Firstness be upon the Deans and BFA Training

WAGE PEACE

Go Dennis GO!!

http://hannah.smith-family.com

Hello, all, Find an event and plug-in. Full court press.

http://declarationofpeace.org/ 

Sheri,

Any chance you could front page this. It is nationwide action.

since Monica has provided a link to a view of the HOWARDLY AWARD, I'll present one to Kevin Powell for his A effort getting elected to the School Board on Tuesday.

wOOt!

The calendar is filling up. Pork Chops at the Park with our State Rep. 15th, Harkin Steak Fry, regular second Monday night County Central Committe mtg., and now DFA Night School on Tues.

whether I make any or all depends on progress chopping, I missed the Hillary House Party last night

I missed the Hillary House Party last night

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, dang, Phil. . . . .  :) 

The calendar is filling up. Pork Chops at the Park with our State Rep. 15th, Harkin Steak Fry,

So are the arteries.....

8. LOL Did you catch a diary written on Kos today? Pretty funny.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/14/...

Sitka
Fri, 09/14/07
6:05 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ya beat me to it...................maybe one year at that thing, they could cater out some Chinese?

Good evening, BFA!

Just scrolling through the headlines across the water and am not sure whether to be happy or sad at the following. It's true that the area is booming, but that is a mixed blessing.

===============
Geneva plans for major growth
The metropolitan region of Geneva, stetching across the borders of Vaud and France, will see its population grow to a million by 2030.

The metropolitan region of Geneva is set to grow to a population of a million people in less than 25 years, planners say. Robert Cramer, the cantonal cabinet minister in charge of land management, laid out a broad blueprint this week on how to manage the coming change. The region – which stretches in a horse-shoe around Lake Geneva to include the Nyon area and the French border areas west to Bellegarde and east to Thonon – currently has a population of 780,000.

To accommodate the growth will take infrastructure demands that should see financing of SFr3.5 billion from Bern, said Cramer, a member of the Green party. The challenge will be to find the space to accommodate the extra 220,000 people in the “franco-valdo-genevan” region that is economically centered around Geneva. Authorities in France and Switzerland have agreed that each country will each share the accommodation needs roughly 50-50, although the bulk of the new jobs, an estimated 70 percent, will be created in Geneva.

[...]
http://www.tdg.ch/pages/home/tribune_de_...(contenu)/132205

10. At my wedding, my mother in law insisted I have the reception at her house, even though I was arranging the food/bev/entertainment, but I agreed and still managed to have Szechuan (Hot and Spicy Chinese) as the food and had it delivered. LOL

Some fun with Will Pitt at DU, who waxes forth on different species of RW minds, assuming that they have them, which does take a leap of faith.

================
Oh Fa Chrissake...
The Different Species of Right-Wing Mind
Posted by WilliamPitt in General Discussion
Fri Sep 14th 2007, 05:56 PM
There are several species.

[...]
http://journals.democraticunderground.co...

From a previous thread

52.

seashell :-)
Fri, 09/14/07
12:59 am


I love the picture of your friendly backyard buddy. What a delightful friend you have. Such splendid company for you to enjoy.

Bravo for CNN's Michael Ware, who will probably become the new Peter Arnett for the RW crowd, as he deconstructs putz's speech point by point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtqFKx23m...

Here are the DU comments on the video, if you're interested.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

Judy, will the extra couple hundred K be former Americans? :)

I have a question. If things improved in Iraq, does that mean we can finally leave? Or if things improved in Iraq that means we have to stay?

If we have to stay in Iraq if things are better, does that mean we can leave if things are not better?


?

Ya beat me to it...................maybe one year at that thing, they could cater out some Chinese?

I think chinese food -- or at least the commercial American kind --  is as bad as it gets for the heart. 

Thanks, Sheri!

Susan, yes, he's adorable, yet I miss, terribly, the real country..with deer and wild turkeys and rabbits and owls...and other various and sundry creatures of wonder and joy.   

I've been mulling over how bush is gonna ensure that the wars continue even if a dem is elected.   This is what he said obliquely last night and the CMWs are not picking it up.  Perhaps he's counting on Hillary.  I heard Kerry blah blahing about how they don't have the votes to overturn a filibuster....

That said,  I will call Obey on Monday.  You would think the dems could have come up with something by now.   I think Pelosi and Reid have been the biggest obstructionists in the party when it comes to ending the occupation. 

I'm sure floridagal will find this one interesting.

Son Of Sen. Bill Nelson Gets Probation With A Few Conditions

POSTED: 11:48 am EDT September 14, 2007
UPDATED: 5:51 pm EDT September 14, 2007
ORLANDO, Fla. -- "The son of U.S. Senator Bill Nelson avoided jail time but still has to stay out of bars, stay away from alcohol and undergo counseling after being sentenced by a Florida judge Friday morning.

Charles Nelson was convicted in June of shoving an Orlando police officer after his father's re-election party in 2006.

A longtime family friend told the judge that it's been difficult for the senator's son, growing up in the shadow of what the friend called "a giant." But Circuit Judge Stan Strickland said he wasn't going to treat any Nelson any better or any worse than anyone else.

Charles "Billy" Nelson was fingerprinted after the judge put a conviction of a misdemeanor for being drunk on his record. But the judge withheld the conviction for the felony battery on a law enforcement officer, so Nelson will be able to vote.

Nelson won't go to jail or prison, but he will be on probation for two years. He cannot drink alcohol or frequent bars during that time. Nelson also must undergo alcohol counseling."
http://www.wftv.com/news/14114818/detail...

...and making sure he could still vote by not giving him a conviction for felony battery is the same treatment everyone else gets? I don't think soooo.

I guess a feeling of entitlement and being above rules and law run in the family.

This Sunday, Senator Joe Biden will appear on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace.

For more information, click here for your local listings.

Just a quick update on my passport renewal. I sent it in Aug 23rd spent $30 for overnight mail and $60 to 'exepedite'. It's been 3 1/2 weeks now and the travel.state.gov website says that 2-3 weeks 'should' be time for expedited. I called Cong Stearns office on Wednesday. Too bad I wrote him all those nastygrams over the years. Anyway, 'they' (certainly not the man) said they would send a 'congressional letter of inquiry' and that should get it here (the passport) in 2 (more) weeks. SO, $90 extra and a congressional inquiry can't get you a passport these days, even tho there was a headline a week or so ago saying they had caught up with their backlog and things are back to normal. I'll keep you posted LOL! PS -- I'm trying very hard not to reach for my tinfoil hat here -- you don't s'pose Repugs get their passports faster do you?? Think the Swiss run their passport office like this?

Well, the biggest obstructionists are the blue dogs, but Pelosi could work around and with them..............

September 14, 2007



Linda Perrone
3 Kimberli Court
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87508

Dear Linda:

This week, three reports on the situation in Iraq have told
the Congress and the country what most of us already know. After
four and a half years of war and more than six months of "surge,"
Iraq is no closer to the political change it needs to achieve lasting
stability. At the same time, President Bush has shown that he still
has no plan to change his failed strategy. Most amazingly, last
night he outlined a plan for an endless occupation of Iraq.

The American military is the best-trained, best-equipped
fighting force in the history of the world. When President Bush
instituted his "surge" strategy, he took an unsustainable number of
troops from our force and placed them in a limited number of Iraqi
areas. Most Americans realized that this strategy could produce
short-term, limited reductions in some forms of violence. The real
question, however, is whether it would also produce an overall
reduction in violence and move Iraqis towards reform and political
reconciliation, as President Bush said it would in January.
Unfortunately, it has not.

Levels of violence in Iraq remain startlingly high, and
claims of progress are simply not backed up by the brutal facts we
see coming from the battlefield. While the Bush Administration
claims that the escalation strategy has reduced overall violence, the
Associated Press reported 1,809 civilian deaths in August, more
than in any other month this year. Reports also indicate that this
summer has been the deadliest so far for U.S. troops in Iraq. With
over 260 losses, U.S. casualties in Iraq are 56 percent higher this
year than at this time in 2006. So how can the president paint such
a rosy assessment? The Washington Post has shown that the
administration is "cherry picking" statistics to paint a false picture
of Iraqi security. To downplay the number of sectarian deaths,
some intelligence reports have decided to classify all deaths with
unknown motivations as non-sectarian and exclude deaths by car
bomb from officials statistics. To read the facts for yourself, see

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/05/AR2007090502466.html?nav=rss_politics/congress

and

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/13/AR2007091302710.html.

As disturbing as the continued violence in Iraq is the lack
of promised political progress. One message came across loud and
clear from the three reports released this week: Iraq has not taken
the political steps that Congress and the American people
demanded and were promised at the beginning of the surge. When
the president issued his report card on the situation in Iraq, he
concluded that the Iraqi government had failed to meet ten of the
18 benchmarks designed to measure political and military
progress. This week, the independent Government Accountability
Office (GAO) reported that even the president's disappointing
report exaggerated the degree of progress. The GAO report shows
that Iraq has met only three benchmarks.

Another report, issued by retired General James Jones,
indicates that the Iraqi national police force is "dysfunctional" and
recommends that the force be disbanded and rebuilt from scratch.
The surge was supposed to enable the Iraqi security forces to stand
up so that American troops could stand down. Instead, as Generals
Jones and Petraeus have noted, it has allowed the Iraqi government
to avoid making the tough political choices that could lead to
lasting stability.

The three reports released this week further confirm that
there is no military solution to Iraq's problems. Our troops have
done all they can, fighting courageously every step of the way,
battling amidst civil war and sectarian violence in a country where
they are in constant danger. But their heroism cannot produce
stability in Iraq without political progress. Large majorities in the
U.S. and Iraq acknowledge that our troops have accomplished all
that they can in this fight. The remaining work that must be done to
stabilize their country is dependent on Iraqi officials and the Iraqi
people.

Unfortunately, as we heard last night, President Bush plans
to leave 130,000 troops in Iraq indefinitely. That is the same
number of troops as were fighting there before the surge. A war
without end is not an acceptable option. We need a new direction,
and in his speech President Bush only offered more of the same.
As even General Petraeus acknowledges, the surge has overtaxed
our armed forces and weakened America's ability to respond to
threats elsewhere in the world. And equally troubling, during his
Congressional testimony, General Petraeus could not agree with
the President's fanciful assertion that the war in Iraq is making
America more secure.

To protect our military and our country, I once again renew
my call to responsibly redeploy our troops from Iraq. I will
continue to urge the president and my colleagues in Congress to
finally face the reality that Iraq needs a political solution, not a
military one. We must begin to address the dire readiness state of
our military and refocus on fighting terrorism around the world.
My thoughts, hopes and efforts will remain with our troops and
their families at this difficult time. They continue to bear the real
burden of this war, and for that our nation thanks them.



Very Truly Yours,

Tom Udall
Member of Congress



+++++++++++++++++

And what are you prepared to do about it??????

OOOOOOpppps.

95. Sitka

I took FRED's paraphrase to mean that Hunt was saying the "core" people are out of step with the leaders.

But of course, it could only be the other way around
=============

They did seem like they were in blame mode. They mentioned that this "war" was a partisan matter right from the beginnig (in spite of the fact Democrats voted for authorization, all but a few Democrats objected to the invasion)

There tone was more like as the Right moves farther to the right, and the Left moves farther left. The Iraqi people are going to be left in a mess, all alone, in the middle, if Democrats get into power.

But neither did they see the present course as any solution either. They were not giving the Republicans a pass by any means. They just saw the Iraqis as victims of a political squabble.

Does anyone know where to get a transcript of Charlie Rose on the Web? I tried googling it, but couldn't find anything.

Fred, not sure what you're looking for, but did you try this?
http://www.charlierose.com/features/char...

The Iraqi people are going to be left in a mess, all alone, in the middle, if Democrats get into power.

They're in a mess now. Being without American troops wouldn't make them alone -- it would  just remove one source of their current endangerment.

But there's no need for NeoDems like Hunt to worry about Democrats ending Bush's occupation. The last people DCDem leaders pay attention to is the liberal ant-occupation core of their party. Which could well keep them from gaining the power next year they seem to be taking for granted now.

This has a lot more, and video archives, but not seeing transcripts.

http://www.charlierose.com/home

I think it important to remember several things about the Iraq fiasco.

The people running this country and not dumb and they ARE dividers following the *divide and conquer* rule.

Iraq is going,IMO, exactly how they planned it...dividing Sunni and Shia, infrastructure destruction, puppet gov't.  This is the way they are going to grab the resources, land included.  They are keeping the people desperate,  without basic needs...the moneied and educated are fleeing the failed state....leaving it to this regime to steal whatever they want.

What bushie is wanting is a deal  in perpetuity to protect at all costs the *gov't* of Iraq.   IOW, another Israel, except we'll be supporting two countries that hate each other. 

He's putting the US into an untenable position.  We are so effed. 

california4gore.org

What is YOUR state doing?

CORPORATE BILL

http://www.counterpunch.org/edson09142007.html

Former President Bill Clinton is touring the talk shows selling his new book, Giving, and it's giving me a headache. I don't like the way Clinton co-opts corporate friendly, conservative policy and rhetoric and then brands it as a new form of liberalism. It's as annoying to me as George W. Bush's attempt to co-opt a social conscience from truly progressive proponents of democratic principles. In the case of Clinton's new book, "Giving" just reminds me too much of Bush's "Compassionate Conservatism." Clinton's preaching of the civic duty of philanthropy sounds too much like Bush's "Faith Based Initiative."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against giving.  I am not against generosity.  And I am not against virtue. It's just that there's something inherently in poor taste about a politician espousing the virtues of "giving" in a society riven by a deep chasm of class and race inequality. It's not just the normal bad taste of a millionaire's self-satisfied self-praise for sharing the crumbs off his table linens with those who are desperate enough to clean them up. In the case of the politician, it's much worse.

28. Linda*in*SFNM

==========
Thanks, Linda. I feel really dumb. I should have just tried [his name].com - I guess he doesn't want to give google royalties.

The home page has last night's show, if Sitka, or anyone else is interested.

EXEUNT STRATEGY

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-weber/exeunt-strategy_b_64437.html

What's left to be said? The only scenario that hasn't been played out by This Bush of Ours is the burning of Rome portion of the program, the collapse of the very country upon which he and his cynical cohorts have grown swollen as ticks.

The hilarity and the horror of it all is that far from being thuggish and sloppy it may turn out that this administration and its ministry of deciders have been truly clever, hiding their agenda in plain sight of those who just will not see. Like when you combine photos to produce a a cross-eyed, gap-toothed mash-up of amusingly inbred facial features, we have been held in thrall by a shrewd combination of P.T. Barnum and Joseph Stalin. A sucker is born every minute in the United States. And its pedigree is immediately put to use by the shrewd students of human history that are devoted to the exploitation of a people's weakness instead of the cultivating of its strengths.

No prob Fred

Rachel Maddow  ROCKS!!!

29. Sitka

They're in a mess now. Being without American troops wouldn't make them alone -- it would just remove one source of their current endangerment.

============
We are all aware of the problems our occupation has caused and the problems that leaving would solve. You are not the only genius here with that kind of insight.

There are lots of other problems that would, and could sprout up in its place. The question is not which problems is the lesser of two evils, but rather how we achieve the least of evils, as we prepare to exit, and it fact, maybe even have a happy ending.

You are making a big mistake to think that people with this concern, this hesitancy, are doing nothing more than making excuses for Bush & Co and staying the course.

Most could care less about Bush & Co. And the biggest concerns are found among the Iraqi people themselves, reportedly.

The Neocons have been jumping on the bandwagon lately for this concern, and DO use it for an excuse - to stay the course.

This is a complex problem and, yes, I have always believed the core tends to oversimplify it, implying that our leaving will instill spontneous peace upon the land and all will be well. In your dreams. It just ain't gonna happen. That's not to say we should not prepare to leave immediately. But that's the question.

How do we prepare to leave?

So....the bush family, aided and abetted by good friend, CEO Ray Hunt, begins in earnest the theft of the oil.  There aren't enuf Hagues to punish these criminals. 

(CBS/AP) Texas' Hunt Oil Co. and Kurdistan's regional government said they have signed a production-sharing contract for petroleum exploration in the Kurdistan region of northern Iraq, the first such deal since the Kurds passed their own oil and gas law in August.

A Hunt subsidiary, Hunt Oil Co. of the Kurdistan Region, will begin geological survey and seismic work by the end of 2007 and hopes to drill an exploration well in 2008, the parties said in a news release Saturday. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Hunt is a privately-held independent oil company based in Dallas, Texas. A third partner, Impulse Energy Corp., also has a stake in the project.

"We're very pleased to have the opportunity to be a part of these landmark events by actively participating in the establishment of the petroleum industry," Ray L. Hunt, Hunt's CEO, said in a statement.

Hunt, who is also on the board of Halliburton, has been a key fundraiser for President George W. Bush, who named him to the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board.

Revenue will be shared by the KRG throughout Iraq, consistent with the Iraq constitution and the Kurds' new petroleum law, issued by the Kurdistan National Assembly early last month.

Despite Iraq's vast oil reserves, major international companies have sat on the sidelines, not only for security reasons but because of the absence of legislation governing the industry and offering protection for investments.

A draft oil law for all of Iraq has been bogged down for months, in part because of disputes over who will control the proceeds.

In August, however, the Kurdish self-governing region in northern Iraq enacted its own law governing foreign oil investments. The move angered the central government in Baghdad, but the Kurds are determined to push ahead with oil exploration.

Ashti Hawrami, the regional government's minister of natural resources, said in a statement that the signing by Hunt is evidence the government's new oil and gas law has created "a supportive and transparent business environment which promotes investment by international oil companies in our region for the benefit of all."

Associated Press Business Writer John Porretto and the AP's Robert H. Reid in Baghdad contributed to this report.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/09/business/main3244774.shtml 

39. Linda*in*SFNM

=======
Charlie Rose is by far, my favorite talking heads show, but of course, I have an antenna, no cable and no satellite, just 5 major stations, ABC, NBC, PBS, FOX, CBS.

How do we prepare to leave?

Pack our bags and head for the nearest chopper!

I've been saying for years that this is not a bumbling incompetent regime.  Bush put himself forth as the *what me worry* idiot,  while knowing all along  how to enwealthy his buddies.  No one, no one could have bungled Iraq so badly.  No one. 

This was planned, Iran is planned, it's all planned so that the US and its special friends can rule the ME and steal its resources.  This is a struggle for land, oil, power, and the best of all possible gods.

Next stop.  Water theft from South America. 

This bush/hunt relationship is very troubling and hunt has high security clearance.  I can only imagine the deals and corruption and graft and murder etc etc going on under the radar.

Oh, I forgot.  Bushie also wants the opium trade monopoly. Lotsa money there! 

44. Huron John

Pack our bags and head for the nearest chopper!
===========

Couldn't resist, could you? It was a rhetorical question.

Bush will not leave.  We can forget a nice withdrawal unless congress wakes up spiritually.

We have to just leave. Period. Leave.

Won't happen.  The crime family is setting up a permanent huge force.

What to do?

Get rid of pelosi, keep bills in committee, start impeachment, cut the purse strings.  Oh, and vote Reid and Pelosi outta office.  She never replied to my rather acerbic letters. Is acerbic the right word?  Testy, cranky, and all that.  LOL

While we're going acrapper, OJ is in the news again. 

Dollar's Retreat Raises Fear of Collapse
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091407R.shtml
Carter Dougherty for The International Herald Tribune reports on the dollar's falling value: "For longer than most economists would have been willing to predict a decade ago, the world has been a willing partner in American excess - until a new and home-grown financial crisis this summer rattled confidence in the country, the world's largest economy."

29.

Sitka

The last people DCDem leaders pay attention to is the liberal ant-occupation core of their party. Which could well keep them from gaining the power next year they seem to be taking for granted now.

=============
I don't agree with the seemingly cynical first part, but the second part, about "taking for granted" is something we can agree upon.

However, the core seems to constantly imply an allusion of power that the Democrats in Congress have, and are not using [to end the war] for whatever reasons.

Isn't taking that power for granted, the same as taking the Presidency for granted?

48.

seashell :-)

Bush will not leave. We can forget a nice withdrawal unless congress wakes up spiritually
================

You don't think we need to reach across to get 2/3 for an override, to do anything substantial?

This is incredible.  Al Gore is s polling at 16 percent without being a declared candidate.

Sorry .  That is Ipsos AP: poll

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/client/act_dsp_pdf.cfm?name=mr070914-1toplinerevis.pdf&id=3637 

linda, don't you think those polls, at this point, are wishful thinking+name recognition+beauty contest. they've been at those numbers for a while now. i'm thinking it takes something big to break free. like bicycle racers, it think, you don't want to break too soon or everyone else drafts you and kicks your rear at the end?

hill and obama seem to be playing poker face. edwards keeps trying to lite some little fire like yesterday with the ad after gw's speech. dodd and biden are playing the "listen to my opinon" pundit circuit. where's richardson? gravel sent me an email, but i haven't gotten around to opening it yet. and dennis: what's up with him?

from the gravel email:

I wrote a blog entry on "the Huffington Post" challenging themyths of 9/11. And on the sixth anniversary of that terrible day, Idelivered a speech at the UN lambasting our foreign policy sincethe attack and calling for a new, truly independent 9//11Commission that will investigate unanswered questions about ourgovernment's failure to protect us before and after the attack.Use this tiny url redirect to read the Huffington Post I wrote,titled " The Real Lessons of 9/11":

http://tinyurl.com/2b7ta3

1.) Click on "I'M A FAN OF THIS BLOGGER" next to "SEN. MIKE GRAVEL". 2.) Leave a comment -- this is very important -- the more comments that article gets, the higher up the article goes in the Post -- and the more it's read!Thanks for reading it and helping my message get out to more people.

Isn't taking that power for granted, the same as taking the Presidency for granted?

What DCDemocrats really take for granted isn't power, but the support of "core" liberals whom they can't win without.

They got that support in the last election, but have since governed as if they didn't need it then and won't again next year.

Gore as the nominee may be the only person who can make liberals set aside the betrayels and keep them interested enough for Dems to win on his coat tail. 

OJ is in the news again.

I turned off my TV as soon as they began with it.

mprov, I think we've been seeing a Beauty Pageant, but it is drawing near.

No, it doesn't mean everything, but it does show the strong desire and support considering he is not a candidate. I don't think it's name recognition alone, especially when you see now that if he doesn't run, the majority of votes go to Hillary, which means folks are looking for experience.

They tell us some things, not everything.

I think at this point, when people are expressing their desires and numbers decline as they have and we push more on the draft, it will be just the right time for him to enter, if he is deep down considering it and sees the support and that the issues are not being addressed.

Heck, I was surprised to even hear Jonathan Alter pretty much say that on Olbermann tonight. He usually floats around the middle. He's saying folks are getting upset and the Dem candidates are working toward the middle which is upsetting the base. Especially at this time in the election.

So they are seeing their waffling and aren't happy. It's time to call Al Gore!

I believe now that we are getting down to the wire, and the support has been shown, the candidates have shown where they are going (or not), the race is shaping as it is, it will be time by the end of next month. IMO

Rudy's sounding like the Rudy we New Yorkers know so well: "How dare anyone question Petraeus' integrity?" he huffs.

Erm, the last I looked, this was a democracy which means anyone has the right to question anything. Apparently Rudy feels Petraeus' integrity is sacrosanct in the same way he considered any action of the NYPD sacrosanct, even when it was shooting an innocent person 37 times or raping another innocent person with a broomstick.

"They're the police, how dare you question their integrity?"

Good ol' Rudy, some things never change.

-- volney

sitka, it does seem to be shaping up to be a hill/nelson/levin/et al, aka "the evil dlc empire," allied with the blue dogs, against the rest of the party.

i heard just a bit of some guy on msnbc while i was working today make a statement something like: "if the dems don't wise up the blue dogs will defect to the repugs and then there goes their majority." as always, i say: see ya. don't let that door hit you in the "sheri deleted explative."

Oh and mprov, months ago I agreed, it was early, it was alot about hype, media pushing (which still figures in for some), but time is aproaching and it also shows the talking points of "people have already chosen their candidate, it's too late" is false.

linda (sitka), maybe its the "hill's gonna win inevitability" that he's really waiting for? isn't that your theory, sitka? or one you've posted anyway?

61. its too late when he can't get on the ballot.

And another thing on my mind: why on earth is Charlie Schieffer the only human being who calls the Iraq escapade what it is -- an INVASION followed by an OCCUPATION, not a WAR.

The Iraq action was unilateral on our part. There were no hostilities against us to which we were responding, nor any wronged third party like Kuwait seeking our help.

We invaded Iraq and now we are occupying it, probably for decades. The candidates need to be saying this, and I was very disappointed that the Dem response to Bush's speech the other night was so mealy-mouthed.

-- volney

a lot of my friends have given up on gore and gone ahead and endorsed obama or edwards. they say they won't change their minds through the primary, but i wonder...

delegate selection for denver sure is going to be fun!!!

volney, gw was setting it up yesterday with the korea comparison: been there 55 years now. wanna go for double or nothing???

If Gore hasn't announced or endorsed by the end of October I'll pick someone else.

I am hoping I don't have to. I'm not thrilled with any of the current crop.

-- volney

excuse me, 57 years...

64. I agree and that's what we're working with, which is why we say we're getting down to the wire and time to push. It will still take some time for him to organize and get on the ballots. Most places are only starting to collect them now. Like here, it starts around October 8.

Iowa For Gore will be having a big Rally to Draft Al Gore on October 21. This event will be in DesMoine with local popular acts, Two groups that are well known in Iowa are already booked (The Blue Band and Home-Grown Tomatoes).

It takes us grassroots longer to get somewhere some times. :)

mprov, 66, see :)

Volney good things come to those.........:)

62. the numbers are showing that more. That folks want experience. And that's why the others numbers were seeming to fall and here gap got larger. But still many are not happy with Hillary's Moderate positions. Ahhhh, the place we're in.


RUN AL RUN!!!!!

"if the dems don't wise up the blue dogs will defect to the repugs and then there goes their majority."

The Democratic party has gone to the dogs since the election. They control the party -- what do they have to complain about? 

If those people want to govern like and with Republicans, let them become Republicans. At least then RealDemocrats can be run against them. Either that or let liberals leave a party that makes them always give up their seats to the cons and move to the back of the bus.

Maybe they made Patreaus testify b/c if Sec of Defense had done it he wouldn't be military -- we can't throw potshots at Patreaus b/c he is military and it is not supporting the troops. I sent $25 to Moveon today b/c I think they really took a hit and the dumb Repugs ended up winning the week and I think Moveon has done some great things -- just that ad kinda bombed -- even tho we've all been callng him betrayus on the blogs for weeks.

=========

Did anyone else watch FDR on CSPAN -- it was downright riveting TV -- they showed letters from Einstein to FDR (supposedly ushered in the nuclear age), from FDR to Stalin and Hitler. That guy Richard Norton Smith says that rather than bringing socialism to America that FDR had saved not only democracy but capitalism after the depression. FDR dreaming up lend lease which enabled him to 'lend' enuf weapons to England to help w/ the war before we got in. They showed many 'fireside chats' which were very good. The absolute best moment was a radio broadcast Eleanor Roosevelt gave ON THE NIGHT OF PEARL HARBOR!! They say she always gave Sunday broadcasts so she just talked about the attack -- the first in the administration to do so -- imagine Hillary or Ms. Bush doing that -- Hillary would have been crucified.

But she gave a wonderful speech and this line brought tears to my eyes: WE ARE THE FREE AND UNCONQUERABLE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. This was Eleanor Roosevelt broadcasting to the USA on the night of Pearl Harbor!

mprov, Korea was another regrettable decision of our recent past.

I remember the outrage of my parents' generation that there was no declaration of war in that action. They were right to be outraged because the lack of a declaration paved the way for Vietnam and for the mess we're in today.

Congress should be forced to stand up and declare war against any of these puny pseudo-enemies we are so intent on "warring" with. Because if they had to, these things would not have happened.

Afghanistan is a vaild war, although one we are fobbing off and losing. We told the Taliban if they continued to harbor bin Laden there would be consequences. This was before 9-11. Their response was to name him their military commander in chief on 8-30-2001. We should have declared war and attacked them on 9-1-2001. Maybe we would have found some intel that could have prevented the attack.

I hate what the neocons and the do-nothing Congress have done to this country. In fact, I had a s----y day and feel like taking to the streets with a torch and a pitchfork, generally. ;-)

-- volney

74. I'll join you volney. "We" won in Afghanistan tho -- they had a great poppy crop and now 100 Mexican trucking companies are distributing it all over the US for Bush and cronies.

 its too late when he can't get on the ballot.

Gore and his people are surely aware of the filing deadlines, which I believe is Dec.4 for NH. 

In 2004, an 18-wheeler crossed the median on a highway north of Dallas and collided with two vehicles, killing ten people, including three children - a tragedy that represented but a fraction of the roughly 5,000 Americans who die each year in accidents involving big trucks. However, it was this particular accident that set an investigative team from The Dallas Morning News on a 14 month-long exploration that revealed - among other things - unqualified drivers, dangerous working conditions, lack of safety inspections, and very little oversight of an industry that affects every city in the country.

Read stories from the "Road Hazards" series published by The Dallas Morning News and explore multimedia features related to the reporting on the site.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/episode213/index.html

74. i went to check the date for korea and found this site:

http://www.korean-war.com/

its got the flags of the 2 sides and when you click the country name, they give a brief resume of the country's service. i became engrossed reading them. check out the dutch...

Isn't it about time for Howard to show up in Italy? He was invited to speak to a huge crowd, celebrating the election i think.
Maybe there will be some sightings on DU pretty soon. I love the comments Howard gets on his trips from his hosts. I especially liked it when they told him they were "waiting for a Howard Dean America". So are we!!!

well, yes of course, if there's to be full scale military action, the constitution should prevail. no more "let's try it for 6 months (war powers)" or even the current row. you want war??? time to put your name on it and buy it with cash not credit.

sitka, remember that's filing date=signatures turned in. the process has to start at least a month before.

http://clicks1.musictoday.com/cts/click?...

Graham Nash, David Crosby, Jackson Browne, Keb' Mo', Krishna Das, Emily Saliers, John Hall Perform Benefit Peace Concert at the Cathedral

Join Bishop John Bryson Chane and Cathedral Dean Samuel T. Lloyd III on Tuesday, October 16 for an extraordinary night of prayer and music. Renowned musicians and prominent religious leaders will express our collective desire for peace in song and spiritual wisdom from diverse traditions. We rejoice in offering this interfaith expression of the Cathedral's Centennial celebration and honor His Holiness the Dalai Lama, on the eve of his receipt of the Congressional Gold Medal.

Reflections on peace by Chief Stephen Adkins, Sheikh Ahmad Bahraini, the Rev. Dr. Bernice Powell Jackson, Gyumed Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Jampa, the Very Rev. Leonid Kishkovsky, Imam Mohamed Magid, Rabbi David Saperstein, the Rev. Mpho Tutu and others.

The famed Tibetan Buddhist tradition of multi-phonic chanting will highlight the interfaith prelude prayer ceremony, and include Lama Zopa Rinpoche and highly trained chantmasters.

Proceeds will benefit the Cathedral's Center for Global Justice and Reconciliation and the International Campaign for Tibet.

Tuesday, October 16

Federal Court Strikes Down National Security Letters

In September 2007, in the only legal challenge brought to the NSL provisions of the Patriot Act, a federal court struck down the entirety of the National Security Letter (NSL) provisions of the Patriot Act. Judge Victor Marrero of the Southern District of New York ruled NSLs violate the First Amendment and directly abuse the constitutional separation of powers.

The National Security Letter provision of the Patriot Act radically expanded the FBI's authority to demand personal records like Web site visits and e-mail addresses without prior court approval. The provision also allows the FBI to forbid or "gag" anyone who receives an NSL from telling anyone about the record demand.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nationalsec...

Over the past few years, the federal government has returned to the bad old days of unchecked spying on ordinary Americans. In 2005, the nation learned that President Bush has repeatedly authorized the National Security Agency to monitor the phone calls and emails of people inside the United States, without a warrant and in violation of the Constitution. Authorized days after September 11, 2001, this warrantless wiretapping program is part of a broad pattern of the executive branch using "national security" as an excuse for encroaching on the privacy and free speech rights of Americans without adequate oversight.

In July 2007, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals dismissed the case, ruling the plaintiffs in the case — which includes scholars, journalists, and national nonprofit organizations — had no standing to sue because they could not state with certainty that they have been wiretapped by the NSA.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/i...

80.

I would like to see a citizens' movement -- an insistent one -- to force legislation that says military action by this country can only occur through a declaration of war.

We have slid all the way down the slippery slope and are lying in the muddy ditch at the bottom.

BTW, I am re-watching the Bill Moyers 9/11 documentary right now. It will make you all want to get a torch and a pitchfork and hit the streets. The full documentation of all the stuff we knew about al-Qaeda and the coming attack for 10 prior years.

What the frack are we paying all these bureaucrats in DC to do, if not to take all this incoming data and activity seriously?

-- volney

PS Did you know that OBL does NOT have kidney disease? I wonder why we've been told that for so many years?

sitka, remember that's filing date=signatures turned in. the process has to start at least a month before

I almost added "and collect signatures" to my comment. I imagine people would be kicking down the doors to Gore's HQ in NH to sign up for him. 

he's not a diabetic? strange that they would have made so much of that fact??? i always got the mental image of this pathetic guy with the bottle on the tri-pod stroller trying to navigate the caves???

56.

Sitka
Fri, 09/14/07
9:59 pm

What DCDemocrats really take for granted isn't power, but the support of "core" liberals whom they can't win without.

They got that support in the last election, but have since governed as if they didn't need it then and won't again next year.
==============

I'm not sure of what the size of THAT core is. They are very vocal, but I'm sure not one of them, even though I was even against going into Afghanistan, especially the way we did.

There is another larger core that has a lot more at stake with a Democrat in the White House than the Iraqi occupation and Bush's war on terror there (they are two different things.)

I wish your DCDemocrats could do more, but I accept the limits of what they can do, within the framework of the political landscape. I think they are trying their best in a bad situation.

I think a lot of whether or not you believe how much effect funding cutoff would be, and/or whether cutting off funds is even feasible without paying a political price for stopping the government.

sitka, i saw todd rundgren at the great american music hall last night. total rock band stuff. the bass player from utopia. drummer from the tubes. a second, and yet also famous, middle-aged guitar who's name i don't recall. totally rockin' show and non-stop for 2+ hours (rundgren's band alone.)

this is how it should happen: small dance hall, no lights, props, junk, just the music. he really pulled it off (as usual.)

Don't bring back the Draft

After all, who wants to sit around the television and wait for the next lottery ball to drop and sweat out your, your son's, your daughter's, you neighbors or sister's child's birthday selected for service to the Crown country.

No, don't bring back the Draft.

Martha Radditz, who has spent lots of time on the street in Iraq, gave a very critical assessment of the lack of any progress in Iraq and how rediculous to say their has been progress.

She said security is being enforced with cement barriers and walls. That's all you see in Baghdad. Nothing that can sustain itself.

87

Apparently OBL has no particular health issues.

Don't ask me why we were all led to believe otherwise.

-- volney

Dan Balz feels the report opens some doors for the lower tier Democratic candidates, to nibbles at the heels of Obama and Hillary.

I wish your DCDemocrats could do more, but I accept the limits of what they can do, within the framework of the political landscape. I think they are trying their best in a bad situation.

Many seem to think they aren't doing enough and could do a lot more, and are tired of excuses for promises that haven't been kept. It was Democrats who campaigned last year on the theme that they would end the Iraq Disaster. They have no one to blame but themselves when they are blamed for failing in that promise.

And it probably goes beyond disappointment by just liberals since everyone who voted Democratic last year expected them to fulfill their loudest promise. 

A mere 20% approval rating for Congress -- even lower than Bush's -- bodes disasterl if Democrats keep doing the same as they have. 

What if WE started a war and no one signed up to fight?

Well, we'd hafta institute the Draft.

 Petraeus said the active duty component of the total force army is at the end of their tether and if the CIC needs to sustain the force level in Iraq, then he has to find the warm bodies in the Reserve or National Guard component.

Total Force.  Total mismanagement.  Nice to have someone clean up after you George?

Don't bring back the Draft

Are some crazy Democrats bringing up that ruptured duck of an idea again? 

Annilow 73

The Repugs are whining about the ad, and a few DLCers are acting like they're embarassed, in hopes the Repugs won't scold them.
I don't think it was a loss at all. Jim Webb is maybe going to get Petraeus' boss to testify. That's a good move.
The Dems, instead of shrinking away should have had Petraeus take an oath, he's no better than anyone else. Now, they should be reminding everyone that Generals have lied to us before. The name Westmoreland comes to mind.
I think the ad was received by the public the same as the name was tossed around here.
We shouldn't be concerned about doing things that the Repugs will criticize us for, because they will criticize us if we do nothing.

What if WE started a war and no one signed up to fight?

Ideally, no one would.  Under such a circumstance the US doesn't deserve armed forces capable of carrying out the mission.

Iraq myopia

might just lead to more years of no universal health care

Jim Webb is maybe going to get Petraeus' boss to testify.

Betrayus' CENTCOM commander, Adm. Fallon, reportedly called him an " ass kissing chicken shit" for being a tool of the Bush Regime. He has commissioned his own report which not be written in the WH.

Adm. Fallon

I reserve judgement until I see the man talk to The People's representatives.

G@d help us, but I am agnostic.

that's why i pointed to the dutch involvement in korea. they apparently went through a 3rd round of accepting "volunteers" for that war. does that tell you something? the dutch of all people.

there are things worth fighting for, and then there's the rest.


peace as an objective has to be the course.

yet, there are times when a foe presents itself and there's nothing to do but fight it.

if your idea of peace gets in the way of this train of thought, i suspect that you need to take another look at human interactions. there are times when you have to fight back. simple to me....

neither iraq or the "war on terror" fit my definition of a worthy fight.

a police action is more to my liking...

paine, fallon's not likely to buck the regime...it would really surprise me if he did...

Islamists v. the west = WWIII

Right mprov, just more "wishin' for bad luck and knockin' on wood"

for the left...as far as Fallon goes.

Although...

I reserve judgement until I see the man talk to The People's representatives.

Me too. I can't put much trust in the military so long as Bush is their boss. 

so, these, let's really inflate their numbers, 100,000 suck-wads, wage violence against us. its still a police and special ops package. there's no war to be fought. where's their army...doesn't exist!!! its time to stop pretending that it does exist!!!

mprov,

as I recall

The Korean War was a police action

<>Iraq myopia.....might just lead to more years of no universal health care

Four Democratic presidents with solid majorities in Congress have failed to deliver on that promise since 1948 -- and none of them had deficits like Bush's to use as an excuse. 

Health insurance is the promise that Democrats will never deliver on so long as they can get away with just making it in every election. 

107. well, i don't get your drift. but, do you actually expect "an officer" to buck the system???

110. that was the "label" they gave it. not what i'm talking about.

Sitka
>

right, Sec Defense Gates is pitching optimism on the possibility that MORE troops can come home as we see SUCCESS.

Ya, right Sec Def!  I'm buyin'.

Has the new thread been announced?

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22191...


Sweet dreams.

It was a lable.  "War" was a lable, but it was a police action.

I was just saying that WWIII might actually be a police action. 

~~~~~~~~~~~

 expect "an officer" to buck the system???

>

expect? NO.

But I do have a foolish hope.

Oops, just heard Sec Def tasked Adm Fallon to generate a report and all support Petraeus.

It is all smoke and mirrors rovian bs.

new thread

94. Sitka

========
I don't think Democrats got elected because people EXPECTED them to end the occupation, per se, with a sheer majority in Congress if Bush was unwilling. I think independents did vote for changing direction, though, that is, as a start towards ending the Bush's strategy, but did not necessarily expect Democrats make it happen, and it was a statement for some.

I think Democrats have been getting better on many other issues besides the "war on terror." There were a number of other reasons Democrats gained seats. I don't believe Iraq was the only issue.

A change in direction for Iraq mostly helped Democrats. A lot of voters in swing States, where we won, might have been in favor of the original invasion and occupation, but thought Bush was a total blunder in executing it, and getting out would be the best way of cutting the losses, or maybe they thought the Democratic challenge would provide Bush with some discipline.

These are all my opinions and don't base them on any specific references.