I got a call from Martha Gamez with the CDP today. Elizabeth Kucinich is scheduled to appear at the CDP Campaign Skills Training happening this weekend in Fresno around 12:00 noon! Mrs. Kucinich is an amazing human being. I got to meet her at the CDP E-Board meeting held in Anaheim. She was the honored guest speaker during one of the General Sessions. I hope you can attend one of these events, so, you can meet her too.

For details about CDP Campaign Skills Training in Fresno click HERE: http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/23113...

Gov. Chair Howard Dean, MD is first here!

Notice in the above pic Elizabeth is avoiding looking at her husband. Hmmm!

The Deans, DFA and the DFA grassroots and netroots are first!


Support DFA's fight for a Progressive Presidential Candidate.

48.
audrey.nc
Sat, 12/01/07
1:04 pm

 Yes, there's nobody gooder than Dean. Your scheme has a little problem... the calendar. It would push a pres. run to '16. unless he did an Obama and quit when he felt like it.

Well, it hasn't hurt Obama or Hillary to run after only a few years in the Senate. But unlike them, he would do much good in the meantime. And I don't think he should base his public service solely on presidential considerations.

The so called Progressives need to grow some spine too...on their own. Sanders won't even support impeachment.

Nothing helps spinitude more than having another ally to back you up and help you lead. More good people in government means more good government. 

And how can we and DFA encourage honest and liberal people to run for office and tell our own mentor and role model not to?

You made my point ....... when you said "as when he was Governor. He's a take charge, let's get things done person, I don't think he'd be very happy with compromising nitty gritty bills that end up not being anything.

On the contrary, as governor Dean showed a remakable ability to work with people and reach compromises that weren't sellouts and did the most possible good.

Notice in the above pic Elizabeth is avoiding looking at her husband. Hmmm!

Some pictures aren't worth a thousand words and in fact can convey false impressions. 

6.

Then again . . .

~~~~~~~~~~~~

C-Span 2:30 ET today, there will be a Dem candidate forum. As far as I can tell, the participants will be:

Obama, Clinton, Edwards, Dodd, & Kucinich

Nothing noted on C-span about Biden, Richardson or Gravel

Bush Says Funding Iraq, Afghan Wars Is Congress's Top Priority

Bush has assumed the dual roles of Senate majority leader and House Speaker. Wow - this man is truly amazing:)

Some pretty catty remarks about my guy Kucinich  and his wife above. If anyone dared to say the same about Michelle Obama, there'd be hell to pay.

By EILEEN SULLIVAN and DEVLIN BARRETT The Associated Press
Saturday, December 1, 2007; 3:21 AM

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration intends to slash counterterrorism funding for police, firefighters and rescue departments across the country by more than half next year, according to budget documents obtained by The Associated Press.

The Homeland Security Department has given $23 billion to states and local communities to fight terrorism since the Sept. 11 attacks, but one document says the administration is not convinced that the money has been well spent and thinks the nation's highest-risk cities have largely satisfied their security needs.

*****************************************

The point I want to make about this story is that it is entirely consistent with the Republican philosophy of considering government service as an opportunity to funnel public resources or assets into private pockets.  It seems fairly clear that much of the money spent on Homeland Security was used to purchase equipment which the "protective services" did not find useful and, as a result, they're not going to be able to be counted on as supporters in the next election.  So, what's the point of funding them?

Hillary has served a full term in the Senate and is on her second term, which also shows she won a re-election, unlike a couple other candidates have been unable to show.

_____________________________

Admirable quality that Elizabeth Kucinich always seems soft spoken and quite at ease with herself and seems totally smitten with her Dennis. Another admirable quality is carefully chosen words, as opposed to just speaking without true quality of saying.

Huron John
Sat, 12/01/07
1:58 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah, but lets try and maintain a sense of humour about it all..........who knows what shes staring at...................it staggers the imagination!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sITKA.....

Well we don't know if not fulfilling his term in the Senate will hurt him yet, but it sure exposes his character.

Allow me to say something positive in Hillary's behalf. It would be the only thing I could think of. Hilary did say she'd complete her first term and she did. She did not say she would the second term.

7.

Joan* In*Florida
Sat, 12/01/07
1:45 pm


She is listening to his words. When I listen to my hubby speak, it may appear that I am looking down or sometimes away. But I am not. I am listening. I also like to observe people form words.

WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! YEAH IRELAND....CHEERS!

...I wish I could remember that song I was singing with a group of friends from Ireland when I lived and worked on Miami Beach. They sure could drink. We walked up and down and in an out all the Bars in the hotel on Collins Ave singing a popular song (so I was told) to the weee hours in the early mornin'.

Minister Ryan and Gore discuss future energy sources


Saturday, December 01, 2007
The Energy Minister Eamon Ryan has been meeting with former US vice-president Al Gore to discuss future energy sources for Ireland.

Mr Ryan said that the high-profile environmental campaigner was inspiring and positive about our future.

The minister said they agreed that increased commitment to developing and funding renewable energy sources here is key to our future sustainability.

And he also said that nuclear power was entirely ruled out as a solution for Ireland.

Minister Ryan and Gore discuss future energy sources
Email Article
Print Version
Search
Most Emailed
Most Read



Saturday, December 01, 2007
The Energy Minister Eamon Ryan has been meeting with former US vice-president Al Gore to discuss future energy sources for Ireland.

Mr Ryan said that the high-profile environmental campaigner was inspiring and positive about our future.

The minister said they agreed that increased commitment to developing and funding renewable energy sources here is key to our future sustainability.

And he also said that nuclear power was entirely ruled out as a solution for Ireland.

Huron John.....
Linda in SFnm

I think the two of them have learned to see the person inside to appreciate.

Oh, but if we would all do that, I think Dennis Kucinich would be our next President.

oops, sorry, it double posted, not the link.

here.,

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaki...

10.

Not catty John, just a reasonable observation.

Watch the Heartland Forum!

Sorry, I have to repost, it is so nice to see folks taking off the table the things that HURT US, not vice versa.

Minister Ryan and Gore discuss future energy sources



Saturday, December 01, 2007
The Energy Minister Eamon Ryan has been meeting with former US vice-president Al Gore to discuss future energy sources for Ireland.

Mr Ryan said that the high-profile environmental campaigner was inspiring and positive about our future.

The minister said they agreed that increased commitment to developing and funding renewable energy sources here is key to our future sustainability.

And he also said that nuclear power was entirely ruled out as a solution for Ireland.


YEAH BABY!!!

December 1, 2007
Democrats vote to strip Michigan of its delegates

VIENNA, Virginia (CNN) – The Democratic National Committee voted Saturday to deny Michigan’s request to hold its primary on January 15, but party leaders vowed to move forward with the event even though its delegates won’t count in the presidential nominating contest.

“This is about principle,” Debbie Dingell, a Michigan DNC member, said in an interview after the vote. “It is the only way we are going to get there.

On CSPAN-1

Can you imagine a minority forum in Iowa?  Watch C-SPAN

Yikes! I just took down 3 layers of wallpaper to find cheap paneling in my kitchen

A funny story about Dennis and Elizabeth.

Last Aug. when I went to the DNC convention in Las Vegas with my daughter and other deaniacs my daughter came up to the hotel room at night saying she swore she saw Elizabeth and Dennis playing the slot machines. Dennis was not on the schedule to speak like Richardson so we thought my daughter just had Democratic candidates in her head. We said, "No way Kucinich wouldn' t gamble."--I guess it is like not believing your teach grocery shops.

The next morning the schedule on the DNC convention said, "Surprise Guest".

Marcia thought for sure it was Howard and left early to get a front seat. Lois, my daughter and I opted to sleep in. (You have to remember we spent the night in a Las Vegas Hotel)

Well, who else but Dennis Kucinich was the special guest! I won't doubt my daughter. She knew it is hard to pass the slots.

Estimate of AIDS Cases In U.S. Rises
New Test Places the Rate Of Infection 50 Percent Higher
By David Brown

Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 1, 2007; Page A01

New government estimates of the number of Americans who become infected with the AIDS virus each year are 50 percent higher than previous calculations suggested, sources said yesterday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

The people running this Dem forum seem to think it is more about them than the candidates.

And good grief, a Republican candidate agreed to come but was then turned down because it may look like the forum was endorsing him. What the ???

49.

Holly J
Sat, 12/01/07
1:08 pm

Holly,

Good luck with your local party. I have come to a different conclusion. The Dem party will always regard progressives as necessary but minority partners and take us for granted. It is rife with cronyism and spending all the time and effort it would take to work one's way up in that system without becoming coopted is a daunting task. I commend you for trying but it is a very low probability of yielding anything beyond intense frustration.

Kucinich is a good example. He is "tolerated" but he cannot gain traction in the Party. And Dean has been effectively isolated and marginalized. Even the 50 state project has limited promise because it KEEPS IN PLACE the same crony system in the red/purple states. It provide money and some staff but it doesn't require reforms that would provide an entrance for progressives.  

See you in a year....

I think the effort, time and money would be better spent buildng a true progressive party (not the Green party) would be a better avenue for us. We do need someone with a respected nationally known reputation (Dean or Gore) though to get it moving.

http://eatapyzch.blogspot.com/

Five stars to Edwards at the Forum, great answers!

Wow!! Looks like Kucinich impressed a lot of Iowa caucus goers. His spanish was impressive also.

Clinton couldn't make it in persons because of weather?

This was not a plus for Hillary.

She's using the NH incident as an excuse not to show up. 

Edwards, Obama, Dodd, and Biden are great candidates, but it's a Kucinich bumper sticker holding the rusty nether parts of my Old Bronco together. It's all about the single-payeruniversal healthcare, the Dept. of Peace, the respect for DFA and the great big balls to file richly-deserved Articles of Impeachment.

Well we don't know if not fulfilling his term in the Senate will hurt him yet, but it sure exposes his character.

I don't think either Hillary or Obama potentially not serving out their Senate terms says anything about their characters.

Hilary did say she'd complete her first term and she did. She did not say she would the second term.

I can't find any promise by Obama to serve out his full term. If you know of it please share a link if possible. But as I said, it doesn't matter to mean anyway.

And it wouldn't speak ill of Dean's character either if he was elected a senator in 2010 and ran for president in 2012. 

Dodd did good.

Obama next.

Some people in NC have never forgiven Edwards for not serving his full term in the Senate. He deprived his constituents of representation.

You might not thin

Sitka...

Sorry....I'll finish, You might not think ill of Dean if he quit, but I think he would.

To run for office and be elected is a contract with the people. I think an obligation to fulfill that is obvious, unless there were overwhelming compliance with your constituency.

Some people in NC have never forgiven Edwards for not serving his full term in the Senate.

He did serve his full term -- and he won the primary. So it must have been just a few cranks who were upset by if, if anyone. 

He deprived his constituents of representation.

I'm sure they would have preferred a president from their state. Anyone who wouldn't is crazy. 

It is the economy, stupid.

The war is not going to drive the Dems to victory.

I'll finish, You might not think ill of Dean if he quit, but I think he would.

Who can say what's in the mind of Dean but he himself? 

To run for office and be elected is a contract with the people.

Yet you don't mind that Hillary is now breaking her "contract with the people."

I think you're making up a rationale and applying it arbitrarily.

41 (well, after this post it will become 42)

Sitka wrote,

 "He did serve his full term -- and he won the primary. So it must have been just a few cranks who were upset by if, if anyone."

>

That's just a garbage post. haha, don't take me too seriously Sitka, but that is just a cranky post @ ...42.

The war is not going to drive the Dems to victory.

Especally since they're not living up to their promises to end it. 

That's just a garbage post. haha, don't take me too seriously Sitka, but that is just a cranky post

That's your interpretation (incorrect) of its intent. You don't refute its factuality. 

Obama said,

If/when he wins, he will have the people set the agenda for the general election by having the people get together in communities and push the agenda from the communities.

[...its intent. You don't refute its factuality. ]

<

0.

"So it must have been" is speculation, so it fails to earn a factual retort.

I don't know, that's the best I can do to sink this little debate.  Point to me.

 factuality ?  What?;)

No new replies, so I'm going to rest after just running 10 miles. Booya!

Especally since they're not living up to their promises to end it.

>

The majority will come on the issues surrounding the economy.

Imn2Paine
Sat, 12/01/07
4:56 pm 

Fact: Edwards did serve his full term. And, as it ended in Jan. 2003, he would have served it all even if he had been elected president.

It is of course only my opinion that anyone who doesn't want a president from their own state and party is a crank and that there aren't many of them around. 

Sitka....

No point in saying more. When you don't want to "see" something, it just doesn't exist.

The majority will come on the issues surrounding the economy.

That's what determines almost every election. But failing to live up to their promise to end the Iraq Disaster will hurt Democrats because many won't lift a finger to help or vote for them. 

It is of course only my opinion

>

OK: point of agreement.

When you don't want to "see" something, it just doesn't exist.

That's pretty much what I said to you first. But I do have trouble seeing made up rationales applied arbitrarily. 

OK: point of agreement.

I hope you also agree that it's a fact Edwards served his full term. Don't make me google it for you. 

Everyone did very well. I always like Dodd. He and Biden are the only ones who can claim that they have solved or tried to solve many of these domestic problems for years. Their records are their proof and they are proud of them.

In Hillary's defense, she did not appear in person because the airport in Des Moines was closed for hours today and she was flying in from NH.

Gotta love the answer from Kucinich about letting all those Community based organizations. He invited them all in the WH to stay in the Lincoln Bedroom -- the government is open for their business. I do believe he would too.

Fact: Edwards did serve his full term. And, as it ended in Jan. 2005

54

Well, Cindy Sheehan ain't got a rats chance...no matter the hoards of anti-war people beating the drums.

Dept. of Peace?  I like what cC said, "We already have a Dept of State"

Frankly, I cannot believe Hillary did that.  She flew into New Hampshire to capitalize on that demented incident in Rochester and then used that as an excuse for not meeting her commitment to the people who organized the Heartland Forum in Iowa!  Some of those people traveled 12 hours on a bus to be there!  And she stiffed them!  

Unbelievable! 

I always like Dodd. He and Biden are the only ones who can claim that they have solved or tried to solve many of these domestic problems for years.

They've got some bad votes too. But since they collectively poll at maybe 6%, it isn't worth digging up and posting them.

Don't make me google it for you. 

>

OMG, spare me;)  Facts are fact and I granted it without further comment

Uhg!  You googled!  Yuck;!

59.  There was no reason for her to be in NH other than to grand-stand.  At best her behavior could be compared to ambulance chasing.  Everyone else who was at the DNC event in Virginia made it to Iowa, if they wanted to.  Biden, Gravel and Richardson apparently chose not to.

Frankly, I cannot believe Hillary did that.

I expect that if she had made an appearance she would be accused of exploiting what happened yesterday. 

61.  We do not pay attention to polls, sitka.  Remember?

 We do not pay attention to polls, sitka.  Remember?

Except when I can use it as an excuse to not dig up the dirt on Dodd and Biden. 

59(?)

Some of those people traveled 12 hours on a bus to be there!  And she stiffed them!

>

Maybe, Monica, but it seems plausible that she wanted to facilitate closure for her staff in NH and herself on the drama they experienced yesterday.

Did I mention that at the beginning the moderator cautioned the audience to be polite?

The only time she had to remind them was after Clinton was booed.  The audience did not like her responses. 

Monica, my understanding is that Hillary was already scheduled to be in New Hampshire.  Sometimes people do the right thing for the right reasons.

57.  The paper says she came into Portsmouth.  The incident happened in Rochester.  Not even in the same county.  Bunch of hooey!

donna in evanston
Sat, 12/01/07
5:31 pm

>

I suppose you googled that?  Sheesh, you and Sitka with ...all the facts;)

The paper says she came into Portsmouth.  The incident happened in Rochester.

Was she scheduled to be in Portmouth? Going to Rochester would have been attacked as exploitative.

Hooey?!!!  Hooey you say?!!!  Perhaps you'd like to take this kerfuffle outside. ;-)  Or would you rather have a brou-ha-ha?

68.  If she was already scheduled in NH this time of year, then she wasn't taking the weather into account.  Poor planning.  Or, it's a matter of priorities.  She probably got wind of the fact that these people weren't going to ask the right questions.  Like, how do we get rid of NAFTA?

Bunch of hooey!  

>

See?  See what facts do?

If she was scheduled to be in Iowa today, she didn't have any business being in New Hampshire yesterday anyway.  

she didn't have any business being in New Hampshire yesterday

>

Facts, please?

Donna wrote "Perhaps you'd like to take this kerfuffle outside. ;-)  Or would you rather have a brou-ha-ha?"

Oh oh, sounds like we might have a donnybrook.  

EeeGads, I am 19 minutes behind the conversation.

Oops, more facts.

I think you're reaching, Monica. There are plenty of good reasons to be against Hillary based on her record and proposals.

But the problem supporters of some of the other candidates have is that their records and proposals differ little if any from Hillary's. That's the shame of this primary year -- so few real choices.

68.  Dig up dirt?  Sitka, I'm not aware that you do that.  You're bluffing.  LOL

Polls mean nothing to me at this point. Dodd, Biden or Richardson (eekk) could be a dark horse there. You can't trust Iowans to vote according to any dad-bum polls!

A BFA naysayer doesn't like the Democratic choices????

Perhaps you'd rather choose from the Republican lineup sitka:))))))

Hello, BFA ... a couple of quick posts before PillowLand ...

puddle, I stopped by Baby. Lovely. ♥ ♥ to you and Thankful both!! You two are lucky to have had each other during this past year when your loved ones left for a better place.

*******
Naomi Klein & Keith Olbermann make a great professional twosome! Hope that lots were watching and listening. *Armed robbery* ... you betcha!

================
Naomi Klein outlines 'The Shock Doctrine' with MSNBC's Olbermann
Nick Langewis and Mike Aivaz
Published: Saturday December 1, 2007

Naomi Klein, discussing her book The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism with MSNBC's Keith Olbermann, outlines how crises, real or perceived, have been used by governments, especially the United States under George W. Bush, to strongarm a disoriented citizenry into accepting changes to its rights, and its government, that it wouldn't otherwise accept.

People "don't actually want to hand their democracies over to multinational corporations," says Klein. "So, you need some kind of a shock. And that shock could be a war. It could be an economic meltdown. It could be a terrorist attack, but something that creates a period of confusion, of dislocation, of regression."

"And then," continues Klein, "politicians come forward, playing a father figure."

Klein cites, among historical reference points, the shock from the September 11 attacks, the vehicle with which Iraq was invaded, the PATRIOT Act was passed and the military was largely privatized by firms such as Blackwater and Halliburton.

The Iraq invasion is the next example, framed as a failed corporate selloff following the aptly named "Shock and Awe" campaign, with which former Bush administration official Richard Armitage sought to make the Iraqi people "easily martialed."

"There is a word for what happens when you invade a country, especially on a false pretense, and then you grab its assets," says Klein. "It's called looting, right? And it's illegal. And Iraqis responded as if their country was being looted. Not as if it was being restructured, or developed, or reconstructed, or any of the cleansed words that were used to describe it."

"It was a corporate takeover with guns," responds Olbermann.

[...]
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Namoi_Klei...

Reaching?  No, I don't think so.  I watched the whole forum and Hillary was not a hit.

Obama is very presentable.  But, the audience was more enthusiastic in responding to Edwards and Kucinich.  Dodd said the right things but his timing is a bit off.   

Sitka.....

What I said was that some people in NC have not fortiven Edwards for not finishing his term. They, for some strange reason, don't consider being on the Pres. campaign trail as "finishing". Argue the minutiae with them.

Global Research | November 29, 2007
Massachusetts School of Law

In violation of international and U.S. law, "thousands" of alleged terrorists have been victims of "extraordinary rendition" by the Bush Administration since 9/11, two legal scholars say. "Instead of working to bring those committing crimes against the United States to justice in U.S. courts, the Bush Administration seems intent on doing exactly the opposite�keeping such individuals away from U.S. courts, hidden in a web of secret prisons, underground interrogation cells, and in the hands of cooperative governments," write Margaret Satterthwaite and Angela Fisher. Satterthwaite is an assistant professor of clinical law at NYU School of Law and Fisher served as assistant research scholar with the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice.

(Article Continues Below)

"Extraordinary renditions, whether originating in territories under U.S. control (actual or effective) or merely carried out by U.S. agents, are unlawful and in violation of international treaties to which the United States is a party," the authors write. "Despite this clear prohibition, the Bush Administration continues to engage in this practice, using it to transfer detainees out of the reach of U.S. courts and into the realm of secret detentions and brutal interrogations."

http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/25409

Monica wrote "Obama is very presentable."

It's wonderful of you to say so.  According to Biden, Obama is "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,"

I want a cookie.

What IS that woman staring at????????????????????????????????????????????////

77.

I agree with that Monica, but the fact is that Clinton was in NH. And nobody could reasonably expect she wasn't there to take advantage of a situation.

And the airport in Des Moines was closed most of the day. But some of the advantage HC got in NH, if she got any at all, was certainly lost today. The phone thing was a distraction to an already distracted forum.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

A forum is a good platform. But IMO this forum was not run well. The candidates seemed to be asked to come there just as an afterthought. Their time allowed to speak was a small fraction of the two and one half hours it took, not to mention another half hour of speechs after it was supposedly over.

Interesting discussion over at DU on the *soft bigotry of religion* and Deism in the context of the US Constitution.

===================
The soft bigotry of religion in America

Contrary to the ranting of some, the founding fathers were not Christian. In fact George Washington was as close to Christian as any of them and he was a non-practicing Episcopalian. To be sure they had a reverence for God in one form or another but they steadfastly avoided involving Him directly in government, going so far as to ensconce the separation of church and state in Article IV of the constitution and again in the First Amendment.

Thomas Paine, among the most prolific writers of our founding fathers, wrote in Age of Reason: "I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.
. . .
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Who would have guessed that Paine would foretell modern televangelism?

In 1825 John Quincy Adams, a Unitarian, was sworn in as President with a legal brief in his hand and in 1901 Teddy Roosevelt was sworn in with nothing at all in his hands.

In the mid 1950s that began to change. In 1954, as a response to Communism and Senator Joe McCarthy’s great red scare, the words “under God” were inserted in the Pledge of Allegiance. Just a few years later, in 1957, Congress changed the national motto from “E Pluribus Unum” (Out of Many, One) to “In God We Trust” and the motto was placed on paper currency. That same year “So help me God” was added to Federal oaths. This God that federal officers were swearing with couldn’t possibly be a Christian God because the Bible clearly forbids swearing oaths; Mattew 5:33-37 and James 5:12.

[...]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

Joan, sorry to be bumping you around ... I don't mean to.

***********
More on Deism/

==============
Deism is a religious philosophy and movement that derives the existence and nature of God from reason and personal experience. This is in contrast to fideism which is found in religions like Judaism, many forms of Christianity[1], or Islam which rely on revelation in sacred scriptures or the testimony of other people.

Deists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God does not interfere with human life and the laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most Deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources.

Deism became prominent in Great Britain, France, and the United States in the 17th and 18th centuries and continues to this day in the form of Classical Deism and Modern Deism.

[...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

91.  Yes, well, the hosts get to set the agenda.  I know the people who organized this. They are proud.  They do not appreciate being dissed and they don't appreciate being patronized.

In case I have to remind you, it's my position that elections are about the voters. 

The 5000 people brought into Des Moines have a host of connections.   

When I say, "I know" I don't mean personally.  I mean I know where they 

are coming from. 

Judy -- Stop that butting in!:))

~~~~~~~~~~

Judy, I saw Naomi on Keith Dobermann's show. I have got to read that book, it really sounds like a winner. Must check the library first, then Amazon.

The Aussies will be pulling troops out of Iraq in 2008. Although the numbers are not significant, the symbolism inherent in the move is self-evident.

And Rudd speaks the truth of the matter.

===============
Rudd sets date for Iraq pull-out
Barbara McMahon
Saturday December 1, 2007
Guardian

Australia's new leader, Kevin Rudd, has said he will pull his country's troops out of Iraq by mid-2008, fulfilling a promise he made during the election campaign.

Rudd said he would meet Robert McCallum, the US ambassador to Australia, soon to discuss the precise timing of the withdrawal.

The 50-year-old politician, who will be sworn in as prime minister on Monday, has said he believes the presence of troops in Iraq has made Australia more of a target for terrorism.

"The combat force in Iraq we would have home by around about the middle of next year," Rudd said in a radio interview in the southern city of Melbourne.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33142...

94.

I found nothing wrong with the people who ran it Monica, just the way they ran the forum.

run.

Getting a bit testy around here.

bb tomorrow.

I think if Hillary didn't go to New Hampshire and stop campaigning while her offices and volunteers were being held hostage, she would have been charged for beling insensitive and mean and opportunistic.

I think it was honorable to take the time out of her campaigning to allow this the hostage situation to unfold with out her adding to the existing problem.

And, something tells me, as hard as Hillary has been campaigning in NH and IA, she would have wanted to be there if she was able, just like the event that she had to cancel because of the Hostage event.

All of this became unscheduled trips and trying to make her as being opportunistic for making the trip to New Hampshire to begin with, causing her to have flight problems for Iowa, I think is really off base.

89.  Well, Biden is wrong.  Jesse Jackson is more articulate and has more substance. Moreover, in addition to being a handsome fellow, he's passed his genes on to a bunch of articulate, talented and enterprising off-spring.  If Biden is being condescending to Obama it's probably because he considers him a callow youth.

audrey wrote "What I said was that some people in NC have not forgiven Edwards for not finishing his term."

What term didn't he finish?  He was only a senator from 1998 to 2004.  I personally found it upsetting that he did finish it. 

Monica wrote "Jesse Jackson is more articulate and has more substance."

Yes, but is he presentable?

Sitka, you said you'd like to see where Obama said he would "certainly not run for President in 08" and would "definitely serve his full 6 year term".


October 22, 2006, 6:19 pm
’08 and Obama: Door’s Open - ‘A Bit’

By Kate Phillips

Senator Barack Obama, Democrat of Illinois, cracked the door open a little more on a possible presidential bid, leaned on a little by Tim Russert on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

In an exchange we all knew was coming, Mr. Russert confronted Mr. Obama with statements he’d made earlier this year, even playing the videotape. Here it goes:

Mr. Russert: Well, nine months ago, you were on this program, and I asked you about running for president, and let’s watch and come back and talk about it.

Mr. Russert (From videotape) When we talked back in November of ‘04 after your election, I said there’s been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your full six-year term as United States senator from Illinois?
Mr. Obama: (From videotape) Absolutely.

… I will serve out my full six-year term. You know, Tim, if you get asked enough, sooner or later, you get weary, and you start looking for new ways of saying things, but my thinking has not changed.

Mr. Russert: (From videotape) So you will not run for president or vice president in 2008?

Mr. Obama: (From videotape) I will not.

Back to Sunday, Oct. 22:

Mr. Russert: You will not?

Mr. Obama: Well, that is how I was thinking at that time,

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/...

new thread

http://blogforamerica.com/view/23149#com...

Sorry, did it again ... and this time to Monica! :(

************
Naomi is a good one, all right. Hope that she's being careful about taking small planes, etc. Not so much tin-foil hat time when one thinks about all the good ones we've lost in just such a way.

************
As Mike and some others noted here, Bobby *Evel* Knievel left us yesterday. He was certainly not a political figure, but he was definitely an original. Having known quite a few people from Butte, MT, I would say that originality is a characteristic of Butte-ites. They would not have survived otherwise.

In 1978, we were at a track meet in Bozeman where my older son was competing, and my younger son caught sight of Evel, who was there cheering on one of his own. I was paying attention to the meet and was surprised when my younger son came up with a big smile on his face because he had gotten Evel's autograph.

Enjoy the Big Jump, Evel!

===================
Daredevil Evel Knievel dies at 69
· Motorcycle stuntman suffered lung disease
· Seventies star collapsed at home in Florida
Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Saturday December 1, 2007
Guardian

Evel Knievel, who earned worldwide fame for his bone-shattering motorcycle stunts and star-spangled white jumpsuits, collapsed and died yesterday at his home in Florida.

He was 69, and had been in poor health for years, suffering from diabetes and pulmonary fibrosis, an incurable lung condition.

"It's been coming for years, but you just don't expect it. Superman just doesn't die, right," Billy Rundel, a long-time friend and promoter, said yesterday.

The stuntman had his heyday in the 1970s, when his daredevil jumps over Greyhound buses and live sharks, were immortalised in Knievel pinball games and action figures.

But Knievel was as well known for his failures as his successes, which always made compelling television.

Among the most famous was his 1974 attempt to jump across Snake River canyon in Idaho on a rocket-powered cycle. Knievel crashed, but he made $6m that day from television rights and other marketing.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33142...

try again... new thread

http://blogforamerica.com/view/23149#com...

For HQ and the failed flow on the blog

Blind Faith  Can't Find My Way Home       MP3      1:16:22 (Real) Ranking Joe  Gideon Time   va: Twilight Sound System Presents Cultural Roots Showcase  M  CD    2007  1:19:56 (Real)

http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/24974

http://blogforamerica.com/view/23149#com...

...maybe not those "exact" words, but...

chilimac is correct.  There's a new thread.

Well, Kagan's been wrong about everything so far. It looks as if his losing streak is continuing.

Some of these guys will just never *get* it. Sure, it's right to be nervous about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal ... but has the situation just now dawned on Kagan?

With the decider's stunning *success* in every other military venture, things would not bode well for this one either.

************
btw, I agree with Linda in SFNM about Hillary. There's a bit too much second-guessing, IMO. She's damned either way. I think her actions in this situation do her credit. It's her actions in other areas that I have problems with.

==================
Bush handed blueprint to seize Pakistan's nuclear arsenal
· Architect of Iraq surge draws up takeover options
· US fears army's Islamists might grab weapons
Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark
Saturday December 1, 2007
Guardian

The man who devised the Bush administration's Iraq troop surge has urged the US to consider sending elite troops to Pakistan to seize its nuclear weapons if the country descends into chaos.

In a series of scenarios drawn up for Pakistan, Frederick Kagan, a former West Point military historian, has called for the White House to consider various options for an unstable Pakistan.

These include: sending elite British or US troops to secure nuclear weapons capable of being transported out of the country and take them to a secret storage depot in New Mexico or a "remote redoubt" inside Pakistan; sending US troops to Pakistan's north-western border to fight the Taliban and al-Qaida; and a US military occupation of the capital Islamabad, and the provinces of Punjab, Sindh and Baluchistan if asked for assistance by a fractured Pakistan military, so that the US could shore up President Pervez Musharraf and General Ashfaq Kayani, who became army chief this week.

"These are scenarios and solutions. They are designed to test our preparedness. The United States simply could not stand by as a nuclear-armed Pakistan descended into the abyss," Kagan, who is with the American Enterprise Institute, a thinktank with strong ideological ties to the Bush administration, told the Guardian. "We need to think now about our options in Pakistan,"

Kagan argued that the rise of Sunni extremism in Pakistan, coupled with the proliferation of al-Qaida bases in the north-west, posed a real possibility of terrorists staging a coup that would give them access to a nuclear device. He also noted how sections of Pakistan's military and intelligence establishment continued to be linked to Islamists and warned that the army, demoralised by having to fight in Waziristan and parts of North-West Frontier Province, might retreat from the borders, leaving a vacuum that would be filled by radicals. Worse, the military might split, with a radical faction trying to take over Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33142...

111. agree.

I'm sorry.  There was a gross over-reaction by officialdom to the demented fellow in Rochester.   The police have all been practicing for a terrorist attack and couldn't wait to shut everything down.  If the hostage taker had exploded himself, what good would having fifty officer surrounding the location have done?  As it was, he'd strapped some flares to himself.

106.  Let me put it this way.  Jesse Jackson is presidential.

My last comment for the night.

Tom wasn't kidding.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/23149...

fyi - new Front thread

Linda*in*SFNM
Sat, 12/01/07
6:10 pm

Thanks for digging that up. But since the debate was about whether Dean should run for Senate in 2010, it makes no difference.

The argument against him doing it got rather contrived and convoluted. 

116. OK, but you did ask if anyone could find a link for him (Obama)saying he serve a full term and that he wouldn't be running for Prez in 08....that's the only reason I dug it up. I don't see any comparison to be made for an argument against someone else for what another promises, especially if that other never made a similar statement.

A SunMt Video: First in the series reporting Elizabeth Kucinich's visit to Fresno, CA

----- Original Message -----
From: SunMt
To: SunMt Maia & Elfie Ballis
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 1:22 PM
Subject: Elizabeth Kucinich tells us about Dennis

See her on SunMt Chronicles:http://www.sunmt.org/dec8chron07.html

Smiling Seriously,
Maia & George Elfie Ballis
SunMt
Prather, CA

Elizabeth Kucinich for First Lady

by Posted by Mike Rhodes ( MikeRhodes [at] Comcast.net )

Monday Dec 3rd, 2007 9:09 AM

Elizabeth Kucinich, whose husband Dennis is running for President, was in Fresno last Saturday. The following is a report by Jay Hubbell, who helped organize the Fresno visit. Photos and full article: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/12...