Howard looks GREAT at the debate!  Numero UNO

Wondering - if the PRESIDENT of the United States told AT&T and others to give over that information.....are they liable?

Feinstein buckles.....

Keep Flogging!

I just happen to live in the state where Feinstein is a Senator. My God, retire already!

We shouldn't have to have a phone tree going to tell you how to make good choices.

Go Barbara - 2010 "elections have consequences"

Hey, Denise.  Sorry that I didn't get back to you.  i was unable to garner  service I offered.  Kinda bummed me out.  But that was then.

Hey, folks...the Dem candidates are for PRIVACY in relation to abortion.  I think it works. 

105.

Sitka
Thu, 11/15/07
9:03 pm

Reply to this

Let's se.....one F is attacking public school teachers...
=====================

Bullshit demogoguery spin - your stock and trade, Shtka.

I say that bad ones exist and we need to get rid of them, and that we should not encourage political and nepotisitic hiring.

What do say about the issue? Not about me, about the issue, S?

more candidates using the word "privacy" instead of "choice" - we are finally getting some political sense.

It was good to hear the word "impeach"

Hey Paine,

No worries, I had a lovely time in New England. I think Thankful is back there now so you may be hearing from her.

I had a nice dinner with donna on Saturday off the Magnificent Mile. Nice little French bistro. Love that baked elephant garlic clove!

Next time, buddy. Have to take a trip soon to see my new grand niece, Amelia, born last week.

Travis Smiley is the only worthwhile moderator IMO anywho

This blog just kills me, how it jumps around. For months now. I knew I should have driven over there when I was in Vermont. I would have fixed it myself because obviously no one at DFA knows how to do it.

I forgot got that one of the stops in the wildebeast's never ending circle is "choice."

Thankful's well.  Saw her friday? 

Garlic~)  ...comfort food.

The CMWs have given the debate to Clinton.

Clinton/Obama Fix. In.

God, I hope I'm wrong. 

All of them, except possibly Clinton, are by far better than the repugs. 

privacy" instead of "choice" - we are finally getting some political sense

> very astute observation, Fred.

Hey, folks...the Dem candidates are for PRIVACY in relation to abortion.  I think it works.

Abortion isn't even an issue beyond the primaries. Each party has to use the right words to appease their base. But after that, it's dead until the next election cycle. 

The GOP has sure turned the immigration issue into a hate-filled and bitter subject.   Someone predicted every bit of it back in 2005.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1338

All of them, except possibly Clinton, are by far better than the repugs. 

>

Even her, Seashell.  You'll see.  haha hehe.

Good going DFA.  You suggested, and we made the calls.  I called Reid and said he should remove Feinstein from the committee and now let's hope CA removes her from the Senate.

Clinton didn't answer the question asked by the mother whose son has done 3 tours.

She doesn't want to raise the cap.  She wants to form a committee.

Other things trouble me greatly about her.   She's evasive, became defensive tonight and I thought  was polishing her image, not telling us what she's really thinking.

SS cap

make a donut hole...tax to a point, then no SS tax to a point where the tax kicks in again to infinity.

9.Sitka

I forgot got that one of the stops in the wildebeast's never ending circle is "choice."

===============

Eloquent bull schtika, but once you leave Naral-ville, privacy is just as true but more universally digestible, and not offensive to women who would never have one.

15.

Imn2Paine
============

Thanks, Paine. After 30 years of bull, we are finally getting astute for all the voters, even the Religious Right. It is a 50 State strategy.

Clinton didn't have a particularly good debate, but none of them did tonight on my scorecard, no "winner", but no loser either.

I was glad the audience got to ask the questions at the end becaue we got to some real issues in a straightforward way the media avoids.

10.Imn2Paine

Hey, folks...the Dem candidates are for PRIVACY in relation to abortion. I think it works.
===============

It is not only good politics. It is more technically correct than any other term, euphemism or not. Roe v. Wade was decided on the issue of privacy, and viability, to a lesser extent.

Richardson gave the best answer on the judges question.

The audience part was like a typical Iowa event and they are used to being asked real questions instead of "you and him fight" or "gotcha" questions favored by the media.

I consider it a qualified field with broad choices and considerable differences and they all have to like the fact that in such a big field no one has pulled away and garnered a majority. It is a wide open race.

The GOP has sure turned the immigration issue into a hate-filled and bitter subject.   Someone predicted every bit of it back in 2005.

It sure didn't do them any more good than flag-burning or abortion in the last election.

All of them, except possibly Clinton, are by far better than the repugs.

Bear in mind that whichever one secures the nomination, that person will immediately begin talking a lot more like a Republican.

I wasn't aware til this week that the current generation numbers 83 million to the boomers 78, and it is just a matter of time til Social Security takes care of itself with minor adjustments, medicare is a whole different ball of wax with the rapid escalation of medical costs.

I thought Biden and Dodd were "better" than Obama and Edwards. 

I thought Dennis was in tune with progressives,  but will not increase his piece of the pie. 

Gravel was excluded again...probably for being so nasty to the others.  Gravel should run for the Senate again.

the immigration issue can morph into a negative on the repulican's ownership society

I thought Biden and Dodd were "better" than Obama and Edwards

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I would agree with that assessment of who improved their position relative to where they were.

Is CNN replating the Debate?  I think so.

paine since I'm the slow one I'll wait a decent interval before answering your cogent posts

$#$#$%@# BLOG CLOCK

11:02

&^%$*(#@ I can't %^&*$#((! believe this $%^&!!!!!

No matter how much Hillary ^%$&*@* sucks, these effing talking heads claim she 'won' the debate!!!  Are they watching the same debates everyone lese is????  What the F is wrong with these people.

Kucinich had the biggest round of applause when he spoke of impeachemnt and effing blowhard, Wolf Blitzer cut him off!

WAKE UP, AMERICA!!! 

32.

Imn2Paine
=================

Biden was good, implants or not. If people started voting with their brains instead of their celebrity glitter instincts, Biden could take Iowa.

Sheesh, they began by parading the Dems  like race horses

I think Hillary's been watching Ellen's daytime show to try to emulate her humor style.

these effing talking heads

got that right.

I guess I'm missing something. Why do so many people get so worked up about the blog clock --  surely they don't need it to tell the time?

And as for the mixed up posts, I have no trouble out what's being satd in response to what.

This blog has always been cheap, screwy, and a pain in the butt. It just wouldn't be natural or familiar if it was good one that worked right. 

But carry on with the complaining. Maybe it will make a difference in the next life 

I know there is no law against thes effin blowhards voicing their opinions, but holy cheesus!!!  Isn't there one employed individual on ANY station that views these debates objectively or even with a Progressive eye?

Obama hit it on the head with Hillary's "middle class" definition, which would include her "poor" friends struggling to pay the mortgage on to their summer shack in Chataqua, NY (an exclusive rural community)

Fred from last thread -- don't throw stones at teachers till you've spent a year in a public school classroom. Admittedly I have not done so inn 30 years but back then it was HARD WORK. Keeping 30 little darlings from killing each other and on top of that actually teaching them something is challenging. Add to that, in today's world, you don't even have crayons or scissors or paper for them -- they have to buy their own. And from what I hear the classrooms are crumbling, etc, etc. As I said don't blame the teachers till you've walked a mile in their shoes.

As for the debate I watched 93% of it and I thought Biden did the best, Hill did a good job, Obama isn't in his 'element' there. Tonight my heart is with Obama and my head is with Biden and whatever is between my heart and my head, my neck I guess, is with Chris Dodd.

Guess I will go be a pumpkin -- nitie all.

Alan Zitz

> Yes, Travis Smiley.

Sheesh, they began by parading the Dems  like race horses

I always thought of these phoney and rigged events as dog shows. 

What channel is he on?

This may sound weird to some people (especially those who like to stereotype) but I find much similarity between Kucinich and Biden, especially in rhetorical style.

As I said don't blame the teachers till you've walked a mile in their shoes.

Gotta blame somebody for your problems.

Is it just me, or does Kucinich seem to be the only one that speaks straight, answers questions directly, and ultimately for the American people?

I know he seems unelectable because he is painted as an extremist, but according to the polls, he is on the side of the majority without equivocation on nearly EVERY issue!

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/

^ Tavis Smiley

Dodd had a good night and so did Biden, and the biggest aplause line was Dennis and the Impeachment line. Obama got his "I can work with Republicans" line in, Edwards worked the us Democrats against the Washington system, and Clinton played the gender card by denying it.

I don't think it changed much, maybe tightened the field a smidgen.

Thanks...is he on any channel right now talking about his opinion on the debate?

Just finished watching the debate. 

Mike, congratulations ..... very studley!  WOOT!

I agree about Dodd/Biden being better than Obama/Edwards.

I also agree with "effing talking heads" who said Hillary did very well {{ducking}

She did well this evening and clearly had a lot of support in the audience. 

and though I can't disagree with most of what Kucinich said....still just don't take to that guy for some reason.

*** cChalfonte***
Thu, 11/15/07
11:11 pm

Please explain to me what you liked about Hillary tonight...maybe its my bias, but I just thought she couldn't answer with a direct answer, and would seemingly put up some slogan istead of offering real reform...or her idea of reform was Republican-Lite.

Seiously, please explain your point of view to me. 

I agree, Alan.  It's disgraceful how the CMWs will not give credit.  Biden also was good tonight.   I rather like him.

She did well this evening and clearly had a lot of support in the audience. 

> Someone said Kucinich got the biggest gas(in a good way) from the audience.  Well, I thought it was Clinton.   

BTW, I don't support Kucinich because he seems a bit myopic and inexperienced on economic issues, and I don't think he would necessarily be a great diplomatic representative bvecause of his myopia.

The key thing to watch for in this debate was to see if Edwards or Obama could keep her on the ropes as they had put her there in the last one.  They failed....she deflected them deftly. 

She looked like a leader....they looked petty and peevish. 

The "heads" were right.  This one was Hillary's.  I can't say how important this particular debate was in the larger picture.

Anyone looking to see real policy discussed in these "debates" will be clearly disappointed. 

...I really don't support any of them, to tell the ruth...there is nobody on either GOP or Dems that speak for the people right now and could effectively lead

...once again, the Ameican people are given numerous terrible choices to choose from... 

And Wolf is a poor moderator.  I liked the first few minutes when there was true exchange and tempers a bit high.  And Clinton called it mud slinging which it wasn't but the CMWs picked up the words and ran with them. 

I wonder how many people Clinton had to pay to show up and boo anyone who tried to distinguish themself from her.  The moderators slapped their hands by not calling on them for quite a long time, which gave others a choice to wax poetic. 

*** cChalfonte***
Thu, 11/15/07
11:20 pm

I heard that from the spjn doctors, but I don't agree.  First, I don't believe that is teh goal of teh debate, 2nd, I thought they all did a great job, and Hillary (IMO) probaly has some paid staff in the audience booing anyone that stands against her to feed the impression that you speak of.

Is that the basis on which you think she 'won'?  What about the issues,,,do you you think she stands on the side of the Party and Americans, or do you think it doesnm't matter in teh debate? 

The key thing to watch for in this debate was to see if Edwards or Obama could keep her on the ropes as they had put her there in the last one.  They failed....she deflected them deftly

>

IMO it was Timmy "a man of the people" Russert kept Clinton on the ropes, and he wasn't invited to this show, tonight.

 probaly has some paid staff

>

Delete.  Facts?  None.

choice/chance ... they both start with c so I get a brownie.  LOL

"do you you think she stands on the side of the Party and Americans,"

Yes, I do.  Actually, I believe that Dodd, Biden, Edwards, Richardson and Kucinich stand on the side of the Democratic Party and Americans. ....though they need some flogging from time to time.

I believe that the Republican Party as become very unAmerican, actually. 

Where I thought Hillary blew it, and Obama kicked her ass was on raising the cap on SS taxes...he pointed out that it was only 6% of the poulation that would have their taxes raised, and she lied about the numbers, and insisted it would be a tax on the middle class--she was totally out of touch with the facts, and lied ontop of it.  To me, that speaks to the heart of the Clinton campaign

Let's see....facts........let's see........how about the plant this last week who even winked after her question?  Clinton wants to win, any way she can.

The boos were ohoh oh so obviously planted.  Gut feeling.

I really liked Dodd tonight.  But they all did well, except for Clinton, and Obama was a bit rambling. 

Loved that they all stood firm on privacy and refused to accept Twitzer's framing.

Not a big Richardson fan but thought it was kinda cute when he asked DK to quit including him in "these votes".  "I've been a governor"! 

Alan, agree completely.

70.  $95k/year IS a middle-class income in California, New York.

In addition, when the army guy asked the question about continuing into Iran, she said something to the effect of:

"As you know from being in Iraq, the Iranians have a hand in IEDs andother explosive devices..." 

There has been no physical proof of this AT ALL!!!  This is aGOP talking point that has, as usual, no basis in fact...yet she parrots it unchallenged.

Alan Zitz

> I don't think it was a great a blunder as you would have it, but I liked how Obama addressed the point.

Point Obama.  Not set.  Not match.  Everyone lives for another day.

It's per person, not for a family.  $56K is middle class in New York and California...$95K is the dual income middle class.

"There has been no physical proof of this AT ALL!!! "

Yes, there has.  This has come out in the press numerous times.  Many of the components in IED's have been sourced to Iran.

"As you know from being in Iraq, the Iranians have a hand in IEDs andother explosive devices..." 

There has been no physical proof of this AT ALL!!! 

>

Maybe... it's the Chinese or Russians?   Hezbollah or Hamas?

"The boos were ohoh oh so obviously planted."  Gut feeling.  Wishful thinking based on personal bias.

...the cap is $87K per person income, and anything over that does not pay more SS tax...If 2 middle class people in New York and California are making $60K each, all of both of their income is taxed for SS...If one person is making $120K, only $87K is taxed for SS.

I don't know what Clintonesque facts you are quoting...please post where in the entire world that a single middle class earner makes $87K

oh so obviously planted.  Gut feeling.

>

I'm a tad cross-eyed, help.

*** cChalfonte***
Thu, 11/15/07
11:37 pm

Yes it has been in the press...presented with NO physical evidence, but with White House reports 

Still, that's no excuse for her to vote to give putz, in essence, carte blanche.  He'll use it.  Or Israel will.

It's media hype.

70, 000 - 140, 000

^ middle class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class#US_middle_class

Yes it has been in the press...presented with NO physical evidence, but with White House reports 

>

 'll give ya that much.

Imn2Paine
Thu, 11/15/07
11:41 pm

You are referring to dual income, not single income which is what SS taxes...see link above from Wikipedia:

"In 2005 the top 15% of income earners (age 25+) had incomes exceeding $62,500.["

$87k is not really living large in California or New York if you are supporting a family.

"Clintonesque facts" is a Rovian phrase/frame. Shame on ya.

Anyway, got to get ready for work tomorrow.  TGIF.

Congrats again Iron Mike. 

Night, good peeps.

"Yes it has been in the press...presented with NO physical evidence, but with White House reports "

No, I've seen reports from US military in Iraq identifying parts made in Iran.

Now, really, g'nite. 

No, I've seen reports from US military in Iraq identifying parts made in Iran.

They can't be trusted any more than those who tell them what to do. 

You are referring to dual income

>

You assume I was referring.  I actually speculated that that income isn't all that much.  I'll take the $140 but ...

*Bush 'intends" to present evidence in January:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16825943/

*Gates makes 'assertions' 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17064803/

Most recent report of military pushing troops to invent connections with Iran:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2209036,00.html

 According to a "privately contracted interrogator working for American forces in Iraq, near the Iranian border," U.S. intelligence activities in Iraq are skewed to find incriminating evidence against Iran. Micah Brose told The Observer that U.S. officials "push a lot for us to establish a link with Iran. They have pre-categories for us to go through...

http://www.prwatch.org/node/6704 

Night cC

Fred too

*** cChalfonte***
Thu, 11/15/07
11:45 pm

nonetheless, a fact is a fact...I lived in California for 30 years, and $87K for a single income is definitely in the upper 10% of income 

...oh...and 'US Lack sEvidence..."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IA18Ak02.html 

*** cChalfonte***
Thu, 11/15/07
11:46 pm

I posted my evidence...where is yours? 

49.

Annilow
Thu, 11/15/07
11:03 pm

Reply to this

Fred from last thread -- don't throw stones at teachers till you've spent a year in a public school classroom.

================

Your cult mentality is telling you "when they attack one of us, they attack all of us, right or wrong"

I never attacked ALL teachers, so cut the badmouth crap about me. Many professions have such cult mentalities, like police, firefighters and medical professionals, but unlike those professions, people are not confronted with the problems of the bad ones on a daily basis with our kids, like they are with bad teachers.

So stock insinuating false statements about me, and stop covering for bad teachers. There are good and bad in all professions but the bad ones in teaching never go away or get fired, and we don't often have a choice when our kids are stuck with one. Worst of all, we have to pay for that abuse with our taxes.

 " Explosive charge blows up in US's face"

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ27Ak05.html 

Night Paine

Gotta get on here in the east.

Be good all.

Here, Cc...I'll post your 'evidence' for you from the Department of Defense:

There asserion in February:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=3052

The truth in November:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=48157

Gates said he had no solid proof that Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, was aware that parts for explosively formed penetrators, the most deadly form of roadside bomb, had been flowing from Iran into Iraq. “I haven’t seen anything definitive along those lines,” Gates said.

Nothing definitive Cc...absiolutely NO PROOF...from the Dept. of Defense itself. 

49.Annilow

Fred from last thread -- don't throw stones at teachers till you've spent a year in a public school classroom.
===============

I spent 10 years off and on sub teaching in Newark. I saw despicable teachers and principles with jobs, while I met many good dedicated teachers that also substituted, even with a certificate, because they did not have family or political connections to get a job.

I saw how difficult teaching can be, and that it take a very special person with a very special savoir faire to reach some of the kids.

I don't know what kind of teacher I would have been full time, but I could have gotten a full time job anytime I wanted if I had a certificate, because I had relatives in the system, and a legacy of political friends from my deceased father.

It's spin to justify attacking Iran.  No brainer.  To trust anything putz says is foolish.

When the military starts looking like our savior, we’d better look out. 11/16

Oh my!  Lookie who's cutting and running from putzie.

"I supported our original mission, which was humanitarian in nature and limited in scope. I can no longer support a continued United States presence ... because the nature of the mission is now unrealistic and because the scope of our mission is now limitless. . . Mr. President, it is no small feat for a superpower to accept setback on the world stage, but a step backward is sometimes the wisest course. I believe that withdrawal is now the more prudent option."

-- Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX)

My bad.  I hadn't read the whole article.  This is a quote while BC was prez. 

Alan Zitz

nonetheless, a fact is a fact...I lived in California for 30 years, and $87K for a single income is definitely in the upper 10% of income
=================

It depends on where you live, how you live, what you wear, what you drive, and what you do for leisure.

Regular readers know my frustration with what I previously deemed The Great Education Myth in an op-ed for the San Francisco Chronicle. This myth, omniscient in our media and political debate, states that America's problem with stagnating wages, job loss and benefits cuts is a problem of education. If only workers were better educated, the myth goes, their economic problems would be over.

This myth, which is a lobbyist creation designed to divert political pressure away from reforming labor, trade and economic policies, was most recently vomited up by a top editor and "expert" at one of the largest magazines in America - and then obliterated by government data and at least one leading presidential candidate.

107.

seashell :-)
==================

She was also one of the early supporters of Biden's federalization proposal for Iraq.

I wonder why the dem leaders don't have 3 foot long noses when they talk about pulling our troops out.

Maya Schenwar | Withdrawal Not Required in Iraq Funding Bill
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111507R.shtml
Truthout's Maya Schenwar reports: "The House of Representatives passed a bill Wednesday night that aims for a major withdrawal of troops from Iraq by next December, but that promise rides on the back of a $50 billion check to continue war operations. Moreover, the plan sets December 2008 as a "goal" for redeployment, instead of establishing it as a firm deadline."

Everybody in bed?  OK, me too.  :-)

OK, back for a wee bit.

John Nichols: *Biden, Kucinich, Iran, and Impeachment When it comes to the question of impeachment, the difference between Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman Joe Biden and Department of Peace champion Dennis Kucinich is merely a matter of timing.

David Swanson: Wolf Blitzer Loses Democratic Debate That does it. It's time for the Democratic Party to stage its own debate, ask its own questions, and offer the video to networks as a completed package. Allowing CNN to not just air a debate but to ask the questions proved on Thursday night (even more dramatically than in the past) to be a soul sickening disaster.

114 is well worth the read and amusing. 

Jack Cafferty should be a moderator.   

Bob Koehler: Baghdad in Middle America The war on terror is hell, and every soldier is coming back with post-traumatic stress disorder.

I remember when Canada was a humane and progressive country.  Whatever putz has must be contagious.

Aaron Glantz: Canada Rules Against AWOL Soldiers Two U.S. Army deserters who fled to Canada and sought refugee status on grounds of their opposition to the war in Iraq have lost their bids to have the Supreme Court of Canada hear their cases.

And bush/cheney hold hands with these despots.

Saudis punish gang rape VICTIM with 200 lashes he 19-year-old woman -- whose six armed attackers have been sentenced to jail terms -- was initially ordered to undergo 90 lashes for "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape," the Arab News reported. But in a new verdict issued after Saudi Arabia's Higher Judicial Council ordered a retrial, the court in the eastern town of Al-Qatif more than doubled the number of lashes to 200.

200 lashes will kill this woman.

**************************** 

Goodbye, Mr. Bush Despite the obvious shortcomings of his policies,he has startlingly succeeded in reshaping the executive into an unaccountable imperial presidency.And Bush's presidency is now accepted as the only acceptable version for major Repub candidates who aspire to succeed him.All of them have pledged to extend its arbitrary powers.Their embrace of the imperial presidency makes the 2008 election a turning point in constitutional gov't

***************************

I've not heard the *leading 3* say anything about restoring power to the people.  And Çlinton will also expand authority IMO.   I've never heard her say anything notable about rule of law and protecting the Constitution.  She's way too hungry to be a good prez, and already corrupt....IMO

bob jones: Israeli legislature votes to seize East Jerusalem (3 comments)

...and Congress appears to just let this happen.

***************************** 

"His delusional state is his personal misfortune -- that so many among us are duped by his grotesque distortions of reality is a national tragedy. Bush is a power-drunk psychopath ready to concoct a false-flag event, declare martial law and "postpone" the 2008 elections. Like Pakistan's General Pervez Musharraf, he'll then suspend Congress and designate himself sovereign ruler during the "temporary emergency."

To avert this calamity it is essential that Congress impeach both Bush and Cheney, remove them from office and turn them over to the International Court of Justice at the Hague for prosecution for their crimes against humanity."

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=4879 

Now bed..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

"Yes it has been in the press...presented with NO physical evidence, but with White House reports "

No, I've seen reports from US military in Iraq identifying parts made in Iran.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If Made in the USA on military hardware found in a country was a cause for war we would have 175 countries coming after us. sadly more of ours would be official transfers rather than arms dealers, but of course Iranian weapons have found there way into a war zone next door in the last five years

one of the reasons for a push to war are weapons systems testing and Iranian's arms suppliers might just be looking for a test of theirs

we had better watch what we wish for in confronting Iran

Clinton stood alone on that issue last night.

to me that was the most important part of the debate

America deserves better than a choice of two War Party members

DFA does deserve some of the credit for the Feinstein reversal.

How about I give a HOWARDLY to the whole gang?

thanks all

and thank you Senator Dodd for your hold that brought this issue front and center

Obama won the UAW endorsement. They are one group that does deliver bodies to the caucus.

I'd call him the favorite by a nose if it was held next week, but it is still a three way tie within the margin. 

Good morning, everybody

One of the interesting out-takes on the Sicko DVD is a longish conversation with the British MP who's long been a socialist.  He's got some good framing for the health care issue.

But, he's also got some good points about the impact of democracy on the old order--the ability of the people to throw the government out with their ballots instead of bullets.

There's no question in my mind that the primary purpose of handing public functions over to private corporations, including the telecommunications corporations, was to remove these functions from public review and inspection.  I think we've sort of missed that the conservative objection to "big government" wasn't to the level of control and the arena of influence, but rather to the number of people--i.e. all of the people--in charge.  What we consider a virtue, they consider a vice.  They'll concede us the ballot, if they can control everything else, either directly or through their corporate surrogates.

If you follow this argument, then John Edwards' attack on the corporations is misplaced. It isn't the corporations who have currupted the congress; it's the congress which has suborned corporations to do the dirty work that our representatives don't want the public to be aware of.

That's why this immunity thing is such a big deal.  If corporations can be held accountable for their mis-deeds, then there's nowhere for our agents of government to hide.

big government = government by the people

immunity = no accountability

control our borders = put up a taco curtain

national ID = restrict travel

cut taxes = bribe to insure silence

119.  Bush didn't do it by himself.  The congress was totally complicit.  Privatization was designed to take public functions out of the arena where they could be reviewed in public, by the public that pays for them.

Remember that "he who pays the piper calls the tune."  The purpose of reducing the number and kinds of functions the public pays for with taxes is to support the argument that "since you don't pay, you don't get to have a say."

I wonder if Barack Obama knows that he's buying into that perspective when he promises to reduce our taxes.

Why would the American people want to restrict their government to just two functions, "law enforcement and the war on terror"? 

A few quick thoughts on the debate last nite..I only saw a few bits of if it, but Id say Obama won it...........his "appearance" was very good and demeanor excellant.........he looked strong, focused and determined  Grade B

The make up artists for most of the rest deserve an F.......those guys and Hillary looked TERRIBLE.........Romney an the orhers will pounce upon this, of course Mccain looks old and frail too........

Biden with those meanful beady tight slit eyes.....scary      Grade D

Hillary.....another woman trying to look 15 years younger with too much makeup  Grade C-

Kucinich.........not too bad, again the lighting was bad   Grade C+

Dodd.........mean, grey...reminds you of that mean old Grandpa you had  Grade C-

Richardson.......natural tan made him look good actually  Grade C

Edwards........looked good, of course I cant imagine what he paid his hairstylist and make up artist   Grade B-

126. & 127.

Monica Smith


GOOD STUFF!

The debate, especially in Vegas should have been a poker tournament. More entertaining and a good way to see how a candidate thinks. Also does away w/ the need for Woof Blister andthe woofettes.
The way it was, I thought the top 3 got lost in a pi--ing contest. Biden, Dodd and Richardson looked great. Off to work Happy Friday.

I'm considering attempting a marathon in Feb. What have I got to lose?

___________________________________________________________________________

well sitka,

I admire anyone in "our" age range (Im 51 also) attemping such things as long as they have checked with their Dr and had a proper physical........example, at Ironman Florida  a 44 woman died on the swim, thats 2 years in a row somone has died there..........

Im no exercise expert, but do believe in small doses it is good for the health of the mond as well as body........a marathon in February you say? Depending on your goal I hope you have begun some sort of training.......trust me, 26.2 miles on foot does seem endless at times but it is achievable to even the worst of those in shape........

Good luck and let me know if you need any advice or just to chat..........side note, during IMFLA on the marathon I would chatt occasionally with spectators, one guy and family I asked if he ever watched 'Lost In Space" (from the 60s)..he said yes and I said that what Dr Smith used to say is true right now......."Oh the pain.....the pain".

My LTE of the day. 

Obama and Edwards pre-planned strategy to contrast themselves with Clinton did not work out. But the audience got to questions that led to real differentiation if viewers followed along til the end.

I am still very troubled by Hillary's stance on Iran.

a reading of the transcript might find Richardson most in line with my politics

the reaction of the audience to any kind of attack politics was clear and anyone that starts going there in Iowa is going to lose

for decades pick up basketball was my exercise of choice, but I quit league play when I turned 40

some things like sprinting up and down a court are for kids

a cousin of mine rode a bike across the country and the rockies about did him in

I have to make special deer hunts just for him because his knees have never been the same

you have been an inspiration for us bloggers though Mike, keep it up

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/vehicles_health/biofuels-low-carbon-diet.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Obama's fixation on liquid coal is my problem with him at the moment.

the Union of Concerned Scientists have made a report, linked above

Hey driving by - much to do - Phil agree DFA should do more of the 'lobbying' like lobbying Feinstein. Fred, OK you definitely earned your stripes w/ 10 years in Newark. I agree that the booing/cheering last night was out of order b/c candidates could plant booers/cheerers. Makeup man (Michael comment I think) was AWFUL. Off to Palatka and the 'woods'. It's COLD in N FL this morning - we have a freeze warning tonight. Ok, where did I put my long pants?

the cold front is going to make it to Cuba

pretty much ends the hurricane season

travel looks really messy next week, travel mercies to all

Hillary has never broken 30% here but lif opposition is all over the place and divided multiple ways  30% could "win"; but a candidate that well known should never get the Denver nomination without 50% plus of fairly won delegates

later states will be in play this year

Comments (2)

Their adulation was such that he was being offered the rare honour of a Congressional Gold Medal.

Naturally enough, Bush and his administration were hugely grateful for Blair's decision to join the United States in its invasion of Iraq.

Scroll down for more ...

Under fire: Dr Kelly being quizzed by MPs

• Click here for Part Two of Norman Baker's shocking investigation
• Iraq whistleblower Dr Kelly WAS murdered to silence him, says MP

That invasion was supposed to lead to the discovery and disposal of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and make the world a safer place.

But as Blair was lapping up the grateful plaudits from the U.S. Congress on July 17, 2003, the man who had done more than almost any other individual on earth to contain the threat from WMD lay dead in the woods at Harrowdown Hill in Oxfordshire.

For Dr David Kelly, the UK's leading weapons inspector, there was to be no adulation, no medal, no standing ovation.

His life ended in the cold, lonely wood where he was found the next morning, his left wrist cut open, and three nearly-empty blister packs of painkillers in his jacket pocket.

His death was, of course, sensational front-page news. Dr Kelly, unknown to almost everybody at the beginning of that July, had in recent days barely been absent from media headlines.

Much to his chagrin he had been thrust into the harsh glare of publicity, accused of being the mole who expressed to the BBC deep concerns about the Government's "sexing up" of its dossier on weapons of mass destruction.

For Blair - accused of misusing, exaggerating or even inventing intelligence in order to justify the overthrow of Saddam Hussein - the stakes could not have been higher.

This was undoubtedly the greatest crisis of his premiership to date.

To add fuel to the flames, his director of communications, Alastair Campbell, had launched an unprecedented and vitriolic attack on the BBC, questioning its integrity and professionalism in the way it reported the story.

Suddenly finding himself under tremendous personal pressure, it seemed that Dr Kelly had buckled and decided to commit suicide.

That, at least, was the official version of events, as decided by the Hutton inquiry, set up by the Government with lightning speed within hours of Dr Kelly's body being found.

The media, the political establishment, indeed almost everybody accepted Lord Hutton's verdict. But the more I examined it, the more it became clear to me that Hutton's judgment was faulty and suspect in virtually all important respects.

I was not alone in these suspicions. Letters began to appear in the press from leading medical specialists, in which they queried the suicide verdict.

The letters were well argued, raising profound and disturbing questions that remain unanswered to this day.

Increasingly concerned, I decided to give up my post on the Liberal Democrat front bench to look into Dr Kelly's death.

My investigations have since convinced me that it is nigh- on clinically impossible for Dr Kelly to have died by his own hand and that both his personality and the other circumstantial evidence strongly militate against suicide.

Scroll down for more ...

i thought the debate was a circus. is this the first one where the moderator didn't ask the audience to shut up? funny that only hill's people booed--at party events if anyone boos a motion, or statement, or issue, or whatever, its always the hill wing of the party that boo-hoo's who's ever booing.

why doesn't dennis ever speak out about gravel being excluded?

edwards used the "its not personal..." mini-speech twice in the debate. the media only cited the second time and tried to make it appear a weak response to hill's slam.

did you see biden roll his eyes at richardson's out now? richardson's starting to look like jack nicholson's president character in "mars attacks" to me. "why can't we just all get along..."

did dennis get any time after the impeach remark???

dodd's centrist side was on display.

biden's centrist-i know better side was on display.

obama just needs to spit it out. his failing was more in delivery than substance.

hill looked smug to me. the iranian stuff was way over the top. interesting that obama admitted that it was a mistake to have not voted on that resolution and why.

i don't think anyone "won" that mess. but, nevadans appear to be a rough crowd. no surprise here.

Phil Specht
Fri, 11/16/07
8:19 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks Phil.......only question is , whats left for somebody like me?  I dont see myself retiring to the golf course or shuffleboard lawn.........please dont say.......... English channel?

retirement? what's that? i'll work until i'm dead.

Fox wrote “you completely avoided discussing your inability to acknowledge ANY success in Iraq. I am under no illusion the fight ahead is long and hard. That, for your file, is a realistic attitude. I do not respond with any posting of success with five postings of U S deaths. That is you. Think what that means. It is really sad. And you have found a niche of kindred souls all thinking they have found the way. Why is mentioning success and progress a reason for every one here getting ANGRY?? It is strange, if you are cheering for the home team, don't you think.”

I’m not angry and I didn’t post any news of American deaths. I don’t mind discussing this, but your rabid posts are huge, seething, cut and paste, party line screeds, and you make up shit. It’s not conducive to a dialogue.

The original source of this conversation was Keith Olbermann’s failure to mention Iraq news on his show for a month because, in your argument, any news he would cover would be good. My contention was that Americans think the war is going well in direct proportion to the absence of news coverage concerning it.

This raises a couple of things. First, there’s no need to assume I wallow in news of American loss of life, any more than there’s a need to assume I get hyped up about Iraqi body counts. The mounting military and civilian casualties are the most profound tragedy of the conflict.

There’s an obvious problem with your description of success in Iraq, which is why I initially asked for your definition of it. From your polemical responses, it appears to be some reduction in the violence or U.S. casualty rates. If this is true, withdrawing U.S. forces will have the most dramatic effect on this trend. If it’s just securing and controlling the occupied areas by force, then I think your judgment is mistaken, because the insurgent movement is germinating under the occupation, has been for years, and has been fomented in the region because the U.S. has not been an honest broker there for decades. For there to be success by this definition, we’re going to have to simply occupy Iraq for our remaining days, and hope to more or less contain the inevitable outbreaks of violence in perpetuity. This victory would be pyrrhic in the extreme.

Please report back to us when we win this asymmetrical war. You see, we don’t have any way of knowing it’s been won because we aren’t fighting an army or a nation. The enemy is a group of guerilla militants who despise our presence and policies in the region, and are willing to sacrifice their own lives and the innocent lives of others in opposition to it. There won’t be anyone handing an American general a sword on a pillow.

Obama won the UAW endorsement. They are one group that does deliver bodies to the caucus.

Iowa Local 234 of the International Union of Operating Engineers (2,300 members) ...Endorsed Gephardt Oct. 27, 2003

2004 Iowa Caucuses. Gephardt 10.6%

Endorsements don't mean a thing. 

It has all the hallmarks of a concerted effort—the corporate media, in particular Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly, are attacking Ron Paul and the 9/11 truth movement at the very moment H.R. 1955, entitled the “Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007″ (although more accurately entitled the Thought Crime Bill) inches its way toward the Senate, having passed the House of Representatives, that is to say the house of corporate and neocon whores in the District of Criminals. As if to send a strident message they mean business, a Ministry of Homeland Security subcommittee on “terrorism risk assessment” went out of its way on November 6 to conflate so-called jihad terrorism—you know, terrorism engineered by the CIA—with 9/11 truth.

“Under the guise of a bill that calls for the study of ‘homegrown terrorism,’ Congress is apparently trying to broaden the definition of terrorism to encompass both First Amendment political activity and traditional forms of protest such as nonviolent civil disobedience, according to civil liberties advocates, scholars and historians,” writes Jessica Lee. “Many observers fear that the proposed law will be used against U.S.-based groups engaged in legal but unpopular political activism, ranging from political Islamists to animal-rights and environmental campaigners to radical right-wing organizations. There is concern, too, that the bill will undermine academic integrity and is the latest salvo in a decade-long government grab for power at the expense of civil liberties.”

Of course, “political Islamists,” at least here in America, are too intimidated—thanks to the Palmeresque round-up and sadistic abuse of Muslims in the wake of September 11, 2001—to be of serious concern to the neocon-hijacked government. Many of the “animal-rights and environmental campaigners” fall into the category of the big foundation controlled opposition and do not sincerely pose a threat to the neocon “clash of civilizations” agenda abroad and the orchestrated attack against the Bill of Rights at home.

In fact, the only serious threat to the neocons and their neolib partners in crime emanates from the patriot and 9/11 truth movements—and that is why, as increasing numbers of patriotic and politically diverse Americans rally around the Ron Paul presidential campaign, we are witnessing increasingly virulent and desperate attacks against Paul, who is now absurdly conflated with “Islamo-fascist” terrorists.

H.R. 1955 is scary because it does not target actual terrorists but rather “extremist belief systems” and “is not necessarily about violence” but rather the potential “use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence,” according to Alejandro Queral, executive director of the Northwest Constitutional Rights Center. “What is an extremist belief system? Who defines this? These are broad definitions that encompass so much…. It is criminalizing thought and ideology.”

H.R. 1955 is a “form of prior restraint,” explains David Price, a professor of anthropology at St. Martin’s University who studies government surveillance and harassment of dissident scholars. It will prevent people from petitioning the government, lest they find themselves equated with terrorists.

Kamau Franklin, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights, is concerned the bill will be used to target peaceful protests. Franklin believes the “Commission’s broad mandate can lead to the ability to turn civil disobedience, a form of protest that is centuries old, into a terrorist act,” thus making it possible “that someone who would have been charged with disorderly conduct or obstruction of governmental administration may soon be charged with a federal terrorist statute…. My biggest fear is that they [the commission] will call for some new criminal penalties and federal crimes…. Activists are nervous about how the broad definitions could be used for criminalizing civil disobedience.”

“There are all sorts of things that activists do that involve little or no risk of hurting people, but their actions get labeled as violent, or even worse, as acts of terrorism,” explains Bron Taylor, a professor at University of Florida. “For example, if 10 activists push themselves into a congressperson’s regional office, make noise, pull out files and make a scene, is that an act of terrorism? It is quite possible that the act could scare the hell out of the secretary and office workers because they don’t know these people or what they intend to do? But is that terrorism? Some people would like to frame it that way.”

Indeed, no doubt “some people” would like to characterize We Are Change—infamous for confronting Giuliani, Romney, Biden, the neocon grand dragon Podhoretz and others—as a terrorist organization that needs to be arrested en masse and shipped to Camp Gitmo or one of those CIA torture dungeons in Poland or Jordan.

“One of the most useful tools for political campaigns today is the use of the internet,” writes Anthony Merola. “Certainly we can see how this has been used over the last few months as Congressmen Paul, as well as other candidates, has used the internet to spread their messages and appeal to new voters, but don’t worry, HR 1955 has taken care of this,” as H.R. 1955 declares the “Internet has aided in facilitating ideologically-based violence and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.”

With this piece of legislation in congress, my generation will no longer be able to use the internet in a peaceful manner. All activity will certainly be logged, and every letter typed will be scrutinized by the state.

My generation has, without their knowing, been forced into a society in which we cannot choose, where we cannot think, where we cannot be free. This legislation is another step towards an Orwellian society that will create misery and despair for generations to come. We will be forced into more wars, more taxation, and more Statist welfare, and there is nothing we will be able to do to stop those in power.

That is, unless we elect Congressman Paul. Ron Paul is the only person in our government advocating for personal liberty, and for privacy rights of the Citizens of this country. Sure, Barack Obama may appeal to the youth vote. But, he has made it clear that he is just another member of the Welfare/Warfare state. He has already told us that he cannot promise our troops will be home by the end of his first term. Style and Substance are two completely different things.

Our rulers understand this as well as the youthful Anthony Merola—and that’s why they are pulling out all the stops to pass the “Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007.”

If they are able to successfully characterize Ron Paul as a terrorist and thus sabotage his political campaign, there will be no end to the state-sponsored domestic terrorism they will unleash against the American people stripped of all advocates.

opps.....wrong cut and paste:

Iowa UAW.... endorsed Gephardt Nov. 12, 2003

2004 Iowa Caucuses. Gephardt 10.6%

Endorsements don't mean a thing.

why doesn't dennis ever speak out about gravel being excluded?

For the same reason he stabbed the other anti-war candidate back in 2004. 

edwards used the "its not personal..." mini-speech twice in the debate. the media only cited the second time and tried to make it appear a weak response to hill's slam.

The only part I saw was of Edwards having to defend himself for changing his own poisitions after calling Hillary a flipflopper. 

15.  Damn, we worked hard enough to get rid of that word.

Now, if we can just get people to understand that having to take off their shoes in public is a violation of people's privacy--at least in this country.  I understand that one takes off ones shoes to enter a mosque. 

Howdy folks. mprov...only saw the first hour, my machine turned itself off after one hour.....it thought it was recording Keithie LOL....who says machines cant think?

mprov, pretty much agree with your assesment. But I think Obama always answers that way when he is being forced to give a specific answer instead of his normal generalities. That is his operation, as he proudly stated last year, be vague and allow people to form their own opinions as they want...and then you have his record to see how he will vote. He's always been uncomfortable being accountable. Edwards I think got hurt with his own medicine hitting him. He didn't expect others to go after his record, he thought he was going to be able to be the attacker...which is not a great place to be in itself.

It hurts to say, but if there were any winners, Hillary and Biden I thought did that.

And btw, what happened to DK. He looked so distraught yesterday. He looked really bad and upset. I actually felt quite sorry for him and I was so appreciative that Wolf went back to him and did allow him to answer about Pakistan and Dennis wanted.

----- Original Message -----
From: PEER
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:19 AM
Subject: Tell Congress We Can't Abide More Testing on Babies!


Whether it is waterboarding or wiretapping, the Bush administration has trouble spelling out when ethical lines are being crossed. The latest moral frontier is lack of ethical guidelines for Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) experiments on human beings using pesticides and other chemicals.

Despite the backlash from the Children's Environmental Exposure Research Study (CHEERS) in which infants were used as guinea pigs to see how much pesticide they would absorb, EPA human testing rules still allow these kind of experiments.

Despite promises to develop ethical guidelines, the agency is punting again, issuing proto-regulatory documents that contain no rules against experimentally exposing children or any other vulnerable population to potentially harmful chemicals.

Please tell Congress that it should stop EPA from conducting these monstrous experiments with your tax dollars. HERE: http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/823...


Thanks for your support,

Jeff Ruch
Executive Director

PS: EPA rules allow industry to conduct experiments on children, poor people and other vulnerable groups with very little controls (see http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row...). Join us in helping to end this plan of putting humans at risk for corporate gain.

About PEER
Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER) is a national alliance of local state and federal resource professionals. PEER’s environmental work is solely directed by the needs of its members. As a consequence, we have the distinct honor of serving resource professionals who daily cast profiles in courage in cubicles across the country.

143. Tom, a superb post!

Re: " There won’t be anyone handing an American general a sword on a pillow."

 It's more likely that Petraeus will have his ass handed to him, without benefit of Pillow.

Phil,

You being from Iowa do you think the following statements by Clinton from the pep rally last night will hurt her in Iowa?

Clinton started the night with a misfire -- joking that her pantsuit was made of asbestos, presumably so she could handle the heat. Asbestos jokes aren't funny to Iowans over 30, who had to go to schools in rundown buildings.

She suggested that popping the cap would hurt middle-class Americans and argued that in some parts of the nation (namely high-priced New York City which she represents) $97,500 isn't a lot of money. It would be interesting to hear her make that argument in Audubon County, Iowa, where the average home is worth half that much: $49,000.

http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=7E2174F42CB876A87BAB28CD50AD2714?diaryId=1471

John wrote "a superb post!"

You're kind to say so.  I think that the only people who are able to see success in Iraq at this point are people who agreed with the questionable proposition that we could have been successful by going in in the first place.  The majority of those people have rethought this thesis in reaction to events but, apparently, not all of them.

Morning,

Quick drop in.  I guess I have to say that if Clinton is the nominee, I will have a very difficutl choice depending on the Republican nominee and how much harm that individual might do.

I don't like Clinton because in many respects she's as inflexible and belligerent as Bush.  I like Obama's thinking, how he was able to see more than one perspective, though, I'm with you, Phil, his bill for coal gassification is not thought out well.  The New Yorker has an article on tar sands being converted into synthetic fuels and coal gassification.  They are very destructive processes, leaving sterile lands and poison ponds behind.

Still, Obama's mind seems to me to be the kind of mind we need.  Biden, though smart, well-intentioned, and experienced has a style that spells smart a** to me, and I find it distasteful.  He's the kid in the classroom who kept shouting out, making snide remarks, though he was bright.  I do like Richardson's sense of humor.  I like a pudgey person with experience and maturity, and he seems that way to me.  

How is it Edwards in his fifties has not a single gray hair?  Smacks of vanity to me.  But, he speaks well.  I agree with the post that Dennis Kucinich looked unhappy, downright sour, I would say.  I agree with everything he says but wonder if he has the personality to appeal to many people.

And so we go on.  Please, please don't let it be Hillary.  She is smart, tough as nails, but arrogant, inflexible, and it's corporations as usual. And, of course it wasn't a debate, just questions and answers.  It'd be interesting to have a real debate.  Still, I like Obama's mind.  I think we might have a change were he to be elected.  

And Fred, with respect to the teacher argument.  It smacks of the six people describing the elephant: all depends on personal experience.  I had the wonderful good fortune to teach with excellent teachers, who in fact, taught me all about teaching; an enlightened and creative administration; a solidarity, loyalty, and appreciation among students, colleagues, and community.  Tenure does provide for dismissal; it simply takes a dedicated, honest, and professional administration and faculty to initiate it.  And, spare us from total community control.  If you haven't noticed, there are many crazies out there that would happily destroy the system to satisfy their particular idee fixe. 

Pat wrote "I guess I have to say that if Clinton is the nominee, I will have a very difficutl choice depending on the Republican nominee and how much harm that individual might do."

Out of curiosity, what Republican nominee would you be willing to vote for instead of Clinton?

Is tomorrow [Nov 17th] Gov. Dean's birthday?

Dodd voted against the Iraq Bill today,only dem to do so. Anyone know his rationale?

The Maine sisters both voted for as did Smith from Oregon. They're running scared.

But Dodd puzzles me.

None, Tom.  I haven't seen a real Republican in years.  What I mean would be a lesser of the two evils vote where I'd be compelled to vote for, Clinton, a person who is polarizing, who will continue the corporate control of this country, who is condescending, and who is inflexible. 

Linda wrote "mprov, pretty much agree with your assesment. But I think Obama always answers that way when he is being forced to give a specific answer instead of his normal generalities."

Mark can correct me, but I don't think he was talking about any vagueness in Obama's responses, but his guardedness when giving answers, which seems to make his delivery more halting and less self-assured.

Here's dodd's rationale for voting against the Iraq bill. just like Kucinich, who also voted against it. Is this just trying to create a distinction where there isn't one. This was the Bill moving through....vote for it and hold firm to the timetable.

Dodd has pledged to not vote for any more funds for the war in Iraq unless it's tied to ending the war in Iraq. Here's Senator Dodd's statement on his vote:

"My position has been clear for months - the only way to end the war is with a firm deadline that is enforceable through funding. While I commend my colleagues in taking a step in that direction, this president's actions and continued rhetoric give me little conifidence that setting a "goal" date for redeployment will force his hand."

"I will continue to fight for a firm and enforceable deadline tied to funding to end the war and restore American security. "

Pat wrote "What I mean would be a lesser of the two evils vote where I'd be compelled to vote for Clinton, a person who is polarizing, who will continue the corporate control of this country, who is condescending, and who is inflexible."

I hear you.  I'm struggling to see how Clinton would not be Kerry redux.   

Carbon-negative bioenergy to cut global warming could drive deforestation:

An interview on BECS with Biopact's Laurens Rademakers

mongabay.com

November 6, 2007

http://news.mongabay.com/2007/1106-carbon-negative_becs.html

A proposed mechanism for generating carbon-negative bioenergy -- an energy source that reduces atmospheric carbon dioxide levels -- could drive large-scale deforestation in the tropics and undermine efforts to conserve forests for carbon offsets says a biofuel expert.

Laurens Rademakers, a natural resource management consultant and co-founder of bioenergy research group Biopact, says that the emerging concept of coupling bioenergy production with carbon capture and storage could trigger conversion of natural forests for energy crop feedstock plantations. These plantations would not only produce income from energy production but would generate carbon credits for sequestering atmospheric carbon dioxide. Rademakers says that several tropical countries -- Nigeria, Gabon, both Congos, Equatorial Guinea, Angola, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Papua New Guinea, Venezuela, Ecuador -- are especially well-suited for the scheme with large offshore sequestration sites as well as conditions conducive to industrial plantations. Rademakers fears that unless other ecosystem services beyond carbon become bankable, that "bio-energy with carbon storage" (BECS) could undermine efforts to conserve forests through an "avoided deforestation" framework currently being pushed by the World Bank, the U.N., and a coalition of rainforest nation

that's what i meant, tom.

out the door to the e-board meeting in anaheim. i'll blog a bit from there and let you guys know what's what...later

Hillary is quite a ways to the right of Kerry.

Kucinich just might be mad enough to jump to the Green Party and doom Clinton if she is the nominee.

Richardson is going to garner the anti-war vote and in doing so aid Clinton. Is he a General Clark of this cycle?

“It is no longer OK to say that Obama flat-out supports the liquefaction of coal,” David Willett, national press secretary of the Sierra Club, said. “Obama has looked at the issue more closely and has a much more detailed plan for dealing with global warming.”

http://www.cityonahillpress.com/article.php?id=800

Phil wrote "Hillary is quite a ways to the right of Kerry."

Right of who?  John Kerry, reporting for duty?  Okay.

Kucinich just might be mad enough to jump to the Green Party and doom Clinton if she is the nominee.

The Green party already has a presidential nominee--Cynthia McKinney.

Any of the Republican mental/moral pygmies has a shot at beating Hillary (remember, 50% plus of prospective voters won't vote for her under any circumstances).

Lesser evil won't cut it for a lot of us who held our noses and voted for Kerry (against Bush, really).

I won't vote for a Repug, but I won't vote for Hillary either.

If that puts some Rethug in the WH, so be it. If the Dems can't nominate a real Democrat, they'll deserve what they get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPg9MdN9Gio fema you wont belive what you hear!

In Maryland, Parents face jail and fines for not vaccinating teens for Hep B and Chickenpox booster.

Not being told of religious exemption

Hep B is the same vaccine that killed my neighbor's newborn a few years ago, and killed another baby in Newark, NJ last year in the news, by exploding veins and/or arteries in the head.

ABC Newscaster calls parents who are laxed or refuse "deliquent"

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?...

The Green party already has a presidential nominee--Cynthia McKinney.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

when was their convention? I thought she was a potential candidate for them?

“It is no longer OK to say that Obama flat-out supports the liquefaction of coal,” David Willett, national press secretary of the Sierra Club,

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I thought I heard him plug coal in the debate? transcript anywhere from last night?

79.Imn2Paine

"As you know from being in Iraq, the Iranians have a hand in IEDs andother explosive devices..."

There has been no physical proof of this AT ALL!!!

========================

This is a nebulous charge, but NOT A WORD ABOUT THE WIDE OPEN BLATANT MURDERS OF BLACKWATER???

I guess our shit doesn't stink, and Iraqi lives rate down there with Palestinians in Zionist Israel.

DEMOCRATIC GOTHIC

NO IMPEACHMENT--FUND THE WAR

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/23000

Monica, regarding Dodd's vote. He voted with all but four Republicans against the House Bill that sets a requirement of beginning troop reductions with a time of Dec. 15, 2008 to removing all troops unless they're related to training, "anti-terrorism" and protection. Yes, it would be nice not to have those "loopholes" in a perfect Bill but we don't.

We can play it pure and wait around for a Bill that only funds withdrawal and somehow holds Bush accountable, but we don't have that option right now. I don't regard his vote as principled but as foolishly naive.

I simply don't see how his vote against the only Bill on the table (even Feingold voted for it) works to hold Bush accountable. It looks like election games to me.

“We need to wean ourselves off oil, but we should replace it with the cleanest alternatives possible,” said Patrician Monahan, author of the report and deputy director of UCS’s Clean Vehicles Program. “Let’s not trade one bad habit for another.”Liquid coal, for example, can release 80 percent more global warming pollution than gasoline, the report found. Corn ethanol, conversely, could be either more polluting or less than gasoline, depending on how the corn is grown and the ethanol is produced. On average, corn ethanol can reduce emissions about 20 percent, though there is uncertainty due to differing land use practices. The cleanest alternative, cellulosic ethanol from grasses or wood chips, could reduce emissions by more than 85 percent. http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/when-carbon-counts-0079.html

Dennis on Ed Schultz show now.

161.  I'd like to suggest a new perspective on the role of private corporations.  What about considering that the private corporations were suborned by public officials as a strategy to evade public accountability and participation in the decision-making process? 

How would that influence your thinking?  What effect would it have on your opinion of the privatized health care system?  Since the actual health care providers are mostly on the edge of bankruptcy, the creation of that industry has not been a positive experience for them either.  The health insurance industry was created and has thrived, most inappropriately, IMHO.  Insurance is not suited to events that are almost certain to occur. 

 Phil wrote "I thought I heard [Obama] plug coal in the debate."

This is from an article by Alexander Bolton for the Hill last July, reproduced at the Obama campaign website:

"Obama's spokesman, Ben LaBolt, said his boss still supports the legislation he introduced with Bunning in January. But LeBolt said that Obama only would support coal-to-liquid fuel programs that produce less pollution than regular gasoline.

"'Sen. Obama believes that America should both pursue energy independence and fight climate change,' LeBolt said. 'He supports research into all potential sources of energy, including solar, wind and coal. But his support for coal-to-liquid fuels is dependent on whether we can capture and sequester enough carbon that [we can] produce fuels that have 20 percent lower emissions than gasoline.'

"In a statement released before the Senate energy debate, Obama announced that he would only support the development of coal-to-liquid fuels if they emitted less global warming-linked carbon than conventional fuels.

"Obama also voted against an amendment sponsored by Bunning that would have mandated the use of coal-to-liquid fuels.

"[Erich] Pica, of Friends of the Earth, said Obama's decision to moderate his position on liquefied coal shows he is moving closer to environmental interest groups on global warming.

"'I think he's realizing the enormity of the global warming crisis,' Pica said.

"[Frank] O'Donnell of Clean Air Watch said Obama's 'coal-to-liquid position has been something of a blemish on his record, but I think he's edging away from [his] initial position.'"

 "the reaction of the audience to any kind of attack politics was clear and anyone that starts going there in Iowa is going to lose"

It's too bad that people can't see the distinction between pointing out differences (which Edwards was doing) and attacks.  He did not call her stupid or ignorant or any other  names which are personal attacks.  He was pointing out his perception of her political flaws and the audience didn't get it.  He was drawing distinctions.  She jumped on the "mud-slinging" words and she is definitely not anyone I would vote for.  Calling her a manipulative, fat-assed, power hungry repug lite would be a personal attack.

If Iowans can't see that, then we all pay the price. 

************************** 

And the House has already passed this.  HQ, it's time for another "Feinsteinian" deluge. DFAer's need to work together and your front threads can help.  We need to know who to call, when etc.   I didn't even know about this H.R.1955, but it sounds Draconian.

 begin quote:  "H.R. 1955, With this piece of legislation in congress, my generation will no longer be able to use the internet in a peaceful manner. All activity will certainly be logged, and every letter typed will be scrutinized by the state.

My generation has, without their knowing, been forced into a society in which we cannot choose, where we cannot think, where we cannot be free. This legislation is another step towards an Orwellian society that will create misery and despair for generations to come. We will be forced into more wars, more taxation, and more Statist welfare, and there is nothing we will be able to do to stop those in power."

175.  "anti-terrorism, training and protection" are not loop-holes.  Those are the reasons our troops are there.  Please consider that what the Bushies are terrified of are the Russians and the Chinese and anyone else who resists their agenda for hegemony.  The original idea was that the Iraqi military would be trained to provide the kind of protection that American forces in Germany have enjoyed--i.e. not being shelled and mortared or subject to suicide bombings by the locals.  The protection that's now required is a substitute for the pipe-dream that American military installations the size of the island of Manhattan would be welcome in Iraq indefinitely.

The leaders of Iraq, meeting in Helsinki, have issued and agreement and nine policy statements.  One of their goals in the removal of all foreign military.  I suppose I should just re-post it once a day, especially since it calls for a halt in "continuous bombardment." 

Hillary's smart.  She's not allowing distinctions to be drawn.  She's manipulating the dialogue so that they all seem to be on the same page and says she's best becuz of her "experience."

If they get a teensy bit honest about calling her out, she yells, "Mud-slinging." 

She'd be a worse prez than bush/cheney becuz she's power mad as well plus smart.  She and Bill will expand the imperial presidency and the Bushes and Clintons can walk hand in hand into their piles of fortunes, letting the rest of us rot.

Poor Edwards.  First a wimp for a running mate and now a fight against the powerful and corrupt Clintons.

Al, you really need to enter this mess,  as the country is going down and you won't be able to stop it if you stay outside.  Climate change will be either moot or put on the back burner and all your work will have been in vain.

************************** 

How about those pollution credits and fines?  Isn't that a dandy idea?

I'm beginning to think that most of the people writing our laws have serious alcohol/drug/sex addiction issues. 

Cyber space is a new domain that the Air Force thinks it needs to conquer. 

Why do our representatives permit these programs to go forward?  Because they have found a convenient shield behind the "privacy" claims of the corporations.

If the internet were owned by the people, then every policy decision would be open to public scrutiny and review.  As it is, everything's decided in the boardrooms or behind closed door committee hearings. 

I guess everyone is into "planting" these days!

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/11/diamond_v_pearl_student_blasts_1.php

16 Nov 2007 11:21 am

Maria Luisa, the UNLV student who asked Hillary Clinton whether she preferred "diamonds or pearls" at last night's debate wrote on her MySpace page this morning that CNN forced her to ask the frilly question instead of a pre-approved query about the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository.

Monica Smith
Fri, 11/16/07
2:07 pm

Dodd should have stuck with the caucus and voted for it. This is an election stunt to try to make him look more "principled" than the rest. So what does he propose???

183.  Lots of things are designed to fail.  Permits to pollute and fines are in that category.

Link to a SurveyUSA Election Poll taken in Iowa week of   11-09-07 to 11-11-07.  When pitted against the major Republican candidates Obama is much stronger than Clinton.  Clinton's claim she is more electable is hogwash.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportEmail.aspx?g=2d211d2a-ee13-40ab-8455-5a70b9b55bfe

When pitted against the major Republican candidates Obama is much stronger than Clinton.  Clinton's claim she is more electable is hogwash.

All claims of electability -- ot unelectability -- are hogwash. Nobody can even say what those terms actually mean in any but the vaguest sense.

Poor Edwards.  First a wimp for a running mate and now a fight against the powerful and corrupt Clintons.

Don't forget that poor Edwards couldn't even beat the wimp back in 2004. 

Hillary's smart.  She's not allowing distinctions to be drawn.  She's manipulating the dialogue so that they all seem to be on the same page and says she's best becuz of her "experience."

It helps her make that case that the other Senators and Edwards have the same record as she. Except Obama of course -- but he tries not to distinguish himself from her to much and even tries to get to the right of her on some issues. 

The Green party already has a presidential nominee--Cynthia McKinney.

I could vote for her. 

new thread

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/23001...

seashell wrote "Edwards, of the three, prolly has the best chance of beating any repug since he's not polarizing and people can vote FOR him."

Great slogan:  "Vote for me because I'm the white male in the race."

We claimed Kerry was not electable and we were right.

A few on this blog might have said it, but, "I'm electable!" was Kerry's only card going into Iowa and NH. Dem voters ate it up like candy. 

"Edwards, of the three, prolly has the best chance of beating any repug since he's not polarizing and people can vote FOR him."

If he wasn't polarizing he'd have more than 12% support. The Republics will tear him, his flipflop record and rhetoric, and his hair, to shreds