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Framing the Health Care Debate
Linked to groups: PA Single Payer Healthcare Action Committee
Hat tip to Susan Rowe...
Don't Think of a Sick Child: The Logic of the Health Care DebateIn launching this campaign, the Rockridge Institute is contributing to progressives as they consider and focus their health care message. We have written a thoughtful white paper, as well as talking points, prototype television advertisements, blog posts, op-eds, and other material designed to bring some consistency and honest framing to the cause of health care security. To the many groups and individuals engaged in this cause, it is our hope we will be of some help to your heroic efforts.
Lots of good reading at:
Dollar Crisis: None dare call it �conspiracy'
Global Research | November 11, 2007
Hal Lindsey
Crude oil prices hit an all-time high this week, closing above $98 a barrel for the first time in history.
According to the AAA, many drivers in my home state of California are already paying more than $4 a gallon for regular unleaded gas. And in one town south of Big Sur, unleaded gas topped $5 a gallon.
The U.S. dollar is at an all-time low, even when compared against the hapless Canadian loonie. Five years ago, a loonie was worth 60 cents. Today, it's worth $1.12 and climbing.
Yesterday, WorldNetDaily reported that the Chinese are considering abandoning the U.S. dollar as their national reserve currency. WND quoted Craig Smith's assessment of the consequences of such a move by Beijing on our economy: �If that were to happen, all bets are off, and we will be in a depression that makes 1929 look like child's play, or we will experience Weimar Republic inflation as the dollar makes extreme moves toward devaluations.�
On Tuesday, the U.S. national debt topped $9 trillion for the first time in history, according to the U.S. Treasury Department's daily accounting of the national debt. Nine trillion dollars! The number is so staggeringly high that it exceeds our ability to comprehend it in monetary units.
Million, billion, trillion � in financial terms, for most of us, it means a lot of money, really a lot of money, but that is about as specific a picture as most ordinary people can grasp.
Let's put all these �illions� into perspective. A million seconds is roughly 12 days, whereas a billion seconds is approximately 32 years.
We understand dollars. And we understand time. So it would take 12 days to pay back a million dollars at a dollar a second. But if you started right now, you'd pay back a BILLION dollars, at a dollar a second, in the year 2039.
A trillion seconds is roughly 32 thousand years. At a dollar a second, you'd pay back a TRILLION dollars in the year 34007.
The U.S. debt stands at $9 trillion. If my calculator is working, then at a dollar a second, the U.S. could be debt- free in the year 290007.
The point of that little exercise was two-fold. The first was to clarify the sheer volume of the debt; the second was to demonstrate the possibility that anybody in government really believes we can ever pay it off.
Each U.S. citizen's share of the national debt works out, according to the National Debt clock, to $29,947.50. That means the average American family of five owes, collectively, $149,737.50.
It also means that unless the average American family of five has a net worth of at least $149,737,50 in assets excluding liabilities (they don't), America is already bankrupt.
Over the past few years, there has been growing public concern about the emerging �Security and Prosperity Partnership� plan that some say is really a �deceptive roadmap� to a coming North American Union and a new, unified currency tentatively called the �amero.�
The feds steadfastly deny such a plan exists, even as it opens the borders to Mexican truck traffic, widens the I-35 corridor from Mexico to Canada and, counterintuitively, refuses to tighten the borders with either Mexico or Canada, despite both logic and widespread public demand.
All of these things have brought me to believe that powerful forces outside of our government � like the shadowy international Money Trust members of the �Bilderberg Group� � made a decision to force the formation of the North American Union along with the amero. There decisions have been instituted in the past via the Trilateral Commission, which is the dba for the nefarious Conference on Foreign Relations. Destroying the American dollar could force the crisis that would force the creation of the North American Union. To quote the title of a book of the 1960s era, �None Dare Call It Conspiracy.�
Ordinary Americans may not fully grasp just how dire the true economic picture is, but you can bet our leaders do. Yet from the White House to the Federal Reserve, nobody seems particularly eager to address the issue, preferring instead to talk about the �budget,� as if the budget WERE the debt, rather than merely a measure of our ability to keep up with our payments on the debt.
It is almost as if they already have a Plan B in reserve, ready and waiting to be triumphantly introduced � just in the nick of time.
I wonder what it might be?
3. And Joan, so were you.........what happened?
well, you and Howard are still first in my eyes! :)
ciao!
I see those waiting for a Saint to come and save us are on the attack, spreading hafl-truths attacking all the Democratic candidates.
Linda and Sitka, Nov. 8th passed without an "announcement". When next?
Edwards has made mistakes, and he admits them. Then he moves on and corrects his mistakes with positions that are principled and realistic. On Iraq, health care, Trade deals, working and middle class economy.
Obama is a decent man, too, trying to remain principled and a man of conviction. I believe both of them want a progressive future for this country. Each has their strengths and weaknesses.
But TOGETHER they would set up a progressive Adminstration for the next 16 years. How about Clinton and Bayh? Is that what you want for 16 more years? Think about it.....
Edwards / Obama in 2008
Obama in 2016. He'll be 54 years young.
Obama, Edwards, Dodd or Gore (if he should change his mind) would make excellent POTUS's!
Daniel must have some kind of mystic powers!
Oh, I get it....HQ won't FIX THE BLOG CLOCK because they really want to stop our firsties for Dean! You can come in fourth and still end up first. A cnant arises from blogland.....
FIX THE BLOG CLOCK.....
FIX THE BLOG CLOCK.....
FIX THE BLOG CLOCK.....
FIX THE BLOG CLOCK.....
FIX THE BLOG CLOCK.....
FIX THE BLOG CLOCK.....
Joan* In*Florida
Mon, 11/12/07
12:52 pm
Joan,
Agreed. And I don't think Gore wouldn't want to see the kind of false bashing that passes for discussion around here.
I wish Gore had decided to run, but he didn't. And that is that. Time to stop the waiting for Goredot and get on with electing a progressive President.
Me thinks the DFA troop is still out on their long weekend and not here to
FIX THE BLOG CLOCK!
Democrat CFR Candidates:
Barack Obama
Hillary Clinton
John Edwards
Chris Dodd
Bill Richardson
Republican CFR Candidates:
Mitt Romney
Rudy Giuliani
John McCain
Fred Thompson
Newt Gingrich
Joan* In*Florida
Mon, 11/12/07
12:55 pm
Yeah!!!! I could live with either. But Edwards has said it's not in him to run as VP again. So I favor the Edwards / Obama ticket. Obama would gain needed national and international experience and easily be the Dem candidate in 2016.
This means one of the "nay" votes has to come from a Republican member of Committee, which does not seem incredibly likely. The Republican who we'd previously targeted as most likely to vote the right was was Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania. Since Specter has also introduced a proposal that would indemnify the telecom companies by making the federal government sole defendant in all of the pending cases against the industry. This proposal - retroactive immunity by another name - makes it look unlikely that Specter will oppose other forms of immunity.
There are two paths from here:
First, we must continue to call all members of the Senate Judiciary who aren't currently opposed and ask them to oppose retroactive immunity. Everyone is not opposed needs to hear from the public on this issue - even conservative Republicans - because the Constitution and rule of law are not partisan issues, nor should they be.
Second, if you're feeling discouraged by the increased chances of amnesty for telecoms making it out of the Judiciary Committee, remember that Senator Dodd has vowed to stop any such legislation from becoming law, either through a hold or by filibuster if necessary. Dodd will stand up for the rule of law. He will defend the Constitution.
Now is the time to take action, though. Chris Dodd won't wait until 2009 to lead and we shouldn't wait until 2009 to stand up for what we believe in.
Will Gore do in the NH Primary what he did in the DFA Pulse Poll?
As the rush to maintain New Hampshire’s first in the nation primary, Granite state voters should be reminded that a candidate’s name on the printed ballot is just one of two ways to choose a party’s presidential candidate.
A voter can “write in” any individuals’s name on the ballot on Primary Day.
The write-in option has a venerable tradition since the victory of Dwight Eisenhower over Taft more than 50 years ago. And, given the uninspiring candidates from both major political parties, the write-in option provides a unique opportunity for Granite State voters to select a presidential candidate of world stature—Al Gore.
====================================
Farrell S. Seiler, State Coordinator
Draft Gore, New Hampshire!
PO Box 463
Littleton, NH 03561
603-568-4916
writein@DraftGoreNH.com
====================================
Oh yes, such whitty sarcasm Steve.
Well, you may be waiting for a saint, but I am just waiting for the Best Leader to be President of the United States.
Another date you got to post. I have another one for you January 20, 2009.
Gore
2008
CFR Stacks The Deck With Both Democrat And Republican Presidential Candidates
ThoughtCriminal.org | August 15, 2007
Michael Vail
Editor's Note: 2004 was the year of the Skull & Bones presidential candidates, and now 2008 seems to be the year of the CFR presidential candidates. Democrat or Republican, it matters not which rook they choose to elect. We lose either way. The 2004 elections were marred by the stench of a fixed fight. Bush and Kerry both Yale Bonesmen and related by blood running for the presidency. Now the Council on Foreign Relations has nearly every presidential candidate in their pocket. We need to elect Ron Paul. Let's redeem America and restore the Constitution. Ronald Reagan said, "It's Morning In America." Now we are mourning America as she descends into tyranny.
I, for one, would LOVE to see a real filibuster and I'm sure Robert Byrd is looking forward to one, too.
The Mukasey nomination was not the right issue.
Chairman of the Texas Board of Education is anti-evolution, and is a strong creationist. More about him:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1639
Florida is trying to move ahead by including evolution in the science standards now, and they are really running into opposition.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1636
How weird for a supposedly educated nation to be in a spot like this.
CFR Stacks The Deck With Both Democrat And Republican Presidential Candidates
ThoughtCriminal.org | August 15, 2007
Michael Vail
Editor's Note: 2004 was the year of the Skull & Bones presidential candidates, and now 2008 seems to be the year of the CFR presidential candidates. Democrat or Republican, it matters not which rook they choose to elect. We lose either way. The 2004 elections were marred by the stench of a fixed fight. Bush and Kerry both Yale Bonesmen and related by blood running for the presidency. Now the Council on Foreign Relations has nearly every presidential candidate in their pocket. We need to elect Ron Paul. Let's redeem America and restore the Constitution. Ronald Reagan said, "It's Morning In America." Now we are mourning America as she descends into tyranny.
CFR Stacks The Deck With Both Democrat And Republican Presidential Candidates
ThoughtCriminal.org | August 15, 2007
Michael Vail
Editor's Note: 2004 was the year of the Skull & Bones presidential candidates, and now 2008 seems to be the year of the CFR presidential candidates. Democrat or Republican, it matters not which rook they choose to elect. We lose either way. The 2004 elections were marred by the stench of a fixed fight. Bush and Kerry both Yale Bonesmen and related by blood running for the presidency. Now the Council on Foreign Relations has nearly every presidential candidate in their pocket. We need to elect Ron Paul. Let's redeem America and restore the Constitution. Ronald Reagan said, "It's Morning In America." Now we are mourning America as she descends into tyranny.
CFR Stacks The Deck With Both Democrat And Republican Presidential Candidates
ThoughtCriminal.org | August 15, 2007
Michael Vail
Editor's Note: 2004 was the year of the Skull & Bones presidential candidates, and now 2008 seems to be the year of the CFR presidential candidates. Democrat or Republican, it matters not which rook they choose to elect. We lose either way. The 2004 elections were marred by the stench of a fixed fight. Bush and Kerry both Yale Bonesmen and related by blood running for the presidency. Now the Council on Foreign Relations has nearly every presidential candidate in their pocket. We need to elect Ron Paul. Let's redeem America and restore the Constitution. Ronald Reagan said, "It's Morning In America." Now we are mourning America as she descends into tyranny.
Sitka
Mon, 11/12/07
1:00 pm
OMG, Clinton couldn't dream up a better strategy!!!
Gore supporters will never take no for an answer. I predict he will make a clear, definitive statement before Iowa. Will that finally do it?
14.
Feinstiien must go -- she has become a phony Democrat!
Specter is a phony everything! He will oppose the issue but vote in favor of it.
The Mukasey nomination was not the right issue.
Any and every thing that is wrong is the right issue to filibuster -- especially torture and trampling the Constitution.
And excuse me. But Steve you can make all the accusations and attacks YOU (oviously make) want, but I don't.
I state only facts. And if you think my remarks on the other thread about John Edwards voting for Iraq War, Trade, patriot Act and Bankruptcy is inaccurate, please share.
You like to throw down demands and attack others and cliam victim.
So, were you with the Edwards campaign in Iowa this w/e when Trippi walked in to the room and shouted to supporters "Let's kick her @ss" and then smiled at McAuliffe?
Feinstiien must go -- she has become a phony Democrat!
She's been one for as long as I can remember.
Indy thank you. you keep this blog young feeling. If we didn't have you keep coming here throwing down demands and putting up new dates, we might lose track of time.
CFR Stacks The Deck With Both Democrat And Republican Presidential Candidates
ThoughtCriminal.org | August 15, 2007
Michael Vail
Editor's Note: 2004 was the year of the Skull & Bones presidential candidates, and now 2008 seems to be the year of the CFR presidential candidates. Democrat or Republican, it matters not which rook they choose to elect. We lose either way. The 2004 elections were marred by the stench of a fixed fight. Bush and Kerry both Yale Bonesmen and related by blood running for the presidency. Now the Council on Foreign Relations has nearly every presidential candidate in their pocket. We need to elect Ron Paul. Let's redeem America and restore the Constitution. Ronald Reagan said, "It's Morning In America." Now we are mourning America as she descends into tyranny.
Linda*in*SFNM
Mon, 11/12/07
1:03 pm
The problem is you're holding the others to a standard you don't hold Gore. Edwards made mistakes. So did Gore. They are human beings and can alter their views and admit they were wrong.
Should I start listing the mistakes Gore made? When anyone does that, you attack. Just be fair and balanced.
People are not cast in cement to forever be tied to EVERYTHING they ever did or said. If someone says they made mistakes and correct them, I accept that. Then I think it's quite legitimate to HOLD THEM TO IT, which I will do with Edwards and everyone else.
Linda*in*SFNM
Mon, 11/12/07
1:06 pm
You're welcome. I expect a Gore announcement by Christmas. The pressure is on! ;-)
A Message from Paul Hackett:
Recently, I was pleased to participate in a conference call with members of the media, bloggers, and concerned Democrats. The purpose of the call was to talk about a new direction for Ohio and our veterans. During the discussion, my friend, Ohio Congressional candidate Rosemary Palmer outlined a plan for protecting and honoring our veterans. It is an issue close to my heart and certainly to hers as well.Rosemary's support of the bi-partisan recommendations of the President's Commission on Care for America's Returning Wounded Warriors calls for a comprehensive recovery plan for the right care and support in the right place for veterans. It addresses a complete restructuring of the disability and compensation system. It also strengthens support for families and deals with the effects of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
It is a thoughtful, intelligent approach to how we should be honoring the men and women who put their lives on the line to protect our freedoms. Rosemary's awareness of these issues should come as no surprise to those of us who know her and have taken the time to learn what she's about. She's a Gold Star Mother who is smart, intelligent, and most of all, a problem solver who can get things accomplished. It's one thing to talk the talk, but Rosemary will actually walk the talk when she's elected to Congress next fall.
She is simply the best candidate for Congress from the Ohio 10th Congressional District and that is why I'm pleased to be able to offer my endorsement and support. But in order to win this race, she'll need more than me. She'll need you and your family and friends. That's why I'm asking you to get on board and consider supporting Rosemary with a contribution of $25 or more. Rosemary has the right ideas, the right plan, and the right motivation for running for Congress. She wants to get Ohio and America moving forward again - and we all want someone focused on the job. Rosemary is that someone. Let's send her to Washington.
Democratically yours,
Paul Hackett rosemarypalmerforcongress.com
Thanks to our blog veterans, here on Veterans Day (observed).
It's amazing how many Democrats and progressives serve, while right wingers and Republicans find reasons not to.
So honor and thank those who serve in our military, and honor and thank those who work to ensure our military is only used to "defend the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic," not for the political theories of an individual.
25.
The opposition in Florida to teaching true science rather than fairytale intelligent design, is loud but very small. They themselves were apparently not intelligently designed to begin with.
Morning Folks,
This in the news:
Gore Joins Major Venture Capital Firm
Nov 12, 12:32 PM (ET)
By RACHEL KONRAD 
(AP) Former Vice President Al Gore smiles after speaking at a news conference in Palo Alto, Calif., in...
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SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Nobel Peace Prize winner and former Vice President Al Gore announced Monday he's joining Silicon Valley's most prestigious venture capital firm to guide investments that help combat global warming.
Gore, an environmental activist who won an Academy Award for his global warming documentary "An Inconvenient Truth," joins Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers as it and dozens of other venture firms headquartered in Silicon Valley expand beyond software, computer hardware, the Internet and biotechnology to so-called "clean-tech" investments worldwide.
Gore is expected to be a high-profile, active partner at Kleiner Perkins. He's already a senior adviser to Google Inc. (GOOG) and a member of the board at Apple Inc. (AAPL) Alliance for Climate Protection, the advocacy group he co-founded, is based in Palo Alto.
Also Monday, Kleiner Perkins partner John Doerr announced he's joining the advisory board of Generation Investment Management, the $1 billion investment firm that Gore founded with David Blood, who previously managed $325 billion in assets out of Goldman Sachs' London office. Doerr is one of Silicon Valley's most outspoken clean-tech advocates.
Clean technology encompasses alternative fuels, water purification, renewable energy and recycling programs and other eco-friendly initiatives, as well as products ranging from electric cars to microbes that search for oil in seemingly tapped-out wells.
North American and European venture capitalists invested $1.9 billion in clean-tech companies in the first half of 2007, a 10 percent increase from the first half 2006, according to Ann Arbor, Mich.-based trade group Cleantech Network.
Last year, Menlo Park-based Kleiner Perkins earmarked $100 million of its $600 million investment fund to startups that work on reducing carbon dioxide emissions. The firm expects to dedicate one-third of new funding to clean tech by 2009.
In 2005, Kleiner Perkins named former Secretary of State Colin Powell a "strategic limited partner," but the moderate Republican hasn't played a prominent role in the firm's affairs.
Gore said in a statement that he'll donate 100 percent of his salary as a Kleiner Perkins partner to the Alliance for Climate Protection, which focuses on accelerating policy solutions to the climate crisis.
For years, Gore, 59, has been good friends with Doerr, a former Intel salesman who became a billionaire thanks to early investments in startups such as Netscape Communications, Amazon.com Inc. (AMZN) and Google.
They palled around together so much in the 1990s that fellow venture capitalist and former InfoWorld editor Stewart Alsop II created spoof political buttons that said "Gore and Doerr in 2004."
---
On the Net:
Gore supporters will never take no for an answer.
Apparently, neither will Edwards' supporters since he can't poll higher than 15%.
Associated Press-Ipsos poll oconducted by Ipsos Public Affairs. Nov. 5-7, 2007. N=474 Democrats and leaners nationwide. MoE �
John edwards 12%
If that isn't a resounding no, then nothing is.
that isn't a resounding NO, then nothing is.
Sitka
Mon, 11/12/07
1:00 pm
So they couldn't get him on the ballot, they're now going the write-in option. We have a good field from which to pick from Biden to Kucinich. Write-in campaigns only result in Clinton.
Maybe that's what the whole draft Gore movement is about????
Sitka
Mon, 11/12/07
1:14 pm
Suddenly, Sitka's a poll watcher! Amazing how people change. You're going to have to justify this one, my friend. National polls are meaningless except as tools by the front-runner which you seem to be increasingly doing.
If we didn't have you keep coming here throwing down demands and putting up new dates, we might lose track of time.
Al Gore is miles above the demands of political dates and rhetorical buffoonery.
on topic: haven't we already had this posted a while back.
Frame the health care debate: What part of universal health care do you not agree with, Congress? If you won't vote for universal health care, as President, John Edwards will use his power to take yours away.
Pat in Colorado
Mon, 11/12/07
1:14 pm
Thanks, Pat.
That is NOT the action of a man considering running for the Presidency. He would have to resign from all these positions. Give it up.....and get the message. He IS NOT RUNNING.
Continuing on with this windmill tilting is only working to NOMINATE CLINTON! Sorry i had to shout!
in an interview conducted last month shortly after winning the Nobel Peace Prize. The announcement that Al Gore will join the board of Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers,Silicon Valley's preeminent venture firm, with old pal John Doerr as an active, hands-on partner. Gore is joining the firm as Kleiner makes a risky move beyond information technology and health-care investing into the fast-growing and increasingly competitive arena of "clean technology."
The deal also brings Doerr in as a partner to Blood and Gore's Generation Manaagement company they started 3 years ago. Of course, this move can free him from having a more involved position for future political endeavors.
"Of course, he could have more impact as president, as he knows. “I want to be clear about the fact that I’m not making the mistake of assuming I could do more this way than I could as president,” he told us in Nashville. He also will not definitively take himself out of the political game.
“I am not going to give the so-called Sherman statement: If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve.”
Then he smiled.
“You know, I know what it’s like to be elected and not serve.” He laughed louder than anyone at that line and then said, “I wouldn’t want to do that again.”"
And Mr. Gore continues working to move us in the right direction, even not in public office.
I just hope he will seek to make the final changes needed, which means from the Oval Office.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/11/news/new...
LOL Pat in Colorado, thank you. great minds think alike.
Time for
a COOL
change
GORE
2008
Oh, Lynn, being you're here....does this mean Paul is getting back in to politics? :D (big smile)
COME ON PAUL and SUSIE! Give Voinovich a run for the money. And, it will give you a chance to shine them on in DC!
32. But Mukasey hasn't done either of those things. We aren't into "guilt by association" are we?
OT, I am persuaded that "single payer" is a misnomer since we all pay and will continue to pay for health care.
What we really want is a universal health account which processes payments in an efficient and timely manner.
Clearly there might be some entities who are not qualified to receive payments--unlicensed doctors and bogus pharmaceutical makers, for example.
2.
Indy Steve
Mon, 11/12/07
12:40 pm
I see those waiting for a Saint to come and save us are on the attack, spreading hafl-truths attacking all the Democratic candidates.
Linda and Sitka, Nov. 8th passed without an "announcement". When next?
Edwards has made mistakes, and he admits them...
Obama is a decent man, too,...
But TOGETHER they would set up a progressive Adminstration for the next 16 years....
Edwards / Obama in 2008
Obama in 2016. He'll be 54 years young.
-------
Indy you seems ready to let "any" Democrat (not necessarily the "saint" one) "to save us"... and apparently get unlimited patience and lifeexpectancy..., lol.
Ultimately, that's what should happen anyway, imo, especially, taking into account that the "saint" One Linda and we all were/are awaiting, most likely will NOT enter, as he tentatively declared earlier, for one simple reason: HE DOES NOT BELIEVE himself or ANYONE else can "save" American People.
btw, if there is anything makes Gore "saint" it is his NON-ENTRANCE into this circus play, imo.
Contagious cancers
Scientists are only beginning to discover the hidden role of some viruses and bacteria
By Scott Allen
Globe Staff / November 12, 2007
The almond-shaped lump on Brian Hill's throat didn't make sense to him. The doctor said it was a symptom of advanced oral cancer, but Hill had never smoked a cigarette or chewed a plug of tobacco, considered the main causes of the disease when he was diagnosed in 1997. So why was it there?
Not until four years later did Hill get an explanation for his brush with death: a microbe called human papilloma virus-16 had apparently moved into his tonsils, gradually turning normal cells into cancer. Hill, now 59, had become part of a wave of relatively young nonsmokers who contracted oral cancer from the sexually transmitted virus, fueling an overall increase in new cases.
Viruses such as human papilloma may be the most overlooked bad guys in the war on cancer, silent invaders that contribute to more than a dozen malignancies and may cause 15 percent of the cancer cases worldwide each year.
"What we know about HPV-16 as a cancer causer is just the tip of the iceberg," said Hill, founder of the Oral Cancer Foundation, which funds research for a disease that strikes 34,000 Americans annually and is caused by the same virus that can lead to cancers of the cervix, vulva, anus, and penis.
[...]
http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2007/11/12/contagious_cancers/
former
Mon, 11/12/07
1:28 pm
Not true, former. I am definitely NOT into SAVIORS. I am a pragamatic idealist. And I am not supporting AOD (any old Democrat). In fact, I've been very critical of the party lately.
I am supporting who I think will make a good, progressive President of the field who has decided to put themselves forward. And I have NEVER attacked Al Gore, unlike Gore supporters have attacked EVERY Dem candidate here.
All I say is continuing to support Gore when he has clearly decided not to run, will help nominate Clinton. I wish he had entered by Labor Day, but he didn't. Deal with reality.
Mon, 11/12/07
1:03 pm
The problem is you're holding the others to a standard you don't hold Gore. Edwards made mistakes. So did Gore. They are human beings and can alter their views and admit they were wrong.
Should I start listing the mistakes Gore made? When anyone does that, you attack. Just be fair and balanced.
People are not cast in cement to forever be tied to EVERYTHING they ever did or said. If someone says they made mistakes and correct them, I accept that. Then I think it's quite legitimate to HOLD THEM TO IT, which I will do with Edwards and everyone else.
This blog is so messed up. Joan got bumped down 6 comments and others are jumping above.
Sorry Indy, your other comment got bumped up above mine, and didn't see it.
No, stating a fact of Edwards support for the War, Trade, Bankruptcy, Patriot Act et all, is not not holding the same to Mr. Gore at all.
He has been quite clear and consistent on the issues. And when he gave that speech in September 2002 about not supporting an attack on Iraq and Edwards was in the Committee hearing the intelligence that caused the others, Durbin, Graham and others to vote against it, why did he vote for it.
Mr. Gore pleaded and spoke passionately for Congrss to be the check they are supposed to be. we shouldn't have had and certainly should put a stop to the torture, the spying and our Constitutional crisis-not to mention everything else.
And in case you missed the January 16 2006 speech at Constitution Hall. it is on video for easy viewing.
http://www.acslaw.org/node/2096
57. WOW. I was having these thoughts recently with all the infections we are seeing.
well be well all, I'm off.
54.
Indy Steve
Mon, 11/12/07
1:35 pm
I am supporting who I think will make a good, progressive President...
-------
Me too...noting that I still do not see one....
Though to me "progressive" means the one who is able to declare that for power to belong to people he WILL TRY TO BECOME THE LAST POTUS.
Well, no more Gore hope. Too bad it's not no more Hillary. It may be too late to try to push Edwards to the front to stop her. There are still those who would rather not be "herded". So, Edwards is my last concession, but if others are not willing to join in an effort to stop the two MOST corporate candidates, Hillary and Obama, then I am comfortable with supporting Kucinich, who after all the discussion is done, is the one who is closest to the thinkint of most here. The only question with him is the electable one, but like he says if people vote for him, he WINS.
1:33
The field was wide open for a Feingold even late, and I must confess that news about Gore's latest venture sort of closes the door in my mind. Since a Draft Gore initiative helps him with his cause it is not a wasted effort.
seashell
I think you are right about the cause of Edwards' changes. when I look him in the eye I see an honest man, and I take him at his word, but I wouldn't back him if his capabilities and causes weren't matched with my personal direction of where I think the politics of this country needs to go to begin to re-balance some power back to the people and to re-discover the tens of millions now forgotten
Peter Welch got an earful. He was a DFA-List candidate. Hold them accountable. He should be LEADING the anti-war effort. How about impeachment -- shouldn't he be for that bill?
Peter Welch (D-VT) gets an earful about the war. People are pissed.
by lordradish [Subscribe] Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:55:59 PM PSTcrossposted at five before chaos
Congressman Peter Welch met today with a group of some 100-120 Vermonters to discuss the war in the Aldrich Library in Barre today. Hoo boy, where to begin... Let's just say that it was the most heated confrontation that I've ever personally witnessed between constituents and a politician.
audrey.nc
Mon, 11/12/07
2:22 pm
Audrey,
We're not pushing Edwards. He will rise on his own. My feeling is the anti-Clinton crowd will rally behind either Edwards or obama. Then it will become a two-way race. I think Edwards will be the winner of Iowa and vault him into the race with Clinton which will be decided on Feb. 5.
Phil,
Get out there and work your guy, Edwards. You have the opportunity in Iowa that the rest of us don't. Gore is out. It's time to fish or cut bait.
I know you're trying to be open to all, but if you really support Edwards, then do it on the ground!
i find it funny how no matter what mr. Gore does, we have folks giving that as a measuring stick that he won't decided to enter the race.
Good thing we don't rely on other candidates jobs as being a similar measure stick.
The difference is, it's not even a job for him. He is volunteering his time that he does work on this climate crisis. Any money he receives for being on the Board of the Kleiner Perkins in their new effort to go to "Clean" technology, all monies will be donated to Alliance for Climate Protection. He is awesome, but still needs a paying job!
Time for
a COOL
change,
GORE
2008
Most people, like myself, don't really understand much about the Iowa caucuses. I think of them mainly as a straw vote because it is not one person, one vote as in a primary.
Four years ago, Dennis Kucinich and John Edwards cut a deal, agreeing shortly before caucus day that if either of them failed to reach threshold (I believe that is 15% - Phil??) in any precinct, their supporters would go and line up with the other. Other arrangements are less formal but no less effective in reallocating the people who have arrived intending to support some of the lesser candidates.
So, trying to figure out how to beat Clinton is hard to figure. Will Kucinich still toss his supporters to Edwards -- is there a deal there? What other deals may there be that we don't know about?
Linda*in*SFNM
Mon, 11/12/07
2:44 pm
Do you seriously think if he were about ready to enter the race, he would make this kind of commitment? Wouldn't it be just a wee bit irresponsible to agree to this and then turn around and announce next week or next month?
But since you will be a true believer til January, 2009, i guess I'm just appealing to others. Gore will not enter. There are plenty of good candidates in the field. Choose one to support, purty please?
You sound like "pushing" would not be a good thing. I think he needs a push. You see, I don't want to take a chance of getting Obama either. As I once said, One is white and female, and the other black and male, but they're like two peas in a pod. Somebody on TV said one was the opposite side of the coin to the other.
I find it awesome that Mr. Gore is doing all he can to further solving the Climate Crisis and joining the board of one of the best know technology firms working toward Clean Technology is putting his name and weight towards that effort. Irresponsible? LOL Outstanding character is more like it.
And, as you are trying to appeal to others, then you don't mind that he has a set up so he can video communicate once a week from his home, without having to fly to California for their weekly meetings and is able to do all of his other things that need him.
This will free his time well.
This 8-pager at the American Muslim website is a blast, not to be missed:
* FOLLOW THE KIDS: Speaking of the young folk, they are becoming as scarce in the Republican Party as a good vowel in Kyrgyzstan. And why not? Who wants to be in the party that’s wrecking your environment, spending your future earnings, killing your friends for lies and telling you who you can sleep with? (Hint: You can’t sleep with anybody. Unless, of course, you’re a television preacher or a blow-hard regressive politician, in which case you can sleep with everyone. And everything. Baaaah.) What a fun bunch to hang with, eh? The even better news is that there is pretty strong evidence that people tend to stick for life with the party affiliation they adopt when they’re young. As in so many other ways, therefore, George W. Bush will be the gift that keeps on giving. Thirty years from now, when regressives are an extinct species visible only in dusty museum showcases, we may wonder why we weren’t as happy as little clams at a mollusk orgy to have had the Bush Leaguer around, doing a better job than we ever could have of smashing his ideology to bits.
If the anti-Clinton crowd in IA splits between Obama and Edwards, Clinton wins and it's all over. Look how anti-Clinton we are here we can't decide to back either Obama or Edwards.
I suggested we get together but if we can't, what makes us thinks the Iowans can?
I'm thinking Obama is the spoiler and will be her VP if this happens.
I've been posting about a fix of Clinton/Obama for months. We shall see.
IMO we need to let go of Kucinich and Gore, while still wanting them to win..and focus on who can beat Clinton. This is another ABB primary which disgusts me, but we need to do something to stop her and hopefully her clone, Obama. JMO
Gore first
Linda*in*SFNM
Mon, 11/12/07
2:59 pm
You have a way of really twisting what was said. I said it would be irresponsible for him to do this and then decide to run. He is making a commitment to this firm that he would have to change if he ran. This is pretty much proof he isn't considering a run.
You clear your plate for a Presidential run, not add more to it.
Audrey,
I don't share your view of Obama. He is principled and a good progressive, IMO. But I would prefer Edwards at the top of the ticket and Seashell is right. It will come down to either Edwards or Obama going head to head against Clinton. And I hope it's Edwards. obama just isn't ready for it this time around.
We're not pushing Edwards. He will rise on his own.
Like a rock. He was at 15% or less in 2004 and he's still stuck there. People have seen him. People know him.
Monica Smith
Mon, 11/12/07
1:02 pm
I, for one, would LOVE to see a real filibuster and I'm sure Robert Byrd is looking forward to one, too.
The Mukasey nomination was not the right issue.
Bullshit!!
Where is it written that you're limited to one filibuster in a certain period
Their never was a more important issue than rejecting the Mukasey nomination!
IMO we need to let go of Kucinich and Gore
I won't play electoral games. I'll vote for the candidate on my ballot whom I deem best represents my views.
Kurt Nimmo
TruthNews
November 9, 2007
On October 31, Jim Hoffa, president of the Teamsters, offered his incredulity over the so-called Peru Free Trade Agreement, passed the House a few days later: “I’m astounded that members of Congress would even consider passing more of these free trade agreements that workers hate.”
Mr. Hoffa should understand by now that Congress is no friend of workers. Congress is a whorehouse long ago sold out to corporate interests. It acts as a rubber stamp factory for the globalist agenda. Even so, a sizeable number of Democrats voted against the “free trade”—as in unhindered looting and pillaging—bill, understanding well enough the possible wrath of voters, or at least the minority paying attention.
“While the deal was easily approved in a 285-132 vote, more Democrats voted against the deal than supported it. Despite backing from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) and other Democratic leaders, 116 Democrats voted against the deal while 109 Democrats supported it. Eight Democrats did not cast votes,” reports Ian Swanson, writing for the Hill.
Most of the freshman class that provided the Democrats with their majority also voted against the deal. Thirty freshman Democrats, including Reps. Niki Tsongas (D-Mass.) and Laura Richardson (D-Calif.), who joined the House after this Congress began, voted against the Peru deal. Eleven freshman Democrats supported it, while two freshman Democrats did not vote.
Republicans were much more unified in supporting the Peru agreement. Only 16 Republicans voted against it, while 176 voted to approve it. The deal now goes to the Senate, which is expected to approve it.
Some business sources said they were encouraged that more than 100 House Democrats did support the Peru deal.
Do you seriously think if he were about ready to enter the race, he would make this kind of commitment?
I'm coming to the conclusion that Gore doesn't even need to enter "the race." He can get enough write in votes and drafts to win enough delegates to keep Hillary from securing the nomination, and then be chosen at the convention.
I'll certainly write him in on my AZ ballot if it's legal.
75.
Indy Steve
Mon, 11/12/07
3:00 pm
Linda*in*SFNM
You have a way of really twisting what was said. I said it would be irresponsible for him to do this and then decide to run. He is making a commitment to this firm that he would have to change if he ran. This is pretty much proof he isn't considering a run.
You clear your plate for a Presidential run, not add more to it.
_________________________
NO Indy, I SPECIFICALLY replied to your statement as anyone can see, by below. You just didn't like my response.
I find it awesome that Mr. Gore is doing all he can to further solving the Climate Crisis and joining the board of one of the best know technology firms working toward Clean Technology is putting his name and weight towards that effort. Irresponsible? LOL Outstanding character is more like it.
And, as you are trying to appeal to others, then you don't mind that he has a set up so he can video communicate once a week from his home, without having to fly to California for their weekly meetings and is able to do all of his other things that need him.
This will free his time well.
Oh and I forgot. When you run for President, we'll know that you will not be doing anything else but that. Thank you for the heads up.
Oh and please remember. The Draft Gore movement is all citizens in a grassroots movement.
The New Hampshire Draft Gore has just started a Pac for the write in campaign, so PLEASE donate!!!
https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/en...
when I look him in the eye I see an honest man, and I take him at his word
Edwards......I just don't see how an "honest man" can make a 180 degree turnaround in the space of one election cycle.
And the movement is growing by leaps and bounds.
Now one website alone stands at over 225, 000 signatures.
Signatures | Total: 230,751
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/algor...
The health-care debate is easily framed.
Dennis Kucinich supports universal, single-payer health care.
None of the others does.
well, thank you for bringing up Mr. Gore and giving me the chance to share the latest developments.
Back to tiling I go.
I see those waiting for a Saint to come and save us are on the attack, spreading hafl-truths attacking all the Democratic candidates.
Even if only half of what I've said about Edwards is true, he's still unfit to to be the Democratic nominee.
Seashell...
I agree, Obama has been a spoiler. I would even believe set up by the Clintons, like the General in "04.
I am willing to join everyone in supporting Edwards, not my choice, in an effort to elect someone acceptable to many here. Anyone but Hillary and her protege. If we can't get together on this soon, there's not much point. If there's an effort by DFA to support Edward to win the Primary, then I can still be herded to that effort. Otherwise I'll be supporting the one closest to my issues, Kucinich.
Don't like the son of a millworker. I saw how he handled himself in Iowa last time and I still find him to be a tad oily. I don't trust him. He says the right things, but I don't believe him.
I'll vote for him in the general if he is the nominee. I won't lift a finger for him until then.
88.
The New Hampshire Draft Gore has just started a Pac for the write in campaign, so PLEASE donate!!!
Hmmm! I know it costs $1,000 to get your name on the ballot in NH, but I didn't know it would cost a voter to write in a candidate's name. Why do they need money?
People are a little testy and misreading and taking things personally. Please, we need to stick together even tho we don't support the same candidate. Not only is this regime splitting the country, it's also endangering blog friendships and respect.
Emotions are running very high, mine included. When people react emotionally, they don't always read what's written correctly or with clarity.
I think we can support Gore and still try and stop Clinton at the same time. And hopefully we can talk about supporting s/o or s/t w/o being attacked or criticized.
It's bad form to call s/o a *dick* or stupid or arrogant or ignorant. I've even been called a racist when I post AIPAC stuff.
People read between the lines and invent stuff when they're reacting emotionally.
So much for preaching on Monday.
I'm also willing to join with others supporting Edwards but only until Gore enters, if he does.
A complete 180 in four years or even two, is not only possible, but very doable. IMO. Many times a diagnosis will do it.
If Edwards loses, I'll write in Daffy Duck before I'll vote Clinton/Obama.
Phil, how about helping Edwards by not giving the others much of your time or energy?
Gore/his choice
audrey wrote "I am willing to join everyone in supporting Edwards, not my choice, in an effort to elect someone acceptable to many here."
Count me out.
seashell wrote "If Edwards loses, I'll write in Daffy Duck before I'll vote Clinton/Obama."
I'm glad you've at least given it careful thought. May I ask, are you talking about voting in a primary election or the general election? In the primary I would at least suggest voting for Kucinich as opposed to a fictional character.
Contagious cancers -- just anecdotally I believe in them. My sis in law had bad cancer, then my bro got a bad cancer and no one in my family has ever had cancer before. Then their son-in-law got bad cancer. I really believe some at least are 'mildly' contagious. Also there was an oncologist in SF who got it, then his wife.
Why do we care about the blog clock? Just curious, altho I know sometimes you reply to a post and your reply gets posted above the thing you are replying to, but this is our quirky blog after all.
4:15 ET
Speaking O T Health Care
michael Moore on Countdown last week.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0RVrVrVatrw
audrey wrote "Obama has been a spoiler. I would even believe set up by the Clintons, like the General in "04."
Is this hypothesis pure speculation, or is there some kind of evidence that would lead you to consider it possible?
new thread
http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22958...
I am willing to join everyone in supporting Edwards, not my choice, in an effort to elect someone acceptable to many here.
Since Hillary's and Edwards' records are virtually the same, I will not join any effort to stop her with him.
Tom Bearse....
It's pretty much speculation Tom. I just take into consideration that we helped put him in office while the Party supported someone other than Obama in the Primary. Then when he was elected he was seen on Tv with Hillary. Then he seemed to gravitate to Lieberman. It seemed to me he was definitely being courted by the DLC. Obama had said he would spend his six years in the Senate, and that seemed to be the prudent plan for someone who planned to run for president in the future. Suddenly he changed, and it looked to me like something better had been offered to him. The fact that all of a sudden he couldn't wait is not believable to me. Also, I wondere about the huge crowds that surprised everyone at the beginning, took an organization and money I don't think he had then. That's my take.
And a chicken in every pot? Stop the harassing posts. Once is enough.
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