Howard Dean is First in these parts, whereever that is.

Rangel got his trade bill through, and after all this time we are still not very sure just what is in it.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1355

Never give up hope for good.

Al Gore:
Restore Rule of Law
Jan 16, 2006

At the same time, the Executive Branch has claimed a previously unrecognized authority to mistreat prisoners in its custody in ways that plainly constitute torture in a pattern that has now been documented in U.S. facilities located in several countries around the world.

Over 100 of these captives have reportedly died while being tortured by Executive Branch interrogators and many more have been broken and humiliated. In the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, investigators who documented the pattern of torture estimated that more than 90 percent of the victims were innocent of any charges.

This shameful exercise of power overturns a set of principles that our nation has observed since General Washington first enunciated them during our Revolutionary War and has been observed by every president since then – until now. These practices violate the Geneva Conventions and the International Convention Against Torture, not to mention our own laws against torture.

The President has also claimed that he has the authority to kidnap individuals in foreign countries and deliver them for imprisonment and interrogation on our behalf by autocratic regimes in nations that are infamous for the cruelty of their techniques for torture.
...
If the President has the inherent authority to eavesdrop, imprison citizens on his own declaration, kidnap and torture, then what can’t he do?
...
For example, after appearing to support legislation sponsored by John McCain to stop the continuation of torture, the President declared in the act of signing the bill that he reserved the right not to comply with it.

http://www.libertycoalition.net/govt-sur...


video
http://www.acslaw.org/node/2096

Yes. It CAN get even worse.........

RANGEL BRAGS THAT DEALMAKERS PRIORITIZED GOP AND K STREET CONCERNS OVER DEM CAUCUS: CongressDaily reports that Rangel bragged to reporters that the reason dealmakers kept negotiations secret - and perhaps the reason why the legislative language remains secret - is because they feared rank-and-file Democrats would oppose the concessions that were needed to appease the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Business Roundtable, GOP Sen. Charles Grassley (IA), GOP Rep. Jim McCrery (LA) and Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-MT), who last year traveled to India to trumpet job outsourcing. "Every time we had them all together, someone jumped off," Rangel told reporters after the meeting, referring to that group. "So we said, we can't wait for the Caucus. When we got everybody holding hands, bam! Seal it and catch hell. We did both." The fact that Rangel now admits the Chamber of Commerce was so intimately involved in the negotiations may explain why the Chamber continues to say it has received "assurances" that the much-touted labor provisions in the deal will be rendered unenforceable.

Jay-Z  Roc Boys   American Gangster  Def Jam  0:06:11 (Real | MP3 | Pop‑up)

John Prine  Pretty Good   John Prine  Atlantic  2:28:28 (Real | MP3 | Pop‑up)

http://wfmu.org/playlists/shows/25136

Israel, US to set up joint committees on Iran: report

Published: Friday November 9, 2007
Israel and the United States have agreed to appoint two working committees in order to hone a joint strategy against Iran's nuclear ambitions, public radio reported on Friday.
Deputy Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz headed discussions on the matter in the United States this week, it said.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Israel_US_t...

"War Is Not The Answer"

OT

That is a good movement yard sign.

Porter Wagoner died recently

Porter Wagoner  Moments Of Meditation   The Rubber Room  Omni  0:23:42 (Real | MP3 | Pop‑up)

Israel and the United States have agreed to appoint two working committees in order to hone a joint strategy against Iran's nuclear ambitions

Israel: OK. We'll bomb them first. Then, when they retaliate, you'll have an ironclad excuse test your new 30,000 lb. bomb on them.

US: Sounds good. 

Israel: When you drop that thing on their nuclear facilites, just make sure the wind is from the west. Our people would get pissed as hell at us if the fallout blew back onto them.

US: No problem. Meeting adjourned. 

Who said, he "wants ''to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks.'' ?

http://wfmu.org/playlists/shows/24987

Here is how lifelong professional politician treats his constituents in the time of threats of his professional career,... such a threats reflected in "representative's" mind as been from "politically paranoid base" .

Don't be surprised when similar attitude will be demonstrated not by such a "bad" guy like Lieberman but by some other "professional representative" when threatened with his/her career.
--------

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/1f8eee44-8e67-11...

By Edward Luce in Washington

Published: November 9 2007 02:00 | Last updated: November 9 2007 02:00

The 2008 Democratic candidates are beholden to a "hyper-partisan, politically paranoid" liberal base that could endanger the final nominee's chances of winning next year's presidential election, Joe Lieberman, the former vice-presidential Democratic candidate, said yesterday.

In his most outspoken attack on fellow Democrats since he was unsuccessfully challenged last year by Ned Lamont, a liberal Democrat, for his Senate seat in Connecticut, Mr Lieberman yesterday said he might not vote for the Democratic presidential nominee next year.

former

>

I pray (G@d) may the Dems strip Lieberman of his committee chairs assign another to the chair Sen Lieberman (R) hold under the current Congress. 

Sam Ross
Sat, 11/10/07
8:47 pm

On the last thread

Prague Philharmonic  Psycho Suite Excerpt   A History of Hitchcock  2:28:43 (Real | MP3 | Pop‑up)

http://wfmu.org/playlists/shows/25078

Boris Karloff and Friends  Ha Ha Ha     2:08:19 (Real | MP3 | Pop‑up)

So far, in Iowa, many have been thanked for the big win in the Congress last election, but not one word of thanks to Howard Dean. In fact there has been no mention of his name.

Maybe he wasn't invited? grrrrr

With all the woes of sin and strife
The world has suffered so long,
Beneath the angels, so much pain
For thousands of years of wrong
And men at war with man hears not
The lovesong the angels bring,
Oh hush the noise ye men of strife
And hear the angels sing

http://76.12.17.68/bonustrack/

"how did this tradition get started?

I'll tell you: I don't know, but it's a tradition"

jack kerouac  american haikus (loop)   in their own voices: a century of recorded poetry (various artists)  rhino word beat  0:04:11 (Real)

I hope the Dems take advantage of The Writers Guild of America (WGA) strike!

The Steve Allen Show

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3215514694346300017&q=jack+kerouac&total=348&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Jack Kerouac Explains On The Road

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3215514694346300017&q=jack+kerouac&total=348&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Beat[(repeat)("Dean and the gang")]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3215514694346300017&q=jack+kerouac&total=348&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Nancy Pelosi into'ing Biden at the JJ diner in Iowa on CSPAN1

NOW, Fred!

Biden

"isn't amazing how these Republicans all get "converted?

It is amazing"

I'd vote for Biden, Dodd, Edwards, Obama, or Clinton.

I like Biden's hair-do.  It's rebellious.

Best snippet from JJ Dinner so far, as bill Richardson left the stage..... "No short haired yellowbellied son of tricky-dicky's gonna mother hubbard soft soap me with just a pocket full of hope money for dope money for rope" ... Thanks so much Mr. Lennon. It was a hell of a ride.

We're gonna have to establish a consensus on ..."

Biden/Dodd08?

or 'Cain/Lieberman08?

Hi, two of my favorite guys.  ♥

Blues for Jack Kerouac

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3215514694346300017&q=jack+kerouac&total=348&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Isreal: We want to bomb!  We want to bomb somebody!---

U.S. Cheney – How about Syria for practice.---

Isreal – O>K>---

U.S. Bush –  Wait – oh – too late..You tipped our hand ---

U.S. Cheney – Nah,  the American people are too stupid,  we’ll say they had nukes in the works, too.---

Isreal – We want to bomb again!---

U.S. Cheney – Well let’s try Iran, it’s a piece of cake - ---

U.S. Bush – uh..I saw a cartoon showin Iran had hunnerds of missiles---.

U.S. Cheney –TRUST my intelligence! ---

U.S. Bush -  uh ..I did that last time and now ma ratins are down…---

Isreal – We want to bomb!---

U.S. Bush – uh…in the cartoon, a hunnerd missiles was aimed at our boats  and a hunnerd  was aimed at Isreal.  And somthin about no oil goin nowhere..---

U.S. Cheney – @#$%  TRUST my intelligence!---

Isreal – uhhhh….O.K., we TRUST your intelligence… but we want you in Israel, just before we bomb.----

No more sleepin' in car

_____________

Jack Kerouac-Last Hotel & Some Of The Dharma

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3215514694346300017&q=jack+kerouac&total=348&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Hi puddle. Interesting times, huh. Joe Biden is So On his best game tonight. At his best he is more "Presidential" than most Presidents. What a performance!

I see there is a congresscritter selling his ass now. 1100 now 12...13...1500...16...1800...1900...sold.. Looks like he has maybe done that before.

The Teaching of the Buddha also has six supreme qualities:

1. (Svakkhato) The Dharma is not a speculative philosophy, but is the Universal Law found through enlightenment and is preached precisely. Therefore it is Excellent in the beginning (Sīla — Moral principles), Excellent in the middle (Samadhi — Concentration) and Excellent in the end (Pańña — Wisdom),
2. (Samditthiko) The Dharma can be tested by practice and therefore he who follows it will see the result by himself through his own experience.
3. (Akāliko) The Dharma is able to bestow timeless and immediate results here and now, for which there is no need to wait until the future or next existence.
4. (Ehipassiko) The Dharma welcomes all beings to put it to the test and come and see for themselves.
5. (Opāneyiko) The Dharma is capable of being entered upon and therefore it is worthy to be followed as a part of one's life.
6. (Paccattam veditabbo viññūnhi) The Dharma can be perfectly realized only by the noble disciples (Ariyas) who have matured and enlightened enough in supreme wisdom.

Knowing these attributes, Buddhists believe that they will attain the greatest peace and happiness through the practice of the Dharma. Each person is therefore fully responsible for himself to put it in the real practice.

Here the Buddha is compared to an experienced and skilful doctor, and the Dharma to proper medicine. However efficient the doctor or wonderful the medicine may be, the patients cannot be cured unless they take the medicine properly. So the practice of the Dharma is the only way to attain the final deliverance of Nibbāna.

These teachings ranged from understanding karma (cause and effect) and developing good impressions in one's mind, to how to reach full enlightenment by recognizing the nature of mind.

@the 22:30 mark

 Charlie Rose: November 29, 1995

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3215514694346300017&q=jack+kerouac&total=348&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

On the Beat Generation...

I'd vote for Biden, Dodd, Edwards, Obama, or Clinton.

The only qualification is a "D"  after the name.

The only qualification is a "D"  after the name.

Well, that is more a question than a statement. 

No! 

Look at the Rs and Ds and tell me there is only a letter.

 There is MORE than a letter, Sitka.  And, BTW, I didn't include Kucinich.

HQ needs to [can, if it can(G@d, I hope it can)] seed our collective vector.

I'm just catching up on some recordings and just saw Keithie's piece on Green week on NBC. And how he highlighted that Mr. Gore said "I CERTAINLY have no plans to go in to government service in any other position". Then Keithie saying..."sooo, CERTAINLY no plans to go to another position, but just no plans to be a candidate"....And then he smiled and wiggled his eyebrows. LOL.....no wonder he teased about the Draft Gore movement.

I wasn't sure how many folks caught that. He CERTAINLY can be definitive when he wants to. :)


...and the movement is moving strong!

...another funny thing. I watched the piece where Keith interviewed Mr. Gore and asked the obvious question and then brought up that he could make the changes on everything he's been talking about from the Oval office......and then if he had a specific date for when he will have a definite answer, in which he said no. Well, Keith was wearing the exact same tie on both shows. Pretty funny.

Grossman is the former president of NBC News and PBS as well as the author of "The Electronic Democracy: Reshaping Democracy in the Information Age."
Grossman: When I was in charge of the news division at NBC which was in the days before G.E. took over and Grant Tinker ran NBC, there's no question that we had - were totally free to do whatever we wanted to do as long as we did it responsibly. And indeed, even when G.E. came in and there were issues such as a major lawsuit involving a libel action, in Las Vegas where we had lost in the initial trial and got a 20 something million dollar verdict against us, G.E. fought very hard and was determined to fight it through to the end and in the end it was overturned. So there was - I can say unequivocally, before G.E. came in there was no interference, no editorial sense of control or limit as long as you acted reasonably and responsibly. In the beginning at G.E. we had some rough patches because they had no real experience with broadcast but they learned very quickly to keep their hands off.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/smoke/interviews/grossman.html

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8353601654894581963

Jack Kerouac 'Charlie Parker'

Yes!  Dharma.  Sleep well...you and me.

JOE BIDEN HAMMERS HILLARY IN POST-DEBATE INTERVIEW (07:31)

YouTube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnO77_7fj...

7.Linda*in*SFNM

Israel, US to set up joint committees on Iran: report

...Deputy Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz headed discussions on the matter in the United States this week, it said

==============

Mofaz was Sharon's defense minister, was jolly about slicing up the West Bank, once remarked happily that "the wall" was being built 15 km inside the green line.

The Israelis policies are trying to wipe the West Bank off the map, but are too smart to say so publicly. They call ethnic cleansing "transfer" - You can't beat them when it comes to spin and PR - The Moslems are too religious to understand that honest people lose in this world.

watching c-span Iowa dem gathering. Four years ago only one candidate inspired anyone....Howard Dean. Where is this year's Dean?

I missed the IA dinner.  So Gravel and Kucinich weren't invited.  Tonight I will keep to myself my thoughts about IA.

Was Howard there?  If not, my thoughts might spill out onto the blog.

*****************************

U.S./Israel joint committees.  Now that we have no more friends at all, these two countries will take down the world if they can.  "Wiped off the map" is a very subjective translation and I feel sure it wasn't even very close to what was said.  And yet, that is Israel's justification for going after Iran.    I read somewhere that the translation was for western public consumption. 

And now our AIPAC senator is threatening to not vote for the dem nominee.  I may not either, but for entirely different reasons.   

"wiped off the map" was thrown at us the way bush suddenly became a war pres.  We've been duped again*****************

******************************
 

"...Did Ahmadinejad really threaten to "wipe Israel off the map" or is this phrase just another jingoistic brand slogan for selling the next war in the Middle East?

The devil is in the detail, wiping Israel off the map suggests a physical genocidal assault, a literal population relocation or elimination akin to what the Nazis did. According to numerous different translations, Ahmadinejad never used the word "map," instead his statement was in the context of time and applied to the Zionist regime occupying Jerusalem. Ahmadinejad was expressing his future hope that the Zionist regime in Israel would fall, not that Iran was going to physically annex the country and its population.

To claim Ahmadinejad has issued a rallying cry to ethnically cleanse Israel is akin to saying that Churchill wanted to murder all Germans when he stated his desire to crush the Nazis. This is about the demise of a corrupt occupying power, not the deaths of millions of innocent people.

The Guardian's Jonathan Steele cites four different translations, from professors to the BBC to the New York Times and even pro-Israel news outlets, in none of those translations is the word "map" used. The closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," or a narrow relative thereof. In no version is the word "map" used or a context of mass genocide or hostile military action even hinted at.

The acceptance of the word "map" seemingly originated with the New York Times, who later had to back away from this false translation. The BBC also wrongly used the word and, in comments to Steele, later accepted their mistake but refused to issue a retraction.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/260107offthemap.htm 

This is everything you might want to know about the "wiped off the map" statement and the egregious translations.  Simply said, Achmadinejad never said any such thing.  But thanks to the American media, the people here now believe that that horrible prez of Iran said exactly that.  Anyone who speaks a language other than English knows how tricky translations can be and how the translator can be very partisan. 

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm 

Seashell....

No, Howard was not to be seen. Now maybe he chose not to go to Iowa, couldn't blame him. Not a mention of his name. Pelosi said she was having a "fabulous" time being speaker. I wonder what she enjoys most. disgusted.

Norman Mailer now on C-Span.

R.I.P. 

I don't remember if McCauliff was present at the JJDinner four years ago. Anyone?

seashell - you know what's scarey?   Some of OUR candidates have stated the same wrong translation from Achmadinejad.  Now THAT makes me nervous. I'm crossing them off my list.  Richardson - first.   Are they intentionally misconstruing it or do they NOT check into facts and accept what the Republican Corporate owned media is telling them....AGAIN.  I will not vote for any of them that are mis-lead this easily or are mis-leading us.  Fool me once....fool them over and over again it seems.   ONE of them should come straight out and tell the media about this mistranslation.    Howard would!   What am I saying - Howard did! - about the war - when Ashcroft was threatening to put us all in jail for being 'unpatriotic and questioning it.     That's why they spent $70 million, paid off the media, re-worked the 'cheer' and at all cost - had to get rid of Dean.  Howard scared the living begeezies out of them.   But Howard got the message out.    Too late, George.   And by the way ...he's baaaaaaaaaack. : ) 

Sam, which other candidates are misquoting Achmadinejad?  There are so many things about most of them that are, IMO, totally unacceptable.

Perhaps

Gore/Kucinich

As for Iowa,  I won't get started except to say that its first in the nation status MUST END. 

NH also needs to go.

Sam, our critters don't even read the bills which at times are hundreds of pages long....on purpose I suspect.

So Pelosi is having a "fabulous" time....in her private jet?  Getting goodies from AIPAC?  BH cozy dinners with the most powerful and most dangerous man  in the world?   

seashell - who's the most dangerous man in the world?  with Pelosi?

I have to do this - my arch-enemy....is back.

This man still takes himself seriously!  I don't.

 “This week is the one-year anniversary of Democrats winning Congress. (and George was so pissed at you for telling him it was a sure Republican win = he pointed his finger at you and said so in his speech).  But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid probably aren't in a celebrating mood”. (YES THEY ARE KARL, I see them smirking)    The goodwill they enjoyed after their victory is gone. (Don’t think so)  Their bright campaign promises are unfulfilled. (Most of them fulfilled, except the ones your friend George and his sheeple voted down or vetoed, but we'll get there)  Democratic leadership is in disarray. (You mean “REPUBLICAN leadership is quitting, resigning, not running again or indicted and you can’t find a candidate to run for President)  “And Congress's approval rating has fallen to its lowest point in history. (IF you check the polls you’ll see that they are ‘leaning towards’ disapproval, counted as disapproval.  And the Democrats have MUCH higher ratings in every category than the Republicans.  Who would you vote for in 2008 ?   Poll says – DEMOCRATS by 15 points the last time I looked! )

.........“Democrats promised "civility and bipartisanship." Instead, they stiff-armed their Republican colleagues, (Huh!….Stiff armed, you mean like stiff lipping threatened VETOS?)   “refused to include them in budget negotiations between the two houses,(if true, THANK GOD)  “and have launched more than 400 investigations and made more than 675 requests for documents, interviews or testimony   (It’s not OUR fault if you’re all crooks… it’s about time someone stopped you guys…. the Republicans have lost or can’t find millions of emails (must keep by law) and documents that prove your guilt.  “I can’t recall, it’s too SECRET to tell the Congress, ‘ we can’t find them” ).

........"Even worse, the Democrats have made clear all their talk about "fiscal discipline" is just that—talk.   (That’s right Jack..I mean Karl.  We want to spend money to keep children WELL…and better protect our country from terrorism, instead of ‘breeding it around the world” like you and George have.  LEFT you a dam surplus and now we have the biggest DEFICIT…and Karl, check out the economy.) 

...."Democrats had a moment after the 2006 election, but now that moment has passed. They've squandered it. They have demonstrated both the inability and unwillingness to govern. Instead, after more than a decade in the congressional minority, they reflexively look for short-term partisan advantage and attempt to appease the party's most strident fringe. (that’s me, a strident fringe, the BIG SF : ) Now that Democrats have the reins of congressional power, their true colors are coming out and the public doesn't like what it sees."  ...(I see your truuuuuue colors....shinin thru...)

Better represents your own personal values:  Democrats – 50%  Republicans – 40% Nov. Republican Party Approve 39%:  Disapprove – 56% ABC/WaPost POLL

As for Iowa,  I won't get started except to say that its first in the nation status MUST END.

If Iowans really want an exclusionary caucus system that drives down particpation and is manipulated by insiders, maybe they should have it. But the rest of the political system shouldn't be under the dominion of it.

Downplaying expectations.....

Clinton fundraiser and adviser Terry McAuliffe downplayed the importance of Iowa during a press conference before the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner here.

"There's not one state that anyone particularly has to win," he said. "Nobody has to win or lose this state. You gotta run a national campaign."

And why downplay???

He also shrugged off a recent drop in poll numbers. 

Good morning, everybody

The head is all a-jumble this morning.  May have something to do with the fact that I still haven't written up a summary of our Wednesday link-up and there's still more to say about last weekend's events..

Then there's my new meme about the Cotton Candy Candidates.  Wonder if the county fair season is over everywhere, or just in New England.  Will have to check calendars.

Cotton candy!  How sweet it is, but you don't want to let the kids in the car with it and bring it home.  Feel that way about the Democratic front-runners?

Finally, there's the "autocrats of wealth by stealth" meme.  Perhaps "aristocrats" would be better.  But aristocrats are bred to behave with more class.  They are not brash and rude and condescending.   

Bluehampshire just crashed Firefox with ads from blogads.  So, I lost what I was writing.  It was about not responding to fundraising from the DCCC.  Instead of pretending they're the DNC, they're now suggesting that the money will go to local candidates.  "Keeping the democratic majority in Barrington" for example.  This approach is puzzling to people who know there's only a handful of democrats in their community.  LOL

I guess the Iowa cornballs don't see anything wrong with excluding Mike and Dennis from their precious dinner. Makes about as much sense as excluding Veterans for Peace from Veterans day marches.

Oh wait, they did that!

I see the blog clock is 17 minutes behind again. What is it with th techies?

It's now 7:19

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22918

A sunday sweet. 

GORE VIDAL ON DENNIS

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_gore_vid_071110_dennis_kucinich.htm

As I pass through the stage door of one auditorium after another, I now hear the ominous name of Darth Vader, as edgy audiences shudder at the horrible direction our political discourse has taken. Ever eager as I am to shed light, I sometimes drop the name of the least publicized applicant to the creaky throne of the West: Dennis Kucinich. It takes a moment for the name to sink in. Then genuine applause begins. He is very much a favorite out there in the amber fields of grain, and I work him into the text. A member of the House of Representatives for five terms since 1997, although many of his legislative measures have been too useful and original for our brain-dead media to comprehend. I note his well-wrought articles proposing the impeachment of Vice President Cheney, testing the patriotic nerves of his fellow Democrats, but then the fact of his useful existence often causes distress to those who genuinely hate that democracy he is so eager to extend. "Don't waste your vote," they whine in unison--as if our votes are not quadrennially wasted on those marvelous occasions when they are actually counted and recorded.

Kucinich is opposed to the death penalty as well as the USA Patriot Act. In 1998 and 2004 he was a US delegate to the United Nations convention on climate change. At home he has been active in Rust Belt affairs, working to preserve the ninety-year-old Cleveland steel industry, a task of the sort that will confront the next President should he or she have sufficient interest in these details.

I asked a dedicated liberal his impression of Kucinich; he wondered if Kucinich was too slight to lead a nation of truly fat folk. I pointed out that he has the same physical stature as James Madison, as well as a Madisonian commitment to our 1789 Constitution; he is also farsighted, as demonstrated by his resolute opposition to Bush's cries for ever more funding for the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. More to the point, in October 2002 he opposed the notion of a war then being debated. For those of us at home and in harm's way from disease, he co-wrote HR 676, a bill that would insure all of us within Medicare, just as if we were citizens of a truly civilized nation.

HIGHTOWER

http://www.hightowerlowdown.org/about

Having done so well in Iraq, George W and Cheney are pushing feverishly to hype up a national-security threat and commit our nation, our bedraggled military, our depleted treasury, and our country's already-tarnished name to another of their fantasyland, neocon, preemptive invasions of a sovereign people who are doing no harm to us. Their target this time: IRAN.

8:17

by Gordon Phillips

In a democracy, voters live under the illusion of self-rule. But how can one
rule himself when he is continually voting away his rights and property to
others? Or when others are continuously stripping away his own rights and
property?

Freedom is impossible without private property, yet most Americans have been
brainwashed by government-credentialed institutions to believe (not think) that
mass acceptance of democracy equals freedom, resulting in the majority selling
its birthright of liberty (rights and property) for a bowl of porridge (Social
Security, Medicare, food stamps, free cheese).

We have devolved from eagles into lemmings in just eleven generations.

Democracy shares many characteristics with its more outwardly totalitarian
equivalents, including 'public education' (translate: government mind-
conditioning) of those children who survive abortion. Yet Socialism is no less
tyrannical when viewed as government benevolence by numbed, compliant minds.

Simple equality before the written law has been replaced with mandated equality
of outcome in every area of life, proving to the global elite that it is
possible to homogenize and re-educate (condition) an entire nation to think in
terms of forced sameness (democracy) as freedom.

The following is reproduced from a chapter titled 'Republic vs. Democracy' from
my book, 'Losing Your Illusions':

Most adult Americans living today started out each school day as young children
by pledging allegiance to the flag '... and to the Republic for which it
stands.' Can you imagine pledging '.. and to the Democracy for which it stands?'

Yet President Clinton and most of our elected politicians keep referring to
America as a 'Democracy.' No doubt this is because they weren't taught the
difference under government-funded, outcome-based public 'education.' And their
parents and teachers probably weren't taught the difference either. The
Founders knew the difference, however.

James Madison warned: 'Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and
contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the
rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they
have been violent in their deaths.'

Alexander F. Tyler stated: 'A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of
government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote
themselves largess out of the treasury with the result that democracies always
collapse over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship.'

Fisher Ames stated: 'Liberty has never lasted long in a democracy, nor has it
ever ended in anything better than despotism.'

Samuel Adams stated: 'Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes itself,
exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not
commit suicide.'

As Benjamin Franklin emerged from Independence Hall in Philadelphia, he was
asked by an onlooker what form of government he and his countrymen had created
during the first and to date, only constitutional convention. His answer: 'A
Republic, if you can keep it.'

The Founders understood that there is a spectrum of Liberty that spans a
gradient from anarchy, which is 0% government and 100% Liberty, to
totalitarianism, which is 100% government and 0% Liberty. On this scale,
Democracy is past the center and heading towards increasing government and
Socialism. A little further past Socialism and you reach Fascism and then true
totalitarianism -- 100% government and zero individual Liberty.

Bear in mind that not all republics have a written constitution. Remember the
USSR -- the United Soviet Socialist Republic? A constitutionally limited
republic, with restrictions that properly limit government, provides for the
protection of life and property yet still preserves individual liberty.

Many in America today already view our present government as Democratic
Socialism, just a step away from the pure Socialism practiced in countries such
as Sweden. Many of today's alert students of recent history see numerous,
uncanny parallels between Germany in the 1930's and America in the 1990's.

Good government is based on the collective right of self-defense where each
Citizen is in the law enforcement business and stands as an armed shield
against government tyranny.

Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis wrote: 'Experience should teach us to be
most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are
beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their
liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in
insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding.'

Our Founders designed America as a constitutional Republic under the rule of
written Law, not a Democracy under the rule of opinion or public policy
guidelines. A vast ocean of difference separates the two forms of government.

As students of history, the Founders knew that democracies always degenerate
into favoritism, special interest groups, mob rule, and, ultimately, tyranny
due to a majority of the uninformed public consistently and predictably voting
to reelect those politicians who would guarantee them the redistribution of
public wealth.

They knew that a Republic protects minority individuals against a malicious and
willful majority. A perfect, if somewhat cynical, definition of a Democracy is
two ravenous wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for breakfast.

Explaining the disaster that a Democracy can become, Karl Marx, known as
the 'Father of Communism' and himself a student of political science,
stated: 'Democracy is a form of government that cannot long survive, for as
soon as the people learn that they have a voice in the fiscal policies of the
government, they will move to vote for themselves all the money in the treasury
and bankrupt the nation.'

Even our military command knows the difference. The United States Army training
manual number 2000-25, dated November 20, 1928 states in defining a Democracy:

'A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meetings or any
other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude towards
property is communistic; negative property rights. Attitude toward law is that
the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation
of the governed by passion, prejudice and impulse with-out restraint; or regard
to consequences. It results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent,
anarchy.'

This same 1928 Army training manual had the following to say about a Re-
public: 'Authority is derived through the election by the people of public
officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward property is respect
for laws and individual rights and economic procedure. Attitude toward law is
the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established
evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. Avoids the dangerous extreme of
tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice,
contentment and progress. It is the ‘standard form’ of government.'

So apparently, our military does understand the advantages of a representative,
republican form of government over raw democracy. A constitutional Republic,
vigilantly guarded by an informed and enlightened electorate and represented
not by politicians, but by statesmen who would tirelessly defend Liberty and
Property, stands a fighting chance of not deteriorating into a Democracy.

Remember this the next time a TV newsreader extols the virtue of the recent
imposition of Democracy in some emerging nation, or a public figure wants to
pick your pocket to make the world 'safe for Democracy.' Under a Democracy, one
can appear to be free but can never truly be at Liberty as under a Republic.

Always keep in mind that the perfect slave is one who believes he is free.
Under a Democracy, we apparently need bureaucratic swarms of self-annointed
responsibility consultants to decide what is in the public's best interest to
read, view, inhale, ingest, inject, etc.

Under a condition of true Liberty, however, a medical practitioner could hang a
sign on his door exclaiming: 'Quack! Come On In And I'll Remove Your Appendix!'
Since the public would be expected to be responsible for their own actions,
there would be no need for bureaucrats, agencies, regulations and licensing to
protect them; since they could choose not to patronize the quack simply by
voting with their feet.

«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«
Let's INFORM AMERICA together! Tell a friend...
http://www.informamerica.com/news/tellaf...
«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«»«

A few quotes from our founding fathers about "Democracy":


Washington, George, VA
------------------------------
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon, and citizen's firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes; we need them every hour.

If men are to be precluded from offering their sentiments on a matter which may involve the most serious and alarming consequences that can invite the consideration of mankind, reason is of no use; the freedom of speech may be taken away, and dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.




Franklin, Benjamin, PA
------------------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.



Madison, James, VA
------------------------------
In the extent and proper structure of the Union, therefore, we behold a republican remedy for the diseases most incident to republican government. And according to the degree of pleasure and pride we feel in being republicans, ought to be our zeal in cherishing the spirit and supporting the character of Federalists.

Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions.

We are right to take alarm at the first experiment upon our liberties.

There is no maxim, in my opinion, which is more liable to be misapplied, and which, therefore, more needs elucidation, than the current one, that the interest of the majority is the political standard of right and wrong.

The people are the only legitimate fountain of power, and it is from them that the constitutional charter, under which the several branches of government hold their power, is derived.

The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

This was the only defence agst. the inconveniencies of democracy consistent with the democratic form of Govt. All civilized Societies would be divided into different Sects, Factions, & interests, as they happened to consist of rich & poor, debtors & creditors, the landed, the manufacturing, the commercial interests, the inhabitants of this district or that district, the followers of this political leader or that political leader, the disciples of this religious Sect or that religious Sect. In all cases where a majority are united by a common interest or passion, the rights of the minority are in danger. What motives are to restrain them?



Hamilton, Alexander, NY
------------------------------
It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.



Morris, Gouverneur, PA
------------------------------
Our Democrats are split... between those who have got into power and those who are getting into power on the shoulders of the mob. By this word mob, I mean not so much as the indigent as the vicious, hot-headed, and inconsiderate part of the community, together with that numerous host of tools which knaves do work with called fools. These folks are the majority of all empires, kingdoms, and commonwealths, and, of course, when not restrained by political institutions or coerced by an armed force, possess the efficient power. And as power so possessed must needs be abused, it follows, in direct consequence, that the affairs of democracy will ever be in the hands of weak and wicked men, unless when distress or danger shall compel a reluctant people to choose wise and virtuous administration.



John Adams:
------------------------------
"Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."

Thomas Jefferson:
------------------------------
"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society."

"[The purpose of a written constitution is] to bind up the several branches of government by certain laws, which, when they transgress, their acts shall become nullities; to render unnecessary an appeal to the people, or in other words a rebellion, on every infraction of their rights, on the peril that their acquiescence shall be construed into an intention to surrender those rights."

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under it leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble opinion, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

Edmund Randolph:
------------------------------
"Our chief danger arises from the democratic parts of our [state] constitutions . . . .None of the constitutions have provided sufficient checks


------------------------------

NO, I really don't think we want to make the world safe for democracy, as democracy is not safe for the world. We are not a democracy, never have been, and were never intended to be one. Go read your history books again as this whole website and its lemmings only show their ignorance by promoting "Democracy".

You want to quote James Madison?

Try this:

http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10...

The Federalist No. 10
The Utility of the Union as a Safeguard Against Domestic Faction and Insurrection (continued)
Daily Advertiser
Thursday, November 22, 1787
[James Madison]
To the People of the State of New York:

"...it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking. Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy, and we shall comprehend both the nature of the cure and the efficacy which it must derive from the Union."

All of our founding fathers despised "Democracy".
Go read your history.

Musharraf sets no end to emergency rule By MATTHEW PENNINGTON, Associated Press Writer
19 minutes ago

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Pakistan's military ruler said Sunday elections would be held by January but set no time limit on emergency rule that has suspended citizens' rights, claiming it was essential for fighting terrorism and ensuring a free and fair vote.

------

In Occupied Territories-East, it still appears that the Bush administration is endorsing the actions of the dictatorship. I don't know how we can float that with so much freedom going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Weather Channel Founder: Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History'

Newsbusters | November 9, 2007
Noel Sheppard

If the founder of The Weather Channel spoke out strongly against the manmade global warming myth, might media members notice?

We're going to find out the answer to that question soon, for John Coleman wrote an article published at ICECAP Wednesday that should certainly garner attention from press members -- assuming journalism hasn't been completely replaced by propagandist activism, that is.

Coleman marvelously began (emphasis added, h/t NB reader coffee250):

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create in [sic] allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the "research" to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild "scientific" scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmental conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minutes documentary segment.

[...]

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious.

Let's hope so, John; let's hope so.

70.

LZ XRAY
Sun, 11/11/07
8:58 am

Musharraf sets no end to emergency rule....

------

In Occupied Territories-East, it still appears that the Bush administration is endorsing the actions of the dictatorship. I don't know how we can float that with so much freedom going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

********

...lol, such a "freedom" stops at no borders.

The "no end to emergency rule" was set recently by new Bush&Co.'s friend, President of Georgia (south state of former Soviet Union).

NYT ON COWARDLY DEMS

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/opinion/11sun1.html?ref=opinion

As we have seen most recently with the vote to confirm Michael Mukasey as attorney general, about all that is left of “advice and consent” is the “consent” part.

Before George W. Bush’s presidency, those other things actually counted. Was the nominee truly qualified, with a professional background worthy of the job? Would he discharge his duties fairly and honorably, upholding his oath to protect the Constitution? Even though she answers to the president, would the nominee represent all Americans? Would he or she respect the power of Congress to supervise the executive branch, and the power of the courts to enforce the rule of law?

At first, Mr. Bush was abetted by a slavish Republican majority that balked at only one major appointment — Harriet Miers for Supreme Court justice, and then only because of doubts that she was far enough to the right.

The Democrats, however, also deserve a large measure of blame. They did almost nothing while they were in the minority to demand better nominees than Mr. Bush was sending up. And now that they have attained the majority, they are not doing any better.

On Thursday, the Senate voted by 53 to 40 to confirm Mr. Mukasey even though he would not answer a simple question: does he think waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning used to extract information from a prisoner, is torture and therefore illegal?

Democrats offer excuses for their sorry record, starting with their razor-thin majority. But it is often said that any vote in the Senate requires more than 60 votes — enough to overcome a filibuster. So why did Mr. Mukasey get by with only 53 votes? Given the success the Republicans have had in blocking action when the Democrats cannot muster 60 votes, the main culprit appears to be the Democratic leadership, which seems uninterested in or incapable of standing up to Mr. Bush.

We are not suggesting the Democrats reject every presidential appointee, or that the president’s preferences not be taken into account. But Democrats have done precious little to avoid the kind of spectacle the world saw last week: the Senate giving the job of attorney general, chief law enforcement officer in the world’s oldest democracy, to a man who does not even have the integrity to take a stand against torture.

67.  the only difference between a Democracy and a Republic is that one word is rooted in Greek and the other in Latin.  It's a linguistic distinction much as the one that differentiates an apple from a pomme.

The power to govern adheres to the people.  They delegate that power to agents who are supposed to carry out the will of the people.  The Constitution sets strict limits on the powers these agents can exercise.  Their duties, however, can logically multiply as the size of the territory, the size of the population and the connectedness to the rest of the globe increases.

Self-control, btw, has nothing to do with assets, property or wealth.  It is, however, antagonistic towards being restricted by others.  That's where the loss of liberty lies. 

In case you can't play the video, Chris Dodd was introduced by our nemesis, Nancy Pelosi.

LOL

waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning used to extract information from a prisoner

In testimony before Congress, a former military instructor who taught techniques to resist such torture said that waterboarding is not  "simulated" drowning, but in fact, actual drowning where the victim doesn't always die. He also said that the term "waterboarding" is inaccurate and the practice should be called "drowning torture."

Once again we have been duped into using the bad guys' framing, which makes this form of torture sound benign and harmless and therefor less unacceptable.

I made the point the other day that what's being inflicted is a near-death experience whose effect on the circuits of the brain is to make them permanently unreliable.  One suspects that perhaps the intent is to influence the behavior of spectators who might want to avoid a similar fate.

Speaking of framing, the video on the previous thread just about put the nail into the coffin of "choice."  

A great video.

"Something other than other".

http://current.com/items/76303482_someth...



Have a nice day.

> Subject: Patriotism?
>
> Here is a photo you need to see.
>
> Senator Barack Obama, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Hillary Clinton and
> Ruth Harkin stand during the national anthem.
>
> Barack Hussein Obama's photo (that's his real name)......the article said he
> REFUSED TO NOT ONLY PUT HIS HAND ON HIS HEART DURING THE PLEDGE OF
> ALLEGIANCE, BUT REFUSED TO SAY THE PLEDGE.....how in the hell can a man like
> this expect to be our next Commander-in-Chief????
>

---

Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today!

Morning Folks,

Just a quick drop in.  Thanks, Huron John, for posting the NYTimes editorial.  Glad they published it.  Maybe this travesty will have some legs.

Was thinking this morning, that perhaps our Howard Dean has had his moment in the sun, and a crucial one it was.  Like Eugene McCarthy before him, he spoke truth to power in plain language we needed to hear.  The reverberations of Howard Dean's words still echo today in all the candidates running for office.  A democracy, which Gore Vidal in the You Tube interview waid is lost, and it may well be, cannot sustain lies and obfuscation.  Howard Dean, the healer, recognized that, put himself on the line, took the attacks, and continued on.  He is a hero in my mind, and I'm grateful.

I suspect, however, his moment as far as being a presidential candidate has probalby passed.  Look at your high school graudating class.  How many of them were to be movers and shakers?  How many of them were good people, but didn't pay much attention to politics, didn't read much, weren't particualry articulate?  That's probably the make-up of most of the people of this country.

And, as to spin, money, ambition, ego, I'm inclined to think we need a President who doesn't want to be President.

Thanks to the blogger who posted the Gore Vidal You Tube interview.

You're welcome Pat in CO.

and for anyone else who wants to see it.

Gore Vidal on the Condition of America
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/oct...

...or the direct video link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DExUerKZu...://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2007/071007Vidal.htm

And for folks who may have missed some news this week, brought to you in NewsBlast by Current, please note the end video of Georgian TV being seized and shut down, because they weren't "conforming".

...so much for Democratic Georgia. And at least there was no illusion at honest media...unlike here, Bush Admin seized control through complicit Corporate Execs and let folks continue believing it was free media.


http://current.com/items/87123211_newsbl...

DANIEL ROONEY
Sun, 11/11/07
12:04 pm

That is sick...and you have completely lowered yourself to gutter for posting this fear-mongering hate piece. Not doing much for your Republican-Libertarian candidate.

Obama did a very fine interview with Russert. There are good candidates to choose from.

Obama's interview was ok, not great. He was under the gotcha gun by Timmy, and responded well. But he speaks in a faltering tone which is not flattering. His responses were often weak, not strongly worded. He will be 54 in 2016 and ready for the Presidency after some more national seasoning.

 Edwards / Obama in 2008

Obama in 2016.

That ought to be enough to try to correct the wrongs of the Bushes. At least some of them. We'll never get the lives of those killed back.

Whatever happened to our Sunday news thread...it seems the blog threads have lost their customary tones. Sigh. Does anyone watch those any more?

Streetcars roll again in New Orleans

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/11/katrina.streetcar.ap/index.html

94.  there were many objections to the promotion of the CM on Sunday morn.

Daniel - I saw a RECALL on that propoganda.   He didn't put his hand on his heart during the 'Stars and STripes".  

Veteran's Day

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers……….

The Cost of War – PBS

Thousands of injured and ill soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan are not being counted in the Pentagon's official tally of the wounded because they are considered "non-hostile" casualties. Some say that if they were included, it would triple the total casualty count. The Pentagon claims that until NOW's request, it hadn't been asked for those numbers. But, critics say these often debilitating injuries are not being reported in order to keep Americans from getting a clear picture of the human cost of war http://www.pbs.org/now/society/casualties.html

World War II:  Battle deaths:  291,557 --  Other deaths: 113,842 –Wounded  671,846

Korean War:  Battle deaths: 33,741-- Other deaths: in theater  2,833 ---Non theater 17,672 Wounded: 103,284 

Viet Nam War:   Battle deaths:  47,424 --other deaths in theater 10,785 -- non theater 32,000-- Wounded 153,303

Gulf War:  Battle deaths:  147-- Other in theater 382-- non-theater 1,565---  Wounded 467 http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html

IRAQ:   Battle Deaths: US:  3680 --- UK  171 – Other 133 – Self Inflicted  131 Wounded:  No transport required  19,871---Transport required  8,580---Non-hostile medical transport 29,584---Non-hostile injuries transport 7,768-----Disease/Other transport  21,8l6   http://icasualties.org/oef/ 

AFGHANISTAN:  Battle deaths:  U.S. killed - 465:   Other -  264 – Wounded 1049

One Hundred Security Companies in Iraq:  1001 killed, government figures show.

93.

I thought Obama did very well. The hesitancy in his voice is just the way he speaks at all times. Howard stumbles, Obama hesitates, Hillary is slooooow and has a boring tone. Every style is different.

Barack's answers never left Russert with any ammunition which is what he and Blitzer are always about -- something they can go out and claim someone said -- but it's almost always taken out of context. Obama doesn't play their game.

I thought at the JD Dinner last night, Edwards gave the speech of his life -- very impressive with plenty of passion to win the presidency which I used to fault him on.

77.  The NYT has chutzpah.  Whom are they pandering to?  I clearly heard Mukasey say that torture is abhorrent to him.  But, we need to keep in mind that a nation which approves of official killing, might well have declared torture legal, as well.  BTW, prisoners are being tortured in our prisons and jails all the time.  Need I remind you that the "capture hoods" are an off-the-shelf item which the DoD obviously sent over in batches to Iraq.  Not to mention that our agents of law enforcement kill people whom they perceive as a threat on a rather regular basis and are exonerated as a matter of routine.

You know, it wasn't so long ago that it was considered legal, if not a virtue, for a husband to "discipline" a spouse who did not comply with the promise that she "love, honor and obey" his commands.  We've got a long history of legal subjugation.  Children still have no rights.  If their parents abuse them, it's a social infraction--a failure to carry out the responsibilties the community (state) expects.  The presumption that parents love their children carries the same weight as the presumption that the officers of law enforcement are doing their best to protect the state. 

Indy, I think Daniel was quoting someone else and didn't give a link. Notice all the little marks in front.

That said, this whole drivel about hearts and hands and pledges is absurd.  Our critters swear on the bible and then do what they please.  However, the pledge does say, "and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands..."

The blog weekend auto pilot doesn't seem to have clicked in this morning.

My question of the day: (Phil please correct me if the Iowa procedures differ from what I think they are.)

Hillary must win more than 50% of the "vote" in Iowa to win outright there. If she doesn't do that, then there are a number of scenarios that could happen.

I heard that Biden will be dropping out if his numbers are up after last night. Having made no big impression we can assume he will be out by Jan 3.

So that leaves those who may throw their votes to other candidates. Where Dodd's will go I couldn't guess. Kucinich may give his to Edwards or Obama. Richardson's may go to Hillary.

That leaves Clinton, Obama and Edwards to duke it out. To beat Clinton, BO and JE will need to collaborate with each other by agreeing that whoever gets the most votes will throw them to the other, thereby aceing out Clinton. They would have to have a lot of trust in each other for that to happen.

JE or BO could also collarborate with Clinton, hope for the VP spot and go on to take their chances in the other states where, if HC has already won Iowa, she could be a shoein. Show's over!

However, if neither JE or BO trust Clinton to offer them a VP spot, they may all just accept wherever they end up in Iowa and move on to NH, SC etc.

Whatdyathink, if anything?

Just after the completion and signing of the Constitution, in reply to a woman's inquiry as to the type of government the Founders had created, Benjamin Franklin said, "A Republic, if you can keep it."

A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the Constitution). A democracy is direct government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the inalienable rights of individuals while democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs (the public good).

************************************** 

We've obviously moved into dictatorship since we no longer uphold the rule of law (republic) and the will of the majority no longer prevails since Congress ignores us.  Democracy is no longer in play either since the public will and good is ignored in favor of the wants of the few.

We don't have a constitutional democracy, nor a constitutional monarchy since bush declared the Constitution "just a gd piece of paper."  

So we're left with the decline of the American *empire* calling it whatever you want.  History, if told honestly, will compare putz to Nero or Caligula and then show photos of him playing a *git'tar* while NOLA was drowning.

If cheney is impeached, putz will fall since he can't hold up his own strings. 

Go, Kucinich.

And shame on Iowa.  I heard Pelosi say at the dinner that this was the kick off to the IA caucusus.  And Dennis and Mike were excluded.  What freedom?  None.  Zip.  Toast.  In my opinion, IA politics is a dirty as it gets. 

After the fiasco in 2004 and the quick annointing of Kerry, who made sure that this antiquated and unfair practice would continue into 2008?  The Clinton machine? 

A quick aside was made before Pelosi"s fist pounding speech that Mike and Dennis were picketing outside. The response to that was to ignore it and move into a different subject.

How dear of Nancy to tell us she's having a "fabulous" time while our soldiers are dying, maimed, already on the streets homeless...while we don't have  national health  etc etc etc.  I had to turn her off and missed all the speeches.

I think that if the top 3 are left, we're in trouble, becuz once again, 70% of us have been ignored.  None of the *top 3* will commit to removing the troops completely and the year 2013 was floated.

We're a disgrace as a nation, not only for our elections, but for our AG appointments and shredding of our Constitution and torture policies.  Obama and Clinton will never get my vote since they openly kiss the AIPAC ass.  Actually, Edwards does too doesn't he?

Vote NO for president and form a new gov't, perhaps a parliament.  This one is dead.

Gore/Kucinich

Joan* In*Florida
Sun, 11/11/07
1:43 pm

Joan,

I think those who don't make it to the threshold will go this way: Richardson to Clinton, Kucinich to Edwards, Dodd to both. So it's kind of a wash.

I can't see Edwards and Obama "making a deal" before Feb. 5. They are both running legit campaigns and will continue to do so. I do see voters who don't want Clinton making a choice, though. And deciding there is only one viable alternative to Clinton.

I'll go out on a limb and say that Iowa voters will do that and EITHER Edwards or Obama will beat Clinton 2.0 and she'll come in second. The third place one will fade after Iowa like Dean did and it will be a two-way race.

seashell :-)
Sun, 11/11/07
2:16 pm

That's wrong. Edwards has committed to removing all troops (he was inaccurately lumped in with the other two) except those necessary to protect the embassy which is normal. he will not keep combat troops in Iraq to pursue Al Qaida.

Clinton will continue combat operations and Obama said today on MTP that he would as well against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

Steve,

Your scenarios sound logical to me. Thanks.

104.

And that's before you even posted them:))

CLINTON and OBAMA support Peru Trade Agreement. EDWARDS opposes...

A split among the Democratic presidential candidates, who receive support from unions but also from export-oriented industries, mirrors the disagreement in Congress. Senator Barack Obama of Illinois endorses the Peru deal, which is due to come before the Senate this year, while former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina opposes it as part of his populist anti-establishment campaign.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York said on Thursday that she would vote for the Peru deal, but she has sent mixed signals on the overall issue. . She has asked, for example, for a review of the North America trade agreement negotiated by her husband, and she said she would vote against several coming trade accords.

Here is full article showing who stands with Big Business on trade and who stands with workers and the middle class. The labor provisions are terribly weak and unenforceable.

Trade Accord Causes a Split of Democrats

WASHINGTON, Nov. 8 — Has the Democratic Party gone soft on trade? Or has it opened a bitter internal split that could come back to haunt the party in the coming elections?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/09/washington/09trade.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

106.

Has he changed his mind since Sep 7?

Edwards Would Continue Combat Missions Against Al-Qaeda In Iraq

On September 7, John Edwards announced his plan to continue combat missions against al-Qaeda in Iraq:

Edwards: "Even though the presence of U.S. troops has served as an attractive target for terrorists, our eventual withdrawal will not remove the threat. As president, I will redeploy troops into Quick Reaction Forces outside of Iraq, to perform targeted missions against Al Qaeda cells and to prevent a genocide or regional spillover of a civil war."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3699858

s m
Sun, 11/11/07
2:52 pm

You do realize you are quoting a BLOG POST by a Clinton supporter, don't you? Edwards has been misquoted many times. He will remove all combat troops from Iraq. Clinton and Obama will keep them there to fight AQ.

Here is Edwards' response to Clinton's support for more NAFTA-like trade deals:

Update: Mr. Edwards quickly issued a missive against Mrs. Clinton, tying her support for the Peru pact to another one of his major lines of attack against her — that she is too close to lobbyists:

I am terribly disappointed by Senator Clinton’s support for the Peru trade deal. At a time when millions of Americans are concerned about losing their jobs and the economy, it is dismaying that Senator Clinton would side with corporations,

oops, full quote of Edwards....

Update: Mr. Edwards quickly issued a missive against Mrs. Clinton, tying her support for the Peru pact to another one of his major lines of attack against her — that she is too close to lobbyists:

I am terribly disappointed by Senator Clinton’s support for the Peru trade deal. At a time when millions of Americans are concerned about losing their jobs and the economy, it is dismaying that Senator Clinton would side with corporations, their lobbyists, and the Bush Administration in support of a flawed trade deal that expands the NAFTA model.

Waoh (or however you spell it) -- this sounds momentous -- altho the Supremes seem to always rule on some arcane technicality, thus skirting whatever the issue is.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071111/ts_...

US right to bear arms may get its day in court
by Fanny Carrier Sun Nov 11, 3:37 AM ET
WASHINGTON (AFP) - For the first time in 70 years, the US Supreme Court may decide next week whether to examine the question of the right to bear arms, something which is fiercely upheld by millions of Americans.

The US capital of Washington, which is trying to stem a wave of violence in its seedier neighborhoods, has lodged a case with the nine Supreme Court judges seeking to maintain its three-decade ban on individuals carrying handguns.

The judges were due to have an initial discussion on Friday, and their decision on whether or not to examine the question could be announced as early as Tuesday.

The case goes right to the heart of the American constitution, which in its second amendment declares that: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Washington, which is also home to the president and the government, has interpreted the amendment to mean that there is a collective right to bear arms for those who are part of a police force or a security force.

But since 1976, it has banned residents from carrying handguns, although they are allowed to keep a rifle or hunting gun in their homes, providing it is locked and not loaded.

For millions of Americans though, and especially the powerful gun lobby represented by the National Rifle Association, the second amendment guarantees the right of every American citizen to own any gun, with few limits.

110.

How convenient when you don't like what your candidate saids to state he was misquoted.

After withdrawal, Edwards believes that sufficient forces should remain in the region to contain the conflict and ensure that instability in Iraq does not spillover and create a regional war, a terrorist haven, or spark a genocide. In addition, Edwards believes the U.S. should step up our diplomatic efforts by engaging in direct talks with all the nations in the region, including Iran and Syria and work to bring about a political solution to the sectarian violence inside Iraq, including through a peace conference. He also believes the U.S. must intensify its efforts to train the Iraqi security forces.

http://johnedwards.com/news/headlines/20070214-iraq-plan/

John Edwards 2008:  What's Not To Like

http://jre-whatsnottolike.com/category/senate-voting-record/

This is from senate voting records - no misquotes.

I'm hoping those of you rejecting the top three have Edwards or Obama as your second choice. I still expect a three way tie in Iowa. Iowa awards the allocation of delegates in proportion to support after giving those under 15% a chance to re-align.

I expect three different winners in the first three states and South Carolina to be the "bounce" state going into the fifth of Feb.

Iowa is that little trampoline for slam dunk contests for white guys that can't jump.

troop withdrawal by Obama was laid out very clearly this morning

the war will end if he is elected

I'm still for Edwards, Steve, don't panic,

118.  There is no war--yet.  If Iran finds it necessary to take out the bases with missiles, there will be.

Three little words lead me to discount Edwards:

combat

permanent

training 

Joan

 if Hillary gets a single additional delegate from the 1734 sites she will "win" even if the vote is so split that is 31% of the delegates. 

115.

This is from senate voting records - no misquotes

Not exactly s m.

This may or may not be Edwards voting records but it is from Blog at WordPress.com which may or may not be a quote. Blogs can say anything they want.

You must go directly to senate records to get voting records.

It is important to distinquish what those not in Congress say about troop withdrawal becaue they have no say before 2009.

Richardson runs in Iowa as the Out. Now. guy yet he too doesn't have to say what he would do with the current funding bill.

For the record:

Senator Chris Dodd today released the following statement voicing his opposition to Peru Free Trade Agreement, which would take jobs away from American workers and send them to Peruvian workers instead.

"Americans are looking for change - but there's nothing new in supporting the failed trade policy of the last six years, which is partially responsible for the loss of 3 million manufacturing jobs. It's disappointing that Senators Clinton and Obama, in supporting this agreement, would support more of the same, which will only add to our deficit, taking jobs away from hardworking Americans and shipping them elsewhere.

"The United States must take a "strategic pause" and not sign any new trade agreements until we have a model for trade that raises -- not lowers -- living standards for the vast majority of Americans and the people in countries with which we trade. It's time to put the interests of our own people ahead of the interests of large corporations and give American families the reassurance that 'Made in America' means that their children will not be poisoned by imports."

Clinton will continue combat operations and Obama said today on MTP that he would as well against "Al Qaida in Iraq".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

so will Edwards just from Kuwait, Steve

Obama and Clinton vary more than Edwards and Obama that way but Dodd and Biden as well have said they will continue operations against al Queda

121.

Phil,

I'm still confused! Doesn't the winner in Iowa need a majority (50%+)?

And what does the 1734 sites you mentioned refer to?

Thanks. I'm all ears:)

Joan

Bill Clinton came in fourth in Iowa. you normally don't have to "win" just beat expectations and get a bounce going forward

Biden is battling Richardson for the final spot there.

no one will get 50%, someone will be "first" in the number of delegates allocated

Howard could have played Iowa the way Clinton did in 92 but chose not to 

Obama doesn't have to win Iowa if he wins South Carolina, but he might "win" he has done everything necessary as have Edwards and Clinton

since the staff work has been equal the results of that night will be a real test of the politics of those three

There is no war--yet.

~~~~~~~~~~

kind of like saying Korea was a "police action"

Iowa has caucused to elect legal representation for the smallest governmental division, the precinct, (1734 after it was reduced by HAVA from 2100 plus ) since we became a state, party rules to add allocation of nominating convention delegates was added in the seventies and since we have always done it early in the year it became "first in the nation". The legislature acted much more recently to make it State Law that we be first, but the courts ruled that The Party sets it's own rules.

Iowans will always caucus early no matter what calendar is agreed upon by the National Party, it may or may not have bearing on the Presidential races, we do it every two years. 

A little clearer now.

I know Clinton didn't win Iowa and that it isn't necesary -- probably more so this year than before.

I think Dean actually didn't have enough money left, thanks in part to the mishandling of Trippi, to go on much further after coming in second in NH and then the loss in Wisc.

I hate caucuses, good for Indians only and always open to fraud and lack of documentation.

Thanks Phil.

bbl

Iowa would have to change it's Constitution not to caucus and that isn't going to happen, the National Rules Committee decides whether or not we use our method of allocation of Nominating Convention delegates for President and all 50 differ, they just have to be fair. 

Op-Ed Contributors
This Is Your Brain on Politics
Published: November 11, 2007

This article was written by Marco Iacoboni, Joshua Freedman and Jonas Kaplan of the University of California, Los Angeles, Semel Institute for Neuroscience; Kathleen Hall Jamieson of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania; and Tom Freedman, Bill Knapp and Kathryn Fitzgerald of FKF Applied Research.

IN anticipation of the 2008 presidential election, we used functional magnetic resonance imaging to watch the brains of a group of swing voters as they responded to the leading presidential candidates. Our results reveal some voter impressions on which this election may well turn.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/opinio...

just a drive by to share this very special tribute in memory to Porter Wagoner. This was one of the nicest tributes I've seen and it brought me to tears.

I didn't know Dolly wrote that song for him. The Grand Ol Opry Special aired just 8 days before he passed.

Current TV remembers Porter
http://current.com/items/87112991_porter...

I'm off to Dubuque to meet Edwards.

bbl

Something to celebrate here.

Bill Simpich | Big Win for Watada: A Study in Courage and Honor
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111107A.shtml
Civil rights attorney Bill Simpich, writing for Truthout, says that "Benjamin Settle, a federal court judge, issued a preliminary injunction halting any further court-martial proceedings of 1st Lt. Ehren Watada and effectively ruling against the Army on virtually every issue in the case."

Musharraff's Foe Imran Khan, starting a movement against Musharraff, despite all the people being put in jail. He escaped house arrest.

http://current.com/items/87067661_mushar...

It's been my suspicion for some time now that this gov't, and perhaps the next, wish to disarm all the citizens, which is necessary for a police state to completely take over.  The rationale will be to keep the citizens safe from crazies, but the real reason will be to render us helpless against further tyranny.

This may be the straw that breaks the BH, since the gun lobby is strong.  So now the 2nd Amend is going to be attacked and we have a RW court almost a shoe in.  All it takes is one judge retiring or dying and that's why we have to

IMPEACH Cheney and then watch putz fall. 

Phil, my second choice after Gore would be Dodd or Kucinich...so you see the pickle I'm in and why I'm upset with IA and Iowans.

Happy Sunday, folks:)

New threadskie. 

Thanks, Linda SF for the vid on Khan.

With bush/darth in office, this cannot end well.

As Pakistan brews internally, and chaos reigns, who's gonna get the nukes?  Khan said that the west needs to understand what's going on in Pakistan and that the people should be supported.

Good luck, World. 

I can't post on the newest thread with the practical ideas about saving energy. I forgot to mention that this morning on CSPAN a caller said something to the effect that the last vestiges of our democracy ended with the Howard Dean scream.

Looks like seashell did it again!
Break this flimsy blog!~

I really would like to know how she does it. I know she claims it's not intentional.

 Who is to blame? The software? ( CakePHP)

Or the administrator?

BACK TO THIS THREAD - THE OTHER ONE IS STUCK

NO COMMENTS BOX.
----------------
btw

Monday, November 12, 2007

1 US Dollar = 0.68152 Euro

1 Euro (EUR) = 1.46730 US Dollar (USD)

---------------

Time for us to weave baskets for the Europeans - LOL

There's a new thread and do not pick on Seashell she is my friend.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22919

new one that works