Is there a moderator in the house ?

Yes - Sheri

Is there a doctor in the house ?

Yes - Howard, leaving his partnership in the faithful hands of his brother Jim

They and the rest of DFA come first. 

Is voting to go to war in Iraq a laughing matter ?:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/09/13/maher-asks-clinton-why-_n_64242.html

Constitution to Al Gore, "please save me".

Maybe we should also be forwarding this to every Congress person for a reminder of their job.

This is a video with snippets of Al Gore's speech last year at Constitution Hall about the over reaching powers and trampling of our Constitution.

http://tinyurl.com/3dkndm

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22200

and btw, I commented on one of the other threads about this great OnTopic news, lastnight, but I'll do it again.


woooHOOOO Prescott and Mayor Elect Wilson.!!! I hope you give Prescott a good boost. Bring moderation back. Those Antique stores could use the business. I hope the Raven is still there, I'm running out of my sealing wax!

I'm envisioning having a shot and a beer on Whiskey Row to toast your win. Kudos!

drive by hello in a very busy harvest season and I have to fit in a steak fry

combine Obama and Richardson's exit plans and you come pretty close to mine

I think the Democratic candidates are close enough to each other that they could all vote for the same measure again.

fund the withdrawal

a very beautiful part of America is the Prescott neighborhood

DFA training is as good as it gets.

drive by hello in a very busy harvest season and I have to fit in a steak fry

...

+++

Harkin's ?

Phil, take it easy on the work, you need your strength for the Harking Steak Fry. :)

Be well.

Oops, must correct that. Too Important.

Harkin Steak Fry.

did you know you could watch the Steak Fry, LIVE?
http://cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?Mcj-iK7-2Ur...

1.

rich^kolker
Fri, 09/14/07
9:01 am

"...we're stuck in a war that is not moving any closer to a good resolution, but we have to continue to commit troops to, because to withdraw them would "make it worse."

...QUAGMIRE!
---------

IT IS!..., UNTIL and UNLESS Demos are willing to explain to American people the way out.

They know what this "way out" is all about...but for whatever good or bad reasons WON'T tell it to Americans..., apparently HOPING/BELIEVING/PRAYING/(what else?) that the QUAGMIRE! will be resolved "by itself", "somehow"...

Well..., IT WILL BE..., however NOT by "by itself" and NOT "somehow", it will be resolved by American people themselfes...when they WILL FIND "the way out"...at which point they WON'T NEED Demos Party any longer.

TIME can't wait...it is now Demos Party choice!

rich^kolker
Fri, 09/14/07
9:01 am
___________________________________________________________________________

"make it worse"?  for whom?  Lets face facts, this country will do whatever our "special interests" in that region want it to...............also oil is there...................

1. 12.
If we could just pick up and leave, it would not be a quagmire. A quagmire is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

2. Sheri is indeed a moderator, and an excellent human being. We had several email exchanges. I will not be suspended for now, it seems, but after speaking with her, I can tell you there will be no more vulgarity problems from me. I feel much hope for the future of BFA.

13.

Michael Ellis
Fri, 09/14/07
10:08 am

Reply to this

rich^kolker
Fri, 09/14/07
9:01 am
_______________

"make it worse"? for whom?
---------------

!!!
What Demos Party's answer on that question?

Apparently..., it is: for "our" country, (e.g. for "Bush&Co." country also...).

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3601542&page=1

By Fredreka Schouten, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON

Democrat Barack Obama and Republican Ron Paul have little in common politically, except their opposition to the Iraq war.

Both top a new list of presidential candidates receiving campaign contributions from people who work for the four branches of the military and National Guard, according to a study released Thursday by the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics.

Obama, an Illinois senator, brought in more donations from this group than any White House contender from either party. The Democrat announced Wednesday his plan to withdraw all U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of 2008.

...

13.

Michael Ellis
Fri, 09/14/07
10:08 am

"make it worse"? for whom? Lets face facts, this country will do whatever our "special interests"

============
There needs to be infinitely more activity in the political solutions arena, both inside and outside the country.

We need a steady draw down, but we also need a change of mission, a different role for our military. What? Not sure, but the focus should be moving away from combat missions, and more to an advisory and intelligence mission.

16.

typo - common  politically,

s/b - Democrat Barack Obama and Republican Ron Paul have little in common politically,

Brzizinski is now in the Obama camp. That means I am more likely to support Obama if Biden drops out.

Al Gore joins Emmy parade
His Current TV earns its first nomination

Gore, who was a presenter at the Grammys (he used the occasion to round up talent for the Live Earth concerts) and attended the Oscars as part of the team behind winning doc "An Inconvenient Truth," said the Emmy nom for Current "is an exciting recognition of the quality of user-generated content and the quality of the work of the people who are making this network hum every day."

Current TV launched Aug. 1, 2005, after Gore and Hyatt, along with an investment team, bought the Canadian news network Newsworld Intl. for a reported $70 million. Defying the expectations of many observers, who assumed that they would launch a progressive alternative to Fox News, they created a network of eclectic programming in so-called pods, short segments often less than 10 minutes in duration, touching on everything from student loan practices to the crystal meth crisis to International Talk Like a Pirate Day.

At times, the channel's programming can resemble a film festival of short subjects. In the recent mix, for example, was a segment on architect Santiago Calatrava and a viewer-submitted piece on the Kibera slums in Nairobi.

About one-third of the programming comes from viewers who submit their shorts and see them posted online for viewers to vote on what they want to see on air.

There was skepticism that such a network could succeed, but some validation has come with the rise of YouTube and, more importantly, with TV news outlets like ABC News and CNN calling for their own citizen-generated video. Most new cable nets try to achieve traction with a few signature programs or personalities, but Gore and Hyatt said that they have not been tempted to adopt more traditional formats, like a 30-minute network-style newscast.

"Rather than us trying to be like them, we are sometimes tempted to be flattered that they are trying to be like us," Gore said.

..."That gets to our core vision. Most of what you see at the boundary of television and the Internet involves TV programming cannibalized for the Internet," Gore said. "We have actually reversed the flow by using the Internet as part of our core production infrastructure in order to connect to the thousands of young creators of our content who are able to send programming to us."

http://www.variety.com/awardcentral_arti...

Sunni Sheik Who Backed U.S. in Iraq Is Killed

BAGHDAD, Sept. 13 — A high-profile Sunni Arab sheik who collaborated with the American military in the fight against jihadist militants in western Iraq was killed in a bomb attack on Thursday near his desert compound....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/world/...

=============
Sad day, but lucky strike, for Bush. Just the kind of publicity he needs to make his case. I am sure he's gloating over the Sheik's poor dead body.

Now, It turns out that American economy works NOT in compliance (how come?!) with Fed. Reserve chairman's vision (or at least, not in compliance with the "speed" of his vision..., lol).
----------

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm

GREENSPAN SAYS HE KNEW ABOUT ABUSES IN SUBPRIME LENDING BUT FAILED TO FORSEE THEIR PARALYZING MARKET EFFECTS UNTIL LATE 2005
Thu Sept 13 2007 12:30:11 ET

............
Greenspan says he knew about the questionable subprime lending tactics that gave loans to homebuyers and investors with low adjustable interest rates that could rise precipitously, but not the severe economic consequences they posed. "While I was aware a lot of these practices were going on, I had no notion of how significant they had become until very late," he tells Stahl. "I really didn't get it until very late in 2005 and 2006."
............

FRED -

Nice post.

23. former

==========
They had to artificially pump up the economy by handing out cash, but look what it did to the value of the dollar, gold, and the cost of petrol. People are going to stop buying goods because China makes toxic junk, and European goods are too expensive. The future is in second hand goods.

16.

* rdorgan
Fri, 09/14/07
10:18 am



http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=...

Obama, Paul net most military workers' campaign donations
By Fredreka Schouten, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON

Democrat Barack Obama and Republican Ron Paul have little in common politically, except their opposition to the Iraq war.
-------------

Except:

- former has audacity of "hope" in mind and long bench of "prof" political advisers working out polls results as well as their candidate "image" continuously and instantly;

- latter has primarily PRINCIPLES only!

In the words of Monty Python "and now, something completely different":

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=319304&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__africa/

Sierra Leone presidential frontrunner vows war on graftKatrina Manson | Freetown, Sierra Leone

Sierra Leone opposition leader Ernest Bai Koroma, who looks set to win the West African country's presidential election, says he will wage an implacable war on corruption and work to revive the war-scarred economy.

With just over three-quarters of the votes counted from last week's run-off poll, Koroma, of the All People's Congress (APC), has a commanding lead with 60%. His rival, Vice President Solomon Berewa of the ruling Sierra Leone People's Party (SLPP), trails by about 20 points.

As a former insurance executive who once worked briefly at Lloyd's of London, Koroma (53) knows something about risks.

But if his victory is confirmed in the next few days he will face a huge task to galvanise and unite a nation still bleeding from the economic and social wounds of its 1991 to 2002 war. It was one of Africa's most brutal conflicts, in which drugged child soldiers slaughtered civilians and hacked off limbs.

"We have to run this country like a business concern," Koroma told Reuters in an interview late on Thursday at his red-and-white-painted party headquarters in Freetown.

Although the former British colony is better known for its gemstones -- most notoriously the blood diamonds that financed the civil war -- Koroma promised to develop agriculture and tourism. This would help create jobs in a country teeming with unemployed ex-combatants, where many live in abject poverty.

...

Koroma, who as a Christian from the largely Muslim north knows what it's like to be an outsider, said he would use the country's top job to promote unity and reconciliation.

"I am going to look for talented people who have integrity to form an all-inclusive government. It's not the region or political party you're from, it's the commitment you bring to taking Sierra Leone to the next level," he said.

...

Former.

I hope you saw my reply on older thread that it's not that Al Gore has changed, Dennis Kucinich misstated Al Gore's position, whether intentional or not we don't know.

Al Gore had a Universal Health Care plan in his 2000 Campaign policy and then upped that 2 years later, in 2002, to call for a Single Payer Health Care System.

25.

FRED from OR
Fri, 09/14/07
10:38 am
-----

Sure, China and Europe at fault in first place...lol.

Another show of Leadership, not followship. Leadership, when they can move and guide a group of a movement or an army, vs one who follows, a person following under the direction of a leader.

Governor Dean didn't hesitate to point out the poor policies of Alan Greenspan and called for his removal 4 years ago.

29. former
===========

?????? what's your point? I'm not blaming China and Europe for our problems, if that what you mean.

28.

Linda*in*SFNM
Fri, 09/14/07
10:43 am
---------


No, I didn't see it, sorry.
Can't argue that, 'cause simply don't know.

To me it's kind of hard to believe that Kucinich might be so cheap to tell not (or half) the truth.
Won't verify it anyway...(too time consuming and very little sense), let's leave it as it is for now.

Sad day, but lucky strike, for Bush. Just the kind of publicity he needs to make his case. I am sure he's gloating over the Sheik's poor dead body.

Bass ackwards. The assassination is a death blow to Bush's claim of improvement in Anbar. 

31.

FRED from OR
Fri, 09/14/07
10:50 am


?????? what's your point? I'm not blaming China and Europe for our problems, if that what you mean.
--------

NO, what is YOUR POINT, what YOU MEAN by predicting that:

"People are going to stop buying goods because China makes toxic junk, and European goods are too expensive. The future is in second hand goods."?

Whom are YOU blaming?

Yes, he was a lone ally from the opposing forces. Is sad. And he was so young.


bbl


"One day my ship will come in,
And with my luck, I'll be at the airport!"

ally/allie

Bass ackwards. The assassination is a death blow to Bush's claim of improvement in Anbar. 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

sitka,

You may recall this same bloke was planting ieds and killing amercans not too long ago....it all simply supports my very basic theory conjured up in 1976 after a drag off a joint and a gulp of Schlitz beer at college:  stay out of the ME, too unpredictable, too much hatred, if we have to get off oil then fine..................

LOL

ally
or
allies?


auhhh, I crack myself up.

 Great story about Jack WIlson.

 I encourage everyone here, whether you post or lurk, to consider running for some sort of elective office.  Or volunteer to be on a public board of some sort.

Earlier this week I won a seat on my local school board.  Two positions open, three people running and I came in second in the voting.  The person who lost was a three term incumbent and the president of the school board. 

So if I can win, I believe that any of you can. 

Olbermann reported last night that Betrayus' commander, CENTCOM chief Adm. Fallon (chosen by Gates), called Betraus an "ass kissing chicken shit" for his role in the phoney report.  MoveOn's criticisms seem tame by comparison.

Fallon has commissioned his own report which will further undermine the one written by Betrayus the WH.

Will DCDems have the moral courage of Adm. Fallon and call Bush out on his potemkin village called Anbar province?

Sitka,

Now I ask you...was that an appropriate remark? If someone said that to you - would you be offended?

Sheri

Blog Police

if we have to get off oil then fine..................

It would cheaper for us in every way to do so. 

Sitka,

In case you're wondering, I am referring to your comment #33.

Sheri

Good morning, BFA!

We are now back in MD. Have been since Wed night, actually, but managed to pick up a flu bug on the way back and am only tentatively going about business now. Used my conscious moments yesterday to skim through some of the missed threads.

Really good news about Prescott and soon-to-be Mayor Wilson. Good news to hear that linda b is keeping VA on its toes in going blue! Generally good news to hear from DFA training ... keep it up!

Bad news: putz, Betrayus, et al and any Dems who are suckered into the same-old-same-old. QUAGMIRE is exactly the word.

Now I ask you...was that an appropriate remark?

Yep.

If someone said that to you - would you be offended?

Nope. 

Being the guardian angel for every imagined slight on this blog will be a full time job, I fear.

bin Ladin is a pretty crafty guy as witnessed by his assasination of the head of the Northern Alliance in Afganistan in the days before 9-11 and I would be very careful right now after he took out the young Sunni collaborator on such an important day

I don't place much stock in the ups and downs of the threat code, but I might bump it up one if I were Chertoff. 

I'd get real nervous if Bush visited some school kids and started reading to them.

33.

Sitka
Fri, 09/14/07
10:54 am

Bass ackwards. The assassination is a death blow to Bush's claim of improvement in Anbar

===========
You look at it that way, but wishful thinking will not defeat the Neocons.

His case is that we are fighting terrorism (hello, does "war on terrorism" ring a bell) and that we are there to help them fight Al Qaeda. Anecdotal cases are great for political propaganda.

BTW one car bomb is not a "death blow" to his agenda, as much as one might wish it were.

just got back from a Jim Webb event in Norfolk, Va. More on it later.

I have many pix of Jim with lots of supporters. If I had only charged them...........................

I don't place much stock in the ups and downs of the threat code, but I might bump it up one if I were Chertoff.

It's been used so many times for political gain that it's now meaningless. 

Final travels in the south included a visit to the Country Music Hall of Fame & Museum in Nashville. I didn't realize that I *knew* so many of the Hall-of-Famers and have, in fact, enjoyed their music. Country music is truly a part of the general fabric of this country. If you ever do get a chance, it's certainly worth a stop.

We couldn't stay long enough to visit the Grand Ole Opry and other attractions since we were due in Kentucky. Our hosts only had dial-up there so we only used the computer to check email. We stayed in bluegrass, i.e., horse country and stopped by the first day of the Keeneland yearling sales on Monday to see Hip no. 156 go for USD 2.9 million.

Way beyond my budget, I'm afraid, but it was so much fun to see the beautiful animals and to people-watch. We saw D. Wayne Lukas, Bob Baffert, Gary Stevens, Sheikh Maktoum from Dubai (the buyer of the expensive colt) and countless others. There were lots of people there and most appeared to be like us, mere sight-seers.

one car bomb is not a "death blow" to his agenda, as much as one might wish it were.

When Bush claims success in Anbar and then the person he touted as instrumental in achieving it gets blown up outside his own fortified compound, that is a death blow.

But please elaborate on how it helps Bush in any way. It should make for an interesting discussion.

Good going, linda b! Do you have a url for your photos?

Sheri this is a rough and tumble space and I think that fits within the allowable conduct here.

It is the vulgar attacks on other bloggers we can do without.

The success of this space has been it part because we are a free wheeling bunch.

Post 33. was right on the money content wise and used the less offensive colloquialism.

38.
...You may recall this same bloke was planting ieds and killing amercans not too long ago....it all simply supports my very basic theory conjured up in 1976 after a drag off a joint and a gulp of Schlitz beer at college: stay out of the ME,..

========
Biden estimates 95% of the violence is sectarian, 5% Al Qaeda. Our Democratic strategy should not be to deny the existence of Al Qaeda, it should be to negotiate an end to the ethnic conflict, and then the Iraqis can defend themselves against Al Qaeda, if they are not fighting each other.

Oops, haven't checked the US markets yet this a.m., but this does NOT look like good news.

===============
Northern Rock shares plunge
Bank of England makes dramatic intervention
Vote: is the Bank's bailout reassuring?
Fiona Walsh, business editor
Friday September 14, 2007
Guardian Unlimited

Shares in Northern Rock plummeted nearly 30% today and there were heavy losses among other banks as the crisis-hit mortgage lender issued a profit warning and confirmed it had received emergency funding from the Bank of England.

The gloom in the banking sector spread to the rest of the market, pushing the FTSE 100 index down 119.1 points at 6,244.0 by 2.45pm, a fall of almost 2%. It was earlier down by over 140 points.

On Wall Street, the Dow Jones Industrial Average tumbled more than 100 points within the opening minutes of trading, to 13,323 as US investors took fright at further signs of the sub-prime contagion spreading to Britain.

In an unprecedented move last night, the Bank of England was forced to hand emergency funding to the group, Britain's fifth-largest mortgage provider. It has become the first major UK financial institution to run into serious difficulties as a result of the global credit squeeze, which has seen lending between banks shudder to a halt.
[...]
http://business.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,...

53. Phil Specht

It is the vulgar attacks on other bloggers we can do without..

=============
you emphasize the vulgar language, while you omit, the personal attacks, character assassination attempts, and slanderous provocation for it. You would not make a very good moderator or referee, Phil. You are very biased, whether you realize it or not.

I forget who put the link to a poll done on Connecticut voters as to Lieberman. It was last night's thread, I think. I just wanted to say thanks, I appreciated seeing that info. Too bad they can't recall him & ask for another election, but they can't. I believe the gov appoints a replacement for a senator &  they have repub. gov. 

I have many pix of Jim with lots of supporters. If I had only charged them...........................

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

linda b

IF you should ever do that, make sure you keep track of who is in the picture, because we once did that before JJ at a high dollar reception with Pres. Clinton and ended up with some photos of people no one could identify and it was all for naught (or worse).  for sure an embarrassment

Our Democratic strategy should not be to deny the existence of Al Qaeda, it should be to negotiate an end to the ethnic conflict, and then the Iraqis can defend themselves against Al Qaeda, if they are not fighting each other.

Let the Iraqis negotiate all they want. But their failure to meet the benchmarks which the "surge" was supposed to give them the breathing space to do proves that keeping US troops in Iraq is an utter waste of lives and money.

53.

Post 33. was right on the money content wise and used the less offensive colloquialism.

============
that is by far the stupidest thing you ever said. thin-veiled vulgarity, with switching letters, spacing, and %$^ marks, barely follows the letter of the rule, but violates the spirit of the rule. I don't think Sheri would agree with you.

If we eliminate vulgarity, we should eliminate it, not disguise it.

One blogger never learns while pleading his case to the jury which has seen it all with their own eyes.

56.

FRED from OR
Fri, 09/14/07
11:35 am

You are very biased, whether you realize it or not.
----------

???
And that to Phil with his heart size that may accommodate almost anybody?

lol..., may that be an opinion as well (not a fact)?

Sheri this is a rough and tumble space and I think that fits within the allowable conduct here.

It is the vulgar attacks on other bloggers we can do without.

...

+++

see post # 15

blogger there already has done his mea culpa

everyone else, business as usual ?

including mentioning that someone is over-medicated ?

some people, just like in any environment, might be more sensitive than others and can't let water slide off their backs as easily

might a little sensitivity training be in the works ?

I'll attend it

Fred

sorry, but the language is what a causual passer-by sees not the provocation (do you have to be so easy); I do agree that some of your anger might be justified, either scroll or live with the rules in your choice of words.

So putz is merely going to withdraw the same troops he sent over for the *surge* ... and yes, it is very difficult to see how he can spin the loss of an ally to his credit.

But then he has a very credulous group of spineless Congress people to deal with.

And so it goes.

====================
Bush appeal undercut by killing of Sunni ally
· President tells US public troops must stay for years
· Al-Qaida bomb ends showcase success story
Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Friday September 14, 2007
Guardian

George Bush last night called on Americans to support an "enduring relationship" with Iraq, in a speech delivered hours after a key Sunni tribal ally, portrayed as symbolic of a potential turnaround for the US in the war, was killed by a roadside bomb.

The president's prime-time address from the Oval Office marked the clearest acknowledgement to date from the White House that it envisages a long-term strategic relationship with the government in Baghdad, requiring the presence of US forces for years to come.

It follows repeated warnings from US officials of a "proxy war" with Iran.

Last night's 18-minute address had been designed to unite a war-weary public and a restive Congress behind Mr Bush's plan for maintaining the bulk of US forces in Iraq for the duration of his presidency.

The president attempted to soften his proposal by endorsing the recommendation this week of the commander of US forces, General David Petraeus, for a phased withdrawal of 30,000 troops sent to Iraq this year in the temporary "surge". The first withdrawals of 5,700 soldiers could start by Christmas, the president said last night. However, even those drawdowns were contingent on the situation on the ground.
[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33074...

One other ref to my comments at 57. The article said that Markos had to have the poll done himself because none of the new organizations would bother.

Also, this congress is again on a holiday. They say it's because of the jewish holiday. Why does the whole thing shut down? I can understand those of the jewish faith being given time off, but does the whole senate & congress have to shut down? When do they work?

{{{{phil}}}} ♥

59.  The poll was featured on KOS, in large part because Markos commissioned it.

61.

FRED from OR
Fri, 09/14/07
11:39 am


that is by far the stupidest thing you ever said. thin-veiled vulgarity,...
---------

I respect Fred's persistence...lol, wish our Demos would have the same..., double lol.

Well now it's at 59 instead of 57

jao--only fair, we shut down at X-mas.  Besides, they need to go begging for more money.

http://www.officialgorestore2008.com/

Great stuff - decent prices

More on the assassination of Abu Risha ...

=================
An assassination that blows apart Bush's hopes of pacifying Iraq
Last week George Bush flew into Iraq to meet Abdul-Sattar Abu Risha, leader of Anbar province
This week General David Petraeus told the US Congress how Anbar was a model for Iraq
Yesterday Abu Risha was assassinated by bombers in Anbar
By Patrick Cockburn
Published: 14 September 2007

Ten days after President George Bush clasped his hand as a symbol of America's hopes in Iraq, the man who led the US-supported revolt of Sunni sheikhs against al-Qa'ida in Iraq was assassinated.

Abdul-Sattar Abu Risha and two of his bodyguards were killed either by a roadside bomb or by explosives placed in his car by a guard, near to his home in Ramadi, the capital of Anbar, the Iraqi province held up by the American political and military leadership as a model for the rest of Iraq.

His killing is a serious blow to President Bush and the US commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, who have both portrayed the US success in Anbar, once the heart of the Sunni rebellion against US forces, as a sign that victory was attainable across Iraq.

On Monday General Petraeus told the US Congress that Anbar province was "a model of what happens when local leaders and citizens decide to oppose al-Qa'ida and reject its Taliban-like ideology".

But yesterday's assassination underlines that Iraqis in Anbar and elsewhere who closely ally themselves with the US are in danger of being killed. "It shows al-Qa'ida in Iraq remains a very dangerous and barbaric enemy," General Petraeus said in reaction to the killing. But Abu Risha might equally have been killed by the many non al-Qa'ida insurgent groups in Anbar who saw him as betraying them.
[...]
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/midd...

64.  Bush troop cuts are like his tax cuts.  The people always pay more.

At least when Edwards gets a haircut the barber goes home a happy man. 

But then he has a very credulous group of spineless Congress people to deal with.

Saying they are "credulous" gives them credit for being merely stupid when corruption is the more likely reason for them to keep backing Bush while ignoring the public's support for withdrawl. 

68   Yes, I just referenced that info. in my next post.

Cheers from here and all good wishes ... women getting feisty!

==================
Saudi women to put their foot down on driving ban
By Terri Judd
Published: 14 September 2007

Women in the only country in the world which still bans women from driving want to put their best foot forward – on the accelerator.

Saudi Arabia's newly established League of Demanders of Women's Right to Drive Cars plans to deliver a petition to King Abdallah Bin Abd Al-Aziz Al Saud, calling for their "stolen" entitlement of free movement to be restored.

In a statement on the Arab website Aafaq, the women said: "This is a right that was enjoyed by our mothers and grandmothers in complete freedom, through the means of transportation available."

In Saudi Arabia, a woman's right to drive has been a matter of heated debate for years. In 1990 a group of middle class women were arrested when they staged protest drives.

London-based Saudi political analyst and author Mai Yamani pointed out that reformist moves to slowly lift the barriers on women working meant little if they could not drive. You can't keep a woman locked up so she can't get out, drive her child to school. It is a basic necessity," Ms Yamani said. "I definitely believe it is time women were allowed to drive."

The league is led by Wajeha al-Huwaidar, and intends to deliver its message on 23 September, Saudi Arabia's national holiday.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/midd...

72   They don't have to shut down then either. They could just take Xmas day as a holiday as the rest of us do. They just had a 30day holiday & just came back from that. They think it's a big deal to work a 4 day wk instead of the 3day wk. they had when the Repubs were in power.

63. Phil Specht

sorry, but the language is what a causual passer-by sees not the provocation (do you have to be so easy); I do agree that some of your anger might be justified,...

==========
passer-bys are not blind to insults, humiliation and other machiavellian devices groupthinkers use to dominate a blog.

When guests see anger and vulgarity, they don't stop there, they figure there must be a reason for it and they will look for that reason.

the solution is to eliminate the source of the anger, and whatever is causing it. That is what I'm trying to do now, on a personal level.

74. Well, being credulous doesn't necessarily rule out being corrupt. But I'm not so sure that it is so much corruption rather than sheer spinelessness, with laziness mixed in.

If Monica and Phil, for example, can see as clearly as they do while being very active with their local political groups and their own personal lives, there is no excuse for any of our Senators and representatives, who are supposed to have staffs dedicated to following the issues, not to see as clearly, unless someone is dropping the ball ... or deliberately skewing the issues.

It follows repeated warnings from US officials of a "proxy war" with Iran.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Saudi bosses told their client Cheney to knock it off with killing Sunni tribal leaders and go after the threat of Sadr (to them); hence all the Iranian tie lies. (Just to note, it would be like Bush telling California to cut all ties with Mexico for Iraq to cut all ties with Syria or Iran)  

pretty simple

to keep a war going you need an enemy

Thanks to us al Queda is in Iraq and is more than happy to play along and keep us pinned down there exhausting our forces.

The way the war has gone has Saudi Arabia spooked and they need Anbar to counteract Shia domination and how that cooperation plays out as a Bush failure is that it means the Saudis don't trust us to not allow a real democracy where the majority Shia would rule.

hence new measures of success (failure) by Bush

Sheri and FRED need to have another email chat.

ACTIONS THIS WEEK AROUND THE COUNTRY: ORGANIZE ONE!

http://declarationofpeace.org/

70.  It has ever been thus.  That story from Anah told all about how the marines recruited young men to go off and be trained as police in Jordan.  Then, when they came back, they were supposed to snitch on their neighbors.  Then they were eliminated. 

What would you do with a traitor?

Oh, and when the police were eliminated, the tribal elders all said it was al Qaeda.  I don't think they wanted to sucker the Marines.  After all, they sent them on lots of wild goose chases from which they returned unharmed.  But, every once in a while there had to be an IED buried in the roadside or a truck loaded with fuel sent careening into the police compound.

Imagine.  The marine who wrote the story told about taking their vehicles into the desert and walking back into town on foot to conduct surprise raids because the Iraqis would think that when their vehicles were gone, they would be gone, as well. It never occurred to them that in the silence of the desert their footsteps would be heard--depending on where the wind blows.

It's really sad.  Our troops haven't a clue about how people live without vehicles. 

Phil, there is no war.  At most there is a cock-fight instigated by us.

43.

Sheri Divers
Fri, 09/14/07
11:13 am

Sitka,

In case you're wondering, I am referring to your comment #33.

Sheri

____________________

I appreciate you keeping an eye on things, and I by no means to interfere in a question not directed to me, but, I'm not sure if you were asking a generalized question as to how sensitive some might me or genuine concern, but in my opinion, I don't consider a slang of a description a personal attack or name calling that makes for a hostile environment.

But considering how heated things were getting, we very much appreciate you keeping an eye out on the blog.

Dear God, whenever prick resurfaces, it's to utter more falsehoods.

IMPEACH!!!!

====================
Cheney: U.S. 'getting things right in Iraq'

Source: ChicagoTrib SwampPolitics Blog

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. – Vice President Dick Cheney, lacing an address in support of the president’s Iraq war strategy with repeated allusions to the terrorism of Sept. 11 and a relentless enemy which the United States still faces, came to the hometown and gravesite of a former president whom he had once served with a stern message.

“Tough work lies ahead,’’ Cheney said of the war in Iraq. “But the evidence from the theater of war 6,000 miles away is beyond question: The troop surged has achieved solid results, and in a relatively short period of time….

“Ladies and gentlemen,’’ the vice president told an invited audience in a theater at the Gerald R. Ford Museum, “the United States and our coalition are getting things right in Iraq.’’

...

“In any event,’’ he said, “President Bush will make his decisions based on the national interest and nothing else – not by artificial measures, not by political calculations, and not by poll numbers.’’

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politi...

*************
For the DU comments since this was courtesy of DU, go to

http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...

Fred

Your vulgar language kept John Edwards live blogging here the day of the training so yes I am biased against your language even as I acknowledge it as a normal human response. Then you were at it again the day I had Sen. Dodd lined up to blog. Sitka has perfected the one liner most of which are right on political commentary, the occasional zinger directed at you personally would not normally throw off a first time visitor. I sometimes sympathize with your anger, but not the inappropriate words.

Well, being credulous doesn't necessarily rule out being corrupt. But I'm not so sure that it is so much corruption rather than sheer spinelessness, with laziness mixed in.

If it was a matter of being afraid to go against public opinion which supported Bush, I would believe the "spineless" theory. But when they go against public opinion in giving Bush what he orders while their own approval goes down the toilet with his, spinelessness can't be the reason. And I don't believe they would have ever gotten elected if they were politically stupid.

Well, for a country that is denying the Holocaust, this is a step forward in acknowledging that Hitler was indeed a war criminal.

===================
Iran's Khamenei says Bush is war criminal comparable to Hitler
By DPA

Iran's supreme leader Friday compared U.S. President George W. Bush to Adolf Hitler and predicted that he would eventually be brought to court as a war criminal.

"The day will come that Bush would be brought to a war tribunal for the catastrophe he caused in Iraq. He has to be called to account just like in the case of Hitler and Saddam," Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said in the Friday prayer ceremony in Tehran.

"[Bush] has to reply to the simple question why a rich country like Iraq has no water, no electricity, no hospitals, no schools... the only thing the U.S. brought into Iraq was terrorism," Khamenei added.

[...]
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/9037...

89. Sitka: I really believe that they actually pay more attention to the talking heads and Faux Noise than to their constitutents. And that's the problem.

CNN doing a hit piece for the NeoCons over the "Betrayus" ad which millions would never know about without their help.

Thanks for the PR, CNN. 

62. * rdorgan

====
Some good points - we need to work on more balance, less reactionary compulsive behaviour.

Well, let me try again ... constituents ... sorry about that.

I really believe that they actually pay more attention to the talking heads and Faux Noise than to their constitutents.

I expect they pay most attention to the signatures on the checks lobbyists give them. 

John Edwards was prevented from blogging with us because of Fred's language is what I meant to say so yes I am biased.

but thanks to Fred we are all familiar with the Biden Plan

84.

Monica Smith
Fri, 09/14/07
11:58 am


It's really sad. Our troops haven't a clue about how people live without vehicles.
-------

Majority of Americans haven't either...

Very healthy life indeed (although killing a lot of corporate industries..., drug ones first, ...lol.)!

Our client-state is intent on stirring up trouble of its own ... probably working hand-in-hand with prick and the US neocons.

=================
ANALYSIS: The air strike in Syria is a secret that cannot be kept
By Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondents

At six in the evening Tuesday, and while Christiane Amanpour was dropping her CNN bomb, Major General Eliezer Shkedi, chief of the air force, was milling about the yard at the air force center in Herzliya, shaking hands with airmen who excelled during the Second Lebanon War. The media had come in numbers but they did not succeed in getting anything out of Shkedi, besides a lukewarm greeting for the New Year.

Will the new year really be better than the last one? A lot depends on the impact of that air strike that Syria claimed occurred in the north of the country six days ago. Even if Amanpour's report is not completely accurate, the fog surrounding the circumstances of the attack is beginning to lift. Even more important than the details of the incident is the fact that CNN, an international media outlet, has lifted the gauntlet and tried to solve the mystery. It is now a matter of time before the main elements of the story are released to the media.

Both the Syrian and the Israeli leadership have been extraordinarily silent about this. According to European diplomats, the Syrians have made it clear that Israeli silence over the incident is "worthy."

It is still difficult to assess what the ultimate response of the Syrians will be, at least on the basis of the statements being made these past six days. On the one hand, the Syrians warn of the consequences and are angry that no one seems interested in condemning Israel's illegal raid. On the other hand, they are not talking about the "strategic" target that was bombed in their territory - according to Lebanese press. If they admit it, this would be a troubling sign that they are weighing a serious response.

The officers on the lawn in Herzliya did not seem phased by any concerns about Syrian reaction.

Of course, the air force did not suffer the humiliation of the ground forces. But even the air force, which succeeded in destroying the long-range Fajr rockets early in the war, was responsible for the failure in effectively countering the short-range Katyushas.

[...]
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/9033...

42. 43.

Just realized your visit, Sheri, thanks.

One person's "rough and tumble" is another person's "vulgarity"

John Edwards was prevented from blogging with us because of Fred's language is what I meant to say so yes I am biased.

You don't need to say a single word in your own defense, Phil. Everybody has seen it all with their own eyes.

The last for now ... an AP fact-check of last night's speech.

Have good ones!

===============
AP Fact-Checks Bush Iraq Speech

Published: September 13, 2007 11"45 PM ET

WASHINGTON Political realignment in Iraq's volatile Anbar province was Exhibit A for President Bush's argument Thursday that Iraq is a fight that the United States is winning.

A look at some of Bush's assertions.
[...]
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/...

for the (League of Conservation Voters) record:

http://presidentialprofiles2008.org/

'08 On The Record

League of Conservation Voters Environmental Profiles for all 2008 Presidential Candidates

...

and the rest of them (republicans are lower than Ron Paul's 30)

as for Mike Gravel,

96.

Phil Specht

John Edwards was prevented from blogging with us because of Fred's language...

==========
Did he tell, you that? I find that hard to believe, since every blog has a trolls, or "rough and tumble." If I were John Edwards, I would NOT want to be on blog where a commonly accepted POV is that anyone who voted on the Iraqi authorization is an unforgiven NeoDem traitor that cannot be trusted.

There is a lot more of that on this blog than vulgarity.

FOR INSTANCE

------------
40.

Sitka
Fri, 09/14/07
12:23 am

...I hold anyone who voted with Bush in 2002 to be "discredited." I hold anyone who wants to leave any number of US troops in Iraq indefinitely to be "dead wrong."
------------

EDWARDS CAN READ TOO. that feeling in groupthink would bother him much more than one vulgar blogger.

Good use of salient paragraph and link. Thanks!

If only we could all learn not to make everyone else have to scroll interminably. 

...I hold anyone who voted with Bush in 2002 to be "discredited." I hold anyone who wants to leave any number of US troops in Iraq indefinitely to be "dead wrong."

Vulgar? Keep trying. 

Fred's vulgarity was probably responsible for the hailstorm in Colorado the other day too.

102. 

(cont)

all the remaining candidates (republican) are below repub Paul's 30 

102.

(cont)

LCV Environmental ratings:

Obama - 96
Kucinich - 92
Clinton - 90
Biden - 84
Richardson -82
Dodd - 77
Edwards - 59
Paul - 30
McCain - 26
Brownback - 14
Thompson - 12
Tancredo -11
Hunter - 9

105. Sitka

...I hold anyone who voted with Bush in 2002 to be "discredited."

=============
that's right, and the reason Dodd would not come here either. It's a hornet's nest. Dodd also voted for the Inspection in Iraq. Their colleagues, like Kennedy, still respect them today, but we (you)don't???

Don't forget. Putting the blame on them takes Bush off the hook. Putting the blame on my bad words takes Sitka off the hook.

...I hold anyone who voted with Bush in 2002 to be "discredited." I hold anyone who wants to leave any number of US troops in Iraq indefinitely to be "dead wrong."

My bad. This is supposed to be an example of "groupthink."  But those who support Edwards, Dodd, Biden, and Clinton (did I leave anyone out?) surely don't agree with the first part of it; so it doesn't really qualify as "groupthink," does it?

linda b
Fri, 09/14/07
11:22 am

I hope Webb is going to enforce the benchmarks. 3 of 18 is failure in my book. It is NOT just about the troops and preventing extended tours. It's about ENDING THE TOURS altogether. Will he rubber stamp Bush's war?

102.

(cont)

Much better. I'm sure everyone appreciates the brevity which says just as much. 

I hope Webb is going to enforce the benchmarks. 3 of 18 is failure in my book.

Bush is claiming 9 of 17 have been met. A convenient bare majority.

Sitka
Fri, 09/14/07
10:54 am

... an accurate description of the situation. Our enemy turned friend killed for being seen with the fascist-interloper oil-steelin' tycoon-wannabe.

I believe the statement otherwise was backwards, it's proponent is almost always that also. Sitka didn't use outright profanity or vulgarity to make that clear.

I use 'derF' to make the same point, but not dictionary or slang gutter language... that is the difference.

Being wrong is just, well, unfortunate. Being arrogant and crude, resorting to base words is unacceptable.

hmmm, Sitka gets an A-, derF still bringin' Fs.

Putting the blame on them takes Bush off the hook

No, it puts them on the same hook. But actually, they put themselves there by their votes in support of his policy.

Sitka gets an A-

I'll try to make it a + 

Linda in SFNM.

I ran across this..a little help.
Gore's health plan in '00 he said would cover children and their families within 5 years through Medicaid.
Not universal, but semi single payer, I guess you could say. Later he supported a single payer plan.

Sitka -

Yep.

However, it pays to see how LCV arrived at it's lifetime numbers.  The LCV did not have a summary page so the only way to get the summary list is to click on each candidate's profile.

Hi Audrey


do you have some proof that he wasn't asking for Universal Health Care in 2000, I show much different.

Wants some form of non-government universal health care
Source: (X-ref Bush) Presidential Debate at Wake Forest University Oct 11, 2000

Cover 12 million uninsured at a 10-year cost of $157 billion
Gore has a more articulate, wide-ranging strategy on health, besides a more aggressive attitude to drug companies and HMOs. He proposes to:
Cover 12 million uninsured at a 10-year cost of $157 billion
proposes to extend health insurance to the uninsured by expanding the State-Children’s Insurance Program (S-CHIP) to include both more children and also their parents.
wants to change the Medicare rules to let Americans buy into the program with the help of a 25% tax credit, ten years earlier than they can now. Estimates for costs and coverage are 12 million more Americans insured, at a cost of $157 billion over ten years.
proposes providing a subsidized prescription drug benefit to all enrolled in Medicare, administered through the existing Medicare system. Estimated costs: $253 billion over ten years.
supports a patients’ bill of rights which extends broad rights such as guaranteed access to specialists and the ability to sue negligent health plans.
Source: The Economist, “Issues 2000” Sep 30, 2000

Move toward universal health coverage, step by step
Source: Speech to the Democratic National Convention Aug 18, 2000
http://www.ontheissues.org/Al_Gore_Healt...

118.

Deaniac in GA
=============
Well Bush used it in his pep talk - doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the value for him...

---------------------
In his speech, Mr. Bush acknowledged the killing. “Earlier today, one of the brave tribal sheiks who helped lead the revolt against Al Qaeda was murdered,” he said. “In response, a fellow Sunni leader declared: ‘We are determined to strike back and continue our work.’ And as they do, they can count on the continued support of the United States.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/world/...
--------------------

BTW calling me "derF" is vulgar antagonistic name-calling, which I promised Sheri, I will not respond in kind.

However, it pays to see how LCV arrived at it's lifetime numbers

That's what the link icon is for. 

Your vulgar language kept John Edwards live blogging here the day of the training

___________________________________________________________________________

Phil,

Whew!  Thats a relief........I thought it may have been my quit witted sense of humour.........Freds to blame, just as well I guess........

From the American bar Association Journal http://www.abajournal.com/news/new_uc_ir...

Erwin Chemerinsky, a renowned constitutional law scholar at Duke University, reportedly agreed to be dean of the new University of California law school slated to open at Irvine next year—but was then fired a week later due to his controversial political views.
So says a University of Texas law professor on his Brian Leiter's Law School Reports blog, and the Wall Street Journal Law Blog has since confirmed the news by talking with Chemerinsky himself.
Chemerinsky, who was to start work at Irvine's Donald Bren School of Law next summer, said he was told yesterday by UC Irvine Chancellor Michael V. Drake that he “hadn’t expected that I would be such a target for conservatives, a lightning rod," the WSJ Law Blog reports.


Feel free to write the Chancellor as I did.

law@uci.edu

In his speech, Mr. Bush acknowledged the killing. “Earlier today, one of the brave tribal sheiks who helped lead the revolt against Al Qaeda was murdered,” he said. “In response, a fellow Sunni leader declared: ‘We are determined to strike back and continue our work.’ And as they do, they can count on the continued support of the United States.”

That's putting a candle in a fallen souffle and calling it a birthday cake. No one is fooled. 

Dear derF,

'AG ni cainaeD', would probably not bother me in the least.
Being wrong on the facts, the mis-interpretation of sound fact, or endless spamming of already stated drivel - if that were the truth about my presence here - THAT would bother me.
I'd avoid open windows in upper floors then.

I just graded myself a C for even bothering to respond to such a fowl.
oops, C- for spelling.lol

KRUGMAN BOMBSHELL THIS MORNING

Paul Krugman released a bombshell editorial today that exposes the flaming carcass of the "nation" of Iraq for what it is. There is no nation of Iraq. There are three major ethnic groups fighting for control of resources and a number of smaller groups fighting to survive.

Given that there is no nation of Iraq and the U.S. still needs Iraqi oil the fall back position for big oil is to cut separate regional deals with the regional governments. That is exactly what has happened. Paul Krugman reveals:

What’s particularly revealing is the cause of the breakdown. Last month the provincial government in Kurdistan, defying the central government, passed its own oil law; last week a Kurdish Web site announced that the provincial government had signed a production-sharing deal with the Hunt Oil Company of Dallas, and that seems to have been the last straw.

Now here’s the thing: Ray L. Hunt, the chief executive and president of Hunt Oil, is a close political ally of Mr. Bush. More than that, Mr. Hunt is a member of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, a key oversight body.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/14/...

fyi - new thread

(btw - I never heard of students grading each other; IMO we're all hear to talk, listen and learn but if grades are to be given out, I hope to get a GRADE of 1% working towards a 4.17%:

http://www.golfmanorhobbies.com/pages/terminology.html )

124.

Michael Ellis
=============

This time it was Edwards, Mike. Last time I went ballistic it was Dodd that I scared away. The coincidence is remarkable.

new thread

warning, not for the warmongering or thin skinned

There are three major ethnic groups fighting for control of resources and a number of smaller groups fighting to survive.

Don't forget US troops stuck in the middle of it and doing quite a bit of damage and killing on their own -- not even to any purpose. 

Given that there is no nation of Iraq and the U.S. still needs Iraqi oil......

Since virtually no oil has come from Iraq since the invasion (except what has been smuggled), the US can obviously get along fine without it. 

I went ballistic

now there might be some hope

130.

FRED from OR
Fri, 09/14/07
1:08 pm

...last week a Kurdish Web site announced that the provincial government had signed a production-sharing deal with the Hunt Oil Company of Dallas, and that seems to have been the last straw.

Now here’s the thing: Ray L. Hunt, the chief executive and president of Hunt Oil, is a close political ally of Mr. Bush. More than that, Mr. Hunt is a member of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, a key oversight body.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/14/...
---------

Big "news"!
Ability to make a "gross generalization", e.g. ability to think logically would bring one to THAT conclusion about 4.5 years ago...or even BEFORE that..., lol.

Amazing – that the Shiekh didn’t have more protection – as important as he was. He took a  well known road from his farm – an easy target.   But he was only one of MANY tribal leaders.  This will only make the Sunni stronger and gain them more help from across the borders.   I heard General P. admit, that most of the foreigners coming in are – Saudi Arabians (Sunni’s).   Of course they are … it would be like us watching Canada being attacked and the Canadian Christians slaughtered…of course we would go help.  Perhaps not in the name of our government, but….

The Sunni might say, you ‘squashed’ us coming in and gave power to your friends the Shi’ite.   We knew what would happen.  They targeted us, the Sunni – in genocide. You targeted us, in Abu Gahraib.  Most of the 27,000 prisoners you have (half of them teenagers) are Sunni.    The hundreds of thousands of collateral damage (innocent dead civilians) are mostly Sunni.   Faluja – was Sunni!  For the death of four mercenaries, you displaced 400,000 civilians into the desert and destroyed the city.  While 35 of your marines were killed for the same.  And then…we have ‘fair elections’.  ?  We know the Shi’ite  will never agree among themselves in the government. They will kill each other.  The government is worthless and hated.  They need your army to stay and protect them – in the Green Zone.  So be it.

Give us weapons and we will defend our own.  And WE will take care of your feared Al Qaeda.  You have destroyed the country, almost beyond repair. But we can and will  save ourselves.

Linda in SFNM.....
This article was written in April '00. It was in response to Bradley's plan which had been touted by some as being better. Gore pointed out that Bill's plan was too expensive. So, if Gore was being presented with plans by Kucinich, and probably others, I imagine they all got into the act, and if Bradley was getting some traction on his, it's conceivable that Gore made some changes betweem April amd Oct. If that's so, then it was for the good. Health care was not the big issue as it is today. They were all smarting from Hillary's botched attempt I think.

Linda in SFNM.....
This article was written in April '00. It was in response to Bradley's plan which had been touted by some as being better. Gore pointed out that Bill's plan was too expensive. So, if Gore was being presented with plans by Kucinich, and probably others, I imagine they all got into the act, and if Bradley was getting some traction on his, it's conceivable that Gore made some changes betweem April amd Oct. If that's so, then it was for the good. Health care was not the big issue as it is today. They were all smarting from Hillary's botched attempt I think.

Linda in SFNM.....
This article was written in April '00. It was in response to Bradley's plan which had been touted by some as being better. Gore pointed out that Bill's plan was too expensive. So, if Gore was being presented with plans by Kucinich, and probably others, I imagine they all got into the act, and if Bradley was getting some traction on his, it's conceivable that Gore made some changes betweem April amd Oct. If that's so, then it was for the good. Health care was not the big issue as it is today. They were all smarting from Hillary's botched attempt I think.