Don't deny it: Dean is first.

Tzipi Livni on Charlie Rose last night. She breaks into an uncontrollable giggle when Rose tries to question her about the bombing of Syria.

She seems to be more about public relations than about reality. She talks about moving the settlers out of West Bank as if it were a routine job. Itzak Rabin was the last person to talk about it, and the right wingers, like Netanyahu and Sharon, started calling him a traitor and worse than Hitler, with references to the Holocaust.

Leah Rabin refused to shake Netayahu's hand at the funeral because she saw a direct link between his rhetoric and her husbands death. She saw Arafat as a friend.

Get set for lots of fantasy talk about a two-State solution with Israel provoking Palestinians towards violence that they will use as an excuse for stalmating. That's the story of the last 40 years there.

http://www.charlierose.com/home/

If interested, Edwards LIVE on myspace in New Hampshire.

http://www.myspace.com/election2008

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/artic...+asked+Bush+for+%241bn+to+go+into+exile/article.do

Saddam asked Bush for $1bn to go into exile
27.09.07

Saddam Hussein is said to have offered to go into exile for $1bn

George Bush was convinced that Saddam was serious about going into exile
Saddam Hussein offered to step down and go into exile one month before the invasion of Iraq, it was claimed last night.

Fearing defeat, Saddam was prepared to go peacefully in return for £500million ($1billion).

The extraordinary offer was revealed yesterday in a transcript of talks in February 2003 between George Bush and the then Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar at the President's Texas ranch.

The White House refused to comment on the report last night.
....................
according to the tapes, one month before he launched the invasion Mr Bush appeared convinced that Saddam was serious about going into exile.

"The Eqyptians are speaking to Saddam Hussein," said Mr Bush.

"It seems he's indicated he would be prepared to go into exile if he's allowed to take $1billion and all the information he wants about weapons of mass destruction."

Asked by the Spanish premier whether Saddam - who was executed in December last year - could really leave, the President replied: "Yes, that possibility exists. Or he might even be assassinated."

But he added that whatever happened: "We'll be in Baghdad by the end of March."

Mr Bush went on to refer optimistically to the rebuilding or Iraq.

The transcript - which was published yesterday in the Spanish newspaper El Pais - was said to have been recorded by a diplomat at the meeting in Crawford, Texas, on February 22, 2003.

Mr Bush was dismissive of the then French President Jacques Chirac, saying he "thinks he's Mr Arab".

Referring to his relationship with Downing Street, he said: "I don't mind being the bad cop if Blair is the good cop."


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/artic...+asked+Bush+for+%241bn+to+go+into+exile/article.do

2.

Meanwhile, Palestinians are slowly but surely moving out of the West Bank (called by the biblical names, Judea and Samaria, by the Zionist Rivisionists) it is just a matter of time before "there won't be any need" for a Palestinian State there, because there will be more right wing Jewish settlers, than Palestinian.

Tom, I need to tell you: I just love your firsties.

Just finished the Zogby.  They wanted to know what American political party  Ahmadinejad would belong to if he were American.  I put down Republican. 

Hey.  The asked. . . .  

That would be: "They" asked. . . .

http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs09272007.html

If anyone still believes that Iraq is a free and sovereign state, a couple recent moves in Washington should put a rest to that thought forever. The first is the response to the most recent slaughter by the Blackwater mercenaries. The second is the vote on September 26, 2007 in the US Senate that calls for the division of Iraq into semi-autonomous regions that would be decided by the US client government inside Baghdad's Green Zone.

Furthermore, the fact that Washington's goal in Iraq is complete control of that territory either directly or via some kind of pliable government seems to indicate that the mercenaries will be there awhile. That is the case even if Joe Biden's resolution calling for partition of Iraq becomes the strategy on the ground.

What's most disturbing about this resolution is its hubris. No matter what the origins of the Iraqi nation are (and they include colonial maneuvering by Britain and others after World War I) the fact is that it is a nation and the only people who should have any say in its division are the Iraqis.

But Washington believes it rules the world. This belief is held by members of both the ruling parties and is essential to understanding how and why the US acts the way it does in the world. In a manner similar to the way Bill Clinton and company divided Yugoslavia at Dayton back in the 1990s, the Biden resolution is another effort at making a part of the world unwilling to bend to US control more controllable.

While Iraq has not yet come close to the slaughters of Korea and Vietnam, it has certainly suffered appalling destruction because of Washington's attempts to decide its future in a way beneficial to Washington. Once again, if we refer to earlier attempts by Washington to partition nations unwilling to accede to its demands, there appear to be two potential outcomes should partition occur. The first would be the Korean option--an option that demands a fully-armed concentration of US military in country for the foreseeable future. Furthermore, this scenario seems to carry with it the potential for open war at almost any time. The Vietnam scenario would seem to tell us that if a nationalist resistance can maintain itself it can ultimately reunite a nation and throw the occupiers out. The Yugoslavia scenario is considerably murkier. Bosnia and Kosovo are still UN protectorates--which means that they are occupied by outside powers masquerading as UN peacekeepers. Economically, both continue to experience extremely high unemployment rates and minimal economic growth.

Partitioning Iraq is not a solution that is Washington's to make. The recent vote by the US Senate is misguided. In addition, it will do little to further the desire of the US public to bring the troops home. Instead, it will put US forces in the position of maintaining the newly created divisions along new lines in the sand. Senator Biden's bill is not a solution. It is another false approach that has as much chance at success as anything tried by the Bush administration. In other words, it is destined to fail.

puddle wrote "Tom, I need to tell you: I just love your firsties."

Thank you, because that makes all the hard work worthwhile.

online voting about last night's debate:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20873667/

Interactive: rate the candidates - debate 9/26/07

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20997509/

6.puddle

I put down Republican.

=========
A good bet he'd be right in tune the religious right, but maybe not the Christian Zionist branch.

QUIT THE DEMOCRATS

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff09272007.html

Cynthia McKinney is doing it. It's time for you to do it too.

Have you, like many Americans, found yourself wondering why President Bush, over and over again, would hand the Democrats in Congress the weapon needed to bring him down?

At first glance, you have to wonder, why on earth would he do this?

But then look what happens:

In every instance, with the exception of the latest Iraq War funding bill (and we know what's going to happen with that), the Democrats have folded and given the president exactly what he wanted, causing apoplexy among the Democratic and independent voters who put them in charge of Congress last November. After all, Democrats ran for office last year saying they would stand up to the president, defend the Constitution, and end the war. Now each time Bush taunts them and they fold, public support for the Democratic Congress slumps further, to the point that today, they are even less popular that Bush-quite an accomplishment!

This is a truly impressive strategy-surely the brainchild of Bush's Rasputin, the dearly departed (to Texas) Karl Rove, who long ago understood that the Democrats would not have the courage and strength of conviction to stand against even a president as profoundly despised and distrusted as Bush.

The Democrats, under Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (surely two of the sorriest excuses for leaders that Congress has had in modern history), simply don't get it. They don't realize they're being played for suckers and losers. And they don't even realize that they are alienating their base.

Which brings us to what needs to be done.

The Democrats in Congress, and at the head of the party, need to receive a serious wake-up call. Since they're clearly too dumb or too out of touch to realize what's happening, we need to send them a message they can't ignore-the political equivalent of a car bomb.

I'm talking about mass resignations from the Democratic Party, with every person who resigns and becomes an independent or who changes their registration to a third party sending a message to the DNC explaining why he or she is quitting.

8. Huron John

...it will put US forces in the position of maintaining the newly created divisions along new lines in the sand. Senator Biden's bill is not a solution. It is another false approach that has as much chance at success as anything tried by the Bush administration. In other words, it is destined to fail.

==========
Whoever wrote that doesn't know a thing about the Biden-Boxer-Brownback Amendment and/or the original Biden-Gelb.

That is pure misinformation, John.

THE "LESSER OF EVILS" MYTH

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff09272007.html

Oh, you say, we can't just quit the party and let the Republicans win again!

Really? And just what have we gotten for our support for the Democrats in 2006? The war is still fully funded, and in fact has gotten worse, with 30,000 more troops in the country, not counting the 100,000 or so private mercenaries. Spying on Americans here a home has been legalized, with the help of the Democrats. (Nancy Pelosi can use threats of party discipline to prevent members from moving on impeachment, but she won't crack the whip to make them protect the Bill of Rights, or to defund the war?) And Bush is still issuing those signing statements, so any bills of consequence that Democrats have tried to pass have either been killed by Republican maneuvering, or vetoed.

And public support for the Democratic Congress is in the teens.

Clearly the only way to save the Democrats from themselves is to make it clear to them that they have to change or die.

And the way to do that is to join the "I Quit the Party" movement!

8.Huron John

Another Doomed ProposalJoe Biden's Plan to Chop Up

==========
"chop up" ? How about slice and and dice?

Link Between Air Pollution, Stroke Gets Clearer

THURSDAY, Sept. 20 (HealthDay News) -- Microscopic pollution particles spewed by diesel engines and coal-burning plants may spur blood clots that can trigger heart attacks and strokes, U.S. scientists say.

Researchers at Northwestern University in Chicago found that these tiny particles -- which are less than one-tenth the diameter of a human hair and too small to be filtered by the nose or mouth -- caused hyperclotting of the blood in animals.

The particles trigger inflammation in the lungs, which then secrete a substance called interleukin-6 that promotes blood clotting. This results in an increased risk of heart attack or stroke in people with heart disease or a previous history of stroke.

While previous epidemiological studies have identified a link between air pollution and cardiovascular disease and death, this is the first study to demonstrate how pollution may actually trigger heart attacks and strokes, according to the researchers.

"This is a critical missing piece of the puzzle that has eluded scientists for decades," study lead author Dr. Gokhan Mutlu,...

http://health.yahoo.com/news/179601

14. I'm sure that we all would be interested in a point-by-point rebuttal of Jacobs' article rather than a statement that it's "pure misinformation".

John reproduced this excerpt from Counterpunch:

"Clearly the only way to save the Democrats from themselves is to make it clear to them that they have to change or die.

"And the way to do that is to join the 'I Quit the Party' movement!"

Then what?

11. Huron John

QUIT THE DEMOCRATS

============
this is heresy? or troll-ology, maybe? There is a fungus, amung us.

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/stories/2007/09/12/mckinney_0913_web.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=13

Cynthia McKinney drops the Green Party

By JEFFRY SCOTT
 

Former Georgia Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney has given the red light to the Green Party, ending speculation that she would run for president on that ticket and leaving party leaders wondering where their months-long public courtship went sour.

McKinney, who as recently as August 31 made an appearance at a Green Party event where money was raised to retire campaign debt from her failed re-election bid in 2006, said she wanted her name withdrawn from consideration in a letter delivered to the party Monday.

...

IRAQ WILL HAVE TO WAIT--SCOTT RITTER

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092707C.shtml

The long-awaited "progress report" of Gen. David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker on the status of the occupation of Iraq has been made, providing Americans, via the compliant media, with the spectacle of loyal Bush yes men offering faith-based analysis in lieu of fact-based assessment. In the days and weeks that have since passed, two things have become clear: Neither Congress nor the American people (including the antiwar movement) have a plan or the gumption to confront President Bush in anything more than cosmetic fashion over the war in Iraq, and while those charged with oversight mill about looking to score cheap political points and/or save face, the administration continues its march toward conflict with Iran unimpeded.

The Democrats in Congress are focused on winning the White House in 2008, not stopping a failed war, and as such they not only refuse to decisively confront the president on Iraq, they are trying to out-posture him over who would be the tougher opponent of an expansionist Iran.

Of the two problems (the reality of Iraq, the potential of Iran), Iran is by far the more important. The war in Iraq isn't going to expand tenfold overnight. By simply doing nothing, the Democrats can rest assured that Bush's bad policy will simply keep failing. War with Iran, on the other hand, can still be prevented. We are talking about the potential for conflict at this time, not the reality of war. But time is not on the side of peace.

 9/11 linkage strategies have worked in the past, regardless of factual merit. One only need recall Saddam Hussein and Iraq to understand how easily the American public, courtesy of war-minded politicians and their co-conspirators in the mainstream media, can be so easily led down the path of holding one party accountable for the actions of another. Saddam had nothing to do with the events of 9/11, and we now occupy Iraq. Similarly, Iran had nothing to do with 9/11, and yet due in part to the distortion of fact taking place concerning allegations of Iranian "terror" activity inside Iraq, the link is clear, at least in the minds of many Americans. President Bush calls Iran a "state sponsor of terror."

Then what?

Go

Then what?

Go

Then what?

Go

Then what?

Go

Can't figure out what happened there..........

" title="" class="" />

Rover reaches first stop inside Victoria Crater

NASA's Mars rover Opportunity has arrived at its first stop inside an expansive crater, where it is poised to reach out and touch what may be the ancient remains of the red planet's surface, mission managers said Wednesday.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21013531/
===========

When I first saw this, I thought it was about Karl Rover - on "the red planet" no less.

can't link to u tube? hello hq.

Some thoughts on The War  (you mean it continues until we drop the atom bombs)?

I couldn't help but notice that the sailors and infantry and airmen seemed to know better how to proceed, while the *planners* safely away from the action hadn't a clue.  Omaha Beach (which made me cry) was a good example of not following orders and taking the initiative.  And not all generals graduate at the top of their class.  No one even considered low clouds or bad weather or the massive German line of defense.  It all looks so easy and good on paper, doesn't it Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rummy?  The guys on the ground and at sea knew what to do.   They were slaughtered for lack of competent leadership IMO.

It was also heartbreaking to see the Japanese jumping off cliffs and swimming out to sea rather than be captured.  They thought we were the barbarians and in today's world, I would have to agree. 

The whole series was mesmerizing and the music was genius.

Do we have any footage from Iraq that even begins to show the *war*?  Oh we see s/o kick in a door, but how many maimed and dead Americans and Iraqis do we see?  We need to see that.  We need to get the hell outta the ME. We need the truth! 

18.

Tom, Lindorff believes that if there are mass defections, it might induce the Democratic Establishment to start doing what their base wants, rather than sucking up to the mythical indies and "centrists" who are supposed to help them win the 08 elections. Worked well for Kerry, didn't it?

Makes sense to me.

Republicans leaving the party in SWARMS:   Evangelicals sliding to Democrats...Senators NOT seaking re-election...  It's a GREAT DAY! : )

Biden's idea will work - he had to 'adjust' it a little, but that's alright.  A 'soft partition' would be the best thing... because it's already happened.  It would be like Washington, Oregon and Montana.   Same difference - Oregonian's (Sunni) say "come visit, spend your money, then LEAVE!".   Montanans (Shi'ite) say "what are you doing here and when are you leaving".  Washingtonians (Kurds)  say -- "How are you - need a job?". : )  A KICK in the arse of Bush and Republicans who insist there will be genocide....so we have to stay.

Turkey Defends Ties with Iran: Turkey once again defended energy ties with Iran and Russia, despite U.S. official calls on Turkey to seek alternatives such as agreeing with other regional suppliers..

And the Bush finds himself ALL alone again - with the mainstream media, that is.  When will Murdoch and crew figure out that 75% of the people aren't buying it and - they would make a HELL of a lot more money - if they switched to the good side. : )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGtCiDfcIos

amazing. mellissa etheridge at live earth. watch it.

31. The genius of Ken Burns is that by faithfully chronicling the events of WWII, he has produced just about the most powerful ant-war statement ever made!

protest, go out and scream, "I am mad as hell and not going to take it anymore"!!

Take a close look at the poll from the debate.  Clinton leads in all sorts of leadership and c##p, yet also leads in "rehearsed answers" and "not answering the question."

Please tell me what's wrong with the minds of people who take these polls.

Why would people think that it's good to have a prez who equivocates, filibusters and has pat answers?  We already have that.

I have little or no faith in the voters to can't see who Clinton really is.  The poll is so illogical, my head did a 360. I gave the evening to Dodd.

The sheeple are again going to vote for the worst possible person; and I believe it'll begin, and end,  in IA.   IMO

part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI8nyOqHakQ

watch Melissa and you will be inspired. it will take your breath away.

Take a close look at the poll from the debate.  Clinton leads in all sorts of leadership and c##p, yet also leads in "rehearsed answers" and "not answering the question."

Please tell me what's wrong with the minds of people who take these polls.

Why would people think that it's good to have a prez who equivocates, filibusters and has pat answers?  We already have that.

I have little or no faith in the voters to can't see who Clinton really is.  The poll is so illogical, my head did a 360. I gave the evening to Dodd.

The sheeple are again going to vote for the worst possible person; and I believe it'll begin, and end,  in IA.   IMO

18.Tom Bearse

"And the way to do that is to join the 'I Quit the Party' movement!"
Then what?
================

I guess this is Huron John's counterpart to Christine Todd Whitman's "It's My Party, too" movement. The only way to save the party is to kill it. Sounds like "I killed John Lennon because I loved him"

Bloggie  must like my post so much, it repeated it.  LOL

John wrote "Lindorff believes that if there are mass defections, it might induce the Democratic Establishment to start doing what their base wants, rather than sucking up to the mythical indies and ‘centrists’ who are supposed to help them win the 08 elections. Worked well for Kerry, didn't it?

No, but hardly worse than it worked for Ralph Nader in 2000, who can get into the 2008 presidential sweepstakes now because, once again, the two parties are Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

Wait, I know what you’re thinking. Nader didn’t cause Gore to lose in 2000, because he drew voters equally from Republicans and Democrats. That must be so because, naturally, there are Republicans right now encouraging fellow voters to sign up with Nader just like Lindorff.

32. Sam Ross

Biden's idea will work - he had to 'adjust' it a little, but that's alright.

...Sunni) say "come visit, spend your money, then LEAVE!". Montanans (Shi'ite) say "what are you doing here and when are you leaving". Washingtonians (Kurds) say -- "How are you - need a job?". : )...

=================
You got it, Sam. It is not about division, as much it is about people having the peace of mind that they have their own territory. That's what will stop the fear and violence, not the "separation" per se.

seashell , thank you for your insight here today. excellent.

watch mellissa. she will inspire u more.

A caller from Impeachflorida.org (?), just called the Ed Schultz show and talked about having started the group 3 weeks ago in her living room. she had 200 people in OJ's driveway, because that's where the media was. They told them that their signs were asking drivers to honk in favor of impeachment, and the media somehow reported that they were honking for OJ.

She also said she was happy that Kucinich may introduce an emergency bill (or whatever) to impeach. That's a bill or res. any of them can introduce in case of an emergency.
Has anyone heard this, and when may he do it?

once again, the two parties are Tweedledum and Tweedledee

No, just tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dumber

take your pick as to which is which

31.seashell :-)

It was also heartbreaking to see the Japanese jumping off cliffs and swimming out to sea rather than be captured. They thought we were the barbarians and in today's world, I would have to agree...

=============
One good point Ahmedinejab made that got lost in the milieu, is that American hegemony and imperialism started with the end of the World War.

I might add, we were probably the only major industrial power with our factories and infrastructure intact. This worked tremendously in our favor as a world supplier of everything, while the other countries rebuilt, but added to our sense of hubris in the long run.

In case you missed it------------

WaPo reports:

Democrats' anger has built for weeks over their failure to end the war in Iraq. When Defense Secretary Bob Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace arrived on Capitol Hill yesterday, the lid came off.

Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W.Va), Chairman of the Appropriations Committee, didn't just harangue the two men. He did so in triplicate.

"Funding for the war in Iraq will exceed 600 billion--billion!billion!--dollars!" the 89-year-old lawmaker bellowed, pointing his finger wildly while Gates picked at his cuticles.

"All of this for a war--a war! a war!--that General Petraeus, two weeks ago, could not say had made Americans safer!"

"A long-term presence could cost well in excess of 2 trillion--2 trillion! Yes, you heard me--2 trillion!"

Byrd's angry theatrics made for a performance reminiscent of Al Pacino in "Scent of a Woman." And Byrd did Pacino one better. He invited the audience in the room to join him in heckling the witnesses, creating a responsive Greek chorus.

Byrd: "Are we really seeking progress toward a stable, secure Iraq?"

Chorus: "No!"

Byrd: "Is our continuing occupation encouraging the Iraqi people to step up?"

Chorus: "No!"

Byrd: "Are Iraq's leaders doing the hard work necessary?"

Chorus: "No!"

Emboldened. two-dozen hecklers in the audience from the antiwar group Code Pink continued to shout at the witnesses and wave signs for the better part of an hour. Finally, after Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) challenged Pace on his view that homosexuality is immoral, the hearing collapsed as the hecklers shouted down the nation's top military officer.

"This hearing is adjourned!" Byrd shouted, hammering his gavel violently. An aide whispered in Byrd's ear. "This hearing is suspended! he corrected.

During the melee, Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) turned with ferocity on Harkin for raising the subject. "You should be ashamed," Gregg said.

"I don't need any lectures from you!" Harkin answered.

When the proceedings resumed, minus two dozen pink-clad demonstrators, Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) felt the need to "go on record with how disturbed I am about the conduct that occurred here. She added: "Such tension, such chaos, such disrespect."

Perhaps, but it capped something of a revival for Byrd. In April, he had identified himself as "Popeye the Sailor Man" and delivered a 15-minute discussion of his dog at a Senate hearing. In June, he had found it necessary to deliver a speech on the Senate floor objecting to reports that "I am at death's door."

But this week, Byrd impressed colleagues with a fervent antiwar speech on the Senate floor Monday. On Tuesday senators past and present unveiled a portrait of Byrd and reminisced about his days as Senate majority leader.

Arriving for yesterday's hearing, Byrd found the Code Pink hecklers already verbally assaulting Pace and Gates--"Used-car salesmen! Stop funding war crimes!"--but he let them continue for a few minutes before employing his gavel. He then began his own heckling about the administration's $190 billion funding request for what he called "the nefarious infernal war in Iraq."

"Thank you! Thank you!" the pink hecklers cried.

"I am disappointed," Byrd said as if the witnesses were children. "This committee will not--N-O-T, not! --rubber- stamp every request." Theatrically, he drew out his words: "Trillionnnn." "Breathing roommmm."

The triple assault continued: Costs "will ultimately be borne by whom? Whom? Whom? he demanded. And: "Mark Twain--Mark Twain! Mark Twain!--once said 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.'" The chorus cheered him on with chants of "shame" and "woo hoo."

"This senator--yes, this man from the hill country!--believes that it is time for a thorough evaluation of the Bush war in Iraq," Byrd declared.

"Amen!" the chorus answered.

After some time, Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) tried to get Byrd's attention. "Our witnesses before this committee are entitled to be heard," he reminded the chairman.

"Let there be order," Byrd concurred. But there wasn't--and he didn't seem to mind.

"'Mission accomplished' has turned into a commitment to have our grandchildren patrolling Baghdad into the middle of this century!" the chairman chided.

The chorus laughed.

"Instead of a coalition of the willing what we really have is a coalition of contractors!" he admonished.

"That's right!" the chorus agreed.

And so it continued until Harkin--assisted by "boos" from the hecklers--asked the soon-to-retire Pace about his "very hurtful" views on gays in the military. Pace repeated his view that homosexuality is "counter to God's law."

With that, the chorus erupted, shouting down Pace with a series of chants. Even Byrd decided he had "tolerated all I can stand" and ordered the room cleared.

"The Iraq people have a right to their home!" ond of the hecklers shouted as police led her away.

"Senators," the chairman retorted, "have a right to have a hearing."

by Dana Milbank

37. seashell :-)

Clinton leads in all sorts of leadership and c##p, yet also leads in "rehearsed answers" and "not answering the question."

Please tell me what's wrong with the minds of people who take these polls....

================
They are more enamored with "the first woman president" than the content of her character. The pollsters probably have leading questions in a biased formation.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22352...

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new thread