Howard Dean, Myanmar monks, Moveon.org are first -- d*rn Congress is LAST.


64.

Tom Bearse
Wed, 09/26/07
2:03 pm

LOL -- Once I wrote off to Pittsburgh symphony and got a lil plastic pickle -- guess Heinz subsidizes them.

1. I am compelled to explain that the Pittsburgh symphony plastic pickle was a pin. I never wore it tho.

62.

Indy Steve -

I must admit I have to agree with you on all these "sense of" bills in the U.S. Senate that pass. 

It's like the Senate members don't have any real power now (hmhhh, I wonder what branch does have it?, could it be the monarchy, err executive ?) and are just flaying about by passing (es)sense of power bills (I can see why Obama missed all three roll call votes):

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_110_1.htm

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 1st Session (2007)

VoteDateIssueQuestionResultDescription0034926-Sep H.R. 1585 On the Amendment S.Amdt. 3017 Agreed to Kyl Amdt. No. 3017 as Modified; To express the sense of the Senate regarding Iran.0034826-Sep H.R. 1585 On the Amendment S.Amdt. 2997 Agreed to Biden Amdt. No. 2997 as Modified; To express the sense of Congress on federalism in Iraq.    0034420-Sep H.R. 1585 On the Amendment S.Amdt. 2934 Agreed to Cornyn Amdt. No. 2934; To express the sense of the Senate that General David H. Petraeus, Commanding General, Multi-National Force-Iraq, deserves the full support of the Senate and strongly condemn personal attacks on the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all members of the United States Armed Forces.

Annilow -

Good to know that Romney is not anywhere on your voting consideration list (no matter if even Clinton and Bayh end up the dem voters choice).

Hey! Annilow...easy on the plastic pickle pins. :)

Growing up in Pittsburgh during THEIR days, it was a thrill to get a plastic pickle pin. We used to get a pickle pin when on school outtings (oh field trips is what they were called, right?) We'd go to the pickle factories. Pittsburgh, Home of Heinz; catsup, pickles, Klondikes from Isleys, Dairy Farms field trips........auuhhhh, the memories. And of course, the Steel Mills.....although, we didn't tour those. But my family all worked them.

You know, they've turned in some of the old Heinz Buildings in to lofts. Funky. Great locations, too.

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59. Indy Steve

I read the amendment so your criticism is unfounded. It does nothing to get us out of Iraq. A "sense of the Senate" is nothing but a toothless statement. Just like the Moveon condemnation. Waste of time.

=====================

I think you are being a bit cynical. If "waste of time" or a Biden ego trip, is all you can think of, that's off-the-cuff, penny wise, pound foolish, and cynical.

It does not compare well to the MoveOn condemnation, not anywhere near, in scope or in nature.

It IS non-binding, but when 3/4 of the Senate votes bipartisan on a policy that suggests a monumental alternative to the present "stay the course" in Iraq, that makes it a very significant statement.

Probably the most positively significant policy matter statement to date. The President (both now and/or in the future,) voters of this country, and the Iraqi government, will all take note of this statement, as well as the media.

It has the potential to push Maliki to enforce Federalization rather than uphold or deny it in favor of status quo sectarian domination of the central government.

The Biden-Boxer-Brownback amendment resolution passing by 75 ayes also sets the stage for the feasibility of overturning a Bush veto of the matter should their be a showdown in Iraq with the central government verses the Sunnis and Kurds desire for their own semi-autonomy.

DANIEL ROONEY

While your cartoons are amusing, I believe too many - without relating to any statements of a serious nature - tends to abuse the bandwidth of the blog for dialup users.

8.

Fred

We shall see just resolute those Repug votes are after a veto. I'll be surprised if they vote to override a veto.

In any event. the whole amendment is a useless waste of time since it isn't binding and we can't tell Iraq how to handle the situation anyway.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/arti...


Defense stocks hit new highs
September 26, 2007: 01:29 PM EST


Sep. 26, 2007 (Thomson Financial delivered by Newstex) --

WASHINGTON (AP) - Defense stocks on Wednesday hit new highs ahead of Defense Secretary Robert Gates' visit to Capitol Hill to request roughly $45 billion in additional funding to cover military costs in Iraq and Afghanistan in 2008.

The AMEX Defense Index, which tracks 14 major defense company stocks, rose 14.25 to a high of 1,686.72 in afternoon trading. Since last year, the index has risen roughly 47 percent, outperforming the broader S&P 500 index, which has climbed nearly 15 percent over the same period.
..................

IMHO, this is an important piece of work:

Dan Rather's Magnum Opus
    By William Rivers Pitt
    t r u t h o u t | Columnist

    Wednesday 26 September 2007

The willful collusion between CBS management and the Bush administration, offered by Rather to frame his accusations, illuminate an insidious, grotesque, and altogether deadly alignment of circumstances hiding in plain sight before the entire American populace. An explanation for why the legitimate fears and anxious uncertainties of the people are never soothed or clarified by mainstream news outlets like CBS, but are instead methodically aggravated and intentionally amplified by those outlets, begins to take shape in light of Rather's inside-view revelations. . .

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/printer_092607A.shtml

I see that Howard Dean is on tonight in the 7:00 hour with Chris Matthews before the debate.   For the first time I think we probably won't watch.    If Matthews pins him down on things Congress has done he will go along with agreeing.

I once had hope for our party, but I really don't know now.  There is not one single person speakng up for the major part of the base.  No one.

The silence is deafening.   So tonight will be a first.

14.Joan* In*Florida

We shall see just resolute those Repug votes are after a veto. I'll be surprised if they vote to override a veto
=======================

It is at least an expose of where the sentiments are in the Senate on Federalization. And the result are fantastic. I don't know why you see this in such a negative way.

Of course I wish it were law, but to call it a "waste of time" when the resulting vote is so encouraging is cynical to say the least. Sorry to disagree with you Joan. You know I like you.

As far as overriding a veto. I agree that if that were the case the Republicans would be more reticent to vote for it, but I can only see the momentum for this idea moving in a positive direction. The vote not only gives it life and feasibility but hehooves the media to give it more attention as a viable new alternative for a way forward, and out, of Iraq, leaving a peaceful, stable state behind.

14.Joan* In*Florida

...and we can't tell Iraq how to handle the situation anyway

=================

Joan,

There is language in the original BBB resolution, and reinforcing language amended to it, that distinctly and specifically states that Federalization [aka "partition"] is the prerogative of the Iraqi people and NOT something we will, or can, impose upon them. It is merely a supportive statement.

From 3/4 of the U.S. Senate, such a supportive statement is not "useless."

Biden himself has also recently said:

"And third, the cornerstone of his proposal, is to allow the development of semi-autonomous regions that would give local politicians control over police, jobs, education, and government services. The plan would seek international involvement to bring the restructuring about. “We can’t do it ourselves. We don’t have the credibility to do it,” he [Biden] said."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/pol...

floridagal wrote "The silence is deafening. So tonight will be a first."

Don’t do it. Don’t let some stupid politicians trying to get reelected make you throw in the towel. Dr. Dean wasn’t offering a panacea with his campaign, he was offering a path. It’s a long, hard struggle. He didn’t promise otherwise.

I think of the triumph of the Little Rock Nine who attended Central High with the 101st Airborne Division as an armed escort. It would probably have been easier to think of it as too much trouble to insinuate themselves into a place where they were hated and unwanted. With a democratic process, perseverance is the most crucial element, because nothing is accomplished without compromise.

FROM THE BIDEN WEBSITE

..."For the first time in this incredibly divisive national debate we've been having about Iraq, a strong bi-partisan majority of senators – including fully half of the Republicans – has voted to change course," said Sen. Biden. "It's the first time there is some real hope that we can put ourselves on a course to leave Iraq without leaving chaos behind."

Sen. Biden's amendment also has 17 sponsors: Joe Biden (D-DE), Sam Brownback (R-KS), Barbara Boxer (D-CA), Arlen Specter (R-PA), John Kerry (D-MA), Gordon Smith (R-OR), Bill Nelson (D-FL), Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX), Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Blanche Lincoln (D-AR), Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) Harry Reid (D-NV), Diane Feinstein (D-CA), Sherrod Brown (D-OH), Ken Salazar (D-CO) and Tom Carper (D-DE).

"Slowly but surely, we're building a consensus in the Congress around a way forward in Iraq. That's significant, because it's the only real way to end this war," said Sen. Biden. "Everyone agrees that there is no military solution in Iraq, only a political solution....

http://joebiden.com/newscenter/pressrele...

Fred,
The most important thing is it gets outside forces in and limits our role.

I would think it would be hard for Bush to veto it as there is good consensus in the Senate to do it.

The Iraq people will have their say and it will start a dialog that may get the shooting stopped enough to start talking.

I don't see any negatives as it does two main things...
1 - Gets others in and puts us in the background
2 - Gets the locals to start talking with each other.

What the implementation is (nationalistic or seperatistic) is not our call but it may get some kind of movement toward attempting a resolution.

Fred,
What provisions were made to keep Kurdistan from being swallowed up?

Now that Fred has quit being a bandwidth abuser he can say that, Daniel.

 Youtubes are what screws me on dial-up if they aren't just a clicky link

the Biden Amendment has the same force as the "transition troops out" resolution of a year ago

but it is a step even if a small one

If you read the resolution carefully, and the comments by other Senators...
The main thing the Repubs want is enough quiet to get the oil contracts signed.
The Kurds are making agreements with Hunt and Iran for their oil and gas resources.
There is talk about the Iraq parliment declaring these contracts void because they do not tie into an unnamed over-riding strategy.
There is nothing to declare the survivabity of each section.
The Kurds have already completed their ethnic cleaning.
I am for anything that stops the violence; if even for a minute.

Al Gore

Interview coming up on Situation  room (according to Blister).

We will be bombing Iran soon.

A Kyl-Lieberman Iran Ammendment passed.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/#6365...


The Kyl-Lieberman Iran amendment -- which ratchets up the confrontation with Iran by calling for the designation of its armed forces a terrorist organization responsible for killing U.S. troops -- just passed overwhelmingly, 76-22.

Of the Dem Presidential candidates, Hillary voted for the measure, Joe Biden and Chris Dodd opposed it, and Barack Obama missed the vote. On the GOP side, John McCain missed the vote.

23.dog soldier

Fred, What provisions were made to keep Kurdistan from being swallowed up?

=========
Not familiar with that possible issue. I'm not sure what you are talking about - do you have a link where that case has been made with respect to the Federalization of Iraq. The country is still united, it is not "partitioning" in the Israeli-Palestinian context. A "United States of Iraq" would be a better description of the vision put forth thus far.

...more from the truthout article.

   Underscored here, in no uncertain terms, are the grim realities of modern American journalism, realities that have little to do with the original conception of the institution. While a number of the Founders were not especially enamored with the printed slings and arrows of the journalists of their day, they were united in the belief that a free and honest press was absolutely necessary to the safety and liberty of the country. "The only security of all," wrote Thomas Jefferson in 1823, "is in a free press."

    American democracy ceases to function when people blither their votes into ballot boxes on the basis of opinions and ideologies that are swaddled in the beggar-rags of ubiquitous disinformation and bewilderingly muddled cant, but such is now and has long been this nation's common plight. Today's "free press," however, bears little resemblance to the conceived constitutional bulwark cherished by the Founders.

    In its place, we now have a tightly-woven confederation of profit-seeking businesses that own virtually every print and broadcast news outlet of significance in the country. There is but scant allegiance to the truth found within these outlets, because their foremost priority when reporting on most issues of national consequence is to protect the interests of those parent companies and their advertisers.

    If a parent company is heavily involved in the manufacture and sale of weaponry to the Pentagon, for example, that company's pet news outlet will skew its coverage to cast the most favorable light on a war - and on the politicians and political parties who support it - because that is money in the bank for that parent. There is nothing theoretical in this; NBC, MSNBC and CNBC all championed both the Iraq war and its architects, because they are owned by huge defense contractor General Electric, which has profited enormously from the war.

    Media conglomerates like Time-Warner - whose massive holdings include CNN, HBO, Warner Bros., AOL, Time magazine, People magazine, dozens of other periodicals, film production companies, book publishers and television networks - are utterly incapable of providing objective reports to the American people regarding a broad constellation of significant and pressing issues. CNN is inescapably connected to all of Time-Warner's myriad subsidiaries and affiliates, and to the political affiliations, which guarantee the biggest profits for these entities.

    Thus, many stories on a variety of serious matters (the crippling side-effects of well-hyped but poorly-tested pills, for example, or the abuse of workers in third-world technological sweatshops, or thousands of dead fish rotting downstream from a coal plant, or the deceptions that led to a failed war and thousands of dead American soldiers) almost never tend to see the light of mainstream-newsroom day. This is not called censorship or suppression or collusion or treason in the offices where such decisions are made. This is called sound business practice.

17.

I see that Howard Dean is on tonight in the 7:00 hour with Chris Matthews before the debate.

Thanks floridagal, I can sure use a Dean Dose no matter how small:))

24. Phil Specht

Now that Fred has quit being a bandwidth abuser he can say that, Daniel.
=================

Oh, bull, Phil. You never say anything to Sitka with his silly sarcastic graphics used simply for making fun of me. Much more of that.

25. dog soldier
================

There are certainly some problem that the Kurds have, but I don't know if Federalization really effects these one way or another. Oil contracts controlled by federal government are still respected by the resolution. Federalizing the States (there could be more than three) effects local security police issues, education, marriage laws, revenues, services, etc. more than oil.

First of all, Turkey opposed the Iraq invasion from the start as they could not be bribed and refused to allow US trrops overland passage into Iraq. The reason?
They didn't want to wake up their own Kurds.


http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/glob...

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id...
Everyone may live happily ever after; then again..maybe not

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id...
Iran is shelling the Kurds

http://www.turks.us/article~story~2003011009284518.htm
This is several years old and the reasons may be overcome by events. It didn't look good for the Kurds.

What may save the Kurds is Turkey may want full EU rights more then the Kurds.

21.dog soldier

Fred,
The most important thing is it gets outside forces in and limits our role
===================

Yes I am very happy about that. It may be the first bipartisan vote of any kind that is open to an international forum as the foundation of a political solution - don't see how some here say it is a waste of time.

As usual Fred,
you have the cart before the horse.
There is no guarantee the Iraqis will agree to anything as the main reason the Repubs are going along is they Repubs want Iraq oil and the Iraqis want to keep it fot themselves.
The Federalization is not even close to a done deal.
In fact, any discussion otherwise is ludicrus.
So please stop it.
What the Senate did is a tiny baby step and you sound like a broken record.
It may not very well happen.
There is not one word about implementation. That means how are the Iraqis going to be approached to even consider the idea.

What does Biden think the next plan is?

33. dog soldier

==============
Skimmed these articles, and did searches on: Biden; federalization; federalisation; partition - but came up with nothing and this beweildered by how this would be effected by anything in the Biden plan.

35.dog soldier

==============
I believe your complaint here is outside the parameters of discussion on the Biden Plan, pros and cons.

26.dog soldier
We will be bombing Iran soon.
=================

I'm just glad the "no" s were not worse than 22 Senators.

36,
Has nothing to do with the Biden plan as Biden doesn't address the Kurds specifically. BBB addresses them as part of an agragate. Their specific security provisions are not addressed.

What I gave you are some sense of how difficult it is for the Kurds to survive. BBB has no soverignity provisions.
Iraq has no real Army or militia.
So who is the protector?
The UN? us (right as we can't even do it now).
Or do we do it the capitalist/mafia way?
We bribe the neighbors and make them offers they can't refuse.
Offer them the same things I suggested to gain Pakistan favor; schools... roads... hospitals...power plants...anything to allow Iraq a chance to get this thing off the ground.

Fred,
I read 35 again and it sounded kind of nasty....sorry
I am an implementaiton guy...I don't see those details and without a sense of how it is to be done then I don't see it happenning.
But it gets other countries into the mix and that is a success.
Take it one step at a time.
When folks talk to each other, the shooting dies down a bit.

What the US should do is get the bsll rolling and cease offensive operations for thirty days.
See what happens. The troops can stay on their bases and watch movies. Eat pizza...go to the gym...somke 'em if you got 'em.

The main thing the pressure eases and it allows Iraq to proceed without us killing folks. Also, ban Blackwater from leaving the forts and Green Zone. All truck guards are done by other Arabs. Ask the Saudi's or Egypt to spare a few troops to ride shotgun.

bsll rolling = ball rolling...

Good afternoon good DFA people!
--------
I see Ms. Clinton voted *Yea* for the *Attack Iran* amendment and Mr. Obama didn't vote. I won't be checking off their name on any ballot.

fyi - http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22337...

35. dog soldier

"There is not one word about implementation. That means how are the Iraqis going to be approached to even consider the idea."
======================
That's the whole point. We don't impose this. It is in their Constitution. The Resolution just gives it our moral support.


39. dog soldier
======================

"Biden doesn't address the Kurds specifically."
Is it supposed to?
------------------
This is beyond the scope of Federalization

======================
"BBB has no soverignity provisions"
---------
Like what?
========================

"Iraq has no real Army or militia"
------------------
Don't understand this statement? They have a good army. It is the national police that sucks.
=======================

"The UN? us (right as we can't even do it now).
Or do we do it the capitalist/mafia way?"
-----------------------
Not sure what you mean, but Bosnia only has 600 U.S. soldiers at present and have never been killed, once there was peace.

Way to go Susan Rowe. At this stage - Gore is our last great hope.

Gotta dash.

vb wrote "I won't be checking off their name on any ballot."

Who's getting your vote?

Fred,
Interesting about the Iraq Army.
They are thought of to be totally incompetent and have often killed more of us then them.
But in their defense, they are a more national organization and am sure they resent us. Their quality may suck but so what? It isn't us they may be fighting.

By soverignity...who keeps the neighbors from moving in? Not us...some kind of support needs to be spelled out. Iraq may dsecide to say they will do it themselves...
The militias are seperatist organizations. They are more inclined to support their own "tribe" then the rest of the country.

We are a long, long way from getting to Bosnia. We can start a discussion of why that is an invalid comparison but you can google it as well as me.

Fred,
You are mixing up approach and implementation.
Right now we are at a stalemate. We kill them, they kill us.
We can talk to Mailki and their Parlimanent. Maliki is for seperation and the parliment is for nationalism. So there is a hurdle.
Their Constitution may not come into play as they are quite willing to ignore things as we do as needed.

So first, the ruling folks have to agree. For the sake of discussion, let's suppose they do.
Now the various stakeholder groups need to be involved; malitia leaders, mayors, police officers...etc.
so after much thrashing and more deaths...for the sake of discussion, the other groups just mentioned agree to go along.
Then what?

I gotta go...meeting with vets. I am talking about Patraeus and his troop sell-out.
Should be fun.

later.

Amamanpour's interview with Ahmadinejad was cut to almost nothing.  I missed what Bill was saying on CNN.  Was it important?

We are a banana republic. 

Pelosi's asking bush to PLEASE not veto the childrens' bill.  She's on her knees giving him a you know what.

Kyl/Biden....another non-binding toothless waste of time when they should be impeaching.

WELCOME TO DEMOCRACY--AMERICAN STYLE

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts09252007.html

Police forces have always attracted bullies with authoritative personalities who desire to beat senseless anyone who does not quake in their presence. In the past police could get away with brutalizing blacks but not whites. Today white citizens are as likely as racial minorities to be victims of police brutality.

The police are supreme. The militarization of the police, armed now with military weapons and trained to view the general public as the enemy, against whom "pain compliance" must be used, has placed every American at risk of personal injury and false arrest from our "public protectors."

In "free and democratic America," citizens are in such great danger from police that there are websites devoted to police brutality with online forms to report the brutality.

There is no way to hold police accountable when the president and vice president of the United States, the attorney general, and the Republican Party maintain that the civil liberties and the separation of powers mandated by the US Constitution must be abandoned in order that the executive branch can keep Americans safe from terrorists.

The law makes it impossible for Americans to defend themselves from police brutality. Law and order conservatives have made it a felony with a long prison sentence to "assault a police officer." Assaulting a police officer means that if a police thug intends to beat your brains out with his nightstick and you disarm your assailant, you have "assaulted a police officer." If you are not shot on the spot by his backup, you will be convicted by a "law and order" jury and sent to prison.

No matter how gratuitous and violent the police brutality, a "free" American citizen can defend himself only at the expense, if not of his life, of a long stay in prison. Osama bin Laden must wish that he had such power over Americans.

46.

mary vb

Thanks!

GREAT LETTER TO LEE BOLINGER

http://www.counterpunch.org/ross09252007.html

I'm writing you to express my outrage over your vulgar treatment of President Ahmadinejad yesterday when you invited him to speak at your university. Simple human etiquette of the most primitive and elemental sort, was required in the situation, but you failed to deliver even that. You were obnoxious, insulting and displayed an appalling ignorance of President Ahmadinejad, Iran and politics, not to mention the rules that govern "civilized" human conduct (arguably "primitive" conduct is even more governed by politeness and elevated rules of conduct).

Moreover, in a context that calls for objectivity, investigation, open mindedness and a willingness to learn and exchange ideas, you displayed a remarkable absence of any of those qualities. Instead, you showed yourself to be one with the bullying, abusive, ignorant and arrogant people who unfortunately govern our country at the moment and who are attempting to induce a phobic and neurotic xenophobia comparable only to what Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin inculcated in their countries during those moments of greatest darkness in human history. The irony of the situation is that you displayed all those qualities of which you accused President Ahmadinejad. Where was that display of that "great tradition of openness" in your callous, close minded speech? Your speech shows you to "exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator" and worse: a bully, a man who invites a guest into his house, then abuses him before a cheering crowd. MORE AT LINK...........

Who's getting your vote?

My advice would be "write in Dennis"

The coup is complete.  bush now has all three branches of gov't plus the fourth estate in his immature cheerleader's hands.

Perhaps Burma is teaching us a lesson.

Matt Renner | Bush Administration, DOJ Blocking Iraq Fraud Suits
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092607J.shtml
Matt Renner reports for Truthout, "Peter Keisler, the acting US attorney general, covered up evidence of alleged widespread contracting fraud in Iraq by preventing whistleblowers' complaints from being investigated, according to a prominent fraud attorney."

Neither Clinton nor Obama will get my vote either. 

Gore was great on Blitzkrieg and I think he may run if it looks like Clinton will be nominated in IA.  I don't think we can just blame the sheeple either.  I don't like a system that says that Clinton can get enuf votes in a big field but would lose one to one....something wrong with that system.  That means that both Obama and Edwards might be the favorites but somehow Clinton will win the nomination.  Is that correct?

Sounds downright corrupt to me but what do I know? 

48. dog soldier

"We are a long, long way from getting to Bosnia"

We could be there tomorrow, if we decide to go that way. There is little to compare Iraq to Bosnia, except that the solution to Bosnia was Federalizing into ethnic areas, while maintaining a single country again. It is our last best hope for peace in Iraq.

It is the National Police that sucks. The Army is not that bad and reportedly getting better. Most of the sectarians militias moolighting are in the National police by day, from what I understand. It is what does more to foment sectarian resentment against the central government than anything else.

There is no need for Federal police in a Federal system. The [ethnic] States will each have their own police. Only a Federal Army is needed mostly for border patrol.

49.dog soldier

Maliki is for seperation and the parliment is for nationalism.

===========
I don't know where you are getting your information, but according to everything Biden & co. say, the Parliament approved a Federalization [separation] Plan (which had already been in their Constitution) to take effect this January. I don't know how Maliki feels. Have not heard if he has a position. Would appreciate it if you have a link for that.

58.seashell :-)

Neither Clinton nor Obama will get my vote either.
===============

I wonder if the Lieberman-Kyl, Hillary's being for it, Obama not voting (there was another important vote that morning, BBB, he should have been there) and Biden voting against it, will make much of a dynamic in the primary among the core.

I have been thinking of Obama as a second choice, after Biden, but now I am hoping more for Biden to take off.

I wonder if Boxer was joking when she said this.

Boxer says "We have to work with the Iraq we have, not with the Iraq we wish we had." 

Update on Myanmar

http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3652538

Please consider lighting a candle, if you haven't already...

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=MONKS 

52.seashell :-)

Kyl/Biden....another non-binding toothless waste of time when they should be impeaching
====================

Might agree they are de jure "toothless" but they both have a de facto importance and what's more important is they allowed the members to express their POV while minimizing responsibity for consequences.

With both I was glad they were not "de jure" votes: With L-Kyl it is obvious; with Biden, had it had teeth, not only would Republican be more reticent to express themselves, but since there is so much false rumor and inneudo about BBB, there is the danger that if we made it a law "de jure" some would fear it to be a forced imposition on the Iraqi people, which is against the spirit of BBB.

Once BBB has had more press and is better understood, it will be better able to pass legislation as policy.

Clinton or Obama

I'd vote for either!

hardball says that Obama must attack Sen Clinton.  I think they are wrong.  On the war...everyone has a crytalized opinion; no one will be swayed by Obama saying Clinton was wrong ...

takin a bath bbl

Hardball reporting that Clinton is now leading in IA.  CNN reported that she has a 23 point lead in NH.

Obama is being a good boy since he's slotted for number two.

FIX IN LONG AGO. 

IA and NH could change that.  I thought NH was progressive.  Do they even pay attention in these two states? Can these people even read?  Good grief!

GORE!!!!!   

Gore

::smashing heads into desk::

G@d love him, but he hasn't shown me that he is running.

In other words ::again, smashing head into desk::

Dean up next on Hardball

WOOT!!!

Dean dean dean dean dean dean dean

!

!

!

!

Candle page for NORDY = http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=NORDY

{ { { Paine } } }

mary vb
Wed, 09/26/07
5:29 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Remember my question about the vulgar talk sho host in the early 80s in LA?  It was Wally George.....................hs on you tube and IMO was the start of the downward trend of right wing talk shows tha belittled the left......................

RUN AL RUN,  fer cryin' out loud!!!

GORE/DEAN 2008:  The intelligent alternative to partisan bickering

There is a new thread.  And Panera bread makes great salads.

{{{ listener }}}

new thread

and remember the candidates should not take advise from the pundits

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22343#comment-1123471