I thought we had this blog before. But it's a goodie.

Howard Dean is still first round these parts.

Hi Joan, thanks for the 'new' thread notice :-)

Passing through... again.

Linda, ROFL about the Thompson comment by Nixon (3 on prev. thread)

seashell, happy dancing :-)

I'll repeat a coupla posts from the tail end of last thread, cuz they're relevant to this thread topic.

Pelosi Expresses Disdain for Anti-War Protesters In Front of Her House: "If they were poor and they were sleeping on my sidewalk, they would be arrested for loitering, but because they have 'Impeach Bush' across their chest, it's the First Amendment." Good Grief! Then she decides to jump on the 'Great Decider' bandwagon. "They are advocates," she said. "We are leaders."

would any of our Democrat defenders care to comment?

http://impeachforpeace.org/impeach_bush_blog/?p=3777

Christiane Brown (KJFK, Reno) interviews Senate Majority Leader Harry and presses him on why he admits impeachable offenses have been commited but opposes impeachment. Reid says that impeaching Bush would just give you Cheney, but Brown points out that Cheney can be impeached too (in fact, the only impeachment bill in Congress right now is to impeach Cheney). Reid says there's not enough time, but Brown points out how swift past impeachments have been. Reid struggles and fails to find a coherent explanation.

Both congressional Democratic "leaders" are Bush Democrats!

gotta run

♥'s to all

Kindness is free!

GLEN FORD ON CLARENCE THOMAS

http://www.blackagendareport.com/

Sheehan/2008                   I may never vote Democratic again. The Rethugs are pigs and I have never voted for them.           How will the Dems. vote for spying on it's citzens? A BIG vote.

WOOT ...DraftGore.com has run the ad!!!!

New York Times Full Page Ad

Open Letter to Al Gore.

'Draft Gore' Movement Makes '08 Pitch



October 10, 2007 1:11 PM

ABC News' Nitya Venkataraman Reports: Grassroots organization DraftGore.com pleaded with former Vice President Al Gore to enter the 2008 presidential fray via an "open letter" in the New York Times.

Written on behalf of volunteers and petitioners behind the DraftGore movement and addressed to Gore, the full-page ad in the Times' A-section says:

"You say you have fallen out of love with politics, and you have every reason to feel that way. But we know you have not fallen out of love with your country. And your country needs you now -- as do your party and the planet you are fighting so hard to save." (LINK) ( GO HERE FOR LINK TO PDF OF FULL AD)
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/...

The beat of war drums along the Potomac — from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., to Capitol Hill, and from Neo-Con Central at the headquarters of the Weekly Standard to the halls of the Pentagon — is growing in intensity just as it did five years ago in the months leading to the invasion of Iraq. This time, however, the target over which the war hawks are sharpening their spears is not a relatively small and ill-prepared country in the Middle East, but a country larger in land mass than the state of Alaska and with a population nearly four times as large as Iraq's.

Despite the fact that many Americans would probably confuse Iraq with Iran on a map, lumping both together as "Arab" countries, the two countries are more dissimilar than alike. For starters, only about 3 percent of Iran's population is Arab, compared to nearly 80 percent in Iraq. Historically, the predominantly Persian Iran and its Arab neighbor to the west have been at odds more than they've enjoyed cordial relations.

Geographically, Iran presents a much more complex set of logistical concerns than did Iraq. Iran has significantly longer land and maritime borders than does Iraq. Iran borders three bodies of water — the Caspian Sea, the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman; Iraq possesses but a tiny sliver of a sea coast. Iran's much larger land mass and population base, including potential armed forces strength of 15 million to 30 million, and its more homogenous citizenry, work to complicate military planning considerably — if properly done.

The economic muscle Iran wields, while weakened by corruption and inefficiency (as in Iraq), far exceeds that of its Arab neighbor — more than $600 billion compared to Iraq's anemic $88 billion. Iran's international trade, like Iraq's, is predominantly based on petroleum exports, and is about twice Iraq's. However, Iran's list of trading partners is much more diverse than Iraq's, which relies on exports to a single country — the United States — for nearly half its exports. Many U.S. allies, including Japan and Germany, are major trading partners with Iran. China figures just as significantly in Tehran's international trade. Further complicating the picture is the fact that recent intelligence establishes that China is supplying military arms and equipment to Iran.

By most other indices of economic development, Iran far outpaces Iraq (under either Saddam Hussein or the U.S.-backed Maliki government), including such indices as the numbers of telephones, radios and televisions, which provide the means by which the governing authority communicates with the population and its supporters.

While many in the United States delight in ridiculing Iran's president, Mahmud Ahmadinejad — a task made easy by some of the unusual positions espoused by the Iranian leader — such practice can beguile leaders into potentially serious miscalculations about the support the leadership in Tehran enjoys, and would enjoy, if the U.S. were to attack or to be perceived as attacking through surrogates.

Should Washington simply sit back and leave Iran alone — free to support terrorist groups and regimes in other countries, including Iraq, and to develop a nuclear capability? Of course not. Even considering that our lengthy and continuing occupation of Iraq has greatly strengthened Ahmadinejad, the United States has a clear and legitimate stake in what happens in Iran and with regard to matters in which that regime is involved elsewhere.

What is important, however, should be to quell the simplistic blustering by the White House and by many presidential candidates designed to prove each will be tougher on Iran than the others. Also helpful would be putting a lid on unnecessary and repetitive insults and threats directed at the Ahmadinejad administration — a pastime that simply strengthens the regime in Tehran and does nothing to build support for legitimate efforts to weaken the regime.

Positive steps could include strengthening economic and political pressure on Iran, and increased efforts to quietly but actively build on the deep base of political understanding that already exists among a large segment of the Iranian population (and including the more than one million Iranian-Americans).

Unlike the Iraqi population before the 2003 U.S.-led invasion, which had never enjoyed a participatory political system, millions of Iran's citizens have tasted and understand the benefits of such freedom. It would be a shame if, in a rush to prove something politically at home or abroad, the U.S. were to initiate a military confrontation that would not only destroy that base of support, but lead to a conflict vastly more costly and lengthy than the invasion of Iraq has turned out to be.

~~Finis 

— Former congressman and U.S. Attorney Bob Barr!?!?

What if Clinton picked Dean for V.P.?   Any thoughts? Politics is so phukd. Wage peace.    

40.

Sam Ross
Wed, 10/10/07
5:54 pm

Last year, the CEOs of the 500 biggest U.S. companies averaged $15.2 million in total annual compensation, according to Forbes business magazine’s annual executive pay survey. The top eight CEOs on the Forbes list each pocketed over $100 million. (Some Pharmaceutical CEO's make over $300 million!) And the average working man/woman???
====================

We need a CEO tax for any pig making over a nominal multiple of Average worker salary for the corporation. Maybe with several progressive tiers.

That will keep more money in this country and less in overseas capital markets.

14.

Interesting idea or are you being funny?

I have a relative who started the original stock option program for ceo's.  He recently went to Iraq. The Industrial complex is working hard. Why does  Dr.Paul seem to be the only candidate to mention it? I'm sorry, this is a Dem. blog.(Guest comment0    Sherri , thanks for the update on Tara. Where did Tom go ? I hope it was progressive    Good luck to all. Oct. 27th, get in the streets.

Bush Democrats, you are on notice. BEWARE.

would any of our Democrat defenders care to comment?

Well, as someone who once gave Pelosi a first on this blog, I have to award her the prize for Greatest Disappointment. 

What if Clinton picked Dean for V.P.?

I expect the GOP nominee would do it before Hillary would. 

Are the Dems. gonig to help the communication companys from litigation from illegal spying ?

Obama First Democrat To Acknowledge Risk of More Stolen Elections

I've got to agree with Kevin on Hillary's torture comment...

HRC: Well I think I've been very clear about that too, we should not conduct or condone torture and it is not clear yet exactly what this administration is or isn't doing, we're getting all kinds of mixed messages. I don't think we'll know the truth until we have a new President. I think once you can get in there and actually bore into what's been going on, you're not going to know. I was very touched by the story you guys had on the front page the other day about the WWII interrogators. I mean it's not the same situation but it was a very clear rejection of what we think we know about what is going on right now but I want to know everything, and so I think we have to draw a bright line and say "No torture — abide by the Geneva conventions, abide by the laws we have passed," and then try to make sure we implement that.

Well, OK. I like the "bright line" comment, but "what we think we know about what is going on right now" isn't exactly a ringing denunciation. I think we have a pretty good idea of what we know right now.

Yeah Fred -  With the Republicans in power for six years -- we, the normal Americans have become 'slaves' to the rich.

hmmmmm......BUSHDemocrats....  You know, the only way we'll lose the Presidency and any seats in Congress in 2008 - is if - they can DIVIDE AND CONQUER US. 

For one thing - I don't think I'd personally like a bunch of people in my FRONT YARD (especially with these terrorist fear times) with big signs that said - anything.   In fact - I'd really like to know WHO they are and WHO they represented.   And just where Senate leader Pelosi's PROTECTION WAS???    For another - if Pelosi and Democrats went after inpeachment, it would put THE WAR, THE ECONOMY, THE REST OF THE FRAUD AND INVESTIGATIONS INTO THIS REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION ...on the back burner.  The Republicans would probably even like that.  Sure - it would feel good, but it would be cutting off our noses to spite our faces...

It's the Republican chant that --- the Democrats are at fault for not stopping the war, etc.  While they vote against every move we make - and Bush will veto everything.   It took them six years to get us into this big of a mess - and you want the Democrats to fix it in - how many months?

Quite frankly, because of the SECRECY, I think we (the Democrats) are just finding the tip of the iceberg on what horrors this Administration has done.  Talk about overwhelming.

I love it when the big monster comes in and smashes everything - then the good guys come in, they're all trying to beat the heck out of the monster - have him partially wounded, holding one arm behind his back.....and then a bunch of onlookers are shouting "HEY - you're not cleaning this place up fast enough!"

The DraftGore ad is having an impact!

I watched the local news tonight and there was a clip saying a group of voters
is working hard to get another Democratic candidate to enter the race!

A spokeswoman for Gore said he's still staying out of the race,
but added that after the nominees from both major parties are chosen,
people might still not be satisfied with their choices
and perhaps an Independent candidate would enter the race.

(She mentioned Bloomberg as an example, but gimme a break.)
Is there any hope of getting Gore to enter as an Independent?

15. Fred, inline with your comments on CEO compensation...from John Edwards:

Nothing better reflects the problems with our tax code than the lower tax rates for capital gains. As Warren Buffett says, there is something wrong when he pays taxes at a lower rate than his secretary. As president, Edwards will:

• Raise the tax rate on capital gains to 28 percent for the most fortunate taxpayers – taxing the investment income of the wealthiest Americans similarly to the wages of the middle class.
• Repeal the Bush tax cuts for the highest-income households and keep the tax on very large estates (above $4 million for couples).
• Declare war on offshore tax havens by cracking down on tax shelter promoters, cooperating with allies to fight tax havens, and closing the "tax gap" by improving IRS customer service, simplifying tax filing, auditing more large corporations and high-income individuals and requiring more third-party reporting.
• Close unfair loopholes like the tax breaks for hedge funds and private equity fund managers and unlimited executive pensions.

i just have to re-post this:

http://www.truthdig.com/images/reportupl...

There is just something about a Bush Dem. that makes you want to donate to anyone who is running against them.
Can't wait for Bush Dem Pelosi's name to be put up there so we can get on her case.
Code Pink seems to be getting to her. If they were only poor, she thinks, she could have them arrested. Poor little Nancy.

Are the Dems. gonig to help the communication companys from litigation from illegal spying ?

With DCDems, it's best to expect the worst and be pleasnatly surprised if you're wrong --  which you will rarely be.

I respectfully ask for your support.  I started with the Howard Dean campaign during the Sleepless Summer tour in 2003.  I was unemployed at the time and had time on my hands.  Heard Howard speak in San Antonio in August 2003 and went to work.  Howard asked us to run for office, both party and governmental, so I ran for County Chairman in a county that is heavily republican and had no working Democratic organization.  I went to Iowa to campaign for Howard.  I spent two years organizing my county party and decided not to run for chair again so I could run for county commissioner.  I am proud to be a progressive.  I need your support.  Check my campaign site at Democracy for America and my campaign web site at larryhorton.org  They tell me I don't have a chance but they have told me that since I started this in '03.  I have been challenged and threatened but have fought on.  As my friend and former candidate for Texas Attorney General says "fight em till Hell freezes over and then fight them on ice".  Please show your support.

 Thanks

Larry Horton for Comal (Texas) County Commissioner Precinct 1, Larry Sutton Treasurer

hmmmmm......BUSHDemocrats.... 

A BUSHDemocrat is a REAGANDemocrat who somehow managed to get even dumber over the years. 

Posting an acive link to your website, Larry Horton. Nice site.

http://larryhorton.org/

Also a big rant about a little bit of everything, especially Democrats who forget who they are and what they stand for.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1568

Just saying hi and goodnight. The filmconnection.org http://www.filmconnection.org now has the movie LIVES OF OTHERS available to borrow (borrowing movies there is free). Lives of Others is about a family in 1980's East Berlin and the Stasi wiretapping them. It's not to be missed. Good to have Seashell check in. Nitie nitie borgie.

So, I say --- Code Pink you pansies!   Why aren't you at the WhiteHouse or Crawford Texas?????  Or at Dick Cheney's house!  Right....

ABOUT the protesters:

25.

listener
Wed, 10/10/07
9:28 pm


The DraftGore ad is having an impact!
.....
(She mentioned Bloomberg as an example, but gimme a break.)
Is there any hope of getting Gore to enter as an Independent?
----------

imo, if he does enter then as independent only.

Thanks floridagal!!

 I am getting tired of those false Democrats and false progressive also.  Keep up the fight folks.

26. *** cChalfonte***

====================
Thanks for the response. Yes I saw Edwards on NewsHour just now. He was good. My one disappointment was his calling Ahmedinejad "bellicose," a cheap shot, to be sure.

He may be defiant, and even rediculous, but all he did was talk about peace, love and understanding, when here. Is he credible? It depends on who you ask, but "bellicose" doesn't describe him at all, at least the way he talks, and while Edwards is not in favor of attacking Iran, he contributes to the hawkish mood with such overkill terminology.

Pelosi is delusional if she said that she turned the Congress around for the American people. I haven't seen any signs. For some reason as an American "people", I'm not feeling grateful for what she has done. I asked her to resign last week, so someone could take her place who is willing to protect the Constitution. She could stop Code Pink from acting "improperly" in front of her house. All she needs to do is put Hres 333 on the table, and impeach Cheney. That will not make her President.

the current leader of iran is a whack job. the iranian people are, and deserve, much better than this. a long tradition in this country has been to promote democratic principals around the globe. i'm not talking about warring on them to that end, but instead to live by example, to nudge, to promote a positive diplomatic effort, etc. while some think that this is meddling in other's business, i say that if you truly believe in democracy and democratic principals, how then can you not speak out against those that stand in its way? how?

24. Sam Ross
============

I agree, Sam. Democrats are famous for self-destructing and eating their own species.

We can agree to disagree without such demeaning. If some Democrats act and vote like republicans, they are still better to be Democrats, we still have more influence than if they crossed the aisle. Humiliating them and calling them names probably won't change their minds, but may change their party affiliation. Of course, that doesn't mean we have to support them when they return to the primaries either. Civility is always the better route.

As far as the impeachment goes, I would love to see it happen, but we also have to trust the judgement of our party leaders. They have the best prospective from their position.

In these harrowing times, people seem to be desperate for panaceas, but there are no overnight panaceas, not in the real world. They also forget that Iraq is not the only issue, and that everybody in the country is not a Democrat. We have to have that fact thrown into our faces every four years.

Obama First Democrat To Acknowledge Risk of More Stolen Elections

bad link rdorgan--goes to a picture of a back hoe....

40. mprov

the current leader of iran is a whack job.
===================

Maybe he is, but "bellicose" comes from the latin word for "war."

Bellicose = warlike

There was nothing he said in New York, or in recent memory that indicate he would like to go to war, is there?

But, if he is "bellicose," what's wrong with attacking Iran?
Maybe just a bad choice of words, but for a lawyer?

Dear Mark,

I just got a call from Vice President Al Gore. He told me that he needs to travel abroad tomorrow for an exciting and urgent mission that could result in a major breakthrough in the fight against global warming.

Unfortunately, this means that we must postpone our Thursday, October 11th event with him until Friday, November 9th. I wanted to be sure to email you tonight in case you were planning on attending.

While I am really disappointed that we won't see Al Gore until next month, I am thrilled that he is continuing to provide critical leadership to address one of the most pressing issues of our time. You should know that only the most urgent global warming mission has called him out of the country.

I look forward to seeing you on November 9th so we can all hear first-hand about Al Gore's latest exciting initiatives. We will be back in touch in the coming days with more details about the rescheduled event.

Thank you so much for your continued friendship and support!

Barbara Boxer

*was going to be:

Tickets for this Thursday night's rally in San Francisco with Senator Barbara Boxer, Vice President Al Gore, and the incredible musicians Bonnie Raitt and Jackson Browne are going fast. As one of Barbara's strongest grassroots supporters, we want you to be a part of it, too.

fred, seems to me that he's been waging soft war on several levels, and real war in iraq against both us and the kurds. google new it and you'll see. he does a rather fine job on his own population also, i might add. don't mistake a soft-spoken tyrant for a reasonable man.

i join j. carter in saying that it is a bad idea to militarily attack iran, but surely pressure to change their policy, if not their regime is in order.

i just wish some other country had the power to help us change our own regime...

...where are the french when you need them...oh, ya, they elected sarkozy, nevermind...

...and brown's trying to do the right thing and is getting whipped for the effort...merkle, no where to be seen...the japanese, well, they're quibbling over domestic scandals...no one left to mind the aisle...

...putin, he's trying to regain the russian empire...the chinese, they told myanmar to get democratic!!! who would've believed it...the indians are, also, too enbroiled in their own domestic mess compounded with the pakistan situation...

http://www.bradblog.com/

the current leader of iran america is a whack job. the iranian american people are, and deserve, much better than this. a long tradition in this country has been to promote democratic principals around the globe and at home. i'm not talking about warring on them  ourselves to that end, but instead to live by example, to nudge, to promote a positive diplomatic reform effort at home, etc. while some think that this is meddling in other's business, i say that if you truly believe in democracy and democratic principals, how then can you not speak out against those our leaders that stand in its way before meddling in the affairs of other countries? how?

In other words. America's have forfeited the right to lecture any nation about freedom, democracy, and human rights. Hopefully it's only temporary and we can someday lead by example again rather than impose what we ourselves have let be devalued and undermined. 

45.mprov

fred, seems to me that he's been waging soft war on several levels,
=================

I did some googling and did not find anything, mayber you can.

But this is not about Ahmedinejad. This is about the person who represents Iran, and Edwards calling him "warlike" It is just plain not true, not in what he has said, nor what the country he represents has said or done.

It is the U.S.A. (and Israel, with firing missiles at Syria) that is warlike.

IMO - Edwards goofed.

http://globegazette.com/articles/2007/10/10/latest_news/doc470d2b3c46e99041642484.txt

Posted: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:02 PM CDT

Motorcyclist charged in collision with Obama vehicleBy BOB LINK, bob.link@globegazette.comHAMPTON — The Iowa Falls man who was driving the motorcycle that collided Tuesday afternoon with an Obama campaign van was cited for passing too near to an intersection.

Timothy Scott Emerson, 41, was treated and released at Mercy Medical Center-North Iowa.

Emerson’s motorcycle was passing a van carrying Michelle Obama, the wife of Democratic presidential Candidate Barack Obama.

Michelle Obama was scheduled to make a campaign appearance at Maynes Grove Lodge at 946 Highway 65 South and was enroute with five other members of the campaign staff. No one in the van was injured.

According to the Franklin County Sheriff’s Department, Emerson was not wearing a helmet at the time of the collision.

...

Sam, appearances are not paramount. I thank Code Pink for what they do. They are not spectators.

Fred, I think you inspired me to make another donation to our opponent to the Bush Dem candidate of the day. I might mumble a nasty name for Lipinski while I'm doing it. OOps, he's a Dem. guess that's not proper. Since he's one of the pretend Dems, I'll just pretend it's proper then.

Iowa is still Jan. 14th just like we are supposed tob eaccording to the rules.

I sure hope no other renegade state tries to jump..

Conventions were more colorful when each state elected delegates that were allocated according to the various factions within their respective state, and a unity candidate was a favorite son who would wield a state's delegation.

Of course the whole primary is still that acccording to the rules, an  allocation of delegates reflecting the support for various candidates, not a beauty contest for President

The story out of Iowa should be who comes in fourth. They will have made a respectable showing against greater odds.

I sure hope the flag pin doesn't hurt Obama but Claire Shipman was talking about clothes for gawds sake this morning.

New Thread!!

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22536...