THANK YOU DENNIS for providing such a detailed list.

The good news for me is only 1 am I a client of. And it surely was not for being advertised on FOX.

Thankfully I am a Large Corporations nightmare. :)

oops. Howard Dean still is number 1.

I do see that some in Florida,  Jon Ausman one of the main ones.....are saying they need to start working on an alternative plan to the primary.  I hope this article is correct...but Bill Nelson is still agitating. We shall see.

http://www.miamiherald.com/458/v-print/story/238252.html

We shall see.  Pretty long read.  Hope they do try.

However, I have noticed our Democrats still have some of the thing that Howard Dean once called the Stockholm Syndrome in the party.  They simply don't want to take principled stands and upset the applecart too much.  More about that here.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1501

There's a little there calling out Florida, the party for not defunding, Bill Clinton, and other stuff.  We really do have to praise when they deserve it,  but keep an eye out when they tend to get too comfy with the other side.

dennis obviously doesn't get it...

HEY HOWARD BE 1ST IN THESE PARTS FELLAS, GET IT....

hey sheri, why not trim down posts like the above???

Call Sean Hannity's advertisers and tell them you will not buy their products until the Iraq war ends.

I wouldn't buy any of that stuff even if it did end.

$100 for a piece of meat at Ruth's Chris? Forget it.  I'd give the money to someone with a help sign at the intersection first.

hey sheri, why not trim down posts like the above???

Editing posts would be a dirty job. Once started, where would it end? 

Went out to dinner with my parents, a while back, and ate a $35 steak that tasted no better than a good $15 steak.  And the other vittles on the plate belonged on a $13 plate.

What a waste.

sorry, but the 1st post was completely obnoxious....screw, i mean never forget, wait a minute, maybe i really mean,,,,,,,,

...blah......blah.....

sorry, but the 1st post was completely obnoxious....

You aren't the one who should apologize. 

RE: The CA "Presidential Election Reform Act" ballot initiative.

SLATE / jurisprudence: The law, lawyers, and the court.

The Legislature Thereof
California voters can't change the 2008 election rules on their own. By Doug Kendall, founder and executive director of Community Rights Counsel, a public interest law firm that promotes constitutional principles.

full research article: http://www.slate.com/id/2173740/nav/ais/...

Shields on The News Hour saying that the MoveOn ad may liberate the Democrats from the anti-war faction.

11.

Imn2Paine


At what resturant did you and parents dine? Was it a franchise?

s/b your parents

No.  Golden Mast

Shields on The News Hour saying that the MoveOn ad may liberate the Democrats from the anti-war faction.

I liberated myself from Shields many years ago.

"The president (Bush) makes people feel proud to be Americans. Even those of us on the other side of the political aisle should thank him for that."

16.

Imn2Paine

I saw this story on the national new tonight. There was an interview with Eli Pariser.

I also heard the news commentator use the phase "bring our troops home" several times on another story.

Gotta go, my hubby just got home. It's dinner time.

The Democrat running as Light Democrats may get liberated from the Democratic Party, but us Democrats, the base, that are anti War are hardly going to be come pro war.

I say, The Truth Shall Set You Free. If you want to be Pro War, you know where to go, if you are for humanity and peace, you know where you to stand.

I'm off too.

have a good dinner Susan.

There seems to be a "liberate from the left" talking point making the rounds among the old guard Bush fawning Dem pundits. Considering DCDems have given those whom they promised to end the occupation nothing anyway, what difference does it make if they liberate themselves for us or we liberate ourselves from them?

But it's so typical of the DCDem establishment to attack their own supporters who expect nothing more than promises be kept. And they wonder why Republicans have been cleaning their clock for the better part of the last 30 years?

Republicans don't keep their promises either, but they're not stupid enough to attack the people whom they expect to vote for them for being disappointed.

back for this quick post.


Breaking: OH MY GOD! Greenspan SLAMS the GOP!
by EZ writer [Subscribe]
Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 07:15:04 PM PDT

Coming from the Washington Post:
Alan Greenspan in his new memoir is telling the Republicans exactly what he thinks of them.
It's laid out in a Bob Woodward preview of the memoir coming out Monday.
And former President Clinton emerges as a hero to boot!
On the Bush administration:

"Little value was placed on rigorous economic policy debate or the weighing of long-term consequences." The large, anticipated federal budget surpluses that were the basis for Bush's initial $1.35 trillion tax cut "were gone six to nine months after George W. Bush took office." So Bush's goals "were no longer entirely appropriate. He continued to pursue his presidential campaign promises nonetheless."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/14/...

Alan Greenspan in his new memoir is telling the Republicans exactly what he thinks of them.

It's revolting how political hacks like him and Sen. Warner and Colin Powell find the courage to speak truth only after they have nothing to lose. 

I enjoyed John Edwards' 2 minute ad. I hope Candidate Edwards keeps pushing for a witdrawal timeline because this catastophe has to be brought to a rapid end. If the president doesn't agree to a timeline, the funding shouldn't be provided for this road to nowhere.

It is quite clear after the GAO report that our poor and middle-class forces haven't provided for and can't provide for a political solution in Iraq. Despite 30,000 more combat and support troops, the Iraqi government isn't any closer than they were at pre-surge levels. However, the president is still desiring some type of legacy and insisting on more disappointment.

Now, we know we can't depend on a Republican minority that seems to be lost, but we can demand that the Democratic majority that was elected to end our involvement in Iraq act aggressively to bring our troops home.

It would be sad if the Democratic majority shared the same company as those during the Vietnam war who prosecuted a strategy that was known to have been a failed one. Yet, that is what will probably happen.

<>we can demand that the Democratic majority that was elected to end our involvement in Iraq act aggressively to bring our troops home.

<>Enough of them don't seem to care much about what the people who voted for them want, expect, or demand. 

And if pundits are to be believed, they want to be liberated from such people.  But it's unbelievable that politicians wouldn't understand that without votes they are nothing.

I just watched Moyers re-cap of 9/11.  Two things leaped out at me.

The morning of the attacks, it appeared that everything going down  was the result of total incompetence.  Neither bush,nor cheney nor rummy did anything at all, even after knowing the first plane went in.  bush said it was "some bad pilot." rummy wasn't even informed.  Watch closely bush's face after being told we were under attack.  Besides doing nothing, his look was *Ah finally, now we can move ahead.* He looked,  to me, neither shocked nor surprised.

So... it looked like major incompetence...or a laissez faire attitude.

Iraq, at first, also looked like major incompetence. 

These people are masters at projecting innocence and incompetence.

The official story is that the threat never made it up the chain of command.  Gosh, just like Abu Ghraib, Gitmo and where oh where is OBL.  Do bush and cheney really look like men who don't have control over things that go on that pertain to power, drugs, money and oil? 9/11 gave them all of that in spades.

That's my take. 

In all fairness, whistleblowers in the present tense get fired, retired, discredited.  People are afraid to speak out.  The woman translator has been gagged and she has a lot to say about everything.

3780

One of the most rewarding things about working for Mother Jones magazine is when you get to see one of our articles make a difference in the legal system. Yesterday the Boston Globe reported that our current issue's cover story "School of Shock," which documents how the Judge Rotenberg Center (JRC) uses electric shock to punish its students, "has reignited efforts to pass legislation limiting the facility's use of skin shock and aversive therapy."

Massachusetts state senator Brian A. Joyce, whom we interviewed for the story, has circulated a copy of the piece to every state legislator and is working to push up hearings, originally scheduled for January 2008, on existing legislation that would curb the use of the skin shock device and create a regulatory commission. And as we blogged last month, the Chancellor for D.C. schools opened an investigation into the JRC's use of electric shock.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2007/09/5461_aftershocks_of.html 

In all fairness, whistleblowers in the present tense get fired, retired, discredited. 

"I find it curious that physical courage is so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -- Mark Twain 

People are afraid to speak out.

Until a six figure book deal imparts courage. 

Good morning, everybody

Looks like a lot of people had a night on the town.  I've avoided going out on Friday nights for years.  One lives longer that way.  

Anyway, that little piece on MoveOn has got it wrong.  MoveOn has been around since the impeachment of Clinton.  Their point was that the country should be satisfied with a censure and move on to more important things.

When the Marines start paying off the tribal members in Al Anbar who used to shoot at them and plant IEDs, then there's a betrayal.  And then, of course, training Iraqi police to snitch on their neighbors who resist the occupation is also promoting betrayal.  I don't know what collaborating with the enemy is but treason.  Just because an enemy's telling you that its bombing your cities because it loves you doesn't make him not your enemy. 

History has revealed that the firebombing of Dresden was entirely without military purpose or advantage.  I have no personal opinion on it, but it strikes me that achieving the same results over four years in Iraq is a lot worse than doing it over a couple of weeks.  Of course, I felt the same about the piecemeal destruction of the South Bronx. 

34.  Physical courage is driven by adrenaline.  People act without thinking.  Thinking about the consequences of one's actions makes one hesitate.

I'm too busy to blog much, but wanted to make the comment that this past week was a very good one for Democratic Party prospects next fall because it is certain now that the Republicans have nationalized another election around staying the course in Iraq.

Any of our candidates will beat any of theirs.

Gore/Boxer

Any of our candidates will beat any of theirs.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Phil,

Sounds rather cocky or too confident for my tastes old boy.  You are forgeting several random elements.....................one being another terro attack on this countries soil........................

Judging by the way moat Tom, Dick and Harrys reacted to 911 and the panic thereafter and politely all got in line behind their Fuhrer, Id say yor parties candidate stands a 50/50 chance at best...............right now anyway.

Id proceed this elction with cautious optimism.....................OBL may turn up all of a sudden as well..................maybe some special forces contingent will get him after being tipped off again by some afghan puling an ox cart (and theyll get all the glory again)..........................

These are only for starters.........................and another thing............the American public. That speaks for itself with regards to voting wisdom.....................

ECONOMIC NEWS IS BAD AND GETTING WORSE

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney09152007.html

The days of the dollar as the world’s “reserve currency” may be drawing to a close. In August, foreign central banks and governments dumped a whopping 3.8 per cent of their holdings of US debt. Rising unemployment and the ongoing housing slump have triggered fears of a recession sending wary foreign investors running for the exits. China, Japan and Taiwan have been leading the sell off which has caused the steepest decline since 1992.

Of course, when things seem too good to last---they usually don’t. The economy is contracting; credit is getting tighter, and the stock market is flailing about aimlessly. As capital flight accelerates; interest rates in the US will rise, unemployment will mushroom, and the dollar will fall. It can’t be avoided. American markets and consumers will be compelled to curb their appetite for cheap foreign credit.

Maybe the charade could have carried on a bit longer if not for the belligerent Bush foreign policy that has alienated friends and foes alike. But, then, maybe not. After all, the Fed’s loose monetary policies added to Bush’s extravagant spending---$3 trillion added to the National Debt in just 6 years--- doomed the country from the beginning. Deficit spending has been the central organizing principle from day 1. Now comes the hangover. Federal Reserve chairman Bernanke is expected to drop the Fed funds rate on September 18. The move will provide more “easy credit-crack” for the addicts on Wall Street but it could also trigger a run on the dollar. That’s what keeps the Fed chief up at night.

 As the economic calamity unfolds, we can expect to see the usual parade of lacquer-haired phonies on the Business Channel singing the praises of “free markets”.  The problems we’re now facing should have been easy to spot for anyone willing to look beyond the empty rhetoric of the TV Pollyannas or their cheerleading co-conspirators at the White House.

There are no quick-fixes or “silver bullets” as Bush likes to say. It’ll take years to dig our way out of this mess. In the meantime, there’s little to look forward to except the steady weakening of the dollar, the persistent decline in housing and the looming police-state apparatus that’s supposed to keep us in line while the soup kitchens open.

38.  There was, in fact, no good reason to change horses in mid-stream in 2004.  With a Republican majority in the House and Senate there was nothing that a Democratic president could have changed in the course that had been decided on by the Pentagon.  Kerry mentioned "no permanent bases" once and then dropped the matter, perhaps for the simple reason that that part of the plan is classified information.

Also, the pattern of using U.S. military assets to "support" and "promote" our (commercial, industrial, financial) national interests has become entrenched.  It is a new colonialism which trades on the ability to invade and/or destroy recalcitrant nations instead of actually plotting an occupation of territory that's attractive for one reason or another.

Colonization is in the end self-defeating for the simple reason that coerced humans aren't sufficiently productive to sustain their rulers, themselves and the next generation.  When it's the next generation that's not adequately sustained and educated, the colonial territory is soon not worth having.  We've seen that all over Africa.  If you look hard, you can see it in North America.  Keeping a significant percentage of the population confined in prisons, schools and urban ghettos is not a recipe for national success. 

These people have some interesting things to say.

http://www.drgi.com/globalpowerbarometer.html 

aol is not allowing users to access certain sites. It will not allow me to get to bushflash and other sites. Good luck and good nite.

Mike

The American people are fed up with a war with no defined end point; and are smarter than you think.

Republicans in the Senate have about a month to break with their President or their vote on the next supplemental will haunt them to their political graves. I look for us to pick up six more seats.

The good news. "Paygo the supplemental" is alive and well and part of the reason for my optimism. The war funding has been detached from the defense appropriation.

FROM LAST THREAD

94. Sitka

========
I don't think Democrats got elected because people EXPECTED them to end the occupation, per se, with a sheer majority in Congress if Bush was unwilling. I think voters did vote for changing direction, though, that is, as a start towards ending the Bush's strategy, but did not necessarily expect Democrats make it happen, and it was a statement for some.

I think Democrats have been getting better on many other issues besides the "war on terror." There were a number of other reasons Democrats gained seats. I don't believe Iraq was the only issue.

A change in direction for Iraq mostly helped Democrats. A lot of voters in swing States, where we won, might have been in favor of the original invasion and occupation, but thought Bush was a total blunder in executing it, and getting out would be the best way of cutting the losses, or maybe they thought the Democratic challenge would provide Bush with some discipline.

These are all my opinions and don't base them on any specific references.

39.  The problem with economic news getting bad is that there are two economies.  There's the virtual economy where people play with papers and numbers and gamble that the numbers will rise or fall to give them a paper profit; and then there's the real economy where real things are made, grown, exchanged and consumed to keep us all going. 

We would like to assume that the virtual economy is simply a mirror reflection of the real world, but that's not the case.  Because the real world is extraordinarily changeable, economists have come up with models of how it all should work and then they manipulate the virtual economy to make it fit the model.  After a while, as the real economy changes in one direction or other and the virtual one, a figment of the imagination in the first place, becomes ever more disconnected, the data being touted becomes increasingly worthless.

I think that accounts for why some negative predictions in the last couple of decades haven't been borne out.  Unfortunately, that track record seems to have convinced some people that the old social/economic verities don't matter.  Things like honesty, prudence, fore-sight, quality, timeliness, etc.

Yes, I know these are moral characteristics, but that's how humans govern their behavior--well established patterns that create a reliable and sustainable social network. There's a difference between asserting that either the individual or the social order is more important and recognizing that society, if it is to survive, has to be organized so as to make the welfare of the individual its highest priority.  That's because an individual that's well cared for will form a commitment to the society and want to give something back, but a society that aims to extract as much as it can from each individual for the supposed benefit of the whole will eventually fail.

You know, we used to think that the populations that created the "high" cultures of meso-america (whose ruins we are still finding) were wiped out either by warfare or some natural disaster.  But, we now know that their descendants are still surviving.  It's just the culture, the civilized behavior, that disappeared.  The humans simply reverted to the predator and scavenger mode, instead of creating and trading the resources they need to survive.  The life of the predator is brutish and short, but he does live and reproduce. 

Sitka
Sat, 09/15/07
12:53 am

Alan Greenspan in his new memoir is telling the Republicans exactly what he thinks of them.

It's revolting how political hacks like him and Sen. Warner and Colin Powell find the courage to speak truth only after they have nothing to lose.

>

So true, and it needs to be repeated repeated repeated 

It's just the culture, the civilized behavior, that disappeared. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Spain had just driven the last muslims to Africa and were on a roll spreading the cross with a sword. Global predatory trade linked to religion is an old tale.

44

========
I don't think Democrats got elected because people EXPECTED them to end the occupation, per se, with a sheer majority in Congress if Bush was unwilling. I think voters did vote for changing direction, though, that is, as a start towards ending the Bush's strategy, but did not necessarily expect Democrats make it happen, and it was a statement for some.

AMERICANS DON'T WANT A "CHANGE OF DIRECTION"

THEY WANT OUT--STARTING YESTERDAY.

THAT WAS THE DEMOCRATS' MANDATE, AND THEY'VE FAILED!!

FREEZE WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 9 AM CDT THIS MORNING

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They weren't kidding. The growing season has just ended with record lows here.

Dear MoveOn member,

President Bush told us last night that he plans on keeping 130,000 troops in Iraq indefinitely—no end in sight.

Bush's strategy? Distract from that grim proposal by making a big deal out of the 30,000 "surge" troops that are returning next summer—despite the fact that they were coming home anyway because the military is stretched so thin. But if he can convince the public and the media that his plan is a "withdrawal," Congress won't be able to pass real legislation to end this reckless war.

We've put together a new ad that calls Bush's bluff and tells Congress that his plan isn't going to cut it. We want to rush it onto TV Monday. But to do that, we need your support. Can you chip in $25 to get it on the air? Click below to contribute and watch the ad.

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/

If you're wondering where the president got the idea of trying to frame his plan as a "withdrawal," you don't need to look any further than Republican activist, Grover Norquist. He told Bush back in July, "The one-paragraph explanation of what we're doing in Iraq has to have the word 'leaving' in there."1 Apparently, Bush took his advice.

1. Conservatives call for Bush to emphasize 'leaving Iraq', The Hill, July 27, 2007
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2971&id=11252-4621662-krLG2u&t=4

We've lost close to 4,000 American troops in this war. We've poured half a trillion dollars into it. Every day we turn on the news and we hear about more devastation in Iraq. We need Congress to start bringing our troops home this fall.

Thanks for all you do,

–Nita, Marika, Adam, Eli and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team
  Friday, September 14th, 2007

With the freeze so early one might be tempted to run out and buy futures, but the crop size has been set and with wheat at all time record highs, that would entail more risk than betting on the Feds cutting interest a half point.

the high prices do add a nickel to the grain in a box of Wheaties so look for a dollar hike

John Edwards has led the way when it come to combating Patraeus'
testimony. He has said, "No Timeline, No Funding. No Excuses."

True.  That's what he's said.  However, it's Chris Dodd who's actually introduced the implementing legislation.

One of my concerns about having legislators move over into the executive is that they seem to think that the role of the executive is to direct the legislature as to what laws he/she wants them to produce and that (this is even more worrisome) that's all it takes.  Just pass a law, put pen to paper, and be done with it.  To a large extent, except for the dropping of munitions on Iraq, that's been the practice of the Bush/Cheney administration.

Chris Dodd seems to be motivated by two concerns.  One is his perception (accurate, I would say) that the U.S. has really lost its moral compass, as exemplified by the wholesale rejection of constitutionally directed government, and the other is his frustration at having so many years of legislative effort go for naught.  To a certain extent, Bill Clinton's term was not a major difference from what had gone before during Reagan/Bush and the growing economy was largely an illusion, created by the fact that a much larger percentage of the population was getting paid for labor that had previously been contributed (in perhaps larger quantity and quality) for free.  It wasn't just women who used to managed households for no money who were now getting paid for packaging foods in plants and cooking in restaurants; it was also teenagers who were getting paid to flip burgers, instead of learning a trade as an apprentice or getting some other practical education--like learning foreign languages.  We have years of schooling at both ends and more responsibilities, as well, but the population isn't nearly as expert in knowing how to do things.

I'm not implying that the so-called "service economy" is bad or that it's bad for people to be paid for their contribution (it certainly makes it easier to calculate) but, contrary to our expectation that people who get paid do better and more work than those who don't, the quality of products and services has decreased across the board.  It may just be that the "profit motive" meme is to blame.  Since profit seems to be tied to quantity, rather than quality, more worthless stuff seems to be what we should have expected.  And some of the stuff people have been producing is just plain useless--most advertising and packaging, for example.  Yes, the latter employ artistic talents.  But, couldn't we just employ them in the arts, without having them produce junk? 

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/gonzales-farewell/ 

51.  It's a good ad.  And the truth.  But, I'd like us to move ahead and be more down to earth by calling for the bases to be dismantled.  As long as the bases are up and running, the troops that man them need to be "protected" from being shelled or over-run in their "secure" locations.

You know, it's like taking down the circus tents when the performers get ready to move to their next location.

STRIKE THE TENTS AND MOVE OUT 

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/14/gonzales-farewell/

Yes Congressman, I should know,  Sen Craig certainly does require a wide stance.

55.

BRADBURY: As a result of the department’s efforts under this Attorney General, hundreds of innocent human beings have been freed from an unimagineable hell on Earth.

Indeed, they have been dispatched to their own particular heaven, purgatory or hell. 

27.


Sitka
Sat, 09/15/07
12:53 am



Alan Greenspan in his new memoir is telling the Republicans exactly what he thinks of them.

It's revolting how political hacks like him and Sen. Warner and Colin Powell find the courage to speak truth only after they have nothing to lose.

--------->>>oh, I know, it's that lack of accountability thing they have down. Heck it's another Bush trait.

Michelle Malkin: UNCUT

Michelle Malkin: UNCUT


 

49. Huron John

AMERICANS DON'T WANT A "CHANGE OF DIRECTION"
THEY WANT OUT--STARTING YESTERDAY.
THAT WAS THE DEMOCRATS' MANDATE, AND THEY'VE FAILED!!
=================

Calm down, John. Different people vote for different reasons with different expectations.

I don't mean to be negative, or deprecatory, but we don't need to be illusionary either about how much power we have in Congress either at this point.

There is a mandate. Most American people want it all (not just end the war,) and most think that it is possible to do it all:

1.Bring the troops home;
2.have peace in stability in Iraq;
3.defeat Al Qaeda;
4.have peace in stability in the region; make American safer.

They don't think Bush is doing a good job on any or all of these points and more and more voters think Democrats can do better.

They also think Democrats may be better on trade, health care, the economy, taxes, education, corruption, etc. It is not just the war people voted on.

make America safer is #5.

Gerkraldo sucks for $$$

GERALDO RIVERA: I said that I would spit on her if I saw her, she called me a fool and a liar. I totally apologize for that, it was ungentlemanly, it was an ungallant thing to say. Not like me, I'm not a spitter. And I completely apologize to Michell Malkin.

O'REILLY: --Why did you say it?

RIVERA: I just, you're so filled with emotion. Someone calls you a liar and a fool, you want to strike back at them.[...]

I'm not a spitter s/b swallows

we don't need to be illusionary either about how much power we have in Congress either at this point.

41 VOTES IN THE SENATE WILL KILL THE FUNDING.

Democrats have the power. Theyre just afraid to use it. Why, I don't know.

ttfn

Thank you for putting a link to a post questioning the government's official story of 9/11. Most of the mainstream press will not touch that subject.

Seashell: My take is that the whole "incompetence" is something that the Bush administration wants you to believe. I've said this many times -- every time somebody points out how "dumb" or "incompetent" Bush is, that gives everybody else in the Administration - Cheney, especially, who is anything *but* incompetent -- license to move in the shadows.

Gee, I didn't know the Toronto Film Festival was going on now,.  Too pre-occupied with this house thing.

Many folks stopping the the ROOTS store for natural and green products. Stephen Dorf looks gooood.

oops, the were having a sale on their leather laptop bag, but it sold out.

You can look at other stuff.

http://www.roots.com/index.php?/usa/content/blogsection/11/251/lang,en/ 

23.

Linda*in*SFNM

The grassroots of the Democratic Party rule!


37.

Phil Specht

Gore/Boxer


Very nice!

71 Susan, yes! :)

I say, it sounds more like the DLC losing their power putting out those stupid talking points that the Dems will split with MoveOn. Heck, I was splitting with them when they were cozying up to the Blue Dogs and their Bills.

You know, they like playing like Republicans, use the same tactics and talking points. Fear and loathing in DC. Put out their projecting talking points, ie, say the lie so many times for the other guy to start believing. The small (d)emocrats do seem to fall for it so many times, but then again, it shouldn't be a surprise, becuase they ARE (d).

new thread

66. Huron John

41 VOTES IN THE SENATE WILL KILL THE FUNDING.
=============

Isn't the defense fund is half a trillion? There is plenty of money for whatever Bush wants to do. Stopping the government by stalmating Bush won't end what he's doing. It will just short the troops of equipment and/or siphon the money from discretionary programs, some dear to Democrats.

Putting that responsibility on Democrats just takes that much more heat off Bush's responsibility for this quagmire. It is his alone, and Democrats cannot change that, not without 2/3 majority.

Gore/Boxer would be nice, and IF Gore announces in time to not disenfranchise previous state primary votes, i'll rethink supporting Kucinch all the way to the convention.
The clock is ticking away tho.
Maybe the best way to get Al to focus his consideration of running is for us all to get behind the trailing peace candidate. My thinking is that if there is as big of a 'sit the election out' crowd on the Dem side the possibility of another ReThug pResident will factor in for him.
Will i be working my arse off for one of the newly converted warhawks if they are the nominee? nope

The Democratic leadership is setting the Iraq funding aside in a supplemental, Fred. There will be a clean vote on the war. Once again if Bush uses a veto it will only take 41 votes to keep it from coming back to the floor and the de-funding will be Bush's alone. Biden can keep his cool because funding for the MRAPs will be in the other section.

50.

Phil Specht
Sat, 09/15/07
8:52 am
Phil I can't believe you have frost - we still have 90 degrees and A/C. But my dog and cat DO seem to be bulking up their coats -- I've heard that's a sign of a cold winter to come.

Paine I can't click on Michelle Malkin - she does ugly things to my blood pressure.

I agree that we need some patriots with some moral courage and there are no excuses. Maybe I'll get out there with my OUT NOW sign again. Greenspan is descpicable and so is his skinny little wife (I just threw that in to be mean.)

They showed a pix on CSPAN this morning and panned very slowly from left to right to emphasize the length of the line in front of Northern Rock Bank - the one that had to get bailed out in London. This isn't the pix but it is similar:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070915/480/7...

FRED from OR
Sat, 09/15/07
10:36 am

Soooo, the war-criminal pResident should not be stopped by supposedly patriotic legislators, sworn to duty, because they fear he'll use unmandated treasury funds?

Heck, which non-existent money do you mean? or if they are there wouldn't it be a good investment to use them for a withdrawal. The ending of supplemantals, which come with large interest charges, is a money saver - not to mention lives and moral integrity.
Your evaluation is way off. Now accuse me of horrid defamation, then break out the vulgarity.

break out the vulgarity

~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is all in Fred's past.

Where is this new thread Linda?

Since Massachusetts has a Presidential primary election, the first step for Draft Gore Massachusetts is to get his name placed on the ballot. This effort will begin in earnest on September 18, the start of the official period for collecting qualifying signatures, and will continue until he either is placed on the primary ballot or declares that he will not be a candidate.

Go, Massachusetts!

Then maybe he'll research the facts supporting his statement instead. For someone dedicated to 24/7 presence here there seems to be little research beyond one or two sources.

Deanac, sorry, I was just going to post that it didn't get promoted to the front.  It seems the dates got reversed.  Maybe it will get changed, but I guess continue using this one until then.

Suzanne Harris
Sat, 09/15/07
10:54 am

Time is getting short for all that. Love Al as i do, i'm not moving mountains with any factor of hesitation on his part a reality. Right now that is the case. Also Howard Dean won't be a candidate in 2008.
Reality is a major factor in where one should direct their energy.

Gore supporters in Iowa can simply caucus as uncommitted and elect National delegates later.

Here:

 Al Gore, Citizen Activism and the Strong Push to Draft Al Gore


The Draft Al Gore movement has swung in to high gear. United with the common goal to draft Al Gore, they have joined forces to create America For Gore. Today we start a campaign for the citizens to add their 2 cents on who and why we know we want and need, Al Gore, to seek the Presidency of the United States and you too can join.

"The basic idea of the campaign is so simple that a caveman could do it. To convince Gore to step into the race, we are asking all Gore supports to mail him two pennies, together with a note indicating real support will be provided if he accepts the challenge and runs for president. We feel that the mountain of pennies will be a constant reminder to Mr. Gore that America needs and wants him to run."

"It seems quite clear that Al Gore has not yet made up his mind about his role in the 2008 collections. He and his staff are well aware of our efforts and initiatives and have done absolutely nothing to discourage us, unlike 2004 when he asked that such actions stop. That's why it is very important that every Al Gore supporter act now to make sure that he is aware of their support. We are just asking you to take a moment from your day and wrap it up with two pennies and send it off to Gore's headquarters. The pennies should be sent, preferably in an envelope made of recycled paper, to Office of:

The Honorable Al Gore
2100 West End Avenue, Suite 620
Nashville, TN 37203

79.

Deaniac in GA

The new thread hasn't been promoted yet but it's posted.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22196...

Gore has to wait until after the Nobel Prize. "You (we) have the power." means he doesn't have to annouce yet. Most ballots do require the candidate themselves to file an affidavit with their personal signature at some point. Florida voters could see a lot of action for their second "official" date for electing National Delegates. 

Phil Specht
Sat, 09/15/07
10:42 am

I don't know how long the legislation would take, or how long the pResinut can let it sit on the desk but,

My daughter has been telling me about fellow students whose parent is back from desert training and now headed for Iraq. The story usually includes the child sobbing uncontrollably when subjects touch any around reminding them of the coming deployment.

I say do not pass GO, do not collect more heartbreak of children... Defund on purpose and take the credit for saving our childrens future.
I believe our children are the future... and they need their parents with them getting us there.
Stop the destruction of our future, stop this war now.

I don't think Democrats got elected because people EXPECTED them to end the occupation

The people who voted for Democrats didn't expect them to do as they promised and end the occupation? That has to be the mother of all excuses.

 Stopping the government by stalmating Bush won't end what he's doing. It will just short the troops of equipment and/or siphon the money from discretionary programs, some dear to Democrats.

Great Pentagon/White House talking points Fred. Is Biden actually saying this kind of crap too?

Phil Specht
Sat, 09/15/07
11:08 am

I respectfully disagree that those two examples of his possible routes to some delegates amount to anything a child could count on to save their family and/or future.

John Edwards has led the way when it come to combating Patraeus'
testimony. He has said, "No Timeline, No Funding. No Excuses."

In all things Iraq, Edwards has been a follower. First he followed the polls and Bush into Iraq. Now he follows the polls and the people out. 

Biden had started down that road, John, but Reid headed him off by separating out the funding for the war into a supplemental. I look for all of the candidates to vote for Levin or Reed language that includes the Webb Amendment attached to the big appropriation and let Bush stew in that juice while getting even toughter withdrawal language into the supplemental. Paygo then forces his hand as the only funding alternative for keeping the troops there.

 Now he follows the polls and the people out. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Democratic candidate that numbers himself amongst the people is a good thing.

I guess, before i am accused of taunting or needling by making logical and heart-felt argument, i'll go on finishing up work due at the end of this quarter, this coming week.

GO DENNIS GO!!
1 - 877 - 413 - 3664

The supreme leader of Iran has launched a scathing attack on United States President George W Bush.

Speaking at Friday prayers, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said he was sure President Bush would be tried in an international court for what had happened in Iraq.

It was a particularly tough message, accusing the US of invading Iraq partly to undermine Iran's Islamic system.

It follows Mr Bush's speech to the US on Thursday in which he criticised Iran's ambitions in the Middle East.

A Democratic candidate that numbers himself amongst the people is a good thing.

It all depends on which people. How do we know Edwards won't go back to the NeoCons once he gets our votes? 

Printable version

"I haven't left my home in two months," says Kulsoom, a medical student who lives in east Baghdad with her family.

Not to see friends or relatives, not to go shopping, not to go to college for the extra training she would like before the new academic year begins.

She has a lot of catching up to do. Kulsoom missed half her classes last year because of bombs, shootings and other threats which prevented either her or her teachers from reaching class.

Only a few family members ever go out, for daily essentials. Otherwise they stay at home, day after day.

Printable version

Long queues built up outside branches such as Kingston, Surrey, where some 250 people waited to take out money.

Experts insist that customers' money is safe, but banking sources suggest that on Friday alone clients pulled out £1bn - or 4-5% of retail deposits.

Which NeoCon said this in January 2007?

"Iran is serious about its threats,"

"Iran must know that the world won’t back down,"

......also discussed Syria's recent calls for peace with Israel, saying that "talk is cheap," and that Syria was not doing enough to prove it was serious.

........ also said that Syria has been a great source of destabilization in the area, from its support of Hizbullah and Hamas, to its relationship with Iran, and for this it should be held accountable.

........went so far as to suggest that Israel should even be made a member of NATO, saying it was only natural that the organization would seen to include Israel next.

.......went so far as to suggest that Israel should even be made a member of NATO,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

makes sense to me, bring more nations into the decision making before reckless pre-emptive attacks, while providing an iron-clad guarantee of survival

makes sense to me, bring more nations into the decision making before reckless pre-emptive attacks, while providing an iron-clad guarantee of survival

As if the US isn't already mired deeply enough in Middle Eastern BS and hated by more than enough muslims.

Think, Phil! Think! 

New Thread 

Yes, Phil, Mr. Gore does need to wait 'til after the Nobel Peace prize.

So we are on a countdown :)

Morning Folks,

Just finished reading George Packard's article on Iraq in the New Yorker.  I'll post an excerpt and then in the next post, the URL if you are interested.  He examines a variety of options and argues for a long term strategy in the sense that instead of saying out now or stay the course, how do we envision Iraq 5 or 10 years from now. What will be our role?  What part will Syria, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Israel and Palestine play?  What responsibilities do we have for what we've done, and what strategic value does Iraq play in the world scene and with respect to our interests.

I recommend everyone read it if we are going to talk about Iraq.  So much of our political life has been polarized into sound bytes, which doesn't serve us at all.

Watching Bill Moyers and the runup to 9/11, it did seem utterly incompetent to me.  Particularly painful was watching Rice equivocate before Congress.  It occurred to me that the right wing Republicans or whatever they are have been undermining this country since before Clinton.  By tying  him up with the Lewinsky scandal, and yes, he is a weak man, someone who wants to be loved by the crowds, Clinton didn't order a strike to get Osama Bin Laden when the CIA had located him.  It's these Republicans or whoever they are and call themselves who have been treasonous in undermining the troops, our security, our infrastructure, our body politic by polarizing, defaming, privatizing, colluding with corporatists both military and government.  While they say that Democrats are defeatist and don't support the troops, it is they who have broken the miliatary, allowed 9/11, privatized infrastructure and the military, destroyed our international reputation and clout, destroyed cooperation and diplomacy.  If there is a conspiracy, I have to say that Newt Gingrich and the Republican Right Wing have effected it.

 Well, here's the excerpt.  Hope it's not too long.  It's hard to tell when copying it.

Without extraordinary measures, it will be hard to maintain current troop levels past next summer. Photograph by Lucian Read.

An Iraqi whom I will call Ahmed lives in Saidiya, an area in south Baghdad where, in the nineteen-eighties, the regime of Saddam Hussein built large houses for well-connected Army officers, most of them Sunnis. After the American invasion, in 2003, Saidiya became a base of Sunni resistance, but since last year vicious sectarian fighting has divided its streets between Sunni and Shia, with front lines crisscrossing the district; the highway separating Saidiya from the Shiite area of Bayya, to the northwest, now marks an impassable boundary. “It’s just like the Great Wall of China,” Ahmed said, during a recent phone conversation. A graduate of Baghdad University, with a degree in English literature, he worked before the war as a news translator for Iraqi state television.

Saidiya has one of the highest rates of sectarian killings in the city. Eighty-four unidentified corpses were found there between mid-June and mid-July, according to Zeyad Kasim, a researcher at IraqSlogger.com, a news-gathering Web site. Ahmed said that the number actually represents an improvement—earlier this year, he saw bodies lying in the streets even more frequently. The U.S. military “surge” launched this spring, in which thirty thousand additional American forces arrived in Baghdad, has helped to stabilize Saidiya’s sectarian borders. The Americans don’t often patrol Ahmed’s neighborhood, but, when Iraqi Army forces call in air support, Apache attack helicopters can reach Saidiya within minutes.

Ahmed has little faith in the Iraqi Army itself. He said that the soldiers behave unprofessionally, don’t respect the chain of command, and seem more concerned with their salaries than with their responsibilities. “Ninety per cent of my neighborhood think the Iraqi Army is hopeless,” he said.

There is no functioning government in Saidiya. The power supply has dropped to less than two hours a day, and for a month Ahmed—a thirty-seven-year-old father of two who suffers from diabetes and a heart condition—could obtain water only from a hole that he dug in his back yard. His neighborhood is under the control of a Shiite militia claiming allegiance to Moqtada al-Sadr, the radical scion of a powerful clerical family, who has emerged as perhaps the most important political figure in Iraq. The militia employs the crippled and the poor to collect protection money, controls a black market for fuel, and forcibly recruits young men into its ranks as lookouts against the Americans. Its local “security” force consists of teen-agers brandishing AK-47s.

Ahmed, who has a Shiite father and a Sunni mother, considers himself a secular Shiite, and, in his view, the religious militias want to force people like him out of Baghdad. “Americans are the safe house for the whole situation in Iraq,” he said. “Once they say they are going to withdraw, the whole country will become a hell.” He went on, “I imagine that no Sunnis will be in Baghdad at all. Baghdad will be only for the Shiite man with the long beard and black imama—the turban. The Americans are representing the taboos, just like ‘Lord of the Flies.’ I imagine the Shiites will be just like that if the Americans have to withdraw. Who can fight will fight, who must leave will leave.” He added, “Those who are weak, who are trying to avoid the savagery, those who are at the edge of being eaten by the Shiite specifically—that will be the end point, that will be their doomsday. The plan, as we hear it, is to make Baghdad empty of Sunnis.”

• from the issue
• cartoon bank
• e-mail this

This week, Ryan Crocker, the U.S. Ambassador in Baghdad, and General David Petraeus, the commander of the multinational forces in Iraq, will give their assessment of the surge to Congress—an event that, in Washington, has taken on the aura of a make-or-break moment for the Administration’s policy. But their testimony is likely to be unremarkable. Administration officials, military officers, and members of Congress described their expectations of it in strikingly similar terms, and a few said that they could write it in advance: military progress, a political stalemate among Iraqis, more time needed.

The Petraeus-Crocker testimony is the kind of short-lived event on which the Administration has relied to shore up support for the war: the “Mission Accomplished” declaration, the deaths of Uday and Qusay Hussein, Saddam’s capture, the transfer of sovereignty, the three rounds of voting, the Plan for Victory, the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Every new milestone, however illusory, allows the Administration to avoid thinking ahead, to the years when the mistakes of Iraq will continue to haunt the U.S.

The media have largely followed the Administration’s myopic approach to the war, and there is likely to be intense coverage of the congressional testimony. But the inadequacy of the surge is already clear, if one honestly assesses the daily lives of Iraqis. Though the streets of Baghdad are marginally less lethal than they were during 2006, sixty thousand Iraqis a month continue to leave their homes, according to the International Organization for Migration, joining the two million who have become refugees and the two million others displaced inside Iraq. The militias, which have become less conspicuous as they wait out the surge, are nevertheless growing in strength, as they extend their control over neighborhoods like Ahmed’s. In the backstreets, the local markets, the university classrooms, and other realms beyond the reach of American observers or American troops, there is no rule of law, only the rule of the gun. The lives of most Iraqis are dominated by a complex array of militias and criminal gangs that are ruthlessly competing with one another, and whose motives for killing are more often economic or personal than religious or ideological. A recent report by the International Crisis Group urged the American and British governments to acknowledge that their “so-called Iraqi partners, far from building a new state, are tirelessly working to tear it down.”

Here's the URL

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/09/

17/070917fa_fact_packer 

Mr. Gore does need to wait 'til after the Nobel Peace prize.

If he's awarded it he'll need to wait a while so as not to appear to be exploiting it. Look for Gore in November. 

104.

Yes, Phil, Mr. Gore does need to wait 'til after the Nobel Peace prize.

Linda,

Is there a Nobel rule about this?

Thanks.

Is there a Nobel rule about this?

Surely not. But it wouldn't do for Gore to announce he's running and the next headline to be "Gore Doesn't Win Nobel Prize." 

By the same token, it wouldn't do for Gore to win and then step on his own accolades by the next headline being "Gore Wins Prize, Announces Candidacy."  It would open him up to the charge of exploitation.

November. 

Joan, I don't know that it is a written rule, especially considering so much is kept secret, including the nominees, unless the persons nominating CHOOSE to make it public, but there was concern already about 2 US Democratic politicians receiving an award so close to each other(Jimmy Carter) and that also means it's possible he may not win it for that reason. There's alot of folks on the Committee. And Mr. Gore made sure he didn't attend a big conference after his nomination was announced, in Sweden, as to not appear to try to "Infulence" votes. A couple of them went to another presentation he gave near by. They do award politicians on their independent achievements, but they are not political.

I just saw Wes Clark endorsed Hillary Clinton.

Amazing that these two fellow, Powell and Greenspan, are using the same pages from the REpublican playbook. ie, blame others and don't accept responsibility. These two cowards were ENABLERS, they not only didn't speak up when they had the chance and could have made a difference, they took steps to further these NeoCons agenda.

Now they want to absolve themselves of their guilt, but not really, because they blame the OTHERS. They are truly banking on time heals all memories, at least for Americans. Pathetic.

I remember 4 years ago when Alan Greenspan was continuing this NeoCon agenda and Governor Dean said it was time he step down. It didn't happen and he didn't change, he was their gift that kept on giving. And then of course, we remember how Greenspans wife, Andrea Mitchell, took to smearing Governor Dean when everyone started nailing the coffin shut from Iowa, before New Hampshire. I even remember how I wrote to NBC for her false claims and SHE RESPONDED TO ME DIRECTLY.

AND, now they're trying to make more money on their improper actions. Truly amazing.


Linda
inSFNM

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 07:22:11 -0600, Gerry Lykins wrote:

> Saturday~
>
> ****************round of articles about our domestic ‘issues’
>
> September 15, 2007
>

>
> GQ ICON: COLIN POWELL
>
>
> He was pushed aside in the run-up to war, but as he tells Walter
> Isaacson,
> he, too, bears some of the blame
>
>

>
>
> what a knack for stating the obvious….
>
>
> Greenspan Is Critical Of Bush in Memoir
>
> Former Fed Chairman Has Praise for Clinton
>
> By Bob
> Woodward

Well, LOL, my copying is no going well.

Not intended on repeats. sorry

Lets try that again.

Wesley Clark just endorsed Hillary Clinton.

"Just got off a conference call. Clark has endorsed Senator Clinton."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/15/...

Linda,

I hope I am wrong but I have always believed if Al was going to run he would annound by the end of /September without much consideration of whether he will receive what many others consider to be the world's greatest prize.

Joan* In*Florida
Sat, 09/15/07
12:48 pm

Word up I get is that Al won't announce - he'll be drafted.

I think the end of September is too early. And if Mr. Gore is now seeing the grassroots action and support as he himself states is so important to taking back our country, I'm sure it will take him some time to get things in order.

Maybe the later date is almost required.

Now, I'm going to excuse myself from the blog, as I have too much on my mind and it is deeply affecting my fingers as well.

ciao.


Please Mr. Gore.......not only does your country need you, so does the world. And you are the one that has the respect, can repair and move our world forward.

Superman wears Al Gore pajamas.

Till later, Linda.....we are collecting signatures on petitions in California until December 4th!

Suzanne, thank goodness we have til Jan 2 here....it's a large state and I need a lot of sigs. here.

really bye now :)

Happy Saturday a.m., all. 

Good for Hillary...I've always respected Clark.  One of the few people who could serve as either SecDef OR SecState and do it well. 

and in other endorsements.....looks like Zbigniew Brzezinski is endorsing Obama:

Someone who recognizes the deteriorating state of America's moral credibility in the world and the increasingly eroded national security portfolio of the county is Carter administration National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski.

Sending an important signal, Brzezinski has just endorsed Barack Obama's candidacy over Hillary Clinton's. Brzezinski is one of the greatest strategic minds alive today and does understand the need to make changes in policy today to generate different outcomes tomorrow.

Influential foreign affairs columnist David Ignatius anticipated the themes of Brzezinski's statement in an important Washington Post piece, "The Pragmatic Obama," earlier this week.

Hat tip:  Steve Clemons of The Washington Note. 

Clark was endorsed by Steve Howard Rutland Vt. His campaign was manage recently by.... oh I will not say.   Grassroots....yeah...Bye.

            MR. BRZEZINSKI: Well, surge, it may be making some progress in some suburbs of Baghdad, but I don’t think anyone claims that it marks the turning point in what is clearly a failure.  And the president’s speech itself was an admission of a colossal failure, a colossal failure.  Four-and-a-half years after his invasion of Iraq, he’s now saying that if we withdraw, Iraq ends up like Vietnam or even worse

            MR. HUNT:  Was the Vietnam analogy an inappropriate one or just an irrelevant one now? 

            MR. BRZEZINSKI:  I don’t think it’s entirely appropriate because in the case of Vietnam, we actually were out for two years before the South Vietnamese government collapsed.  But what is more troubling is an analogy between Vietnam and Iraq that is quite fundamental and it is that in both cases the United States was trying to wage a war on a part-time basis that for the people involved, the Vietnamese or the Iraqis, was fundamentally a colonial war. And to win that kind of a war, the power that is waging it has to wage it across the board: national mobilization, massive effort, enormous deployment of troops, and a brutal determination to prevail.  And neither then nor now does the American public favor that because the American public has common sense.

^from the recent interview.....I'm not so sure that I have faith anymore in the American public's common sense, though. 

thanks for the list, dennis.  i'm using it.

*************

m machete malkin: CUT, CUT, CUT

************

here's a belated shoutout to tabloid rudy about the ny times moveon.org ad:  kiss my sweet southern hemisphere. 

organizations are not monoliths.  neither is the military.  admiral fallon, chief of central command, had questions, to put it mildly, about gen petraeus' report.  if there's intra-military disagreement about the progress of this war, even in their proverbial cohesion, the moveon ad is not unexpected.  the tone is stark, but it speaks to a core military value.  it seems that you politicians who play at war do not know that.

btw, i'm a proud member of moveon.org...... i voted for john mccain in 2000...... i hold the dems' feet to the fire.  i am a citizen who loves my country.

            MR. BRZEZINSKI:  Well, first of all, it is a question: how do we get out?  I don’t advocate simply packing our bags and just clearing out.  I think we have to bite the bullet on two issues that the president has been unwilling to bite.  Namely, we have to go the Iraq leaders and say flatly and unambiguously, we intend to leave, let’s talk together – I emphasize together – about setting a date, and then simultaneously tell all of the neighbors of Iraq that we have decided to leave, that we are setting the date for departure with Iraqis, and that it is now in their interest to start consulting together with us about creating a framework of security upon our departure.  But that requires a decision to leave and the president, I think, wants to bequeath the war to his successor. 

            And as long that war goes, we’re going to be tied, handcuffed, in dealing with foreign affairs.  Our relations with China, with Russia are deteriorating.  We’re despised worldwide and therefore the president really is historically at fault here.

There's a really nasty story brewing about one Alexis Y. Debat who's been the ABC terrorism expert since about 2002.  After he published "interviews" with Obama and Greenspan and Kofi Anan, this fellow of the Nixon Center for Terrorism and National Security, has been exposed as a fraud.  He doesn't have the degrees he claimed and he didn't hold the position with the French Ministry of Defense he claimed and what I want to know is how did a French national get a green card to be a visiting lecturer at Middlebury College in 2001, etc? 

Debat has now resigned from the Nixon Center.  Who knows how he got hired?

I have put a few relevant articles up on Hannah, just in case everything gets scrubbed, as have his articles from the french journal in which the non-existent interview with Obama was published and any mention of him on the Nixon Center site.  The page headed "senior fellows" is blank.

The Debat fellow is the one who's been reporting on Al Qaeda activities in Pakistan, the planned invasion of Iran, etc.  But, he first showed up on 20/20 in that Brian Ross report on Odai Hussein's debauchery.  You remember, the guy who was in charge of the Olympic program.

So, do we have a French Judith Miller here?  Who knows what he is?  There was one article very critical of American intelligence failures.  LOL 

78. & 91.
John and Deaniac

================
It is easy to matra slogans and chants, and condemn those who disagree with you, but a lot harder to explain the nuts and bolts of how-to.

You should spend less time making school-yard taunts, and more time, explaining the nuts-and-bolts of legislative procedure, how the money can be cut off, without a political price, and how that will stop the Bush occupation.

I don't always agree with Phil, but at least today he posted some intelligent explanations, because I would be the first to admit I don't have all the answers, but I am not a cynic when it comes to listening, whether I like what they say or not.

".... i voted for john mccain in 2000....."

http://www.johnmccain.com/Blog/

...drop in there sometime.....some of the dullest minds in America. 

Somebody with nothing better to do, here's a reading list for you

http://www.comw.org/rma/fulltext/otherop.html 

Phil also pointed out that your vulgarity on this blog kept not one, but two Democratic presidential candidates from blogging here with us.  I caught up on the recent threads last evening.

Neither you, Fred, nor Sitka are getting over on Sheri Divers.  By her comments to both of you it is clear she sees it for what it is.....despite both of your best efforts to defend your behavior.

*** cChalfonte***

Now you're bickering -- as you have with FRED in the past.

I don't care about it one bit. Bicker away. But, Physician, heal yourself before you criticize others. 

Nope, just said what I had to say, Sitka.

Stopping the government by stalmating Bush won't end what he's doing. It will just short the troops of equipment and/or siphon the money from discretionary programs, some dear to Democrats.

False. I've posted this for FRED before. It happens to be illegal for a president to spend money appropriated for one purpose on another.

Article One, Section 9: 

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

Nope, just said what I had to say, Sitka

That's how we all feel. 

"That's how we all feel.   "

...and when the blog admin (Sheri) calls you both out for your behavior and reprints the rules for you...that should be a clue that you've crossed a line.  She called you both out, Sitka.  Nuff said.

Got to get on with the day, folks.  bbl.

BTW, I'd love to know what Zbigneiw thinks about the Biden plan. I'll see if I can find anything.

Ciao for now:) 

Phil, are you sure the paygo is really going to happen becuz if it does, this is wonderful news and will turn bushie into a slobbering idiot.

And now for something completely different.  Just read a post by Mike Rogers over at Huffpo relating to the fact that Condi Rice co-owns a home with another woman. I don't give a fig abut that, but it is interesting that the woman's name is Randy Bean. As Rogers so aptly put it, the house is "Rice and Bean's.

You can't make this stuff up ----

Lawyers representing terror suspects at the Guantanamo Bay Detainment Center have begged the U.S. government for over five-years to disclose evidence against their clients to no avail. Until now, that is. The Bush regime has released some of the so-called evidence, and it reads as though it came straight out of Rod Serling’s The Twilight Zone. It’s well... bizarre.

Two of the lawyers received letters from commanders at the U.S. Naval Base accusing their clients of [get this] wearing contraband underwear and Speedo swimming trunks that they claim have been illegally smuggled into the high-security compound.

This would be laughable if not for the serious implications for the two detainees. The U.S. prison’s staff judge advocate has now launched an official inquiry to discover who is behind the smuggling operation, and [wait for it] has named the detainees’ attorneys as the two prime suspects.

 It was less than a year ago that Republicans lost control of Congress, in part because Democrats made corruption a major campaign issue. Stevens is one of several senators with ethics problems, complicating an already challenging political landscape for Republicans in 2008.

..and when the blog admin (Sheri) calls you both out for your behavior and reprints the rules for you...that should be a clue that you've crossed a line.  She called you both out, Sitka.  Nuff said.

You're wrong. I wasn't called out. But perhaps you should be. Nuff said.

Iceland to withdraw  lone soldier out of Iraq Bush to Withdraw 30,000 Republicans from Public Restrooms Buzzflash.com : )

You're wrong. I wasn't called out. But perhaps you should be.

Now I remember. Cc is referring to the post of Sheri's where people agreed with me and not her -- that I had not crossed any line. 

Like I said, Cc, you have been a bickerer with FRED (and now me) yourself, and therefor have no credibility to lecture anyone else. 

BREAKING!

 Al Sadre just pulled all his Shi'ite followers out of the Iraqi government.   Now Maliki and the Shi'ites are a MINORITY in the government.

VERY interesting.  Let's let the Iraqi's handle it.   They do good. : )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHZjQq-snqM

Zbig summarizes Obama's speech/ gives four points on what to do in Iraq.   Zbig is at Obama's right hand.

1. make clear we are not staying long

2. set a date with Iraq for US withdrawal 

3. engage the region

4. a humanitarian program 

Zbig when asked how to handle Al Qaeda in Iraq

said, "AL Qaeda can be best dealt with by the Iraqis"

Al Sadre just pulled all his Shi'ite followers out of the Iraqi government.   Now Maliki and the Shi'ites are a MINORITY in the government.VERY interesting.  Let's let the Iraqi's handle it.

Sounds like democracy in action. You're right -- stay out of it. 

141. Thanks Sam, I needed a good laugh.

~~~~~

FREE DOWNLOAD OF ONE OF THE BEST OFFICE "SUITES" THERE IS IMO - FREE!

This suite has been out there for at least seven years, meant to take a away some of the Microsoft Office clout. I've been using it for over a month and it matches most anything my WordPerfect 12 has. It's maintained much like Wiki with technical input.

It's a great wordprocessor, can use docs from just about any other suite. Also has a nice database and drawing sections, nice support on or offline. I'm downloading an update right now.

Just thought maybe someone could use it -- the price is right -- $0.00. Read more about it at Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org

http://www.openoffice.org/

Howdy!

♥'s to all

Howdy!

HOOOOW-DEE!!

Howdy!

HOOOOW-DEE!!

Make that.......

HOOOW-DEEEEE!!! 

LOL - what a fine howd'ya do :-)

LOL - what a fine howd'ya do :-)

You and Minnie are about the only two people I know who are always cheerful.

She was probably a right-winger, though. 

Major internet withdrawal pains here, it's been a full week since getting online and that was for maybe 20 minutes. My back got jazzed up last Sunday afternoon so I've been moving slower than hoped in the unpacking but even with that, all's going well.

HEY!!! You're all invited for Thanksgiving dinner ~ really :-)

Just let me know if you're thinking of coming and how many places to add at the table. Puddle is coming up for sure and a couple other possibles... the more the merrier! (The nearest airport is Providence)
deanfestcookbook ~ at ~ gmail ~ dot ~ com

Is this the cool kids table? Did you guys see this on KOS? Does this mean Howard won??

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9...

Florida Democrats Backing Down on Primary
by Limelite

Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 12:44:00 PM PDT

The January 29 primary for Florida Democrats under threat by the national Democratic Party will not take place.

The Miami Herald reports today that

Florida Democrats appeared ready to declare the Jan. 29 presidential primary a nonbinding vote when it comes to picking the Democratic nominee for president.

Great news Annilow!

154. You too Thankful your T'giving celebration sounds like fun. I'm sure proud of Howard tho -- the man does not run from a fight does he?

Howard is numero uno for good reason :-)

T'giving is my favorite day of all... hope you'll join us!

I found my Newsweek in a stack and realized I hadn't read it today so I did. There were two interesting articles. One is about an oilman Oscar Wyatt going to trial with the UN Oil for Food scandal. Apparently the guy is (mostly) a Democrat and his lawyer may try to argue that "Wyatt's dealings with Baghdad were part of an effort to avert a war with Iraq, and that now he is the target of a political vendetta by the Bush White House."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20657196/sit...

From the NAMES Project...

2007 marks the 20th anniversary of the founding of The AIDS Memorial Quilt and to honor this important occasion we are asking our friends around the country to join us in thinking BIG. We have set a very ambitious goal of getting every block, every panel of the 54-ton AIDS Memorial Quilt out on display for World AIDS Day 2007. With 47,000 panels sewn into almost 6,000 12 foot by 12 foot blocks, this is a huge undertaking but with your help, we can blanket the country with love, understanding, and compassion, and we can save lives.

In the past, we have made history by displaying the entire Quilt in our nation's capital, Washington, D.C. This year we want to send The Quilt not to one venue or to one community, but to hundreds, even thousands of communities across the country. It is not enough to wait for others to come to us, to travel to us, we have to come to you and with your help we can.

Hosting The Quilt at your school is a way you can make a real difference.

A recent study found that after visiting a Quilt display 76% of students felt The Quilt made them consider their own risk for HIV infection and nearly 90% of students said they would be more likely to protect themselves.

Your college can host a substantial display of The AIDS Memorial Quilt -- 25 12 x 12 foot sections -- for as little as $2,500 plus shipping costs. A display of this size will include more than 200 individual 3 x 6-foot panels that each tells a story of life cut short by AIDS.

[...]

The deadline for World AIDS Day applications is September 29, 2007 so please get started today.

www.aidsquilt.org

Belated Happy Birthdays to Toscha (poemlessgirl) and Page in Amsterdam ~ 9/12

Early Happy Birthday's to Pat in CO and Eddie in ME ~ tomorrow, 9/16

Linda in SFNM.....

Help!!! Just saw on Daily Kos that Wesley Clark has endorsed Hillary. Some speculation there of VP. Does that sound to you that the "fix" is complete now? He's done Clinton's bidding since "03 when in his words he entered the race to take out Howard.
Tell the draft Gore people to speed up a bit. This is definitely the last chance.
Hadn't been to Dailykos in a while and was surprised to see a lot of Hillary support.

The other interesting article in the almost week old Newsweek I read today is about Patreaus (whose name it is beyond me to spell). Anyway, it is about the braintrust he has around him -- apparently all of them have PhDs. The article makes you want to root for them, like maybe they are actually getting somewhere and maybe they are responsible for the progress in Anbar. There were two things I noted -- one is the article mentions both American Enterprise Institute and the Council on Foreign Relations (rightist flaggies?). The other notable is they say the braintrust works 14 hours a day but every day at 9 pm "someone would turn on a recording ot the 'Chicken Dance' and people would throw all kinds of things into the air..." then go back to work at 9:15.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20657191/sit...

It's definitely getting late for a Gore entry into the field, one can still hope for a bit... The HC campaign is higly organized and knows the ropes, that may be what does it :( No real surprise Wes would endorse Hillary, VP speculation is interesting.
~ ~ ~~

Paine, lunch Tues.? Maybe a bit earlier as I need to get on the road afterwards.

162. Audrey I headline read KOS each day but hadn't noticed the Hill support you mention. Maybe I need to do more than look at the headlines.

My 2 cents to Gore is going out in the mail Monday.

hey seashell :-) It's hi & bye!

Time to go here... later audrey, Annilow, et.al.

♥'s to all

Kindness is free!

133. Sitka

False. I've posted this for FRED before. It happens to be illegal for a president to spend money appropriated for one purpose on another.

Article One, Section 9:

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
====================================

Well, I'm not a lawyer, and half of Congress and lots of the President's men are, so maybe you can explain the significant of this (apparently with regard to discretionaries, but not soldier's equipment) of provide a link to a legal explanation of how this relates to the funding cut-off attempts.

Cutting off funding for the troops safety equipment etc. is politically risky with these soldiers risking their lives every day for what they believe is the cause of freedom.

The biggest problem with funding is that we need override a veto, so there would be a standoff and the government would come to a standstill. A standoff during the Clinton administration had Congress taking the blame in polls, so it is at least a political gamble.

But whenever I suggest we start reaching across the aisle, you and the others start insinuating that we are collaborating with Republicans Neocons, which is false, because if they come over to our side, we are not joining them. They are joining us.

Is congress going to  do nothing about this?  The attack by Israel does not bode well.  I think we can surmise that Israel and the US are plotting some horror together...the bullies with the nukes....altho China and Russia might have something to say about this.

    Proxy War Could Soon Turn to Direct Conflict, Analysts Warn
    By Julian Borger and Ian Black
    The Guardian UK

    Saturday 15 September 2007

US strikes on Iran predicted as tension rises over arms smuggling and nuclear fears.

    The growing US focus on confronting Iran in a proxy war inside Iraq risks triggering a direct conflict in the next few months, regional analysts are warning.

    US-Iranian tensions have mounted significantly in the past few days, with heightened rhetoric on both sides and the US decision to establish a military base in Iraq less than five miles from the Iranian border to block the smuggling of Iranian arms to Shia militias.

    The involvement of a few hundred British troops in the anti-smuggling operation also raises the risk of their involvement in a cross-border clash.

    US officers have alleged that an advanced Iranian-made missile had been fired at an American base from a Shia area, which if confirmed would be a significant escalation in the "proxy war" referred to this week by General David Petraeus, the US commander in Iraq.

    "The proxy war that has been going on in Iraq may now cross the border. This is a very dangerous period," Patrick Cronin, the director of studies at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said.

    Iran's leaders have so far shown every sign of relishing the confrontation. The supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, declared yesterday that American policies had failed in the Middle East and warned: "I am certain that one day Bush and senior American officials will be tried in an international court for the tragedies they have created in Iraq."

    In such circumstances, last week's Israeli air strike against a mystery site in northern Syria has triggered speculation over its motives. Israel has been silent about the attack. Syria complained to the UN security council but gave few details. http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091507Z.shtml

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091507Z.shtml 

Also, like I say the occupation is not the only issue and I think that Biden and Pelosi did some very good horse-trading with the minimum wage, timber conpensation, and mine-resistant vehicles. These things a very important and was a rare opportunity to get minimum wage increase with this president.

9 billion gone missing  in Iraq and now this/

Widespread Accounting Failures Discovered at Pentagon
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091507E.shtml
The Associated Press reports that a review the news agency conducted has determined that the Defense Department and the Department of Homeland Security's "financial records are so disorganized and inconsistent that they have repeatedly earned 'disclaimer' opinions, meaning that they simply cannot be fully audited."

    The U.S. government has behaved as though these dead Iraqis were not even worth counting. In December 2005, President Bush casually mentioned "30,000, more or less" as the number of Iraqis killed in the war. The White House later said there were no official estimates of Iraqi deaths.

    We shouldn't be so cavalier. Based on all available evidence, it seems unreasonable to believe that fewer than 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed thus far. Many very serious scholars believe the total is much higher.

    As for the number of wounded and disabled Iraqis - men, women and children who have lost limbs, or been paralyzed or otherwise maimed in air, rocket and bomb attacks - no one has a real grasp of the size of the problem.

    "Just considering the number of the dead and the number of displaced, this is probably the biggest humanitarian crisis in the world," said James Paul, the executive director of Global Policy Forum, which recently compiled an extensive report on the war and occupation. "This is the biggest displacement of people in the Middle East in a very long time."

    The effect on children of the carnage, the dislocations and the deteriorating quality of daily life has been profound. Conditions in Iraq were dire for children even before the war. One in eight died before the age of 5, many from the effects of malnutrition, polluted water and unsanitary conditions.

    Now, more than four years after the invasion, huge numbers of Iraqi children are finding themselves orphaned, homeless, malnourished, and worse.

    According to Unicef, the U.N.'s children's agency: "Many children are separated from their families or on the streets, where they are extremely vulnerable to abuse and exploitation. Most children have experienced trauma but few receive the care and support they need to help them cope with so much chaos, anxiety and loss."

    These are just a few of the things you won't hear much about from the American officials in Washington who profess to care so deeply about the people of Iraq."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091507F.shtml 

Nor does our CM report on the children.  Certainly the average citizen must know this carnage is going on.  What does that say about ordinary Americans?  Is it possible they don't know, or do they know but then have a beer, eat chips and watch TV to drown out the guilt and shame of being part of this madness?  The 30 some percent still behind bush must be, like him,  spiritually insane.

Maybe this is a good new way to talk about bush and his crazed followers.  They are spiritually insane. 

there's an old video of pete seeger, singing 'bring them home" on EFFECT MEASURE. 

Annilow....

There seemed to be a marked change in the comments toward a more favorable attitude toward Hillary. It is so discouraging that there would be any support there.
I talked to a new neighbor the other day. In a few minutes the conversation turned toward the country's situation. She expressed how desperate she felt, and couldn't talk to her husband because he felt the same and would just tell her not to get him started. There is so much rage everywhere, makes me wonder what Bush will do to try to get us in line again.

other thread is up: http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/22196...

But whenever I suggest we start reaching across the aisle, you and the others start insinuating that we are collaborating with Republicans Neocons, which is false, because if they come over to our side, we are not joining them. They are joining us.

Republicans will not "come over to our side" since "our side" -- as in the "majority of Americans"  -- wants out of Iraq completly and immediately. All Republicans want is to appear as if they are giving Americans a little of what we want before the next election. "Reaching across the aisle" to them is just another form of capitulation to and collaboration with Bush and the NeoCon agenda.

The biggest problem with funding is that we need override a veto, so there would be a standoff and the government would come to a standstill.

False. Bush cannot veto a funding bill he doesn't get -- which what Democrats should do. Give him nothing until he agrees to sign whatever they give him. And the government won't shut down over -- just the occupation.

 A standoff during the Clinton administration had Congress taking the blame in polls, so it is at least a political gamble.

That was over Social Security, which a majority of American did not want cut. The majority were with Democrats. In this case a majority  are still with Democrats (or at least what Democrats claim) about ending the occupation. Only craven Democrats could possibly think it a "political gamble" to side with a majority of Americans against the most unpopular president in a generation.

These things a very important and was a rare opportunity to get minimum wage increase with this president. 

The minimum wage law was tacked onto the last mortgage Dems gave Bush for his occupation. If that's what passes for accomplishment these days it's no wonder this country is going down the pipes. 

Is congress going to  do nothing about this?  The attack by Israel does not bode well.

CONGRESS do something??? 

BWAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!! 

And Edwards wants to let Israel into NATO so that we'll be dragged into every one one of their squabbles.