Cheers for Howard tonight and his commentaries.  He's still first.

Now it's time to send Edwards some cash.

Well done, Barak Obama and I'm glad to see that Edwards at least made second.  I agree with Rich K's analysis on the previous thread.

rdorgan, do we need to peel you off the ceiling?:))

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm saddened but not surprised that the fundie won the Republican vote, {{sigh}}

Someone mentioned that Gov. Dean looked badly.....probably just tired.  Hopefully, he can catch up on some rest.

Go Dems.....on to the White House:)! 

I remembered this post called Hope of the Web from 2006.   It was a review of Crashing the Gate.   There were some interesting parts about Howard's influence.  He sure looked tired tonight,  I hear.  We did not watch the returns, just watched a movie.   I guess he must be tired after 3 years on this job.   But he deserves much credit.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/60

"The birth of the new movement led by Daily Kos came in 2003 with the unexpected emergence of Howard Dean as a presidential candidate. Since that campaign provided both the technological and spiritual inspiration of much that came later, it's important to reconsider what Dean's venture was (and was not) about. It rose in the shadows of the Bush ascendancy in the years following September 11, when very few people—certainly not presidential candidates with an eye to getting elected—were willing to challenge the White House directly. In that situation, Howard Dean's forthrightness, especially his willingness to strongly oppose the war in Iraq, united many people worried that Bush had succeeded in stifling dissent.

"But it's also important to realize that Dean wasn't particularly liberal. In his years as governor of Vermont he'd earned a reputation as a moderate in social and fiscal policy, addressing health care for children, for instance, but frustrating local activists by refusing to take up a more comprehensive medical plan. Bernie Sanders, the former mayor of Burlington who is now the only independent member of the House of Representatives, is a Vermont liberal. Dean is not. What mattered in Dean's case was his open manner and his willingness to risk making clear statements about Iraq. In their book, Armstrong and Moulitsas—who are widely known on the Internet by their shorthand names Jerome and Kos—retell the story of the campaign's early days, especially Dean's speech to the California Democratic Party in March 2003. He followed the well-known candidates, who trimmed and tacked:"

(More at the link)

Lest we forget the even bigger issues.

A Grassy Knoll in Pakistan

By: Peter ChamberlinAll things have come full circle in the mountains of Pakistan.  The “great game” has been played-out.  The cycle of death which we unleashed upon the world there, bringing the  war on terrorism home to us, now draws us inexorably into the vacuum of its violent ending.  The convulsions now wracking that country threaten to become a revolutionary explosion capable of bringing down the foundations of the world.

The rapidly building democratic-revolution is now entering the “critical mass” stage.   Its expansion is accelerating beyond human control.  The assassination of Benazir Bhutto was a calculated risk, intended to derail democracy in Pakistan because Islamic extremists were making the democratic transition from militias into political parties.  For this reason, it is unlikely that she was assassinated by real Islamists, true Taliban.  It is more likely that the hit on Bhutto was connected to the Administration’s getting the “green light” (the day before the attack), to move large numbers of Special Forces “trainers” into the tribal regions. 

Even though Bhutto was allegedly stirring the cauldron, “...demanding after returning to Pakistan that the ISI be restructured; and in a press conference during her house arrest in Lahore in November she went as far as asking Pakistan army officers to revolt against the army chief,”  http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7709   recent revelations by various neocon-men points to a covert US plan to eliminate her. 

"A large number of ISI agents who are responsible for helping the Taliban and al-Qaeda should be thrown in jail or killed. What I think we should do in Pakistan is a parallel version of what Iran has run against us in Iraq: giving money [and] empowering actors. Some of this will involve working with some shady characters, but the alternative - sending US forces into Pakistan for a sustained bombing campaign - is worse," Steve Schippert was quoted as saying a November 2007 issue of Weekly Standard.  (1.   Steve Schippert  |  November 28, 2007 at 12:39 am “For what it’s worth, the author attributed a comment to me that I did not make in the Weekly Standard article. While I ascribe fully to what the unnamed intelligence source who actually said it did in fact say, they are not my words.”)  click here

Musharref seems to be laboring under the illusion that the United States government supports his efforts to contain the building political explosion, when, in fact, the explosion of Pakistan is what the neocon traitors have been waiting for.  With big “events” come big opportunities.  Bush does not intend to do anything to help him stave off the inevitable.  Their aim, all along, has been to plan for the day after the catastrophic event, for the day when their real plans could be fully implemented.  The Pakistani leader let their ceaseless warnings about the day after move him into cooperating with them, in allowing the new expansion of the war into Pakistan.   The actual neocon objective, according to Professor Michel Chossudovsky, is: 

“...fomenting social, ethnic and factional divisions and political fragmentation, including the territorial breakup of Pakistan. This course of action is also dictated by US war plans in relation to both Afghanistan and Iran.                                  

This US agenda for Pakistan is similar to that applied throughout the broader Middle East Central Asian region. US strategy, supported by covert intelligence operations, consists in triggering ethnic and religious strife, abetting and financing secessionist movements while also weakening the institutions of the central government.                                                                                                          

The broader objective is to fracture the Nation State and redraw the borders of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan and Pakistan.”   http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7705 

In their book, Armstrong and Moulitsas—who are widely known on the Internet by their shorthand names Jerome and Kos

Neither is on my list of reliable pundits (come to think of it, no pundit is on that list). 

A/P December 9, 2007

On Friday: Democrats  made loud calls for the new Justice Department chief, Attorney General Michael Mukasey, to look into whether the CIA violated any laws by tossing the tapes, which reportedly featured interrogators using harsh methods.

(Bush told them NO investigtion!)

On Saturday: WASHINGTON —  The Department of Justice  (Michael Mukasey) and CIA announced  the launch of a joint preliminary inquiry into the destruction of CIA tapes

In response to Saturday's announcement, Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., issued a statement saying: “This is the kind of quick response the nation expects and deserves from an Attorney General who puts the rule of law first. It is a refreshing change

The House Intelligence Committee is launching its own inquiry next week

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., issued a statement saying: “This is the kind of quick response the nation expects and deserves from an Attorney General who puts the rule of law first. It is a refreshing change

Schumer's butt was really in the fire there for a while since he put Mukasey in the job. But instead of praising Mukasey he should be warning that a stonewalling coverup will not be tolerated. 

Obama said tonight that he would implement tax cuts for the middle class.  I think this is unwise.  I think we should rescind the cuts for the wealthy and greatly reduce our defense budget.  He didn't mention these things at all. 

We need tax increases for god's sake.  Our country is falling apart.

He's disingenuous.  I would be happy to pay more taxes. 

He's disingenuous.  I would be happy to pay more taxes.

I don't know if he has, but I expect Kucinich is the only one forthright enough to call for tax increases. 

Dang, forgot to say it:

Tonight....OBAMA IS FIRST:)!!!! 

 some Iowa Entry Polling data:

Composition of Democratic caucus-goers:

• 57% first time caucus goers
• 40% age 17-44 (was 32% in 2004)
• 25% Independent/Republican/Other (was 20% in 2004)

-- Mark Blumenthal

Tonight....OBAMA IS FIRST:)!!!!

Got to give him kudos for thoroughly whipping the Clinton/Vilesuck machine. 

No matter how we all feel about tonight, it's historical in that it's the first time that America is taking a black candidate seriously. And that is huge. At least for tonight.

And I agree, we need a national primary day.

Night all

The "Small-time hope peddler from Chicago" sounded great tonight. He is a gifted speaker, a super organizer, and he has at least a clue about the power and the potential of a dedicated, motivated,and activated citizenry.

3907

It's just too bad that the first first serious female contender had to be a Republican calling herself a Democrat.

But Democrats are still making history with Obama.

It's funny how my 6 year old daughter has been a huge Hillary fan (I've said nothing to her about it one way or another) but after she learned Obama had won she switched sides and went around chanting, "O-Ba-Ma!" for half an hour. Talk about jumping on the bandwagon!

I've told her she can mark and cast my primary ballot for whomever she wants, so she's pretty excited about that too.

I just listened, for the first time, to the interview with Huckabee.  Lordy, he sounds very democratic, disarming, affable and looks like Nixon.   He's cozy and intimate and talks about health care, infrastructure, etc.

He could be a formaidable candidate if his zealotry is kept under wraps - and he's clever enuf to do that, I think.   This is a very dangerous man IMO, and very convincing that he's just like you and me.

We shall see.

While the world fiddles, genocide in Gaza is underwayGaza: Israel’s fuel and power cuts violate laws of war

Reagan and the Bushes proved proved just how formidable even the absolute worst can be.

Good morning, BFA!

Congratulations to the Obama supporters. It looks like the first contest falls into his column. But there are 49 to go. Glad to see that Edwards came in second at least. I am not sure whether I agree with the analysis that Hillary's done. She had high negatives going into Iowa and had been advised not even to campaign there. She went in anyway. She has courage; I'll give her that.

REALLY sorry but unsurprised to see that Dodd has dropped out, but he is a realist and that is one thing that drew me to his candidacy. Kucinich is not, and that is one reason why, even though I love his rhetoric, I would only have backed him if he were the Dem nominee, which looks to be pie in the sky. He's the one who should have the fork stuck in him, IMO, but he stays in nonetheless.

sea: you asked who *the Europeans* back ... first of all, there is no such monolith as *the Europeans* ... if you want politics in all stripes and flavors, you'll certainly find them here. Most that I know are bemused that our election process takes such a long time and costs so much, but then is most flawed where it counts: at the final voting stage. No one understands how there is no central voting authority and that there are at least 50 different state voting standards (sometimes things can even vary from county to county). Then there are those who still wonder how it was that when we delegate the voting standards to the States, the Supremes can still come in and wipe out a state supreme court decision that dealt with the management of elections within that state, as happened in 2000. And most especially cannot understand why we don't just use paper ballots.

The credibility of US *democracy* really took a hit with the election of 2000 and all the skulduggery that we have learned about since. Why do we think that political strong men like the leaders of Pakistan and Kenya (both US *friends) think that they can do anything and get away with it? In part, because we set the standard (so to speak) for outrageous political behavior.

I personally believe that many will be enchanted with the idea of Obama being a real contender because most had resigned themself to Hillary (not with trepidation; the Clintons are generally much admired abroad). However, they still don't *know* Obama, and they also do not *know* Edwards, even though he ran as a Veep candidate in 2004.

Unlike us with them, however, the ones I know are pretty much happy to let the chips fall where they may ... so long as it's ABB or any of the nutcase Republics that currently make up the Republic options.

Now off ... I am working today and it's actually past THAT time.

Enjoy the aftermath, everyone. I think that Howard was proud of Iowans.

Thanks, Judy.

Phil, thank you for all your hard work.  I sent some money to Edwards tonight to hopefully keep him in the race.  Plus he's now my first choice; but I don't like being force fed/left outta the loop.

We shall see. 

Has anyone heard who's on the short list for Obama or Edwards?  Could Obama choose Howard?  Would he?  Maybe Dodd, and what a good choice that would be.

Dodd deserves a cabinet post at the very least.  Dean too.  And Gore could be head of the EPA, altho maybe that's too limiting for him.  Maybe he could be crown prince!  LOL

I get excited thinking about the good dems we have.   

McCain /Huckabee will be be tough to defeat.

Republicans here had record turnout also; so the ones that caucused with Democrats probably are looking for a new home.

in my tiny sample more new voters and independents went for Obama, and Republicans to Hillary, but had more to do with the local Hillary captain and her organizational skills among friends, but when the physical division was made, just like the polls suggested, more women,older

I asked for a show of hands of people who had ever been elected a delegate before, and got a single digit response.

Iowa still has the problem that two out of three aren't with the winner (yet).

If you have three first class organizations, and strong candidates who campaign hard, and others equally qualified but without the organization, a team beats an individual everytime, and maybe it is because the candidates are used to thinking in terms of "we".

the scariest thing of the night for me was coming home to Mike Huckabee giving the closest to what I consider a winning speech to be (I need a transcript but he articulated that broader vision)

the good news is that  a campaign flush with money that went negative bombed (in Romney) and that should keep it all more positive for awhile

the other good news is that we no longer have a "presumptive nominee" and progressive messages do have resonance

6 degrees Fahrenheit how here in Boston area

(was 2 degress at lowest point last night) 

24.

...

the good news is that  a campaign flush with money that went negative bombed (in Romney) and that should keep it all more positive for awhile

...

+++

Phil -

Indeed, Romney gets a chamce to redeem him himself.

His negative ad campaigning of late reminded me of the negative ads his protegee, the then Lt Governor Kerry Healey employed against the then dem challenger Deval Patrick, which were almost shades of Willy Horton in character.

The MA voters on election day voted for Deval for Governor and some exit pollers said they voted against negative campaigning by the repub Healey.  Most voted FOR somone -- Deval.  Many were new to voting for the first time (and many of those for the first time in a long time).

Iowans have impressed me greatly with this election cycle -- turning out in huge numbers(especially the dems) and voting FOR rather than AGAINST someone.

BTW - Have you and your son been able to catch your breath yet ?

Obama/Edwards '08 (IMO that's the winning dem ticket that could beat McCain/Huckabee)

typo - chamce  s/b - chance

2. cChalfonte -

Thanks for the nice comment.

(and please everyone excuse my spelling mistakes today if they are more than normal -- it's hard for me to contain my excitement [smile])

good morning, everybody

It was a good choice to go to bed early at my usual time.

There was a message in my mail box from Chris Dodd. 

I'm glad that I'm no longer personally invested in a candidate.

More time for our Senate race.  

I still think an Obama/Dodd ticket would be unbeatable and leave Dodd in the Senate. 

28.

Agreed, Obama/Dodd would make for a great ticket too.

Do you think that McCain will trump Romney in New Hampshire next Tuesday ?

the caucus is the start of my main effort which is the platform

I'm not sure I am articulating correctly what it is that attracts a movement and makes it a successsful one, but it is about making it about two things, the future and the voters.

the three highly qualified candidates that didn't gain traction were more into what they stood for, and I kind of think democracy is partly about what the voters aspire to, and about what how that resonantes with a message because it isn't about the messenger alone

put together the best of the remaining three and you would have an unbeatable and very core Democratic message

change yes but change that lifts, that inspires, that achieves

I get to enjoy the company of my son for a few more days before he heads back to school, haven't seen much of him as he was working tirelessly for Obama, but it was worth it to see the grin on his face last night.

next the circus comes to a town near you

the Ringling Bros. grew up a block from our caucus site, and my job running the show last night sure was easier with an enthusiastic crowd

Monica

You chose a man that has everything that it takes to be a good President, what was lacking was how you translate that into a campaign rather than a candidate. good effort, I know the Dodds appreciated it, and even enjoyed their time in the race, after they get over the disappointment 

31.

Good to hear you have some quality time with your son before he heads back to college (those young 'uns, they did it !)

Well, to me, Hillary has four days to apologize for her 2003 vote to authorize Bush to go to war in Iraq -- that's her only really HOPE of being some kind of CHANGE agent and, especially, of redeeming herself.

Short of that -- IMO she will also lose New Hampshire.

typo - that's her only really HOPE

s/b - that's her only real HOPE

Something interesting to watch in NH: Ron Paul got 10% in Iowa, beating Giuliani by more than 2 to 1. Ron Paul is well liked in NH, where there are lots of libertarians.

If Paul finishes ahead of Romney or even comes close, Romney is probably done.

Both McCain and Paul have nothing to lose by having hordes of people with flip-flops at Romney rallies.

After 2004, the flip-flop might actually be perceived as the official shoe of Massachusetts. ;-)

As for Hilly, I think what dawned on people in Iowa was summed up by a young woman who was nominally a Hillary supporter but was reassessing: "We had a Bush and a Clinton and another Bush and now another Clinton? I don't know, maybe we need someone different."

Barack Obama is that candidate, even though I resist the notion we are electing a black candidate when someone like Charlie Rangel still wouldn't stand a chance. We are electing a mixed race canddate but that's a good start.

Obama's the only Dem who could beat a McCain-Huckabee ticket, IMO.

-- volney

35.

volney -

good assessment.

http://img.getactivehub.com/act2/custom_images/ppvotes/flip-flop-01.jpg

Now that Iowa and the rest of the nation has gotten to see the real Mitt Romney (he was too scared to try to run for re-election in MA after only one term serving [even moderate repubs in MA have been turned off to him], so he set his sights on the big kahuna -- the Presidency), what do you all think of him ?

A couple of short comments.

I think Iowa voted for the appearance of change over real change last night, but so be it.

With Edwards I think we get real change.  With Obama, there's a chance of real change (if he turns out to be a different President than he is a Senator, which happens).  With Hillary, business as usual.

Edwards challenge (and I know I said he was done last night) is keeping people like me saying he's done, when it was hard to get the MSM to treat him as top tier even when he was leading in Iowa polls!

Hill's not done, but if she loses NH (which could happen) then it's a deep hole to climb out of.

Obama's win in Iowa could hurt McCain in NH (you heard that right).  Both are counting at turning out the Indies, and right now Obama has more pizzazz, and is more likely to do so.  But remember this: McCain won every demographic category, including conservatives, in NH in 2000, so the idea that he can't win with just Republicans is not true, at least in New Hampshire.

To everyone else on the Democratic side -- thanks for running.  You got caught up in a unique election which only had room for one "white guy".  Keep raising the issues to keep those still in honest.  Don't go endorsing anyone too quickly. 

38.

rich -

Obama is half-white, so I don't exactly get your point about --

 To everyone else on the Democratic side -- thanks for running.  You got caught up in a unique election which only had room for one "white guy".   ?

OK........as I wanst feeling well last night...I refused to watch the Iowa carcasses, and only got thru the first half hour of Forest Gump................so................who won last night?

rich^kolker
Fri, 01/04/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sounds like Obama won last nite...............I agree with you Rich, but again the random element is we are dealing with the American voter, who will vote purely on image and not substance alot of the time..thats why we get stuck with Ronald Reagans and George Bush'.............now IF Obama gets the nomination and wins this may not be the case, but I think Obama to me so far is telling the people what they want to hear, and they are so easily misled..................

* rdorgan
Fri, 01/04/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

First off, congratulations on Obamas win............as for Romney, he didnt fool me from day one....to me he appeared to be a nice,,clean cut liar.............his sons not going to fight in Bush' war was another example how many of these people think................of course, the thought of Huckleberry coming close to the WH is chilling................what a scary place we live in.

42.

Mike -

Thanks.

IMO an Obama/Edwards ticket in '08 would remind me of the real vice president in JFK's term - RFK.  RFK provided his attorney general muscle, in tandem with his brother's arching/unifying ability to bring a nation together.

I miss those two brothers greatly.

rdorgan,

You know what I meant.  Tiger Woods is also multiracial, but to most Americans he's black.

A certain number of folks go to Hillary because she's a woman.  A certain number of people go to Obama because he's (okay half) African American.  That narrowed the available cache of votes for everyone else (even Richardson, who's Hispanic, but that didn't seem "cool enough" I guess).  Edwards had been in Iowa since 2004, so he got almost all of them, which just kept him even with Obama and Hillary.

Where the Obama campaign really surprised me was organization.  They turned their people out in a way that if Dean had done it four years ago, he'd be President now.  I think Obama took a lot of lessons from the Dean campaign (on how NOT to turn out the youth vote) and it paid off for them.  There's no question his margin was new caucus goers.  That is unique in history. 

Oh,

And I think regularly about how different this country would be today if Sirhan had missed. 

Something was going on tonight between Obama and Michelle.  She wasn't standing with him and he looked pained.  Something is going on......

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I dunno seashell..........I was asleep in bed as I wasnt feeling well.............I just watched a bit of the speech on line..........well, at least her demeanour was betetr this time and she smiled a bit..........of course, the taste of victory is always sweet...................

personally, from what I have gathered from a few statements of hers, she reminds me of laura Bush in early 2000...............not really appearing interested in the job of First lady...........thats my take right now anyways..........

rdorgan,

You know what I meant.  Tiger Woods is also multiracial, but to most Americans he's black.

A certain number of folks go to Hillary because she's a woman.  A certain number of people go to Obama because he's (okay half) African American. 

...

+++

rich -

fair enough.

All I know is the people I know supporting Obama are like me -- doing it FOR him regardless of what his skin color is. 

Yes organization won last night and I so wish that Howard Dean had had that type of organization four years ago -- then we wouldn't have had to suffer through another four years of the worst American president in history.

45. 

and yes, I wish Sirhan had missed, as well as wish Oswald and Ray had missed too.

46.

Mike -

So, I see you've answered my question "his wife" - just who are you refrring to ?

Michelle smiles quite a lot:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0geu.moOn5HMW0BuSZXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&p=%22michelle%20obama%22&n=10&va_vt=any&vo_vt=any&ve_vt=any&vp_vt=any&vf=all&vm=p&fr2=tab-web&fr=

etc. etc.

typo - his wife" - just who are you refrring to ?

s/b - his wife" - just who are you referring to ?

(sorry about the spelling typos this morning, I'm lucky I can even type, I'm so excited)

I really really wish everyone would stop talking about Obama's skin color - it has no relevance.

As far as Michelle is concerned she is wonderful.  A couple of days ago on CSPAN they showed her speech and talking with residents at a Rest Home.  She was amazing.  She is not cold like some say, she took time with every resident, and was really listening to what they were saying.  The people loved her.

On CSPAN this morning a caller asked America to please give Obama the chance to fulfill Bobby Kennedy's dream.

I think the case can be made that economic populism won on both sides. Obama may be the change agent, but he made his economic populist message a larger part of his spiel. This allowed him to co-opt Edwards’ message. Huckabee was more pragmatic as Governor then he is given credit for. He is a socially conservative on religious issues but is more moderate in his views of the arts. He is a conservative to moderate economic candidate. McCain could very win NH, which puts the Repubs in a very difficult spot. The conservatives will have trouble-supporting McCain as progressives have trouble-supporting Hillary. Edwards support for the war and McCain’s love for the war will tend to neutralize each other.
The only way I see a Dem winning the election is with Obama as the candidate. I see Edwards loosing to Huckabee but beating McCain because Edwards has acknowledged his Iraq War vote was a mistake and does have a strong populist message. He looses because of the right-wing support to Huckabee. I see Hillary losing to both Huckabee and McCain as her triangulation; centralist position is not as strong as the position held by the two Repubs.
The key to the Dems is the progressives must offset the conservatives in both body counts and financial support.
I remember 2000 very well after Bush won the Repub nomination. I was part of the McCain movement and moved back to the Dems. I knew the strength of the Repub Party then as we know the strength of the Repub Party now. We all laughed at Bush and because of the Nine Supremes, we didn’t laugh very long. The laughter quickly turned to sorrow.
The most important thing to do now is support Howard in the 50 state campaigns. We could very well lose the WH but it is imperative we get 60 Dem Senators (61 if we count Liebermann). The DcDems have to be shoved aside and this can only happen if Hillary is not the candidate. We must make Repubs defend their turf everywhere and be forced to defend their actions. If Repubs are not challenged everywhere, then they can simply keep their divisive, fear-mongering nonsense rolling.
Go get’em Howard.

50.

rae hart -

Well stated about Michelle (who's warm personality and listening skills is what helped seal the deal for her husband with a lot of Iowan voters -- that's why in the selling business, she can be called The Closer).

and you're right, this election is about CHANGE and who really has the ability to bring that about in America -- I think the dem caucus goers last night have decided correctly

* rdorgan
Fri, 01/04/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, I really mean this when I say this..but thanks for this post. The only time or times I have seen her she appeared mean, frustrated and almost jealous of her husband..perhaps these campaign do this to people........plus the fact that word leaked out that if Obama lost this one it was a one and done deal, which makes me doubt both of their loyalty to the cause............

Again, the random element in all of this is the American voter.....and many, sadly will be disecting not the important issues and facts, but appearances and vanity.......which i am against......but thats politics, if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen.............

I wonder how a black candidate with a message of inclusion for all will play in the South? Since 1968, black leaders have been working overtime to get black voters to the polls. My ancillary evidence indicates it wasn’t very successful because blacks were never welcomed into the big tent as equal partners. The talk was great but black issues were often ignored; even by Bubba; the supposed best black candidate. I wonder if the black population will demand more involvement into the process. Dems do pretty well in the cities partly because of minority support. Dems lose in rural areas, as they become the bastion for white conservatives. I wonder if Obama changes this in the black, rural south.

13.

Denise
Fri, 01/04/08


...it's historical in that it's the first time that America is taking a black candidate seriously. And that is huge. At least for tonight.
---------------

I agree, it well might be "historical" as well as "huge"...and yes, it was "yesterday's" night.

Today and tomorrow we may want to see candidate's skin color much less important than, say, his/her unambiguous denunciation of a war as the tool in foreign affairs.

54.

as rae hart says, it's not about skin color, it's about the message and the man with that message

those that support Obama get what it is that separates a Obama from a Sharpton --

-- it's about inclusion, about We are all in this together

-- it's about what Howard was so eloquently saying four years ago We have the power

on to New Hampshire !

I really really wish everyone would stop talking about Obama's skin color - it has no relevance.

 You may like to believe that, and I'd love to live in a country where it's true, but it's not.  His skin color brings with it advantages and disadvantages in this race.  You have to ask, absent his skin color, would a first term Senator be considered a serious candidate for President?  Maybe, but to ignore the appearances is to ignore one important aspect of his appeal, and one of his challenges in a general election.  The same is true for Hillary.

I just don't see him as a change agent based on his activities and votes in the Senate.  As I said above, that might change when he becomes President, it's a different job, and it's happened before, but I'm not counting on it, which is why I support Edwards.

17.

seashell :-)
Fri, 01/04/08

I just listened, for the first time, to the interview with Huckabee. Lordy, he sounds very democratic, disarming, affable...
----------

...lol, see it's useful sometimes to listen people DIRECTLY rather than to listen what have been said ABOUT them.

Have you listened already Doctor Ron Paul?

"Something was going on tonight between Obama and Michelle.  She wasn't standing with him and he looked pained.  Something is going on......"

Perhaps his feet hurt from standing for so many hours. 

Perhaps he had a stomach ache.....

Perhaps he was worried/thinking about his children.

Perhaps he was having a moment....what would his family's life would be like if he actually wins the presidency.

Perhaps the camera just caught him before a yawn...

Perhaps his wife was tending the children or shaking hands herself. 

The possibilities are endless on such thin evidence evidence. 

You can't draw leaping conclusions and throw out baseless innuendoes, not to mention baseless conspiracy theory after baseless conspiracy, yet call upon the Iowa voters to use sound judgment and at times accuse them of ignorance.  Can't have it both ways.  

BTW - here in Southeastern MA I saw my first political bumper sticker on another vehicle (I don't feel so alone now, I've been sporting my Obama sticker for sometime now) yesterday afternoon on my drive home from work --

-- I could see it from many cars back, the distinctive blue O (shaped like a sun or rainbow over a arching field of red and blue striped land -- for example):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13849388@N03/1411142437/

and again....

CONGRATULATIONS BARACK OBAMA!!!!!!!

WHAT A ROUSING SPEECH THAT WAS, MAN! 

53

You are totally wrong.  If you want to attack a candidate on her or his issues, do so, but stop attacking their family members.  I have seen Michelle Obama lots and lots of times, never once has she been mean.  Why would she be jealous of her husband?  And frustrated?  She is intelligent and doesn't pander, it is refreshing.  If I remember correctly Gov Dean's wife was attacked too, simply because she didn't fit into the mold of what a candidates wife is supposedly like.  As far as that secret you mentioned, it is no secret, and what is wrong with not wanting to run again, she is thinking of her family, it does have an effect on children you know.  I don't blame her one bit, who wants to be attacked by people who call her mean, jealous and frustrated.

Your Clinton quote if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen, does not impress me, nor does it look like it impressed anyone else, since she came in third.

Oh I see maybe you are a Clinton supporter, I don't know, and you are jealous of Michelle.

57.

rich^kolker
Fri, 01/04/08


I really really wish everyone would stop talking about Obama's skin color - it has no relevance.
------
You may like to believe that, and I'd love to live in a country where it's true, but it's not....

I just don't see him as a change agent based on his activities and votes in the Senate. As I said above, that might change when he becomes President, it's a different job, and it's happened before, but I'm not counting on it...
********

!!!
I remember quite many (even Dean including) were recalling Bush while he was "leading" Texas as completely different person.

The magic secret of "representation"..., lol.

race had nothing to do with the Iowa results

might play out slightly differently in South Carolina

Clinton probably had the best turn out organization just didn't have as many supporters. Clinton "won" the debates, had the name recognition, and the best organization money can buy

they have to do some soul searching this morning

Edwards has to take great satisfaction from carrying the traditional Democrats and validating that his message sold within the party regulars.

He needs to tune it to a wider appeal to compete with Obama down the road. not just the "underdog" because that is where race might matter and I do think in states where there is a high minority vote Obama might gain a head of steam.

California is a very important state for all three

Now I remember what struck me about the elderly lady Michelle was talking with, she asked Michelle if it was legal for her to be Obama's VP.  She was a darlling lady.

rich wrote of Obama "I just don't see him as a change agent based on his activities and votes in the Senate. As I said above, that might change when he becomes President, it's a different job, and it's happened before, but I'm not counting on it..."

Maybe.  You see Edwards as a change agent despite his activities and votes in the Senate.

60.

cChalfonte -

Thanks for the keeping both your feet on the ground response to the looking in every corner for a flaw few .

ok, I'm off for now (I'm making too many typing errors)

typo --- I could see it from many cars back, the distinctive blue O (shaped like a sun or rainbow over a arching field of red and blue striped land -- for example):

s/b - -- I could see it from many cars back, the distinctive blue O (shaped like a sun or rainbow over a arching field of red and white striped land -- for example):

Snippet from Harold Meyerson:

Barack Obama's strong victory last night, in a state that is 95 percent white, is that rarity of rarities: a positive shock to the American political system. And Obama played that for all it was worth in his victory speech, which came closer to King Henry's (well, Shakespeare's) Crispin Day oration to his troops on the eve of battle than any American political speech I can think of.

"This was the moment," Obama intoned again and again. It was the moment when "it all began," when we tore down the "barriers that divided us for too long."

"Years from now," he told his Iowa legions, and those in New Hampshire as well, "you'll look back" at this memorable moment when America ceased to be" -- well, he said, "red and blue," but he also really meant "black and white."

IT WAS THE MOMENT OF THE RE-CREATION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

("And gentlemen in England now abed/Shall think themselves accursed they were not here…Whiles any speaks/That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day.")

Top that, Hillary. Top that, John (be he Edwards or McCain). The wind in Obama's sails just now is that of American destiny, if you view our history, as part of us always wishes to, as a long arc bending towards justice. The divisions in Washington that he rails against are real, but they are also code, Obama-code, for that greater division that has always defined us as a nation. Obama is our first leading national political figure to speak in racial code not to signal racism without actually saying anything racist, but to signal racial transcendence without actually saying we're transcending racism.

(EMPHASIS MINE) 

45.

rich^kolker
Fri, 01/04/08

Oh,

And I think regularly about how different this country would be today if Sirhan had missed.
--------

???
..., imo, it's overestimation of the subjective factors comparing to objective ones.

The Entrance Polls for the Democrats were quite interesting. Because they represent first rather than final preferences, they show HRC doing significantly better than Edwards, and Obama a bit below his final levels. Participation by independents was pretty much where it was in 2004 (about 20%), and though Obama won heavily among them, he also narrowly carried self-identified Democrats as well (and--mirable dictu--women). Despite the heavily left-bent nature of Edwards' closing pitch, and the rapidly spreading stampede of progressive bloggers from Obama to Edwards on grounds that Obama was sounding like one of those damned centrists, Obama won decisively among those calling themselves "very liberal," and by double digits among those calling themselves "somewhat liberal." Meanwhile, Edwards romped among the small number of self-identifed conservatives, and his best income category by far was those earning more than $100,000.

The most astonishing entrance poll figure involves age: as high a percentage of Democratic Caucus participants (22%) were under 30 as were over 65. Since Obama won 57% in the former category and HRC won 45% in the latter, the relatively young age distribution was probably the single biggest factor in the outcome.--Al Kilgore

(EMPHASIS MINE) 

rae hart
Fri, 01/04/08
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No to all your assinine remarks........and the quote "if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen" goes back a couple of hundred years thank you.........no, Im not a supporter of Hillary Clinton.........nor Barack Obama or John Edwards.......or any of the candidates from either party thank you..........Al Gore I am still behind, but he is too far advanced for the job or these people IMO.........and that speaks volumes...............

I am merely a "cultural observer" nowadays........and will refuse to jump on the bandwagon based on race, gender, likeability or religion................its the issues and state of the country that matters most.

You see Edwards as a change agent despite his activities and votes in the Senate.

 Because he's been out of the Senate for the past four years and has built his candidacy around a very different direction from how he governed.  I questioned that conversion for a long time.  It seemed too convenient.  But after seeing him in person once and on television a lot of the time, I sensed the conversion was genuine.  

Now, I could be wrong there too, but I don't think so. 

Look, if Obama wins the nomination, I will have no problem voting for him (unlike Hillary).  But I don't expect real change in the relationship between big government and big business that has dragged this country in the wrong direction for half a century. 

If Obama's candidacy continues to be the catalyst that inspires young people to actually come out and participate in their country's democracy then he deserves to be president.  What he's doing is revolutionary.

Just had to say it again.

P.S.  Obama/Edwards would be aok with me. 

I am a 63 year old white woman, religion Mormon.  Race does not matter.  Stop talking about it. 

60.

before I go,

rae hart -

I disagree with your statement about Michael -- he's not a Hillary supporter (read his years' worth of past threads here and you would be able to dicipher that).

But you are right about the Michelle-smiling business (Google, Yahoo, like I just did, the name Michelle Obama, click Images and count how many smiles you see on her versus the frowns).

Rich, I don't think we know enough about Obama now that would indicate he'd be a corporatist...my initial problem with him, really.  He's too new--we just don't know enough about him.

That he work so hard to appeal to and inspire young people makes me believe that he is for real change.  

Confession:  I am a solid evidence-based thinker but also an eternal optimist:) 

rae hart
Fri, 01/04/08

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You forgot to mention gender, religion and likeability...........the key factors MANY will vote on...pretty stupid, eh?

71

Thanks Michael, I have not been called assinine for a long time.  Makes me think I really have someone thinking.

I like Al Gore too.

I really don't care what anyone saids this morning because Obama won!

* rdorgan
Fri, 01/04/08

___________________________________________________________________________

Thank you........consider the  Michell Obama smile battle...........over.  Lets move on please.

8.

seashell :-)
Fri, 01/04/08


Obama said tonight that he would implement tax cuts for the middle class. I think this is unwise.

DISASTER. but considering the Democrats aren't fans' of his moderate policies, this isn't a surprise.

_____________________________

Rae....I agree, this shouldn't be about skin color, but their own campaign and his supporters have frequently themselves made it about it which always bothered me. I'm apparently like you, we tend to not look at it, I look at the person and the issues and their record. But even his own supporter played the race card too many times INTENTIONALLY bouncing back and forth. Attack that you must be a racist if you didn't support him. Or support him because his race sends a message. So this is what they have created.

66.

Tom Bearse
Fri, 01/04/08

...
Maybe. You see Edwards as a change agent despite his activities and votes in the Senate.
---------

!!!
Agree!
Doubts should be the same..., EXCEPT...lol, Edward's "sunny", "optimistic" look LURES people to BELEIVE him more.

Again, "representation" implying BELEIVING rather than KNOWING!

Edwards did well on NBC even with the grilling Meredith gave him.

And now, until THE CORPORATE MEDIA TRIES TO PRETEND A BIT OF OPENESS, and until KEITHIE...WHO FED HIM A BAD PIECE OF NEWS.

MIKE GRAVEL FOR PRESIDENT....Will be out campaigning this week in New Hampshire.
Gravel For President 2008 Press Release
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Senator Gravel's
New Hampshire
Campaign Schedule

January 3, 2008
Arr: 12:00 AM Luncheon and Address to Portsmouth Rotary Club
Redhook Ale Brewery
35 Corporate Dr. (Pease International Tradeport)
Portsmouth, NH 03801
Arr: 1:30 PM Talk & Discussion with History Students
Oyster River High School
55 Coe Dr.
Durham, NH 03824
Arr: 3:00 PM WUNH Radio Interview (91.3 FM)
Memorial Union Building
83 Main St.
Durham, NH 03824
Arr: 3:30-5:30 PM NH Presidential Primary Televised Health Care Forum
Manchester Community Access Media (MCAM-TV23)
540 N. Commercial Street
Manchester, NH 03101
Arr: 6:00-7:30 PM "Initiatives for Empowerment" Democratic Debate
Manchester Community Access Media (MCAM-TV23)
540 N. Commercial Street
Manchester, NH 03101
January 4, 2008
Arr: 6:25 AM Interview at WMUR Studios
100 S. Commercial St.
Manchester, NH 03101
Arr: 12:00 PM "Left, Right & Correct" Radio Program w/ Dan Belforti
Portsmouth Community Radio
707 Islington St.
Portmouth, NH 03802
Arr: 7:00 PM Young Americans Debate (The BUNDE Group)
Keene High School Auditorium
43 Arch St.
Keene, NH 03431
January 5, 2008
Arr: 11:00 AM Discussion with the Indian-American Community
Meadowview Estates Clubhouse
1 Meadowview Circle
Nashua, NH 03062
Arr: 1 - 5 PM Women Working Together to Make a Difference Forum
Palace Theatre
Manchester, NH
Arr: 10:00 PM Interview at WMUR Studios
100 S. Commercial St.
Manchester, NH 03101
January 6, 2008
Arr: 10:30 PM Candidates Reception and Breakfast
Temple Adath Yeshurun
152 Prospect Street
Manchester, NH 03104
Contact: Sol Rockenmacher, MD
Tel: 603-232-3477
Arr: 1:00 PM Town Hall Meeting
Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Franklin
206 Central St.
Franklin, NH 03235
Arr: 7:00 PM Town Hall Meeting
Phillips Exeter Academy
20 Main St.
Exeter, NH 03833
January 7, 2008
Arr: 10:15 AM Morning Coffee & Talk with Residents
New Hampshire Veterans Home
139 Winter Street
Tilton, NH 03276
Arr: 12:00 PM Every Child Matters Forum
2 Delta Drive (Maine Room, 2nd Floor)
Concord, NH 03301
Arr: 5:10 PM Interview at WMUR Studios
100 S. Commercial St.
Manchester, NH 03101
January 8, 2008
NH PRIMARY DAY
Arr: TBD Primary Night Party
Campaign HQ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Learn More www.gravel2008.us [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HySqovCXYUe6x...]

The Iowa caucuses were about race only in that a black man won in a 95% white state!

Thank you Iowa. 

9:48AM

82. s/b supporterS...ie many

oops, one last thing --

-- if any one is interested in lurking, etc. on the Obama '08 blog entries this morning, there's numerous comments from people around the world congratulating Iowans for last night's dem caucus results:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hqblog

75.

*** cChalfonte***
Fri, 01/04/08


...Obama's candidacy...
What he's doing is revolutionary.
----------

Nope..., he (and the rest) are just following what "we, the People" have been DEMANDING for quite long!

79

Good for you, rae. Not worth listening to. If it was someone else, we'd be inundated with newsclips, quotes, and cute little tag lines and full blown front page posts. Ad nauseum.

Anyone can poke holes and it's easier to go negative than find the positive in anyone, but that's the dark side of human nature.

I don't think Obama/Edwards will ever happen

55

I agree with you former! I hope we can get past it and just see him for what he is, as well as all of the other candidates.

It was a tough fight for him for US Senate, and the slate he ran against was very diverse, but he came out the victor in a state that is mostly GOP county wise.

Off to work - have a good day everyone!

Edwards Reconsidered
By Norman Solomon
~~~~~~~~~
But Edwards was the most improved presidential candidate of 2007. He sharpened his attacks on corporate power and honed his calls for economic justice. He laid down a clear position against nuclear power. He explicitly challenged the power of the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical giants.

And he improved his position on Iraq to the point that, in an interview with the New York Times at the start of January, he said: "The continued occupation of Iraq undermines everything America has to do to reestablish ourselves as a country that should be followed, that should be a leader." Later in the interview, Edwards added: "I would plan to have all combat troops out of Iraq at the end of nine to ten months, certainly within the first year."

Now, apparently, Edwards is one of three people with a chance to become the Democratic presidential nominee this year. If so, he would be the most progressive Democrat to top the national ticket in more than half a centur
~~~~~~
http://pdamerica.org/articles/news/2008-...

Obama's finest speeches do not excite. They do not inform. They don't even really inspire. They elevate. They enmesh you in a grander moment, as if history has stopped flowing passively by, and, just for an instant, contracted around you, made you aware of its presence, and your role in it. He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh, over color, over despair. The other great leaders I've heard guide us towards a better politics, but Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves, to the place where America exists as a glittering ideal, and where we, its honored inhabitants, seem capable of achieving it, and thus of sharing in its meaning and transcendence.

The tens of thousands of new voters Obama brought to the polls tonight came because he wrapped them in that experience, because he let them touch politics as it could be, rather than merely as it is. And for that, he deserved to win. And he deserves our thanks. The politician who gets the most votes merits our congratulations. But the politician who enlarges our politics and empowers more Americans to step forward into the public square deserves our gratitude. And we, in turn, deserve to permit ourselves to feel inspired, if only for a night.

--Ezra Klein 

Good morning fellow Deaniacs.

Here is a fine diary on why Hillary lost - out with the old and in with the new (Obama, Edwards)

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1...

Linda, I agree. There's no way Edwards would be a VP candidate again. And it isn't over for him. I tire of all the pundits saying he's finished, etc.

oops:

Edward's "sunny", "optimistic" look LURES people to BELEIVE him more.
=
Edward's "sunny", "optimistic" look may LURE older people into BELEIVE him more while Obama's “inspired” speeches may LURE younger people into BELEIVE him more.

In any case, the "representative democracy" is a LURE into BELEIVING.

The real democracy is a FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE!

one hurdle down (IA) , another one to go (NH):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080104/ap_po/democrats_analysis_5

Analysis: Obama, Clinton face big test

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer

1 hour, 54 minutes ago

MANCHESTER, N.H. - Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton — welcome to New Hampshire, where you each face the biggest test of your political lives.

Obama, whose victory in Iowa on Thursday transformed him into a political giant slayer, faces five days of heightened scrutiny before the state's Jan. 8 primary amid the klieg lights of sudden superstardom.

Clinton, who just weeks ago was the undisputed Democratic front-runner, must use those same five days to rebound from a crippling loss in Iowa in order to prevent her candidacy from imploding.

"New Hampshire is the last chance for someone who loses Iowa," said Andrew Smith, polling director for the University of New Hampshire. "You lose in Iowa and you lose New Hampshire, it's done. You go home."

Analysts of all stripes expect a sharp change in tone in New Hampshire after the candidates spent a year playing "Iowa Nice."

Obama's message of hope and unity was also a fine fit for Iowa, a state where voters are notoriously resistant to negative campaigning. The Democratic contest there was a relatively civil affair, where not a single televised attack ad was aired and where the contenders exchanged only mild jabs.

Such pleasantries will surely be jettisoned in New Hampshire by Clinton and John Edwards, who placed slightly ahead of Clinton in Iowa and who has shown his willingness to take a scalpel to his opponents when necessary. Edwards staked much of his candidacy on Iowa but aides say he has the resources in New Hampshire to fight on.

...

Edwards, meanwhile, can be expected to renew questions about whether Obama's brand of unity politics is too naive for the dog-eat-dog world of partisan Washington.

...

93. mary yes. Makes you wonder how they're so anxious to silence the non corporate voice......which also show the success of Edwards, because they had been pushing Obama, his coveraage was over 3 times the amount and the most positive coverage in years, so for John Edwards to have finished so well with not just their help, but their ANGRY painting, he did quite well.

speaking of ...-eat-..., I really gotta go know and eat my celebration brunch

ciao

Judicial Watch......

The ten most dishonest politicians of '07, and FOUR of them are running for PRESIDENT.

Here's a partial list:

Clinton
Obama
Huckabee
Giulliani

Some company they keep: Scooter Libby, Nancy Pelosi, Larry Craig.

We put them there.

 Here's a taste of what's in the other blogspheres today...

"When a black man comes into a heavily white, rural, Republican state and out draws EVERYONE - Republicans and Democrats alike - it is a HUGE deal. 239,000 Democrats (about 90,000 for Obama - in fact Obama drew roughly the same amount of voters as the first three Republicans COMBINED!) and this in a Republican state.

I am a southern man who believed there were still too many racists and those of their ilk in America for a thing like this to happen. I have never been so pleased to dine on crow in my entire life!!!!

GOP spin hacks - Go ahead and minimize this all you want. In fact I prefer that you remain slumbering until after the hammer falls in November."   

rich wrote that despite his record, he saw Edwards as a change agetn "Because he's been out of the Senate for the past four years and has built his candidacy around a very different direction from how he governed.  I questioned that conversion for a long time.  It seemed too convenient."

That's my problem, but the fact that Edwards has been out of the Senate that number of years is a salient distinction from Obama.

But I still have a concern.  It's possible to assume that Edwards' record in the Senate reflects the caution of an elected office holder.  It's natural, because he or she represents a constituency, not a party or platform campaigned on, necessarily, and gets pulled in different directions while in office.  To a greater or lesser extent, you would have to assume the same is true of Obama as well.

My question regards the issue of convenience that you raise.  Edwards was in office when he first launched his presidential campaign and, like Kerry, Clinton, Biden and Dodd, but unlike Graham and Kucinich, cast a vote to favor authorization.  Presumably, again, this was with the idea that this type of defense-minded, sabre rattling policy and voting record would be viewed by the electorate as good judgment in the face of a threat from terrorism and unrest in the middle east.

Obama wasn't in office at that time, but his senatorial campaign was about to launch.  In his case, like Dean and Gore, he opposed this approach, even though we can well postulate in retrospect that this position required some political courage because it did not reflect the mood of the voting majority. 

Edwards eventually changed his view and may sound very sincere.  I mean, he is a distinguished trial lawyer.  The significant differences to me are that 1) the change again reflects popular views regarding the conflict, and 2) his new found freedom from the burdens of elected office allow him to criticize the actions of current officeholders, who are stuck with a dilemma caused by his votes, the same he had when he was a Senator.  Specifically, in voting, legislators must now weigh the wisdom of handing an issue to the party of the commander in chief by cutting off Iraq funding.  As I mentioned earlier, this is a problem for Obama and his colleagues, since they represent a constituency as well as a national political campaign, not just a campaign, geared specifically towards the base of his party, as Edwards does. 

In this entire chapterI wouldn't award anyone other than Kucinich and Graham profiles in courage for their votes, but Obama has gone to the Detroit Economic Club to discuss fleet mileage standards and in general, as a Senator, challenged the Clinton campaign from the left.  In contrast, the challenge from Edwards appeared only after his term as a Senator was over.  That's what strikes me as political expediency.

New thread discussion...

There's a new thread. 

http://blogforamerica.com/view/23446#comment-1150981 

I remember quite many (even Dean including) were recalling Bush while he was "leading" Texas as completely different person.

 Not me.  I was in Texas when he was Governor. 

And I think regularly about how different this country would be today if Sirhan had missed.
--------

???
..., imo, it's overestimation of the subjective factors comparing to objective ones.

 Huh?  I worked on RFK's campaign.  I remember 1968 (jokes about if you remember it you weren't there notwithstanding). 1968 was a turning point.  RFK was the one person (not Gene McCarthy, who I respect tremendously, but who couldn't do this) who could hold together a Democratic Party that included both the new left and the old, white collar intellectuals and blue collar union workers, cultural liberals and Catholic social conservatives.  That started coming apart in 1968.  By 1972 we had "Democrats for Nixon" and in 1984 the "Reagan Democrats."  An RFK Presidency would have invalidated Nixon's methodology of slime and drive up the other guy's negatives, would have invalidated the Southern Strategy, no Watergate, no Enemies Lists.

RFK wasn't a saint, no man is, but this would be a very different nation had he been elected President. 

I'm sorry, but I don't know who this Tim Horrigan is who is endorsing Edwards. That's what I've mentioned before about these headlines for a new thread.Is he in New Hampshire? Is he a blogger or connected with DFA in whatever state this is from?

Just a little more identifying would be appreciated.

I found watching the caucus process for the dems absolutely fascinating. Dems are just more interesting than Repubs. All they do is a secret ballot..

Tim Horrigan lives in New Hampshire. He is an Edwards supporter, pure and simple, not a paid operative. I like his letter. I am an IL DFA member who supports Edwards and worked in Iowa for Edwards during the caucus. Edwards is the true populist.