A reminder of why our Democrats won't use the power of the purse to stop the war, even though it is their constitutional right.

Who's advising Congress not to use their constitutional power of the purse?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1385

Dean is still first

And I wish I could stay awake long enough to catch DFA radio live. Looks like a good program.

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs_cspan_wm....

Hagel is up and has revealed that 4 provinces in southern Iraq are "lost"

Hagel is up and has revealed that 4 provinces in southern Iraq are "lost"

When he finally figures out that the whole of Iraq is "lost" let us know. 

Feingold is up

Obama is up

Who is up now, Fred?

Obama.

I like that Obama brings up the whacky world which has these hearings on 9/11, 9/10, and 9/12.

Good hearings, today ...from what I've seen. 

I haven't seen any a&&#oles like Sen Orin Hatch, so far.

POLL

Is the United States safer today than it was before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks?

http://www.capitalnews.org/

26%  YES

74%  NO

for me

friday.                 fundraiser for john miller with jim webb in norfolk

sat.   breakfast with tim kaine fundraiser

sat. state central comm. meeting.

sat afternoon. - bbq at home of the warner's (john and his wife lisa ) in fredricksburg, va.

um I am the lone person on the totem pole here but fun too.

Webb is up again

Good going, linda b.  Wow!  You are an inspiration.  You really go for it!  Those are good Dems.  You're a good Dem.

I think this part is a repeat of the earlier hearings. I am hearing some of the same stuff.

Is the United States safer today than it was before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

paine,

Ever since the 1960s and especially under Reagan, when this country got more and more "involved" in the ME, regardless of the nations there and whatever reason.............retribution for our policies have been forthcoming.........................its an area of the globe I have always said stay away from.............let no natural resource, or no people  or land dictate what this country does or else trouble will find its way to these shores eventually..............witness 911

Anyone know how many of the 52 pre-invasion individuals from the "deck of cards"

have been captured?

And does anyone know where those from the deck  captured are, today

Anyone know how many of the 52 pre-invasion individuals from the "deck of cards"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Does it really matter? It was a childish ploy from an immature brat of a President........only the foolish played along....................

trouble will find its way

 ~~~ ~~~~~ ~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~ ~~~~~~~

mike,

it's a two way street.  No nation can avoid the troubles, unless we go back to some ideal olden day. 

........only the foolish played along....................

~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~ ~~~~~~~ ~

Where have they gone?

About 9/11 theories...

popular mechanics
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technolo...

computer simulations
http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/0209...

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/...

Betray us, Petraeus, good rhyme.

The Bushies were running all over town denouncing Move-on for suggesting that a General was lieing to us. Like that never happened before.

But their accusations were all just a cover. They weren't going to allow him to take an oath.
If it hadn't been for Ray McGovern telling it on the Thom Hartmann show after he shouted out at the hearing and was thrown out by the police, we might not have ever known.

Bad Move-on, Generals don't lie, nobody questions not taking the oath, media doesn't report it, not respectful. So easily manipulated.

We need to get a lot more assertive, not less.

Getting the troops out quick.
Unless they want to leave all their equipment behind - which represents a huge part of the military inventory and can swim a long way.

There is only one way out so each base will have to leave in a systematic order. The equipment has to be cleaned at only two wash stations.

I can't find where the estimate was a brigade per month can be returned. There is 20 brigades so it will take a while.

I started to feel a little bit sorry for Petraeus. Another promising career down the tubes. Then reality and anger sets in. He doesn't care that he is dooming a lot of people to their death. This should be a lessen..lie for Bush and you are doomed.

So what bright, eagle-eyed general will be taughted and discarded?
A lot more solders and Iraqis are going to have very bad days.

So, this is where George W Bush's decision making has brought us to today:

The Active Duty force is at the end of it's string.

If any forces are needed to maintain the level of force in Iraq in the spring and summer before our general election,

then those forces must come from the Reserve or National Guard.

IMHO this is short sighted self-serving decision making by the failed POTUS.

Betray us, Petraeus, good rhyme.

>

And that got the best of them and they got out ahead of themselves.  

  They should have had a different PR campaign as the hearing approached.

The rhyme implies that the author knows what has not happened.

General Petraeus or General Betray Us?

MoveOn was...premature.

Clinton up

Lets see...

No Al Qaeda in Iraq, but the mediocre son of an aristocrat invades.

Al Qaeda is in Pakistan, but the boy wonder watches from his privileged perch upon his inserted thumbs.

Move-on was merely anticipating what most of us were expecting. I don't always stick up for Move=on, too many tricks during Howard's campaign.

congress needs to feel some heat. They've ignored everything else so far. If what we're going to do is simply make polite and reasonable requests, we might as well sit back and enjoy the show, or not.

On the News Hour, Biden and Lugar. Biden said Petraeus was spinning. Even Lugar said he was trying to make a case for the most troops he could get.

Biden said that the great success in Anbar was a good example of how local control can stabilize things, and both thought that surge was not a factor in Anbar. The Sunnis have their own police force, and the U.S. forces helped negotiate economic help from the Shiite-dominated central government.

We knew when Betray Us was appointed, he would Betray Us.

Not rocket science. 

Move-on was merely anticipating what most of us were expecting.

<

I agree audrey.nc, but they blew it by bashing Patreaus before he came to the committee.  They were too early. 

Biden stressed that you cannot go from one neighborhood to another safely in Bagdhad, and that Ramali was supposed to be secure, but he had to leave by helicopter because the streets weren't safe to travel.

Lugar agreed that you need a federal system with local control for any kind of success in Iraq. I think he might be aligning with Biden on a political solution. Look forward to January. That's when the Iraq Parliament's constitutional law goes into effect to fulfill the Constitution's call for local control and a limited central government. If Maliki and the Shiites stonewall it, you may see Biden and friends swing into action, if not sooner.

We knew when Betray Us was appointed

<

We did, Seashell? 

I think we should have given him the benefit of a gentleman... (it would have served us better)... who served professionally in the Army and rose to the rank of four-star General.

The Senators did that, even as they heatedly debated the strategy he implements.

33. Imn2Paine

=============
betray us is a pawn - a crappy job but somebody's got to do it. You could see that many against the invasion conditioned their statements to say they didn't mean anything personal to him, evern thought they weren't buying it.

The Sunnis have their own police force

>

Yes, Fred; that is an example of how the United States might function (EG  State or Commonwealth Police)

I agree audrey.nc, but they blew it by bashing Patreaus before he came to the committee.  They were too early

They didn't "blow" anything by debunking Betrayus and the WH fabrication before his testimony.

If it made some DCDems squirm in their chairs a bit too, so much the better. 

33 & 35

Not much basic difference there.

They announced it ahead of the Committee and alerted everyone, and still nobody had the nerve to ask Petraeus to take an oath. He might be a general but he works for the "brat" and generals do what they're told, even the Committee knows that, but they just couldn't break out of the "respectful" behavior. so the Committee didn't protect us, they were duped by the fear of not acting proper.

made some DCDems squirm in their chairs a bit

>

OK, well it did heighten expectations and get every ones juices flowing.  It don't mind hearing about all the different angles for "getting there"

This should be a lessen..lie for Bush and you are doomed.

Bush has left a trail of broken bodies in the wake of his "career."  Whether it was his father's cronies who lost their shirts in his behalf in the oil gam to Colin Powell's fall from (undeserved) grace, being a tool of Bushboy is indeed costly.

"There is only one place in the U.S. government where you can knock heads together, and that's the White House"

~Former 9/11 Commission Chairman Lee Hamilton

couldn't break out of the "respectful" behavior. so the Committee didn't protect us, they were duped by the fear of not acting proper.

>

Not to be jerk, but I disagree.   What I saw tonight, which is all I've seen, the DEm Senators were contentious and forceful in advocating for ...people like you and me.

Think they have been too timid for self respect in the past, but not with Patreaus and the Ambassador.

42. Imn2Paine

============
I agree. The senators lost no political ground or force of argument by being polite and respectful. In fact, they will have gained more ground if their integrity will gain them more support for a 2/3 vote when it is needed.

11:01 thread is up now.   Neat conversation tonight. Looking forward to meeting Senator Biden, and others on Sunday.

Hi everyone,

It was sooo very telling ...

Republican Senator John Warner asked General Petraeus if the current strategy in Iraq "will make America safer."

Petraeus: "I believe that this is indeed the best course of action to achieve our objectives in Iraq."

Warner repeated: "Does that make America safer?"

Petraeus: "I don't know, actually."

After the pResident Traitor-in-Chief has been hypnotizing the American public, admittedly propogandizing intentionally, for years now this General can't even pull off a straight-faced lie.

The 'objectives' are clear as a bell, domination and oil. I feel he may be lying - knowing those objectives, or even the many other reasons for the attack and occupation of this soverign people, were not if fact going to ever make us safer.

As the oddest quirk to grace future history books, both George H. Walker Bush and Dick Cheney made the public case against invading Iraq long ago.

Will the history books have the chapter where the Congress came to the rescue of the Iraqi, the world, and our own society???
Will Howard Dean and his pose be part of that rescue???

The Democrats have the numbers to deny funding the continuation of this tragedy. There are billionaire supporters of the current pResident who can saddle to fund it longer up if that what is in anyones interest(as if that will happen).

Someone wrote about being concerned with 'cleaning' equipment a factor that slows a withdrawl. Yeah, bite me. Leave it for the Iraqi, they'll need it.

OUT NOW!!

They did not demand that Petraeus take an oath, which means we don't know if he was telling the truth, so what difference how they argued the case?

I'd like to suggest Chris Dodd for a DFA Radio interview. He could do both english and spanish.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/12/...