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Bergen Grassroots Election, Poll Results
Bergen Grassroots elected the members of its 2008 Steering Committee at our meeting yesterday evening (Weds, Jan. 2) in the Ethical Culture Society auditorium.
With six candidates filing for six vacancies, there was no need for formal balloting. The 2008 team will comprise four members of the ’07 committee: Joey Dobbs, who volunteered to become the alternate member; Paul Eisenman, Bob Gulack and Beatrice Robbio, who switched places with Joey Dobbs to become the full member. The newcomers are David Dubin of Haworth and Allen Sklar of Paramus, both relative newcomers to Bergen Grassroots as well. Allen Sklar has an impressive record of public service in his resume: three terms as a member of the Paramus Council and one term as a Bergen County Freeholder.
* * * * * *
At the meeting, the results of the Bergen Grassroots 2008 Presidential Endorsement Poll were announced. Former Senator and 2004 vice-presidential candidate John Edwards was the clear winner, leading throughout the five elimination rounds.
In the raw vote, when only first-place votes are counted, Edwards had 32%, Senator Barack Obama 22% and Congressman Dennis Kucinich had 19%. These candidates, often referred to as the “progressive trio,” gained 76% of the initial vote. Senator Hillary Clinton and Governor Bill Richardson were tied for third with 9% of the vote, Senator Joe Biden got 4% and Senator Chris Dodd received 2%. Former Senator Mike Gravel received no first-place votes and was therefore eliminated in the first round.
As Dodd and Biden were retired in the second and third rounds, their votes were redistributed on the basis of the rankings created by those who voted for them. In the fourth and fifth rounds, as Richardson and Clinton were dropped, the redistribution continued. At the end of the fifth round, Edwards stood at 40%, Obama at 34% and Kucinich at 23%.
That left the contest between Edwards and Obama, each of who could have won when Kucinich’s votes were distributed in the final round. But Edwards picked up about 83% of Kucinich’s total and ended with 59% to Obama’s 38%. This result contrasts with Kucinich’s recent announcement that after himself, he chooses Obama. The balance of 3% represented members who chose to declare themselves as “still undecided” when the voting was taking place.
We discussed the possibility of endorsing Edwards, based on his clear victory, but decided by a virtually unanimous vote to continue our policy of not endorsing Democrats in a contested primary.
Good line from Richardson about Hillary going on the attack. "I've seen hostage negotiations more civil than this."
Joni Mitchel w/ Pat Metheny, Jaco Pastorius, Lyle Mays, Michael Brecker Live 1979 - They Kiss On Main Street http://mog.com/gilsmusic/blog_post/129998 (video)
Celtics up 3 on Detroit @ 5 minutes in the game
Good grief. Nothing is on here, nothing. And I think the repugs are first up in a few minutes.
ABC fu**ks it up again for the west coast...or maybe it's just OR.
Is Richardson siding with s/o who might have him on the short list?
What a travesty this country has become with this *debate* and nominating system.
Go, John. How's he doing? *&*# ABC.
It kinda sucks being on the west coast. Sheesh I can't sit through the Republican's first. I guess this Dem debate (whenever it comes on) will be my first of this election.
Come on, NH. Give the rest of us a chance. Don't annoint s/o so many of us don't like very much. Please give us a chance to vote!
Blacks and women got the vote. Now it's time for ALL STATES to get the vote. And live coverage.
I dunno. I'm kind of liking the DEM debate. It is good to watch them in one place. And they are a lot more civil than the Repubs. So far.
actually some good debating by Democrats seashell.
they are giving candidates to respond to what other candidates state.
Talking about Change and if one needs executive experience and you can guess who answers what.
Could you fill me in what you are watching?
-from the hinterlands of Vermont where there is no TV, Broadband or Cell phone service.............
less than 10 miles from an US capital
I also like watching between the debates with the Dems and Repub candidates greating each other.
Hillary kinda hung out with McCain. not many taking time with Ron Paul
They also had to change the audience from a Repub to Dem supporters
sunlight the debate is on abc regular channel. I sure would think Vermont carries abc
I wonder what % of voters vote for what's best for THEM instead of what's best for the country.
That's why I think the Constitution should have been, and still could be, the biggest issue..or Iraq...it affects all of us.
Well, here comes the repugs. I guess I'll read and blog for 2 hours or was it worth it to watch these regressive war mongers?
Could you fill me in what you are watching?
>
Celtics up by 5 over the Pistons with 8.5 seconds to go.
Sorry seashell. I don't think Edwards is knocking anybody's socks off in this debate.
OMG I didn't know his family were millworkers!!!! Well, that changes everyrthing.
I sure would think Vermont carries abc
I'm sure it does, Holly.
It's just that it doesn't reach me.~
Paine, there's no debate on that link...lotsa other stuff. But thank you anyway. :-)
oh dear sunlight. I didn't think there was anywhere in the US that didn't have the 4 major channels.
My kids used to complain when that is all we had because I refused to get cable up until 10 years ago and we broke down and got satellite
I can't find any streaming video of the debate. Let's just go ahead and bang-bang democracy and put it out of its misery.
Hillary is going on the attack again. And she is banging us over the head about her experience. Bam Bam Bam. Of course if experience is the issue, Richardson has it all over her.
Obama is doing a great job, in my opinion.
Ooh! All four are on the defensive. Fireworks!
sorry Paine the link doesn't work, It just keeps looping back to a picture of the debate not the live streaming
http://www.wmur.com/video/14986153/index.html
This link takes me to many possible vids but there's no debate. Perhaps it's my MAC.
I used to get ABC. From Mount Washington in New Hampshire.
But since there is a new law that requires all stations to go digital 'they' took down the transmitter on Mt. Washington because it wasn't 'economical' to upgrade the transmitter to digital.
Old timers, old equipments become obsolete.
Who cares if there are 'pockets' of poverty in the US ?
Or should I say inequality?
streaming
with a short delay.
I can't imagine how I can see it and someone else (sans dial-up) cain't.
I don't even get a picture of it, but I get a pull down subject menu. Is it listed, perhaps, under COMEDY? LOL
Well,
then go
http://www.wmur.com/index.html
and click on the Live Video: watch...
which is about a third of the way down the page.
Is there an JE supporter here who will blog how he's doing?
Paine, just post the URL w/o the blue linky thing.
I did a google search and can't find it.
All four are on the defensive. Fireworks!
>
And, rightly so. The moderator basically sank the Democrat Party with the question.
http://www.wmur.com/video/14986153/index...
It flips us to the link above which has no link that clcks to streaming.
It also says it has live polling which doesn't bring up anything
actually seashell, Edwards seems to be aligning with Obama and Richardson with Clinton when they talk about the change and experience thingy
Like Holly, I just get looped back over and over. :-(
oh hear it doesnt work on my Mac
This is what it said when I clicked the help link
What do I need to view the video?
To view Windows Media video, you are required to have Windows Media Player 9 or higher. You can download Windows Media Player 9 Series from the following Microsoft Windows Media Technologies Web site:
Download Windows Media Player
Macintosh users will need the latest version of Flip4Mac WMV. This free utility allows Mac users to watch Windows Media Video.
Clinton just cut in, not allowing Edwards to speak when it was Edwards' turn (um Hillary, that's rude)
Holly, what's the link to download Windows Media...? Thanks.
we broke down and got satellite
Ha, that's what 'they' tell me to get. So, that costs me $300 to set it up and $50 - $80 a month. Just for the internet access.
Major companies (e.g. staples) state in their service offers that satellite internet doesn't qualify as Broadband.
Satellite is not a viable alternative.
Less than 2 miles from me there is cable, dsl and wireless high speed internet access availabe.
Of course, since America works on 'profit' it's obvious that some parts of America are not America.
Live stream, west coasters (3 hrs. behind New Hampstuuh).
http://www.wmur.com/politics/index.html
here seashell. from Renee. A write about the debate before it is over. LOL
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080106/ap_p...
Scare tactic question said with urgency asked of the Governor - Richardson
Clinton didn't answer the question: "What would you take back that you said in any of the last debates?"
She simply talked around the question.
seashell click on help at this link
http://www.wmur.com/video/14986153/index...
but they are now on their last question. What do you wish you wouldn't have said on the past debates?
Hillary allowed her facial expressions, banging hand on table, andvocal inflection & intonation get the best of her.
Very defensive...on the one hand, bragging about what she's done over the past 35 yrs.; then to defend "change."
Didn't wash.
She's toast (and hopefully, the DLC, also).
Sorry to keep harping on this.
If I would live 8 miles south it would cost me $15 a month for Broadband. No setup costs.
wishful thinking mainefem
Actually it was the best debate so far. My husband at least didn't walk out of the room. LOL
sunlight. We were in the exact same position as you 10 years ago and my husband broke down and bought the satellite saying his parents who lived with us and house bound needed to see old movies. He really wanted the Cubs game.
We finally got the choice broadband 6 months ago. We live out in the boonies too but in IL which kind of grew up around us from all sides.
Crooks & Liars has it:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
Debate over, so "sit back...little girl blue."
pundit Steph. afterward thought it was Edwards best debate ever. HMMM I must have been watching something else
Clinton: Obama has changed positions
I think we are in trouble. Changing positions is a bad thing?
I change my position every time I'm presented with new facts.
What's not subject to change are my principles. In that regard I admit that Hillary didn't change.
She is sticking to her principles. Power. At all cost.
Barack needs to focus on his principles.
What are they?
Thanks, mainefem. I was just able to open it from Crooks and Liars, but only the repug debate which is also on my TV. I downloaded Windows Media thing but still it didn't work. I love my MAC, but oh how they are discriminated against. :-)
It's amazing that Thompson hasn't fallen asleep yet!
The dems should be coming up here in an hour and 10 minutes.
Meanwhile, I've got the repugs going at it.
And my brussel sprouts burned; I was steaming them and now the house has that freshly burned smell. And all becuz I wanted to see/hear the dems. LOL
Romney says that people should save up for health insurance.
Good grief, what compassion. Empty his bank account and see what he says then.
pundit Steph. afterward thought it was Edwards best debate ever. HMMM I must have been watching something else
>
The media and consultants made $300,000,000 in Iowa. Steph and all the others are media whores and snake oil salesmen. They'll be out of town by sunrise.
Pardon delayed triple blip.
Edwards did well, I thought.
[Presumptive] Billary (hopefully) won't be the 2nd "Comeback Kid" in the family come Tues. night.
Granite staters aren't easily bullshit.
Tough customers.
OK, thanks mainefem,I can now get the dem debate, but I think I'll wait till later. I'm brussel sprouted out!
What was the question that sank the dem party?
seashell, when I clicked on the quicktime link I got the Democratic debate. I wouldn't think it would be different for different time zone when it is on line
Romney says that people should save up for health insurance
>
He just doesn't get it...doesn't understand the economy. Heck, if a Mormon falls on tough times, the Church picks up the slack 'til the tithing can be reestablished.
Nice work if you can get it.
I thought the dem debate was over...so I clicked it off. OK, back I go.
I don't dare ask which browser you're using (or if it's updated), seashell?
The Dem. debate is @the top of C&L.
http://tinyurl.com/2m7abf
"Cain said to Romney, "you are the candidate of change."
hahaha, I got to share in that laugher with that old Able murderer.
Nope, there's no real time, just Hillary at the end of QT saying stuff about change. There doesn't seem to be any real time for MACS.
Is the debate still going?
Local ABC gets a chilling call from me on Monday.
well, after watching 4 hours of debate, I'm glad I watched but am thinking it's time to hit the hay
Obama/Edwards '08
goodnight everyone
NH voters have very high % participation in their Pres. primaries.
Edwards will do well to place second w/that type of turnout--really shake up Billary.
She's spending $$$$$ like a drunken sailor (expect her to flood the airwaves w/ad buys, based upon "proven experience"--tomorrow and Monday).
I think the debate from Crooks and Liars starts from the beginning. the live debate is over.
I wonder why ABC didn't show it in real time for the west coast. It is Sat. after all.
Hmmmmm
...Gibson asking about change, and it just ends with Clinton making a fool of herself.
Hmmmmm
>
I think that is your bias on display.
The C&L stream works for me, seashell (no real time limit on theirs).
http://tinyurl.com/2m7abf
ABC did show it in real time on the WMUR link,Holly J--but their stream froze up my machine, bigtime (WinDoze's buggy media player); and had to reboot.
Effin' Bill Gates.
Oh well, Holly. We can watch it in 50 minutes.
Thank you paine and mainefem, for trying to help us.
To the brussel sprouts!!
I watched what Crooks and liars had. It was just the first 10 minutes of the debate. I would assume that is what everyone got. I am on a mac too seashell
Holly, I think PC users got live streaming, or maybe it was just the first 10 minutes.
So...effing ABC
Just got back on. My MAC froze after watching WMUR stream the debate. Cripes.
I did get to see Hillary get a tad angry talking about change- which she uttered maybe 189 times. I felt badly for her because she looked really ticked. What cracked me up though was Edwards. When she was going off - he sat there just looking embarrassed for her. He's a pretty good guy. They all looked so tired except for the windbag *I was secty of Energy Richardson*.
So not only did ABC limit the number of candidates, it also aired the dem debate at the perfect time for people to either be out boogying or in bed or falling asleep.
Perhaps I'm paranoid, but this seems like another of thousands of ways to subvery democracy.
I liked watching the *reaction* to the questions by the audience. That was very interesting. Thanks for the link, Paine.
mary vb, how did you get streaming on your MAC? I have a fabulous newish MAC and all I could get was 10 minutes of the first question.
He just doesn't get it...doesn't understand the economy. Heck, if a Mormon falls on tough times, the Church picks up the slack 'til the tithing can be reestablished.
Nice work if you can get it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They pick it up *way* better in their imaginations than in reality, lol! The summer my dad was "out of work" (he'd cut his hand in two on a buzz saw), the church food truck delivered more cabbage than anyone should have to eat in an entire lifetime ~smile~
11:25 PM
seashell....
Edwards did very well. He wasn't alligning with Obama. He was showing that he was for change, BUT you can't negotiate with the corp., you can't "NICE' them to death, separating himself from Obama's approach. I thought he was passionate without looking angry. In fact he looked relaxed and in good humor.
My concern: how many voters see the Corp. as our core problem. All the rest of the stuff is just filler right now. I think people recognise Corp as being a problem, but many don't connect the dots to the gov't. and why things don't happen. Edwards get it big time.
JE and BO better find another word for change since the repugs have co-opted it. That's a strategy they used against Kerry often. "Agree with thine adversary" whenever possible on philosophical discussions. And tonight they are using the word "Constitution" frequently. Of course, they don't respect or uphold it, but it sounds good to Joe and Jane voter.
JE would be well advised to connect Corp to the occupation, health care etc...to almost everything.
"The war-profiteering corps, the health care corps, the oil corps, the Wall Street corps..........etc etc etc."
Quick, someone call his campaign. :-)
seashell - safari. I didn't have any issues for quite a bit UNTIL it froze.
That's the first Repug debate I've watched. Those guys are living on another area of the planet from me. I can't believe their views on the healthcare crisis. The Dem's all did OK -- best comment was that they all looked tired. I look tired too. Nitie all.
11:35 PM ET N Florida
How about, "We want to progress, not go backwards. The majority of voters in America are forward thinking." (insert stem cell, privacy rights, new jobs, right to die in peace, progress towards peace in the MEetc etc)................
"We're the party of PROGRESS."
R&R
http://eatapyzch.blogspot.com/
11:41 PM
seashell - Jackson - football. sorry - we're sports nuts here.
------
Here's a video of Indies reactions to the Dems debate. Not good for Hillary at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apv5KWHgX...
I thought Edwards did the best but I'm still rooting for Obama to win NH
Bill Moyers talks with Ron Paul
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/010420...
So what was the question that sank the Dem party?
I watched enough to see Hillary get her but kicked and went back to bed.
A good night for Democracy.
119. seashell - yes progress. If I hear any of these bloody candidates say *change* again...
Watch the video. These Indies had a visceral reaction to Hillary (save for three).
Hey seashell. Sorry, I'm on delay and I have decided to watch it tonight.
John Edwards has done ...still going on....has been doing GREAT. He definitely is the winner. Passion, ideas, experience. They even shot on the audience and the kids looked very intent listening to him.
Hillary came in second. She gave very complete answers with the "whys". She almost lost it in the begining, but well recovered and showed the "change" that she can bring (sorry)
And if THUMPER is allowed in any more debates, they better strap his hands to his sides.
Bill Moyers talks with Ron Paul
excerpt:
.........
BILL MOYERS: Has our two party system run it's course?
RON PAUL: Well, it's meaningless. And I think you know, we send boys over there to promote democracy in Iraq.
But we don't really have democracy here because, you know, if you're in a third party-- if you're in the Green Party, or Libertarian Party, you don't get any credibility. You can't get on debates. You can't get on the ballots hardly at all. And it's very, very difficult. And the two parties are the same. You don't really have a democratic choice here. So yes, I think we have a long way to go to set good standards here.
This is my whole argument. I think there's a lot of goodness in America. And we should spread our goodness. But never through force. We should be talking about what we can do here at home to set a good example, have a healthy, vibrant economy. Protect civil liberty. And have a foreign policy where we're minding our own business. But have trade with people, and talk with people. Why is it we don't even talk and trade with Cuba? Everyone else is. I mean, why don't we do it? And this is what we have to do.
BILL MOYERS: But are you ever going to get ideas like that through a media that is dominated by the very corporate mentality that you so often deplore?
RON PAUL: With difficulty. But once again the message is getting out. It hasn't turned into, you know, a total revolution. But there are revolutionary ideas going on there right now. And it's not a throwback to the old ways, because the old ways are always tyranny. We've had tyranny most of all of history. It's only been in this recent introduction, last couple of hundred years, where true freedom emphasizing the individual has only been tested. And we're throwing it away. So, whether I have an obstacle with the media or not, which I'm sure I do. And I face up to it, since I look like I'll be excluded, you know, from the Fox debate here-- this weekend. But nevertheless, the amount of things we left in this country, we still have it, and we have to maximize it's use.
BILL MOYERS: Thank you for being with us Congressman Paul.
RON PAUL: Thank you very much.
OK, now over. John Edwards was the winner, Hillary came in 2nd.
11:56PM
maryvb
that was me cheering the game
Obama saying he was clicking back and forth to the game was where I remembered there was a debate on ABC lol
you all got to see exactly what Iowans saw
take it from here and make your own decision, this could go all the way to the convention
133. Gee, I dunno Phil. If Iowans saw what we saw tonight, in my opinion it would have been:
1st Edwards
2nd Clinton
3rd Obama
....still 4th Richardson :)
...on 2nd thought...I might hang out....my husband has actually PAUSED (too long) on Electric Horseman with Redford and Fonda. Oh, no, can't allow this.
ciao!
not everyone has figured out yet that Washington doesn't get anything done on the peoples agenda because the puppeteers haven't written that script for the puppets yet
Frank Rich's latest:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/opinio...
Edwards and I agree on the agenda, that's why I support him, he sees a better america ahead after we dismantle the obstacle in the road.
he is the real deal, they will come gunning for him
good think I'm an habitual channel changer or I would have missed the debate because i'm a sports fan first and a political junkie second most of the time
142. Yes, Phil, Edwards did get his point across. He also got a good plug in for Costco. That cracked me up.
Clinton is starting to sound shrill
I only watched about 2 minutes and noticed as much. She seemed angry and put upon that she hasn't already been coronated and must still remind voters of all that she has done for them over the years and be challenged by clearly lesser entities.
he is the real deal, they will come gunning for him
The 2004 DLC version of Edwards was the real deal. What he is now is a polling based reinvention.
Gee, I dunno Phil. If Iowans saw what we saw tonight, in my opinion it would have been:
1st Edwards
2nd Clinton
3rd Obama
....still 4th Richardson :)
What Iowans apparently saw was right through Edwards again, just as they did in 2004.
If the focus group they interviewed is any indication - Hillary is in trouble. This was the first debate I got suckered into so I don't have anything to compare to. As far as all the headlines that read *Obama and Clinton spar* - well, that's a joke - she did all the sparring. John Edwards got some good licks in. They all looked very tired - and so am I. Good night all.
I change my position every time I'm presented with new facts.
It depends on the fact. When the fact is that public opinion has shifted from a politician's position and he then changes with it, that is not a comendable thing -- and it's sure to be grasped upon front and center by the GOP.
Democrats don't need a, "I was for it before I was against it, " nominee.
Sitka wrote:
Changing positions is a bad thing?
I change my position every time I'm presented with new facts.
It depends on the fact. When the fact is that public opinion has shifted from a politician's position and he then changes with it,
______________________
That's good, then you understand John not supporting the war now.
...and, as you point out, the change, if the public changes, only with what she pointed out on Obama, they didn't. They want Single payer, at worst Universal and on the Patriot Act, they DEFINITELY did not change their position, even after we saw what they were doing, but he still voted for PA2.....so.....
1. Edwards
2. Obama/Hillary
5. "Thumper" altho I love his passion for stopping the killing.
JE says he has a personal stake in this and I'm convinced about his sincerity.
I agree with Linda SF...If IA saw these same candidates, it's very odd that Obama won so big.
Hillary's manners are terrible, interrupting and demanding time. Neither she nor BO copped to previous debate gaffes. And she played the female sex card and in a subtle way, BO played the black card - CHANGE from man to woman, white to black. Not good to do that IMO.
2:43 am
my take - Obama and Edwards held their own in the debate and supported each other quite well - it's quite obvious that JE has decided that Hillary is the one he needs to beat in NH. Hillary and Richardson kissed up to the dlc and special interests - Hillary started to sound reasonable on foreign affairs and then just didn't know when to shut up. they both sound like they think they 'deserve' to be the top dog...
sea - when did Obama play the black card?
That's good, then you understand John not supporting the war now.
I understand Edwards changed with the wind. He was Kerry's perfect running mate, but that's it.
As for Obama, I'll let his minions defend him if they want.
JE says he has a personal stake in this and I'm convinced about his sincerity.
Personal stake? Only if he's spending his own money.
it's very odd that Obama won so big.
He didn't vote for the most odius aspects of Bush's agenda as Hillary and Edwards did. A plurality of Iowa Democrats believed in accountability -- this time around at least. I expect the same in future primaries.
new thread
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By donna in evanston on Jan 5, 2008 9:31 PM ESTDean is first.
Hillary ain't. She's very annoying.