a2gov.org/government/city_adm...

Edwards, Obama, Richardson and Biden are not in it.
I will either vote for Dennis, vote uncommitted and the delegate chooses or stay home.

Dennis will get at least one vote.

I found this on the Obama blog:

In the words of the late Molly Ivins:

"I'd like to make it clear to the people who run the Democratic Party that I will not support Hillary Clinton for president.

Enough. Enough triangulation, calculation and equivocation. Enough clever straddling, enough not offending anyone. This is not a Dick Morris election. Sen. Clinton is apparently incapable of taking a clear stand on the war in Iraq, and that alone is enough to disqualify her. Her failure to speak out on Terri Schiavo, not to mention that gross pandering on flag-burning, are just contemptible little dodges.

The recent death of Gene McCarthy reminded me of a lesson I spent a long, long time unlearning, so now I have to re-learn it. It's about political courage and heroes when a country is desperate for leadership. There are times when regular politics will not do, and this is one of those times. There are times a country is so tired of bull that only the truth can provide relief. "
[January 2006]

rdorgan

Change was the word that was overused. Hope will stay.

typo - I don't think your prediction of it being shortly dropped will not come to fruition, IMO. 

s/b - I think your prediction of it being shortly dropped will not come to fruition, IMO.

329.

Phil -

Oh, ok (thanks for the clarification). 

BTW - Did you catch the comment # 2 upthread about Stephen Rapp back at work at the Hague ?

----- Original Message -----
From: UNITE HERE
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:23 PM
Subject: UNITE HERE Endorses Senator Barack Obama@ UNITE HERE, 1.9.08

UNITE HERE Endorses Senator Barack Obama-@ UNITE HERE 1.9.08

January 9, 2008 Copy & distribute to all staff

UNITE HERE Endorses Senator Barack Obama

The Executive Committee of UNITE HERE has voted to endorse Senator Barack Obama for President. On behalf of nearly one million members and retirees, the union announced that it will be supporting the campaign in primaries and caucuses throughout the nation.

“Barack Obama began his career organizing working families who were trying to pick up their lives as their industries were leaving them behind. As he entered politics, we knew that he would understand our members and we supported him from the start,” explained General President Bruce Raynor. “Our organization and our members will do everything in our power to see that he reaches the White House this fall, because we know he will bring working Americans with him.”

Since the day he took a job in Chicago fighting for families who had been devastated by steel plant closings over two decades ago, Senator Obama has been a champion of working Americans. He marched with striking workers at Chicago’s Congress Plaza Hotel picket line as a state senator and U.S. Senator. He spoke at the founding convention of UNITE HERE in 2004, and he has worked extensively with the Culinary Workers Union Local 226 in Nevada supporting their latest contract campaign. As President, he will fight for and sign into law the Employee Free Choice Act, an increase in the minimum wage, and affordable health care for every American.

“Barack Obama is not a fair weather friend to working Americans, he has been there when the going gets rough, on the picket line with hotel workers again and again and there when we need him,” says President/Hospitality Industries John Wilhelm. “Even among this impressive field of candidates, we are proud to offer him our support in this election, and eager to help him win.”

“Barack Obama has shown us that he understands our members' struggles and dreams,” explained D. Taylor, the Secretary-Treasurer of the Culinary Workers Union Local 226. “He stood with our Union in every step of our recent contract negotiations and showed us that he too understands that organizing and bringing people together is how we move forward. We want to make the American dream we have established in Las Vegas a reality for the entire country and we think that Senator Obama will take us there."

“What we have to make real is the idea that in this country, we value the labor of every American,” said Senator Obama. “We must respect that labor and reward it with a few basic guarantees - wages that can raise a family, health care if we get sick, a retirement that's dignified, working conditions that are safe. That vision is what I’ve been fighting for two decades, as a community organizer, civil rights attorney, state senator and U.S. Senator, and it’s what I’ll fight for as President. I’m honored to receive UNITE HERE’s endorsement, and to carry on this fight in the White House.”

Since Richardson just dropped out - any speculation if he'll endorse Hillary or Barack?

it was her warm and fuzzy moment. If you look closely she was tearing up because life on the campaign trail was so hard after losing Iowa."

And I'll look again at the vid.  She mentioned how life was hard for HER.  At first, I thought it was sincere.  I've changed my mind.  After her IA thumpin,' I think she was taken aside and told that she had to look human and appeal to women.  So she did that and women fell for it becuz we have a displaced anger backlash amongst women.

That said, the entrance polls were apparently spot on for the repugs...but turned out incorrect for HC and BO?  We were saying in the blog last night that something was fishy.  And then there were the votes given to some unknown and later they mysteriously disappeared.  Where did they go?

BO conceded way too early and didn't seem upset, did he?   He even sounded like he'd won.  Suspicious me.  I'll go way out on a limb and suggest that perhaps this NH vote was indeed fixed and and a HC/BO ticket is already assured.

Those damn Diebolds again.  They sure love repugs.  Why doesn't BO demand a recount, knowing what we're finding out today?   

dog soldier

I will stay home.

seashell - Upthread I posted the comments from the woman who asked Hillary the question that led to the teary moment. She voted for Barack.

I have a hunch that the Clintonista's pressured Richardson into dropping out in the hopes that Hillary could win Nevada. But I hope he will support Obama.

I think the issue folks have with Edwards is he says great populous things but when he had the chance, he did anything but support populist choices.
That is the problem with being a Senator; You have to live with votes you may not care for to move bills through the Senate. Obama hasn't been around that long to cast that many questionable bills.

My two main issues are the war and health care. Edwards has the best plans. The question is does that mean anything or will he turn his back on folks like he did in the Senate.
It helps that I personally know his committment to raising the minimum wage. The common question seems to be is he really on the side to help people or is he treating all like a jury? It looks like the public made up their minds in Iowa and New Hampshire about Edwards. A few others make up their minds in a few weeks.

Another thing that is noise is the Democrasts who consistently vote the Dem party line. The last time I checked, HC has about a 97% approval rating from the DCDem party(She did not vote on the bankruptsy bill). That is pretty useless because the Dems sell out to Repubs a good part of the time (97%?). You will probably find a lower number for Obama and a higher number then Obama but less then Hillary for Edwards. Someone like Fiengold is at the bottom when voting the Dem Party line.
A vote for HC is a vote for the standard DCDem which is nearly the standard Repub party line.
The reason I mention this is some blogs have been talking about HCs voting the Dem party line. She has but it is the Dem party line and process that is flawed.

I agree with Indy and Phil about the diff between BO and HC.  Hope for what?  What are you offering?  Details please.  He seems to appeal to magical thinking....hope for it and it'll happen.

The si, se puede also appeals to the Latinos.  He knows that.  He's very good at hooking people in and is manipulative. 

If the fix isn't in for HC, then I think BO should hook up soon with JE.  Then Edwards can back out at the appropriate moment, giving BO the edge and the votes.  The alternative is to let HC have it.

JE is not a spoiler; he's the most sincere candidate IMO.   And I predict that his numbers will rise fast now as people begin to hear him.

BO and HC will try now to sound just like JE.  They know he's a threat, once the CM starts giving him face time.

DNC members the whole list http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Members_o...

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