Moderation and Reason are First

Maybe Howard will be treated with more appreciation at the symposium than he probably was in Florida today.   I have read some of the media coverage, not very nice.  Florida Democrats have been on board with the GOP on this since March 2006 or earlier, and they have managed to make the media here think otherwise.   A real shame.

Florida Democrats are all for the early primary...statement by Dem spokesperson in March 2006

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Oh, and be on guard with all this talk about Universal Savings Accounts,  they tried this in the early 90s.  They could take all that money and build up Social Security. 

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1566

DNC Chair, Gov. Howard Dean, M.D. is first!

---

Don't forget!

Al Gore 2008 DFA Straw Poll Petition

Please sign HERE: http://americaforgore.com/

1913 people can't be wrong.

248. S. Jackson

I guess you will give them a higher level of scrutny?
==============
Scrutiny?
LOL - Maybe interesting

But Now, I believe you are stereotyping me, along with some kind of classic gentiles, or self-hating Jews. We've been talking about AIPAC and the influence on this vote.

Let's keep this in context, Jackson, and stop stretching the point. Anyway thanks for the list, it will help me to defend myself against such accusations.

3. Susan, thanks for posting that.


I'm off, nite all.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22527...
last thread

243. Annilow

============
Thanks for the clarification, while I was off-line. I never really thought about how many Jewish Senators there are, before S.Jackson mentioned it. I wasn't counting. It is really remarkable that such a small percentage of the U.S. population has 12 Senators.

Not that I think they are any different, nor do I even know if that is all true, what S. Jackson says. You cannot alway tell what people are by their names.

My father always taught me that people are the same in all cultures. It is their social environment that makes them different.

Well, all the posts about how Florida was on board with the GOP about the primary don't mean a thing.  Speaker Pelosi today said that none of it was Florida's fault...it was the fault of the GOP.

Truth seems to have no home in this party anymore.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

well, i just actually read the threads from where i left off monday morning. ok, i scrolled a lot! really guys!

1. why does s. jackson get more play here now then his failed attempts years ago? don't know....

2. in-fighting seems to be increasing over the past few weeks and specifically this early week.

3. i don't think hero worship is what this place is about, even with howard. howard's one of us means he's similar to each of us. no gods, just regular humans.

4. i was glad to see that the "hillary crew's" handling of our california electoral fight, shutting it down that is, was rightfully assigned to howard, art torrez, and the those of us in the grassroots california dem party.

5. how much spin do we have to bare from our own side when we also have to deal with THEIR crap???

ok, so positive notes:

1. susan, i traveled through your area yesterday. mariposa, oak hurst, over the hill to north fork and then down to madera. a totally red neck guy in oak hurst, who kept blessing me, kept saying that we've got to all join together. all americans. i didn't have time to inquire about the specifics, but he seemed genuine.

2. the guy in north fork, in a little mountain town mostly shut down due to the mill closing, was totally cool. he occupies his family cabin built in 1947. in great shape. the guy's adult kids have gone to burning man as fire dancers and they bragged about it. they have a great garden, fresh food, and raise 8 lambs a year for family consumption. he and his wife are doing the al gore eat local, rely on yourself, create your own energy: wind mills.

3. then i went back to the valley and strip mall hell....

Truth seems to have no home in this party anymore.

One the one hand, it really sucks to realize that. On the other, it's the first step toward correcting it. 

11. Sitka

One the one hand, it really sucks to realize that. On the other, it's the first step toward correcting it.

==================
You won't find truth sizing people up like a used car dealer and labeling them into categories.

ignoring.

Good morning, BFA ... I am not sure about this being retired. So much for *leisure* ... I don't know how I used to fit work in! Up at 7 (OK, so that's better than 5:30) because that's when the workers arrive on site (still lots of finishing up occurring here) and it seems like all I am doing is running about after that. And there are STILL loads of boxes to unpack. How are YOU doing, Linda, and presumably, Thankful?

***********
mprov: Waves! ♥

***********
from last thread ...

101.

Monica Smith
Tue, 10/09/07
3:40 pm


76. [...]

The U.S. earned a lot of good will in the aftermath of the Second World War. Much of that good will seems now to have been dissipated by what Europeans and Middle Easterners refer to as cowboy behavior--i.e. sitting up high on a horse and bullying people like so many cows.

*******************
LOL, Monica, and putz is actually afraid of horses!

Well that epic trial thing is clear as mud.  No idea what it's even about.

Good morning, everybody 

I see there's a LOL for me, so will have to scroll up.  Then it's off to 

skewer Hillary.  Wish me luck. 

There is no truth.  Well, there may be, but we're not equipped to find it.  How do you know and apple is truly an apple?  It's isn't, actually.  For some people it's a pomme; other an apfel.  What we do know is what it's not.  An apple is not a pear, for example. So, the negative is more certain.

Chew on that for a while. 

10..Yes, the life style we are supposed to be eager to preserve really sucks.

low prices = junk products

low taxes = junk roads 

In re the Gore comments, posted and discussed ad nauseam ... originally, IMHO, in an attempt to discredit him. Fortunately, there are many here who have seen through that.

However Al's comments may be interpreted, the speech was delivered in 2000, during a VERY different Israeli government than that of today. Ehud Barak was trying his best to improve relations both within the ME ... and with the Palestinians ... by removing Israeli troops from southern Lebanon. He showed remarkable courage at the time, but little political foresight since his party later lost the elections to Likud, in large part due to this. I was in Israel during part of the pullout and there was a very active and visible peace movement there, but the RW was also seething and one knew that things were very fragile.

Of course, ALL of this happened before Sharon's deliberately staged provocative stroll around the Temple Mount in September 2000, which he knew would enrage Palestinians, especially since Sharon's nickname among them was *The Butcher* in reference to some of his personal criminal actions against them in Israel's early years, together with his giving the green light to the massacre of Palestinians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon in the 80s by the RW Christian militas there who were cooperating with the RW Israeli government. And, of course, Bill Clinton's government, which should really have known better, reacted in knee-jerk ... and stupidly ignorant ... fashion and blamed the Palestinians for their predictable reaction.

Bill Clinton's government had always underestimated the strength and influence of the Israeli RW. Remember when the Wye River Conference was held up because of a last-minute request by the Israelis to release the spy Jonathan Pollard (Netanyahu was the Israeli PM at the time). This was not done and Pollard still languishes in prison, where he rightly belongs, IMHO, and also in the opinion of the US Supreme Court and the High Court of Justice in Israel. The Clinton Administration was taken completely by surprise at this request (they didn't even know who he was!), which truly startled me since anyone who had been following relationships in any way between the two countries knew that he has always had a fanatical cheering section in Israel. Here's the wiki background on l'Affaire Pollard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Po...

The US will always be a friend to Israel; that is as it should be (although it is also ironic that the US turned away many desperate Jewish refugees during the years of the Nazi Reich, so this is a rather late call to conscience). However, real friends do not aid and abet criminal behavior. Flouting international legal conventions is certainly criminal behavior.

But then putzCo's USG is not in a position to admonish any other government for criminal behavior. How far our good stock has fallen indeed!

It turns out that this firm was NOT BW, but its behavior it certainly akin to it. And just for the fundies' info, the firm actually wiped out two Iraqi Christians.

This reminds me of one history of the Crusades that I read ... obviously not one taught in school in the US where the Crusaders were all heroes. The Crusaders actually killed many Christians who came out from the cities to welcome them simply because these people were dressed like everyone else, i.e., they looked like Muslims and Jews. More ME Christians died at the hands of Crusaders than at those of Muslims.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

===================
Guards Kill Two Women In Iraq
Australian-Run Firm's Convoy Fires on Vehicle
By Joshua Partlow and Sudarsan Raghavan
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, October 10, 2007; A01

BAGHDAD, Oct. 9 -- Private security guards from an Australian-run firm opened fire on a white sedan in downtown Baghdad on Tuesday afternoon, killing two Iraqi Christian women who were driving home from work.

The killings came at a time of unprecedented scrutiny into the behavior of Western private security guards, seen by many Iraqis as reckless mercenaries with little regard for Iraqi life. In an incident last month involving Blackwater USA, guards killed as many as 17 people in what Iraqi and some U.S. officials have described as unprovoked murder.

Tuesday's shooting involved Unity Resources Group, a Dubai-based company founded by an Australian and registered in Singapore. The firm was employed by RTI International, a nonprofit organization that does governance work in Iraq on a contract for the U.S. Agency for International Development, according to David Snider, a USAID spokesman in Washington.

The two Iraqi women were shot as they came up behind a convoy of the firm's sport-utility vehicles, and their deaths seemed certain to heighten tensions between the Iraqi government and the thousands of private security guards operating in Iraq.

"They used excessive force against civilians. Two ladies have been killed," said Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh. "They are facing a high level of threat, but this does not entitle them not to be subjected to justice, law and accountability."

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Eugene Robinson has a *Modest Proposal* on torture ... if it's not that bad as the administration assure us, why don't its advocates in the administration personally experience it so that their assurances will ring true?

You go, Eugene!

=================
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/com...

assure s/b assures

***************
Good question from Harold Meyerson.

===================
The Silenced Majority
By Harold Meyerson
Wednesday, October 10, 2007; A17

We are condemned, the smart guys tell us, to stay in Iraq. None of the three leading Democratic presidential candidates will pledge to remove all U.S. forces by 2013. In the think-tankocracy of Washington, defense intellectuals of both parties argue that pulling up stakes is not an option.

"Some of the people mentioned as possible defense secretaries under a Democratic White House," The Post's Thomas E. Ricks reported last month, "offer a vision of a U.S. presence in Iraq that does not differ markedly from that of the Bush administration." Even the fantastical idea floated by Defense Secretary Robert Gates -- that U.S. forces should settle into a permanent presence in Iraq as they have in South Korea -- seems to have won at least tacit acceptance among many defense deep thinkers.

Everyone's on board except the American people, but what do they matter?

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

I'm with Samuelson on this one.

=================
Lessons From the '87 Crash
By Robert J. Samuelson
Wednesday, October 10, 2007; A17

The stock market crash of 1987 was horrifying even to Americans who weren't shareholders. On Oct. 19, the Dow Jones industrial average dropped 508 points, which was 22.6 percent and nearly twice the largest one-day decline during the 1929 crash. A comparable free fall today would be almost 3,200 points. Twenty years later, the crash of 1987 has changed the way we think. It has stripped us of the illusion that financial panics are a thing of the past. They remain a clear and present danger for the economy.

Let's be clear. A financial panic is not just a big price decline. Since World War II, there have been plenty of those. From early 1973 to late 1974, the stock market dropped roughly 50 percent (almost identical to the fall from early 2000 to late 2002). Nor is a panic simply the "popping" of a "bubble," though it might start that way. In a panic, fear takes control. Herd behavior swiftly triumphs. There's a stampede. People want cash -- "liquidity," in finance lingo.

Americans thought they had immunized themselves against financial hysteria. Bank runs -- depositors wanting their money -- were the major form of panic, and Congress had dealt with them. In 1913, it created the Federal Reserve to lend to beleaguered banks. When that didn't prevent bank runs in the 1930s, Congress added deposit insurance so that a run on one bank would not cause a chain reaction. As for the stock market, the Securities and Exchange Commission, created in 1934, policed for the financial fraud that had often triggered panics. Finally, full-time portfolio managers for "institutional investors" (pensions, mutual funds, insurance companies) and investment houses dominated markets. Better informed, these professionals seemed less susceptible to herd behavior.

On Oct. 19, 1987, these comforting beliefs vaporized. General Electric fell from $50 to $41, Procter & Gamble from $84 to $61, IBM from $134 to $103 (all prices rounded to the nearest point). To be sure, stocks had seemed overvalued. Since recent lows in mid-1982, they had roughly tripled. The market's price-to-earnings ratio (P/E) was 22, up from 13 four years earlier. (The ratio is an indicator of stock value. If a company has earnings -- profits -- of $1 per share and a stock price of $15, its P/E is 15.) Although stocks might go lower, few investors expected a collapse.

What's fascinating is that "20 years later, we don't know much more about the causes of the crash than we did when it happened," writes Matthew Rees in The American magazine. In his recent memoir, former Fed chairman Alan Greenspan takes a similar view. Still, as Rees's retrospective makes clear, three lessons stand out.

[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

How nasty can Rethugs get? Apparently there is no depth to which they will not sink. Where on earth did such people come from?

*************
On a personal note: one of my sisters, who has insurance and who needs surgery that can be quite delicate, has been told by her HMO that she cannot have the surgeon recommended by the only specialist in the region, because that surgeon does not reside in the city the HMO is based in.

Of course, that city is also nearly 200 miles away from where my sister lives and the surgeon recommended by the specialist is only 80 miles away from her. And the specialty is esoteric enough that the specialist's preference should be heeded.

We are currently working on an appeal together that, I hope, will put the fear of God ... or a lawsuit ... into the HMO so that it will take the easy way out and simply pay for the surgery.

But the fact of the doctor's location taking precedence over long-term health and personal convenience should not be allowed and no one who is facing surgery should have to go through this hassle.

Believe me, I do NOT have to go through that here, nor did I have to when I was, as I once was, a USG employee (eons of years ago). That may have changed since so anyone here who knows should advise. If it hasn't, WHY can't EVERYONE simply participate in the same insurance scheme as USG employees already do? It would end up insuring more and costing less, IMHO.

WHY NOT?

========================
Political Memo
Capitol Feud: A 12-Year-Old Is the Fodder
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN

WASHINGTON, Oct. 9 — There have been moments when the fight between Congressional Democrats and President Bush over the State Children’s Health Insurance Program seemed to devolve into a shouting match about who loves children more.

So when Democrats enlisted 12-year-old Graeme Frost, who along with a younger sister relied on the program for treatment of severe brain injuries suffered in a car crash, to give the response to Mr. Bush’s weekly radio address on Sept. 29, Republican opponents quickly accused them of exploiting the boy to score political points.

Then, they wasted little time in going after him to score their own.

[...]
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/washin...

Oh for God's sake, Abbas is turning himself inside out to please both putzCo and the Israeli RW ... toadying up to both and condemning Hamas (the rightfully elected government of Palestine) and this is the result?

So much for meaningful dialogue on I-P issues.

And a few more recruits for Al Qaeda are a-borning.

Condosleazza ... the absolute WORST ever. Ever!

==============================
Israeli army orders confiscation of Palestinian land in West Bank
Map: new Jewish settlements
· Seizure would allow huge expansion of settlements
· Move seen as rush to make changes before US summit
Conal Urquhart in Jerusalem
Wednesday October 10, 2007
Guardian

The Israeli army has ordered the seizure of Palestinian land surrounding four West Bank villages apparently in order to hugely expand settlements around Jerusalem, it emerged yesterday.

The confiscation happened as Israeli and Palestinian negotiators met to prepare the ground for a meeting hosted by President George Bush in the United States aimed at reviving a diplomatic solution to the conflict.

However, critics said the confiscation of land suggested that Israel was imposing its own solution on the Palestinians through building roads, barriers and settlements that would render a Palestinian state unviable.

The land seized forms a corridor from East Jerusalem to Jericho and is intended to be used for a road that would be for Palestinians only. Analysts said the road would run on one side of the Israeli security barrier, while the existing Jerusalem-Jericho road would be reserved for Israelis.

A spokeswoman for the Israeli army said it was necessary to build a road to link Bethlehem and the Judea region with Jericho and the Jordan valley area in order to "improve the quality of life" for Palestinians.

She said the road would be nearly 10 miles long and would be built on 145 hectares (357 acres) of state land and 23 hectares of private land that had been confiscated. She added that the army had designed the route to minimise losses to private landowners.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33092...

So, are we now going to bomb Turkey when it makes incursions into northern Iraq?

=================
Turkish PM agrees to raids into northern Iraq
· Limited action allowed against Kurdish insurgents
· Government yields to pressure from generals
Ian Traynor, Europe editor
Wednesday October 10, 2007
Guardian

The Turkish government yesterday yielded to its opponents in the army command, giving the go-ahead to the military to stage raids into northern Iraq against Kurdish separatist insurgents.

Despite opposition from Washington and doubts within the government that the action will be effective, the prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, decided that the military would be allowed to conduct limited operations against the PKK army of Kurdish fighters holed up in the Qandil mountain on Iraq's border with Iran.

Iraq promptly voiced its anxiety at the decision. The Turkish and Iraqi governments signed a counterterrorism pact 10 days ago, but it did not permit the Turkish army to conduct military operations in Iraq.

The PKK has killed 15 Turkish soldiers and 12 civilians in ambushes in south-eastern Turkey in the past 10 days, the highest casualty toll in years. Turkish television has repeatedly broadcast emotional scenes of the funerals of the dead soldiers, while newspaper headlines have urged the government to move into Iraq.

Mr Erdogan has been resisting pressure from the chief of staff, General Yasar Buyukanit, for months, but an emergency counterterrorism council yesterday acceded partially to the military demands.

"The order has been given to take every kind of measure - legal, economic, political - including also a cross-border operation if necessary," the prime minister's office said following the meeting.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33092...

Definitely Tweedledum and Tweedledee among the Rethugs, and it looks as if Fred T didn't impress at all, being included among the *bystanders.*

=====================
Romney, Giuliani Spar on Taxes, Spending
Wednesday October 10, 2007 10:16 AM
By LIZ SIDOTI
Associated Press Writer

DEARBORN, Mich. (AP) - Republican presidential hopefuls Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani quarreled over tax and spending cuts Tuesday, each claiming greater commitment than the other in a debate in the nation's struggling manufacturing heartland.

The government ``is spending money of future generations and those yet to be born,'' added Fred Thompson, making his debut on a debate stage after a late entry into the race. He said future retirees should receive smaller Social Security benefits than they have been promised.

After months of polite debate sparring, Giuliani and Romney squared off without hesitation, a reflection of their struggle for primacy in the race for their party's presidential nomination.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story...

Photographs for Che fans ...

=================
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/gallery/2...

Keeping my fingers VERY crossed ... and I am not alone.

************
Well, my respite is over and it's time to get cracking.

Have good ones!

=====================
Nobel win 'would boost hopes of Gore candidacy'
By Leonard Doyle in Washington
Published: 10 October 2007

Al Gore never quite closed the door on running for president again and his many loyalists are now pinning their hopes on Norway's Nobel committee, in the belief that the prize must be his, this year of all years.

The Nobel Prize will be announced on Friday in Oslo and for many, Mr Gore is head and shoulders above the other 181 candidates. The Nobel committee also has a reputation for making political choices. A peace prize may soon be added to the Emmy he won for his Current TV channel and the Oscar that was awarded last February for his call to arms on climate change, An Inconvenient Truth.

With little debate among candidates about America's role in causing global warming, the Draft Gore movement has been growing by leaps and bounds. It boasts a website that puts most official presidential candidates to shame. It has petitions to sign, a campaign song to sing, Draft Gore buttons, DVDs and ways to contact other Gore enthusiasts. Pre-written opinion articles are on hand on the site urging Mr Gore to run which his supporters are encouraged to plagiarise and send to their local newspaper.

[...]
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/amer...

I lied; I'm back, with a particularly spot-on rant by DU's Nance Greggs, one of my faves!

Enjoy ... and now, REALLY gone!

================
Jesus Facing Multiple Charges

Within days of his Second Coming, Jesus Christ (aka Prince of Peace, Savior, The Lord) is facing charges in a number of jurisdictions across the country.

After addressing a crowd in Washington D.C. with what is quickly becoming known as His now-infamous “Blessed are the Peacemakers” speech, Jesus was arrested for holding a political rally without a permit. A possible charge of treason is also pending, given that The Lord’s blatant anti-war statements may constitute a direct threat against the born-again president and his conduct of the war in Iraq.

Later that same day in Orlando, Florida, Jesus was handcuffed by local authorities after feeding a multitude of homeless people who had gathered to hear him speak about being Thy Brother’s Keeper. “We still don’t know how he pulled off the seven loaves and seven fishes thing, but the law is the law,” said the arresting officer, who refused to disclose his identity for fear of losing his immortal soul.

In a related incident, Jesus was again at odds with local authorities in Fresno, California, after attempting to prevent police from destroying makeshift shelters constructed by the homeless. After being read his Miranda rights, the Lord’s only comment was, “As you do to the least among you, so you do unto me.”

Within minutes of posting bail, Jesus reappeared at an Alabama state judicial building where he was promptly arrested for inciting to riot after making a statement about ‘rendering things unto Caesar, and things unto God’. “I knew the kid was a troublemaker the minute he started shooting his mouth off about the separation of church and state,” said a man later identified as one Roy Moore, who was outside the building protesting the removal of a granite monument displaying the Ten Commandments from the premises several years ago.

Jesus wound up his cross-country crime spree with an arrest at a mid-western mega-church, when he was unceremoniously ousted after disrupting a Sunday service by suggesting to the congregation that they do unto others as they would have others do unto them. “I was willing to let the whole thing go,” said the irate pastor, “but then he started emptying the poor box at the back of the church and handing the money out to the poor. When he started talking about he who is without sin casting the first stone, I had no choice but to call the police.” (The name of the pastor is being withheld due to pending litigation involving tax evasion, fraud, and an incident involving a male prostitute.)
[...]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

I want to correct the record. John Edwards immediately repudiated the Senate vote designating a unit of the Iranian military as a terrorist force saying in Elkader Iowa. "You can't trust George Bush If you give him an inch he will take a mile." recognizing the vote as an authorization of military action against Iran.

...

Gotta go but my prediction first...Sox in 4...sorry Phil.

++++

Reed -

Agree with you there.

5 are playing by the rules --

-- Biden, Edwards, Kucinich, Obama, Richardson:

 http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/09/michigan.primary/index.html?section=cnn_latest

• Biden campaign accuses Clinton, Dodd of abandoning early state voters

• Five Democrats withdraw from Michigan's January 15 primary
  
• Sen. Clinton will not withdraw from Michigan primary, campaign says
  
• Primary violated party rules barring primaries before February 5 

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Five Democratic presidential candidates Tuesday sought to officially withdraw from Michigan's January 15 primary, rendering the event virtually insignificant.

Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, and Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio all announced the move Tuesday, the deadline for filing such paperwork.

...

Under Democratic National Committee rules, only Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina are allowed to hold primaries before February 5.

But Michigan Democrats moved their state's primary date to January in an effort to increase the state's influence in the nominee selection process, arguing Iowa and New Hampshire unfairly dominate the process.

...

While Dodd's campaign is "committed to the importance of Iowa and New Hampshire going first," Dodd will not withdraw from the ballot, said Dodd's communications director Hari Sevugan.

"It does not benefit any of us, if we are the nominee, to pull our name off the ballot and slight Michigan voters," Sevugan said.

The Clinton campaign said she will not withdraw from the Michigan ballot because it is unnecessary to do so.

...

But Clinton may also benefit from staying and winning even a non-competitive primary, Schneider said.

"It will earn her a lot of good will in Michigan if the state schedules a later caucus to pick its delegates," he said.

The DNC voted to punish both Michigan and Florida by refusing to seat their delegates at next summer's Democratic National Convention.

In response, Florida Democrats last week filed a lawsuit against the DNC, asserting the national party's punishment is illegal because it denies Florida the right to help choose the Democratic nominee for President.

Candidates have until October 31 to withdraw from the Florida primary, Albert Martine, a spokesman for Florida Speaker of the House Marco Rubio, said.

Both Florida and Michigan could play critical roles in the next presidential election.

Florida proved its importance during the recount and the ensuing Supreme Court decision that decided the 2000 election.

...

Sorry Howard but it looks like -- 

-- Clinton and Dodd will do whatever it takes to win.

mprov, thank you, great comments.

_____________________

Judy, thank you for you comments.

And a great round of news today, too.

also,
23.

Judy, I do hope all works out for your sister. It sounds like they are literally trying to avoid paying and coming up with an excuse. Yes, someone having to deal with medical issues should not also have to deal with the nonsense of refusing coverage, because the Dr. may have Green eyes and they think that's the sign of the Devil, or what ever excuse they want to give.

You all may remember when my hubby had a Cornea transplant (which hasn't taken well), over 3 years ago. Humana aproved it, then rejected it bill after completetion. They paid for the other services from the surgery, but wouldn't pay for the transplant. The gave an entire host of reasons (excuses), that I countered continually, but they still wouldn't pay. This went on for 2 years. No kidding. They ONLY magically fixed it, even with all the copies of papers sent to them previously, when I got the Ohio Insurance Commissioner involved. Within weeks, "it's all been taken care of". AMAZING. So yes, get it straight before hand when you have more to work with and hopefully you will have success, SOON. Maybe there is someone like that for your sister to turn to. My best to you and sister.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/10/53858/932

Maybe Howard will be treated with more appreciation at the symposium than he probably was in Florida today.   I have read some of the media coverage, not very nice.  Florida Democrats have been on board with the GOP on this since March 2006 or earlier, and they have managed to make the media here think otherwise.   A real shame.

+++

Indeed. 

Florida in 2000 infamously gave (err shoved) Bush on us Americans as President, with the help of the Supreme Court and a ridiculous voting system that involved hanging chads.

The day that Gore in Dec 2000 reluctantly conceded, after weeks of ardously fighting for recounts, was the worst Christmas in a long time.  The Christmas's since then have been pretty much the same -- a feeling of being robbed, of being cheated.

I hope Al gets nominated and awarded for a Nobel prize this week.

Monica wrote "How do you know and apple is truly an apple? It's isn't, actually."

Might the platonic ideal of an apple truly be an apple?  It's just an idea.

the flagship New York City newspaper (no, not the New York Times, but rather the eloquent and professional epitomy of journalism, and it's readers, at it's best) --

-- the New York Post

(says let's play pin the [flag] tail on the donkey):

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10102007/postopinion/letters/obamas_flagging_love_for_his_o.htm

October 10, 2007 --

THE ISSUE: Sen. Barack Obama's decision not to wear an American flag lapel pin.

In "Obama: Why I Stopped Wearing Flag Pin" (Oct. 5), Sen. Barack Obama is quoted as saying "Instead, I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism."

Well, senator, a true patriot would know that we already live in the greatest country in the world.

A candidate for the nation's highest elected office should know this as well.

Thanks for giving me one more reason not to vote for you.

Christopher Maselli
New Rochelle

****

I believe a person ought to display the flag in support of our troops. Call me a phony, but I'm proud to be an American.

Frederick Bedell Jr.
Glen Oaks, N.Y.

****

The flag is one symbol of the United States.

The president of the United States not only represents America, but he or she is another "symbol" as well.

If Obama is too ashamed of one of the symbols for this country - a symbol many have died to defend so that he and his family can be free - he has no business becoming the other symbol of this country.

D.M. Diana
Greeley, Pa.

...

35.

Jeff Jacoby is as Jeff Jacoby does --

-- but IMO Forrest Gump though is much smarter. 

Among the letters to the NY Post reproduced by rdorgan, Frederick Bedell Jr. of Glen Oaks writes: "I believe a person ought to display the flag in support of our troops. Call me a phony, but I'm proud to be an American."

You’re a phony.

OUCH! Brings an entire new mean to Team Sport and Team Player, when one person in that group can really spoil it for the rest of the group.

Marion Jones, not just returned her medals, she's returning her team mates Medals, too.

I know I didn't think about that.

But unfortunately, it's true, they won with that team member, that team member improperly won.

Wow, still bites.

Tom Bearse
Wed, 10/10/07
8:49 am
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The bigger question is something every American must ponder......."am i a believer in my country right or wrong"?

Im quite certain the founders of this nation would gladly argue with anybody wearing a flag pin IF they take that attitude......IF not, then they can wear 100 flag pins if thats what makes them fell secure and more patriotic.................

Turkish PM agrees to raids into northern Iraq
· Limited action allowed against Kurdish insurgents
· Government yields to pressure from generals

Ian Traynor, Europe editor-The Guardian
The Turkish government yesterday yielded to its opponents in the army command, giving the go-ahead to the military to stage raids into northern Iraq against Kurdish separatist insurgents.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/turkey/story/0...

42.

...

then they can wear 100 flag pins if thats what makes them fell secure

+++

Mike -

If the flag pins are custom made to be bullet-proof, then 100 pins might just do the trick and make one feel really secure.

A stroll in Baghdad or Kabul might be in order then, proudly displaying the finest flag pin(s) in the world.

but don't be unfortunate enough to get a U.S. flag pin that's made in China, there's always the concern for lead paint --

-- so much for feeling secure

fyi - there's a new front thread

New Thread, folks

I want to correct the record. John Edwards immediately repudiated the Senate vote designating a unit of the Iranian military as a terrorist force saying in Elkader Iowa. "You can't trust George Bush If you give him an inch he will take a mile." recognizing the vote as an authorization of military action against Iran.

Edwards, on the other hand, just gave Bush the whole mile to go into Iraq.