The DFA grassroots and netroots are first!

Everybody in the party leadership needs to stop apologizing,  needs to stop telling others to apologize...and all of them need to stand up firmly against Bush.   The worst we can do is lose, which we will do anyway if we don't even try.

Our party sends messages to the grassroots, netroots, liberals, activists who speak with emotion.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1595

And even more a certain blogger needs to get facts straight before attacking the chairman.   Especially on the Florida issue which he admitted later he knew nothing about.   Josh at the DNC even called him to tell him there were errors in his post. 

Using Florida Party talking points just before heading for the Florida convention.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1598

thank you Audrey...now two such "procedures" within a week...it's time to hit my herbs.


Time for a COOL change,
Gore
2008


And, Van, if you're lurking, the poll is obviously open to "candidate supporters" not just DFA members, and HQ welcomes any supporter voting in this poll....so, bring your friends inDEED! :) Show the Al Gore support.

There are others here that are 100% Obama, too.  Not many though.  

+++

Mz*Little -

And your point is what ?

I support Obama 100% and proud of it.

Combine the %'s of Gore, Obama and Kucinich, and 67.19% support people who don't have the blood of Iraq on their hands. That is very encouraging.  

+++

Sitka -

Thanks for stating that.

Obama has 300,000 email addresses and the power of Oprah, and was bound to see this process as an opportunity at some point, since they are all organized.

I welcome their votes and membership in DFA. A majority are progressives.

...

+++

Phil -

Always a voice of reason, thanks for sharing that.

4. Suzanne, did that response get printed?

That article in the LA Times, that others used (of course) on the Huff Post diary, was such a "pro other candidate" , "try to squash Al Gore support" story.

The newest person they could refer to that was offering to support another canidate was Rob Reiner, and he had endorsed Hillary 2 weeks before that article was written and that was before the Nobel Peace Prize.

The other couple that they mentioned in that entire article, and that was it.....where was all this supposed supporter list, was like Bender, who joined the Obama campaign as soon as it started.

So their story was false right there alone....but it didn't stop them from writing up that entire article and making the claim, right? LOL

There's a straw poll on KOS that has Dodd in second behind Edwards (but ahead of Obama). Gore or Dean not an option.

I don't believe they are available online, but if you can get your hands on the November Vanity Fair, and you are of a 'certain age' there are some Annie Leibowitz photos that belong in the Met Museum of Art. They are right in the back of the issue. They are pix of the great folk singers of the 60's. Peter, Paul, and Mary, Judy Collins, Joan Baez, Arlo Guthrie and family, James Taylor and family, and Joni Mitchell. The photos I think I will cut out and hang on the wall next to all my Rene Pape photos. Over the years I've seen Collins at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley, Baez and PP&M at that Garden in Saratoga CA (the name will come lol-Montalvo!!!). Oh! and just pure art of Buffy St. Marie and Richie Havens. These are the best Annie Leibowitz I have ever seen.

Valerie Plame was adorable on Larry King. She's so pretty and such a flirt I bet she's talked a lot of folks out if info they hadn't planned to give up. I like her.

Prayers and thoughts for the fire victims and THEIR ANIMALS.

Linda SFNM your surgery sounds gruesome-take drugs :~)-legal ones of course.

Nitie Nitie Bloggie (and Hi Thankful)

s m
Mon, 10/22/07
6:32 pm

+++

s m -

Welcome to this blog.

Thank You.

Yes, so disingenuous.  Will let you know if it gets printed - I just sent it in today.  But in case it would not be printed, I wanted to give Ms. Smarty Pants a piece of my mind. :- )

11.

There are many Obama supporters here in DFA (most don't blog in this BFA blog I suspect). DFA is a very diverse and lively group.

Well, off for the night.

That last "thank you" was from me and it was directed to Linda and Phil for their help in clarifying my question about inviting friends to participate for Gore in the pulse poll. I hope some ofthe 100 or so folks who got the "newletter" will respond. Thank you for all you folks are doing.   Van Parker

Annilow...9

You remind me of the couple of hours I spent with a few staffers, sitting on the kitchen floor of the home of the daughter of the Gov. of Ohio listening to Peter Yarrow's music and Gene McCarthy reading some of his poetry. Wish I had it on tape, but it's pretty clear in my mind without tape.

"To those who say "the left" needs to "understand", or the "activists" are just not aware of "how things work".....those are becoming meaningless reprimands now. The burden is on our party which holds a majority now. If they can't fix it, they must speak up."

 http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1599

"To those who say "the left" needs to "understand", or the "activists" are just not aware of "how things work".....

.....I reply, "You are cowards and collaborators."  

Annilow, believe it or not, the LEGAL herbs do help. I took some before dinner and was actually able to eat with minor discomfort....as long as I chewed....my very well cooked pasta, geeennnnnttttlllly. :)

______________

Van, you're so welcome.

16. Good for you floridagal. Ahem!

And your point is what ?

I support Obama 100% and proud of it.

Just making an observation.   I shouldn't be doing that?

is this thread slow enough for me to put a bunch of questions up?  My sister got an interesting post in her morning email and sent it on to me because she thought it was probably a bunch or repug smear stuff.  I suspect that it's probably half truths taken out of context or stuff totally left out. 

It's on Social Security and I suspect it's trying to get folks to agree to get rid of it.  ok if I post the questions? 

Hellooooooooooo??  anybody home????

I think we should all agree that this poll isn't scientific, won't lead to an endorsement, and is being dominated by the very same candidates (and Gore) who get the most attention on this blog. It also isn't going to lead to an endorsement for any of them. So it's no big deal any way we look at it. Enjoy it and keep cussing the DCDems who stab us in the back a different way every day.

hi Sitka.  I thought everyone was gone.

It's on Social Security and I suspect it's trying to get folks to agree to get rid of it.  ok if I post the questions?

I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of social security. But others do. If you post the questions someone is bound to show up eventually with answers or opionions for them. 

hi Sitka.  I thought everyone was gone.

Hi Mz. Little.  Nobody here but us chickens, it seems.

OK, but it's a bunch of questions.  They actually have the answers and it's the validity of the answers I'm curious about (my comments in parentheses) questions follow numbered statements:

Yes, you two chickens clucking. LOL

...was tied up, but I'm off for the night, after posting this.


______________________

This is just horrible. Things are just too dry there. I hope the winds stop so they can get this under better control and maybe some help in the form of RAIN!


Conditions ripe for 'perfect firestorm'

265,000 flee as massive wildfires char Southern California

NEW: 123 structures destroyed by wildfires in Lake Arrowhead


SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- More than a dozen uncontained wildfires raged Monday across Southern California, threatening thousands of structures and forcing people to flee homes from San Diego to Malibu to Lake Arrowhead.

This photo taken from space Monday afternoon shows smoke rising from the wildfires in Southern California.

Fire officials said more than 265,000 people have been evacuated and nearly 4,900 firefighters are battling the fast-moving blazes, which began over the weekend.

By Monday afternoon, the California Department of Forestry and Fire Prevention had reported 13 active wildfires have consumed more than 98,000 acres and destroyed or damaged at least 50 homes and businesses across six counties.

The winds driving the flames are expected to stay strong, coming out of the northeast, at least through Tuesday, according to CNN meteorologist Rob Marciano.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/22/wildfir...

City destroying hurricane, drought over the entire Southeast, wildfires out west, polar ice caps vanishing.......pretty much what the global warming people have been predicting for a long time. And it will only get worse. I saw a report on CNN about an island that has had to be evacuated because of rising sea level -- the first, but surely not the last, time it's happened.

Only one leader in the world has the stature and authority of knowledge to deal with the no longer impending crisis. 

Right on Sitka!  You are SO correct

You were right. Those questions and the  provided answers have "get rid of SS" written all over them. The trouble is, you just can't trust the veracity of right wingers. Experience shows they'll serve you lies for lunch and dish out a heaping helping of hypocrisy for desert.

I'd have to dig up the answers to all of those questions myself rather than accept their answers at face value. But I don't care enough to.

Nighty nite bloggie.  I'll check in tomorrow.

The is water.

The Future Is Drying Up By JON GERTNER

NYTimes Magazine
Published: October 21, 2007

Scientists sometimes refer to the effect a hotter world will have on this country’s fresh water as the other water problem, because global warming more commonly evokes the specter of rising oceans submerging our great coastal cities. By comparison, the steady decrease in mountain snowpack — the loss of the deep accumulation of high-altitude winter snow that melts each spring to provide the American West with most of its water — seems to be a more modest worry. But not all researchers agree with this ranking of dangers. Last May, for instance, Steven Chu, a Nobel laureate and the director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, one of the United States government’s pre-eminent research facilities, remarked that diminished supplies of fresh water might prove a far more serious problem than slowly rising seas. When I met with Chu last summer in Berkeley, the snowpack in the Sierra Nevada, which provides most of the water for Northern California, was at its lowest level in 20 years. Chu noted that even the most optimistic climate models for the second half of this century suggest that 30 to 70 percent of the snowpack will disappear. “There’s a two-thirds chance there will be a disaster,” Chu said, “and that’s in the best scenario.”

In the Southwest this past summer, the outlook was equally sobering. A catastrophic reduction in the flow of the Colorado River — which mostly consists of snowmelt from the Rocky Mountains — has always served as a kind of thought experiment for water engineers, a risk situation from the outer edge of their practical imaginations. Some 30 million people depend on that water. A greatly reduced river would wreak chaos in seven states: Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California. An almost unfathomable legal morass might well result, with farmers suing the federal government; cities suing cities; states suing states; Indian nations suing state officials; and foreign nations (by treaty, Mexico has a small claim on the river) bringing international law to bear on the United States government. In addition, a lesser Colorado River would almost certainly lead to a considerable amount of economic havoc, as the future water supplies for the West’s industries, agriculture and growing municipalities are threatened. As one prominent Western water official described the possible future to me, if some of the Southwest’s largest reservoirs empty out, the region would experience an apocalypse, “an Armageddon.”

One day last June, an environmental engineer named Bradley Udall appeared before a Senate subcommittee that was seeking to understand how severe the country’s fresh-water problems might become in an era of global warming. As far as Washington hearings go, the testimony was an obscure affair, which was perhaps fitting: Udall is the head of an obscure organization, the Western Water Assessment. The bureau is located in the Boulder, Colo., offices of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, the government agency that collects obscure data about the sky and seas. Still, Udall has a name that commands some attention, at least within the Beltway. ...full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/magazi...

The is water. s/b The issue is water.

Hetch Hetchy Valley: http://www.sierranevadaphotos.com/index....

Hetch Hetchy water systems
Bay Area Water Supply and Conservation Agency (BAWSCA)

The cities, water districts and private utilities represented by the Bay Area Water Supply and Conservation Agency (BAWSCA) rely upon the Hetch Hetchy system for water to protect the health, safety and economic well being of 1.7 million citizens, businesses and community organizations. Together, the BAWSCA agencies account for two-thirds of water consumption from the system and pay for two-thirds of its upkeep. The BAWSCA agencies are therefore key stakeholders in ensuring the system serves as a reliable source of high quality water. ...read more: http://www.bawsca.org/hetch.html

Time to Redeem a Historic Mistake - Hetch Hetchy Restoration Task Force: http://www.sierraclub.org/ca/hetchhetchy...

Good mornign, everybody

Yes, fresh water is going to be a problem.  Of course, the human species managed to increase to a very significant size using a lot less water per capita than we in the U.S. waste now.  We need to get back to a culture of recycle and reuse.  Making people pay for the water is not the answer. 

MzLittle--I expect most of the answers to the SS questions are accurate, but irrelevant.  When it was first passed, it was expected that the great majority of those qualified to receive benefits would be dead from natural causes before they did or soon after.  It wasn't expected that the average life expectancy would increase to 76.

It's unreasonable to suggest that money collected into a fund would just sit in a jar on a shelf.  It needs to be invested in worthwhile endeavors (bonds for building schools, fire stations, e.g.) and paid back in over time for when it is to be expended for the original purpose.  What the financial community wants is to get it's hands on this money to play with or run the equivalent of a ponzi scheme.  The problem they are trying to deal with is that mature capitalism has veered from the original scenario of saving the profits of enterprise for expansion and renewal into a system where other people's savings are tapped for speculative projects that may or may not turn out well.  Although accountants have gotten us all used to thinking in terms of costs and benefits, what's often left out is the increasing practice of having the costs paid by one entity and the benefits realized by someone else.  That's how the community's wealth is being redistributed to the top one percent.

The moral justification for this process is the belief that the ability to accumulate wealth is a sign of virtue.  My perception is that we're dealing with predatory capitalists who combine the behavior of the predator with that of the pack rat.  Both behaviors are "natural"  It's their combination in one organism that's potentially lethal for the species. 

It will be interesting to watch which candidates' supporters get busy and vote our poll.

Second, if DFA really wants to endorse based on the poll results, will they use IRV at the end? Otherwise, why ask us for second and third choices??

Also, there's a question of whether the endorsement should be based on the votes of the regular DFA membership vs. people who joined merely to vote the poll.

-- volney

38.  Hi, Volney

DFA wants to increase its list.  That's a valuable commodity.  

Will candidates use it well?  We'll see. 

Well, if it's list-growing we want, then I think we win the poll! LOL

-- volney

Just read the article about Gore's drifting Hollywod supporters.

IMO, the best way to get him off the fence is for the majority of those people to drift over to Hillary vs. a candidate Gore could actually bring himself to endorse.

-- volney

I read that article several days ago about Hollywood's drifting Gore supporters - Rob Reiner in particular. I agree with you volney, it might spur him into action. The article I read, though, said that Reiner really feels Gore just isn't going to do it.

I was afraid to post it a few days ago, though, to be honest. Was trying to avoid a pile on to the messenger!

600,000 evacuated in San Diego area alone, 625 homes gone and winds are picking up again.

Well, either they are actually drifting or else it is a clever ruse. ;-)

Gore is at a crossroads. If I were him, here's how I'd be looking at it:

I failed to get the nomination one time (88 I think) and I failed to win the Electoral College one time. If I run again and lose, that would be a hard blow to overcome.

I know I could pretty well whip any GOP, but could I win my own nomination and at what cost to party unity?

Maybe it would be easier on me and my family to pursue a quiet agent-for-change career like my former opponent Bill Bradley.

On the other hand, if I don't run I have said I will endorse. I will not endorse Hillary. What if the person I endorse fails to win the nomination? That will be a two-times loss in the kingmaker arena. Hmmm.

If I were Gore, I would trust myself to run more than I would trust my power of endorsement to have the intended result. And if I am going to run, this is the election to run in.

-- volney

You know what? On Halloween night we should all change our votes to Howard, then change them back to the original votes the next day. LOL

-- volney

http://panafricannews.blogspot.com/2007/10/lucky-dube-1964-2007-south-african.html

19.06%

17.98%

It is very hard to bring the numbers over in an easy to read form, but Obama clearly had a good day in our poll yesterday

add those numbers all up and you have a pretty good group of progressives and they all had to click on a link that said democracyforamerica to vote

and revealing second choices and state by state voting by candidate will be very interesting

other than being able to change your vote this is how I think we should chose our nominee (but with true IRV and paper ballots)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDxHcqt12uw

Lucky Dube - Prisoner (Live)

the amazing thing about the Gore total is that he is not on the ballot by name

Gore doesn't have a campaign website or messaged his supporters to vote here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrV6JIkHfeQ

Lucky Dube - Slave (Videoclip)

51.

I get emails from the Obama campaign and none referred to the PPP on DFA. 

However, there's a number of Obama supporters there who are current and/or former Deaniacs, like Vermonter, etc. 

There is also a Deaniacs for Obama group of which I'm part of, but the email about the pulse poll went out last Wednesday, Oct. 17th.

So much for Democrats being the good guys.....................

 Executives at the two biggest phone companies contributed more than $42,000 in political donations to Senator John D. Rockefeller IV this year while seeking his support for legal immunity for businesses participating in National Security Agency eavesdropping.

Oh and there are only 67 members.

I'm assuming that like Monica has found with her group there are 400 or so lurkers for every poster.

Charles Chamberlain may need to post again but I thought this is a membership vote, and viral marketing at its best.

Obama is a popular candidate here in Iowa, draws big crowds, has a large competent paid staff all around the state, and could easily come in first. Edwards is in the same position. 

Phil, correct, and Al Gore doesn't have HQ sending out an email for his vote, or posting a letter from him either. But, hay, he isn't a declared candidae, so, that's that.

_________________

Denise, LOL, yeah, but don't worry, someone else posted it.

__________________

bbl ...coffeeeeeeeeeee

DFA has collected a pretty large e-mail list and everyone got Obama's message to vote in the pulsepoll, as well as Edward's and Kucinich's and if the bottom tier wants to move up they had better get their candidate to leave HQs a message to send out.

it would be too cool if Al Gore did as well

Oy VEY! Sunday snow, this morning...23 DEGREES.

the winds are howling in So. Cal. and we might have a Chicago fire there yet

my thoughts and prayers are with them

harvest beckons see you tonight

Coffee's dripping....Phil, our local tv just held up a front page of the paper "Armeggedon".

BREAKING NEWS: State of Emergency declared for California

This fellow is on Wash Journal -- you can read his article at the link. He worked for White House (NSC I think) until March 2003 (Iraq war) and left b/c he disagreed with the war.


The Secret History of the Impending War with Iran That the White House Doesn't Want You to Know
Two former high-ranking policy experts from the Bush Administration say the U.S. has been gearing up for a war with Iran for years, despite claiming otherwise. It'll be Iraq all over again.
By John H. Richardson
10/18/2007, 1:34 PM

In the years after 9/11, Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann worked at the highest levels of the Bush administration as Middle East policy experts for the National Security Council. Mann conducted secret negotiations with Iran. Leverett traveled with Colin Powell and advised Condoleezza Rice. They each played crucial roles in formulating policy for the region leading up to the war in Iraq. But when they left the White House, they left with a growing sense of alarm -- not only was the Bush administration headed straight for war with Iran, it had been set on this course for years. That was what people didn't realize. It was just like Iraq, when the White House was so eager for war it couldn't wait for the UN inspectors to leave. The steps have been many and steady and all in the same direction. And now things are getting much worse. We are getting closer and closer to the tripline, they say.

http://www.esquire.com/features/iranbrie...

OMG 665 homes destroyed already.

I flipped to Faux News for a moment this morning looking for fire news. They (that breakfast gang) were opining about a picture of the Democratic presidential candidates apparently saluting the flag or listening to the N'al Anthem. In the large picture, everyone had their hands over their hearts except for Obama who had hands clasped in front of him -- poor guy -- no flag pin, no salute -- he must be anti-American ROFLOL. The things that channel comes up with!

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 10/23/07
9:01 am
___________________________________________________________________________

Americans should look at this as a miniscule outcome IF ever there was even a "limited" nuclear exchange between any nations............coupled with these firestorms would be disease, radioactive fallout and contamination of the surronding regions for hundreds of square miles............

All the nationalistic pride, flag waving and bald eagles flying to the Star Spangled banner could not prevent this disaster..............how come the politicians arent talking about nuclear disarmament?

Annilow
Tue, 10/23/07
9:07 am
___________________________________________________________________________

I dont care for Obama..but I respect his viewpoint on this one..............

A 10 min ride during evacuations of some residents in the Malibu area, turned to a 2 hour ride.

Another inconvenient thruth about what will happen as a result of environmental disasters.

Like Al Gore says, we couldn't even evacuate 300,000 people from New Orleans, how are we going to evacuate 300,000,000.

Flooding in New Orleans, after a storm dumped 8 inches of rain.

Is a Presidential Coup Under Way?

By Jim Hightower, Hightower Lowdown
Posted on October 23, 2007,
Printed on October 23, 2007

Where is Congress? It's way past time for members to stand up. Historic matters are at stake. The Constitution is being trampled, the very form of our government is being perverted, and nothing less than American democracy itself is endangered -- a presidential coup is taking place. I think of Barbara Jordan, the late congresswoman from Houston. On July 25, 1974, this powerful thinker and member of the House Judiciary Committee took her turn to speak during the Nixon impeachment inquiry.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total," she declared in her thundering voice. "And I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction, of the Constitution."Where are the likes of Barbara Jordan in today's Congress? While the BushCheney regime continues to establish a supreme, arrogant, autocratic presidency in flagrant violation of the Constitution, members of Congress largely sit there as idle spectators -- or worse, as abettors of Bush's usurpation of their own congressional authority.
Why it matters
Separation of powers. Rule of law. Checks and balances.
~~~~~~~~~~~
This time is different
Now, however, come two arrogant autocrats like we've never seen in the White House. George W and his snarling enabler, Dick Cheney, are making a power grab so unprecedented, so audacious, so broad and deep, so secretive, so stupefying, and so un-American that it has not yet been comprehended by the media, Congress, or the public. The dictionary defines "coup" not just as an armed takeover in some Third World country, but as "a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one affecting a change of government illegally or by force."
~~~~~~~~~~~~`

As Al Gore pointed out in a powerful speech he gave last year (read it here), the BushCheney push for imperial power is much more dangerous and far-reaching than other presidential excesses for a couple of big reasons. First, the Bushites make no pretension that they want these powers only temporarily, instead contending that a super-powerful presidency is necessary to cope with a terrorist threat that they say will last "for the rest of our lives." Second, they are not merely pushing executive supremacy as a response to an outside threat, but as an ideological, right-wing theory of what they allege the Constitution actually meant to say.
Called the "unitary executive theory," this perverse, antidemocratic construct begs us to believe that the president has inherent executive powers that cannot be reviewed, questioned, or altered by the other branches. Bush himself has asserted that his executive power "must be unilateral and unchecked." Must? Extremist theorists aside, this effectively establishes an executive with arbitrary power over us. It creates the anti-America.
The list of Bushite excesses is long...and growing:
~~~~~~~~~`
Democratic capitulation
What we have is a lawless presidency. But our problem is not Bush. He is who he is -- a bonehead. He won't change, and why should he? He's getting away with his power grab! So he has no reason to step back, and every reason to keep pushing and to keep trying to institutionalize his coup.
Rather, our problem is those weaselly, wimpy, feckless members of Congress who have failed to confront the runaway executive, who have sat silent or (astonishingly) cheered and assisted as their own constitutional powers have been taken and their once-proud, coequal branch has been made subservient to the executive.
~~~~~~~~~~``
Bang pots and pans
Sam Adams, the organizer of the Boston Tea Party, knew that it is the citizenry itself that ultimately has to do the heavy lifting of democracy building. "If ever a time should come when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats of government," he declared, "our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
That's us. And now is that time.
What can we do?
more
http://www.alternet.org/story/65450/

Barbara Ehrenreich
Happy Fascism Awareness Week!

I've never been able to explain Halloween to the kids, with its odd thematic confluence of pumpkins, candy, and death. But Halloween is a piece of pumpkin cake compared to Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, which commences today. In this special week, organized by conservative pundit David Horowitz, we have a veritable witches' brew of Cheney-style anti-jihadism mixed in with old-fashioned rightwing anti-feminism and a sour dash of anti-Semitism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-eh...

Uh, yes.  This is the snear we've come to know as Dick.

On the Eve of Destruction

Email Print Share

Posted on Oct 22, 2007

AP photo / Charles Dharapak







By Scott Ritter



Don’t worry, the White House is telling us. The world’s most powerful leader was simply making a rhetorical point. At a White House press conference last week, just in case you haven’t heard, President Bush informed the American people that he had told world leaders “if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing [Iran] from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.” World War III. That is certainly some rhetorical point, especially coming from the man singularly most capable of making such an event reality.



Pundits have raised their eyebrows and comics are busy writing jokes, but the president’s reference to Armageddon, no matter how cavalierly uttered and subsequently brushed away, suggests an alarming context.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20071022_on_the_eve_of_destruction/ 

68.  Yeah, Linda, this is serious stuff in S.Cal.

I'm miles away from any flames, but experienced the smell of smoke and tearing-up eyes all day yesterday.  A big thanks to everyone fighting these horiffic fires!

When we set up our tables Saturday for the big ANSWER/PDA march and rally in L.A., I'm going to pass out post-its with the websites for draftgore and the DFA Pulse Poll.  Too many people don't know about either.   

70.

Linda, thanks for the Hightower post. I love the guy, and he's right on, as usual.

Instead of making excuses for them and sending them money, we should be on the Democrats' cases, 24-7.

Cowardly, feckless wimps!

That's an interesting question someone asked above.  We were asked to rank our top three.  Is that eventually going to be used to find a "winner", rather than just the first place votes?

you're welcome.

Thoughts to our friends in California.  I've lived through major fires (when I lived in Florida).  I was never in direct danger, but the constant smell of burning, brown haze and keeping constantly ready to evacuate at a moment's notice certainly puts one on edge.

I remember a guy who got trapped at a radio station when the fire blocked his only road out, so he just kept broadcasting. He ended up okay, but that certainly had to be scary. 

DODD SHOWS THE WAY!

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_dave_lin_071022_sen__chris_dodd_s_ma.htm

President Bush is no chump. He has figured out how to emasculate the Democrats (those that aren't already eunuchs). Instead of making a decent estimate of the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and asking for it up front for the 2008 fiscal year, he is asking for it piecemeal, giving Democrats opportunity after opportunity to turn him down and end it all, knowing all the while that they'll cave and give him his war money.

Each time he does this, and each time House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's minions deliver, the Democrats sink in public esteem, to the point that they're now approaching single-digit approval ratings.

Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), a veteran legislator and son of a senator, and a contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, has shown, however, how to fight back.

What Pelosi and Reid are alluding to actually is the 60 votes needed to override a veto. They are claiming that efforts to end the war cannot succeed because any bill calling for withdrawal would be filibustered by Republicans and that the Democrats, with a 51 majority causus in the Senate, could not stop a filibuster. Dodd, however, is showing that they can prevent bad legislation by being the ones doing the filibustering, and that they then only need 41 votes--something they clearly could muster if the party's leadership were behind it.

So Dodd is testing out this theory on the stinking betrayal of a bill the Democrats have come up with for the NSA. If he succeeds in blocking that bill, he will finallly have to put his money where his mouth is, and anti-war bonifides by placing a similar hold on Bush's new request for $46 billion more for the Iraq War.

That in turn would put the Democrats to the test. If, after running a campaign last fall promising they would end Bush's war, and after failing miserably to do so for the past 10 months in power in Congress, they did not support a filibuster against further funding, they would stand exposed as the worst kind of charlatans and fraudsters.

Good morning from the Old Dominion...

My old greeting to remind my fellow Virginians that we reorganize all our local parties this December.  Here's a chance to move your Democratic Committee in a more progresside direction.  Start finding people for your committee now! 

Kucinich has almost caught Edwards in the PPP.

Looks as if Dennis Kucinich could overtake Edwards today.

COWARDS

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/linkframe.php?linkid=44248

Is Congress afraid of Gen. David Petraeus? If not, why did its members run around like panicked turkeys in a rain storm to defend a four-star general from a few liberal Democrats at MoveOn.org? Before the "Betray Us" flap established MoveOn's bona fides, the outfit was little more than a fundraising adjunct to the Democratic Party. What else but fear could induce a Democratic Congress, with a mandate to end the war, to vote three to one to shield an eminently political general and stalwart administration supporter from the rough and tumble of American political discourse?

Obama drops 20%. Dodd jumps from 0 in August to 7 in september to 21 in October. Taking a stand and taking action, unlike Clinton and Obama, makes a difference. It's what you call leadership.
 

New diary on KOS

Huron John
Tue, 10/23/07
9:50 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I dont know which draws more snickers and jers these days......saying "I am a Democrat" or "I am a republican"...............

I get no trouble from anyone anymore....i say "I am a proud Independent"...........

John wrote "Instead of making excuses for them and sending them money, we should be on the Democrats' cases, 24-7."

What are you trying to say, that you haven’t been?

Mike wrote "I get no trouble from anyone anymore....i say ‘I am a proud Independent’.

Does this mean you vote the person, not the party, or just that you feel free to vote for any Democrat, Republican or third party candidate as the mood strikes you?

Thank you Monica Smith, for the answer to my SS questions.  Much appreciated and spot on!

Hey Barb got your email back!

Got your testosterone shield handy? LOL

The water issue:

IMO since running out of water is upon us, and since people are stupid enuf to keep wasting water, we need a law prohibiting people from watering their lawns.  Denver had such a law...people could water only at certain times...  Since Americans are brainless enuf to continue their suicidal slide into extinction, we need laws to curb population growth, water usage, toxic cars, buses and SUVs and trucks.   If people will not wake up and smell the toxicity, I want laws to at least protect the innocent among us...elderly, babies.

Furthermore, it should be a law that every pet owner neuter their pets, or face stiff penalities, and people who allow their dogs to bark before 10AM and after 10PM should be fined.  Boulder has good laws.  Leaving dogs chained up all day should result in huge fines no matter where you live.  Many people don't even walk them and the poor things just bark and bark.  There are bark collars for god's sake. These people should not have dogs, just like some people shouldn't have children.  

This is not fascism; we already have fascism.  This is simply common sense for the good care of the planet and for one's neighbors .

And for our poor cooped up mistreated animals sitting in cages becuz some idiot wouldn't neuter the parents.

In my opinion, the U.S. has proven that it is largely unconscious about the care of the planet and its animals.  The dictator Bush could care less about either; so what we need is a truly intelligent and compassionate president and congress.

Throw the bums out - with few exceptions.

Gore/Dodd/Kucinich

I would like to see all of the  candidates share the presidency with the exception of Hellary, Obama and Edwards.  The rest could restore this country combining their many different talents.   

Prayers for S. Calif.  Anybody heard from Sandy Eigo? 

And we need classes in "good manners" starting in kindergarten.   

Yes I did Denise.  And I included it in my reply to my sis along with Monica's great answer at 37 above. 

Thank you so much.  I knew I'd seen them before and not paid any attention, but with my sis, i have to be more direct as she is really politically naive and always asks me stuff like that.

Not on all of it though, some she passes on because she views it as being really "patriotic" not realizing that it too, is propaganda.

thanks again, my friend. 

Tom Bearse
Tue, 10/23/07
10:14 am

___________________________________________________________________________

Tom,

I am not a robot..but a thinking, working individual.......should I decide to exercise my right to vote for whoemever I want to, I will make that choice not by being threatened or told whom to vote for, but by my own rationalizing as to whom the best candidate is without regard to party, religion, race or gender.........my vote will be based upon said candidates views on the issues at hand.......IF its  Republican then fine, I doubt very much it will be the Democratic nominee......IF an Independent shines then that vote will go that way or i will write it in...........

Of course I may just sit home and watch the results and have  afew giggles that night............depends upon my "mood".............

House voting now to table Boehner's privileged resolution to censure Pete Stark. This ought to be a very "telling" vote.

92.

...

I am not a robot

...

+++

Mike -

That would make a great opening line for a novel -- right up there with "Call me Ishmael" IMO.

Well, in all seriousness, thanks for your comment in # 67.

Mike wrote "my vote will be based upon said candidates views on the issues at hand.......IF its Republican then fine, I doubt very much it will be the Democratic nominee......IF an Independent shines then that vote will go that way or i will write it in."

What is it that’s influencing your vote? You doubt that a Democratic nominee will be voteworthy, but a Republican candidate’s views may be fine or an Independent may shine. Is there some Republican or Independent policy platform that hews closer to your personal views than the Democratic platform on those issues?

Tom Bearse, you seem to be always questioning people in a mildly antagonistic way.  Are you looking for arguments?  Or are you really really looking for clarification?

Heres to Marie Osmond..........that guy should have caught her........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfEhJwD60cs

Barbara wrote "Tom Bearse, you seem to be always questioning people in a mildly antagonistic way.  Are you looking for arguments?  Or are you really really looking for clarification?"

I am very sincere about exploring other people's views.  In the case of Dean followers, I find the information a real benefit to informing my own.  I'm not sure what your reference to an antagonistic manner relates to.  Do you have an example in mind?

My Seattle buddy you're a mind reader, even 3000 miles away today.

Stark res. tabled. 4 Dems voting against. Pete Stark gives emotional apology to pres. and all others. to some applause. Again, flamboozled. Don't know the 4 Dems. I felt like I wanted to give Stark a reassuring hug. I'm sure the Dems made it difficult for him too.

90.
seashell :-)
Tue, 10/23/07
10:27 am

Drafting Al Gore in Escondido, California by Dean Nut in Sandy Eigo: http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22648...


98.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 10/23/07
10:56 am

I waited nine and half years to marry to my high school sweetheart. The church was very full that day but nobody fainted during our ceremony. We celebrated our twenty-fourth wedding anniversary this year.

Susan wrote "I waited nine and half years to marry to my high school sweetheart. The church was very full that day but nobody fainted during our ceremony. We celebrated our twenty-fourth wedding anniversary this year."

How wonderful.  Congratulations.  My wife and I celebrated our 24th anniversary this month.

Huron John
and
all others interested in that Consitutional and Power grab speech Jim Hightower was referring to that Al Gore gave last year, Jan 16, 2006 to be precise, I have the video link for his entire speech.

Al Gore on "Restoring the Rule of Law"
http://www.acslaw.org/node/2096

He is awesome.

AND

someone filmed a question answer period at his October 2 presentation in Denver, you can see his response here. Maybe they were hoping to catch another question/answer..... :)

http://current.com/items/85491991_al_gor...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/22/w...

Bush wants another $42 billion for wars

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Bush administratin on Monday asked Congress for nearly $46 billion in additional war spending for 2008, calling on U.S. lawmakers to approve the money before adjourning for the holidays.
..........
Minutes after Bush spoke, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, warned the president not to expect Congress to "rubber-stamp" the latest request.
------------

Our lovely profi continue "fighting"....
One, "Pete Stark gives emotional apology to pres. and all others", another one "warned the president not to expect Congress to 'rubber-stamp'..." - which apparently means - "you'll get it Mr. President without even expectations"..., lol.

Al's numbers are climbing on DFA's PPP.  That's good news.

DFA's Presidential Pulse Poll has received attention in Ben Smith's Blog at Politico.com today.  He reproduces the bar graph and writes:

"Al Gore has pretty much tamped down the presidential speculation at this point, but his devout supporters just won't stop.

"He's winning the Democracy for America online 'pulse poll' with almost 20,000 votes -- despite the fact that he doesn't appear on their ballot."

Edwards has reached 13000 votes on DFA's PPP. That's good news.

What the h@ll is this? Presidential candidates get to send out letters to their and DFA members pleaing for votes, but DFA sends out an attack on Al Gore's leading vote?

Our challenge to Al Gore: Jump In or Drop Out!
Something surprising is happening at Democracy for America; former Vice President Al Gore is leading the race for the DFA Presidential endorsement -- as a write-in candidate.
Voting is still open until November 5 at midnight, and there is plenty of time for any candidate to win. All your candidate needs is your vote right now:
http://www.DemocracyforAmerica.com/Pulse...

Despite the fact that Al Gore has not announced that he will run and wasn't even included in the endorsement poll, DFA members have seized the power and written him in. With over 65,000 votes cast so far, the time has come for Vice President Gore to make a decision.

The clock is ticking. We are deep into the 11th hour. There are fewer than 90 days until the first votes are cast. And filing deadlines to be on the ballot start closing in just days.
You deserve to know. Is Al Gore in or out?

Together, we are the boots on the ground that knock on doors, make phone calls, and recruit new supporters whether advocating for the next president or electing Governor Howard Dean to Chair the Democratic National Committee. DFA members are working to take our country back and the DFA endorsement is worth more than just words to the candidate that wins.
Vote for your candidate now:
http://www.DemocracyforAmerica.com/Pulse...

Of course, this is not an ordinary endorsement poll. All voters are asked for their top three choices. And in the end, only an announced candidate can win the DFA endorsement. That means this will be the first poll in the nation that can accurately report both the remarkable support Al Gore has in the progressive grassroots AND which announced candidates earn that support if he never jumps in.

When we announce the results on November 6th, one year from Election Day, everyone will be watching.
Don't keep us waiting, Mr. Gore. It is time for an answer.
Arshad Hasan
Executive Director

70000 votes so far in DFA's PPP

No, Arashad, it is not time for an answer, not on your time frame.

The things that I'll miss when not online from tomorrow through Nov 24:

the World Series between the Red Sox and Rockies

the MLS playoffs involving the Revs

DFA's PPP results announced on 11/6

I didn't vote for Gore first in DFA's poll, but I think this email (I'm stil getting multiples guys) is inappropriate.  If we want to vote for Al Gore, we'll vote for Al Gore, and if he wins the poll, he wins.  Who is DFA to declare who is in or out of the race?

For those who want Al Gore to heed a draft, what could be more powerful than winning an endorsement from a group like DFA? 

It looks like the vote will be split sufficinetly that nobody will be getting DFA's endorsement at this time, which is okay with me. 

Sounds like Indy writing under a pseudonym. I've been debunking the, "Gore must announce now," canard since last spring. Well, it's so close when he either will or won't run that I'm not going to bother any more. Gore knows what he's doing and it's worked perfectly so far.

Just received from DFA. I AGREE! Been saying this for awhile. It is time for AL Gore to decide: are you in or are you out. You owe the nation and the world a firm answer. No more coyness!

Dear Steve,

Our challenge to Al Gore: Jump In or Drop Out!

Something surprising is happening at Democracy for America; former Vice President Al Gore is leading the race for the DFA Presidential endorsement -- as a write-in candidate.

Voting is still open until November 5 at midnight, and there is plenty of time for any candidate to win. All your candidate needs is your vote right now:

http://www.DemocracyforAmerica.com/PulsePoll

Despite the fact that Al Gore has not announced that he will run and wasn't even included in the endorsement poll, DFA members have seized the power and written him in. With over 65,000 votes cast so far, the time has come for Vice President Gore to make a decision.

The clock is ticking. We are deep into the 11th hour. There are fewer than 90 days until the first votes are cast. And filing deadlines to be on the ballot start closing in just days.

You deserve to know. Is Al Gore in or out?

Together, we are the boots on the ground that knock on doors, make phone calls, and recruit new supporters whether advocating for the next president or electing Governor Howard Dean to Chair the Democratic National Committee.  DFA members are working to take our country back and the DFA endorsement is worth more than just words to the candidate that wins.

Vote for your candidate now:

Truly sad that DFA would partake in such an attack and threat as Arshad just sent out.

No Arshad, that is YOUR challenge.

I'm with Sitka & Linda, Indy!

Let Al BE Al! That's why we love him.

Sitka
Tue, 10/23/07
12:40 pm

Ha, good try! I posted without reading the above first, but I don't have this much influence. I wholeheartedly agree with DFA on it. Like minds. It's time.

To kinda comment on Sitka's 113 above, I've thought for a while that if Al Gore decides to run, he should declare he's skipping everything before February 5th.  He'll never put together the organization in Iowa or NH needed, so any votes he gets there (or Nevada or SC) will be a bonus.  Meanwhile his name recognition and "new guy" status can carry him to victory in the Super-Duper Tuesday states.

My 2 cents. 

Wooo, Indy/Edwards/Steve, thanks for sharing. We didn't know where you stand.

JudyforDean
Tue, 10/23/07
12:43 pm

Judy, You are of course welcome to your opinion and I respect that. Thanks for not attacking me for mine (or DFA). We will know pretty soon.

Al Gore continuing to be indecisive does not work in his favor, IN MY OPINION.

If you don't have to be a candidate to receive an endorsement and we're expressing our views on the former Dean for America website, why isn't Dean being promoted as a presidential possiblity?

I wholeheartedly agree with DFA on it.

Obviously. Fortunately, neither you nor Hasan are Gore's trusted advisors. You would have had him wallowing in the mud with the others months ago. 

Interesting that Chris Dodd is running second in the Kos poll, based on his putting a hold on Bush's legislation, but still runs last at DFA.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 10/23/07
12:46 pm

Good question. I've wondered why Dean isn't part of the race. The only answer I have is HE CLEARLY ruled out running this time. Time for Al Gore to get in or get on.

why isn't Dean being promoted as a presidential possiblity?

Because he explicitly said he was not a candidate this time around, to my disappointment.

Al Gore continuing to be indecisive does not work in his favor, IN MY OPINION.

We know already. 

Sitka
Tue, 10/23/07
12:46 pm

If "wallowing in the mud" means jumping in the race, presenting your vision and plans to voters and asking them to support you and what you believe in, then yes, I stand guilty as charged!

I wanted Al to decide by Labor Day. Since he didn't, I'm supporting Edwards and have donated to his campaign.

rich wrote "Because [Dean] explicitly said he was not a candidate this time around, to my disappointment."

Who cares what he says?  Did you see somewhere that Al Gore is a candidate this time around?

Sitka
Tue, 10/23/07
12:50 pm

Anything substantive to ad besides the usual attacks?

Gore has not yet emulated General Sherman, or Peabody and Sherman, or Sherman Potter...

rich wrote "Interesting that Chris Dodd is running second in the Kos poll, based on his putting a hold on Bush's legislation, but still runs last at DFA."

I think if the poll sponsor here also said he supported Dodd, Dodd's numbers would escalate accordingly.

ARSHAD, We, no I, ask you send out an email of apology. You do not speak for the obvious majority voters or members.

That email was an attack and a threat. That type of action does not reflect the members of Democracy for America, I'm sure. And if it does, I'm sure many Progressives and Liberals that have been still hanging around would not wish to be associated with such words and action.

If "wallowing in the mud" means jumping in the race, presenting your vision and plans to voters and asking them to support you and what you believe in, then yes, I stand guilty as charged!

Gore has done an excellent job of letting people know where he stands. Better in fact than most of the declared candidates who waffle in the realm of nuance.

By wallowing in the mud I mean exposing himself to the inevitable attacks and smears of the other candidates and their minions like you. Just the looming possibility of him running has caused you to go into overdrive against him. 

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 10/23/07
12:42 pm

If this can contribute to Al Gore deciding to jump in, that would be a good outcome, wouldn't it?

You can bet that Gore and Neel are watching this closely.

Anything substantive to ad besides the usual attacks?

That's what we want to know from you, Indy. 

Sitka
Tue, 10/23/07
12:55 pm

Hey, I've wanted Gore to run for some time now as you point out. I've said nothing bad about him except for this indecision which I don't believe looks good to anyone but his most ardent supporters.

Time to decide.

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 10/23/07
12:55 pm

I'm glad you changed that to an "I" not speaking for others.

I thank DFA for using this process perhaps to nudge Al Gore to a decision. And it does not threaten him or attack him in any way. It may even work in your (and our) favor.

I don't see it as an attack so much as more of the same old foolishness. Gore's fortunes and stock have only gotten better by not being a candidate. He still has time to stay out of the dog show and should do so for as long as possible.

rich wrote "Gore has not yet emulated General Sherman."

Yes but we know why:

"'I'm not planning to be a candidate again, ever. I have no intention of being a candidate,' Gore says again and again. But he also notes, 'I haven't made a Shermanesque statement because it just seems odd to do so.'"

Sitka wrote: He still has time to stay out of the dog show and should do so for as long as possible.

The $64,000 question. How long would that be? Ballot deadlines are approaching. Any progress on that front?

I've said nothing bad about him except for this indecision

Exactly. "Indecision" is a foolish and deragatory term since you have no idea whether Gore has decided what to do or not.

Indy wrote "How long would that be? Ballot deadlines are approaching. Any progress on that front?"

Rich thinks he should get in on time for Super Tuesday.

Yup, I believe he should look and act decisively now. Noone wants an indecisive President. And as Tom points out, he has repeatedly given indications he is NOT going to run. That could change, though, until he says he is NOT a candidate for 2008.

It is a bit like leading someone on, don't you think?

"Our challenge to Al Gore: Jump In or Drop Out!"

"You deserve to know. Is Al Gore in or out?"

"Of course, this is not an ordinary endorsement poll. All voters are asked for their top three choices. And in the end, only an announced candidate can win the DFA endorsement."

"Don't keep us waiting, Mr. Gore. It is time for an answer."

Arshad Hasan
Executive Director



I see it that way.

while 'sheltering in place,' i heard bush and his FEMA lackeys promising aid to california. 

well, they're slower than road-kill armadillos!  san diego's mayor has been pleading over the media for cots, blankets, pillows, diapers, and so on to be brought to a gigantic parking lot where evacuees have gathered.  california's exhausted and heroic firefighters--some working for over 2 days with little sleep--are stretched thinly over the more than dozen southern calif fires.  supplies and assets should have been released within 24 hours!

the air quality is horrendous! 

where are the masks [they're gone from store shelves] and the medical devices for those in deeper trouble?  some residents have actually flown their families out of the area over concerns about aggravating medical problems.  i can tell you that i sometimes need an N95 mask even in my own home with beach towels stuffed at the bottom of doors, AC and all venting fans off [the temp is in the 90s], blinds drawn [to reflect the sun and keep a layer of undisturbed air between glass and blinds], and my HEPAs going full blast non-stop.  the lymph glands behind my ears tingle from time to time.

the broadcast media are so riveted by the spectacular visuals that none that i know has been in emergency rooms and clinics.  how is our health care system holding up?  what are the excess numbers for various conditions from this catastrophic event?

The $64,000 question. How long would that be? Ballot deadlines are approaching. Any progress on that front?

I've posted the ballot deadlines and imagine Gore knows all the mundane detailsabout them.

Indy, thank goodness you have the best interest of Al Gore at heart. If President Gore needs to make decisions, I think you can rule out your "indeciveness". LOl

Do I need to drive into Burlington and have a face to face with Arshad?

But actually, and maybe it's my years of professional training in learning not to take stuff too personally, but I get what he's trying to say. And I agree. I'm chomping at the bit here to support Al. I wear my Draft Al Gore button wherever I can and so want him to run. But words on paper can be taken many ways (like email), and I do think that Arshad could have worded his message much more effectively.

Gore was pretty clear at the Boxer gig in SF that it was not his priority to run. That part didnt' make it on tape. But he said it.

Again, I didn't share that cuz it gets a bit too hostile for my tastes sometimes around here. I miss the good ol' days of this blog when we could disagree without being too disagreeable.

Sitka wrote "I've posted the ballot deadlines and imagine Gore knows all the mundane details about them."

Maybe not, though.  You better post them again.

I think it's a brilliant move on DFA's part, Linda and Sitka. Try to see it as a positive.

Al Gore is not a declared candidate so he can't win the pulse poll and get an endorsement. This, along with a challenge, could be a tipping point to getting him to jump in decisively and use the notoriety from winning the Nobel (which is dissipating).

He could actually then win the poll outright as people switched their votes and he would get the DFA endorsement.

It is a bit like leading someone on, don't you think?

Nope. Beginning campaigns early is what those who need time to gain money and recognition do. Gore doesn't need recognition and can raise money instantaneously. Hillary was foolish to let Obama goad her into the race last spring. 

But as I've pointed out to you many times, the time for Gore to announce one way or the other is approaching. The only reason for you to continue carping on it is to discredit him in your puny way. 

Good post pinsocal -- the only place keeping up in a way are the comments on KOS (rawdata) at this moment in time
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/23...


I emailed my 3rd grade beau (really) and his wife yesterday who live in Sandy Ego and have not heard back yet.

Is this going to be another interminable thread?

See y'all after class.

Ms Little @ 27 ~~

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/ssc...

http://www.ssa.gov/history/InternetMyths...

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/s/s...

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/0...

And hey, it's Tuesday after lunch in some areas - why are we still on a Monday night news thread? :)

OK I'm getting in the car right now, darn it!

Maybe not, though.  You better post them again.

Ballot deadlines 

Got all of that, BTW, and much more by entering in the goggle search box "He promised: 1.) That participation in the Program would be completely voluntary,"

Google is our friend, lol!

Rich thinks he should get in on time for Super Tuesday.

Rich thinks IF he gets in, that a good strategy would be to target Super Tuesday rather than try to play in the earlier states.  I'm speaking in my role as amateur political analyst.

Al Gore would be a helluva candidate, but right now as much as I'm supporting anyone, I'm supporting Edwards.  At least he's the one I've given the most money to. 

Sitka
Tue, 10/23/07
1:12 pm

No need to tick off people when you will need their support at some point. Tick tock, when will that time be?

145

I hear you. I really thought that Bush would have bent over backwards to help the mostly GOP base of his in the San Diego area.

So it's just incompetence wherever disaster strikes, which is usally where he happens to be, actually.

U.S. Prosecution of Muslim Group Ends in Mistrial

DALLAS, Oct. 22 — A federal judge declared a mistrial on Monday in what was widely seen as the government’s flagship terrorism-financing case after prosecutors failed to persuade a jury to convict five leaders of a Muslim charity on any charges, or even to reach a verdict on many of the 197 counts....

...Mr. Elashi’s daughter Noor, who was in the courtroom every day during the trial, said she considered her father a hero. “He was singled out for feeding and clothing and educating the children of Palestine,” she said. “Giving charity to the Palestinian people has become a crime in this country.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/23/us/23c...

I also think that Rich has a point, if Al does come in.

There are aspects of all of the declared candidates that a lot of us like and there are a lot that a lot of us dislike. For myself, I've watched this group over the past several months and the only one that my mind has really changed about in a major positive fashion is Dodd. First, I didn't believe that he had a chance; now, I hope that he does. He's finding his stride now, and I am not the only one who is appreciating that very much.

There are aspects of Edwards that I like (principally his wife; I wish that she were the candidate and I'd back her in a minute). Another aspect is that he is not doing a Senate job halfway while running for President, as so many others are. He is also a fast learner and seeks to learn more. He has recanted his vote to authorize war in Iraq. But the initial vote is still a sore point. It demonstrated his wetness behind the ears in foreign policy issues.

I wish that Obama had simply paid attention to doing a good job in the Senate and had left running for President for awhile yet. He has the time, and IMHO, needs more seasoning at the national level. He also needs more consistency between his talk and his actions. The talk is inspiring; the actions disappointing.

Hillary has a lot of potential. But she is another one that I wish had simply concentrated on being a good Senator, especially now when we desperately need them. She has just missed the ball on too many things in the crunches and is too close to the RW members of AIPAC. I would like to believe in her, but am afraid that she is still too teleguided by and beholden to the corporatists and have seen nothing recently to make me change that opinion. She has also not recanted her vote to authorize war and voted for Kyl-Lieberman, which REALLY pissed me off.

I love Gravel, and am glad that he and Kucinich are out there saying all the things that ALL the candidates should be saying. I don't doubt their passion, but I do doubt that either has the kinds of people smarts to get good people to work together at all levels of government, which is one of the most important jobs that a President can do and that putz has certainly failed at except in making us all mistrust every aspect of a government that should be there to enable us all to achieve our potential and to be there in our time of desperate need, viz. NOLA.

Biden is a perennial candidate who missed his time, IMHO.

Who did I miss?

Like Dean, Gore has convinced me he isn’t running for the nomination, but it would be stunning if he would, and I agree he could saunter in anytime before the convention if no other candidate can capture the necessary first ballot delegates. I can’t stand watching those canned pep rallies anymore. The excitement of an unanticipated Gore candidacy would be a welcome shot in the arm.

No need to tick off people when you will need their support at some point.

I don't work for Gore or anyone, so I don't need anyone's support.

Tick tock, when will that time be?

I would say by November 1,  which is when filing deadlines begin (Michigan's is today, but it's being boycotted by most). 

Al Gore: Restoring the Rule of Law


Jim Hightower discusses the powerful speech Al Gore gave last year, January 16, 2006, about the Constitutional crisis and power grab of this administration in his recent article, "Is a Presidential Coup Under Way?"

http://www.alternet.org/story/65450/?pag... e=1





As Al Gore pointed out in a powerful speech he gave last year (read it here), the BushCheney push for imperial power is much more dangerous and far-reaching than other presidential excesses for a couple of big reasons. First, the Bushites make no pretension that they want these powers only temporarily, instead contending that a super-powerful presidency is necessary to cope with a terrorist threat that they say will last "for the rest of our lives." Second, they are not merely pushing executive supremacy as a response to an outside threat, but as an ideological, right-wing theory of what they allege the Constitution actually meant to say.

Called the "unitary executive theory," this perverse, antidemocratic construct begs us to believe that the president has inherent executive powers that cannot be reviewed, questioned, or altered by the other branches. Bush himself has asserted that his executive power "must be unilateral and unchecked." Must? Extremist theorists aside, this effectively establishes an executive with arbitrary power over us. It creates the anti-America.


I have a link of Al Gore's entire speech on video.

http://www.acslaw.org/node/2096

And here we sit, aproaching almost 2 years since this speech was given.


The Constitution is being trampled and nothing less than American democracy itself is endangered -- a presidential coup is taking place. Where is Congress?

History indeed seems to keep repeating itself. Now over 5 years, September 2002, since Mr. Gore gave that speech-not only opposing, but giving reasons, disasterous scenarios and end results of attacking Iraq.

Our Congress is complicit in these actions. When will they start performing their responsibilities?

In a rare recording of a private question/answer of Mr. Gore at a presentation in Denver on October 2,
http://current.com/items/85491991_al_gor... e_s_speech_oct_2_2007

Just in case you missed the news, Mr. Gore release 3 short videos of his policy and opinion on 3 very important issues we face. You can view them here.

http://current.com/people/algore

We need leadership with not just experience, record and vision, but the willingness to speak truth and lead on what is right, even when they are standing alone.

http://americaforgore.org/



Al Gore: "I am asking YOU, to participate with me in becoming part of the new movement to rekindle the true spirit of America."

102.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 10/23/07
11:39 am


The modern 24th wedding anniversary gifts is Musical Instruments. We attended a lot of music concerts this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsMpAph1v...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8YFZJK3a...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRa_Mnp1J...

I would say by November 1,  which is when filing deadlines begin (Michigan's is today, but it's being boycotted by most). 

Thanks for the straight answer.

123. 

rich^kolker
Tue, 10/23/07
12:48 pm

Rich, I don't see it that strange (frustrating, yes).  DFA members seem to want to belong this time around and are flocking to front runners and not necessarily substance.  The Gore supporters are trying desperately to get their man in and I would probably flip in a heartbeat from Dodd to Gore were he to announce.

Dodd has a track record (not always sterling I'll admit) and is out front on many of the matters that should be forefront in DFA members minds.  I am not saying that the other candidates aren't worthy (although I really think that Obama is somewhat of a lightweight compared to the others and not really as presidential, yet, as one would hope for).  It's just that the leadership qualities that I look for in a candidate are lacking in the others.  I don't believe (and I may be wrong) that the shift to a more progressive stance on many issues is a move of opportunism in Dodd.  The environment, education and constitutional protections are my main areas of concern and Dodd, for me, is on the correct side of each of these and showing leadership where the others aren't.

Lots of discussion in this thread today.

If anyone gets thirsty, there's light refreshments in the lobby.

Sitka wrote: I don't work for Gore or anyone, so I don't need anyone's support.

You got one half of my double entendre! I was referring to those here who want to convince others AND to AL Gore who is going to need the support of those of us who want other candidates.

Admit it: you are an AL Gore supporter!

Thanks for the straight answer.

That's all you'll ever get from me when you ask a question that has one.

Admit it: you are an AL Gore supporter!

I hope for his candidacy, as you say you do. Does that make you a Gore supporter?

166.

Paz

I agree with you 100% about Chris Dodd, a solid candidate is most respects and there never will be a candidate who will be perfect in every respect -- even Howard wasn't that, though close.

I would feel very comfortable with a Dodd presidency, perhaps an Obama as VP coming along behind to gain experience.

Sitka
Tue, 10/23/07
1:25 pm

It took a while! But that gives Gore about a week. Right before the close of this poll and time to change the pieces and win the DFA endorsement!

My Dodd pic didn't stick to the bloggie, they never do though it was a JPEG. More practice needed.

Since DFA will only endorse a DECLARED candidate, it was confusing when they allowed non-declared "others' to be included. It completely mucks up the endorsement poll.

What they could do, is eliminate the non-declared recalculate the percentages. Still wouldn't be a winner.

Or they can have another poll in November.

If you are going to have vote and an endorse ONLY declared candidates, we will need another poll that ONLY allows votes for those declared candidates.

173.

IMO Obama already has enough experience.

Hoke won't be driving Ms. Daisy or anyone else for that matter IMO.

It ought to be clear to everyone by these poll numbers that by not announcing Gore is clearly ahead of where he would be had he been running for years.

so if he has got it right so far, maybe he knows better than arm chair quarterbacks here

I like to see him jump in before Iowa, but all he has to do is form an exploratory committee and he would do very well

close to half of the attendees here I will call "professionally undecided" in that they take there decision very seriously and want to have all the information before they caucus, and they would respect a late Gore entry

by April when the actual Denver delegates are selected they could all be for Gore 

Superman wears Al Gore pajamas.

....I'm dashing off.

SItka wrote: Does that make you a Gore supporter?

Yes, I am. I support his efforts whatever and however they are taken. But until he declares his candidacy, I support Edwards entirely. Deciding to enter, and not playing these political games others are suggesting, is important to me.

Indy wrote "Since DFA will only endorse a DECLARED candidate, it was confusing when they allowed non-declared 'others' to be included. It completely mucks up the endorsement poll."

I don't really see why.  If a percentage of voters are so unenamoured with the announced candidates that they can't rally around one in sufficient numbers to secure an endorsement, it adequately sends a signal to the organization that they shouldn't endorse any of them.  That's the pulse the poll is trying to take.

From today's Wapo: I agree that Mitt's faith should NOT be an issue. To my mind, his faith is the least offensive thing about him. [And frankly, I am not happy with ANY candidate who believes s/he should share his *faith* ostentatiously with me or anyone else.]

But his politics ... and his warmongering attitude ... are certainly issues.

All the Repug candidates are so unappealing. If by some terrible disaster, any one of them is elected (or selected)President, we are going to lose any grace period that the world has given us so far.

And that IS the truth.

=====================
Romney's Dilemma
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, October 23, 2007; A19

Let's say it unequivocally: Mitt Romney's Mormon faith should not be an issue in this presidential campaign. Period.

And then let us explore why the Mormon "issue" may be unavoidable -- and what Romney and the rest of us should do about it.

Romney's biggest problem is that he is running in a Republican Party that has been saturated by religion in recent years. Other than Sunday's debate on Fox News, the biggest GOP event during the weekend was the straw poll at the Values Voter Summit sponsored by the Family Research Council. These are the venture capitalists of the religious conservative movement.

Romney won the poll very narrowly over former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, who is an ordained Baptist minister. Romney needed to win because his strategy rests on reassembling "the house Ronald Reagan built," as he put it in the Fox debate, and that most definitely includes social and religious conservatives.

The one thing Romney cannot do to put the Mormon issue aside is to say that religion shouldn't matter in politics, since so many of those whose votes he seeks believe otherwise. Romney thus speaks often about faith, but in very general terms. "The values of my faith are much like, or are identical to, the values of other faiths that have a Judeo-Christian philosophical background," he said this month in New Hampshire. "They're American values, if you will."

This also means that Romney cannot do what so many have suggested he must: give the equivalent of John F. Kennedy's 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in which JFK tried to push aside concerns over his Roman Catholicism.

Recall that Kennedy said his professed religious beliefs would have nothing to do with how he governed. "I believe in a president whose views on religion are his own private affair," Kennedy said. But the religious conservative movement believes, on principle, that religious faith cannot be a "private affair," that faith necessarily shapes a politician's views on public issues.

To win votes from the religious right while pushing the Mormon issue aside, Romney therefore has to say that religion matters a great deal -- and also that it doesn't. Any wonder why this is such a tough matter for him to discuss?

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

there/ their

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Arshad was OK in giving the prompt, but the real phone call informing Gore officially should probably come from Jim

and in fact all of the candidates that haven't responded might deserve the same courtesy 

Phil worte "It ought to be clear to everyone by these poll numbers that by not announcing Gore is clearly ahead of where he would be had he been running for years."

Maybe, but his numbers here are not representative of those he polls at in most other surveys, as I tried to show a few days ago.  The DFA poll is an outlier.

Climate change: that timely topic ... and one with which Gore is intimately associated.

===============
Forecast: Heavy Weather
By Eugene Robinson
Tuesday, October 23, 2007; A19

"I've seen fire, and I've seen rain," James Taylor sang sweetly, back when I was in college and both of us had more hair.

If Taylor were writing that song today, given that much of the country is experiencing severe drought, he might want to rethink the "rain" part. "Fire" would still resonate with listeners, though -- especially out in Malibu, where some of the nation's most picturesque and expensive real estate is in flames.

Atlanta is so parched that it's running out of water. The canyons of Southern California are ablaze. Here in Washington, temperatures have been climbing into the 80s -- in late October. Can all this be blamed on that "inconvenient truth" that Nobel laureate Al Gore keeps warning us about? Is climate change -- often imprecisely called "global warming" -- loosing plagues upon the land?

No. Not exactly. Maybe. Probably not. Could be. Nobody knows. You can pretty much take your pick, since it's not possible to link any specific meteorological event -- the strength of the fire-fanning Santa Ana winds in Southern California this year, for example, or the rainfall deficit in the Southeast, or an unusually balmy fall in the Northeast -- with climatological changes that take place over decades or centuries and span the globe.

The weird weather does tend to concentrate the mind, though. Even George W. Bush acknowledges the scientific consensus that climate change is real. Most people, even conservatives, now have no problem taking the next step and acknowledging that human activity -- the burning of fossil fuels and the release of heat-trapping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere -- is causing climate change, or at least accelerating it.

Beyond those fundamentals, though, are a couple of even more inconvenient truths that few seem ready to come to terms with.

One is the fact that if climate change follows its projected course, many people around the world will suffer. But some people, as George Orwell noted, are more equal than others.

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

You know what I'm about to say:  There's a new thread.

This quote from Arhad's letter has thrown things into confusion: And in the end, only an announced candidate can win the DFA endorsement.

This was not part of the original announcement. So does that mean Gore will be thrown out by Nov. 6 and the numbers recalculated? Will the state announcements only include DECLARED candidates? If Gore doesn't announce by Nov. 6, his votes should not be used?

It took a while!

Only for you to understand. I posted the filing deadlines for you about two weeks ago. 

But that gives Gore about a week. Right before the close of this poll and time to change the pieces and win the DFA endorsement!

That's assuming he thinks he needs to participate in the GA and SC primaries. IL's dealdine is Nov. 5 and NH is the 16th.

Dan Froomkin is absolute right. This request is nothing but brazen ... and that is the kindest thing that anyone can say about it.

==============
Bush's Brazen Request
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Tuesday, October 23, 2007; 1:04 PM

Flanking himself with war heroes and taking it upon himself to decide what is good for the troops, President Bush yesterday requested -- one might even say demanded -- that Congress give him yet another $46 billion for his military campaigns, for a total of $196 billion this fiscal year.

Considering Bush's abysmal approval ratings, the widespread opposition to his war in Iraq and the Democratic control of Congress, that was a pretty brazen act. But Bush yesterday made it clear that he is not looking for compromise in the waning months of his presidency. There will be no search for common ground, no outreach to critics, not even further explanation of his policies.

Calling attention to the veterans and family members behind him, Bush combatively announced: "These patriots have come to the Oval Office to make sure -- and to make clear -- that our troops have the full commitment of our government. And I strongly agree that we must provide our troops with the help and support they need to get the job done. Parts of this war are complicated, but one part is not, and that is America should do what it takes to support our troops and protect our people."

According to the latest Washington Post/ABC News poll, nearly 70 percent of Americans -- an overwhelming majority, by any standard -- think Congress shouldn't give Bush all the money he's requesting for the war. And 43 percent think the request should be reduced sharply.

Yet Bush's only acknowledgement of opposition yesterday was a shot across the bow: "I know some in Congress are against the war, and are seeking ways to demonstrate that opposition. I recognize their position, and they should make their views heard. But they ought to make sure our troops have what it takes to succeed. Our men and women on the front lines should not be caught in the middle of partisan disagreements in Washington, D.C. I often hear that war critics oppose my decisions, but still support the troops. Well, I'll take them at their word -- and this is the chance to show it, that they support the troops."

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...