Howard Dean is first.

1.

Seconded.

Did you all see Howard speaking at the state NH Democratic dinner last night? Looks and sounds great though I didn't see the enthusiasm from the 3,000 attendees that I would have like to have heard/seen. Perhaps they don't appreciate or even know about the difficult job Dean has been doing so well at.

The Obama crowd was there though loud and clear. I had to laugh watching Richardson after his little speech trying to make his way through the Obama signs and O-B-A-M-A cheers going on.

This blog front is really a local piece about Brevard County (Kennedy Space Center), although the issue is a state-wide tax amendment coming up Jan. 29.

Our county will also have an information session as probably most counties will. Vote YES!

Still wondering why Dodd never really caught fire.  Not enough campaign $$$$?  Poor campaign org?  Curious about that one.

Unfortunately, dollars win. The leading pair have amassed obscene amounts of money, and those donors are going to want a return on their investment.

Also, the leading candidates have stopped even paying lip-service to publicly financed elections

12:48 pm

4.

Huron John
Sat, 01/05/08



Still wondering why Dodd never really caught fire. Not enough campaign $$$$? Poor campaign org? Curious about that one.



Unfortunately, dollars win.

--------

Not necessarilly though. Yes, Obama has raised about 100 million and has spennt most of that too. The top spender on Iowa commercials too, to the tune of 9 million. Even Hill only spent 7. LOL

But, Edwards spent a fraction of that and he came in 2nd. And Huckabee hardly spent a bit and he was top vote getter in Iowa too.

...and mary posted a poll that shows Edwards already increased on his polling numbers. So if people care about this country and the issues, they could ride the momentum wave for John Edwards and pick him. And that will be with much less money needing to create a pseudo message, one of substance.

Dennis talked about this on Bill Moyer's last night.
The MSM determined from day one the three Dem candidates are Hillary, Obama and Edwards. The others are frozen out of debate activity and news articles.
Dennis made excellent points about how media owners are ruining Democracy and ownership must follow the FCC rules currently in place.
Since the ruling politicos benefit from the unholy alliance between corporate establishments and media producers, this, as well as publically financed elections will not occur.

This is the same issue with publicly funded health care. As long as the massive dollars flow to insurance companies and stay there, there is no incentive to change.
President Obama would try to negotiate changes that benefits consumers and producers and financers of medical care. This would still screw consumers unless insurance companies are neutered.
President Edwards will add his publicly funded plan to the mix and tell the insurance companies to deal with it.

I think Edwards wins on health care.

Just got off the phone with a Obama volunteer from Missouri looking for $$$. Had a long chat with him...he thought Edwards gave a better speech in Iowa, thinks Obama will win NH with Edwards taking a close second and he thinks eventually Obama and Edwards will team up. Republicans are toast this time with majority of new voters against them...understood why I wasn't donating and said Obama has plenty of $$$ anyway.
Now back to the woodpile.

6.

Linda

poppy cock!

Obama and Clinton both spent between 21 and 22 million, Edwards about 7 million on ads in Iowa.

Those are the actual facts which is what this blog used to be about before the newbies moved in.

Hi Folks,

Just a quick hello.  Had a thought yesterday.  The Clinton faction had something to do (maybe a lot) with Howard Dean's fall in 2004, the latte drinking, BMW driving liberal ad and various other machinations.  I can't help but feel a kind of poetic justice has occurred with Obama and Edward's displacing Hillary.  Sort of "what goes around comes around"?!  Maybe though, I am just enjoying a kind of gleeful revenge, which is simply despicable ; )

Yes, Howard Dean is a real hero, and we have much to thank him for.  

Also, with respect to Christopher Dodd, I like him very much as well.  There's the charisma factor in politicians, and I don't think there's much we can do about that.  Some people just have an ability to attact people.  The hope is that given those charismatic attributes, there's also ethics, integrity, and the ability to take responsiblity and serve the people.  

Have been reading the latest New Yorker magazine.  An article about the UN doomed mission in Iraq by Samantha Power tells how Sergio Vieira de Mello tried to deal with the ignorance, ideology, arrogance, and disastrous American mission under Paul Bremer.  It's enough to make me weep and curse.  The whole world knew about this disastrous mission, and yet  they weren't able to stop the Bush Administration.  The article is entitled, "The Envoy", and you can probably read it online if you are interested. 

Linda wrote "Indeed. Actions like votes by Obama don't match those words."

I'm sorry.  Which candidate are we discussing again?

8.

Reed -

That's what I'm hoping for -- Obama/Edwards '08.

LOL...Joan, what part are you calling poppy cock

Surely you're joking.  Obama spent 21.5 million dollar is the 3rd

 quarter alone, 21 Million in the 2nd......4th quarter not out yet and FACT

is he spent 9 million dollars on ads.  So I'm really curious as to what

part you are calling POPPY COCK. 

It is astounding that progressives are also who this blog stands with yet some here seek to destroy their candidacy.

Obama, Edwards and Kucinich are the only progressives in this primary so please support them.

ABB (anybody but Bush) didn't wortk so well in '04.

ABB (anything but Barack) most likely won't work so well in '08.

But if those want to try ABB, feel free to do so.

The Issues I and most of Americans care about.

I LIKE IT!!!

 15.

Joan -

Amen to that.

.....ohhhh oh no, lets not talk about facts, lets just have fall in line.  NO MIND.

much better to attack a blogger for posting information supposed 

activists should care about, than to work on for getting the best

change.  

I've never seen so much attacking of people than I have from Obama supporters.

I guess that is a sample of what people can expect from the candidate. 

14. ABB?

I certainly don't feel that way. I see Obama as a better candidate than Hillary. I don't like his rhetoric on making nice with Repubs, Big Pharma, Big Health care, and other Corporate monsters.

That's why of the "big 3", I prefer Edwards.

1:15 pm

Linda wrote "I've never seen so much attacking of people than I have from Obama supporters."

Pay more attention and you will.

I know this may come to a shock by the Obama (supporters), but this isn't your blog that the many other thousands cannot post about their issues or candidate without being personally attacked.

20. They'll only be happy with "all Obama, all the time"

1:17

rd - It won't happen - an Obama/Edwards ticket. Edwards didn't even take his own state last time around. Yes, his conversion appears solid but it won't happen IMO.

21. Indeed, by example upthread shows.

John wrote "They'll only be happy with 'all Obama, all the time'"

Just speaking personally, I've been really enjoying your posts regarding Edwards and Kucinich. It's the posts about Obama that I think lack substance.

There are Progressives and there Progressives.
Look at their funding. Only Edwards is not taking money from PACs. Does this make Edwards a Progressive and Obama less so?
Look at heath care where Edwards is clearly more progressive.
Look at the war where only Kucinich is progressive. The leading three Dems are Bush-lite with Edwards being the most progressive.
Look at Dodd who doesn't get the mantle of being called a progressive but wants to restore the rule of law in the Congress and Presidency.
So we need to be careful throwing the progressive label around. Some are and some aren't on each issue.

mary vb -

Well, I still hope Obama/Edwards is the winning dem ticket -- time will tell.

ciao everyone (and I'm so glad we finally got out of single digit weather here in the Boson area !)

Huron, maybe *rd is trying to tell us something.  The same Obama supporters were ABH (anybody but Hillary) and now that he's marketing an ABB (anybody but Barack), maybe he feels thats what will happen in 08 as he pointed out. Good to know that now than later.  Thank you *rd.

Linda "Indeed, by example upthread shows."

Upthread?  Try 2007.  Do we need a tabulation?  

What will Keith Olbermann say about this World's Worst Person supporting Hillary?

Gulp.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/1/5/12335...

Maybe Bill O is looking for amunition? What a riot. Watch the vid.

Of course the Obama posts are without substance. lol

Linda wrote "The same Obama supporters were ABH (anybody but Hillary)."

It suddenly occurs to me that the reason you think Obama supporters attack people is because you expect to be able to just say things without any dispute regarding the substance of the representation.  The ensuing dialogue is characterized as an attack.

audrey wrote "Of course the Obama posts are without substance. lol."

In terms of Linda's hypothesis, I would propose that this comment, for example, easily falls into the category of an attack. 

From about 4 threads ago,
65.

Monica Smith
Sat, 01/05/08

what I meant when I said Obama needed to 'demonstrate his faith' was simply that he needed to advertise that he goes to a Christian church. I say this not for myself who does not go to a Christian (or any other) church, but for my fellow southerners who bought the Faux news report that Obama is a Madrassa trained Muslim perhaps b/c it is perceived as OK to express this reservation but not PC to express it about his blackness.

Did anyone hear the woman from MISS this morning on CSPAN saying Hillary shouldn't be Pres b/c a woman's place was in the home? At least she was honest. Don't the Southern Baptists have something in their platform about women deferring to their husbands?

dog soldier thanks for the testimonial about Kerry's prosecutorial skills -- I must say until I read your post I've thought of him as the fluffiest of fluff pieces.

And no segue really but all I have to say about Edwards is twenty eight thousand square feet.

And I know you've all been waiting for this -- the Henry VIII wife that Donizetti wrote an opera about was --------- Anne Bolyn.

And now that I've p*ssed off all the Edwards fans, I'll bbl :~)

Except Pat I read something prolly in Vanity Fair about the fellow de Mello who was murdered in Baghdad trying to do the right thing on Bremer's watch. Tragic.

John makes a good point that an AB(?) is bad stragegy. A losing hand is to be against somebody instead of being for somebody.
The ABBush crowd went for the mystical electability factor which supports a candidate for some unspecified reason.
To be strong in an election, the electorate must be for something specific about a candidate.
For instance, I favor Edwards because of his health care view.
I strongly favor Kucinich for his health care and anti-war views.
I can't tell where Obama trumps Edwards in anything.
I can't tell where anybody tops Kucinich in anything.
I don't do charisma or race or accent or hair style. I do views and programs.
So I still favor Kucinich then Edwards. After that Obama then either Huckabee or Clinton.

It usually falls into "twist" it into whatever you want it to be. Keep smiling.

13.

Linda,

 How about all of it.

My figures were actually much too great.  Here's the lowdown:

On the Republican side, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney has spent close to $7 million for 8,500 spots, about five times more than former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee has spent ($1.4 million) for 1,800 ads. Former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee is close behind, spending $1.1 million for 1,100 ads.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/01/iowa.ad.spending/index.html

If Edwards is not happy about that, he should have spent more of his money on ads instead of crying about what others have done.

TOM WROTE:


Linda wrote "The same Obama supporters were ABH (anybody but Hillary)."

It suddenly occurs to me that the reason you think Obama supporters attack people is because you expect to be able to just say things without any dispute regarding the substance of the representation. The ensuing dialogue is characterized as an attack.

____________________________

Now that's funny. Hardly. No, the Obama supporters are the ones that throw anything out and not want to answer for it. That claim on me doesn't fit.

I post informaiton about fundraising. And because I mentioned Obama, Joan says "Poppy Cock" in not liking what I posted and instead of responding to my question, she resorts to:



Joan* In*Florida
Sat, 01/05/08

It is astounding that progressives are also who this blog stands with yet some here seek to destroy their candidacy.

Obama, Edwards and Kucinich are the only progressives in this primary so please support them."



And then *rdorgan resorts to Cheer that on.

15.

Joan -

Amen to that.


__________________________

So Tom, where is the intelligent debate on the issues here?

Thank you Joan for showing I was correct and so were my figures.

dog wrote "I can't tell where Obama trumps Edwards in anything."

For Christ's sakes.  Let's say you are elected to office you're presented with the decision of whether to simply cede the right to attack and occupy a sovereign nation, unprovoked, send countless thousands to their deaths, and help destroy the lives of hundreds of thousands more.  Would you hesitate or co-sponsor a bill to authorize the action with Joe Lieberman?

Planning his next career?

THis is funny.

Quick Vote

Would Bill Clinton make a good Supreme Court justice?

Yes 43% 38977
No 57% 51717


......I would have never imagined that may to take that question so seriously.

Linda wrote "Now that's funny."

All I have to say is of course all posts about Obama lack substance.

Well, this sure has been exciting. I'm off.

Thanks, Phil & Linda, for *getting* what was posted last thread; my 'puter started acting up for some reason. I certainly don't blanche at *cuss words* but I rarely use them. Still, some like our Fox want to smear like mad, without getting their facts correct.

********
Anni, when Sergio di Mello was murdered in Baghdad, this whole area went into mourning. My own boss had actually been in a meeting at the UN compound that morning, but ... fortunately, for us all ... had left shortly before the bombing and was on his way to Jordan at the time.

We had some very bad moments until we were able to establish that he was all right.

Too many good people, especially too many Iraqi civilians, have been murdered on the putzCo watch.

No, to putzCo and no to those who continue the enabling. Edwards hasn't enabled since 2004 and he has regretted ever having done so. That's good enough for me to give him a second chance.

..."that maNy" to take that question so seriously.

dog soldier.....

You said it all. A solid analysis, and the most intelligent post so far of the candidates.

Tom,
Missed that one....thanks.
I was going over their web pages comparing views.

But remember, both Edwards and Obama agreed to bomb Iran and Pakistan; so it isn't as clearcut as you think. Only Dennis and Gravel said no.

Judy wrote "Still, some like our Fox want to smear like mad, without getting their facts correct."

Fox hates swearing. 

Finally, and this IS my last for now, I promise.

***********
dog soldier's comments about the *Arkansas Hillary* resonate with me. If she were still that person, she would be a true progressive.

Phil's comments about letting Hillary be Hillary, instead of being so poll-driven or subject to advisors who have themselves and not her in the forefront, also resonate. For her really to turn things around, IMO, it would mean that she first sincerely apologize for her initial vote on Iraq, as well as all the subsequent ones, and for her Kyl-Lieberman vote. I don't believe either that she can or that she will.

It's really too bad, because the *Arkansas Hillary* was my kind of gal. I might even have swallowed my Gore disappointment and really gone to bat for her had she not become an AIPAC-RW-controlled corporatist in the years since.

That's why of the "big 3", I prefer Edwards."

HuJo, that's essentially what my support for Edwards came down to.  When I try to winnow down the single most important issue to me I think about the fact that corporations really have more power than nations do.

As Rich often says, the system is broken.  I don't know that Edwards can fix all that is wrong but he has made a central plank of his platform just that....taking on corporations. 

And no segue really but all I have to say about Edwards is twenty eight thousand square feet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the tax adjuster added all of the barn to the total because it is connected by breezeways under one roof to sock it to him

that is a swiftie attack but they work don't they?

He did build a mansion, and it isn't just a southern thing because Roseanne Barr and Tom Arnold did that in Iowa just because they could.

don't know what is is about highly successful people but there are a lot of houses in America built too big

heck true of most middle class new houses

dog wrote "But remember, both Edwards and Obama agreed to bomb Iran and Pakistan; so it isn't as clearcut as you think."

Well, I don't think they've agreed to.  They've agreed not to remove those as options if, as president, the need to do so became evident.  Kucinich and Gravel, from what I understand, may have removed that option from the available alternatives.

cC wrote "I don't know that Edwards can fix all that is wrong but he has made a central plank of his platform just that....taking on corporations."

Of course not.  That would be fortune telling.  The best you can do is to speculate whether he can fix all that from what we know about the period of time when he actually had some control of the levers of power in Washington.

Tom,
I am referring to direct questions at one of the debates.
Both said they would bomb Iran is it got nuclear weapons.
Both said they would attack target(s) in Pakistan if there was a chance to get an al Queda head.
Obama went into a strange discourse about it depends on the amount of civilians that would die.
They both answered the question wrong.

dog wrote "I am referring to direct questions at one of the debates. Both said they would bomb Iran is it got nuclear weapons."

The exchange is not in front of me.  If you are aware that both unequivocally stated they would bomb Iran upon the lone condition that it acquired nuclear capability, then your statement's correct and I'm wrong.

55,
Hillary, Obama and Edwards made mistakes in the phony terror war.
I want to know where they go from here.
Hillary and Obama leave them in longer doing things they can't do.
Edwards gets them out sooner. Does this offset his origional vote?

Unfortunately, dollars win

Not always, as per Huckabee's win -- and most unfortunately, as per Dean's loss.

dog wrote "Hillary, Obama and Edwards made mistakes in the phony terror war."

What were Obama's mistakes?

Obama, Edwards and Kucinich are the only progressives in this primary so please support them.

Edwards talks like one, but didn't vote like one. Obama doesn't talk like one, but has more often voted like one. Only Kucinich does both.

To be strong in an election, the electorate must be for something specific about a candidate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

dog I disagree

It is true that there has to be something specific but lets take the current field

Edwards came out with a detailed plan to move to universal health care, followed by the other two, and they all were forced to by a demanding electorate, but the specific details of the differences are not what voters will use in that decision.

Obama sent the Senate a timetable for withdrawal with benchmarks, but cautioned that we have to be "sensible" getting out, Edwards has moved from a very similar position to something a little faster, Clinton a little slower, but again they all agree on direction and the need to let events on the ground and military planners to be partners, and again the specifics though they differ will not be a deciding factor.

voters (except for jaywalkers) are considered enough to go through a checklist, are they qualified? do I like them? are they looking after my interests? do they share my values? but in the end to be elected President as a Democrat you need to invite the voter to join a larger movement to make the world a better place with a vision that includes them in that better future, and it is more emotive and certainly not specifics that trip most voter's triggers

 Let's say you are elected to office you're presented with the decision of whether to simply cede the right to attack and occupy a sovereign nation, unprovoked, send countless thousands to their deaths, and help destroy the lives of hundreds of thousands more.  Would you hesitate or co-sponsor a bill to authorize the action with Joe Lieberman?

Of course I'd hesitate to imitate Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo. 

53.  building houses is the only thing left to do for people who like to work outside, just about.

As far as I've heard, Edwards paid for the construction of his house himself--didn't get donations like the Clintons or Nixon for San Clemente.

On the other hand, the Huckabees put themselves on a gift registry when they moved into a new house.  Now that's tacky, if you ask me. 

59,
Obama did not vote for the war resolution but has opted to bomb Iran and Pakistan.

The Pakistan bombing announcement was measured by it being the last option. He then went on to discuss only if the casualties were below a certain number.

The big three candidates were gotchaed. None had the foresight to look at the big pitcure.

Blitzer did a good job of suckering them into a scenario that occured in 2002(?).

at the caucus an Edwards supporter switched to Hillary after expressing some vitrol about "illegal aliens" in trying to win some from the Richardson group, and was disavowed by fellow Edwards supporters, and ended up going to Clinton because "she won't give them drivers license " (which was on her mailer from the day before)

the only argument I heard about a specific reason to support a candidate

so yes a campaign spreads around specific ideas so as to attract that kind of voter, but they are a minority (and again all of my posts are IMHO)

As far as I've heard, Edwards paid for the construction of his house himself--didn't get donations like the Clintons or Nixon for San Clemente.

I'd expect it from Nixon. But you'd think the Clintons would have asked that the money be given to Habitat for Humanity instead. And who who have given multimillionaire Edwards money to build a fancier house anyway?

62,
Fred,
I disagree with you. Vision is empty rehetoric unless it is backed up with a plan on how to get there.
Of the big three, the best talker is Edwards with the best health plan and the best Iraq exit plan.
Obama tries for the vision thing but I am not as happy with his campaign specifics. I see a disconnect that needs to be connected.

Will the young folks who came out to support Obama in Iowa be there for him in November? He has a chance to seal the deal.

Will the young folks who came out to support Obama in Iowa be there for him in November?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

absolutely, heck they came out in record numbers for Kerry

Vision is empty rehetoric unless it is backed up with a plan on how to get there.

It also needs to be backed up by a record to match. 

that "vision thing" one termed Bush one

Bill had it, Hillary doesn't (yet) but if she would come up with one it would be trouble for the other two

I would love to continue this discussion but I gotta run.

Howdy all! Passing through as usual *sigh* but promise to be around more soon. :-)

Happy Happy New Year

♥'s to all

Kindness is Free!

(1:28 cst)

KEEP EDWARDS'S HOPE ALIVE...

Outspent 6 to 1, John Edwards' fiery populist message beat the Clinton machine in Iowa.

Unafraid to use the "C" word--Corporate power and greed--Edwards appeared Thursday night to be a man in motion and on a mission. Exhausted from his "middle class marathon" tour, his passionate and unconventional non-concession speech was a challenge to the status quo powers which are depriving decent Americans of healthcare, jobs and their democracy. "The status quo lost and change won," Edwards told the Iowa crowd.

Some have compared Iowa's winner Barack Obama to JFK, and his elegant, broad-gauged and inspiring words of change and hope brought home the historic moment he embodies. Yet Edwards, in these last months, has reminded me of another Kennedy--Bobby--whose political and intellectual odyssey was linked to the passion and, yes, anger he felt as he witnessed grinding poverty in Appalachia and racist inequality in the barrios of the richest country in the world.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignm...

IMO--Obama is highly charismatic. Very very good with a large group making a speech. Can move people emotionally. Some have compared him to JFK. The difference, imo, is JFK was extremely witty & could think on his feet. Very good in debates. Obama has a good sense of humor, but is not as quick on his feet in debates. Takes too long to make a point. My concern is will he follow thru & get something done? Or is it all talk & no action.

Hillary with all her negatives & her faults, will get it done. Her previous record before she was even with Bill, showed she worked & got it done, whatever it was.

Edwards, actually, works a mile a minute. He's not afraid of work, that's for sure. I like his ideas. Love his wife

On the repubs., only McCain seems to move people emotionally & has proven he will follow thru. I just don't agree with many of his stances, including this horrible war.

Huckabee is extremely likeable & charming. It scares me, because I think people vote for who they like, a lot of time.

Obama moves people on an emotional level, as Dean did. I believe emotion trumps most things. We'll see.

I, personally, don't have a dog in this fight except that I will not be voting for any republican under any circumstances. 

Hillary with all her negatives & her faults, will get it done. Her previous record before she was even with Bill, showed she worked & got it done, whatever it was.

Bush has "gotten things done." It what they do that matters. 

Edwards, actually, works a mile a minute. He's not afraid of work, that's for sure. I like his ideas. Love his wife

They all work hard. His ideas aren't backed up by his record. I don't vote for spouses -- especially ones who double as attack dogs. 

KEEP EDWARDS'S HOPE ALIVE...

So is Edwards now stealing Obama's themes, as he did Dean's? It's good thing for Edwards that political rhetoric can't be coryrighted.

65.

Obama did not vote for the war resolution but has opted to bomb Iran and Pakistan.

The Pakistan bombing announcement was measured by it being the last option. He then went on to discuss only if the casualties were below a certain number.

dog,

What?!?! If you are referring to the Iran Resolution, Obama did not vote for it. Nor would he ever unless Iran attacked us which they have no means nor incliniation to do.

As far as Pakistan, his statement was also measured having by his reasons for going into Pakistan in the first place, which would be to have our troops go in to  take out the Al-Queda in in the mountainous regions between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Linda - John King of CNN just had all the candidates on - he devoted several minutes to Edward's Live stump speech. Finally, he got some respectable coverage. I do hear a lot of Dean/Obama rhetoric (as Sitka noted) in his speech.

What?!?! If you are referring to the Iran Resolution, Obama did not vote for it.

I think he's referring to Obama's statement that he would bomb Pakistan if he thought it necessary.

I thought it was the wrong thing to say, but it was hardly, "opted to bomb Iran and Pakistan."

Hillary's message is very muddled. Experience, change and now ready. If that's the evolution of her msg it's fuzzy and increasingly desperate. Bill's looking pretty bad. Bright red and tired. Good grief - give the man a nap.

77.

KEEP EDWARDS'S HOPE ALIVE...

So is Edwards now stealing Obama's themes, as he did Dean's? It's good thing for Edwards that political rhetoric can't be coryrighted.

Edwards, like Clinton, has also adopted the "change" theme for themselves:

For the past month or so Clinton has subtly invoked the words 'In a New Direction" which Nancy Pelosi has used successfully countless time for several years.

Hillary's message is very muddled. Experience, change and now ready.

She's already used up all of her reinventions. And you're right about Bill. He's lost the touch. The only one that impresses me is Chelsea. 

For the past month or so Clinton has subtly invoked the words 'In a New Direction" which Nancy Pelosi has used successfully countless time for several years.

If this election is about the future then McCain is in trouble. He's being covered on CNN right now and everyone sitting on stage with him look like they are well, all over 70.

76.

You're right sitka. They all have been working hard is for sure. All these candidates, especially the ones still in the mix and now competing in NH have got to be exhausted.

Obama almost lost his voice the night of the Iowa caucus. I'd like to tell him to drink water when speaking, it's the only way to protect your voice.

I suspect all of the candidates got off the plane in Manchester, NH sometime in the middle of the night. Clinton, Obama and Richardson then had to race to Nashua for their speeches (Kucinich not in Iowa).

Sitka and Mary...it seems some people forgot that John Edwards had the "Hope for America" in 2004. So does that mean Obama has been copying him, as been using his Pastors Church speeches?

And Sitka, careful, you're getting too hot for John :) That article was an ARTICLES title, not what John Edwards said.

Obama almost lost his voice the night of the Iowa caucus. I'd like to tell him to drink water when speaking, it's the only way to protect your voice.

I remember Bill Clinton losing his voice at the end of the 1992 campaign. It made him look like he'd gone the extra mile. 

And Sitka, careful, you're getting too hot for John :) That article was an ARTICLES title, not what John Edwards said.

It looked like an article that was written by the Edwards campaign -- or used talking points provided by them. 

85.

mary

I think the old man McCain is the Repugs' only hope.

If they don't put out a candidate who can get at least 30% of the vote, IMHO that party will be in a life threatening situation where even major surgery may not help.

Not that McCain will do the trick, but I can just see them now if a Huckleberry or Romney should win the nomination. It would be fun to see from this prospective however:))

I think the old man McCain is the Repugs' only hope.

It must be remembered from Reagan and Bush that ANYBODY can become president and even be given another term.

Never overestimate American voters. 

Joan - I personally like a real mix in a campaign, all ages, walks of life, etc. I think McCain should have mixed up the people on stage unless he's speaking at a nursing home or something. The one thing the media is fixated on with Obama's campaign (as they were with Dean) is they focus on just the young people. What about the rest of us????

Maybe I am cynical, but suddenly Clinton speech live on CNN has a back drop of very uninterested high school kids.  LOL  so typical.  And she looks really tired in front of all those baby faces.

89.

Sitka
Sat, 01/05/08


And Sitka, careful, you're getting too hot for John :) That article was an ARTICLES title, not what John Edwards said.

It looked like an article that was written by the Edwards campaign -- or used talking points provided by them.

-------->>>But Sikta, that wasn't what you said, you said:


Sika wrote: KEEP EDWARDS'S HOPE ALIVE...

So is Edwards now stealing Obama's themes, as he did Dean's?

Fox, ridiculing the Female or young voters who see an excitement in having a Woman President isn't a smart plan.

Looking back, I think the looooong primary campaign has been good at seeing a lot of what each candidate (Dems) really stands for, how honest they are, and where they say they intend to take us.

If this campaign had started last summer, Hillary would be winning by a landslide. But many have had a chance to view who she really is and represents as opposed to the other candidates. That's been a big positive.

Experience is beginning to tell us that late-comers to the contest may have plenty to hide. Time is not their friend. 

Did Judy write this?  "I might even have swallowed my Gore disappointment and really gone to bat for her had she not become an AIPAC-RW-controlled corporatist in the years since."

And, IMO, Obama is her accomplice in that.  Or getting there fast.

I think JE has the better children's education plan, health plan, de-occupation plan and what I really love is that he's going after the corporations, knowing full well that they have the power to knock him out of the race.   I'm sorry none of the 3 have addressed the MCA, Patriot Act or destruction of the Constitution the way Kucinich and Dodd have.  None of the 3 have said, "I will give the power back to the people."  At least I haven't heard that.  My sense is that of the 3, JE may be the one to at least consider it.

******************

How long do we have to hold a man's past mistakes against him when he admits he was wrong?  Most people can't even admit it when they're wrong.  Second chance, you bet!  

Obama appeals to the youth becuz he's *different.* His skin is a different color, his name is different.  He's a backlash against the fat white guys in power but that's not enuf to crown him.  What youth doesn't weigh carefully is the measure of a man, his inner substance, and frankly, we older folks have much more ability to discern a truth teller from a pontificating orator than a 17 year old boy.  Generally.  Obama perhaps isn't a liar.  I'm sure he thinks he's telling the truth and his intentions are polly honorable.

I could vote for an Edwards/Obama ticket. 

I am impressed that the youth may choose our next nominee, Obama, even tho many of us prefer JE.  What I don't like is that IA again sets the stage and NH may follow along  becuz of the *youth* vote.

I noticed yesterday that Obama is dropping his g's, as in thinkin'.  Sounds Bushie to me.  Has he always done this?  Good orators don't do this.  Or do they these days? 

He's philosophical, up in the clouds with grand ideas and talk of making nicey nice.  That's very troubling.  You can't make nicely nice with these people.

 Where is that poll showing Edwards surging?  I didn't see a link.

S/O said people will vote their values this year, not just the issues, or maybe not the issues.  That's likely true of the repugs.  I'm not sure about the dems.  I really like Dodd and I'm sad he's knocked out....since freedom is my highest value. 

Perhaps JE could work that into a speech. 

Fox, ridiculing the Female or young voters who see an excitement in having a Woman President isn't a smart plan.

I did not think it was ridicule to point out that two days ago she lost those under 40 by a 51-16 margin and she shows up in NH in front of a bunch of teenagers.  Some "brilliant" focus group came up that one I am sure. My wife is a life long democrat who is an attorney and is desperate for a woman presdent but cannot bring her self to support her because she was so sick of Bill by 2000 that she voted for Bush and has been bitching at me about it ever since.  She told me she doesn't think she could take four years of him in te spot light again.  She was sooo hoping  Clinton would stand up for herself and get rid of him while he was chasing skirts, but her failure to do that disappointed her.  My wife really has it in for women that ride the husband for success.  She finds it demeaning, which is why after 21 years of marriage she still uses her maiden name.  Clinton has lost a lot of women for just that reason.  Fair or not.

92.

mary

I don't believe who or what they put on stage has any effect on viewers unless those people are distracting, like one old guy I saw that was visibly falling asleep up there:) But some of these candidates think it is important.

97.

I noticed yesterday that Obama is dropping his g's, as in thinkin'.  Sounds Bushie to me.  Has he always done this?  Good orators don't do this.  Or do they these days? 

He's prolly gunning up for South Carolina where they ALL speak like that.

I'd rather have Edwards speaking "Dean", than Obama dissing him.

Bill O is having a meltdown - well, he's always having a meltdown but it's getting worse.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/OReilly_us...

I drop my g's more so each day I'm back in the south but it depend a lot on who I'm talking to, what I'm talking about, perhaps how tired I am. Obama has what I would call a 'soft southern' accent and you wonder where the heck he got it -- except maybe from his wife? Maybe it IS an affectation. Altho it doesn't sound fake (like movie southern accents.)

Rick Steves was in Milano and Lake Como today where I was last summer -- felt like a home movie. He commented in the film how they saw art in Europe that Europeans had admired for centuries and they had to seriously contemplate whether they could show it on TV b/c of US's 'early 21st century' acceptance of 'fleshiness.' Geez -- maybe the American Taliban are already here. I"m still convinced that the incredible Mrs. whatever her name was on Masterpiece Theatre was stopped in mid plot b/c they were sympathetic to the character who terminated her pregnancy.

I don't like Edwards espec, or Kucinich or Paul but I think it's awful Edwards isn't getting proper media coverage or that Kucinich and Paul (I think) don't get to be in the debates. It will be difficult to sit through the Repugs.

Yes, Joan, I think he's gearing up for SC and maybe it's good politics but to me it's manipulation, and coming from a Constiutional lawyer, it sounds demeaning to himself.  Is he so afraid of losing that he has to lower his own standards?  Is he so determined to win that he's lost sight of his inner truth?

At least JE is who he is and doesn't try to make himself into a pretzel.  That's it!  Another big difference.  BO wants to please all the people all the time...not a healthy trait in any human being.  JE doesn't try to do that.   

another poll


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1...

I live in a palace (a woman's home is her castle after all) (for one) and it's all of 1200 sq feet. What do you do with 28 thousand sq feet? And who cleans it? How can anyone with a 28 thousand sq ft house be championing for the 'middle class'? Am I the only one seeing something phony here?

Just passing through and saw sea's comment. Yes, I did write the comment about Hillary and thus it, unlike others that were incorrectly attributed to me, can correctly be atrributed to me.

***********
Have just viewed a very interesting documentary about the Moghul Empire. It is especially interesting in light of current events in Pakistan and surrounding areas.

For quick sketches of both the Mongol and the Moghul Empires, see the Wiki versions. These brief glimpses may interest you to check both out more in depth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empi...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_Empi...

Particularly interesting is this, from the Moghul Empire sketch.

**************
[...]
After the invasion of Persia by the Mongol Empire, a regional Turko-Persio-Mongol dynasty formed. Just as eastern Mongol dynasties inter-married with locals and adopted the local religion of Buddhism and the Chinese culture, this group adopted the local religion of Islam and the Persian culture. The first Mughal King, Babur, established the Mughal dynasty in regions spanning parts of present-day Pakistan and India. Upon invading this region, the Mughals inter-married with local royalty once again, creating a dynasty of combined Turko-Persian, and Mongol background. King Babur did this to create peace among the different religions in the region. Despite preaching Islamic values himself, Babur focused on setting a good example for the Mughal Dynasty by emphasizing religious tolerance.

The language of the court was Persian. The language spoken was Urdūn, which today has advanced into Urdu. Urdūn originated from Persio-Arabic formation, and took on various characteristics of Persian, Chagatai, and Arabic. Today, Urdu is the National Language of Pakistan and is spoken by a small percentage of Indian Muslims.

[...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_Empi...

Now on my way out ... but, since the topic seems to be square footage, how many square feet is putz's house in Crawford?

Regardless of what it is, just remember who the REAL bad guy here is! It's neither JE nor BO; it's not even HRC.

Now gone.

MAD MAG'S LARRY CRAIG ISSUE

109  Judy     I agree with Judy.

While Barack spoke here in Sun Valley, UT, he dropped  Gs on some words, some not.  I don't see what the big deal is.

It must be hard to be scruntinized for everything little thing. 

Wish you guys would let up a little on the negativity here.  This is Howard's blog.  Doesn't bode well when people come here and read your comments.

104.

sea,

You may find it manipulative but I don't.

Hillary does it when she is in the south.  As Edwards moves farther south, the southern accent becomes more exaggerated.

My own accent changes while visiting friends around my former home outside of Chicago -- a very distinct upper Midwest accent. 

When in Rome . . .

Annilow - My husband agrees with you. He grew up in a very affluent family who were very unpretentious - nice home but not huge - the kids all got used cars, etc. To each his own. I do think part of the 28K feet is over the garage -- rec. area, etc. Unless you entertain by the hundreds - who needs it? It's a huge carbon footprint.

105.

Wow, this poll reflexs the spillover from Iowa.

One thing I was very impressed with the Iowans on was the fact they weren't listening to the rest of the country, they did their homework on the candidates. They take their first-in-line responsibility very seriously.

Whether the rest of the country wants to admit it, we are influenced by Iowa.

Thanks Phil, for all the updates.  

i've seen bigger...

Edwards Home County's Largest

http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusive...

109.

Judy is so right.

Any Dem nominee will be light years ahead and tons better than anyone the Repugs can dig up from their pile of slime.

Most of our Dem candidates have worked their butts off during this primary trying to show us their wares. Nitpicking will not bring out the best of all of them.

If we're always willing to vote for people who don't represent our interests just because they are a Democrat - then the system and the candidates will never change. Politicians aren't like my children who get my unconditional love.

Birthday thread over at HEP, for the Founding Mother. . . .

http://howardempowered.blogspot.com/


5:00 pm

Yes Judy is right -- I won't say anything else about Edwards's house. He's not the bad guy -- sorry for the negativity --

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1...

This poll for NH shows how Obama is capable of doing exactly what he says he can do -- bring Americans together again to get things done in Washington. The polls do not even include Republicans, many of whom came to vote for him in Iowa, though I haven't heard a percentage yet.

The size of John Edwards' house also does not matter.

JFK was from a very rich family and was wealthy himself. He stood for middle America.

Republicans crossing over to vote for Dems on election day can spell mischief. Disenchanted voters usually change registration ahead of time in anticipation of voting in another Party.

Joan* In*Florida
Sat, 01/05/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Im not aware of any poor Presidents recently................

Click for a pic of FDR's little hovel....and I believe him to be one of the greatest presidents we may ever have.

Get a grip, folks.....really.

The size of his or her digs is an issue? 

pettiness. 

mprov
Sat, 01/05/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

How many milionaire pro athletes do you know living in one bedroom shacks down by the river?

Takes trip down t your local wal mart, and watch the "poor" peole walking out of there with stereos, plasma tvs, dvd recorder.......etc......................never ceases to amaze me

mary vb
Sat, 01/05/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A great post........Ill neevr understand why many, especially around ere have these huge mansions.........makes no sense...........maybe they are trying to impres the neighbours.I dunno.......take us for eample.......2200+ sq ft............for the 3 of us thats all we need.......in a few years time the kid will be gone, then theres 2 of us, the good Lord willin and the creek dont rise.....

OOps........ dropped a g................

Ted Kennedy has never taken a salary - he donates it.

i've inspected a large number of what we call "high value" units, michael. some make edwards' place look like a shack. its interesting that what the house looks like from the ground level has more to do with its "value" than how the structure performs with intent. most houses are standard rectangular, "L" shaped, or "U" shaped. the difference with more expensive structures is that they add more corners by making cut-outs and projections. the more corners, the more expensive, but viewed from the top down they still fall into one of the 3 above. adding corners also wastes space, in my view, because of the cut-outs.

i live in a 500 sq ft apt, btw. i've been thinking of moving to get another 100 or so. its all i need.

2300 square feet for two of us... my bad!

Dilemma, dilemma, what shall I do...

Pistons vs. Celtics on same time as Dem debate! 

Sarah Susanka's *The Not So Big House* is a great book. I have the *OUtside the Not So Big House* garden design which I got for my potted containers in and for courtyard design. Pretty cool stuff. As I said earlier to each his own. Some like big houses and some don't. I prefer a bit smaller.

NEW THREAD........NEW THREAD

121.

Joan* In*Florida
Sat, 01/05/08



http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1...

This poll...shows how Obama is capable of doing exactly what he says he can do -- bring Americans together again to get things done in Washington.
----------

...lol, don't confuse reality and dream!
Pool can't show one's "capability" only BELEIVE in it.

The meaning of "believe" is related to meaning of "hope"...., and his campaign talks "hope" ("audacity of hope") all the time.

One may or may not believe his words rather than his records.

I personally tend to think that "change" he promises (as well as "experience" Hillary proclaims) are just code words for the very same status-quo.
They both will try to substitute “real” change with talks about "progress" either because of very fact of electing either black president or woman president.

Edwards, imo, became “another’s” child in that script and will be eliminated very soon!

Pistons vs. Celtics on same time as Dem debate! 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Intersting comparison..........over priced millionaires.........with possible future criminal records.....and big houses too..............

Bill Schneider's fur cap & jacket trim...what a hoot!

It's freakin' *balmy* in Manchester, NH today.

Someone pls. put that critter out of its misery--have Huckabee pop off a shot or three w/his rifle.

I can't wait to see both Billary & McCain tank tonight.

Collins & Snowe support him--with any luck, the DLC may wither away after tonight.

Enough of both Clintons, already...no "Comeback Kid" in '08.

Do you think there is a difference between what Edwards says and what his campaign does -- or promotes through friendly journalists? 

It doesn't matter if he or they steal ideas. 

I'd rather have Edwards speaking "Dean", than Obama dissing him.

I'd rather Edwards "governed Dean" when he had the chance instead of "governing Hillary."

I noticed yesterday that Obama is dropping his g's, as in thinkin'.  Sounds Bushie to me.  Has he always done this?  Good orators don't do this.  Or do they these days?

Ask Magnolia Mouth Edwards.