Yay Mark Pera.  Give him some love so he can beat Bushdog Lipinski.  C'mon.  Pony up, ya'll.  Please?

Oh, and you do all know that Deans are first, don't you?

There are some Democrats - Bush Democrats - who claim to represent us, but vote with Republicans on too many issues that matter.

Send a message to Congress: You're on notice. Regardless of political party, when Congress won't represent the will of the American people, then DFA members will fight to replace them with someone who will.

Needless to say, this is what I see as DFA's highest purpose. 

I’ve agree this is more attention than the subject merits, but you have to appreciate what we’re dealing with here When I said "You also called a former Dean supporter who is supporting Clinton a loser." Sitka wrote "Wrong again. I called that person a loser because he wants to support ‘a winner for a change.’"

Any person can read what was said, so please understand that I know everyone here, Sitka and everyone else, knows what was said. The addendum is just for emphasis. If I say you call a former Dean supporter who is supporting Clinton a loser, and you say wrong, I called that person a loser, for whatever sterling, practical reason you might add, you did call that person a loser.

Many warming unexpectedly to Clinton

Senator Hillary Clinton visited a hospital in New Hampshire. She's now focusing on connecting with individual voters. (Eliese Amendola/associated press/file)

By Sasha Issenberg, Globe Staff  |  October 9, 2007

CONCORD, N.H. - Don Schwartz, who describes himself as "a super-Deaniac progressive type," decided to back Hillary Clinton - whose centrist views, he concedes, do not necessarily match his own - for a simple reason. He wanted, finally, to be with a winner.

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Relative to money, organization and the feeling of “invisibility” the 2008 Democratic primaries are looking like the 2000 Republican primary….going through the motions.

Sitka wrote "Going in circles with the obtuse will do that sometimes."

That hasn't been my experience.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

7.

Don Schwartz, who describes himself as "a super-Deaniac progressive type," decided to back Hillary Clinton - whose centrist views, he concedes, do not necessarily match his own - for a simple reason. He wanted, finally, to be with a winner.

Ironically, that makes him a loser.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is there anyone (besides Tom) who doesn't get it? 

Sitka wrote "Going in circles with the obtuse will do that sometimes." That hasn't been my experience.

It only makes sense that you have more paitience with yourself than others possibly can. 

Sitka wrote "Is there anyone (besides Tom) who doesn't get it?"

Yes, everyone besides me who doesn't get it, please chime in and if you do get it, please post that here as well. 

Sitka wrote "It only makes sense that you have more paitience with yourself than others possibly can"

Strangely, despite the fact that you wrote that it is, that isn't the only possiblitly that makes sense. 

I seem to be the only person foolish enough to talk to you, Tom.

Sitka wrote "I seem to be the only person foolish enough to talk to you, Tom."

Likewise, but I've seen other people respond to both of us in the past.  

God Bless Al 

Our enduring support for a strong and unshakable partnership between the United States and Israel; our commitment, our shared commitment to one of the cornerstones of America's national security, a strong, secure, peaceful and prosperous state of Israel. This will never change. Never. When I think about that special relationship, I'm reminded of a story that I read recently about some of the earliest discussions between the United States and Israel. David Ben-Gurion, although he proudly proclaimed that he never rested, would frequently take time out from the difficult work of building the new state of Israel for some of his other eclectic pursuits, one of which was the practice of yoga. And this is not a joke, incidentally. This comes from an excellent biography of Ben-Gurion by Dan Kurzman and is said by all involved to be a true story.................

Forging the right kind of relationship with the Islamic world is a major challenge for the United States and Israel in the coming years. We know it will not be easy, but we will do it. And in the process, we will advance and strengthen peace in the Middle East and the security of Israel. Seeing the challenges of the future, and helping our country actively prepare for them, has always been the mission of AIPAC.

You are continuing that mission today, as you go up to Capitol Hill to make sure that Israel has all the power and support it needs to negotiate a so-called Peace of the Brave. But then your work -- our work -- will not be done. In truth, it will just be beginning. A true peace, with security, will be the work of generations. As the ancient rabbis taught in Pirke Avot, it is not your responsibility to finish the work, but you are not free to desist from it either.

This is our responsibility: to safeguard Israel and to do the work of building peace with security. It is a moral imperative that we share deeply. It is not just in my policy; it is in my heart, in my conscience and in my bones and in my soul. I believe in it. And with your help, I hope to do all that I can in this cause for many years to come. Thank you for your friendship. Good luck in your work today. God bless you. Thank you.

Al Gore 

Likewise..

You argue with yourself about nothing when there's no one else to do it with? 

I've had enough of you for a month at least. So long. 

Sitka wrote "I've had enough of you for a month at least. So long."

Arrividerci, baby.  This will cut down exponentially on my going in circles with the obtuse.

Could you provide the link that please? It's disjointed and doesn't make sense. 

3 dem candidates in compliance with Dean's enforcing of the rules:

http://www.theunionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Three+Democrats+quit+Michigan%27s+primary%2c+which+may+affect+NH%27s+choice+of+date&articleId=848d6aa7-c36f-47bb-b33e-449d7bc61a5b

By JOHN DISTASO
Senior Political Reporter
36 minutes ago

At least three Democratic presidential candidates are having their names removed from the Michigan primary ballot.

A spokesman for the Michigan Department of State told UnionLeader.com this afternoon receiving affidavits from the campaigns of John Edwards and Barack Obama and a letter from Bill Richardson’s campaign serving notice.

The spokesman, Kelly Chesney, said candidates have until 4 p.m. today to ask to have their names removed. Last month, shortly after Michigan lawmakers passed legislation moving their primary to Jan. 15, Michigan’s Democratic Party submitted the names of Edwards, Obama, Richardson, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich for the ballot.

It is unclear at the moment if Clinton will have her name removed.

...

Sitka likes to call people who disagree with him, names, like "Troll" "NeoDem" and "loser" etc.

Sitka deliberately integrates humor with vicious name-calling and intimately personal attacks and humiliation. He cannot be trusted.

Wow, the Right Wingers are showing how scared they are of Al. They have been out in full force spreading their propaganda.

Does this mean they too believe that Al Gore may announce he's running after sometime soon after this Friday?

Time for a COOL change,
Gore
2008

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
1:07 pm

Reply to this

As nearly always, Sitka is correct on this.

This is an unfortunate flaw in Sitka. I will not use it as a reason to attack him, though.

Tom Bearse
Tue, 10/09/07
1:24 pm

Reply to this

Thank you, Tom. The rest of you - please heed Tom's suggestion.

For any lurkers from the ABQ area.....

Here'san event that you won't want to miss! Mary Njoroge of Kenya is coming to Albuquerque. She oversaw the vast expansion of Kenyan primary-school enrollment that occurred when school fees were eliminated in Kenyaone million new students virtually overnight! This kind of expansion will have to be replicated in many other countries in order to fulfill Millennium Development Goal Number 2, universal primary education. RESULTS is bringing her to Albuquerque to highlight the Education for All campaign, which would help fund the transition to free primary education in developing countries, and which is one of RESULTS' major global campaigns this year. Education is vital to poverty elimination, economic development, public health, women's equality, child survival, HIV/AIDS prevention, and more.After you hear what she's accomplished you can find out how you can help make this happen in other countries!

She's a powerful speaker with impressive credentials. See attached bio.

Mary will be speaking at UNM on Thursday November 1 in the University of New Mexico Student Union Building, 7:00 p.m, Fiesta A & B. Stay tuned for details, mark your calendars and please invite others to attend.

Thanks!

Heidi Brooks
RESULTS Albuquerque Global Group Leader
884-4721 ext. 15


bbl

Mich. Dems: Primary or caucus?

The bill passed 21-17, with all Republicans voting for it and all Democrats voting against....

A number of prominent Michigan Democratic political leaders, including Gov. Jennifer Granholm, favor holding a closed presidential primary with the Republicans. State GOP Chairman Saul Anuzis has agreed on a Jan. 15 presidential primary if Democrats can agree to hold one.

But not all Michigan Democrats favor a primary. Backers of former North Carolina senator John Edwards want to hold a caucus because they think that will increase the influence of union members who back him......

Democratic leaders who support a primary were drafting their own letter saying the cost of a primary was worth it because voter turnout would be so much higher.

More than 1 million people voted in Michigan's 1992 presidential primaries, compared to about 160,000 who voted in the Democratic presidential caucuses in 2004....... 

(Caucuses suck because they are manipulative and exclusionary.) 

 If Sitka does not like the facts ......."It's disjointed and doesn't make sense". 

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/Gore.html

 . 

16.

Add Biden to the list:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071009/ap_po/michigan_primary_6

4 Democrats out of Michigan primary

By KATHY BARKS HOFFMAN, Associated Press Writer

12 minutes ago

...

Why don't you share your own flaws with us? 

Yes, let's send a message to Bush Dog Dems that we won't support them unless they stand up to the right-wing and vote for a progressive future.

That means targeting some Districts and showing that we aren't just PAPER TIGERS. Don't be a paper tiger on the blog. Support the effort to identify Bush Dogs and run against them.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1073

(Caucuses suck because they are manipulative and exclusionary.)

and as Howard said on PBS in Vermont many years ago, are controlled by the party extremist and pull the party to far to the extremes from the middle

It is unclear at the moment if Clinton will have her name removed.

********************************************

Out of respect for the rules which the national DNC agreed to, she should. I won't comment on whether I believe she will or not.

Also, received a letter from the DNC, which I'm glad to say actually asked me which Presidential candidate I favor. The only improvement I would have suggested would be to allow respondents to rank their choices from favorite to least favorite.

For the benefit of my friends here, I will do so :

1. Dennis Kucinich

2. Barack Obama

3. John Edwards

4. Chris Dodd

5. Mike Gravel

6. Ron Paul (yes, I know he's a Libertarian Republican).

7. Bill Richardson

8. Hillary Clinton

9. Joe Biden

And, as always, it is so very good to be here among friends.

20.

David A. Stevenson

This is an unfortunate flaw in Sitka. I will not use it as a reason to attack him, though.

================
I did not see it as an attack. My post was simply a cold clear observation of his behavior. As a political operative, he could even take it as a complement since he does it so well, with humor, people seldom see how slanderous, vicious and humiliating it really is.

If anyone disagrees let her/him speak now.

 Sitka, since you will think this exact quote is "disjointed", here is the link

Four years ago, Howard Dean denounced the Iowa caucuses as ''dominated by special interests,'' saying on a Canadian television show that they ''don't represent the centrist tendencies of the American people, they represent the extremes.''

29. FRED from OR Tue, 10/09/07 2:01 pm Blah, blah, blah, blah, who cares? Quit polluting the blog commons, both of you!

Thanks for providing the link (after being prodded.)

The reason it was disjointed was because of your editing. That's why you should always include a link.

I put my stock in Gore's opposition to invading Iraq in 2002 when it was fashionable to support it. And while I criticize many of Israel's policies and action, holding up a vague sentence about AIPAC doesn't bring him down in my book.

24. * rdorgan

Add Biden to the list
==============

Biden has said that if he is not a front-runner after Iowa, he will drop out. For the most part, he ran, as I supported him, to have a forum for support of Iraqi Federalization being implemented by the Iraq Central government and Parliament.

That climaxed with the success of the Resolution, I think he can drop out gracefully, with a feeling of having accomplished his fundamental purpose in running.

 
David A. Stevenson
Tue, 10/09/07
2:03 pm

My thoughts 

1.      Bill Richardson

2.      Barack Obama

3.      Hillary Clinton

4.      Joe Biden

5.      Chris Dodd

6.      Rest not worth the trouble

VP

1.      Mark Warner

2.      Evan Bayh

I am not the one who runs "do not feed the troll" cartoons every time I say something he doesn't like.

You've done your share of polluting too. And it only makes it worse when everyone chimes in. So heed your own advice and don't care.

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
2:07 pm

It was not vague, but an overly friendly speech at an AIPAC event.  

Fondly,

Scoop 

I think someone has their facts wrong on this one.   According to the Congressional Quarterly,  Congressman Dan Lipinski voted with his Party 91% of the time so far this year.  

The votes that moved his percentage down were most likely the pro-life votes.  Attacking him as a Bush supporter may be a good sound bite, but not a winning strategy for Democrats.  We should play fair in primary's and not accuse loyal Democrats of being Republicans simply because of their pro-life position.   We are, after all, one family and do not want the seat to go Republican.

30. David A. Stevenson
====================

With the variety of preferences, there could still be some surprizes in this race among the undecided, and candidates dropping out.

I only put up the troll cartoons when FRoler makes insulting remarks. When he's civil I leave him alone or respond indirectly, but on topic.

People complained about me lowering myself to his level and that is my compliance to it. 

According to the Congressional Quarterly,  Congressman Dan Lipinski voted with his Party 91% of the time so far this year.

That's pretty damning. 

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
2:07 pm

- - - - - --

It is safer to judge a man/women based on what they do when they are in power and/or running for office and raising money.  What one does from the peanut gallery (Gore in 2002) when they have no authority and risk is a little meaningless.

sort of like a baseball player who has a great batting average when the game is out of reach.....remeber the 1970 Baseball Cardinals.... 

It was not vague, but an overly friendly speech at an AIPAC event.

His praise of AIPAC was vague in its particulars. But AIPAC isn't really even an issue with me. You may have noticed that I never comment on it.

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
1:55 pm

Reply to this

1. Although I'm willing to listen to the point of view of just about eveyone - I think I'm correct on everything !

2. I work in an industry ( real estate sales ) which most of us ( including myself ) believe is highly corporatist and works contrary to almost everything which progressives and liberals believe in.

I could go on and on - how's that for a start, Sitka ?

To paraphrase Frank Zappa, " Is this the beginning of lumpy gravy and true confessions ?"

37.

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
2:10 pm

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Quit polluting the blog commons.

What one does from the peanut gallery (Gore in 2002)

Being the only national leader to stand on a podium before the world and denounce Bush's intent to invade Iraq was hardly "peanut gallery." The safe thing to do would have been to say nothing and denounce or support it later -- or support it and then flip when it went sour like many Dems did.

Just passing by ... it's been a busy day.

********
Condi's new rules are apparently not worth the paper that they were printed on. It's amazing that these trigger-happy bozos didn't also mow down the children.

Out. Now.

===============
Security guards kill two women in Baghdad
Tue Oct 9, 2007 1:12pm EDT
By Mariam Karouny and Haider Salahuddin

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Private security guards escorting a convoy of four vehicles through central Baghdad shot dead two women in a car on Tuesday, the Iraqi government and police said.

A diplomatic source told Reuters it was understood that U.S. private security firm Blackwater was not involved.

"There has been an incident, an attack on civilians. Two Iraqi women were killed and an investigation is going on to find which security company it was," government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said.

[...]
http://www.reuters.com/articlePrint?arti...

To paraphrase Frank Zappa, " Is this the beginning of lumpy gravy and true confessions ?"

Only if you want to vaguely reference the flaws of others. 

Heal yourself, doctor. 

David A. Stevenson
Tue, 10/09/07
2:21 pm

Hello, David. There are more and more people who are trying to create a progressive real estate market. I know you're one of them. Keep pluggin' away.

David A. Stevenson
Tue, 10/09/07
2:21 pm

You need to open up the MLS like the changes in the brokersage industry.  Why have financial brokerage commisions become a tiny fraction of the old days when the 6% commission is protected in a lobby influenced monopoly?

Aw ... goodbye to one who gave a lot of pleasure to many. What a ripe old age for this one.

=====================
Racing Great John Henry Dead at 32
By JEFFREY McMURRAY – 10 hours ago

LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) — John Henry wasn't the friendliest horse — far from it. However, his ability to turn a humble pedigree into the resume of a champion made him a prime attraction at the Kentucky Horse Park, where he spent his final 22 years.

"We would always bring kids to John Henry's paddock and say, 'Here is a great champion,'" said John Nicholson, the park's executive director.

Grumpy yet beloved, the thoroughbred great died Monday after 32 years of defying odds — both in racing success and longevity.

The two-time Horse of the Year, who earned more than $6.5 million before retiring as a gelding to the park where he became an icon, was euthanized Monday night in his paddock there.

He survived several illnesses over the years but never recovered from a recent bout with dehydration, in which he experienced kidney failure that forced him to receive intravenous fluids. The horse was rapidly losing weight.

"John's always been known for his biting and kicking," said Cathy Roby, barn manager at the horse park's Hall of Champions where he was stabled. "He had gotten to the point where he really wasn't trying, where he just wasn't John anymore. He was just tired and he was ready to go."

Mike Beyer, the veterinarian who tended to John Henry until the end, said euthanasia was the only choice.

"We didn't want to get to the point where he didn't have dignity," Beyer said.

[...]
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jccMg...

Well, the interesting thing is that Masri has exhausted his legal remedies in the US.

The SC may not realize what a legal morass it has just opened putzCo up to.

More fools they.

====================
US supreme court refuses to hear German man's rendition case
Staff and agencies
Tuesday October 9, 2007
Guardian Unlimited

A German man who claims he was abducted and tortured by the CIA was today told by the US supreme court it would not hear his case.

The decision effectively endorses White House arguments that allowing Khaled el-Masri to proceed with his case would compromise state secrets.

The Lebanese-born German was traveling to Macedonia on New Year's Eve 2003 when border guards mistakenly identified him as an associate of the September 11 hijackers, Khalid al Masri. He was handed over to CIA agents who stripped, beat, shackled, diapered, drugged and chained him to the floor of a plane for a flight to Afghanistan, where he was held for five months.

The US government has neither confirmed nor denied Mr el-Masri's account. But the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, has said that US officials acknowledged his detention was a mistake.

In a 2005 interview with the Guardian he told how the prison, though technically Afghan, was run from behind the scenes by the US. On release he was flown back to Europe and dumped in an unknown country which turned out to be Albania.

His lawsuit sought damages of at least $75,000 (£37,500) for kidnapping.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33092...

Sitka, 44 posts from you or referencing you, mostly in back and forth bickering. That is polluting the blog commons bigtime.
Fred adds his toxicity to it.

41.Sitka

I only put up the troll cartoons when FRoler
==================

Only a person with a severe personality disorder would consistently name-call by combining my blog name with another former blogger's name. Sicko Sitka.

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
2:20 pm

The point is when Gore was a powerful Senator and running for President (is raising money) he was::

- Very Pro Israel

- For a Democrat, pretty hawkish ......(see Gulf War I and comments on Iraq prior to winning losing the 2000 election

- Standing with the DLC

51.

Sorry to interject but ...

Mnemonics can have double meanings.

MLS

Can refer to real estate term Multiple Listing Services or can refer to soccer term Major League Soccer.

Bye, time for work........Sitka and Fred do you guys work?

As are you by keeping the subject alive.

Every day. 

Interestingly, my visitors of last week from my little home town in MT were among the few Americans who have actually visited Burma. They had a unique experience visiting there around ten years ago.

It was especially interesting to hear their tales in light of recent events there.

Good for Aung San Suu Kyi ... would any contemporary US politician be half so courageous? Al Gore or Jimmy Carter perhaps.

======================
Aung San Suu Kyi rejects talks with Burma junta
Matthew Weaver and agencies
Tuesday October 9, 2007
Guardian Unlimited

The prospect of a meeting between Burma's detained opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi and the military ruler faded today, after she refused to accept preconditions for the talks set by the junta.

Last week Burma's reclusive military leader, General Than Shwe, agreed to meet Aung San Suu Kyi but only if she renounced her confrontational stance against the regime and renounced calls for sanctions on Burma.

In a statement today issued by her party, the National League for Democracy, Aung San Suu Kyi rejected the deal.

She said: "The success of a dialogue is based on sincerity and the spirit of give and take. The will for achieving success is also crucial and there should not be any preconditions."

The statement, which follows similar announcements by party figures, came after the junta said it hoped to achieve "smooth relations" with Aung San Suu Kyi, just a day after suggesting that her release from house arrest was unlikely anytime soon.

Yesterday the regime appointed the deputy labour minister, Aung Kyi, as "manager for relations" with opposition leaders.

Gen Than Shwe's offer of a meeting followed a four-day visit from the UN envoy, Ibrahim Gambari, who had separate meetings with Aung San Suu Kyi and the general. Mr Gambari was sent to express the UN's disgust at the brutal crackdown of pro-democracy protests.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33091...

57. Indy Steve

==============
If it is easy to be critical from the sidelines, but if Sitka referred to you as "Sleazy Steve" or something like that, would you be so demure? If he ran a troll cartoon every time you said something? who's the polluter?

I ignore 3 out of 4 of such subtle attacks.

Kay Furgus
Tue, 10/09/07
2:12 pm

It's always interesting who climbs out of the woodwork when the heat gets close to their interests.
She happens to be correct tho.
DFA left sooooo many brave liberal/progressive candidates, opposing rabidly conservative rethuglicans, dangling in the wind in the last congressional race. If the DNC or DFA had even given it a half-hearted attempt they may not need to disrupt local primaries.

This race must be close, so as to be supporting 'a winner', or involves one of those who took the yacht dinner event while the rest of us protested Bush's war in D.C.

... very sadly

As I pointed out, I don't run a troll cartoon every time FRoler says something. Just when it contains one of his putdowns which he uses to hide meritless opinions and to incite vindictive argument.

I have ignored many an insult from him, but will not ignore all. 

59.S. Jackson

Bye, time for work........Sitka and Fred do you guys work?
==============

Wish I could. I do what I can.
I do child care and my disabilities make me unemployable. Staying on the computer usually keeps me away from pain... I don't like to talk about my disabilities, because we have el creepos like you-know-who that twist it around and propagate it as something it is not - both both the essence of it and the explanation of it - how low can you go?

With *friends* like putzCo, we don't even need enemies. But we do, unfortunately, also have enemies.

Blowing state secrets to out Valeria Plame wasn't enough for them. Now they have probably been responsible for even more deaths ... and for much less knowledge.

===================
Leak Severed a Link to Al-Qaeda's Secrets
Firm Says Administration's Handling of Video Ruined Its Spying Efforts
By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 9, 2007; 2:42 PM

A small private intelligence company that monitors Islamic terrorist groups obtained a new Osama bin Laden video ahead of its official release last month, and around 10 a.m. on Sept. 7, it notified the Bush administration of its secret acquisition. It gave two senior officials access on the condition that the officials not reveal they had it until the al-Qaeda release.

Within 20 minutes, a range of intelligence agencies had begun downloading it from the company's Web site. By midafternoon that day, the video and a transcript of its audio track had been leaked from within the Bush administration to cable television news and broadcast worldwide.

The founder of the company, the SITE Intelligence Group, says this premature disclosure tipped al-Qaeda to a security breach and destroyed a years-long surveillance operation that the company has used to intercept and pass along secret messages, videos and advance warnings of suicide bombings from the terrorist group's communications network.

"Techniques that took years to develop are now ineffective and worthless," said Rita Katz, the firm's 44-year-old founder, who has garnered wide attention by publicizing statements and videos from extremist chat rooms and Web sites, while attracting controversy over the secrecy of SITE's methodology. Her firm provides intelligence about terrorist groups to a wide range of paying clients, including private firms and military and intelligence agencies from the United States and several other countries.

The precise source of the leak remains unknown. Government officials declined to be interviewed about the circumstances on the record, but they did not challenge Katz's version of events. They also said the incident had no effect on U.S. intelligence-gathering efforts and did not diminish the government's ability to anticipate attacks.

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

not "you" - how low can "one" go?

65.Sitka

As I pointed out, I don't run a troll cartoon every time FRoler says something.

================
Most of the time you run a cartoon or use the "FrOler" innuendo, what I've posted has nothing to do with you.

Dan Froomkin's DC tour d'horizon ... tortured putz.

================
Bush's Feeble Torture Dodge
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Tuesday, October 9, 2007; 2:10 PM

President Bush's attempt on Friday to bat down the renewed furor over his secretive and brutal interrogation policies was profoundly empty of meaning -- and utterly ineffective.

Bush once again denied that his administration has engaged in torture, even as more evidence emerged that he continues to sanction behavior that most people would call just that. He wrapped himself in the flag and mobilized the rhetorical straw men, but offered not one new reason why anyone should believe him.

It's worth parsing his words carefully. Here's the transcript of his remarks, inserted into what was originally supposed to be a briefing solely about the economy.

Bush: "There's been a lot of talk in the newspapers and on TV about a program that I put in motion to detain and question terrorists and extremists. I have put this program in place for a reason, and that is to better protect the American people. And when we find somebody who may have information regarding an -- a potential attack on America, you bet we're going to detain them, and you bet we're going to question them -- because the American people expect us to find out information -- actionable intelligence so we can help protect them. That's our job."

Nobody, of course, is suggesting that the government shouldn't detain or interrogate legitimate terrorist suspects; the question is whether or not it should torture them -- an issue Bush then dealt with cursorily.

"Secondly, this government does not torture people. You know, we stick to U.S. law and our international obligations."

By now, Bush's insistence that "we don't torture" has become a perverse tautology: It doesn't mean that we don't torture; it just means that if we do it, he doesn't call it torture. (See Jon Stewart and John Oliver, quoted below.) And was Bush asserting some sort of hairsplitting distinction between obligations and laws?

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

The troll is in a gluttonous mood today, so I'm cutting off the food.

BBL. 

Some interesting health news ...

=================
Up to 10,000 strokes 'could be preventable'
By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor
Published: 09 October 2007

Up to 10,000 major strokes a year could be prevented if the early warning signs in susceptible individuals were assessed and treated rapidly, doctors say today.

Two research groups in France and Britain have found that early treatment of people who suffer a minor stroke, also known as a transient ischaemic attack (TIA), can cut the risk of a major stroke by 80 per cent.

The treatment is cheap and simple – often a daily dose of aspirin will be enough – but the speed with which it is administered is the key to its success.
[...]
http://news.independent.co.uk/health/art...

65.Sitka

I have ignored many an insult from him, but will not ignore all.
===============

You can respond in discussion, without your knee-jerk pollution. As we speak, you still use the name-twisting thing. You truly are Sicka.

16., 24., 30., 33. 

Clinton and Michigan

(a case of have your cake [ok, won't campaign there] and eat it too [but won't take my name off the ballot] ?):

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/09/403850.aspx

CLINTON WILL NOT PULL NAME OFF MI BALLOT

...

From NBC’s Domenico Montanaro

The Atlantic’s Mark Ambinder reports Clinton will not take her name off the Michigan ballot. "We will honor the pledge and not campaign or spend money in any state that is not in compliance with the DNC calendar,” said Clinton Communications Director Howard Wolfson, “but it is not necessary to take the steps necessary to remove Senator Clinton's name from the ballot."

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/clinton_wont_pull_out_of_michi.php

09 Oct 2007 02:33 pm

Sen. Hillary Clinton's name is staying on the Michigan Democratic primary ballot.

A campaign aide said this afternoon that Clinton will not follow four of her rivals by dropping out of the Michigan contest.

Kucinich/Feingold '08!!

... tho i do not advocate DFA to take his side in the primary.

Interesting, if horrific, irony.

Alienation is one root cause of terrorism.

That's all for now ... back tomorrow, perhaps.

=======================
Israel's nightmare: Homegrown neo-Nazis in the Holy Land
Swastikas daubed on the walls of synagogues. 'Heil Hitler' salutes. People beaten in the streets because they are Jewish. Where could this be? Germany? Eastern Europe? Try Israel. Neo-Nazism has taken root in the very nation forged from the ashes of the Holocaust. Eric Silver reports
Published: 09 October 2007

Rivka Zagaron, a 75-year-old Holocaust survivor, left her home in the Israeli port city of Haifa one September morning for her daily stroll along the beach. As she walked, two young men accosted her and shouted: "Heil Hitler!" One of them kicked her, the other cursed her. When she managed to get away, she saw them beating a street sweeper. "I never thought," she said afterwards, "that in our country I would hear the words 'Heil Hitler'."

The attack took place a week after the arrest of eight neo-Nazis in the Tel Aviv satellite town of Petah Tikva, an incident that stunned Israel. Like the old lady, the people of this country had thought that the Jewish state, founded on the ashes of Auschwitz, was immune to the neo-Nazi virus. But the epidemic seems to be spreading, raising serious questions about Israel's failure to adjust to the multicultural society of Jews and non-Jews it has become.

[...]
Members of the cell, aged 16 to 21, are Russian immigrants. One is Jewish, the rest were admitted to Israel under the Law of Return, which grants automatic citizenship to anyone with at least one Jewish grandparent – the same criterion adopted by the Third Reich for sending Jews to the gas chambers. In the former Soviet Union, their families were defined on their identity cards as "ethnic Russians". In Israel, they are outsiders, frustrated and angry. Neo-Nazism is a way to hit back where they know it hurts.

[...]
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/midd...

76. JudyforDean

Israel's nightmare: Homegrown neo-Nazis in the Holy Land
Swastikas daubed on the walls of synagogues. 'Heil Hitler' salutes.

===================

Interesting what goes around comes around.  Maybe if the right wing did not invoke Hitler, Nazis, and the holocaust so much for vain politics, this would not happen.

didn't mean to bold everything - rich text goofed again

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/clinton_ditches_baby_bonds_shi.html

Clinton ditches baby bonds, shifts to retiree 401(k)s

by Frank James

Reporters on the trail with Sen. Hillary Clinton are reporting that she has dropped her “baby bond” idea, the notion that the federal government would give each baby at birth $5,000 to be used later for college or to help purchase a first home.

Clinton, the front runner in national and many state polls among Democrats seeking the presidential nomination, caught a lot of flak from former Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor and others for the idea, which her campaign is saying was only a concept, not a policy position.

As AP reports today:

This development led to one of those I-wish-I-had-said-that quips from the campaign of John Edwards' campaign. According to AP:

David A. Stevenson
Tue, 10/09/07
2:21 pm

You need to open up the MLS like the changes in the brokersage industry.  Why have financial brokerage commisions become a tiny fraction of the old days when the 6% commission is protected in a lobby influenced monopoly?

*******************************************************

In my state, 6% commissions are rare. The norm is 5%, and that is not much more than the amount necessary for real estate firms to break even. Evidence of this is that discount brokerage firms like Foxtons don't remain competitive for long. It is clearly printed - by statute - on listing agreements - that commissions are negotiable and not fixed.

A more appropriate criticism / observation relates to how real estate firms lure in new realtors with the bait of "Make big money !" In Connecticut it costs around $4,000. just to be active as a realtor - between the licensing fees, MLS fees, errors and omissions insurance and minimal self-promotion.

70.Sitka

The troll is in a gluttonous mood today, so I'm cutting off the food.

===============
Sick. Obsessive incorrigible behavior.

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/clinton_ditches_baby_bonds_shi.html

Clinton ditches baby bonds, shifts to retiree 401(k)s

by Frank James

Reporters on the trail with Sen. Hillary Clinton are reporting that she has dropped her “baby bond” idea, the notion that the federal government would give each baby at birth $5,000 to be used later for college or to help purchase a first home.

******************************************************

Clinton would be tagged with this idea during a Presidential campaign anyway. She should have stood behind it.

Perhaps other Democratic candidates should adopt the noble concept - and then see if she gravitates back to it.

Kucinich/Feingold '08!!

... tho i do not advocate DFA to take his side in the primary.

*****************************************************************

Hi Deaniac. I'm proud to support the active candidate who best reflects my core values.

Go Dennis !

22. S. Jackson

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...
=================

Great post - dispels the "messiah" craze currently surrounding Al Gore.

In 2000, as a candidate, he talks complimentary to the enemies of peace leading Israel, those who (after Rabin was killed) dismantled the good work for enduring peace that Itzak Rabin constucted - .

(I hope I don't incur the wrath of Gorinians.)

David A. Stevenson
Tue, 10/09/07
3:10 pm

There seems to be far to many realtors out there.  I would guess that the changed lending environment will weed out the amatures in the crowd.  I am sure it is different state by state but the market does not seem to be to efficent.  I have run into many brokers who do not understand the concept of fiduciary duty but are only focussed on the deal fee.  

As a buyer I have learned that I am better to let the selling brokerage firm collect a fee as the buy side agent on me versus offering a discount to the actual seller (since there is no buy side broker).  Interestingly is that in the case that the buyer does not have a broker the selling agent drools (for double commission) and puts your contract to the front of the line......of course this depends on state laws. 

To Sitka and Fred :

Could you boys take your spat outside, please !

Sitka : He smeared me first !

Fred : He smeared me first !

Etc., etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum.

83.

But I thought Hillary, emphasizing her experience and her leadership skills, would have had the tenacity to stand behind it herself.

Sounds like her internal pollsters came out afterwards to advise her to drop the idea.

Sounds like a flip-flop on her part IMO.

22. S. Jackson

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...

==================
In this speech, Al Gore specifically refers to military hardware strength as the sole redemption for Israel, and the central means of security for Israel.

This is identical to the philosophy of Jabotinsky, the father of the right wing in Israel, who in the 1930s coined the term "Iron Wall" - that military force and hardware is the only way with seizing land from the indigenous people, for the State of Israel - Israel's version of "manifest destiny"

well, I'm off for the day

(and besides Dean's tenacity, kudos to Biden, Edwards, Obama and Richardson for listening to Dean regarding Michigan; those 4 [out of 8 dem candidates] distinctly indicated as such by officially taking their names off the Michigan dem ballot today)

Stupid, stupid, stupid Bush Admin.

Firm says Administration's handling of video ruined its spying efforts.

    A small private intelligence company that monitors Islamic terrorist groups obtained a new Osama bin Laden video ahead of its official release last month, and around 10 a.m. on Sept. 7, it notified the Bush administration of its secret acquisition. It gave two senior officials access on the condition that the officials not reveal they had it until the al-Qaeda release.

    Within 20 minutes, a range of intelligence agencies had begun downloading it from the company's Web site. By midafternoon that day, the video and a transcript of its audio track had been leaked from within the Bush administration to cable television news and broadcast worldwide.

. . .

    By midafternoon, several television news networks reported obtaining copies of the transcript. A copy posted around 3 p.m. on Fox News's Web site referred to SITE and included page markers identical to those used by the group. "This confirms that the U.S. government was responsible for the leak of this document," Katz wrote in an e-mail to Leiter at 5 p.m.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/100907A.shtml

FRED from OR
Tue, 10/09/07
3:16 pm

For a thoughtful progressive  blog, I do not understand the messiah concept:

It started with Dean......moved to KKK Byrd......then to Wheeler Dealer Murtha ......and now to Gore.  These figures become god like with no ability to do wrong.  Even the National Review does not treat conservative favorites like this.  This lack of honest discussion makes the concept of progressive thought irelivent.    

88. David A. Stevenson

===============
If people like you would not just always say "you're both wrong" but rather when he instigates, tell him to "quit the $hit" maybe he would listen and things would improve.

I would welcome you to tell me if I instigate too (so long as your criticism is evenhandedly dispensed.)

57.  What's disappointing is that the story doesn't relate under what law he was challenging the U.S.  I would have been interested to know if it was under the Alien Tort Claims Act.

Perhaps they did it under the equal protection clause which seems to have been vitiated somewhat by the interpretation that Constitution only protects Americans from government over-reaching. 

88. David A. Stevenson

=================
It seems nobody picks up those nasty, subtle innuendos and jabs, but me?

88.

David,

It's what this blog has regressed to: kiddie arguments and fist fights and Repubs pretending to be observant and helpful Dems.

It's a real circus these days if you want to read along in your spare time.

84.

FRED from OR
Tue, 10/09/07
3:16 pm



Great post - dispels the "messiah" craze currently surrounding Al Gore.

________________

Only because you apparently want one.....unlike "other" candidates supporters here who lose cookies when you speak of them. Al Gore's many supporters don't typically OVER REACT and deal with realities.

I'm happy you and S Jackson look at Al Gore as a messiah, but you really shouldn't.

And what part of Al Gore's speach are we supposed to be freaking out on?

What part of his address in your view do you find bad?


Or are you really just in a mood to pick a fight with everyone?

91. S. Jackson

===============

Wow, you push a lot of buttons here. LOL. I think people can change and we should give credit when they do, let bygones be bygones and move forward, but the grass always does look greener on the other side of the fence....and it is always easier to be the "perfect person" when not seeking campaign funds.

Byrd, Dean, and Gore are great people, but I don't think we can judge their positions with the same yardstick as those who are running.

98. Linda*in*SFNM

What part of his address in your view do you find bad?
Or are you really just in a mood to pick a fight with everyone?

====================
A specious insinuation. Who's picking the fight with whom?

See post 89. for a sample of my points.

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 10/09/07
3:35 pm

I think the point is that if you are critical of Gore, then you are described as a Right Wing Troll no matter what your view or point is.  Honest discussions on the Politican Du Jour is not allowed.  Be it Murtha, Gore or Byrd (on their respective Days).  Honest discussion not allowed. 

76.  At the risk of being redundant, it is a mistake to think that what people have suffered they won't do to others.   In fact, the opposite is often the case.  People do to others what was done to them.  The abused abuse.  The recipients of kindness pass it forward.

The U.S. earned a lot of good will in the aftermath of the Second World War.  Much of that good will seems now to have been dissipated by what Europeans and Middle Easterners refer to as cowboy behavior--i.e. sitting up high on a horse and bullying people like so many cows. 

98. Linda*in*SFNM

===============
Also, please see post 96.

100.

S. Jackson

I think the point is that if you are critical of Gore, then you are described as a Right Wing Troll...Honest discussion not allowed.

=================
We haven't had a real troll on this blog for a while, I don't know if that is good or if the professional trolls don't see us as significant anymore, in which case, bad news.

At any rate, the ravenous self-appointed "troll police" with nothing to do, have resorted to cannablizing fellow Democrats with whom they have petty disagreements on one or two issues.

Same Old Party
    By Paul Krugman
    The New York Times

People claim to be shocked by Mr. Bush's general fiscal irresponsibility. But conservative intellectuals, by their own account, abandoned fiscal responsibility 30 years ago. Here's how Irving Kristol, then the editor of The Public Interest, explained his embrace of supply-side economics in the 1970s: He had a "rather cavalier attitude toward the budget deficit and other monetary or fiscal problems" because "the task, as I saw it, was to create a new majority, which evidently would mean a conservative majority, which came to mean, in turn, a Republican majority - so political effectiveness was the priority, not the accounting deficiencies of government."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/printer_100907E.shtml

Krugman for prez

S. Jackson, I don't think you have a truthful basis for that here, I don't know where else you deal with.

We have folks that claim to be admirers that like to propagate lies here. And they haven't been called that.

Keep in mind, when you post pieces of something and try to make a claim, you will be called out. i don't think anyone appreciates lies and distortions. That does not equate to "being critical of Gore".

Normally you don't have someone trying to make up a story or spreading lies from a supporter that equates to only being critical. LOL

Fred, you can post any numbers, I'm dealing with the reality of your comment that I posted of your accusations.

107. Linda*in*SFNM

Fred, you can post any numbers, I'm dealing with the reality of your comment that I posted of your accusations.

======================
The "reality" is that I love Al Gore and all he is doing for global warming and climate change. I just happen to think people tend to idealize things they cannot have. And we cannot have Al Gore.

107. Linda*in*SFNM

Fred, you can post any numbers, I'm dealing with the reality of your comment that I posted of your accusations.
========================

Linda, you asked me "What part of his address in your view do you find bad?"

So I pointed out my posts (89. and 96.) in response, without picking a fight.

OK FRED. Lets look at your CLAIM and Statement made....and the (where you get this) comparison made.

"In this speech, Al Gore specifically refers to military hardware strength as the sole redemption for Israel, and the central means of security for Israel.

This is identical to the philosophy of Jabotinsky, the father of the right wing in Israel, who in the 1930s coined the term "Iron Wall" - that military force and hardware is the only way with seizing land from the indigenous people, for the State of Israel - Israel's version of "manifest destiny""

These are the two sections from his speach he refers to security and military.

"At the same time, this new age clearly presents us with new opportunities for peace and for economic growth. We have to choose wisely. We need to engage the new security agenda with the same vigor and commitment and seriousness of purpose with which we continue to confront the old security agenda. That is, we need to pursue what I call forward engagement. It comes out of the military discussions where the strategic analysts find the value of engaging in a forward way early on, when the chances of success are greatest. It's an approach in which we address problems close to their source and before they become crises, and in which we have the forces and resources to deal with those threats quickly.
...
I will never, ever let people forget that the relationship between the United States and Israel rests on granite, on the rock of our common values, our common heritage and our common dedication to freedom. If from time to time we disagree, I will always work to make sure that we emerge even stronger, with a better understanding of each others' interests, so that we're always working to reinforce one another. I will never forget that Israel's security rests on Israel's superiority and arms. That is why, two years ago, the United States and Israel established a new strategic partnership ushering in an unprecedented level of military cooperation. I am absolutely committed to making sure that Israel's qualitative edge always remains, and always remains strong."

And all through, he talks about achieving PEACE, economy, freedom, etc, as can be seen in it's entirity here:
...something you try to claim opposite. So do tell me, where in his words do you find what you claimed in your above comment and accusation?

Ooops, entirity here:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...

105. Joan* In*Florida

Same Old Party
By Paul Krugman
The New York Times
====================

Once again Krugman tells it like it is, and proves to be the NYT's saving grace. It has long been known that the Neocon strategy since Reagan was to build debt with military and Republican pork, and then blame social programs to cut and pay for the debt.

What is different about the Dubyu version is that he made the debt so great, eliminating all social programs would still leave plenty of debt. What a mess.

110.

Linda*in*SFNM
===============

Most of your quoted part of this speech is fluff, as you might agree. The beef of this part is here:

"I will never forget that Israel's security rests on Israel's superiority and arms. That is why, two years ago, the United States and Israel established a new strategic partnership ushering in an unprecedented level of military cooperation. I am absolutely committed to making sure that Israel's qualitative edge always remains, and always remains strong."

Israel has an estimated 20 nuclear bombs. They had the best military equipment in ME already. Theoretically, if we stand behind them, they don't even need a military. Maybe a national guard, but not the capability they have. We would always be there with even better fire power.

The patronizing of people like Barak and Netanyahu, and their "Iron Wall" policies, is kissing up to militarism. These people fought against Rabin. They were and are opponents of a Palestinian State. While they give lip service to the "two State" solution, their supporters were calling Rabin a "Nazi" and "worse than Hitler" for actually proposing an agenda to remove settlers from the West Bank and implement the two-State olution, which unfortunately is nothing more than red herring to Israel's critics (waiting for the Palestinian State is waiting for Godot) with the right-wing saying "we're working on it."

Al Gore says nothing of diplomatic solutions and support for Palestinian self-determination here, as if he doesn't see the elephant in the living room. In short, it was a total kiss-up to the right wing military solution for security.

You're just being part of the problem yourself.

Avi Shlaim wrote in "The Iron Wall":

"Likud leaders, for their own political purposes, had assiduously cultivated the image of a small and vulnerable Jewish State surrounded by a sea of Arab hostiliy..." (p.507)

92.

Referring to my post re:

Firm says Administration's handling of video ruined its spying efforts, this just proves that the Bush Admin has no interest in capturing OBL or any Al Queda organization whatsoever. Without them they have no excuses for making their wars.

114. Sitka
==========

What is the problem, Sitka?

You can post what you want. But you should also edit  sensibly and provide a link.

And others can express or defend their opinions of Gore without it being accused of a "messiah complex." Especially the same with Dean.

Few if any point out Democrat deficiencies as much as me, but I realize that the character of those who don't agree shouldn't be impugned.

At the request of some bloggers, I will not respond to the person trying to start yet another squabble.

Fred,

You are absolutely correct. Krugman is the savior or the NYT and his views are comprehensive, enlightened and almost always right on spot.

What he reports here is what many of us have always known or at least suspected before he was ever selected as prez and in the making of the war. Nothing new for Repugs point of view.

What is amazing is that so many of their followers just don't seem to have a clue about the real purposes of what they do nor do they apparently want to have any.

To wish eternal war and poverty on your own children and country is unforgiveable, if only because of the reasons for it -- greed and political power.

Booya!!! Another great day. You have to love a Bull Market.

118. Sitka

Few if any point out Democrat deficiencies as much as me, but I realize that the character of those who don't agree shouldn't be impugned.
===============

that remains to be seen. Charity begins at home.

as for pointing out deficiencies, intelligent analysis is always welcome here, but slapping on labels and snide remarks is more your stock and trade.

You have to love a Bull Market.

Roulette wheels don't excite me either. 

What is amazing is that so many of their followers just don't seem to have a clue about the real purposes of what they do nor do they apparently want to have any.

Unfortunately, the same must be said for too many who follow DCDems even as they follow the GOP.

Ignoring the troll.

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
5:04 pm

I would agree, I do not trade.  The key is consistant asset allocation and let time be your friend and assume a modest rate of return and be pleasantly surprised with more.  The biggest mistake people make is getting greedy and buying at the top and panicing and selling at the bottom.      

Fred, OK, you have shown, you are reading something in to what is not there and ignoring the entire rest. You claim fluff on everything but what you want to read in to and quote which still does not say what you're trying to allude. to

The biggest mistake people make is getting greedy and buying at the top and panicing and selling at the bottom.   

That's why my investments are in a managed account.  I'm in for the long hauled and pay no attention to fluctuations.

So, gotta run out and mail some buttons. In between....did you know professionals can run my entire drip system underground IN MY NEIGHBORS YARD SO I CAN PAY TO WATER HIS YARD!?!....2 1/2 years it seems to have been this way.

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
5:13 pm

You are a smart man. 

professionals can run my entire drip system underground IN MY NEIGHBORS YARD SO I CAN PAY TO WATER HIS YARD!?!....2 1/2 years it seems to have been this way.

They can put people in jail for stealing cable. 

You are a smart man.

Actually, my wife -- and more actually, her mother -- are the smart ones.

GRAVEL LEADS, OBAMA AND EDWARDS FOLLOW
IN CRITICIZING CLINTON IRAN VOTE
It started with Democratic Presidential Candidate Mike Gravel criticizing Senator Hillary Clinton on live TV. Now, two other candidates are catching on. John Edwards and Barack Obama have both followed Gravel's lead, making statements that criticize Clinton's controversial vote on a measure which gives President George W. Bush the cover to attack Iran.

At the September 26 Democratic debate in Hanover, N.H., Gravel first raised the issue, calling the Kyl-Lieberman amendment (S. Amdt. 3017) "a fig leaf to let George Bush go to war with Iran." The Senator went on to say, "I'm ashamed of you, Hillary, for voting for it. You're not going to get another shot at this." You can watch an excerpt of that debate here.

Since then, Edwards and Obama have made similar statements.

While Obama told AP he sees "nothing wrong with identifying the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization," he admits that the vote "could potentially lead to military action in Iran." You can read more about that in today's Union Leader.

Obama was absent the day the vote was cast in the Senate. As a result, he could not vote on it.

Edwards, who calls his vote authorizing the Iraq War a "mistake," followed Gravel in congratulating Senators Chris Dodd and Joe Biden for voting against the resolution.

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
5:20 pm

Most people are emotional and not that smart.  The idea of private Social Security is insane.....exept to those collecting fees. 

127. Linda*in*SFNM
==================

Maybe being blunt is better.

Gore talks about nothing but Arms here.

He says nothing about the human rights abuses and the continuous humiliation of indigenous people in the West Bank with the imposition of immigrant settlers given a much greater privelege and human rights, with thousands of Arab/Palestinians being jailed without habeus corpus on suspicion, all of which is at the heart of Israeli insecurity, on account of its provocative nature.

The people who is talking to were against Rabin and his plan for an Palestinian-Israeli confederacy (the two-state solution.) Short of saying they were happy to see him die, they provoked the political forces that led to his death, and Rabin's death solved a lot of political problems for them. How Gore could kiss up to such right-wingers is dispicable, notwithstanding they were the leaders of the country. Bush is our leader, and they were no better then, than Bush is here now.

Basically he's patting the proverbial dog on the head for being a vicious aggressive creature.

Gore is no different here in this speech than any other right wing politician from the States, he's certainly no Jimmy Carter.

Yes, Sitka and his practices are smart!


bbl

OK, anyone else need buttons before I run out to the Post office........hurry, hurry, hurry!

John Edwards and Barack Obama have both followed Gravel's lead, making statements that criticize Clinton's controversial vote on a measure which gives President George W. Bush the cover to attack Iran.

Which is the greater hypocrisy? 

Obama was absent the day the vote was cast in the Senate. As a result, he could not vote on it.

or

Edwards joined the chorus of those threatening the Iranian government. "Iran threatens the security of Israel and the entire world," Edwards said, echoing a line peddled by many neoconservatives. "Let me be clear: Under no circumstances can Iran be allowed to have nuclear weapons."

A few moments later, he strongly hinted at the need for possible US military action. "To ensure that Iran never gets nuclear weapons, we need to keep ALL options on the table," Edwards said. "Let me reiterate – ALL options must remain on the table."

128. Linda*in*SFNM

Fred, OK, you have shown, you are reading something in to what is not there and ignoring the entire rest. You claim fluff on everything but what you want to read in
=====================

Speaking of "something in to what is not there" Why don't you tell where the substance is in the rest of your selection? the "fluff" as I call it.

Fred, you are incredible. I chose what I posted because it was the section YOU WERE REFERRING TO ABOUT THE MILITARY. If it were up to me, that isn't the best part of the speach to highlight. LOL

Unbelievable.

Since you're still here, thanks for offering the buttons, Linda, but I'll pass this time.

going, going, gone....out the door.

128. Linda*in*SFNM

Fred, OK, you have shown, you are reading something in to what is not there...

=====================
I beg to differ. There is plenty of militarism in this statement. If you don't see it, just imagine George W. Bush saying the same thing today.

Al Gore, May 23, 2000, Addressing AIPAC in Washington:

"I will never forget that Israel's security rests on Israel's superiority and arms. That is why, two years ago, the United States and Israel established a new strategic partnership ushering in an unprecedented level of military cooperation. I am absolutely committed to making sure that Israel's qualitative edge always remains, and always remains strong."

bye bye, kitchen is getting hot.

"I will never forget that Israel's security rests on Israel's superiority and arms. That is why, two years ago, the United States and Israel established a new strategic partnership ushering in an unprecedented level of military cooperation. I am absolutely committed to making sure that Israel's qualitative edge always remains, and always remains strong."

I have no problem with that per say. What I do have a problem with is not using US aid as a means of forcing Israel to make peace Syria and Palestine. Israel's obsession with territory acquired in war is inexcusable and encouraging it is a failure of US foreign policy.

123.

Joan* In*Florida
===============
Thanks. Hang in there, things are bound to improve.

145.Sitka

I have no problem with that per say.

===================
I have plenty of problems with that, because it is dangerously false. Israel has had such superiority of arms since 1947, and there is less peace in Israel and the region than ever.

Pax Americana is just not working for her.

More parts of that speech which is bad:

"In 1988 I took a strong stand against a previous administration's efforts to force Israel into concessions that would have, in my view, threatened its security. And in 1991, I vividly remember standing up against a group of administration foreign policy advisers who promoted the insulting concept of linkage, which tried to use loan guarantees as a stick to bully Israel. I stood with you, and together we defeated them and we stopped that effort."

In other words, Bush the elder was more even-handed with the I-P issue than Gore, who defeated those Bush's efforts, and was partial to the Israel right wing Likud, who took over, and became more militaristic, after Rabin was killed.

"...You know as well as I do that as long as Saddam Hussein stays in power there can be no comprehensive peace for the people of Israel or the people of the Middle East. We have made it clear that it is our policy to see Saddam Hussein gone."

-sound like someone you know, that starts with a B and sounds like "push"

Gore would have voted yes on Bush's Iraqi Resolution, no doubt about it.

What is interesting is that Yassir Arafat was actually glad to see George W. Bush win over Al Gore, because in his culture "the Apple never falls far from the tree."

He thought George Bush senior was more even-handed with the Palestinians and tough enough on the Israel right wing.

He was in for a surprize

Bush-I forced Shamir to the negotiating table (circa 1991, Madrid conference) by withholding $10 Billion in loan guarantee.

Shlaim wrote, "Bush himself felt he owed no debt to Israel or to American Jewry. He had been vice president in the most pro-Israeli history, yet he won only 5% of the Jewish vote in the 1988 presidential election."

(The Iron Wall, p.487)

.

Nation's healthcare crisis gets personal

I write a lot about healthcare reform. Now it's personal.

I was diagnosed this past week with diabetes. As of Friday, I was injecting myself with insulin, something I'll be doing four or five times a day, every day, for the rest of my life. Without the injections, I'll likely die.

ADVERTISEMENT
Scared? You're damn right I'm scared. What's going to happen to me? What's going to happen to my family? ...full article: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-la...

3818

149. Susan Rowe
================

Sorry to hear that Susan. Thanks for the courage and trust to tell us.

149.

Susan, I'm so sorry. I'm what they call "mildly diabetic" (like a little bit pregnant?), but so far I'm able to manage blood sugar with Metformin, a pill that kick-starts the body's own insulin.

well now sitka, you said you didn't see other means, such as US aid as a means towards peace, but:

Today, we meet for the first time in a new century, still striving to fill that prophetic vision that all of us have quoted often about beating the swords into plowshares and the spears into pruning hooks. And at this time, when the pace of peace again appears to be slow -- slow -- I want to talk about what we can do to achieve peace and security for Israel, for our own country, and ultimately throughout the world. In a speech three weeks ago in Boston, I laid out a vision for America's strength and role abroad. I am not going to recapitulate that speech here. But I want to briefly say that in its essence, I believe that we need to recognize that the classic security agenda, the question of war and peace between sovereign nations, is still with us during this new global age in which the destinies of billions of people around the globe are increasingly intertwined.

We need to recognize that this global age presents us with a new set of threats, such as rogue nations or terrorist groups acquiring, not only nuclear weapons, but possibly chemical and biological weapons; or as we have seen a taste of recently, merely acquiring the ability to disrupt our computer networks; threats like the continued degradation of our environment, which has the ability to threaten the long-term security of all humanity.

and then the other area you didn't like. I consider this a more even hand.

Now that principle is one that I have long believed in. It is a commitment to Israel that was not new for me in this administration. I stood against the efforts of the two previous administrations to pressure Israel to take stands against its own view of what was in Israel's best interests. When a friend's survival is potentially at stake, you don't pressure that friend to take steps that it believes are clearly contrary to what is in that friend's best interests. In 1988 I took a strong stand against a previous administration's efforts to force Israel into concessions that would have, in my view, threatened its security. And in 1991, I vividly remember standing up against a group of administration foreign policy advisers who promoted the insulting concept of linkage, which tried to use loan guarantees as a stick to bully Israel. I stood with you, and together we defeated them and we stopped that effort. ( I don't know, but I like the idea of working with and not resorting to threats, name calling and bullying) (Axis of Evil isn't a great method)

and

As we have seen again this past week, there are those who prefer violence to negotiation. I condemn this violence. I condemn this violence. And just as I supported Prime Minister Netanyahu's efforts, I now applaud Prime Minister Barak's resolve and his clear message that peace will be achieved at the bargaining table, not in streets torn by riot and violence; at the bargaining table. Incidentally, I believe we should all be proud of his courage, because he has shown as much bravery in negotiations as he has demonstrated in a lifetime of heroic service on the battlefield.

And the negotiations cannot be a one-way street. The Palestinians too must recognize that they will not get all that they want. It is the responsibility of Yasser Arafat and all of the Palestinian leadership -- a responsibility they acknowledge -- to prevent those who would resort to violence from disrupting the peace process at this extraordinarily difficult and delicate time. This is a test for them.


I think this is a pretty good speach, especially for it being during the General election...keep in mind May of 2000.

Now that we've discected his speech in to so many different parts. And I choose to print the before and afters so one can see the entire remark and intent.

Trying to make hay out of one speach is almost laughable, especially from May of 2000. I guess if this is the best they got, we're a OK.

It is a failure of virtually every Democratic politician to have fallen into the "Evil Hussein/Regime Change" trap. Even Dean did, unfortunately, and the Neocons expoited it.

But there is a huge distinction to be made between those who advocated and voted for Bush's invasion (or WMD goosechase, if you prefer) and those who didn't. 

The distinction to be made at this time is between those who are enabling the next disaster with Iran and those who aren't. And once again too many DCDems are on the NeoCon war wagon.

147. Fred wrote: Gore would have voted yes on Bush's Iraqi Resolution, no doubt about it.

You do like to post just old anything. Do you just pull things out of the air to make yourself feel better, to lie and falsely accuse someone of something that has no merit?



Al Gore was one of the first to come out against the war in Iraq, with all the reasons and possible effects and you know it.

I'm done with you.

Spread lies by yourself, I don't need to be a part.

See, you talk about not being able to have a conversation? YOU CANT, you resort to making false accusation.

153.

Linda*in*SFNM
=============

What do you think of 147 and 148?

Now that principle is one that I have long believed in. It is a commitment to Israel that was not new for me in this administration. I stood against the efforts of the two previous administrations to pressure Israel to take stands against its own view of what was in Israel's best interests. When a friend's survival is potentially at stake, you don't pressure that friend to take steps that it believes are clearly contrary to what is in that friend's best interests.

I can't agree with this, especially when giving Israel a blank check without strings has done so much harm to so many people along with the best interests of the US. 

156. Linda*in*SFNM

Al Gore was one of the first to come out against the war in Iraq, with all the reasons and possible effects and you know it.
====================

No doubt. and most of those Democrats who voted on the resolution were against "the war" - too bad you don't defend them like you defend Gore.

"Spread lies by yourself, I don't need to be a part."

Well, just when I make a well-documented indisputable fact, you call me a liar and leave. Bye bye, big-girl Linda (this is the part where she calls me a sexist.)

John, I'm sorry to hear of your sugar problems. I hope you can reverse it naturally. My brother in law did, but then he got over confident and started trashing on donuts and juice and now he has to take insulin shots.

Have you looked in to Stevia? Stevia actually is a natural plant that can be used as a sweetner, but it also shows to reverse diabetes. I'm sure in the more milder forms.

Most important is to read labels on premade foods.

I get shocked the more we progress, the more sugar that is added to foods. I remember when they didn't added sugar, or very little, to cereal.....but if you wanted it sweet, you actually ADDED sugar youSELF. -WHAT a CONCEPT, huh?

Things I used to get has had the sugar actually DOUBLE. One slice of bread now has easy 1-2 teaspoons of sugar....in ONE SLICE OF BREAD.

So we can really benefit by avoiding, being so much is added these days.

Good luck to you and anyone else having to deal with it. I think we all need to be aware.

"See, you talk about not being able to have a conversation? YOU CANT, you resort to making false accusation."

Kool off, Linda. Just my opinion, based on the evidence above.

151.

FRED from OR
Tue, 10/09/07
6:37 pm


Fred,

This op-ed by David Lazarus. He is a Business News : Consumer Confidential Columnist for the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-colum...


(video) Great L.A. Healthcare Rally on August 11, 2007: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5VuKMk0ZxHI

Al Gore was one of the first to come out against the war in Iraq, with all the reasons and possible effects and you know it.

As I pointed out to S. Jackson earlier...... 

Being the only national leader to stand on a podium before the world and denounce Bush's intent to invade Iraq was hardly "peanut gallery." The safe thing to do would have been to say nothing and denounce or support it later -- or support it and then flip when it went sour like many Dems did.

Al Gore - September 23, 2002

IRAQ AND THE WAR ON TERRORISM

Now we have seen the assertion of a brand new doctrine called "preemption," based on the idea that in the era of proliferating weapons of mass destruction, and against the background of a sophisticated terrorist threat, the United States cannot wait for proof of a fully established mortal threat, but should rather act at any point to cut that short. The problem with preemption is that in the first instance it is not needed in order to give the United States the means to act in our own defense, either against terrorism in general or against Iraq in particular. But that is a relatively minor issue compared to the longer-term consequences that I think can be foreseen for this doctrine. To begin with, the doctrine is presented in open-ended terms, which means that if Iraq is the first point of application, it is not necessarily the last. In fact, the very logic of the concept suggests a string of military engagements against a succession of sovereign states: Syria, Libya, North Korea, Iran - none of them very popular in the United States, of course - but the implication is that wherever the combination exists of an interest in weapons of mass destruction together with an ongoing role as host to or participant in terrorist operations, the doctrine will apply. It also means that if the Congress approves the Iraq resolution just proposed by the administration, it would be simultaneously creating the precedent for preemptive action anywhere, anytime this or any future president as a single individual, albeit head of state, decides that it is time.

156. Sitka

I can't agree with this, especially when giving Israel a blank check
===============

"blank check" is a good way to put it. H.W. Bush held their feet to the fire, but Gore was the acquiescent schmoozer.

The brutal fact is that H.W. Bush and George Schultz, etc. and everybody else before that, were tougher on the right wingers in Israel than the Democrats were in the 1990's, .

In fact if the 1967 war were held when Gore made that speech, IMO Israel would still be occupying the Sinai penninsula.

Drafting Gore In New Jersey

By - Shane D'Aprile
(October 9, 2007)


Bertin Lefkovic isn't happy with his presidential choices and he doesn't think he is alone.

"Going into the 2008 season, no one in the Democratic poll excited me," said the former Howard Dean New Jersey field director. "Slowly but surely I realized the only person with a chance to really change the electoral calculus is Al Gore."

Lefkovic thinks the former vice president turned global warming crusader can pull a Richard Nixon and win the White House eight years after his first try, so he is helping lead a grassroots movement in New Jersey to elect uncommitted delegates to the Democratic National Convention.

"If we could get anywhere from 50 to 100 Gore delegates from around the country to the convention, they could be very influential," he said. "I think it's possible that no candidate arrives at the convention with enough delegates to win the nomination."

It is a scenario that seems far fetched, but Lefkovic thinks the Democratic primary will end up far closer than the current polls suggest, and he wants a seat at a brokered convention if it happens.

After working on former Gov. Jim Florio's U.S. Senate campaign in 2000, Lefkovic said he temporarily left politics, disgusted with the outcome of the 2000 presidential election. After working as a grass-roots organizer for Howard Dean in 2004, Lefkovic could not find a Democratic candidate to his liking in 2008, which is why he decided to join the Draft Gore movement initiated by state Assemblyman Reed Gusciora, D-Trenton.

161.

Susan Rowe
==============
LOL - I guess I sounded really funny - glad for you.

Have you looked in to Stevia? Stevia actually is a natural plant that can be used as a sweetner

The body can't tell one sweetener from another. The only answer is to give them up as much as necessary.

I went to the grocery story and looked at all of the "artificial" sweetners. The main ingredient in most is glucose, which is --- sugar. And they all contain one type or another. The sad fact is, only sugar in one form or another is sweet. 

BS. 

FROM GORE'S SPEECH

"In 1988 I took a strong stand against a previous administration's efforts to force Israel into concessions that would have, in my view, threatened its security. And in 1991, I vividly remember standing up against a group of administration foreign policy advisers who promoted the insulting concept of linkage, which tried to use loan guarantees as a stick to bully Israel. I stood with you, and together we defeated them and we stopped that effort."

WHAT GORE IS REFERRING TO:

Bush-I forced Shamir to the negotiating table (circa 1991, Madrid conference) by withholding $10 Billion in loan guarantee.

What is interesting is that Yassir Arafat was actually glad to see George W. Bush win over Al Gore, because in his culture "the Apple never falls far from the tree."

He thought George Bush senior was more even-handed with the Palestinians and tough enough on the Israel right wing.

Avi Shlaim wrote in his book,

"Bush himself felt he owed no debt to Israel or to American Jewry. He had been vice president in the most pro-Israeli history, yet he won only 5% of the Jewish vote in the 1988 presidential election."

(The Iron Wall, p.487)

167. Sitka

===========
Read some history books and stop name-calling, and bashing.

What is Stevia? Stevia is of the Composite family, related to lettuce, marigold and chicory. It was "Officially" discovered in the late 19th century by Dr. Moises Santiago Bertoni. He was given samples of the plant and he reported that "one small piece of the leaf will keep the mouth sweet for an hour". He named the plant Stevia Rebuadiani Bertoni in honor of a Paraguayan chemist name Rebaudi. Bertoni found that the Guarani Indians had been using the leaves of the plant to sweeten bitter teas and as a sweet treat.

and

The new century has brought us a new sweetener. Not a newly created sweetener, fresh from experimental chemical labs, but a new old sweetener, originally from Paraguay. Used for centuries by South American natives to sweeten tea and for medicinal preparations, stevia, the sweet herb, has finally made its way to North America. This amazing sweet herb is being embraced by health practitioners and health food cooks alike for its many qualities that give it an edge over more traditional sweeteners.

Stevia is incredibly sweet, 30 to 100 times sweeter than sugar. A recipe for cookies sweetened with stevia may call for only 1/4 teaspoon to sweeten the whole batch. Stevia contains no calories. Stevia is a healthful alternative to artificial sweeteners for most diabetics because stevia does not affect blood sugar levels. Sandy Corlett, of the Diabetes Resource Center, says, “stevia is one of two sweeteners that we recommend. It is a much better choice than artificial sweeteners. The other recommended sweetener is called Sweet Balance and it is made from the kiwi fruit.”

CORRECTION

"Bush himself felt he owed no debt to Israel or to American Jewry. He had been vice president in the most pro-Israeli ADMINISTRATION IN history, [at that time] yet he won only 5% of the Jewish vote in the 1988 presidential election."

(The Iron Wall, p.487)

169.

ignoring...... 

A real kick in the stomach, aint it? But where else you gonna go? Kucinich?

173.Sitka

A real kick in the stomach, aint it? But where else you gonna go? Kucinich?

================
Well, they all have to SAYS they are gung-ho, that's for sure, but one can take comfort in the 22 that voted against Kyl-Lieberman, which included Biden, Dodd, and Feingold, and Wyden too (both of whom are Jewish)

Not sure how much Gore has changed since the May 2000 speech, but most of his history in office points to voting to the "yea" on that.

Imagining that Gore and Obama would have voted is an easy and convenient attack. But stick to the fact -- they didn't.

Imagining that others didn't vote to attack Iraq is an easy and convenient apology. But stick to the fact -- they did.

Kyl - Lieberman vote

NAYs (22):

Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Dodd (D-CT)
Feingold (D-WI)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Leahy (D-VT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Sanders (I-VT)
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)
Wyden (D-O

Not Voting - 2

McCain (R-AZ)
Obama (D-IL)

175.Sitka

Imagining that Gore and Obama would have voted is an easy and convenient attack. But stick to the fact -- they didn't

==============
You don't have to tell me - I got plenty of ancient history lessons when I was up to bat for Biden.

Some folks just can't seem to help themselves. They have severe temper tantrums and say outlandish things to hurt folks, then always want to apologize after. Some never do and they get more bitter and bitter. Acting and behaving that way has consequences.

178. Linda*in*SFNM

Some folks just can't seem to help themselves. They have severe temper tantrums and say outlandish things to hurt folks...

===============
As Sgt. Friday used to say

"Just the facts, Ma'am."

Gore no bore - They came. They listened. They applauded. They even did the wave.

By Gary Herron, Observer staff writer

The wave began as the crowd got antsy Wednesday evening at Santa Ana Star Center.

Former Congressman and Vice President Al Gore was scheduled to speak to them at 7:30 and, here it was, almost 8, and still no sign of him.


This "soul rebel", attending the Al Gore event at the Star Center covered his vehicle with political bumper stickers, mosty anti-Bush, with one pushing Comedy Central's Jon Stewart for President.

Although most in the crowd were there to hear Gore speak on global warming, more than a few held hope that he would run for president in 2008.

Among them was Fran Martone of Santa Fe, who was wearing four Gore campaign buttons from his run for the presidency in 2000.

"I'm here to support Al Gore. I've seen 'An Inconvenient Truth' a number of times but I'm also here to convince him to run for the presidency this year," she said. "I've got my question (form) filled out, asking him to run; I've got my buttons; my friends are out there with the signs."

Martone said she had voted for Gore, who lost to George W. Bush, in 2000.

"I think none of us knew how a Bush presidency might be," she said. "If you listened to some of (Gore's) speeches he's given in the last couple years, particularly the one he gave on Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday, I think it was a year-and-a-half ago, the way the Constitution has been completely decimated under the current administration with complicity of some of the Democrats, and how our rights have been taken away from us, that's a major concern of mine. Of course, the occupation of Iraq is a concern of mine; of course, global warming and the environment's another one and I can't think there's anyone better to address those issues than Al Gore."


Steve and Marci Levine of Corrales took it a step further: They had T-shirts specially made that bore the message "Run, Al."

They were seated in the VIP room, where Gore appeared at 7:11 p.m., walking through the room, shaking hands, posing for photographs and signing autographs - including Marci's T-shirt.

"I'm not going to ask him if he's going to run for president, I'm just going to beg him to run for president," she said. "When he came by and signed it, he said to me, 'I've never seen that shirt before.'"

"Just say the word and I'll make a thousand more," Steve Levine said.


http://www.observer-online.com/articles/...



LOL, a pretty good piece. But they don't always get everything right. Fran wasn't wearing buttons from 00....They were COOL change buttons of THIS YEAR. :)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/11/health/webmd/main1794137.shtml

A diet rich in low-fat dairy products may cut a woman’s risk of developing type 2 diabetes, a new study shows.

The report, published in the journal "Diabetes Care," comes from researcher Simin Liu, M.D., ScD, and colleagues. Liu works at the Harvard School of Public Health, Boston’s Brigham and Women’s Hospital, and UCLA.

Congressman: Dollar Could Collapse To Absolute Zero
Presidential candidate Ron Paul warns of coming global economic depression

Prison Planet | October 8, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

Presidential candidate Ron Paul has made a dire prediction that the dollar could collapse to absolute zero - precipitating hyper inflation, soaring oil prices and a global economic depression if current policies are continued.

"Once they realize the American people have awakened to the con game that's been going on - I think those people running the banking and monetary system aren't going to be too happy," Paul told the Alex Jones Show on Friday.

The Texas Congressman forecasts that if current policies are prolonged, the dollar could crash all the way to nothing and be forced to start over.

"If Bush is foolish enough to start bombing Iran, that might precipitate such a crisis as oil going to $200 dollars a barrel and really dampening the enthusiasm of the whole dollar," said Paul.

"If they continue what they're doing, it's gonna go to zero, we're gonna have runaway inflation, all paper currencies eventually self-destruct and are ruined, and we're in uncharted waters right now - this is the first time in the history of man you've had no solid currencies around the world and this has been going on for 35 years."

Paul agreed that elitists would seize upon a global depression by posing as the saviors and offering more control, police state and big government as the solution.

"This was the whole thing that started in the last depression," said Paul, "Scare people to death instead of blaming the Federal Reserve for the depression and the financial bubble of the 20's, they said 'well capitalism failed, it was that stupid gold standard', therefore we have to have welfare and of course everything they did prolonged the depression."

Phil, Vitamin D has shown to decrease many cancers dramatically. I started taking a supplement, but then thought I was getting to be too much of a nervous Nelly. :)

182.

DANIEL ROONEY

Well, it's surely at a record low and I've been concerned myself, because we can't continue and it's not getting better. Especially after Bernanke's latest move. Worse? We still have another year + with this dangerous idiot in the WH.

Now that Howard has the backing of the candidates we can go back to the old dates, the school cafeteria that was free for the regular date was going to require a janitor fee if we opened it over the Holidays for a caucus, and nobody would have showed. Thank you Howard for hanging tough. Maybe the DC Dems can take a lesson from that in their dealings with Bush.

Scholars explain president's plan for a North American Union

Human Events | October 09, 2007
Phyllis Schlafly

Those who seek to understand what's behind the chatter about President George W. Bush's Security and Prosperity Partnership as a possible prelude to a North American Union, similar to the European Union, should read the 35-page White Paper published recently by the Hudson Institute called "Negotiating North America: The Security and Prosperity Partnership."

The Washington, D.C., think tank is blunt and detailed in describing where the Security and Prosperity Partnership is heading.

Here's how Hudson defines the Security and Prosperity Partnership's goal: "The SPP process is the vehicle for the discussion of future arrangements for economic integration to create a single market for goods and services in North America."

The key words are "economic integration," a phrase used again and again, into a North American "single market," another phrase used repeatedly.

Thursday, October 4, 2007

It may be a cliche, but it is true: This letter is written not in anger, but in sorrow and concern. It is written to our friends about NRA staff who, tragically, have taken a course which, we believe, would be disastrous for the Second Amendment and the pro-gun movement.

Two of us are Life Members of the NRA -- one of whom was an NRA board member for over ten years. And our legislative counsel was a paid consultant for the NRA.

So we certainly have no animus against the NRA staff, much less our wonderful friends who are NRA members.

In fact, over the last thirty years, GOA and its staff have worked with NRA to facilitate most of our pro-gun victories -- from McClure-Volkmer to the death of post-Columbine gun control to a gun liability bill free of anti-gun "killer amendments."

But those who staff the NRA, without consulting the membership, have now made a series of strange and dangerous alliances with the likes of Chuck Schumer, Carolyn McCarthy, and Pat Leahy. And we believe that, if allowed to continue, this will produce anti-gun policies which the NRA staff will bitterly regret.

Christ said, in the Sermon on the Mount, that "by their fruits, ye shall know them." And, frankly, these fruits are not likely to produce much pro-gun legislation.

Substantively, the Leahy/McCarthy/Schumer bill, which NRA's staff has vigorously supported without consulting with its membership, would rubber-stamp the illegal and non-statutory BATFE regulations which have already been used to strip gun rights from 110,000 veterans. It would also allow an anti-gun administration to turn over Americans' most private medical records to the federal instant check system without a court order.

But perhaps even worse, the bill was hatched in secret, without hearings or testimony, and passed out of the House without even a roll call. And now, the sponsors are trying to do the same thing in the Senate -- in an effort to ram the bill through without votes or floor debate, led by anti-gun Senator Chuck Schumer. If it is good legislation, as its proponents claim, why such fears of a roll call vote or debate in committee?

Indeed, in the face of horrific dissent from the NRA's own membership, its staff has tragically ignored arguments and dug in its heels -- in an almost "because-we-say-so" attitude.

Understand this:

* Passage of McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer will not quell the calls for gun control. To the contrary, it will embolden our enemies to push for the abolition of even more of our Second Amendment rights. Already, the Brady Campaign has indicated its intent to follow up this "victory" with a push for an effective ban on gun shows.

* Passage of McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer will not be viewed as an "NRA victory." To the contrary, once the liberal media has used the NRA staff for its purposes, it will throw them away like a used Kleenex. Already, an over-confident press is crowing that this is the "first major gun control measure in over a decade."

* Taking the BATFE's horrifically expansive unlawful regulations dealing with veterans' loss of gun rights and making them unchangeable congressionally-endorsed statutory law is NOT "maintaining the status quo."

* We are told that the McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer bill should be passed because it contains special provisions to allow persons prohibited from owning guns to get their rights restored. But there is already such a provision in the law; it is 18 U.S.C. 925(c). And the reason why no one has been able to get their rights restored under CURRENT LAW is that funds for the system have been blocked by Chuck Schumer. It is no favor to gun owners for Chuck Schumer -- the man who has blocked funding for McClure-Volkmer's "relief from disability" provisions for 15 years -- to now offer to give us back a tepid version of the provisions of current law which he has tried so hard to destroy.

Finally, there is the cost, which ranges from $1 billion in the cheapest draft to $5 billion -- to one bill which places no limits whatsoever on spending. Thus, we would be drastically increasing funding for gun control -- at a time when BATFE, which has done so much damage to the Second Amendment, should be punished, rather than rewarded.

We would now respectfully ask the NRA staff to step back from a battle with its membership -- and to join with us in opposing McCarthy/Leahy/Schumer gun control, rather than supporting it.

And, to our friends and NRA members, we would ask that you take this letter and pass it onto your friends and colleagues.

President George W. Bush's Security and Prosperity Partnership

Sounds like Japan's  Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (aka the Japenese Empire).

I wonder if we'll as happy under Bush's heel as these people were under Japan's? 

Off Topic

MTV program about a bisexual woman who will plow through 16 lesbians and 16 men til she comes to a final choice on which lucky person is her final pick.

 Folks, if I had kids, I would cut my cable.

 Folks, if I had kids, I would cut my cable

Or do what I did with FauxNewz -- remove it from my remote. I never even know it exists except when I hear about its outrages.

In fact, I've already removed MTV from my remote too.

Scoops graph wouldn't look so good in constant dollars. (120.)

181. Phil

A diet rich in low-fat dairy products may cut a woman’s risk of developing type 2 diabetes, a new study shows
==============

Dr Phil, and his therapeutic cows. LOL

Indians are going to be my pick, paine.

190&191

Well, good, I guess I am not off target. 

do what i do turn off the tv  talk to your kids  its all lies and trash.

talk to your kids  its all lies and trash. 

That depends on what you're telling them. 

I Officially Give up On the Democrats
by Cenk Uygur [Subscribe]
Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 07:37:54 AM PDT

It's going to take a generation to move these spineless Democrats out of office. Unfortunately, that is our only alternative. You can't vote for a Republican these days and the Democrats make you embarrassed to ever be associated with them.

Jack Goldsmith is one of the most conservative lawyers in the country. He was the head of the Office of Legal Counsel for George W. Bush. He is telling you that what the Bush administration did for years in its first term was definitely illegal (that's why he demanded changes in their practices when he was at OLC) and strongly suggesting that what they are doing now might also be illegal.

So, what is the Democratic response? They are considering changing the law to make it legal in hindsight. The equivalent would be if the Republicans tried to pass a law saying it was acceptable to lie under oath after they saw Clinton perjure himself in the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Could you imagine?
Cenk Uygur's diary :: ::

Of course, not. Because the Republicans are fighters. As loathsome as their policies have been for these last six years, at least I respect their willingness to fight for their side. I also respected President Clinton when he fought back against them, whether it was when Newt Gingrich shut down the government or when they tried to remove him from office.

Read this New York Times article. The Democrats are going to help Bush break the FISA law. They are going to change the law so that he doesn't have to get a warrant. They are going to ignore the fourth amendment and current federal laws. Why would you help the least popular president in history? Why would you allow him to keep breaking the law?

The answer is at the end of the article. Interest groups that are working closely with the Democrats explain their primary concern - being called weak on terror. But don't you see, you are weak! Miserably weak. Not because of any actions you might or might not have taken on the war on terror, but because you keep caving into an administration that has no political capital because you don't have the nerve to fight for your principles.

How is it possible to have any respect for these Democrats?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/9/...

MATRIX OF EVIL - "If America falls..."

You Tube | October 08, 2007

Alex Jones speaking at the Project Censored Awards.

189. Imn2Paine
===============
that's another reason I like network airwaves, it's a technical challenge to adjust the antenna. I tell my 11-year-old, "when your 18, you can move out and get cable."

When I carefully articulate the explanation of something on SNL, Jay Leno, or Mystery, of a sexual nature, she say's nonchalantly "yea, I know" but she really doesn't. What she knows is the 11-year-peer-TV-version of the explanation.

Indians!  Stinkin' Indians.  Bring 'em on.  Bring 'em on.   That the best ya got, Phil? 

BoSox'08

BTW  enjoy the off season Yankee fans

Zemel says the study also showed that eating three to four servings of dairy products a day is more effective at enhancing weight loss efforts than calcium ...

I wasn't going to get involved, but at this point I'd like to ask who payed for the study and who's paying for the ads. 

two little girls maybe seven and eight were at the side of the road in the cold howling wind with big brother holding a sign that said BAKE SALE,   so I turned around and found out they had some home made brownies. 2/$1

so much for the yogurt weight loss diet for me

I asked them what they were going to do with the money.

"buy our mom a Christmas present"

I wish I'd of had a little more cash on me.

talk to your kids  its all lies and trash. 

That depends on what you're telling them. what the hell is wrong with you?

poor Hillary

a Cubs and a Yankees fan

well you can commiserate with your favorite Senator paine when the Sox join them

bring it on

152.

Huron John
Tue, 10/09/07
6:40 pm


Thank you Huron John but the op-ed isn't about me. It's about the overwhelming need in this county for single-payer universal healthcare insurance.

"buy our mom a Christmas present"

>A well made plan.  Good family. 

Gore Vidal and the Condition of America

You Tube | October 07, 2007

Gore Vidal gives his opinion on the condition of our country.

one of baseball's greatest:

"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this Earth" --Roberto Clemente

That depends on what you're telling them. what the hell is wrong with you?

I've never met a crank who had a sense of humor. 

179.

Linda*in*SFNM
Tue, 10/09/07
8:12 pm




"Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." --- Plato

Let me ...

Phil first talks up the Brewers (they fail to make the post season), and glombs on the Cubbies (traditional upper Midwest favorite/underdog).  Now he's hitchin' up to the Indians....

Well, you can pick 'em Phil.  Good luck.

198. Phil Specht
=================

I've read that the whole calcium rage has been pushed by the Dairy Association. That countries with less calcium in their diet than we do, have lots less osteoporosis...that there must be another dietary, drug, or environmental [pollution] factor that causes our bodies not absorb and utilize calcium as they should. Have you read or heard about that???????

That depends on what you're telling them. what the hell is wrong with you?

I've never met a crank who had a sense of humor.  go look in the mirror

go look in the mirror

I did. There were no links to 9/11 conspiracy sites. 

I'm calling it a day. the corn is down and tangled and with the 40 mph wind gusts blowing what corn was standing so you couldn't see the rows, but if you got off a little you plugged the head, so it required complete concentration for hours on end.

I sure hope the wind calms down.

nice to see the sun and get a few thousand bushels in the bin though after the rainy spell

the market will over-estimate the size of the harvest just a little because of field losses, as you just can't quite get it all picked up and the area affected covers millions of acres. 

When it comes to diet and nutrition you can find whatever you want to believe. It's the biggest racket since oil.

Phil first talks up the Brewers (they fail to make the post season), and glombs on the Cubbies (traditional upper Midwest favorite/underdog).  Now he's hitchin' up to the Indians....

Stay away from my Diamondbacks, PLEASE! 

Long thread!!!

Can't we impeach Steny Hoyer? We need a nickname for him -- how about Stinky Hoyer?

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/storie...

Guess this is the 'bad' news? Just whose side are the Democrats on anyway.

Telecom Immunity May Be in Spying Bill

By PAMELA HESS
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON (AP) - A top Democratic leader opened the door Tuesday to granting U.S. telecommunications companies retroactive legal immunity for helping the government conduct electronic surveillance without court orders, but said the Bush administration must first detail what those companies did.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said providing the immunity will likely be the price of getting President Bush to sign into law new legislation extending the government's surveillance authority.

There were posters of right wing cranks either.

Calcium

A Jap guy I see now and again said that fish bones are a goodsource of calcium in Japanese cuisine.

  Little baby/(small) fishies in soup.

183.Linda*in*SFNM

Phil, Vitamin D has shown to decrease many cancers dramatically. I started taking a supplement, but then thought I was getting to be too much of a nervous Nelly. :)

=================
In 1972, my mother got breast cancer (probably from the company next to our regional produce distributor, that was producing Dioxin, and was closed down by EPA) she had a breast, some breast muscle and lymph glands. She took multi-vitamins religiously and it never came back. She got no chemo. She is still alive today.

Since then my sister got ovarian cancer and my two aunts got breast cancer, all got chemo, all three died after a few years.

You're not a nervous nelly - a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Can't we impeach Steny Hoyer? We need a nickname for him -- how about Stinky Hoyer?

Stinky Holyer. Although "DLCer" is damning enough. 

"Milk, it does a body good." (paid for out of a deduction from my milkcheck)

the new California happy cow ad blitz ... nothing to do with me

but I raise soybeans, so soy milk works too

Matt Stoller yesterday at Open Left:

I just got word from the ACLU that a new and bad FISA bill is about to be unveiled tomorrow at 1:30pm by Steny Hoyer in a press-only briefing. Telecom immunity is not in the bill, but the Senate is pressing hard for that to be included.

The dynamic in the House is really odd. Hoyer and Emanuel seem to be pushing for a FISA capitulation to 'protect the freshmen', even though the freshmen understand their constituents don't want a FISA capitulation. No one will go on the record on any of this, and Emanuel and Hoyer aren't voting for the capitulation, only orchestrating its passage.

Jane Hamsher at Firedoglake adds:

The ACLU was completely cut out of the process - which indicates that when the bill shows up there's probably going to be some real bullshit in it. Doesn't leave them (or us) any time to organize against it.

UPDATE: And it's good news for a change!  The ACLU and the Progressive Caucus forced Hoyer and the DLC'ers to postpone the rollout of their FISA bill:

Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD), the House Majority Leader, postponed a press conference announcing new reforms of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act after progressive lawmakers banded together and said they would fight any legislation that did not include a set of eight principles on wiretapping that preserve the "rule of law."

"What's most significant is that the Progressive Caucus came together and said to the leadership that all 72 of us require that these provisions be included," said Caroline Fredercikson, Legislative Director for the American Civil Liberties Union. "This changes the dynamic significantly."

Chalk up one for the good guys, but we haven't won yet. The DLC will now try to twist arms.  Keep up the pressure and insist that your Congresscritters support the Constitution and the rule of law.

In all honesty, Phil, I hope your Indians do well.  I prefer the BoSox, but a good series, win or lose, will satisfy.

Get some rest - good REM sleep.

Just in from the HBO screening of Granny D's movie "Run, Granny, Run". This is a must see for those with HBO on Oct. 18th. Packed house, standing, applauding and cheering many times. I'm going to use one of her lines when I nominate my friend for county chair on Thurs. She said " Democracy is not something you have, democracy is something you do" and my friend has been a doer for more years than I. I've decided to run for vice chair instead since my job can have me working all kinds of hours and I hate to commit to something that I may not be able to do. Gets my feet wet on the other side of the table though, then we'll see what happens in four years when I retire.

Being in Vermont makes it a bit easier being a Dem., I mean we did endorse Sanders as our candidate afterall. I'll see what the others have to say at the Harvest rally on the 19th.

Gotta go but my prediction first...Sox in 4...sorry Phil.

Phil Specht
Tue, 10/09/07
9:16 pm

The real returns (as compared to the nominal) still look very good.     

American Comic Strip: "Pearls Before Swine" stars Rat, the boss of this outfit-arrogant, self-centered, and quick-tempered. Pig is the conscience. Zebra is a survivor (with Crocodile next-door-neighbors), and Goat is the brains. Duck is Pig's loyal but violent and unstable guard duck. The dark, twisted adventures of this bunch of goodfellas have made Pearls the fastest-growing comic strip of the decade.


Some funnies: http://news.yahoo.com/comics/071007/cx_p...

John/Susan - bummer on your diabetes - not an easy disease.

We need to dethrone Stinky Hoyer.

So on we go
His welfare is my concern
No burden is he to bear
We'll get there
For I know he would not encumber me
He ain't heavy...he's my brother

Our temps forecast in the 50's (brrrr!) in a couple of nights. You guys have leaves to peep but we have beautiful blackeyed Susans and goldenrain trees.

Well, they all have to SAYS they are gung-ho, that's for sure, but one can take comfort in the 22 that voted against Kyl-Lieberman, which included Biden, Dodd, and Feingold, and Wyden too (both of whom are Jewish)

 Fred from OR 

- - - - -

Is it really important to track votes by religion?  How did the baptist vote?  Can you trust the Cathloics, where are their loyalties (sarcsm)?  Actualy Boxer and Sanders are also Jewish if you are counting.....which means that the Gentiles voted 80% with the above mentioned Lieberman bill while Jewish Senators only supported the bill by 67%.   

Stop the stupid stereotyping! 

The putz language from the dead ocean animal is degrading, childish and stupid. 

FRED from OR
Tue, 10/09/07
7:05 pm

HW Bush, his Saudi buddies, Schultz, Becthel Construction and the old established guard of the State Department had a long history of pro-Arab Gulf state bias.  Up to the current admistration, Democrats have had closer ties to Israel than the Republicans (Oil businessman).

232. Great news, all of it. Major congrats.

btw, Please place your bets.

https://contribute.democracyforamerica.c...

I doubled down on the DFA-List Primaries Matter campaign. The more we give the more progressive candidates that DFA can support.

We Need Reed!

http://www.dfalink.com/campaign.php?id=2...

236. S. Jackson

================
I'm not stereotyping, I am just giving them credit for not being ethno-centric, and apparently voting with their conscience.

I keep wondering why we have to - when count voting and on all employment forms- say what COLOR we are...

So what else is new?

Iraq –Another shooting from Private Security:  Dubai based -Unity is US Federal Government Central Contractor Registered. …responsible for killing two Christian women.

Pakistan:  Pakistani aircraft bombed a village bazaar packed with shoppers near the Afghan border Tuesday, pushing the death toll to 250.

Venezuela: fourth biggest supplier of oil to the U.S. threatens to stop oil if we attack Iran

236. S. Jackson
===============

Didn't know about Boxer and Sanders. Thanks for the info. I just happen to know about Wyden and Feingold.

236. Kyl-Leibermann is a 'sense of the Senate' declaring Iran shouldn't mess in Iraq, their 'elite guards' are terrorists, in other words it's anti-Iran. There is some thought that the item was supported and fueled by AIPAC and other Israeli interests. Fred is just pointing out that good Dem's voted against the bill including several Jews, in spite of what is alleged to be Israeli lobbying in favor of it. In actuality he was pointing out an anti-stereotype, not stereotyping.

FRED from OR
Tue, 10/09/07
10:47 pm

Jews have a long history of voting against their economic interests.  There are other minorities that are far more ethnic centric in their voting, but it would not be politicly correct to talk about that.   

Annilow
Tue, 10/09/07
10:49 pm

I find it scary that we are talking about people's religion and how they voted.  If you noticed my statistics there is no (actualy negative correlation) relationship with Jews supporting this bill as compared to Gentiles.   

It's too easy to forget about the other Iran vote.....

July 11, 2007: 

On Wednesday, the Senate voted 97-0 to pass a resolution sponsored by Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) to censure Iran “for what it said was complicity in the killing of U.S. soldiers in Iraq.” The resolution required the Bush administration to regularly report to Congress on Iran’s role in Iraq.

While the resolution explicitly rejected authorization for immediate military action, the gist of the resolution declared Iran is participating in acts of war against the United States, thereby laying the foundation for a confrontation with Iran. Newshoggers wrote that the resolution may provide the “political cover for launching a war.”

Validating the concern many felt, Sen. Sam Brownback appeared on Fox News shortly after the vote and declared he was ready to preemptively strike Iran. Host Sean Hannity asked Brownback, “There’s probably going to come a point for the next president that they’re going to have to determine whether to go out and have that preemptive strike. And you’re ready and would be ready to do that?”

“Yes, I am, and I think we have to be,” Brownback answered. “Sean, if we’re going to be serious about this fight, and we’re in this fight, and probably for a generation. We’re probably in this fight for a generation.”

When the Congress vote to authorize force against Iraq in 2002, it cited as justification the fact that Congress had passed a law in 1998 sponsored by Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS) and co-sponsored by Lieberman that concluded Iraq posed a serious threat. From the 2002 resolution:

Whereas in Public Law 105-235 (August 14, 1998), Congress concluded that Iraq’s continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threatened vital United States interests and international peace and security, declared Iraq to be in ‘material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations’ and urged the President ‘to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations’

Jews have a long history of voting against their economic interests

Republican Jews? 

There are other minorities that are far more ethnic centric in their voting, but it would not be politicly correct to talk about that. 

I'm old enough to remember when racism was politically correct. 

FRED from OR
Tue, 10/09/07
10:49 pm

I guess you will give them a higher level of scrutny?  Do you want the full list?

Boxer

Feingold

Kohl

Feingold

Coleman (running against another MOTT { Frankel})

Levin

Specter

Sanders

 Lieberman

Lautenberg

Shumer

Cardin 

Sitka
Tue, 10/09/07
11:01 pm

As a percentage there are not to many of those since 80% support the Democratic party. 

As a percentage there are not to many of those since 80% support the Democratic party.

In that case, this statement.....

Jews have a long history of voting against their economic interests

......must be 80% wrong. 

......must be 80% wrong.

At least until the DLC hijacked the Democratic Party and joined it at the hip to the GOP. 

Thank you Linda for your posts about Vice President Gore.

---

Al Gore 2008 DFA Straw Poll Petition

Please sign HERE: http://americaforgore.com/

The putz language from the dead ocean animal is degrading, childish and stupid.

If this means who I think it does, you need to show more respect for one of this blog's favorites.

Al Gore 2008 DFA Straw Poll Petition

Please sign HERE: http://americaforgore.com/

Thanks for that. 

new thread:

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22526...