Putin is first.......I looked into his eyes and he told me, "dont f.ck with Iran or else"............

1.

Mike --

Putin just read your post and said thanks but in reality, he feels that --

-- Говард Дин является первым

(translated - Howard Dean is first)

OEB

HOW TO TALK TO A CLIMATE SKEPTIC

http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

Below is a complete listing of the articles in "How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic," a series by Coby Beck containing responses to the most common skeptical arguments on global warming. There are four separate taxonomies; arguments are divided by:

• Stages of Denial,
• Scientific Topics,
• Types of Argument, and
• Levels of Sophistication.

Sitka took me to task for posting a distorted image of Nancy Pelosi, to which I reply, is the fine art of caricature to be trashed in the service of political correctness?

2.

* rdorgan
Thu, 10/18/07
9:55 am

.......
Putin just read your post and said thanks but in reality, he feels that --

-- Говард Дин является первым

(translated - Howard Dean is first)
----------

...lol, Rdorgan where have you learned russian?

APART FROM KUCINICH, DEMS HAVE NO INTENTION OF LEAVING IRAQ

http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/10/17/the-us-will-never-leave-iraq-unless/

The ultimate nightmare for White House/Pentagon designs on Middle East energy resources is not Iran after all: it’s a unified Iraqi resistance, comprising not only Sunnis but also Shi’ites.

“It’s the resistance, stupid” - along with “it’s the oil, stupid”. The intimate connection means there’s no way for Washington to control Iraq’s oil without protecting it with a string of sprawling military “super-bases”.

The ultimate, unspoken taboo of the Iraq tragedy is that the US will never leave Iraq, unless, of course, it is kicked out. And that’s exactly what the makings of a unified Sunni-Shi’ite resistance is set to accomplish…

former - 

I don't know Russian.

I just use a translator:

http://www.freetranslation.com/

I took the test and it came out, Kucinich, Richardson and Biden in that order.  That said,

Gore/Kucinich  :-) 

* rdorgan
Thu, 10/18/07
10:56 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I have a transaltor too.....................

***((&&%%$$#@@  ))((&&&&&&&^%$$##&&)??""+_&^%$##@!@!!@~##^

Translation..................... Red Sucks are going down to another arm pit city....Cleveland.

8.

* rdorgan
Thu, 10/18/07
10:56 am
---------

...lol, Ok, I see.

Thanks for the link.

LONDON - British actress Deborah Kerr, who shared one of cinema’s most famous kisses with Burt Lancaster in “From Here to Eternity,” has died, her agent said Thursday. She was 86.

Kerr, who suffered from Parkinson’s disease, died Tuesday in Suffolk, eastern England, he said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSR7LylTTqg

Peter Paul --

-- has something to say about Hillary and Bill:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7007109937779036019&q=hillary+exposed&total=1630&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

11.

You're welcome.

http://www.peterfpaul.com/2007/10/16/hillarys-crime-on-tape-protected-by-ca-appellate-court/

I hope you're all watching C-SPAN this morning.

Let's here it for Pete Stark of California!

http://www.house.gov/stark/

wOOT!

He just gave it to Arnold and all those Californian Bush Republican members of congress.

Sitka took me to task for posting a distorted image of Nancy Pelosi, to which I reply, is the fine art of caricature to be trashed in the service of political correctness?

A caricature highlights a person's true features. That's not the same as using photoshop to monsterize someone. And it isn't about political correctness (that favorite putdown of conservatives). It's about childishness like drawing a moustache and horns on someone's picture that got old and unamusing long ago.

It isn't hard to find pictures, doctored or not, that actually make a point or convey a substantive message 

Mike wrote "Red Sucks are going down to another arm pit city....Cleveland."

This seems like a somewhat unkind cut to both Rep. Kucinich and audrey.nc.

Re: The Forbes polling

Who already reads Forbes Magazine these days, anyway.

---

Re: All those "polls" in general

Professional Pollsters are interesting creatures of persuasion. My observation is that their polls don't hold much truth this early before a primary. But they do have an intriguing way of giving the corporate media news feeders and the partisan talking heads something to dish out on their soapboxes come early Sunday mornings and late weekday afternoons. Not enough of the regular folks are paying attention this early and those are the folks who we're going to need to get to the polls on election day. If any one of the "party chosen" candidates don't jazz them on election day they just will not go and vote. In the end it is their vote that is the one that will make the difference. Political operatives can't use fear or hate as motivational tools on these folks any more because as we all know (from reading the polls) that they already have a very low opinion of congress.

Who already s/b Who all really

Tom Bearse 18.....

Yes it is, and thank you. We had a Repub. Mayor once who set his hair on fire, or the Cuyahoga River, or something.

That's why we love Kucinich! Take the test, and you'll love him too. lol

Stick to the issues and leave mud wallowing to the hogs.  

Hi Folks,

This cartoon from a friend.  I'll see if it posts.

Cloning Dangerfield
...I only could only WISH I look like this man's mother when I turn 87...(thinking optimistically)

http://current.com/items/85133991_clonin...

audrey wrote "That's why we love Kucinich! Take the test, and you'll love him too. lol"

I do like Kucinich.  These tests are ubiquitous, so I really haven't devoted much time to them, but my ABC News Matchomatic results were Gravel, Obama and Kucinich in that order.

Nope.

Frankly, I'm disgusted.  I just don't see any of the running candidates either willing or capable of changing the direction of this country.  On NPR this morning, Bush has restarted the Cold War; Putin is resuming nuclear production; the Senate has passed a bill exempting telecom companies from liability and has allowed umbrella spying without court approval.

I simply don't know where to go with any of this.  Congress is worse than ineffectual: it is complicit.  

The only hope I have is for citizens of thoughtfulness, good character, and demonstrating the virtue of participation in community to continue to lead ethical and compassionate lives.  I think the gods must be laughing at us.  The Trojan Wars continue as we fight amongst ourselves, only we aren't immortal.  What we do today has implications for our children and grandchildren.

Have to admit to bleakness. 

How does a Rodney Dangerfield clone in PA hook up with an Austin Powers clone in LV?

27. LOL They didn't disclose that, did they? ...maybe Part Deux?

Audrey, don't laugh, didn't know...must have missed it, that you're in Cleveland. Thought NC was for North Carolina.

I never had the chance to spend time in CLE, just drive throughs, sadly. But I hear you all have one of the BEST Little Italy's.

http://www.cleveland.com/littleitalyguid...

I simply don't know where to go with any of this.  Congress is worse than ineffectual: it is complicit.

Wise people have been saying for years that the Democratic Party must be changed before anything else can. I didn't have a lot of hope when the Dems won last Nov, but I didn't expect them to be THIS bad. Maybe the wiser people are those who say the Democratic party is corrupt beyond redemption after 2 centuries and people who really want change need to build elsewhere rather than try to rebuild an edifice that's rotten to its foundation.

Sitka wrote "Maybe the wiser people are those who say the Democratic party is corrupt beyond redemption after 2 centuries and people who really want change need to build elsewhere rather than try to rebuild an edifice that's rotten to its foundation."

Take two aspirin and call Dr. Dean in the morning.  

Take two aspirin and call Dr. Dean in the morning.

Dean is the rebuilder. I'm starting to wonder if it's enough.

Not sure that even Dr. Dean's diligence and energy can change things.  What kind of empty headed audience on Jay Leno would mock Howard Dean, and what's with Obama anyway, and for that matter Edwards? ??

If two aspirins would do it, I'd take them. 

http://www.guaranteedhealthcare.org/

Hillary Care: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz9cm613O...

Obama Care: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLNTB-4t4...

Edwards Care: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJTxRf6x...

-----

“I strongly support universal single-payer government-provided or government-funded health care” --- Al Gore

"Gore Goes SiCKO" on Michael Moore’s Web site: http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Gore: http://current.com/items/84987281_health...

Now we see how people accidentally overdose taking the entire bottle.

I don't see the changes coming if things don't shake up from where they are now, and if that doesn't happen, I can't be part of continuing the same path.


before i head off for the day, I'd like to leave you with this incredible pod....Viewer Content video.

http://current.com/items/76346422_seeing...

Pat wrote "I just don't see any of the running candidates either willing or capable of changing the direction of this county."

I understand the onset of depression from having meek Democrats in Congress, but I’m nonplussed by otherwise sensible Democrats who give into feelings of dispair and hopelessness. No candidates are perfect, and the leading candidates are, in general, far from it. But as with the current Democratic presidential candidates, did you discern no substantive difference in the change of administrations between Bush and Clinton? Did you think a Gore presidency wouldn’t have made a demonstrable difference from Bush’s? After Dean lost his primary, did you think there was nothing to choose between Kerry and Bush?

I look at history and believe we will experience radical change after a Democrat dethrones the head of the Republican oligarchy in 2008. Not just in policy, but in foreign relations, in the status of the U.S. around the world, in the U.S. role within the world community, and in the American political agenda. No matter what Democrat is elected, there’s going to be a shift away from American military interference as the preeminent weapon against international terrorism, because this scheme was uniquely a product of Bush under the sway of the radical neoconservatives who helped get him and keep him in office.

THREE MORE FOR IMPEACHMENT....

They have signed on to Kucinich's HRes333 to Impeach Dick Cheney !!!!!!

Here is the first: Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick
Call her and give her some praise Capitol Switch. 1-877-331-1223
Send her some love for her next campaign:
2441 W. Grand Blvd., Detroit, Mi. 48208, or 1-313-895-0820

No candidates are perfect,

We're not talking "Democrats aren't perfect."

We're talking "Democrats are Republicans." 

OK, here' a little more taste, then I'm off.

I look at history and believe we will experience radical change after a Democrat dethrones the head of the Republican oligarchy in 2008.

What history would that be? How anyone can see radical change from this bunch who collaborate with Bush is beyond understanding. 

Last week in New Hampshire, Obama said he not only supports Free Trade, but  was supporting  Peru to the Trade Agreement.

SUPPORTERS  CALL HIM NOW 

Sitka wrote "We're not talking ‘Democrats aren't perfect.’ We're talking ‘Democrats are Republicans.’"

Yes, I understand that. A couple of points in response. I think it’s necessary to appreciate that a candidate like Clinton, for example, is going to garner support in states traditionally indifferent or even hostile to Democrats like Virginia or the Carolinas, or some of the southwestern states. If she also polls well in traditional liberal strongholds like New England and the Eastern Seaboard, that’s bound to make her a politically imposing figure, despite her foreign policy vacillation and lukewarm support for other signature liberal causes.

Also, we have to have patience if we’re going to reap the rewards of representative democracy because compromise is a necessary component of any veto proof bill that becomes law. It’s also a fact of modern American political life that without public campaign financing, political office holders are timid about bold positions and beholden to generous contributors. The frustration is palpable, undoubtedly, but you need someone like Mussolini in office if you demand that the trains run on time at any cost. I mean, we all know that Americans are in favor of that.

Good god! Instead of taking meaningful measures to change our dependence on oil, the Dem congress is about to approve more oil exploitation.

Every day I find they're worse than I thought the day before.

17.A caricature highlights a person's true features.

A caricature exaggerates a person's distintive features, often to the point of grotesquery. viz;

Sitka wrote "What history would that be?"

I mentioned the transitions from the Bush to Clinton to Bush administrations because of the esteem President Clinton was held around the world, in comparison to the disgust with which President Bush is regarded.  I mean just look at environmental protection, the national economy, federal judicial appointements, the whole nine yards. 

I never voted for Clinton in a primary, but supporting his election over Bush and Dole was a foregone conclusion.  I don't know how you can think otherwise.

I used to think like that before DCDems stuck one hundred knives too many in my back.

Always makes me nervous when DICK Cheney is out over-seeing 'war games' - he's in Oregon right now doing just that.  And at the same time - Russia is having 'war games'.  The last time Cheney was over-seeing 'war games' - was DURING 9/11....party of why we were caught so OFF GUARD.  Mighty fortunate timing for the terrorists.

New Cold War: Simultaneously, Russia and America Conduct Major War Games

I don't know how you can think otherwise.

Bill Clinton sold us down the river. I don't know how you can think otherwise.

Tom, you're fighting a losing battle trying to defend the pathetic bunch of Bush collaborators who now control the house and senate.

#37, No, Tom, I didn't discern much difference between Kerry and Bush.  I saw Kerry as weak and not very bright and very much beholden to corporate interests, even though his heart might have been in the right place.  Further, I saw a Democratic Party beholden to corporate interests and the military/corporate/ideological enitites.

As to Clinton, he seemed to me an inherently weak man who coveted status and money.  He bargained away ethical stands: for instance his environmental contributions came at the end of his presidency.  He schmoozed his way around policies, and his lack of discipline and commitment paved the way for this disaster that is Bush.  I read that Gore was the one who kept him on task, scrutinized many of his proposals and decisions. Frankly, Bill should have remained a saxophone player  Though brilliant and charismatic, he did not offer strength or integrity to the office.

I just don't see much leadership, Tom.  Obama's reneging on his promise, his coporate backers; Hillary's coroporatist leanings and support, her waffling, her willingness to punish, her compromising such as the flag burning amendment, etc. not only disappont me, but also do not inspire me with trust.

Edwards seems thin, light, superficial, more American idol to me.  He hasn't proven that he can influence and lead others, only that he's very bright and was a very successful lawyer.

I could go on and on, though each of the candidates has talent, perhaps the best interests of the American people at heart, I don't see the kind of leader that can disentangle us form the web of connections of money, power, greed, and ideology that can set us on a new course.

Again, I just may be very bleak today, but I can't seem to find reasons not to be. 

A caricature exaggerates a person's distintive features, often to the point of grotesquery. viz;

That's not the same as drawing beard and horns on a picture, which is what much photoshop gimmicry amounts to. 

And the cartoon you just posted actually made a point which the photo you posted yesterday didn't. 

OK, really, before leaving, in honor of our upcoming Halloween Holiday and costumes and all that.

"Oh, help us the One Gorenobly" 

Sitka wrote "I used to think like that before DCDems stuck one hundred knives too many in my back."

That's fine.  I'm not blaming you.  Whatever gets accomplished will only be with great effort, hard work and constant vigilence.  There's no shortcut unfortunately.

Howard Dean speaks for me.

Linda in SFN.....

I do live in N.C. I was born in Cleve and ived there most of my life. They do have a great Little Italy.mmmm. lots of ethnic restaurants and bakeries. Marshmallow donuts from the Polish bakery is what got me to school mornings.

Again, I just may be very bleak today, but I can't seem to find reasons not to be. 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No Pat, actually this is a very sensible post...............

Pat wrote "No, Tom, I didn't discern much difference between Kerry and Bush."

All right.  Suit yourself.  However, I'll be blunt and say I don't believe you unless you write back and say you would, in good conscience, just as soon have voted for Bush as Kerry in November 2004.

This quote is the main reason I think Gore will stay out of the 08 race (from Bob Herbert):

Al Gore is a serious man confronted by a political system that is not open to a serious exploration of important, complex issues. He knows it. “What politics has become,” he said, with a laugh and a tinge of regret, “requires a level of tolerance for triviality and artifice and nonsense that I have found in short supply.”

That's the statement that I paraphrased crudely in responding to Seashell, drawing a well deserved smackdown from Linda SFNM

I took the Forbes survey -- Kucinich, Edwards, Biden, Obama


Will Charlie Chamberlain update the DFA straw poll or is it over?


Did y'all see the headlines about Condi forging peace in the Mideast? ROFLMAO!!!!
She must have the finest PR person on the planet.

Pulse poll DFA to be announced Nov 6th. When all else fails read the directions.

Tom Bearse
Thu, 10/18/07
12:39 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I dont know what planet youre on or from Tom, but a new Democrapic administration would STILL be beholden to the same foreign policy interests and corporate donors as the Repubs....you may THINK they are gonna change things, but I doubt it very much...............

just as soon have voted for Bush as Kerry in November 2004.

She said "not much difference." That is not "the same as."

Don't twist people's words. 

You are putting my opinions into a box, Tom.  I voted for Kerry believing that he was the better choice though not a choice that would serve us the way we needed.  I never would have, could have, voted for Bush.  Harper's published an article about Bush as Governor of Texas before the election that was damning.  Bush put his cronies on the Board of Regents of the University of Texas, and as you know, lots of money is invested by universities.  Well, his buddies reaped huge profits from their investments.

And Bush's failures in business, his personal history, his arrogance, entitlement, etc. and his ignorance that allowed Cheney and the NeoCons to take over our foreign policy as well as our domestic affairs, corrupting department after department and privatizing as much as he could get away with.

I sometimes wonder if Profesor Strauss at the University of Chicago whose philosophy dealt with power as separate from ethics and the necessity of doing everything to maintain that power is not one of the people most responsible for the decline of our civilization.

Tom, it's not either or.  It's leadership, integrity, vision, persuasiveness, the common good, and frankly, I don't think Kerry, had he been elected, could have done much to reverse course.  It's not either or, it's neither. 

Tom Bearse
Thu, 10/18/07
11:36 am
___________________________________________________________________________

if it makes ya feel any better, Robert, id say the same thing for my hometown as well............

Sitka wrote "She said not much difference.’That is not ‘the same as.’"

Thanks for reading along. In other words, there is a difference.

Mike wrote "I dont know what planet youre on or from Tom, but a new Democrapic administration would STILL be beholden to the same foreign policy interests and corporate donors as the Repubs....you may THINK they are gonna change things, but I doubt it very much..............."

We'll see.

Thanks for reading along. In other words, there is a difference.

No thanks to you for once again manipulating people's words. 

Pat wrote "I never would have, could have, voted for Bush."

Thank you for that, because I read here that Democrats are Republicans.  I had faith in you.

We'll see.

We have seen. Clinton signed into law virtually every corporate scam the GOP sent him. 

Sitka wrote "No thanks to you for once again manipulating people's words."

I don’t doubt you’re trying to be helpful, but everyone’s common English words are on public display here. We’ll try to manage communicating without your intercession.

schip 17 votes short.

I read here that Democrats are Republicans.

Yes, you do....... 

"Democratic leadership has promised to bring Big Oil's dream trade deal - the Peru NAFTA expansion - up for a vote by the end of October."

" the Senate has passed a bill exempting telecom companies from liability and has allowed umbrella spying without court approval."

Is this what passes for "Democratic" these days? To many kool-aid drinkers, yes, sad to say.

For those defending Democratic Inaction on Iraq..........

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rob_kall_071018_the_dcc_just_hung_up.htm

All I can say is that the Dems will keep screwing us, their constituents, if we don't make it totally clear to them that we are wise to them and their bullshit-- that we know they could stop the war by ending funding by NOT voting on legislation.

Then, there's the latest democrat shame. The senate Dem invertebrates, led by Harry Reid (examples of invertebrates: slugs, jellyfish, bacteria, dung beetles, tapeworms) are going to give immunity to the telecoms that helped the Bush amdin spy on Americans. I'd say that makes them part of the problem.

What's the solution to Invertebrate Congress?
The solution is to dump a whole lot of incumbents. 
We need to make it harder for incumbents to run again and easier for new competition to enter races. And we need to make a level playing field for third party candidates. That means federal legislation requiring equal treatment for third party candidates. Here in PA, an obscenity exists. A third party candidate must get about 30 or 40 times more signatures on petitions to get on the ballot.

Today, it looks like the Dems will fail to over-ride the Bush SCHIP veto. They'll give immunity to to Telecoms who aided and abetted domestic spying. Who are these politicians? Did we really elect them?

Next spring, a whole lot of them should be facing primary fights. Hopefully, a few of them... hell, maybe even a lot of them... will lose. We need to take them on and dump them.

everyone’s common English words are on public display here.

Which makes your repeated attempts to change what people say in order to suit your arguments rather silly. 

Sitka wrote "Which makes your repeated attempts to change what people say in order to suit your arguments rather silly."

There’s a record. I’m relying on it. If 1) Democrats are Republicans means the same as 2) there is a difference between Democrats and Republicans, then we’re in total agreement throughout the course of this thread.

In your face Bush!

*******************************************************************

Our responsibility as individuals and as a group is to work towards getting the best candidate in each individual election - and then working towards getting those individual(s) elected. After that, it's up to them ( with our continued guidance and prodding ).

 If each of us can find only one candidate who we can get solidly behind locally and donate some of our time going door-to-door or making phone calls for that one candidate. A secondary benefit of that is to not have time and negative energy left to waste on complaining about all the lousy candidates whom we choose not to support.

Oh, for the 20 / 20 hindsight to have followed my own advice in 2004 !

Won't waste energy complaining in 2008 !

Hope you have a candidate who reflects your excellent core values, Sitka.

THE ABANDONED DEMOCRATIC MANDATE

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bernard__071017_will_dems_commit_pol.htm

Democrats, who inherited a clear mandate for major change in the midterm elections, especially on the need to get the U.S. out of Iraq, have little to show for their victory. Several committee chairmen (symbolized by Waxman, Conyers, Leahy, a few others) have conducted important hearings and investigations. But in the main, this amounts to Democrats nipping at CheneyBush around the edges, hardly ever confronting their impeachable offenses frontally. Certainly, the Democrats make a lot of noise, hold a lot of one-day hearings and the like, but CheneyBush made a conscious political decision to simply ignore them.

Time and time again, the Dems back away or roll over for the Republicans, who by holding together in Congress create real obstructionist problems for the Democrats.

Even so, the Dems allow their favorite bills to go down to defeat (especially on the war) on the mere threat of a GOP filibuster, without ever making the Republicans actually mount a filibuster, where they would have to put themselves on the record attempting to defend the indefensible. Similarly, the Democrats have within their power -- 41 Senate votes would do it -- to withhold war-funding for anything other than bringing U.S. troops home, but the Dems don't even attempt such a move. In short, the Democrats are mostly bark with no effective bite, and they've taken their major weapon, impeachment, "off the table"; as a result of all this timidity and embarrassing lack of progress, the approval ratings for Congress are even lower than they are for Bush and Cheney, especially so with rank-and-file Democrats.

Tom Bearse
Thu, 10/18/07
1:21 pm
___________________________________________________________________________

Ever heard of the song by The Monkes, Day Dream Believer?

Mike wrote "Ever heard of the song by The Monkes, Day Dream Believer?"

Cheer up Sleepy Jean.

Hope you have a candidate who reflects your excellent core values, Sitka.

Of the declared candidates, Kucinich, seems to be closest to where I stand.

67.

Tom Bearse
Thu, 10/18/07
1:21 pm


Mike wrote "I dont know what planet youre on or from Tom, but a new Democrapic administration would STILL be beholden to the same foreign policy interests and corporate donors as the Repubs....you may THINK they are gonna change things, but I doubt it very much..............."

We'll see.
------------

70.

Sitka
Thu, 10/18/07
1:24 pm

We'll see.

We have seen. Clinton signed into law virtually every corporate scam the GOP sent him.
**********

I tend to join to Tom's doubts this time around.

There are much more powerful forces about to come into play then Mike and Sitka mention - IT IS ECONOMY ITSELF, it's own "internal" laws that are OBJECTIVE (not subjective, e.g. ultimately not susceptible to any individual's, personal properties)!

Every "prof" politician knows that (I'm sure because even! current President does familiar with that too..., lol).

Therefore, as I was saying before, politician's words and deeds ARE NOT the one and the same...since CHANGES ECONOMY DEMANDS ARE CONFLICTING in its very nature!

To process, to resolve such a conflict as peacefully as possible may require double talk, cleverness, cunnings, etc.

Direct, bald talks (not to mention actions) in a situation where someone "unstable" does have real power, is simply dangerous.

That's why, "We'll see".

Off for a while.  Good discussion.  Keep the faith.

Hope you have a candidate who reflects your excellent core values, Sitka.

Of the declared candidates, Kucinich, seems to be closest to where I stand.

*************************************************

Call his office and ask him to make an appearance in your area. You won't be disappointed.

Call his office and ask him to make an appearance in your area. You won't be disappointed.

He can make his own plans. I don't need to see him in person and wouldn't go if here came here.

Props to Andrew C. White.

Slap that donkey, folks.

Hard.

http://tinyurl.com/2pjpdt

I just read Edwards' health care initiative, and he says we need a government system that competes with the private sector.

That is exactly what I think we need. Edwards would be my first choice. There is not really that much difference between them in Iraq.

The differences are overblown. They all want to get out, how fast is something they will all decide when they get in office. I don't put much stock in what any of them say now.

81.Michael Ellis

Ever heard of the song by The Monkes, Day Dream Believer?
================

Mike, the monkeys were created by a corporation. That song was done originally by someone else, Petula Clark, maybe?

Who ever said "money grows on trees ?"

It grows on grass(roots) instead:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/20071017/pl_cq_politics/obamaraises1milliononlinein1day_1

90.

Biden made it into my top three picks in the PPP:

OEB

Wakeup!

 The Democratic Party is the Left Wing of the Neocon Party and the Republicans are the Right Wing.

 Vote  Libertarian for Congress and  Ron Paul for President! 

Sam Ross....77

Your post about the Iraq contract to China and Iran to build power plants in Iraq is quite intriguing when you think of the ramifications.

Do you suppose Iraq feels that they will get us out by the time construction starts? Are these nuclear power plants, or is that a given? What an ingenious plan. How could we bomb them? Haliburton will be upset with Bush. If the chinese hire Haliburton, then Bush would probably move our troops, if they were in the way, (anything for Corporate welfare).
Maybe that is another way to get our troops home.

The whold idea just stimulates the imagination.

"Wakeup!"

Where did I hear that word used often before ?

Oh yeah, by third-party candidate Ross Perot when he was running for prez in 1992 on the Reform Party ticket.

OH, BTW, here's who Perot endorsed in the 2000 prez race:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0011/02/lkl.00.html

Aired November 2, 2000 - 9:00 p.m. ET

...

What do you know?  A new thread and peace is first.

new thread folks

CAROLYN KILPATRICK is a hero!!! Even heroes like to hear a thank you. Call her. Her no. is at #38 post.

So since it can't be Howard Dean - and if no amount of urging will make Al Gore an option - the choice is clear - it's Kucinich.  These are all highly intelligent men with a realistic finger on the pulse of the people.  They are socially conscious - Kucinich constantly carries a pocket sized version of the Constitution.

 Peace Love and Flowers