Howard Dean is first.

Almost out of juice and I forgot my electric cord.

Did you catch Harkin at the Appropriations Committee, Phil?  Check out previous thread for WaPo report.

Peace. 

37. seashell :-)

Clinton leads in all sorts of leadership and c##p, yet also leads in "rehearsed answers" and "not answering the question."

Please tell me what's wrong with the minds of people who take these polls....

================
They are more enamored with "the first woman president" than the content of her character. Many pollsters probably have leading questions in a biased order, but I really don't know.

37. seashell :-)

One pundit I read this morning admired Clinton's "filibustering" of Tim Russert, as some kind of great assertiveness. For anybody else it would obsessive-compulsive obnoxious behavior.

Hillary Clinton's personal characteristics don't seem particularly worse than any of the others to me. I actually think she might have a streak of Harry Truman in her, and would not suffer fools gladly. The politics of the party is what the nomination fight is over. 

Hillary is certainly no better or worse than any of the other DLCWarDems.

My point Sitka.

As for suffering fools, Hillary has put up with Bill for decades.

As for Truman, that comparison has gotten to be overused. Everybody claims politicians they like to be like him. 

Hy buddy, linda b, thanks for posting that video of Melissa Etheridge, that stopped me from packing and now I'm crying. She does that to me. She is so powerful. I just love that lady.

Thank you. :)

Dear Linda, (we're on first name basis...HA HA, just kidding)

On Friday a friend of mine forwarded me an e-mail from Martin McGuiness, special assistant to the president for legislative affairs. At this point, we expect the White House to spin every issue to its advantage, but this quote in Mr. McGuiness's email stood out:

"This administration has done more for the environment and addressing energy security and climate change than any other in history."

While the claim that George Bush has done more to address climate change than any administration seems ridiculous, I am always willing to welcome converts to our movement. If this administration has finally come around on the climate crisis, then now is the time for them to take action.

Let's join together and demand that the Bush Administration commit to an international treaty that would cut CO2 by 90%.

http://www.algore.com/talkingpoints/

The truth is that far from having the best record on the climate crisis, this administration would rank at the very bottom. Remember, this was the White House that hired an energy lobbyist to censor the scientists authoring the government's climate reports.

Immediately upon taking office, George Bush rejected the Kyoto Accord that called for only a 7% cut in CO2 below 1990 levels. He claimed, with no basis in fact, that the treaty would damage the U.S. economy. And in April, 2005, the Government Accountability Office determined that George Bush's climate program "lacks a major component required by law: periodic assessments of how rising temperatures may affect people and the environment."

In addition, the White House worked to prevent any international progress on solutions to the climate crisis at both the G8 and APEC summits this summer.

However, his advisor is now claiming, "This administration has done more for the environment and addressing energy security and climate change than any other in history."

Tell President Bush that it's time to promote real solutions to the climate crisis and support an international treaty that will reduce CO2 by
90%.

http://www.algore.com/talkingpoints/

Thank you,

Al Gore



Time for a COOL change,
Gore
2008

Monica, thank you !!!  That was inspiring from the WaPo.

Yes, Clinton's filibustering is a lot like bush's "let me finish." She's a master controller, much like bush. She may even be a worse prez than he.

Does The War series continue?  One thing that confused me.  Was the Jewish girl and her brother sent to a camp that was later captured by the Japanese?  Were they offshore?  I thought all of them were in this country. 

Those little pep speeches given by war presidents are all the same aren't they?  I thought the Roosevelt speech after D-Day was trite and rehearsed.  There is prolly a war speech left in the offal office for every prez to pull out and use.

Ernie Pyle was a great and heroic war correspondent .   We had Perle but, IMO, the CIA had to get rid of him since he was going after the truth about 9/11, correctly connecting the dots.  

Kudos for Ahmadinejad meeting with the Rabbis.  He knows the difference between AIPAC Zionists and Jews.  Now if only the American people knew that.   I am ashamed at how he was treated here and CNN cut his interview.  God forbid the people here should see him as a rational pious (too pious IMO) man, willing to negotiate.

So bush didn't go in to get rid of Saddam but I never thought so.  Saddam should have left the country  and come back in after Bremmer disbanded the army.  Or just stayed away.

Fred, check Smith's vote on *more war with Iran*  Voted for it.

Edwards last night said that you can't trust bush with anything cuz if you give him a slight chance (which the congress did) he'll take it and run..so I think we can see the bombing of Iran.  Clinton kept saying that the info she has, which is limited, indicates that blah blah blah...........she's trusting the lies and hasn't learned a thing - or she's just dying to bomb Iran and increase her political fortunes.  Or she has made a deal with the bush family and damn well knows the truth.  They help her get elected, she helps bush bomb Iran.

These people are beyond despicable.

Impeach.   

check out the new MoveOn.Org campaign.

11.

seashell :-)
Thu, 09/27/07
4:04 pm

.....
Kudos for Ahmadinejad meeting with the Rabbis. He knows the difference between AIPAC Zionists and Jews. Now if only the American people knew that.
-------------

!!!

Kudos for Ahmadinejad meeting with the Rabbis. He knows the difference between AIPAC Zionists and Jews. Now if only the American people knew that.

Most do. But corrupt or cowardly politicians make it seem otherwise.

That's why the few like Rep. Jim McDermott who take a ton of heat for being honest and brave deserve support.

check out the new MoveOn.Org campaign. 

The link is a dead end.

We are getting barraged with some military planes today flying very low over our rooftops at what should be illegal heights -- it would be for private planes for sure. Perhaps we are supposed to be impressed for frightened or whatever. It's simply making us very mad but who there doesn't seem to be anyone to complain to these days. We're at war you know:))

The documentary The War is so impressive the way it is all woven together. I hope those who think Iraq is all about freedom are watching a war that really was about our freedom. And I hope they noticed the thousands of French who greeted our troops on their arrival in Paris as compared to the fake small scene in Iraq

We are getting barraged with some military planes today flying very low over our rooftops at what should be illegal heights -- it would be for private planes for sure. Perhaps we are supposed to be impressed for frightened or whatever. It's simply making us very mad but who there doesn't seem to be anyone to complain to these days. We're at war you know:))

The documentary The War is so impressive the way it is all woven together. I hope those who think Iraq is all about freedom are watching a war that really was about our freedom. And I hope they noticed the thousands of French who greeted our troops on their arrival in Paris as compared to the fake small scene in Iraq

BREAKING NEWS: Edwards Committs To Public Financing

11.seashell :-)

Fred, check Smith's vote on *more war with Iran* Voted for it.
============

Yea you were right. I called his office and gave him a piece of my mind, telling him Ahmedinejad's inneudoes about holocaust denial are as bad as the right wing Zionists' comparing all Arabs and Palestinians to Hitler and the Nazis.

We are getting barraged today with some military planes today flying very low over our rooftops at what should be illegal heights -- it is for private planes for sure. Perhaps we are supposed to be impressed but it's simply making residents very mad. There doesn't seem to be anyone to complain to these days. We're at war you know:))

The documentary, The War, is so impressive the way it is all woven together. I hope those who think Iraq is all about America's freedom are watching a war that really was about our freedom. And I hope they noticed the thousands of French who greeted our troops on their arrival in Paris as compared to the staged small scene in Iraq at the square.

sorry for the double post, I must have stuttered.

What is really great is that Wyden, the Democratic Senator of Oregon, is Jewish but he voted against the Iranian Warmongering, so who is using anti-semitism as an excuse for jingoism?

16. Joan* In*Florida

...there doesn't seem to be anyone to complain to these days. We're at war you know:))

================
We have to stop using that word. Think of it. War on drugs. War on Cancer. We've been losing both, but using the word "war" as countering bad things, gives it a good connotation.

We have to stop using the word "war" for anything good.

Sitka wrote "Edwards Committs To Public Financing."

Oops.  You can begin the countdown to the announcement ending his candidacy.

Randi Rhodes has single-handedly moved the draftgore.com petition almost 3,000 today!

Randi Rhodes has single-handedly moved the draftgore.com petition almost 3,000 today!

Sorry - double posted - excited I guess.

Post debate interview, Chris Matthews & Joe Biden

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-U...

3801

I see the fairness in the debates hasn't changed...
http://chrisdodd.com/blog/nh/nh-debate-t...

 Democracy is so great it allows you to speak out ,even after you refused to !  I am very glad to say that I see an incredible SURGE in the movement to stop the war etc. . I do not care if the msm surge is working .  I see a surge. Oct 27th , please protest in the streets somewhere.  Howard looked great yesterday, and I may vote again in 2012 for him. Democrats wake up. Wage Peace...and thank you to all who really do.

Stop any Joe Blow on the street and ask him/her if he/she knows what AIPAC is.  Betcha most say no.  Then ask if we should support Israel and betcha most would say yes.  They don't know the difference IMO.

You give too much credit to people who watch FOX. 

speeding by,avoiding the cops

http://markfiore.com/ 

And try this for the new moveon campaign

Dear MoveOn member,

In the past week, Congress has voted down three separate proposals that would have supported our troops and helped end the war.1 But yesterday, the House did manage to join the Senate in condemning MoveOn.2  

When the only thing our elected representatives can agree on is to silence war critics, it's time to get louder.

Congress may not be doing its job.  But that means it's all the more important for the 3.3 million of us to do ours.  We need to make it crystal clear that we will not stand down or relent until the war ends.

So we're launching Americans for Exit, a powerful new project that will remind our representatives that those of us against the war are America—we're teachers, factory workers, lawyers, moms, dads, students, secretaries, and dog owners.  We're 70% of the country, we vote, and we're fed up with the war.

Here's how it works: You send us a picture of you which shows how you feel about the war. Then, you'll record a voice message to Congress. We'll put together a big unveiling, use your photos and words in an ad campaign and deliver them to your members of Congress. We'll make it impossible for them to ignore you. Click here to get started:

http://pol.moveon.org/photo?id=11300-2950908-ePgYQ7&t=5

http://www.counterpunch.org/farago09272007.html

HOUSING MARKET CRASHES AND BURNS

Yes Tom, another link to the hated "Counterpunch"

(as in kill the messenger)

Why did the bank thief in Homestead, Florida think he could get away with using a stolen backhoe "to lift and haul away a drive-through ATM from a Bank of America early Tuesday"?

Because that's pretty much how it works in Homestead, where political cronies run a once-rural now sprawl ridden community like their own ATM.

Its political and economic elite did not only look away from the environment, it demonized civic activists and those who disagreed with the primacy of bulldozers, graders, and drag lines.

Most Florida communities have been throwing up road blocks to Walmarts, in a desperate effort to preserve character of place. But in Homestead-the last vestige of Florida's agricultural past in southeast Florida and in the state's largest county-it's all for sale, all the time.

Now that production home builders are slashing prices by as much as 50 percent just to push back against the worst entropy in housing markets in recent history, a question arises: throughout the housing boom, environmentalists and civic activists were challenged to be even half right about their claims to protection of law, clean air, water, fisheries and protections for public space.

So now that publicly traded production homebuilders, many of whom were active in Homestead and Miami, are trading down to book value, and may have to fall 50 percent more just to settle at the point they were in the housing recession of the early 1990's, it turns out that civic activists were 100 percent right: that tract housing planted in farmland, far from places of work, is not just an eyesore, doesn't just threaten water to aquifers and the bay, it's not even close to being economic.

So why aren't all those Homestead political cronies who trashed the public interest instead of giving it a fair hearing when it might have mattered in places held to at least as high a standard as the ATM thief will be held when he is caught?

The problem is not lending practices or more careful regulation of mortgage backed securities. The problem is on the ground in places like Homestead (Agrestic, anyone?) and other sprawl ridden communities in America. That is where Congress needs to look: how to stop tract housing that has proven to be economic only when fraud, deception, and trashing of the public interest outweigh legitimate cost factors.

Today, the bankers and developers who were all over Homestead farmland like vultures on a dead python for zoning and building permits (and contributed their share of liar loan mortgages that triggered a world credit crisis) are in hiding.

(Practically speaking, what that means is that they are on the phone with their Senators and Congressmen and the Bush White House, appealing for a bail-out by federal agencies or the government sponsored entities like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Just you watch!)

Today, the demographics of Homestead have changed. Hispanics could tilt the vote in a new direction in upcoming municipal elections. These voters didn't profit from the building boom so much as get dragged under the bus by its false promises.

Homestead and Florida City turned into exactly what so many residents and voters didn't want: a traffic snarled, sprawling mess, with a NASCAR racetrack, a Walmart and enough ATM's not to miss a stolen one.

SIROTA: WHEN WILL THE INNOCENT BYSTANDER FABLE STOP?

http://www.workingassetsblog.com/2007/09/when_will_the_innocent_bystand.html

I debated (among others) former DLC strategist Ed Kilgore, who quite literally regurgitated the Innocent Bystander Fable, word for nauseating word. He claimed that Democrats in Congress need to find total unity to do anything to stop the war, that they don't have 60 votes, and oh the Congress is so closely divided, yadda yadda. It is a false and misleading meme, and I called him on it, telling him that the Innocent Bystander Fable is deliberately dishonest.

Kilgore first feigned outrage that someone would call a factual lie "deliberately misleading" (and again folks, claiming Democrats have no power to stop the war or that they need any more than 41 Senate votes to stop the war is a lie - and a deliberate one coming from people who are "experts" and who thus know precisely how the Congress works). He then was forced to admit that yes, in fact, it is correct that if Democrats put together 41 Senate votes for a filibuster or - perhaps even easier - if Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid or House Speaker Nancy Pelosi refused to bring a blank check war funding bill to the floors of their respective chambers, Democrats would be able to ultimately stop the war. But while the Democrats' rhetoric is certainly different than Republicans, their actions really are not. The only thing they have consistently done when it comes to Iraq is try to pass the buck, and worse, successfully pass blank checks.

Everyone inside the 50-square mile radius of Washington, D.C. - politicians, activists, reporters, pundits, everyone - wants us to believe that Democrats are just Innocent Bystanders, that they have no power to do anything, and that, in fact, the Constitution does not include Article 1, Section 9 specifically stating "No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law."

It is a lie being perpetrated on the American public - and if folks in Washington are confused about why the public is so disgusted with Congress and with Democrats, it is because the public has figured out when it is being lied to.

34.Huron John

Yes Tom, another link to the hated "Counterpunch"
(as in kill the messenger
========================

the messenger from hell

HILLARY HATES YOU

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-mizner/hillary-hates-you_b_66204.html

She thinks you're weak. She has no respect for you, and her lack of respect amounts to loathing--the kind of loathing that the powerful feel for the powerless. She's confident that progressives are too impotent, divided, and disorganized to deny her the nomination.

How else to explain her vote for the Lieberman-Kyl Amendment, which designates "Iran's Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization"? Do the math, people: the Revolution Guards are terrorists + Bush launched a global war on terror = _____. Jim Webb called the bill "Cheney's fondest pipe dream." Recall that "real men want to go to Tehran."

Her vote tells you that she's cocikly crusing toward the nomination that the press has already awarded her. Her chief advisor, Mark "union buster" Penn has crunched the numbers and told her that she can defy the core beliefs of the party's core with impunity. She can prepare for the general election and focus on money and do AIPAC's bidding and still win the nomination.

C'MON SHEEPLE, PROVE THEM WRONG!

[Counterpunch] the messenger from hell

For Democratic uberloyalists in denial, it probably is!

speeding by,avoiding the cops

http://markfiore.com/ 

38.Huron John

For Democratic uberloyalists in denial
=================

Coming from a contra-abolishist iconoclast with an inferiority complex, I remain unfazed

John wrote "another link to the hated 'Counterpunch' (as in kill the messenger)"

Shouldn't you be defending Fox News's broadsides against the Democratic Party on the same basis?  Just because it is a right wing handmaiden doesn't mean we should discount the message, does it? 

After all, my main complaint against counterpunch was that it provided a platform for attacks against political figures like Howard Dean and Al Gore, which basically sums up my criticism of Fox News.

41. Tom Bearse

=============
We should judge by the character of the content, and the color of the label.

CORRECTION

We should judge by the character of the content, and NOT the color of the label

Yes, we need to stop talking about the war in Iraq.

And the truth about Blackwater is that it's

Negroponte's Iraq Death Squad.  That's the frame I think we should use.

Who's gonna stop Bush?  The Germans didn't stop Hitler.

Tom Bearse
Thu, 09/27/07
9:35 am
[...]

I have some thoughts about your political persuasion as well, but I’m not going to engage on the blog in the same manner that you do, because I find the inevitable resort to the blog authorities that follows in its wake so despicable and tasteless.

>

Ya, it seems there is an interest in arguing for arguing's sake.

Ahmadinejad tries to strengthen S. America ties

...President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad arrived in the Amazon region city of Santa Cruz, then shifted to a Venezuelan government jet and flew to the capital of La Paz to establish first-time diplomatic relations with the Andean nation.

The visit comes on the heels of a U.N. General Assembly appearance in which Ahmadinejad said Iran will ignore demands by “arrogant powers” to curb its nuclear program....

Strengthening relations

...Ahmadinejad’s trip south underscores his strengthening links to Latin American nations that also include Nicaragua and Ecuador even as the United States tries to isolate him internationally....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21017301/

Post debate interview, Chris Matthews & Joe Biden

>

I haven't clicked your link, but saw the interview last night.

The one thing I took away from that interview was how foolishly susceptible Biden (others too, including Howard) is to

Mathews psuedo compliments.

Mathews just butters 'em up.

IT'S DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN - THE IRAN/NICARAGUA LINK

President Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua last month accepted promised Iranian aid of funding for 4,000 tractors, milk-processing plants, 10,000 houses, piers and the construction of a farm equipment assembly plant. In exchange, Nicaragua agreed to export coffee, meat and bananas to Iran.

Chavez is a vocal defender of Iran’s nuclear program, accusing the United States of trumping up unfounded concerns about possible nuclear weapons as a pretext to attack a regime it opposes.

“Iran isn’t making an atomic bomb, not at all,” Chavez said Monday. “They just want to develop nuclear energy. Venezuela will do it also someday.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21017301/pag...

47.Imn2Paine

Mathews just butters 'em up
===========
I'll keep an eye on that, but Matthews really sounded sincere, and he also gave some nice interviews to Michael Moore.

Speaking of Michael Moore, he was on Oprah today. If it repeats tonight it's worth a look. He's on with a representative of the insurance industry and a few others on all sides of the healthcare issue.

It is interesting that the U.S.A. once made a mess of South and Central America in the name of "fighting Communism" the same way they are screwing up the ME in the name of "fighting terrorism."

But we wore out our welcome in S. & C. Americas, and they are wise to us, now. Our pigs can't get a foothold down there any more.

Matthews really sounded sincere

>

I try not to get angry with folks, but I do.  It really torques me that people don't see the world as I do, but that is why I come here; I have found that sometimes I am correct, while other times I am full of chit. 

On Mathews I think I am on target.

Dems should be centered enough to disregard all non factual BS Mathews whispers into their ears.

Mathews words are like the Sirens song.

Buyer beware.

50.Denise
===========
Thanks, Denise, but it's just a bit too late - next time get on the blog and tell us when it starts.

52.Imn2Paine
=============
Now, I'm curious. What bothers you so much? How can a compliment be so destructive?

It repeats on the west coast at 11pm at least by me on ABC.

My friend in Coos Bay catches it at that time as well. And you could do well to use the word please.

Saddam...offered to leave the country.

He wanted to take a billion dollars with him and - disappear.

Hundreds of miles of underground, well supplied tunnels all over Iraq to hide in..or escape through.  Several countries would have taken him in.  Thousands of soldiers ready to 'die' for him.... never unguarded.

MANY look alike Saddams...

Found in a 'spider hole' - Alone ...photographed disheveled, in undershorts - doctor looking for lice..(A Rumsfeld production - our soldiers were PUNISHED for doing that at Abu Garhaib).

Mrs. Hussein when allowed to visit her 'captured husband' came running out saying "Where is my husband!?  This is NOT my husband!.

Who got hanged in that faked up scene?   Or did they get hanged? : )

?

Just got off the phone with Roy Gayhart, who is the man behind the  CA draftgore movement.  Newsweek is gonna do a story.   He also said what made the difference in recruiting petition-collectors in "red" areas like the central San Juaquin Valley was DFA!

For those in the L.A. area (or if you need an excuse to be in the L.A. area), there will be a no host lunch/rally:

Saturday, October 6, 2007 from 11:00 - 1:00

 Gloria's (Salvadoran/Mexican delicious food)

10227 Venice Blvd., Culver City, CA, cross street Motor

(310) 838-0963  Plenty of free parking.

We begin collecting signatures October 9th.

Evening, all.

Mike, I saw your comments re. US v Brazil.  I do believe I predicted we'd get our fannies whipped by the Samba soccer players:). 

I believe we'd have lost (perhaps not as badly) had he kept Hope in rather than Brianna. As far as the coach's decision...I think he was just that desperate.  His rationale?  Only thing I can think of is that Bri took us to victory against Brazil in 2004...so he put her back in this time in the hope that she could pull it off.  Bri hasn't even played much in the last 3 years so a weird decision.

and no, I don't think it is "anti-American to post the score", lol.  Sports brings the family of nations together, I've always believed.

BAck to politics. 

How can a compliment be so destructive?

>

Coming from Mathews, a compliment is a tool used to create a bond.  Mathews heaps praise and the Dem fool thinks he is safe.

Watch Howard last night with Chris...

 [if you can locate the video, please link it for me] ...and see Howard  blush and drift off into self indulgence.

The destruction comes whenever Mathews chooses, because the complimented is off balance, distracted, unprotected...at risk.

http://www.kevutv.com/

If you get KEVU it's on at 8pm in the Eugene Oregon area if you're in that range, Fred.

Back to my real job.....

I saw like the first 14 minutes of the US v. Brasil game

Started out good for the US, as the ladies pressured the Brasilian goal.

Then the Brazilians had a corner kick headedinto the net by a US player (Basil 1-0)

then yellow card, and I was told a red card ...

"all stop"

Be good Denise

Suzanne and 56. Thank you for great news on DFA participation in getting sigs and about Randi Rhodes on the Draft Gore petition.

Have very little time and only doing checking, movers tomorrow.

What was the occasion that Randi solicited for sigs? Did she blow a gasket from the Debate too? We crave info :)

Sorry Denise, I didn't mean to sound obnoxious. Nothing here at 11pm. I'm on the airwaves though, not cable. I checked her web site and I don't think she has streaming video. It is very difficult to navigate. abc.com really sucks compared to MSNBC

Good luck with your move, Linda

Fred, thanks

Paine, I don't wanna be good, and I'm heading to Vegas on Saturday for a week. So all bets on that are off...arghhhh

58. Imn2Paine

The destruction comes whenever Mathews chooses, because the complimented is off balance, distracted, unprotected...at risk
============
I think I see what you mean, but don't they all knock you down? At least this guy does both, but I guess it is "pity the poor naive politician who gets caught with his/her pants down." LOL

65.Denise

Fred, thanks
=============
no problemo, thanks to you,for telling us. Still trying to figure out how to afford/move to CA, but more interested in San Luis Obispo - Cambria area, rather than Bay Area.

65.

Well then, be very very bad, Denise ;)  {no need to "tell"..."what happens"}

When you figure it out let me know, Fred. I have a pretty good job and rent but anywhere along the coastal areas is expensive. Good luck to you. I wouldn't be able to do it with a family.

thank you Denise.

What will happen, Paine, is that my wallet will be lighter, comme d'habitude. I love to hide from my boss behind slots...LOL. She's so stressed about this meeting so we are all hiding.

In case Phil stops by - San Diego is leading the Brewers 4-0, thankfully, cuz the Cubbies dropped another one to the last place Marlins. Maybe I should bet against them....(smacking myself for even thinking that)

i have to share a quick story.

Since we've been here, this jack o lantern spider found a home. He was tiny and we weren't even sure it was a jack o lantern spider, til we let him be and watched him grow. Neil just went out there and tapped the string on his web, it came down and it smiled to say Good Bye. He is HUGE and....no lie...he has a smiley face on his body. Neil just about lost it and ran in for his camera. I hope I can take another break shortly and share them with you all, it's totally freaky.

Sam, you make good points and I, too, have always wondered who really was hung.  Finding him alone in a spider hole has always sounded suspicious.

Perhaps he's in Iran or Pakistan.   Or the Fountainbleu.

....(smacking myself for even thinking that)

>

You're a bad little girl ::smack::  I hope you enjoy your stay in Las Vegas, Denise ::smack::

69.Denise

When you figure it out let me know, Fred.
===================
One way might be to buy some ranch land and build a house.

Paine...LOL....

:X

Some news from Alachua that will brighten your day - this is the result of Charlie's dilligence.

WTG Charlie!

http://www.highspringsherald.com/article...

Link helps...sheesh

Not one "viable" Democrat at last night's debate would commit to bringing home US troops by 2013. Whose asses are they kissing? Certainly not the American peoples', much less Democratic primary voters who overwhelmingly demand and expect it.

*** cChalfonte***
Thu, 09/27/07
8:17 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good post and thanks..its always sad when the home team goes down, but I think the 2 best teams in this WC are in the Final...............since 1999 have you noticed that most of the other womens teams have caught on to the US game? Granted the US had a 51 game wins atreak but 9 years ago the US would have handled most teams quite easily.........byt thats been changing gradually, it  cycle as is evident in many sports.....parity is a good thing...............

I enjoy womens soccer........they play a great game and really exhibit alot of sportsmanship.....

Again, congrats to all the teams that made it to the WC.......Brazil-Germany is a tough one to call

73. Just in time for Halloween, Linda. LOL
---------
Thanks for sharing the info on the city mgr/robo cop, Denise. Charlie's persistance is paying off.

Sitka wrote "Not one "viable" Democrat at last night's debate would commit to bringing home US troops by 2013."

I know you're a person committed to peace.  Will you pledge to not kill any person, under any condition whatsoever, at any time until the year 2014.  If not, why not?

Thanks for the link;) Denise.  ...varwy varwy interwesting.

Just playing with yourself. 

Well, if the Dem candidates are saying to the anti-war at all costs faction, "kiss my as$"

then is it a french kiss performed mit panache in "the photo" ?

yer welcome Paine

SD 5-1 over Milw at the moment

"Panache is a French word for which there is no English equivalent, but carries the connotation of reckless courage."

> kinda like the Code Pink ladies when Sen Byrd told 'em to "get out" "I was xyz before you were born"

Interesting cannabis news out of Idaho...check out the pic of the supporter who worked hard to get it on the ballot. LOL

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2...

89.

Looks...content )

"Put your hand on the wall and spread 'em"

You are under arrest, sir.

Larry Craig To Senate: I Don't Know How To Quit You

.  how 'bout a tell all book?

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/special/forums/?campaign=pbshomefeatures_1_allamericanpresidentialforums_2007-09-27

The All-American Presidential Forum on PBS

OMG  Alan Keyes is part of the Forum !

Thanks for the update on Charlie, Denise.  Sounds like Michael and Charlie still have their work cut out for them.

Hi donna - watching the local news and waiting for the NBC comedy show premieres. Gotta load in the TV while I can.

Hope you've been well!!

xoxoxo

Brownback says "I am the only one up here who can say that I spent a few nights in jail and prison...to see first hand what it is like"

>

Pa-leaze !

try this, sir

"walk a mile in anothers shoes"

Ron Paul said, "we need to repeal the WHOLE war on drugs!"

to heavy applause.

I know you're a person committed to peace.  Will you pledge to not kill any person, under any condition whatsoever, at any time until the year 2014.  If not, why not?"

Tom, I'll take that pledge under one condition...that no one invades my home or threatens my person.  

I don't believe Iraq or Iran is planning to invade the US nor attack any of the dem hopefuls.  That was a very unfair and biased question IMO. 

"you don't even need a drivers lic.

...you can get a photo ID, relatively easily.

There is no war on drugs.  The powers that be have been running drugs for years and creating more in the process...........just like terrorism and terrorists.

There is, however, a war on MoveOn.  I'm fighting it by sending more money.  :-) 

81. i think richardson and dennis both said they would.

if the hard core want to really get rid of illegals, just extend the current rampage to require us to identify ourselves and require photo, government issued ID, to buy food.

Well, if the Dem candidates are saying to the anti-war at all costs faction, "kiss my as$"

With regard to Iraq -- which was the topic I was on -- the "anti-war at all costs faction" is a majority of Americans and virtually every Democrat.

anti-war at all costs faction

Is actually a sub-faction

That's why I used the word "viable."  The "Big Three," Clinton, Edwards, and Obama, all refused to commit to withdrawl.

Heard a snippet of Randi Rhodes' show today while driving back to work.  I wish I could have listened longer.  She was talking about how she saw Al Gore last night and begged him to run.  Begged him!

I'm at the point where I'm ready to beg too.  I don't really get excited about any of the Democratic field.  It is just not good enough to say that at least they're better than any of the rethugs who are running.

Lawd, where's my country?

>

ooo, you hit it there.  Ouch.

Lawd, where's my country?

>

In the seats of Congress.

war, anti-war, all i want to do is make weird music.

the majority of our citizens had finally come to think that we're doing the wrong thing. go figure. now, if someone has "A PLAN" they're the king/queen of the universe. "thank god its settled and i don't have to continue to think about it...now, where's my keys to my monster SUV road-kill gas-guzzling thing-a-ma-jig???

anti-war at all costs faction

Is actually a sub-faction

If so, the term should be used correctly -- not to describe the majority who want out of Iraq sooner than the 2013 Clinton, Edwards, and Obama refused to commit to (which is in line with a paltry 5%.)

"From what you know about the U.S. involvement in Iraq, how much longer would you be willing to have large numbers of U.S. troops remain in Iraq: less than a year, one to two years, two to five years or longer than five years?"

Longer Than
Five Years 5%

Brownback on health care

"when Gov. gets involved, it doesn't get better"

> Pardon me, but the take over of health care in the 70s by "managed care" is not better.

my monster SUV road-kill gas-guzzling thing-a-ma-jig

> you wish)

anti-war at all costs faction

Is actually a sub-faction

>

the chess piece remains on that square

verizon is putting in new wiring in my town. who does it? well the mexicans. none speak english. where are the protesters? no where cause they think they are getting something cheap.

these guys are maybe 18 years old. they work their butts off. never say nothing just work.

and they are brought in in vans.

work from 7 am til maybe 8pm in the 100 degree heat.

the chess piece remains on that square

Leaving a pawn on the board doesn't mean you weren't checkmated. 

verizon is putting in new wiring in my town. who does it? well the mexicans. none speak english

>

I describe them as "not local"

8 years ago, you didn't "see" "not local" folks like you do today.

WE can't do anything about it, it seems.   No one who might does anything.

It is all contracted out and locals can't compete on price.  Actually, the "not locals" put forth a lot of effort...like you say, long hours

war, anti-war, all i want to do is make weird music.

In this instance, "anti-war at all costs" is being used as an excuse for pro-war Dems. It has no real meaning, however, since the only people who adhere "anti war at all costs" it are Quakers, Amish, Mennonites, etc. 

Leaving a pawn on the board doesn't mean you weren't checkmated. 

> Oh, I don't imagine myself winning arguments against you, Sitka.  I may win a few that I am drawn into, but more likely...

I may win a few that I am drawn into, but more likely...

"Drawn into"? Surely you have a will of your own in the matter (unlike too many DCDems who get drawn into one rotteness after another by Bush?) For my part, I would have been content if you hadn't responded. 

The Beatles  She's Leaving Home   Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band  Capitol    1:33:47 (Real | MP3 | Pop‑up)

Art and Diane Linkletter  We Love You, Call Collect   CD-R put together for WFMU by Mac, of the Antique Phonograph Music Program    Mac's Archives  1:40:36 (Real | MP3 | Pop‑up)

So much for free speech in putz's Amurika ...

F**k Bush, I say ... and the whole damned establishment.

===================
Emotion runs high in debate over ousting student editor

FORT COLLINS, Colorado (CNN) -- Hundreds of students turned out at Colorado State University to speak their minds on whether the student newspaper's editor should lose his job over four words.

About 300 people crowded into a classroom Wednesday night, with another 200 or so spilling into the hall, to discuss a column that read simply -- "Taser this: F**k Bush." The debate centers around whether this is a case of First Amendment rights, or a case of abusing those free speech rights with an irresponsible, offensive remark.

The Board of Student Communications, made up of six students and three faculty members, was there to question David McSwane, editor-in-chief of The Rocky Mountain Collegian.

It was a chance for students, faculty and community members to talk about the column, which has inflamed tempers since it was published on September 21.

The board will meet privately Thursday to discuss whether to punish McSwane, according to board member and professor Jim Landers.

If members decide to take disciplinary action, another hearing will be scheduled in which McSwane would be able to bring an attorney.

"If people file a complaint, the B.S.C. [Board of Student Communications] must hear the complaint and consider what action to take," Landers said.

Landers said he has received about 300 e-mails opposing the decision to publish the column.

Some people attending the meeting brought signs, wore "F**k Bush" T-shirts and put masking tape over their mouths.

[...]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/27/cnnu.ed...

Orson Welles  dialogue excerpt   F for Fake (DVD soundtrack)      0:19:22 (Real | MP3 | Pop‑up)

From DU & McLatchy.

America, I hardly know you.

Out. Now. Impeach. Now.

===================
Blackwater guards killed 16 as U.S. touted progress
Source: McClatchy Newspapers
By Leila Fadel
McClatchy Newspapers

BAGHDAD — On Sept. 9, the day before Army Gen. David Petraeus, the U.S. military commander in Iraq, and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker told Congress that things were getting better, Batoul Mohammed Ali Hussein came to Baghdad for the day.

... Hussein, who was on the opposite side of the street from the construction site, fell to the ground, shot in the leg. As she struggled to her feet and took a step, eyewitnesses said, a Blackwater security guard trained his weapon on her and shot her multiple times. She died on the spot, and the customs documents she'd held in her arms fluttered down the street.

... During the ensuing week, as Crocker and Petraeus told Congress that the surge of more U.S. troops to Iraq was beginning to work and President Bush gave a televised address in which he said "ordinary life was beginning to return" to Baghdad, Blackwater security guards shot at least 43 people on crowded Baghdad streets. At least 16 of those people died.

... Still, it was an astounding amount of violence attributed to Blackwater. In the same eight-day period, according to statistics compiled by McClatchy Newspapers, other acts of violence across the embattled capital claimed the lives of 32 people and left 87 injured, not including unidentified bodies found dumped on Baghdad's streets.

[...]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

And yes ...

Shame on you, Hillary! Your AIPAC baggage is showing.

==================
Anyone who thinks Ahmadinedjad is anything but an excuse has missed the last forty years

[...]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

It was nice to get a break from THE WAR however gripping. So I watched the final 3 episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer from Netflix. WE ARE ALL SLAYERS!

Seashell, believe the young Jewish girl was in the Phillipines when war broke out and got caught there -- she was just a civilian. Don't think the Jewish part was an element. For speeches, the one that made ME cry was E Roosevelt on the night of Pearl Harbor. She was the first in the Admin. to address the nation! WE ARE THE FREE AND UNCONQUERABLE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. She could not have foreseen the sabatoge from within.

Thass all I think -- good night all.

For the record ... it is pretty obvious that Rethugs hate children.

Republicans do not necessarily.

But the Rethugs outnumber the rest in their party.

==================
Roll Call on Children's Health Care Bill
Friday September 28, 2007 3:16 AM
By The Associated Press

The 67-29 roll call by which the Senate voted on a bill to increase spending on the State Children's Health Insurance Program from about $5 billion to $12 billion annually for the next five years.

On this vote, a ``yes'' vote was a vote in favor of the bill and a ``no'' vote was a vote against it.

Voting ``yes'' were 47 Democrats, 18 Republicans and 2 independents.

Voting ``no'' were 0 Democrats and 29 Republicans.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/st...

Idiot woman ... worst SoS ever ... continues her blather.

But she, like putz, has NO credibility left.

What we have all lost because of these criminals is truly immeasurable.

===============
Rice defends Bush's UN climate talks
Ewen MacAskill in Washington
Friday September 28, 2007
Guardian

The US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, yesterday defended President George Bush's climate change conference in Washington against accusations that it was a spoiler intended to undermine UN efforts to secure a global compromise.

Ms Rice was speaking at the opening of the two-day conference, which is being attended by more than 20 of the world's biggest polluters, including China, India and Russia, as well as Britain, France and Germany. Together they account for 90% of global greenhouse gas emissions.

Most of the EU countries, and the UN, support mandatory caps on carbon emissions when the Kyoto agreement expires in 2012. But Mr Bush is opposed, as are China and India, who prefer voluntary agreements.

Ms Rice said: "We need to answer just one fundamental question: what kind of world do we wish to inhabit and what kind of world do we wish to pass on to future generations?" But she did nothing to dispel scepticism from EU representatives about the value of the conference.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33083...

Bill Clinton on the MoveOn Petraus ad and GOP hypocrisy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=58048&mesg_id=58048

My father was given the job of announcing the end of WWII on his ship.

It was an extremely moving moment for him ... and one he remembered until the end of his life.

He left us in 2004, but he knew putz for what he was even then ... and hated him and his government for what they have done to the country for which he had been willing to sacrifice his own life.

Good grief, where's my mind?  It was the Japanese who were put into camps, not the Jews.     Same war, wrong country.

IMPEACH. NOW.

=============

http://icasualties.org/oif/

We are well beyond 1984 in more ways than one.

=================
Published on Thursday, September 27, 2007 by CommonDreams.org
This Coup and The Next One
by Daniel Ellsberg

I think nothing has higher priority than averting an attack on Iran, which I think will be accompanied by a further change in our way of governing here that in effect will convert us into what I would call a police state.

If there’s another 9/11 under this regime … it means that they switch on full extent all the apparatus of a police state that has been patiently constructed, largely secretly at first but eventually leaked out and known and accepted by the Democratic people in Congress, by the Republicans and so forth.

Will there be anything left for NSA to increase its surveillance of us? … They may be to the limit of their technical capability now, or they may not. But if they’re not now they will be after another 9/11.

And I would say after the Iranian retaliation to an American attack on Iran, you will then see an increased attack on Iran - an escalation - which will be also accompanied by a total suppression of dissent in this country, including detention camps, mainly for Middle Easterners but not exclusively.

[...]
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007...

109. Sitka

That's why I used the word "viable." The "Big Three," Clinton, Edwards, and Obama, all refused to commit to withdrawl.
==================

Biden said he would get out quickly, if troops were still getting killed when he became President. If there was peace a la Bosnia, he would see no reason to remove residual forces...

...in which case one would assume they would be doing good work, like relief and rebuilding etc.

New thread, Fred.

130. Imn2Paine

Bill Clinton on the MoveOn Petraus ad and GOP hypocrisy
===========

I agree with Bill completely...

but I still thought the headline did more harm than good. Not because it was offensive to Neocons, per se, but that the message of the ad (which was excellent and to-the-point) got lost in the ensuing brouhaha.

Also, I was upset that MoveOn did not resolve the issue with a conciliatory statement, not necessarily an apology, but just a statement of clarification to soothe nerves of those who were sincerely offended. Maybe they did do that and I missed it.

it is pretty obvious that Rethugs hate children.

Republicans do not necessarily.

But the Rethugs outnumber the rest in their party.

Voting ``yes'' were 47 Democrats, 18 Republicans and 2 independents.

Voting ``no'' were 0 Democrats and 29 Republicans.

Don't expect the 18 to vote to override Bush's veto. Those who don't will still be thugs as well. And they'll claim that they voted for it.

thanks

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22353...